Buy the Numbers

Part two of a good conversation is where things usually get real. In this episode, I pick back up with Nush Ahmed and Brooke Laing from Sisterhood of Trades, and we get into the questions most shop owners quietly wonder about but rarely say out loud: why more women aren't walking through the door, what it actually looks like to attract them, and whether our instinct to "just hire good people" is actually enough.

One of the things that struck me in this conversation is how simple some of the answers are. Women aren't applying to manufacturing jobs in large numbers not because they don't want to work in a shop, but because many of them have no idea what manufacturing even is as a career option. Visibility is the entry point. And social media, whether you're comfortable with TikTok or not, is where that visibility happens today. If your shop isn't showing up where the next generation is spending time, you're not even in the conversation.

We also got real about what the next generation is actually looking for, and it's more nuanced than just higher wages. Purpose matters. Acknowledgment matters. The small things, a "good job" at the end of a shift, a manager who notices when someone puts in extra effort, carry more weight than I expected. That said, we had an honest conversation about total compensation, and I think every business owner who has ever been frustrated by someone turning down a job offer because the hourly rate was a dollar short will find something useful in where that conversation went.

We also touched on transparency, specifically what happens when shop owners start being honest with their teams about the economics of running a business. The response is usually not what you'd expect. Most people, when they actually understand the numbers, become more invested, not less. That's a management insight worth sitting with.

This is one of those episodes where I walked away having learned something. And when that happens, I like to share it.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in…

• (0:00) Welcome back and kicking off Part 2 with Nush and Brooke from Sisterhood of Trades
• (1:35) Why the next generation values purpose as much as a paycheck (and what that means for hiring)
• (4:55) How showing up at industry events creates real connections across generations
• (6:24) Your buyers have technical questions. Navu delivers reliable, accurate answers. Learn more at Navu.co/MakingChips
• (7:35) The visibility problem: women don't enter manufacturing because most don't know it's an option
• (10:10) Why your shop's social media presence is a recruiting tool whether you use it that way or not
• (13:07) Show women doing the real work: why representation on social media drives applications
• (17:42) Take your shop to the next level with DN Solutions
• (18:57) The positive reinforcement gap and why a simple "good job" can keep someone in the trades
• (20:54) Can you give hard feedback if you're not giving positive feedback first?
• (23:33) Why clean bathrooms are a better judge of company culture than most shop owners realize
• (24:58) Why we love the quality of SMW Autoblok workholding
• (25:45) Healthcare benefits and why total compensation matters more than the number on an offer letter
• (33:59) Why being transparent about shop economics helps workers understand what owners are dealing with
• (37:46) Closing the generational gap: what both sides actually need to do to connect
• (42:37) How to find Sisterhood of Trades and connect with Nush and Brooke

Resources Mentioned

• Your buyers have technical questions. Navu delivers reliable, accurate answers. Learn more at Navu.co/MakingChips
• Take your shop to the next level with DN Solutions
• Why we love the quality of SMW Autoblok workholding

Connect with Our Guests

• Nush Ahmed on LinkedIn
• Brooke Laing on LinkedIn
• Sisterhood of Trades on TikTok

Connect with Buy the Numbers

• Follow on LinkedIn
• Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn

Subscribe to Buy the Numbers

on Apple + Spotify

In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I sat down with Nush Ahmed and Brooke Laing for one of the more entertaining and eye-opening conversations I've had in a while. What started with jokes about generational slang and communication styles quickly turned into a serious discussion about leadership, workplace culture, and what younger generations are actually looking for in manufacturing careers.

As someone who's spent decades building teams and leading manufacturing companies, I've seen firsthand how much the workforce has changed. Today, many companies have four or even five generations working side by side, each with different expectations around communication, feedback, work-life balance, and career growth. This episode dives into those differences head-on, from the "no news is good news" mentality many older generations grew up with to the constant feedback and transparency younger workers expect today.

We also talked about something I think manufacturing leaders need to hear more often: younger employees want opportunity and involvement, not just a paycheck. Nush and Brooke shared stories about trade shows, networking, community-building, and why companies often miss the mark when they fail to support employees who are trying to grow professionally. Hearing how impactful events like IMTS and industry networking were to their careers reinforced something I strongly believe: if someone on your team wants to learn, connect, and represent your company, you should encourage it.

This conversation challenged some of my own assumptions and reinforced others, but more than anything, it highlighted how important communication and intentional leadership are if we want to attract and retain the next generation in manufacturing. Whether you're a shop owner, manager, or someone entering the trades yourself, there's a lot in this episode that will probably sound familiar. And yes, there are still plenty of dad jokes and generational roasts mixed in along the way.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• (0:00) Mike reflects on the chaotic and hilarious Toolpath Summit recording session
• (2:25) Nush and Brooke introduce their backgrounds in trades, manufacturing, and Sisterhood of Trades
• (4:08) Navigating multiple generations in today's manufacturing workforce
• (6:33) Breaking down Gen Z slang, communication styles, and workplace language gaps
• (12:02) How generational communication differences affect management and feedback
• (16:16) Get a free report of sales opportunities in your area from FacturMFG.com/chips
• (17:25) Mike shares how Hill Manufacturing intentionally built a younger leadership team
• (19:56) Why younger workers often feel disconnected from ownership and management
• (24:35) Red flags Gen Z notices immediately when evaluating employers
• (26:45) Why older generations often equate long hours with commitment and value
• (29:46) Gen Z perspectives on work-life balance, proving yourself, and career growth
• (32:23) Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA)
• (33:34) The debate around "family culture" in manufacturing companies
• (36:55) What younger workers actually value most from leadership and workplace culture
• (38:21) Trying to finance your equipment? Check out Verdantcc.com/numbers
• (38:54) The role of pay, flexibility, and opportunity in attracting younger talent
• (40:11) Why employers should support younger workers attending trade shows and industry events
• (43:10) Brooke shares her experience being laid off after taking time off for industry involvement
• (44:03) Stay tuned for part two: A conversation around women in manufacturing and social visibility

Resources & People Mentioned

• Get a free report of sales opportunities in your area from FacturMFG.com/chips
• Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA)
• Trying to finance your equipment? Check out Verdantcc.com/numbers

Connect with the Sisterhood of Trades

• Sisterhood of Trades
• Nush Ahmed on LinkedIn
• Brooke Laing on LinkedIn
• Sisterhood of Trades on LinkedIn
• Sisterhood of Trades on Instagram
• Sisterhood of Trades on TikTok

Connect With Buy the Numbers

• Follow on LinkedIn
• Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn

Subscribe to Buy the Numbers

on Apple + Spotify

Audio Production and Show Notes by - PODCAST FAST TRACK

Recorded live from the DN Solutions open house near Chicago, this special crossover episode blends the worlds of Buy the Numbers and Lights Out into one conversation about manufacturing growth, automation, and the real numbers behind machine tool investments. Surrounded by machines making chips all around us, we dive into what actually drives smart capital expenditures in a modern machine shop.

Throughout the episode, we unpack the balancing act between financial discipline and strategic growth. From twin-spindle turning centers to automated five-axis workflows, we discuss how manufacturers should think about throughput, spindle utilization, labor constraints, machine consolidation, and long-term capacity planning. More importantly, we explore how shops can avoid the trap of simply buying equipment because it looks exciting instead of because it solves a real operational need.

We also pull back the curtain on how Hill Manufacturing evaluates new opportunities and plans for future growth. Mike walks through a real-world example of assessing a major customer opportunity that could dramatically increase revenue, while simultaneously forcing hard decisions around automation, throughput targets, and production capacity. The result becomes a practical conversation about how manufacturers should approach ROI calculations, CapEx strategy, and investing in capability before they absolutely need it.

Along the way, we tackle one of the biggest misconceptions around automation: that it's about replacing people. In reality, we believe automation is about freeing skilled employees from repetitive, low-value tasks so they can focus on setups, process improvement, and higher-level problem solving. Whether it's unattended machining, machine monitoring, or smarter workflows, this episode is ultimately about building manufacturing businesses that run more efficiently, scale more intelligently, and create more freedom for the people inside them.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• (0:00) A special live crossover episode from the DN Solutions open house blends "Buy the Numbers" and "Lights Out"
• (2:15) Mike and Nick discuss the future "roadshow" concept and why tech centers may be the future of manufacturing events
• (4:09) Mike explains how he approaches multi-year CapEx planning and evaluating future machine investments
• (9:10) Why every machine shop should have a formal capital expenditure strategy
• (11:24) Why we love Verdant Commercial Capital for equipment financing
• (11:57) How maximizing older equipment and improving workflows can delay unnecessary machine purchases
• (16:50) How automation, machine monitoring, and tool optimization work together to increase utilization
• (18:30) Why the numbers matter in manufacturing decisions, even when strategic choices go beyond pure ROI
• (21:56) The parallels between buying machine tools and acquiring manufacturing businesses
• (24:43) The rapid pace of innovation in manufacturing software, automation, and shop-floor technology
• (27:43) The true cost of downtime, DIY fixes, and underestimating the value of people's time
• (31:10) Why automation is really about freeing skilled employees to do higher-value work
• (33:30) Get a free report of sales opportunities in your area from FacturMFG.com/chips
• (35:15) Mike walks through evaluating a major new customer opportunity and determining required capacity
• (40:24) Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA)
• (41:04) How ROI calculators and throughput modeling help justify major equipment investments
• (45:37) Why service support and machine uptime are critical factors in choosing machine tool partners
• (47:16) How automation improves profitability without forcing shops to lower pricing
• (49:22) Why profitability is essential for taking care of employees, customers, and the broader community

Resources & People Mentioned

• Why we love Verdant Commercial Capital for equipment financing
• Hennig ROI Calculator
• Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA)
• Get a free report of sales opportunities in your area from FacturMFG.com/chips

Connect With Buy the Numbers

• Follow on LinkedIn
• Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn

Subscribe to Buy the Numbers

on Apple + Spotify

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If you're like most shop owners, HR, payroll, and benefits are necessary evils—important, but far from the reason you got into manufacturing in the first place. Yet those "back-office" functions can quietly drain your time, introduce risk, and even limit your ability to attract and retain great people.

In this episode of Buy the Numbers, Mike sits down with Jon from Thrive PEO to unpack one of the most misunderstood tools available to small and mid-sized manufacturers: the Professional Employer Organization (PEO). What starts as a conversation about payroll quickly expands into a broader discussion about risk management, employee benefits, compliance, and how to build a business that can punch above its weight class.

They break down common myths—like "we're too small" or "it's just outsourced payroll"—and reveal how PEOs actually create leverage. From accessing Fortune 500-level benefits to removing administrative burdens and reducing liability, this episode reframes HR from a cost center into a strategic advantage.

But beyond the numbers, this conversation is really about focus. What happens when you reclaim hours every week? What could you do if you stopped worrying about compliance, payroll taxes, and benefits administration—and started reinvesting that time into growth, people, and profitability?

If you've ever felt stretched thin trying to manage everything yourself, this episode might just introduce the "easy button" your business didn't know it needed.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• (0:00) How PEOs give small businesses access to large-company benefits and pricing
• (2:52) What a PEO is and how it consolidates HR, payroll, and benefits
• (6:00) Real-world example of fragmented HR functions vs. a unified PEO solution
• (8:07) Myth: "We're too small for a PEO" and why size doesn't matter
• (11:33) Leveraging pooled buying power to offer better, more affordable benefits
• (14:57) Breaking down the "too expensive" myth with real financial logic
• (17:14) Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA)
• (18:11) The three pillars of HR within a PEO: compliance, support, and technology
• (19:55) Using PEOs as a resource for handling sensitive employee situations
• (22:31) Enhancing employee experience through onboarding and HR tech
• (23:39) Real example: outdated employee policies and the risk of non-compliance
• (25:39) Constantly evolving employment laws and the challenge of staying compliant
• (27:11) Integrating HR systems with quality management and compliance requirements
• (29:38) Get a free report of sales opportunities in your area from FacturMFG.com/chips
• (30:46) Opportunity cost: what business owners could do with time saved
• (34:04) Hidden costs: liability, lawsuits, and compliance risks
• (36:20) Expanding into retirement benefits and 401(k) access through PEOs
• (39:16) Quality of life improvements for owners and leadership teams
• (41:02) Why you need to have a conversation with Verdant Commercial Capital
• (41:41) How to evaluate and choose the right PEO provider
• (44:34) Payroll tax risks and real-world horror stories for small businesses
• (46:56) Cash flow challenges and how PEOs stabilize payroll-related expenses
• (49:53) Key criteria: people, processes, and platform when selecting a PEO
• (53:21) How to connect with Jon to explore Thrive PEO for your business
• (55:16) Final takeaway: using a PEO to "punch above your weight" in talent and growth

Resources & People Mentioned

• MakingChips Seasons: Small Shop Owners Can Thrive with a PEO, 349
• Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA)
• Get a free report of sales opportunities in your area from FacturMFG.com/chips
• Why you need to have a conversation with Verdant Commercial Capital
• NAPEO.org

Connect with Jon Scoggins

• Thrive PEO
• Connect on LinkedIn

Connect With Buy the Numbers

• Follow on LinkedIn
• Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn

Subscribe to Buy the Numbers

on Apple + Spotify

Breaking the Ceiling: Systems, Data, and the Truth About Scaling a Machine Shop, Ep #44

Manufacturing will humble you—no matter how good you get. I was talking with someone recently about how this might be the only industry where you can perform at a world-class level and still lose money on scrap. That's just the reality we operate in. So the question becomes: how do you build a business that can actually handle that kind of pressure?

In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I sit down with Scott Shortess—someone I've known and trusted for years—to talk through what it really takes to break through that next level of growth. We've both seen shops get stuck. Flat revenue, constant firefighting, and that feeling that no matter what you do, you're not gaining ground. I've been there myself.

For me, one of the biggest shifts came when I realized I couldn't scale without better systems, processes, and visibility. Scott shares a similar journey—moving from a legacy system that no longer fit the business to something that completely transformed how his shop operates. And I've seen that transformation firsthand. It's not just about better data—it's about changing how your entire organization thinks and works.

We also get into the reality of what's happening right now with AI, custom-built systems, and the temptation to "just figure it out yourself." I've seen a lot of people go down that road. And while it can work, the bigger question is: is that really the best use of your time as a business owner?

At the end of the day, this episode is about clarity. When you have the right systems in place, you stop guessing. You stop reacting. And you start making decisions with confidence. That's what allows you to grow—and just as importantly, actually enjoy the business you've built.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• (0:00) Why manufacturing is one of the hardest industries—and learning to accept failure as part of the game
• (2:51) Scott's background, our relationship, and why collaboration matters (even among competitors)
• (7:19) How ProShop is critical to your ability to operate and scale
• (12:25) The chaos of operating without visibility—and how systems create accountability
• (16:22) The "4 P's": People, Process, Product, Profit—and why profit can't be ignored
• (18:12) Data, KPIs, and what actually matters to customers (quality, delivery, price)
• (21:25) Head to the DN Solutions Manufacturing Without Limits event
• (22:27) "Opportunity to cash": how to think about the flow of a manufacturing business
• (27:28) You're never too small to implement an ERP
• (30:02) Check out the Hennig WorkFlow Automated Pallet Delivery System
• (30:55) AI, "vibe coding," and the temptation to build your own systems
• (40:05) Using data to make better decisions—including when to say "no"
• (41:20) Culture transformation: how systems change behavior across the business
• (46:25) Why industry best practices beat homegrown systems
• (49:44) Manufacturing vs. baseball: embracing imperfection in a high-stakes industry
• (50:11) Real-world example of speed, planning, and execution under pressure
• (52:49) Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA)
• (53:30) The biggest operational shifts: visibility, capacity, and flow
• (57:48) The ultimate benefit: getting your time back as an owner

Resources & People Mentioned

• ProShop ERP
• Head to the DN Solutions Manufacturing Without Limits event
• Check out the Hennig WorkFlow Automated Pallet Delivery System
• Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA)

Connect with Scott Shortess

• Advanced PMC
• Scott Shortess on LinkedIn

Connect With Buy the Numbers

• Follow on LinkedIn
• Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn

Subscribe to Buy the Numbers

on Apple + Spotify

Audio Production and Show Notes by - PODCAST FAST TRACK

What actually makes leadership work in a manufacturing environment? Is it KPIs, lean systems, and dashboards? Or is it something far more human?

In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I sit down with Jason Woodard, COO of Geislinger Corporation and author of Manufacturing Leadership That Works, to unpack the leadership principles that drive real operational performance.

While the conversation touches on KPIs, accountability, and operating cadence, the foundation is surprisingly simple: trust. Jason argues that before you can improve numbers, you have to earn credibility with your team through transparency, vulnerability, and consistency.

The discussion explores the common traps leaders fall into, especially believing they're being kind by avoiding difficult conversations. In reality, that avoidance slowly erodes culture, drives away high performers, and lowers organizational standards. Jason shares practical examples of balancing empathy with accountability, and how clarity of expectations is the key to holding teams responsible without becoming the "jerk boss."

From there, the conversation moves into operational discipline. Jason walks through the core KPIs every manufacturing business should track, why safety-quality-delivery-cost is the right order, and how leading indicators often reveal problems long before financials do. He also explains how daily, weekly, and monthly meeting cadence builds alignment and eliminates surprises.

This episode blends leadership philosophy with actionable operational structure. Whether you're leading five people or five hundred, the takeaway is clear: strong culture drives strong numbers, and both require intentional leadership.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• (0:00) The overarching theme leaders should take away from Jason's book
• (2:00) Learn more about Jason Woodard and Geislinger Corporation
• (5:19) An overview of Jason's book Manufacturing Leadership That Works
• (10:17) Why trust is the foundation of leadership and business performance
• (14:58) An investment in ProShop ERP is an investment in your business
• (16:38) What is the biggest lie leaders tell themselves about performance issues?
• (21:23) How to balance empathy, grace, and accountability with employees
• (26:06) Why we created Hire MFG Leaders (and why you should use it)
• (26:37) Why clear expectations must come before accountability
• (32:03) What KPIs should manufacturing leaders track across the organization?
• (36:30) How KPIs should cascade from leadership to the shop floor
• (40:21) What does an effective daily production meeting look like?
• (45:14) How weekly pulse meetings and monthly reviews prevent surprises
• (46:45) Why leaders should "just start" building an operating cadence
• (48:50) Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA)
• (49:30) What numbers quietly kill profitability if you don't track them
• (52:07) Where to find the book and how teams can use it for development

Resources & People Mentioned

• An investment in ProShop ERP is an investment in your business
• Why we created Hire MFG Leaders (and why you should use it)
• Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA)
• Datanomix

Connect with Jason Woodard

• Manufacturing Leadership That Works
• Geislinger Corporation
• Buy 10 or more copies for your team and get two 30 minute calls with Jason (reach out on LinkedIn)

Connect With Buy the Numbers

• Follow on LinkedIn
• Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn

Subscribe to Buy the Numbers

on Apple + Spotify

CMMC is no longer something manufacturers can afford to ignore.

If you're doing work in the defense supply chain—or even thinking about it—this is quickly becoming a requirement, not a "nice to have." And what makes it challenging is that it's not just about passing an audit. It's about how your entire business handles data, systems, and security.

In this episode of Buy the Numbers, we break down what CMMC actually means for manufacturers in practical terms. What does it require? What does it cost? And how do you even begin to approach something that touches everything from your ERP to who can access your building?

We walk through the full scope of compliance—from documentation and system requirements to concepts like FedRAMP, POAMs, and shared responsibility across your vendor network. We also dig into the financial side, including how to think about ROI, the real cost and timeline, and why this could become a barrier to entry for some shops.

If you're unsure whether CMMC applies to you—or how serious you need to take it yet—this episode will give you a clear, practical starting point.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• (0:00) CMMC requirements and what manufacturers need to know
• (3:30) Why compliance is becoming a real financial consideration
• (8:52) The process of CMMC: systems, documentation, and process changes
• (16:51) A discussion about FedRAMP compliance
• (19:35) User access, building control, and security considerations
• (22:57) Get a free report of sales opportunities in your area at FacturMFG.com/chips
• (24:01) Get advice from a Registered Practitioner Organizations (RPOs)
• (25:01) How ProShop helps you reach CMMC compliance
• (31:26) The real cost of compliance and how to think about ROI
• (33:51) POAM: Plan of Actions and Milestones
• (35:40) CMMC compliance may be a barrier to entry for some shops—but not all
• (41:47) The vendors you use must also protect CUI
• (45:40) Grow your top and bottom line with CLA
• (46:51) Cost and timeline for CMMC compliance
• (50:04) Do your due diligence on any consultant you may use
• (51:40) Ask your supplier for a "Shared Responsibility Matrix"
• (54:46) Why we love SMW Autoblok for workholding
• (55:30) Who is currently FedRamp compliant?
• (59:41) The opportunities that will be available if you're CMMC compliant
• (1:04:31) Does the math make sense for your shop to become compliant?
• (1:09:10) Assess your readiness and build systems around it

Resources & People Mentioned

• CMMC Acronym Cheat Sheet for Manufacturers
• NIST SP 800-0171 Document
• Get a free report of sales opportunities in your area at FacturMFG.com/chips
• Grow your top and bottom line with CLA
• Why we love SMW Autoblok for workholding
• Ask your supplier for a "Shared Responsibility Matrix"
• GroundControl
• HighQA

Connect with Paul Van Metre

• ProShop ERP
• ProShop's CMMC Starter Guide
• Connect with Paul on LinkedIn

Connect With Buy the Numbers

• Follow on LinkedIn
• Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn

Subscribe to Buy the Numbers

on Apple + Spotify

Audio Production and Show Notes by - PODCAST FAST TRACK

Most of the time on Buy the Numbers, we focus on revenue growth, margin improvement, cash flow strategy, or capital investments. But in this episode, we turn our attention to something many manufacturers rarely question: utility expenses.

Electricity. Gas. Water. Sewer. Waste.

For most of us, these bills show up, we pay them, and we move on. They're viewed as fixed costs of doing business. But what if they're not as fixed as we think?

In this episode, I'm joined by Lori Demeyer and Leticia Lawson from CliftonLarsonAllen to talk about utility assessments — what they are, how they work, and where manufacturers may be leaving real money on the table.

We discuss exemption certificates, rate classifications, time-of-use billing, meter configurations, and why businesses in certain states may have more opportunity than they realize. Most importantly, we walk through the process and risk profile so owners can decide if it's worth exploring.

If you've ever assumed your utility bills are simply "the cost of doing business," this conversation may change how you think about one of the most overlooked lines on your P&L.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• (0:00) Nearly $1M in utility savings: what's possible over multiple years
• (1:10) Introducing Lori Demeyer and Leticia Lawson from CLA
• (3:55) What a utility assessment actually is and how it works
• (7:37) Manufacturing exemptions and how they apply to utilities
• (9:59) Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA)
• (10:40) Common billing errors, expired exemptions, and missed documentation
• (13:53) Rate classifications, multiple meters, and usage breakdowns
• (18:18) Incentives, business riders, and time-of-use rate opportunities
• (22:39) Get a free report of sales opportunities in your industry from facturmfg.com/chips
• (23:45) Who should consider a utility review and ideal spend profiles
• (26:36) State-by-state complexity and why California and the Northeast stand out
• (31:39) What the review process looks like (30–45 days, minimal client lift)
• (36:19) What happens if savings are identified and how implementation works
• (38:41) Real-world savings examples: six-figure and seven-figure impact
• (42:13) Why utility assessments are typically low-risk and contingency-based
• (45:00) How ProShop can help you achieve on-time delivery

Resources & People Mentioned

• Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA)
• Get a free report of sales opportunities in your industry from facturmfg.com/chips
• How ProShop can help you achieve on-time delivery

Connect with Lori and Leticia

• CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA)
• Connect with Lori Demeyer on LinkedIn
• Connect with Leticia Lawson on LinkedIn

Connect With Buy the Numbers

• Follow on LinkedIn
• Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn

Subscribe to Buy the Numbers

on Apple + Spotify

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Too many manufacturers treat taxes as a once-a-year compliance exercise. You gather the documents, sign the return, write the check, and move on. But the reality is that tax planning is one of the most powerful strategic tools available to business owners, especially in capital-intensive industries like manufacturing.

In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I'm joined by Dylan Valentyn and Julie Helms from CliftonLarsonAllen to walk through what manufacturers should actually be thinking about as they prepare their 2025 returns and look ahead to 2026. This conversation builds on recent tax law changes and focuses less on loopholes and more on decision-making, timing, and tradeoffs.

We talk about accounting method changes, bonus depreciation, R&D tax credits, inventory strategies, and real estate considerations, but always through the lens of practicality. Just because you can take a deduction doesn't always mean you should. The right answer depends on cash flow, growth plans, ownership structure, and even your long-term exit strategy.

If you've ever wondered whether you're leaving money on the table or pulling the wrong levers at the wrong time, this episode is a reminder that the biggest tax wins usually come from planning ahead, asking better questions, and having the right advisors in your corner.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• (0:00) Why tax planning should go beyond annual compliance
• (0:58) Introducing Dylan Valentyn and Julie Helms from CLA
• (2:51) Cash vs accrual accounting and when switching methods makes sense
• (6:39) How Factur can help you build out your sales pipeline
• (7:47) Using accounting method changes to manage cash flow timing
• (10:19) What didn't change in recent tax law and why that matters
• (11:39) Bonus depreciation returns: what qualifies and key dates to know
• (13:47) Net operating losses, carryforwards, and practical limits
• (17:34) Timing deductions vs paying taxes over the life of the business
• (18:42) Section 174 changes and catching up prior-year R&D costs
• (21:30) What qualifies as R&D in manufacturing (without lab coats) (25:00) How to achieve on-time delivery with ProShop ERP
• (26:54) Economic risk, contracts, and who really owns R&D
• (29:36) Process changes, automation, and integration as R&D opportunities
• (31:29) Training vs experimentation and where R&D begins and ends
• (34:44) Inventory strategy considerations, including LIFO timing
• (37:12 Cost segregation studies and accelerating building depreciation
• (38:53) Qualified production property and manufacturing-specific benefits
• (40:22) Why we created Hire MFG Leaders—and how you can use it
• (40:54) Why proactive CPA relationships matter more than tax software

Resources & People Mentioned

• Unlocking Tax Savings: Essential Strategies You Can Implement Immediately, Ep #10
• The One Big Beautiful Bill: What Manufacturers Need to Know Now, 474
• Get a free report of opportunities in your industry from FacturMFG.com/chips
• Maximizing Tax Savings: R&D Credits, Entity Selection, and the Work Opportunity Credit, Ep #11
• Get ProShop's guide to on-time delivery
• Use Hire MFG Leaders for your next recruit

Connect with Dylan & Julie from CLA

• Connect with Dylan
• [email protected]
• Connect with Julie
• [email protected]

Connect With Buy the Numbers

• Follow on LinkedIn
• Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn

Subscribe to Buy the Numbers

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Quality is often treated like a cost center in manufacturing. Something we have to do to satisfy customers, auditors, or certifications. But in my experience, quality is much more than that. It's one of the biggest drivers of cash flow, reputation, and long-term profitability in a shop. In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I sat down with Mehul from Ground Control to talk through the real, often hidden, cost of quality.

Our conversation starts with a simple but critical idea: parts don't get paid for unless the paperwork is right. You can machine a perfect part, ship it on time, and still watch payment get delayed weeks or months because an inspection report or FAI is missing or incorrect. That reality reframes quality documentation from "extra work" into a core financial process.

We walk through the full value chain of quality, from inspection planning and bubbled prints to in-process checks, scrap, rework, and external escapes. Along the way, we talk about where shops lose the most time and money, how better systems can prevent problems before they happen, and why catching issues internally is always cheaper than letting them reach the customer.

This episode is a practical look at quality as prevention, protection, and leverage. If you've ever dealt with late payments, chargebacks, rejected paperwork, or rework that quietly eats margin, this conversation will change how you think about the true cost of quality.

You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in...

• (0:00) A real-world quality failure and why documentation mistakes are so costly
• (1:30) Meeting Mehul and the origin story behind Ground Control
• (5:01) Grow your top and bottom-line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA)
• (6:12) Why quality documentation is directly tied to getting paid
• (12:00) Why bubbled prints are the essential first step of quality planning
• (14:16) Using automation and AI in quality without removing human judgment
• (15:15) How Factur can help you fill a qualified sales pipeline
• (16:21) The time and labor cost of manual quality processes
• (19:07) Prevention vs correction: how better planning reduces scrap and rework
• (20:31) The importance of in-process checks and smarter inspection strategies
• (23:26) Why quality education must extend beyond the quality department
• (24:07) Mark your calendars and come see us at IMTS 2026
• (25:07) Reporting quality data with or without a fully integrated QMS
• (26:54) Internal vs external failures and why external escapes are far more expensive
• (28:55) Supplier scorecards, penalties, and long-term reputation risk
• (31:40) How paperwork errors can erase margins and delay cash flow
• (35:56) Reframing quality as a revenue generator, not just a cost center
• (39:56) When quality failures become safety, legal, and life-or-death issues
• (41:48) Quick hits: key KPIs, common myths, and no-cost improvements
• (44:10) How to connect with Mehul and learn more about Ground Control

Resources & People Mentioned

• Grow your top and bottom-line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA)
• Get a free report of opportunities in your industry from facturmfg.com/chips
• Mark your calendars and come see us at IMTS 2026

Connect with Mehul Shah

• Ground Control
• Connect on LinkedIn

Connect With Buy the Numbers

• Follow on LinkedIn
• Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn

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on Apple + Spotify

Audio Production and Show Notes by - PODCAST FAST TRACK