Bridget Phillipson's schools bill is back in the Commons today. The scope of the legislation is twofold: firstly, looking at the welfare of children in schools and secondly at fundamentally changing the landscape of secondary education by doing away with academies (and with it the legacy of the previous Conservative government on education). The plan has been read by many – including former head of Ofsted Amanda Spielman, who joins today's podcast – as Labour pandering to the unions and perhaps even prioritising the adults (union members) over the children.

Amendments to the bill will be debated this afternoon, including a Tory amendment that would ban phones in schools, although it doesn't seem that Labour is in the mood to make any concessions. What is motivating Labour? What's the vision of change here?

James Heale speaks to Michael Gove and Amanda Spielman.

Produced by Oscar Edmondson and Megan McElroy.