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========== Today we hear a unique Combat Story from the former Director of the CIA’s Directorate of Operations and long-time Case Officer Jose Rodriguez. Jose’s level at the CIA was equivalent to a general officer in the military, to give you an idea of his responsibility and impact.

Jose was a case officer and Chief of Station in several Latin American countries and would eventually lead Latin America Division at the CIA before transitioning over to CTC right after 9/11 where he served as the Division’s Chief Operating Officer (a title he made up in true Agency fashion) and then was tapped to lead CTC just months after the invasion of Afghanistan. 

Jose has a fantastic book titled “Hard Measures: How Aggressive CIA Actions After 9/11 Saved American Lives” which recounts not only some of the innovative HUMINT ops he ran as a CO (like his ability to use horses to gain access), but also some of the incredibly challenging decisions he made at the highest levels of the CIA, including the creation of the Enhanced Interrogation program.

This was a really special episode for me given Jose’s role and history at the Agency and hope you enjoy a glimpse behind the curtain of one of the most secretive organizations from someone who went from the bottom to the very top as much as I did.

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Find Jose Rodriguez Online: - Learn more about Jose https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_Rodriguez_(intelligence_officer) - Hard Measures book: https://a.co/d/hkicr4h

Show Notes: 00:00 - Intro  00:41 - Guest Introduction (Jose Rodriguez) 01:59 - Interview begins 03:14 - Senior Leadership of the CIA 06:45 - Childhood 10:55 - Coming to the U.S. for the first time 13:20 - Interviewing for the CIA 17:38 - Fighting diversity in the Agency 19:05 - The importance of writing 21:30 - Deputy Director of Operations 30:58 - The relationship between Case Officers 33:02 - Becoming a good writer 34:48 - Loosing an Agent 37:55 - Becoming Chief of Station 42:47 - Tactics used to inspire 44:25 - First time in combat enviornment  48:18 - The feeling going into CTC 56:50 - Restructuring the CIA 01:10:26 - Challenges of Controversy 01:17:25 - CIA casualties 01:26:00 - Complexity of CIA operations 01:41:50 - Afterthoughts on the CIA 01:52:15 - Miss most from the Agency 01:55:00 - Would you do it again 01:56:18 - Closing thoughts  01:58:59 -  Listener comments and shout outs