In this conversation, Stephan Livera and Michael Tanguma explore the current landscape of Bitcoin, focusing on the challenges of self-custody, the role of custodians, and the emergence of multi-institution custody solutions. They discuss the importance of education in the Bitcoin space, the dynamics of Bitcoin treasury companies, and the unique opportunities for Bitcoin adoption in the Middle East. The conversation emphasizes the need for evolving security measures as Bitcoin adoption increases and the complexities of integrating Bitcoin with traditional finance.

Takeaways

🔸The onboarding process for Bitcoin is complex and requires education.

🔸Self-custody is challenging for many individuals, especially those with significant wealth.

🔸Institutional investors often prefer custodial solutions due to perceived security.

🔸Multi-institution custody offers a balance between security and accessibility.

🔸The Bitcoin ecosystem is evolving with new custody solutions to meet market demands.

🔸Education about Bitcoin and custody is crucial for wider adoption.

🔸The perception of Bitcoin's security is influenced by historical events like FTX.

🔸Individuals often conflate self-custody with the need for trusted intermediaries.

🔸The future of Bitcoin custody may involve advanced technologies like Miniscript.

🔸Meeting clients where they are in their understanding of Bitcoin is essential. Nobody kidnaps billionaires for their equity portfolio.

🔸Bitcoin changes the dynamic of theft and kidnappings.

🔸Most people can't think about outperforming Bitcoin.

🔸Liquidity killed all soundness in business unit economics.

🔸Everything is good for Bitcoin, but not for individuals.

🔸Bitcoin is a perfect fit for commodity-rich countries.

🔸Bitcoin is the solution they've been looking for.

🔸We need to be prepared for $250,000 Bitcoin.

🔸Think about security aspects and privacy elements.

Timestamps:

(00:00) - Intro

(01:03) - Where are we currently with Bitcoin adoption?; Growing demand for Bitcoin

(03:50) - The evolution of custody solutions

(09:05) - Why collaborative custody isn't enough

(13:57) - How effective is Miniscript and Timelock for safeguarding Bitcoin?

(16:32) - Risks & tradeoffs to consider while self-custodying Bitcoin

(20:10) - Sponsors 

(22:38) - Multisig Vs Multi-Party Computation (MPC) Wallets

(28:41) - How does Multi-Institution Custody work?; Security dynamics 

(35:20) - Is the user really in control of their Bitcoin?

(38:09) - Sponsors 

(42:57) - What are the costs & threshold to custody with Onramp?

(45:45) - What is ‘Early Riders’?; Bitcoin is the hurdle rate

(57:15) - Are Bitcoin Treasury Companies good for Bitcoin?

(1:01:37) - Can treasury companies sustain their mNAV above 1? 

(1:08:30) - The growing adoption of Bitcoin in the MENA region

(1:15:13) - Closing thoughts

Links: 

• https://x.com/MTanguma 

• https://x.com/onrampbitcoin 

• https://x.com/early_riders 

Sponsors:

• Bold Bitcoin

• CoinKite.com (code LIVERA)

• Lana by Galoy

Stephan Livera links:

• Follow me on X: @stephanlivera

• Subscribe to the podcast

• Subscribe to Substack