BLUE MUMDAYS

With 1 in 10 dads suffering after the birth of their baby, Elliott Rae of 'Music, Football, Fatherhood' talks about his PTSD, following the traumatic birth of his daughter. Elliott went on to found MFF (the "Dad's version of Mumsnet") to change the narrative on what it means to be a father. He has gone on to become one of the UK’s most prominent speakers on fatherhood, masculinity and mental health. Despite the serious subject matter, it was an incredibly inspiring, joyful and profound conversation. By chance, this episode was recorded on World Suicide Prevention Day, 2021.

*TRIGGER WARNING: BIRTH TRAUMA, SUICIDE RATES*

IN THIS EPISODE WE DISCUSS:

[00:40] Introduction to Elliott Rae

[02:11] The stigma of postnatal illness in fathers

[03:08] Elliott before fatherhood - from playing bass in a band to youth and D&I work

[05:55] The pregnancy and discovering his wife had Group B Strep

[09:00] The birth - from calm beginnings to concerns for their daughter

[11:50] Shock - like an outer body experience

[12:23] Elliott's dilemma - should he follow his daughter to intensive care or stay with his wife?

[12:51] Snapping out of his daze - "Fatherhood started there and then"

[13:39] Feelings of helplessness and not feeling prepared

[17:52] Further complications - the need for an emergency MRI scan

[21:03] Coming home from the hospital

[21:49] Elliott's wife diagnosed with Postnatal Anxiety

[24:22] Realising he needed help too

[25:01] Reliving events - how their daughter's severe wheat allergy triggered PTSD

[26:56] Not functioning at work - "I couldn't even say hello"

[28:20] Societal pressure - 'Boys don't cry'

[32:01] Writing about his experiences and getting diagnosed with PTSD

[34:13] 'Dad' the book

[37:29] Rethinking the role of fatherhood

[42:40] How to connect with Elliott and access support via MFF

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

1. New dads can suffer from postnatal depression too - the number of men who become depressed in the first year after becoming a dad is double that of the general population.  First time dads are particularly vulnerable. 1 in 10 dads-to-be will also become depressed during their partner’s pregnancy. (NCT)
2. Around 25% of women carry Group B Strep (GBS) bacteria during pregnancy, yet it is not routinely tested in the UK. You can find out more information here: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/group-b-strep/
3. It's helpful to prepare for the fact that your birth might not go according to plan.
4. Very sadly 3 out of 4 suicides are carried out by men - it is the leading cause of death of men under 50, so there is a clearly an urgent need for greater support for fathers.
5. http://musicfootballfatherhood.com/ is there to open up the conversation around fatherhood in a safe space.
6. You can keep up with Elliott and buy copies of MFF's book 'Dad' here: https://linktr.ee/musicfootballfatherhood
7. https://www.markwilliamsfmh.co.uk/ is a pioneer on paternal mental health and PND.

 If you enjoyed this episode, please share, rate and subscribe. It really does make the difference in helping others find it – which means helping more parents in need.

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Email: [email protected]

NEXT WEEK’S EPISODE:

In Episode 4 I’ll be talking to maternal mental health specialist Naomi Buffery, on her own experience of PND and how she's on a mission to empower other mums to beat anxiety and depression.

SUPPORT:

If you are struggling right now, please know that it’s okay to talk and reach out for help. 

YOU ARE NOT ALONE AND WILL NOT FEEL THIS WAY FOR EVER. 

We hope these support services are helpful (please note we do not check or monitor them individually).

Action on Postpartum Psychosis (APP)

Moderated Forum, click here to find out more.

Email: [email protected]

Tel: 020 3322 9900

Andy's Man Club

A non-judgemental talking group for men

https://andysmanclub.co.uk/club-information/clubs/

Email: [email protected]

Association of Postnatal Illness

Helpline: 10am – 2pm – 0207 386 0868

Email: [email protected]

Live chat online facility

Best Beginnings

Free NHS-accredited Baby Buddy app offering

evidence-based information and self-care tools to help parents during pregnancy

and early stages of parenting.

App users also have access to a confidential, text-based Crisis Messenger which provides

24/7 support for new and expectant parents who are feeling extremely anxious or overwhelmed.

Birth Trauma Association

Email: [email protected]

CALM

Contact CALM

on their national helpline: 0800 58 58 58 (5pm-midnight)

Cedar House Support Group

Email: [email protected] (Liz Wise)

Mobile: 07773 283556

DadsNet 

Offers support and knowledge through a community of dads on practical parenting and fatherhood.

Fathers Reaching Out

https://www.reachingoutpmh.co.uk/

Run by Mark Williams, campaigner, speaker and writer, offering support to dads.

Make Birth Better (Birth Trauma Support)

Maternal OCD

Peer support available, email [email protected] to

arrange

Muslim Women’s Network

Helpine: 0800 999 5786, open Mon-Fri 10am –

4pm with support offered in English, Urdu, Punjabi, Mirpuri, Putwari, Hindko,

and Bengali.

Email: [email protected]

Online chat: www.mwnhelpline.co.uk

Text: 07415 206 936

Netmums

Netmums offer peer support via their Maternal Mental Health Drop-In

Clinic.

NHS

Contact your local GP surgery.

Call the NHS on 111

or contact a local NHS urgent mental health helpline

If you are in crisis, visit Accident & Emergency at your nearest hospital.

PANDAS

Helpline open from 9am-8pm every day – 0843 2898 401

Email support available – [email protected]

Petals

Petals offers free-of-charge specialist counselling to anyone who has experienced pregnancy

or baby loss.

Web: petalscharity.org/counsellingcontact/

Email: [email protected]

Tel: 0300 688 0068

Samaritans

Tel: 116 123

(this is a free telephone number and will not appear on the phone bill)

Web: www.samaritans.org

Email: [email protected]

Shout

Text SHOUT to 85258 to start a confidential conversation with a trained Shout volunteer.

Twins Trust

Twinline is Twins Trust’s listening service for parents of twins, triplets and more. All

the calls are answered by volunteers who have multiples themselves.

Twinline is open Monday to Friday 10am to 1pm and from 7pm to 10pm. 0800 138 0509,

alternatively email [email protected].

Web: twinstrust.org/let-us-help/support/twinline.html

Tommy’s

Tommy’s has a team of in-house midwives who offer free support and information for women and their families at any stage of pregnancy and after the birth.

Web: www.tommys.org

Helpline: Tommy’s

helpline has been closed temporarily but their midwives are answering questions

via email, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.

Email: [email protected]

MUSIC by Joseph McDade

I speak to Emily Goldhill about what it was like to have her baby during the height of the Covid pandemic in 2020. From her husband not being able to attend scans, to a lack of support and activities during the early months, it heavily contributed to her developing postnatal depression. Becoming a new parent can be isolating and lonely at the best of the times, so I can't imagine how hard it must have felt during lockdown.

*Apologies for the audio quality on this episode, thanks in part to a dodgy Zoom connection and an overzealous Siamese cat called Brandy *

IN THIS EPISODE WE DISCUSS:

[00:00] Introduction to Emily Goldhill

[02:23] Navigating starting nursery and the return to work

[04:29] Emily's life before pregnancy

[05:40] Falling pregnant at the start of the Covid 19 pandemic

[07:32] Not being able to have her husband attend the scans

[09:26] How this affected Emily's mental health

[12:26] Early awareness of Covid - how it altered Emily's experience of being pregnant

[15:53] Expectations of what pregnancy 'should be like' vs. lived experience

[20:34] Giving birth in the pandemic. "My husband basically missed the birth" - not being listened to during labour

[26:45] The impact this had on Emily's postnatal illness

[28:57] Taking baby Ernie home for the first time

[30:41] More than the baby blues - "I can't do this"

[33:15] Emily's lack of a support network, due to the Pandemic

[35:10] How Covid 'cancelled' their first family Christmas

[36:44] Feelings of guilt and inadequacy - "they'd be better off without me"

[39:37] Trying to get support - talking therapy

[40:38] Not being seen as a pregnant mother due to Covid - lack of baby groups etc.

[42:25] The dangers of social media and Googling for new mums

[46:25] Starting to recover - feeling more in control

[47:35] Thinking about the return to work

[48:45] How being out and about again in the world more has helped

[50:58] How every baby and every mother is different - there is no set way of doing things.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

• Transitions like the start of nursery or the return to work can cause anxiety for any parent, so if you feel your symptoms being triggered by change, then you are not alone.
• How being pregnant during Covid can make you feel robbed of the experience you thought you might or should have had.
• It's good to have your partner or someone who can advocate for you at the birth, to ensure you feel listened to during your labour.
• The need to be 'seen' during your pregnancy - how this can impact on your experience of becoming a new mum.
• It can be dangerous to compare yourself to other mums and your approaches to motherhood - especially on social media.
• Beware of obsessive Googling - there is no right way of doing things (instead a lot of different approaches) and the conflicting information can be overwhelming.
• Every baby and every mother is different, and with time you'll set your own rhythm. Believe in yourself and your instincts. You will get to know your baby better than anyone.
• Edinburgh Postnatal Depression Scale

 If you enjoyed this episode, please share, rate and subscribe. It really does make the difference in helping others find it – which means helping more parents in need.

Follow us:

Instagram

Twitter

Email: [email protected]

NEXT WEEK’S EPISODE:

In Episode 3 I’ll be talking to Elliott Rae of 'Music, Football, Fatherhood'. Elliott founded MFF after suffering from PTSD following the traumatic birth of his daughter. He has subsequently become one of the UK’s most prominent speakers on fatherhood, masculinity and mental health, with the BBC describing MFF as the "Dad's version of Mumsnet".

SUPPORT:

If you are struggling right now, please know that it’s okay to talk and reach out for help. 

YOU ARE NOT ALONE AND WILL NOT FEEL THIS WAY FOR EVER. 

We hope these support services are helpful (please note we do not check or monitor them individually).

Action on Postpartum Psychosis (APP)

Moderated

Forum, click here to find out more.

Email: [email protected]

Tel: 020 3322 9900

Association of Postnatal Illness

Helpline: 10am – 2pm – 0207 386 0868

Email: [email protected]

Live chat online facility

Best Beginnings

Free NHS-accredited Baby Buddy app offering

evidence-based information and self-care tools to help parents during pregnancy

and early stages of parenting.

App users

also have access to a confidential, text-based Crisis Messenger which provides

24/7 support for new and expectant parents who are feeling extremely anxious or

overwhelmed.

Birth Trauma Association

Email: [email protected]

CALM

Contact CALM

on their national helpline: 0800 58 58 58 (5pm-midnight)

Cedar

House Support Group

Email: [email protected]

(Liz Wise)

Mobile: 07773 283556

Make Birth Better (Birth Trauma Support)

Maternal OCD

Peer support available, email [email protected] to

arrange

Muslim Women’s Network

Helpine: 0800 999 5786, open Mon-Fri 10am –

4pm with support offered in English, Urdu, Punjabi, Mirpuri, Putwari, Hindko,

and Bengali.

Email: [email protected]

Online chat: www.mwnhelpline.co.uk

Text: 07415 206 936

Netmums

Netmums offer

peer support via their Maternal Mental Health Drop-In

Clinic.

NHS

Contact your

local GP surgery.

Call the NHS

on 111

or contact a local NHS urgent mental health helpline

If you are in

crisis, visit Accident & Emergency at your nearest hospital.

PANDAS

Helpline open

from 9am-8pm every day – 0843 2898 401

Email support

available – [email protected]

Petals

Petals offers

free-of-charge specialist counselling to anyone who has experienced pregnancy

or baby loss.

Web: petalscharity.org/counsellingcontact/

Email: [email protected]

Tel: 0300 688 0068

Samaritans

Tel: 116 123

(this is a free telephone number and will not appear on the phone bill)

Web: www.samaritans.org

Email: [email protected]

Shout

Text SHOUT

to 85258

to start a confidential conversation with a trained Shout

volunteer.

Twins Trust

Twinline is

Twins Trust’s listening service for parents of twins, triplets and more. All

the calls are answered by volunteers who have multiples themselves.

Twinline is

open Monday to Friday 10am to 1pm and from 7pm to 10pm. 0800 138 0509,

alternatively email [email protected].

Web: twinstrust.org/let-us-help/support/twinline.html

Tommy’s

Tommy’s has a

team of in-house midwives who offer free support and information for women and

their families at any stage of pregnancy and after the birth.

Web: www.tommys.org

Helpline: Tommy’s

helpline has been closed temporarily but their midwives are answering questions

via email, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.

Email: [email protected]

MUSIC by Joseph McDade

Specialist Postnatal Depression Counsellor Liz Wise talks about her own personal experience of PND, which she suffered from with the birth of both her daughters. Despite surviving cancer twice, losing both her parents, losing two of her best friends and going through a very stressful divorce, none of these events ever gave Liz depression. Yet having her daughters did.  

We also speak to Liz’s daughter Emma. Whilst Liz’s mental illness caused bonding issues with Emma as a baby, this did not affect their relationship growing up. In fact, Emma says she feels Liz’s experience of PND made her an even better mum.

Liz made a full recovery. Since then she has been supporting mothers with postnatal depression for over twenty five years. She sits on the committee for The Association for Postnatal Illness and has her own charity The Cedar House Support Group which offers help to mothers through support groups in London and Surrey. Liz offers confidential one to one counselling either face to face, phone, online or email and runs PND support groups in London and Surrey.   (LINK IN SUPPORT BELOW)

In this episode we discuss:

[00:00] Introduction to Liz Wise – the queen of PND!

[01:49] Liz's traumatic molar pregnancy which developed into cancer (choriocarcinoma)

[02:46] The joy of finding she was pregnant with Emma

[04:11] Feeling disconnected from her baby

[05:04] Anxiety, her struggle with breastfeeding and wanting to withdraw from friends

[06:05] Liz's first panic attack whilst out shopping

[06:25] Getting support

[08:37] Over-compensating for her lack of feelings for Emma

[09:48] How it felt to be diagnosed with PND

[10:27] Suicidal feelings, referral to a psychiatrist and support from family

[14:12] Approaching having a second child

[15:42] Bonding with her new baby

[16:02] Coming down with PND for a second time - developing health anxiety

[20:06] Why Liz is grateful for experiencing PND - advice for other mums

[22:07] Liz's daughter Emma's experience of growing up with a mum affected by PND

[25:14] How Emma learnt about her mum’s PND

[27:24] Emma’s work as a virologist & work in SARS-CoV-2

[28:16] Normalising the conversation around mental health issues

[29:33] Emma speaks positively about the benefits of having a mum with PND

[33:31] A message to other parents - you’re not alone, you're not going to mess up your children

 *** TRIGGER WARNING: These are real-life conversations, from the heart, so please listen with discretion. Please also refer to our SUPPORT section below ***

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

• You are not alone and will not feel this way for ever
• Bonding issues won’t affect your relationship with your child later on
• Talking about your feelings can normalise mental health issues
• Support is available (please see SUPPORT links below)
• Having PND can have a positive affect on your child

If you enjoyed this episode, please share, rate and subscribe. It really does make the difference in helping others find it – which means helping more parents in need.

Follow us:

Instagram

Twitter

Email: [email protected]

NEXT WEEK’S EPISODE:

In Episode 2 of Blue MumDays, I’ll be talking to Emily Goldhill about what it was like to have her baby during the height of the Covid pandemic in 2020, and how this contributed to her postnatal depression.

SUPPORT:

If you are struggling right now, please know that it’s okay to talk and reach out for help. YOU ARE NOT ALONE AND WILL NOT FEEL THIS WAY FOR EVER. We hope these support services are helpful (please note we do not check or monitor them individually).

Action on Postpartum Psychosis (APP)

Moderated Forum, click here to find out more.

Email: [email protected]

Tel: 020 3322 9900

Association of Postnatal Illness

Helpline: 10am – 2pm – 0207 386 0868

Email: [email protected]

Live chat online facility

Best Beginnings

Free NHS-accredited Baby Buddy app offering evidence-based information and self-care tools to help parents during pregnancy and early stages of parenting.

App users also have access to a confidential, text-based Crisis Messenger which provides 24/7 support for new and expectant parents who are feeling extremely anxious or overwhelmed.

Birth Trauma Association

Email: [email protected]

CALM

Contact CALM on their national helpline: 0800 58 58 58 (5pm-midnight)

Cedar House Support Group

Email: [email protected] (Liz Wise)

Mobile: 07773 283556

Make Birth Better (Birth Trauma Support)

Maternal OCD

Peer support available, email [email protected] to arrange

Muslim Women’s Network

Helpine: 0800 999 5786, open Mon-Fri 10am – 4pm with support offered in English, Urdu, Punjabi, Mirpuri, Putwari, Hindko, and Bengali.

Email: [email protected]

Online chat: www.mwnhelpline.co.uk

Text: 07415 206 936

Netmums

Netmums offer peer support via their Maternal Mental Health Drop-In Clinic.

NHS

Contact your local GP surgery.

Call the NHS on 111 or contact a local NHS urgent mental health helpline

If you are in crisis, visit Accident & Emergency at your nearest hospital.

PANDAS

Helpline open from 9am-8pm every day – 0843 2898 401

Email support available – [email protected]

Petals

Petals offers free-of-charge specialist counselling to anyone who has experienced pregnancy or baby loss.

Web: petalscharity.org/counsellingcontact/

Email: [email protected]

Tel: 0300 688 0068

Samaritans

Tel: 116 123 (this is a free telephone number and will not appear on the phone bill)

Web: www.samaritans.org

Email: [email protected]

Shout

Text SHOUT to 85258 to start a confidential conversation with a trained Shout volunteer.

Twins Trust

Twinline is Twins Trust’s listening service for parents of twins, triplets and more. All the calls are answered by volunteers who have multiples themselves.

Twinline is open Monday to Friday 10am to 1pm and from 7pm to 10pm. 0800 138 0509, alternatively email [email protected].

Web: twinstrust.org/let-us-help/support/twinline.html

Tommy’s

Tommy’s has a team of in-house midwives who offer free support and information for women and their families at any stage of pregnancy and after the birth.

Web: www.tommys.org

Helpline: Tommy’s helpline has been closed temporarily but their midwives are answering questions via email, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter.

Email: [email protected]

MUSIC by Joseph McDade

An introduction to the Blue MumDays parental mental health podcast. Hear from guests such as PND Counsellor Liz Wise and Elliott Rae of Music, Football Fatherhood in this short taster. MUSIC: Joseph McDade.