The COP28 was big on promises, but can they be taken seriously when the location the president and so many of the participants are signed up to big oil? Is the secret to getting serious on mitigating climate change, getting capitalism on board? So that making money from saving the planet can become a real option? Julian Caldecott, Director of Creatura, an environmental consultancy, guides Phil and Roger around the necessities and mechanisms of making capitalism a true friend of the earth.

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