Christian sits down with Marty Cagan to decode team topology: one of the most consequential yet misunderstood levers in product organizations. Learn how great leaders design product teams for maximum autonomy, clarity, and customer impact.

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Today’s discussion unpacks:

• How team topology is different from org structure
• Red flags that indicate a broken team structure
• The brutal trade-offs in optimizing for outcomes vs. velocity
• How cognitive load, chemistry, and trust affect team performance
• How to approach team design in growing or transforming orgs

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References:

• Amazon’s Two Pizza Team: https://aws.amazon.com/executive-• insights/content/amazon-two-pizza-team/
• Factors in Structuring a Product Organization by Marty Cagan: https://www.svpg.com/factors-in-structuring-a-product-organization/
• High Integrity Commitments by Marty Cagan: https://www.svpg.com/managing-commitments-in-an-agile-team/
• Pierre Omidyar: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pierre-omidyar-bb10687b/
• Team Topologies by Matthew Skelton and Manuel Pais: https://www.amazon.com/Team-Topologies-Organizing-Business-Technology/dp/1942788819

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Where to find SVPG:

• SVPG’s newest book, TRANSFORMED: https://www.svpg.com/books/transformed-moving-to-the-product-operating-model/
• Other books: https://www.svpg.com/books/
• Articles: https://www.svpg.com/articles/
• Workshops: https://www.svpg.com/
• Videos: https://www.svpg.com/videos/

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Where to find Christian Idiodi:

• LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/cidiodi/⁠

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Where to find Marty Cagan:

• LinkedIn:⁠ https://www.linkedin.com/in/cagan/

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Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro

(0:46) What is team topology?

(1:56) Top-down vs. bottom-up approaches

(3:01) Team topology ≠ org structure

(5:26) Optimizing for outcomes vs. throughput

(10:20) 3 signs you have a topology problem

(15:24) Who should own team topology?

(17:17) The surprising value of platform teams

(18:14) How do you define a product?

(20:36) The first step in a topology project

(22:23) The cost of scaling teams

(24:52) What high-performing topology requires

(25:13) Balancing resources and ratios

(32:36) Rolling out team topology changes

(33:34) Dismantling bureaucratic team bloat

(40:42) Addressing legacy teams and bureaucracy

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Disclaimer:

While this podcast is named “Product Therapy”, it is not hosted by licensed therapists or mental health professionals, and it is in no way a substitute for professional mental health services. We recognize the importance of mental well-being and encourage anyone facing personal difficulties to seek support from qualified professionals. See https://findahelpline.com/

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Production:

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