Ian and Tim sat down with Jonathan Schneider, CEO of Moderne, about large-scale source code refactoring and the journey of starting a company focused on automating this complex task. Jonathan shares insights from his experience at Netflix and discusses the intricacies of automatic refactoring, the importance of maintaining code consistency, and the interplay between deterministic rules and AI tools in managing code migrations. The conversation touches on the applications and challenges of using AI in code refactoring and explores the potential for hybrid solutions in the future.