Build Your SaaS

Jon and Justin reflect on 2021 and get excited about 2022:

• Rework podcast episode: the word "startup"
• Should we rename the show "Maintain your SaaS"? ;)
• Biggest highlights: hiring Helen and Jason
• Giving employees generous bonuses
• Justin's list of non-alcoholic drinks
• Captivate (one of our competitors) was just acquired
• Different types of founder stress
• Should we sell our company? Our friends at Rewardful were just acquired
• Plans and features for 2022

What happened in 2021?

• January: Clubhouse got popular
• March 2021: send private podcast episodes by email
• April 2021: we hired Helen
• April-May: new API updates (analytics)
• July: new podcast analytics charts + compare episodes
• July: add transcripts to episodes
• August 2021: we hired Jason
• Sept: first release of DAI
• Oct: Descript integration
• Nov: DAI mid-rolls
• Black Friday. Worth it?
• Riverside integration

What should we talk about next?

• Twitter: @buildyoursaas, @mijustin, @jonbuda
• Leave a review/comment on Podchaser; it's like Reddit, but for podcasts.
• Email us: [email protected]

Thanks to our monthly supporters:

• Marcel Fahle, ​​wearebold.af
• Anton Zorin from ProdCamp.com
• Mitch
• Harris Kenny, Intro CRM podcast
• Oleg Kulyk
• Violette Du Geneville
• Take It EV podcast
• Ethan Gunderson
• Diogo
• Chris Willow
• Borja Soler
• Ward Sandler, Memberspace
• Eric Lima
• James Sowers (like Flowers)
• Travis Fischer
• Matt Buckley
• Russell Brown
• Evandro Sasse
• Pradyumna Shembekar (PD)
• Noah Prail
• Colin Gray
• Josh Smith
• Ivan Curkovic
• Shane Smith
• Austin Loveless
• Simon Bennett
• Michael Sitver
• Paul Jarvis and Jack Ellis, 
• Dan Buda 
• Darby Frey
• Samori Augusto
• Dave Young
• Brad from Canada
• Sammy Schuckert
• Mike Walker
• Adam DuVander
• Dave Giunta (JOOnta)
• Kyle Fox GetRewardful.com

In this guest episode, Justin chats with Brian Casel.

• Bootstrapped Web podcast
• ZipMessage
• Brian's other projects

What should we talk about next?

• Twitter: @buildyoursaas, @mijustin, @jonbuda
• Leave a review/comment on Podchaser; it's like Reddit, but for podcasts.
• Email us: [email protected]

Thanks to our monthly supporters:

• Anton Zorin from ProdCamp.com
• Mitch
• Harris Kenny, Intro CRM podcast
• Oleg Kulyk
• Violette Du Geneville
• Take It EV podcast
• Ethan Gunderson
• Diogo
• Chris Willow
• Borja Soler
• Ward Sandler, Memberspace
• Eric Lima
• James Sowers (like Flowers)
• Travis Fischer
• Matt Buckley
• Russell Brown
• Evandro Sasse
• Pradyumna Shembekar (PD)
• Noah Prail
• Colin Gray
• Josh Smith
• Ivan Curkovic
• Shane Smith
• Austin Loveless
• Simon Bennett
• Michael Sitver
• Paul Jarvis and Jack Ellis, 
• Dan Buda 
• Darby Frey
• Samori Augusto
• Dave Young
• Brad from Canada
• Sammy Schuckert
• Mike Walker
• Adam DuVander
• Dave Giunta (JOOnta)
• Kyle Fox GetRewardful.com

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

In this bonus episode, Justin interviews his 18-year-old daughter, Sadie, about:

• A Gen Z perspective on podcasting
• Why women are the future of podcasting: Edison Research
  • "Now, look at the rookies – 47% are men, but the majority, 53% are women."
  • "Most women get their podcast recommendations from Spotify, social media, or their friends."
• We talk a lot about podcast advertising, podcast ads, and how the adtech industry should think differently about how they target women.
  • "Most podcast ads are just men talking to men."

What should we talk about next?

• Twitter: @buildyoursaas, @mijustin, @jonbuda
• Leave a review/comment on Podchaser; it's like Reddit, but for podcasts.
• Email us: [email protected]

Thanks to our monthly supporters:

• Anton Zorin from ProdCamp.com
• Mitch
• Harris Kenny, Intro CRM podcast
• Oleg Kulyk
• Violette Du Geneville
• Take It EV podcast
• Ethan Gunderson
• Diogo
• Chris Willow
• Borja Soler
• Ward Sandler, Memberspace
• Eric Lima
• James Sowers (like Flowers)
• Travis Fischer
• Matt Buckley
• Russell Brown
• Evandro Sasse
• Pradyumna Shembekar (PD)
• Noah Prail
• Colin Gray
• Josh Smith
• Ivan Curkovic
• Shane Smith
• Austin Loveless
• Simon Bennett
• Michael Sitver
• Paul Jarvis and Jack Ellis, 
• Dan Buda 
• Darby Frey
• Samori Augusto
• Dave Young
• Brad from Canada
• Sammy Schuckert
• Mike Walker
• Adam DuVander
• Dave Giunta (JOOnta)
• Kyle Fox GetRewardful.com

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

This week Jon and Justin discussed:

• Tweet: what should we talk about?
• Justin's daughter wrote an article for the Transistor blog: https://transistor.fm/gen-z/ 
• Customer case studies
• Dynamic audio insertion
• Integration with Descript
• Book: Range by David Epstein

What should we talk about next?

• Twitter: @buildyoursaas, @mijustin, @jonbuda
• Leave a review/comment on Podchaser; it's like Reddit, but for podcasts.
• Email us: [email protected]

Thanks to our monthly supporters:

• Anton Zorin from ProdCamp.com
• Mitch
• Harris Kenny, Intro CRM podcast
• Oleg Kulyk
• Violette Du Geneville
• Take It EV podcast
• Ethan Gunderson
• Diogo
• Chris Willow
• Borja Soler
• Ward Sandler, Memberspace
• Eric Lima
• James Sowers (like Flowers)
• Travis Fischer
• Matt Buckley
• Russell Brown
• Evandro Sasse
• Pradyumna Shembekar (PD)
• Noah Prail
• Colin Gray
• Josh Smith
• Ivan Curkovic
• Shane Smith
• Austin Loveless
• Simon Bennett
• Michael Sitver
• Paul Jarvis and Jack Ellis, 
• Dan Buda 
• Darby Frey
• Samori Augusto
• Dave Young
• Brad from Canada
• Sammy Schuckert
• Mike Walker
• Adam DuVander
• Dave Giunta (JOOnta)
• Kyle Fox GetRewardful.com

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

This week Justin chats with Michele Hansen, founder of Geocodio. I got fired up about interviewing customers! 

• Get Michele's new book! Deploy Empathy
• Listen to Michele's podcast: Software Social
• "Empathy is a skill you can learn."
• Get Michele's newsletter
• "There's so much shame in the tech community."
• What are the boundaries for deploying empathy? When, and how, do we deliver critiques?
• Podcast: a respectful interview with a flat-earther 
• "This book isn't just about deploying empathy to customers, it's also about learning to be more empathetic to your family, friends, coworkers."
• 31:30 – we start discussing customer interviews
• "It was easier for me to learn how to have empathy for customers than it was to have empathy for myself."
• 42:27 – "how does empathy help businesses attract new customers, build better products?"
• 46:53 - "Why don't you bring Jon in on those interviews?"

What should we talk about next?

• Twitter: @buildyoursaas, @mijustin, @mjwhansen
• Email us: [email protected]

Thanks to our monthly supporters:

• Anton Zorin from ProdCamp.com
• Mitch
• Harris Kenny, Intro CRM podcast
• Oleg Kulyk
• Violette Du Geneville
• Take It EV podcast
• Ethan Gunderson
• Diogo
• Chris Willow
• Borja Soler
• Ward Sandler, Memberspace
• Eric Lima
• James Sowers (like Flowers)
• Travis Fischer
• Matt Buckley
• Russell Brown
• Evandro Sasse
• Pradyumna Shembekar (PD)
• Noah Prail
• Colin Gray
• Josh Smith
• Ivan Curkovic
• Shane Smith
• Austin Loveless
• Simon Bennett
• Michael Sitver
• Paul Jarvis and Jack Ellis, 
• Dan Buda 
• Darby Frey
• Samori Augusto
• Dave Young
• Brad from Canada
• Sammy Schuckert
• Mike Walker
• Adam DuVander
• Dave Giunta (JOOnta)
• Kyle Fox GetRewardful.com

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

This week Jon and Justin discussed:

• Our values determine how we make decisions
• Hiring FT: we hired Jason Pearl!
• Summer SaaS slowdown
  • Tweet: worst month ever
  • ConvertKit’s public numbers

What should we talk about next?

• Twitter: @buildyoursaas, @mijustin, @jonbuda
• Leave a comment on PodHunt; it's like Reddit, but for podcasts.
• Email us: [email protected]

Thanks to our monthly supporters:

• Mitch
• Harris Kenny, Intro CRM podcast
• Oleg Kulyk
• Violette Du Geneville
• Take It EV podcast
• Ethan Gunderson
• Diogo
• Chris Willow
• Borja Soler
• Ward Sandler
• Eric Lima
• James Sowers (like Flowers)
• Travis Fischer
• Matt Buckley
• Russell Brown
• Evandro Sasse
• Pradyumna Shembekar (PD)
• Noah Prail
• Colin Gray
• Josh Smith
• Ivan Curkovic
• Shane Smith
• Austin Loveless
• Simon Bennett
• Michael Sitver
• Paul Jarvis and Jack Ellis, 
• Dan Buda 
• Darby Frey
• Samori Augusto
• Dave Young
• Brad from Canada
• Sammy Schuckert
• Mike Walker
• Adam DuVander
• Dave Giunta (JOOnta)
• Kyle Fox GetRewardful.com

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

This week Spencer Fry, founder of Podia.com, joins Justin Jackson to talk about venture capital and bootstrapping.

• Spencer's tweet: "The hostility that the bootstrapper community has towards the VC community continues to perplex me."
• Justin's interview with Jason Calacanis (2013)
• VC brags
• Roy Bahat on Big Technology Podcast: Why VCs are mad
• 06:30 "Capital changes lots of dynamics in society. It's not neutral." – Justin Jackson
• Silicon Valley: No Revenue (video)
• Blog post: Podcasts and capital
• How venture capitalists make money
• The rise and fall of Quibi: from raising $1.75 billion before launch to shutting down just 6 months later
• Tweet: the negative effects of overcapitalization
• Tweet: Big-name VCs, and their hypocrisy, give VCs a bad name.
• Techcrunch: "The meeting that showed me the truth about VCs"
• Adii Pienaar on venture capital: Raising Anxiety
• Blog post: The hidden cost of bootstrapping

What should we talk about next?

• Twitter: @buildyoursaas, @mijustin, @jonbuda, @spencerfry
• Email us: [email protected]

Thanks to our monthly supporters:

• Mitch
• Harris Kenny, Intro CRM podcast
• Oleg Kulyk
• Violette Du Geneville
• Ethan Gunderson
• Diogo
• Chris Willow
• Borja Soler
• Ward Sandler
• Eric Lima
• James Sowers (like Flowers)
• Travis Fischer
• Matt Buckley
• Russell Brown
• Evandro Sasse
• Pradyumna Shembekar (PD)
• Noah Prail
• Colin Gray
• Josh Smith
• Ivan Curkovic
• Shane Smith
• Austin Loveless
• Simon Bennett
• Michael Sitver
• Paul Jarvis and Jack Ellis, 
• Dan Buda 
• Darby Frey
• Samori Augusto
• Dave Young
• Brad from Canada
• Sammy Schuckert
• Mike Walker
• Adam DuVander
• Dave Giunta (JOOnta)
• Kyle Fox GetRewardful.com

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

This week Jon and Justin discussed:

• Basecamp
  • Note: we recorded this before Casey Newton's second article on Basecamp came out.
  • Also: this article is a really thoughtful take on the whole situation.
  • Ruby/Rails open source world.
    • https://discuss.rubyonrails.org/t/effect-of-the-last-week-on-ruby-on-rails/77702 
• SO EXCITED: HELEN IS ON THE TEAM! 🎉
  • https://transistor.fm/helen/ 
• Cost/benefit analysis
  • It’s really difficult to make that calculation: should we commit to this? How do we know that the cost will be worth the benefit?
  • For example, we could invest $100k + 6 months of time into building a mobile app for private podcasts, under the assumption that it will increase the number of private podcast customers we get. But what you don’t see is:
    • How much time + energy does it really take to build it?
    • Does it attract the wrong customers?
    • How much time + energy does it take to support it?
    • How does it affect the fun + calm of running the app?
    • Is all that effort really worth it?
• Apple’s latest release is bad
  • So many bugs from Apple: https://transistor.fm/apple-podcasts-problem/ 
  • One bug in Spotify: https://transistor.fm/spotify-bug/ 

What should we talk about next?

• Twitter: @buildyoursaas, @mijustin, @jonbuda
• Leave a comment on PodHunt; it's like Reddit, but for podcasts.
• Email us: [email protected]

Thanks to our monthly supporters:

• Mitch
• Harris Kenny, Intro CRM podcast
• Oleg Kulyk
• Violette Du Geneville
• Take It EV podcast
• Ethan Gunderson
• Diogo
• Chris Willow
• Borja Soler
• Ward Sandler
• Eric Lima
• James Sowers (like Flowers)
• Travis Fischer
• Matt Buckley
• Russell Brown
• Evandro Sasse
• Pradyumna Shembekar (PD)
• Noah Prail
• Colin Gray
• Josh Smith
• Ivan Curkovic
• Shane Smith
• Austin Loveless
• Simon Bennett
• Michael Sitver
• Paul Jarvis and Jack Ellis, 
• Dan Buda 
• Darby Frey
• Samori Augusto
• Dave Young
• Brad from Canada
• Sammy Schuckert
• Mike Walker
• Adam DuVander
• Dave Giunta (JOOnta)
• Kyle Fox GetRewardful.com

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

This we, we chatted about:

• Evil Crypto Teletubbies
• Voltswagon
• Fathom has acquired Google
• Jon is trying out a new private office, in a coworking space (Deskpass)
• Justin had a quick chat with Derrick Reimer, SavvyCal
• Tweet: Two years ago (March 2019), Justin posted a screenshot of our revenue numbers and we were just about to hit $10k in MRR.
  • Jason Fried: Your company history is a myth
  • Justin went full-time the next month (April 2019).
• Tweet: A mere six months after hitting $10k (April 2019), we hit $30k MRR (Oct 2019).
• This little business has given us more than we ever imagined. It’s changed our lives.
• Jon Youngfook is building Bannerbear
• Peter Suhm is building Reform
• Simon Bennett is building SnapShooter
• Tweet: There are so many productivity gurus, tips, hacks; lots of advice on how to "get more done in less time." 
  • "Not Tamagotchi. The tomato technique. Ack, what's that called?"
  • We're fine with getting a few good things done every day.
• "Gen Z is coming online now as potential customers. A whole new generation of kids is becoming adults."
• New releases on Transistor.fm:
  • Private podcasts can receive email + play on the web
  • Automatic tweet
  • Two-factor authentication
  • Import improvements

What should we talk about next?

• Twitter: @buildyoursaas, @mijustin, @jonbuda
• Leave a comment on PodHunt; it's like Reddit, but for podcasts.
• Email us: [email protected]

Thanks to our monthly supporters:

• Harris Kenny, Intro CRM podcast
• Oleg Kulyk
• Violette Du Geneville
• Take It EV podcast
• Ethan Gunderson
• Diogo
• Chris Willow
• Borja Soler
• Ward Sandler
• Eric Lima
• James Sowers (like Flowers)
• Travis Fischer
• Matt Buckley
• Russell Brown
• Evandro Sasse
• Pradyumna Shembekar (PD)
• Noah Prail
• Colin Gray
• Josh Smith
• Ivan Curkovic
• Shane Smith
• Austin Loveless
• Simon Bennett
• Michael Sitver
• Paul Jarvis and Jack Ellis, 
• Dan Buda 
• Darby Frey
• Samori Augusto
• Dave Young
• Brad from Canada
• Sammy Schuckert
• Mike Walker
• Adam DuVander
• Dave Giunta (JOOnta)
• Kyle Fox GetRewardful.com

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!

Real humans making a business together:

• Taking the leap
• Why is Justin jealous of Ben?
• Pros and cons of building a remote company in 2021
• Limited exposure to your co-founder
• What would take to get Jon to move to Canada?
• Story: confronting a burglar with a crowbar
• The algorithm rewards you for being early
• Spending a lot of time on Clubhouse
  • Apple Podcasts going into subscription podcasts roundtable
  • “Podcasting needs better distribution”
  • “Podcasting needs better discoverability”
  • “There needs to be the Adwords for Podcasting.”
  • ☝️ BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR
• How are we going to scale our SaaS?
• How does investing $500,000 in the podcast ecosystem change the ecosystem?
• Justin's talk with Jason Calacanis

What should we talk about next?

• Twitter: @buildyoursaas, @mijustin, @jonbuda
• Leave a comment on PodHunt; it's like Reddit, but for podcasts.
• Email us: [email protected]

Thanks to our monthly supporters:

• Harris Kenny
• Take It EV podcast
• Ethan Gunderson
• Anton Zorin
• Bill Condo
• Chris Willow
• Mason Hensley
• Borja Soler teami.io
• Ward from MemberSpace.com
• Travis Fischer
• Matt Buckley, from NiceThings.io 
• Russell Brown
• Evandro Sasse
• Noah Prail, eventOneHQ.com
• Robert Simplicio, Simplicio.com
• Colin Gray alitu.com
• Josh Smith, hellosift.com
• Shane Smith, dev.transistor.fm
• Austin Loveless
• Michael Sitver, letterjoy.co
• Paul Jarvis and Jack Ellis, usefathom.com 
• Dan Buda danbuda.com
• Darby Frey
• Samori Augusto, thebicrowd.com
• Brad from Canada
• Mike Walker
• Adam DuVander
• Dave Giunta (JOOnta)
• Kyle Fox GetRewardful.com

🎙️ Podcast hosting is provided by Transistor.fm.
📺 Learn how to start your own podcast!