Welcome to When the Facts Change, a new podcast from The Spinoff together with Kiwibank. Each week host Bernard Hickey and guests will be peeling back the layers of New Zealand’s economy to reveal how it’s changing our lives and our society. This week, we’re talking about housing. Bernard is joined by Kiwibank chief economist Jarrod Kerr to discuss what’s going on with interest rates and whether more high-density housing will help solve our affordability issues. He then speaks with National housing spokesperson Nicola Willis about how she wants to improve the number of apartments being built, and Helen O’Sullivan, an expert on managing and developing these apartments.

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