When most people think of stroke, they picture an older adult, high blood pressure, or poor lifestyle choices. But for some stroke survivors, none of those apply. Instead, their stroke is the result of something hidden, something they were born with. That’s the case when a congenital heart defect leads to a hemorrhagic stroke.

A congenital heart defect (CHD) is a structural abnormality in the heart or major blood vessels that’s present at birth. Some are diagnosed in infancy, while others go unnoticed well into adulthood. In rare cases, these defects can weaken blood vessels, especially arteries, making them vulnerable to rupture.

A hemorrhagic stroke happens when a blood vessel in the brain bursts, causing bleeding and pressure that damages surrounding tissue. In stroke survivors with congenital heart defects, the stroke often stems from a weakened or malformed artery. These defects might involve arterial webbing, aneurysm-prone vessels, or thin-walled connections near the brain.

Sometimes, these abnormalities aren’t discovered until after a catastrophic event, like a stroke.

That was the case for Larissa Cogan. At 43, she was fit, active, and thriving professionally. One morning, as she prepared for the gym, she collapsed in her home and woke up hours later, unable to move her right side. The stroke had been caused by undiagnosed webbing in her aortic artery, a congenital defect she’d unknowingly carried her whole life.

Stories like Larissa’s remind us that stroke isn’t just about lifestyle. Sometimes, it’s about what we’ve unknowingly lived with since birth.

If you’ve experienced a stroke and your doctors haven’t been able to pinpoint the cause, it’s worth asking if a congenital defect could be involved. This is especially important if:

• You had a hemorrhagic stroke with no known risk factors.
• You’re young and otherwise healthy.
• There’s no family history of stroke, but something still went wrong.
  

Advocate for further scans or evaluations. A second opinion might be the first step toward peace of mind.

Recovery from a hemorrhagic stroke tied to a congenital defect may follow a similar rehab path to other strokes, physiotherapy, occupational therapy, and emotional support, but the emotional impact can feel different. You might wrestle with questions like:

“Was this preventable?”

“Did I do something wrong?”

“Will it happen again?”

It’s important to know: you didn’t cause this. You were born with it. And with the right support system, like Australia’s NDIS program, emotional counseling, community, and rehabilitation, you can rebuild your life in powerful new ways.

Many stroke survivors, including those with congenital causes, go on to discover post-traumatic growth: a deeper self-awareness, stronger resilience, and greater compassion. In Larissa’s case, what began as trauma evolved into self-confidence, advocacy, and the desire to help others.

“I’m more confident now than I was before my stroke,” Larissa said. “It made me realize what I’m really capable of.”

If you or someone you love has experienced a hemorrhagic stroke, and a congenital heart defect is suspected, know that you are not alone, and it is not your fault. There is life after this. There is strength. There is support.

And in many cases, there is a community of survivors waiting to welcome you and walk beside you on the road to recovery.

A congenital heart defect caused her hemorrhagic stroke. Now, Larissa’s powerful recovery story is giving stroke survivors hope and insight.

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Highlights:

00:00 Larissa’s Life Before The Stroke
03:02 The Day of The Stroke
08:48 Congenital Heart Defect and Hemorrhagic Stroke
19:50 Hospital Stay and Initial Recovery
26:21 Challenges in Recovery
32:53 Navigating Life Post-Stroke
40:49 Ongoing Recovery and Support
47:21 Reflections on Life Before and After the Stroke
54:09 Advice for Stroke Survivors

Transcript:

Bill Gasiamis 0:00
Hello everyone, and welcome back to the Recovery After Stroke Podcast before we dive in a quick thank you to everyone who’s left a comment, reviewed the show, supported on Patreon, clicked the YouTube super thanks, or even just let the ads play. You’re helping more than you know.

Bill Gasiamis 0:16
You’re helping this podcast reach someone who might feel completely alone in their stroke recovery, someone who, like today’s guest, once did and was found lying on the floor wondering why they couldn’t move and had no idea what was coming next. Today’s conversation is raw, real and full of unexpected twists.

Bill Gasiamis 0:38
My guest was living a high-performing life, active, ambitious and on the rise when everything changed in an instant. If you’ve ever thought this shouldn’t be happening to me, or if you’ve struggled with recovery when the world expects you to bounce back fast, this episode is for you. Let’s dive in. Larissa Kogan, welcome to the podcast.

Larissa Kogan 1:00
Thank you.

Bill Gasiamis 1:01
Tell me a little bit about what life was like for you before stroke.

Larissa Kogan 1:06
So before stroke, I was working very hard. I also was training during that, CrossFit training and some competitions and and then, as well as that, I used to see my friends a lot and go out when I wasn’t working, or training.

Bill Gasiamis 1:27
What kind of work did you do?

Larissa Kogan 1:29
I was a digital producer, so I worked for a super fund, and, yeah, and so I basically managed the website and communications through the website as well.

Bill Gasiamis 1:45
So what were you focused on? What was your big focus during that time? Was it work? Was it physical fitness? Was it getting out and about?

Larissa Kogan 1:54
It was all three, because I was really looking like to continue working hard, but to ultimately like proceed in my career and get a better job. As well as that I loved training, and I loved the CrossFit competitions that I participated in as well, which was generally other gyms competing against our gym, or we would go to a venue where there are people from all different gyms, and would all come together and we’d be given a workout, and we’re competing against each other. And if I wasn’t doing that, I loved going out with my friends as well.

Bill Gasiamis 2:38
So you would have had your fitness or your health and well-being at a pretty high level, you would have considered yourself really healthy.

Larissa Kogan 2:45
Yeah, absolutely. I knew from getting like, body scans and things like that, that I had, like, quite low body fat and I was very fit.

Bill Gasiamis 2:57
Tell me about the day that the stroke happened. What was that like? What did you expect?

Larissa Kogan 3:03
Yeah, I was getting up about five o’clock as usual to go to the gym before work. And so that was around five o’clock. The last thing I remember is, is being is standing up and and looking at, I guess, what clothes I was going to wear. And the next thing I knew, I was face down on the carpet.

Larissa Kogan 3:25
And by that stage, it was like well into the morning, and yeah, and, but it didn’t feel strange to me that I was lying face down and and it and I looked around, and I could see on my left hand side that my phone was very close by on the ground, and so I picked it up to call my colleague to let him know I wouldn’t be in the office that day.

Larissa Kogan 3:51
I just I knew I wasn’t going to be in the office, but it didn’t feel strange to me that I was lying on one side, my right side wasn’t moving at all. But that also didn’t seem strange. I never felt pain or anything like that. And and so I called my colleague, and I said, Oh, look, I won’t be in today, but I’ll see you at work tomorrow.

Larissa Kogan 4:19
And that’s kind of what I thought I said to him. He told me much later that he actually like, because he knew something wasn’t right, it didn’t sound right, and it was, it was all very off. And so he apparently, he asked me, Are you okay? Like, what’s going on? And I said, Look, I’m not, but I’ll see you tomorrow.

Larissa Kogan 4:42
And so and by for whatever reason that I he was the person I called. If I hadn’t have called him, or if my phone had been too far away, or like I would never have, spoken to anybody, and also no one. It like he had the foresight, I guess, to to speak with my boss and and HR. And eventually they called my they called my next of kin. And so she tried to call me.

Larissa Kogan 5:14
She tried to contact me through social media, all the rest of it, and I just wasn’t answering. And so she knew something was not right either. She went back to HR, and from there, they sort of got the ball rolling with calling, calling, initially police. And so when the police came to my house, I was in a two story apartment, and they were knocking on the door, and I said, I’ll be down.

Larissa Kogan 5:43
I managed to answer my they and I just wasn’t answering. I could barely, really move or anything, and and eventually they called me, and they said, are you there? And I said, I am. I’ll be down in a second to let you in. I couldn’t move. And so eventually they broke the door down, or broke or they broke in and and when they came upstairs, I was lying like however, I was lying on the floor.

Larissa Kogan 6:11
And the male police officer just said, Oh, she’s ODed. Look at her. She’s Oded. He said, something like that. And the female officer that was with him. She said, I think there’s something more to it than that. And she was talking to me, and I was talking with her. No problem. Well, probably there was a bit of a problem, but I could talk with her, and I felt fine and and so they called an ambulance.

Larissa Kogan 6:37
By the time the ambulance arrived, they came upstairs to my bedroom. As soon as they saw me, they said she’s had a stroke, and they said that’s what we think has happened. Like you listen to her, when you talk with her, she’s lucid. Everything’s fine. She hasn’t ODed and so from there, then the day just continued on.

Bill Gasiamis 6:58
Did you get an apology from the police officer?

Larissa Kogan 7:02
The female officer actually came in, saw me at the hospital a few days later. Yeah, the male officer never heard from him again.

Bill Gasiamis 7:11
How rude.

Larissa Kogan 7:13
Well, like that day, like I have no real recollection of this at all, but by the time I got to the hospital, it was like, after one o’clock, like, quite a lot of time had passed by then. Yeah, so I’d been just lying, and that was the thing, I think I could see that I was, like, slowly, not able to move. I was just, I could, like I was starting to whittle away, I guess.

Bill Gasiamis 7:42
Was it registering yet that there was something seriously wrong?

Larissa Kogan 7:47
No, like, my aunt, um, actually said to me, like, when I got to the hospital, I was in emergency, I guess, emergency, or ICU, something like that. And they and she was talking with me, I don’t remember speaking with her, and she said, you were, you were like, You were completely with it.

Larissa Kogan 8:04
And, yeah, so it’s when I got to the hospital. They initially kind of assessed me, I think I was in ICU, and then from there, they took me to another hospital which had a specific stroke Ward and and I, apparently, I was there for a few days. I had, I had went into, like, an emergency surgery as well.

Larissa Kogan 8:28
And the at one point, they, they literally didn’t think I was going to survive. But, yeah, but I came good. And then from there, I went back to the original hospital that I was at, which is near my house and and then they put me in the stroke ward.

Bill Gasiamis 8:48
What kind of stroke did you have?

Larissa Kogan 8:50
So I’ve done some research on, I think it was a hemorrhage, a hemorrhagic stroke. Yeah, yeah. So what I had in my artery is webbing on my aortic artery. So it’s, it’s like the artery hasn’t fully formed. So it’s like parts of it were very, very, very thin and, yeah, and so. And that morning, for whatever reason, it just burst. And like, I didn’t have high blood pressure.

Larissa Kogan 9:20
I have, if anything, like, quite low blood pressure, and yeah, and it was just after waking up, the doctors actually told me later, they said you could’ve had this at any point in your life, like, because you were born with it, and it was just that particular part of your artery, for some reason, and it was like, as it was, sort of heading up towards my neck, that part of my artery was just very thin.

Bill Gasiamis 9:48
So you’ve been in hospital, well, it’s taken you almost like half a day to get to hospital. You finally get in there. They’re checking you out, they’re putting you through the scans and. Do you have a moment of understanding? When does that come? How long before you realize that you’re in hospital and you’re unwell?

Larissa Kogan 10:09
So I mean, the first few days I, like all my family, were called to hospital. My brother was called down from Byron Bay. People just they thought I was going to die as well, and so they all came in to the hospital and saw me. Apparently I was speaking to people in a room like I was lying down.

Larissa Kogan 10:27
But I don’t remember any of this, but from that hospital back to the one near my house, I kind of came to in that when I sort of came to, I guess, woke up from the surgery and all the rest of it, I was just lying in this hospital bed, and I just didn’t really know what was going on, and some and so this was, like, a few days later now, and I think my my aunt was actually everyone in my family was Amazing.

Larissa Kogan 10:59
They came and saw me every single day, but they it. I don’t actually know exactly who or when I was told I had the stroke. It was like sometime around then, and I just, I don’t know I guess I, it didn’t seem like a big deal. And I remember thinking, I remember just thinking, oh, you know, I’ll be back at work in like a week.

Bill Gasiamis 11:31
Let’s pause for a moment. We’re about 10 minutes in by now, you’ve heard a glimpse of how Larissa’s Life flipped upside down. And one moment, everything’s normal. The next, you’re unable to speak clearly, unable to move, and people around you don’t even realize what’s going wrong.

Bill Gasiamis 11:49
If you’ve lived through that kind of confusion where your body says one thing and your mind says another, you’re not alone, and if you’re still trying to make sense of what’s happening to you or wondering how to rebuild when you’re running on empty. I see you.

Bill Gasiamis 12:03
If this part of the story resonates, leave a comment on YouTube. What part of this recovery has felt the most invisible or misunderstood for you? Thanks to everyone helping this podcast stay alive. Super thanks. On YouTube, book purchases. Our Patreon members, you’re the reason I keep doing this. Now, let’s get back to the conversation with Larissa, because what came next was not what anyone expected.

Larissa Kogan 12:32
It’s nothing. And, um, one like in the I was in this stroke ward, I guess. And I was, like, on my bed. I couldn’t move. I had or couldn’t move my right hand side, which, and I was right handed, um, so, yeah, it was, I remember one night, I thought, I need to get up and go to the bathroom. And I thought, I’ll just get out of bed and I’ll and I’ll get there, and I just fell straight over. I ripped my leg open on like there was something sharp.

Larissa Kogan 13:08
And so this was about three o’clock in the morning, and I couldn’t even feel it like it was just and so then I had to go into, like, another sort of round of surgeries to get everything stitched up. Yeah. So there was a few things like that that happened and that that I suppose, was when I was starting to think, oh my god, like, I can’t move and, and the doctors at that stage couldn’t tell me if it was going to get any better.

Larissa Kogan 13:33
They they just didn’t know. I ended up living in the hospital because I went from this, like this, the specific stroke ward to, like, just living in another part of the hospital for about three months. Rehabilitation type Ward, yeah, yeah, like rehabilitation.

Larissa Kogan 13:50
But I actually stayed in the hospital and it was, there was a range of different types of people there, so most of them were elderly, and because it was palliative care board there. But then in the particular room where I was, the people were changing all the time. There were some very old people. There was, like, homeless people, things like that. I was sort of just in there with everyone.

Bill Gasiamis 14:19
So when you realize that you can’t walk, and you fall out of your bed, and then you injure yourself. Is there a w2, a TF moment like it was?

Larissa Kogan 14:31
I just at that stage, I was just still really positive that everything would be fine. And it’s it took. It took about a month to really think, oh, shit, you know, like, this is not just a you won’t just get over this and get back to life. It was it, but it even when I sort of got back home. By that stage I was, I was. Was like walking with a with a cane and but like, I still had to go up and down, like, my my apartment was on two floors. But then, as well as that, there was three floors. You had to walk up to get to my, my apartment.

Bill Gasiamis 15:14
Wow.

Larissa Kogan 15:14
So I had to sort of manage all of that when I couldn’t really move my right hand side.

Bill Gasiamis 15:20
You know, the kind of thinking that you’ll be okay in a month or in a week was that, just because you were stroke affected, your brain wasn’t working properly. Maybe because you didn’t know anything about stroke beforehand.

Larissa Kogan 15:35
It was a little bit of both. But, I mean, I did start to read up on strokes after that, like, I had my phone in the hospital was looking up and like, and most of the information I found was all about old people, and it’s it’s about the like, the ill health that they have as they get older. Whereas mine wasn’t like that. And I did actually ask my doctor, you know, do other can other things affect the stroke, like like that?

Larissa Kogan 16:03
And he said, It wasn’t you were born with this webbing on your aortic artery and and they only discovered that themselves when, when, I guess, I went into surgery, and I also had a stent put in as well, just as a precautionary measure to strengthen it.

Larissa Kogan 16:23
And as I started to read more about strokes and more about young people having strokes, because there was nobody in the hospital with me that had, was a young person that had a stroke at that time, and in fact, in when I went into the the day the in care, living it like the other part of the hospital. There was nobody there that that had a stroke that particular time. Mm, even, even the older people. So it was. But as I started to do the rehabilitation there, there was a girl that used to come in a couple of times a week, and she was 21 and she had a stroke when she was 19.

Larissa Kogan 17:02
And so I was like, okay, so other people, other people. It affects other people. Yeah, and so. And then slowly, over time, I got to meet some other, other younger people that had strokes. And just before I left, a guy came in that was the same, like, the same age as me, and he had had a stroke, but I was leaving like that same week.

Bill Gasiamis 17:24
So you know, in the early days when you were questioning yourself, were you perhaps in a bit of a denial that you’ve had a stroke? Was any of that happening at all?

Larissa Kogan 17:36
Not, not denial? But no, it was. It’s, it’s such a weird thing to try and explain, because now, like, I’m, I’m completely aware that you know of things like this, but like, I just maybe, maybe, maybe denial, but not denial, yeah, just denial. It must have been. But, um, when I believe maybe as well. And I think I think that, um, yeah, I think disbelief as well.

Bill Gasiamis 18:09
I’m healthy. I go to the gym, you know, everything. I’m 43, how can I have a stroke kind of stuff?

Larissa Kogan 18:17
And like, when I went things, when I got home, that was when I think things started to take a little bit of a downturn for me, um, because I was back home, I was by myself. I wasn’t getting I wasn’t, um, sort of seeing people every day in the hospital or anything like that. And and then I had to start thinking like, what what next? And so I initially, my work agreed to have me back for half a day a week, and but when I when I was at work like there was very little I could do. And I’d actually spoken with a doctor already by then, and he said, I don’t think you should go back to work.

Larissa Kogan 19:01
He goes, honestly, you may never work again. That was the and when I was starting to hear things like that, I was like, Okay, maybe I’m not as okay as what I think I am. But I was also sleeping like a lot, like maybe about up to 20 hours a day fatigue, just, yeah, I just like, like, I’d get up and I’d maybe like, I’d try and go for a walk and like, I go for a walk, it might be just that I’d get down the stairs just sort of and then go back up again, like I was.

Bill Gasiamis 19:36
So was the hardest part, the physical part, or Was it not being able to work and go back to the gym? Like, was it navigating all the time?

Larissa Kogan 19:46
It was all of that I know also, like, I knew I had to at least put a hold on my membership at the gym, and I called the gym, like, called them to tell them I was. Going to have to take a break for a little while, and and then they answered the phone, and because of my aphasia, I guess, I couldn’t speak. I was trying to talk to them to say, you know, I I’ll need to have a little break for I knew exactly what I needed to say. It was that was not the issue. But when I went to say it, I was like, just, I couldn’t get any words out, and that was and so I started to become quite depressed for a while.

Larissa Kogan 20:27
And then it was around that time that NGIs, my NDIS sort of agreement has come. Had had come through. And so from there they said, Okay, we’ll have someone come and see you, and then we can figure out, like, what, what services are actually out there that you want to participate in, and, and so, yeah, so from there, I’m they, they had me talking initially with A psychologist. I also looked at getting some rehab, like physical therapy, and so that they were, like, the two big things, I had an OT come to my house and sort of go through everything with me as well.

Bill Gasiamis 21:13
Daily tasks were okay.

Larissa Kogan 21:16
So I could bet, like, I couldn’t really cook, um, so things like that, I was just everything. Was it was, yeah, just, I think, because I had to do everything, also with my left hand, and that was a whole thing as well. It wasn’t just about not being able to speak as much as I wanted to, but also feeling very depressed, but then I just couldn’t do anything. And so it was like it was all all kind of up in the air. But honestly, through NGIs support, that’s probably been my biggest, my biggest, yeah, my biggest Savior.

Bill Gasiamis 21:57
NDIS is the national disability insurance scheme that we have here in Australia. Somebody becomes unwell or disabled, you can apply to have a certain level of care depending on your severity, your challenges, and then from there, those services can be made available to you, opened up to you at no cost, most of the time, or at a very low cost, right?

Larissa Kogan 22:21
Yes, that’s right. And like and I do understand in some other countries, they don’t necessarily have that support. And even in Australia, I think you have to have, it’s really beneficial to have someone advocate for you when you’re getting when they’re working out what NDIS support to give you. And so I was very lucky for me that my aunt was so so forthright and and really advocated for me so so I feel that the level of support I have from NDIS, maybe some other people haven’t gotten as much, just because they didn’t know that they could get it.

Bill Gasiamis 23:04
Navigating the system is always hard, departments and all that stuff’s impossible, especially when you had a stroke, right?

Larissa Kogan 23:11
Yeah, because I, like, I knew exactly what I needed to say and do. And then when I was actually like, Okay, now speak. And I just, I could barely speak.

Bill Gasiamis 23:22
Is your answer? Your biggest fan? Were there some other people that, oh, I’ve also come to the rescue?

Larissa Kogan 23:28
Definitely. There was a few people. My parents, they didn’t live in Sydney. They came down to Sydney every day and saw me in the hospital. My aunt, she was living very close by to me. So she, she came to the hospital every day. A number of friends as well, some that I probably didn’t think I had, like I used to see all that often. They, they came to the hospital all the time. But then other people that I thought were very close to me, I never heard from them again. And so there’s, and, like, initially I was thinking, oh, you know, like, it’s me, like, what have I done.

Larissa Kogan 24:07
I did some more reading into it. And for some people, they there’s something that’s happened in their life that they don’t, they can’t deal with what’s happened with you. And it’s also yeah and, and also, just for some people, it’s like, it’s almost like they, they miss the person that was there previously, and they, they just can’t deal with whatever.

Bill Gasiamis 24:29
They can’t relate to you. Yeah, yeah. They don’t know how to help you, and they don’t know how to what to say and how to be supportive, and they don’t know how to deal with your injuries, yeah, the way you interact with the world now, yeah, and some of them are just rude and naughty and not nice, but they’re very few and far between. We’ll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Larissa Kogan 24:52
Look, I think there’s a whole range of different things, but for me, I realized more than I think. It any other time in my life, I just needed to count on myself. Yeah. And I couldn’t look at sort of getting reassurance or or from other people. I had to get it all from within.

Bill Gasiamis 25:11
So, but you did get reach out for help. So that’s different. Oh, reassurance is different from I specifically need help, yeah, yeah. It helped to fill out a form have a conversation with the doctor. Remember what the doctor said? Yes, etc.

Larissa Kogan 25:27
But definitely, my aunt was very helpful in that regard. But also just the different provide like service providers that I spoke with, they were fantastic, really fantastic.

Bill Gasiamis 25:42
Said, you did a bit of reading. You seem to have picked up a little bit of information from reading different things. Was there some standout books, things that really helped you in the recovery?

Larissa Kogan 25:52
Like a lot of it was just just looking up on Google, just anything related and like, but specifically around young people having a stroke. And then I made it more specific again, looking in Australia, because I find that people in different countries have different levels of support, or different types of support. So it just made sense to just look at Australia first, because that way I knew that they people would be in a similar situation to my own, yeah, but yeah, for a while I was so depressed, because I just, even just to go out to like.

Larissa Kogan 26:29
If I went and got physical therapy, like, by the time I got there, went through the whole physical therapy, came home, I was so exhausted, and then that was my Day and and and because I didn’t, I wasn’t working very much, or even when I was working barely, like I was just thinking when, when’s this all going to get better?

Larissa Kogan 26:52
By speaking with a psychologist, I they, they then, initially, I had a psychologist provided by, I think my my support coordinator through NDIS, she found a psychologist for me, but then I I realized I can actually go out and get my own psychologist, and it can still be paid for by NDIS. And so that was what I did.

Larissa Kogan 27:15
I got my own psychologist, I got my own house cleaner. I got the type of exercise that I wanted to get, not just what was being provided. And I was also, like, a very avid skier, and so I found this at, um, at the entertainment quarter, there’s a, like, a, it’s not a game, but it’s called off piste, and it’s, and they, they do, like skiing services, so like, you actually, you’re on, you’re, it’s like, you’re actually on skis, like the the end, but it’s a machine. Yeah, so sorry.

Larissa Kogan 27:56
I’d say, I’ll say it better. I think it’s, yeah, it’s a machine, but you’re actually looking at a ski resort, and you’re going down the mountain, but you just, you just, and you’re on these skis, and so it’s very It sort of feels like a ski. It’s a ski simulation.

Bill Gasiamis 28:13
It’s like a virtual ski, similar. And you’re holding on to the things you’re you’re standing in a certain way, you’re moving your body, and you’re helping navigate down the path.

Larissa Kogan 28:24
And like, for the most part, something like that is more used by like, like they it would be more for like, elite scares and that kind of thing, or people that are in ski schools and so they can, they can do their their ski training, even when they’re in Sydney and and so I sort of put myself forward saying I’d really like to do this, and it was approved by the NDIS, and I could. And you look at the first videos of me sort of trying to do that. And it was like, I could, I was, it was so hard for me to move. And I was on a, like, a beginners thing, just trying to, I it was really hard to navigate.

Bill Gasiamis 29:13
So then that was part of your physical rehab.

Larissa Kogan 29:17
And then, and I went every Sunday and and by the end I was on, I was on the the the proper sort of level, not just a beginners, yeah, and it was, I loved it. And I was doing the races and all sorts of things. And it was fantastic.

Bill Gasiamis 29:39
I remember being in physical rehab three times a week after I got home from hospital. And it was the craziest thing trying to get to one hour of rehab would be a a half a day or a full day. Oh, yeah, of effort, and then you’d be wiped out, and then you’d come home, and then, if you’re doing that, three days a week, then there goes your entire week. Because, yeah. What are you squeezing stuff in between? Near impossible, right?

Larissa Kogan 30:05
Like, I’ve got no idea how people in countries where they don’t have this level of support, or maybe for people who can’t afford it in other countries, like, whether it has to be, you have to pay for it yourself. It’s, I don’t know how they get through this, because I think a lot of it, I know, was, like my own resilience and wanting to to get better. But if I was had, like, roadblocks like that ahead of me, like, I don’t know how I’d get over it.

Bill Gasiamis 30:39
Yeah. So, so all of the services and support that you’ve received has been able to help you get to this stage. We’re now seven years later. Yeah, was there any other setbacks in that seven year period between, you know, falling out of the hospital bed was the first one, and then getting stitched up and that did you have any other down moments where things were kind of going okay, and then you had a sort of a setback?

Larissa Kogan 31:09
Definitely. I remember I was, this is when I still lived in my two story apartment. Um, some friends invited me out for like a, like, lunch and and as I was about to walk down my stairs, I slipped and bang my head, wow. And I thought, oh, that’s fine. I can get to disc it up. And I I was went down, I got a cab, and then when I was at the restaurant with my friends, I said I felt like my head might have been bleeding, and my friend looked, and she goes, Oh my god, like she was, I think you’re going to need to go and get this stitched up.

Larissa Kogan 31:47
Like I didn’t realize that it was that bad, so that that was probably a really big one. I fell over quite a lot, and that that, for me, was just really embarrassing. And, yeah, yeah. So, like, because I to help, yeah, like, they’d come home and they say, you okay? And I said, I’m fine. Just leave me alone. I just want to get up and move, you know, yeah, but that, I mean that I even this year, I’ve still fallen over sometimes.

Bill Gasiamis 32:22
And when you fall over, because I still do this in my head, like, sometimes I trip, or my left leg hits the step as I’m going up the stairs, and I fall up the stairs. When you fall, do you always? Because this is what I do. What I do is I go, I go like, Oh my god, like my leg is not working. And sometimes when there’s people around me, they’ll go, oh yeah, my leg does that too. Sometimes I make me feel better.

Bill Gasiamis 32:49
And it’s like, oh, I don’t know if it’s, I don’t know if it’s me not paying attention, or if it’s the fatigue that made my leg not go up and fall over. So I’m obviously, I’m always overthinking the incident, rather than, like, just getting up and walking away. I have to go over it in my head.

Larissa Kogan 33:07
No, for me, it’s just, I just want to, like, because I people don’t know you. They’re just, they’re they’re already thinking about something else, like one second after you kept walking. So there’s no, I don’t really see the point in worrying about what other people think. It’s just like, keep going for me. I don’t think it’s so much like fatigue or whatever. It’s just my leg just doesn’t always necessarily move as much as what I want it to like for the these days, um, my rehab, I say rehab. It’s like, I see a personal trainer three times a week, and I was and I have a dog now.

Larissa Kogan 33:52
So, me and my dog go to see the personal trainer together and, like, and we do stuff like running, um, so there’s, like, a lot of running, a lot of weights, and when I, when I was first home after having a stroke. I actually forgot how to run like I knew what it was like if I saw someone running and be like that. You know that that is running, but if you asked me to do that, I, I was like, do I do it like this? Or, how does it work? Like, I couldn’t figure it out. And so I definitely went through a stage where I I just felt really stupid, even though, like, I know I’m not stupid. It’s I felt stupid.

Bill Gasiamis 34:38
You’re hard on yourself. Yeah, very much, even though you’ve had a stroke and you know that your brain’s been damaged and you’ve went through all this stuff.

Larissa Kogan 34:46
Absolutely, because I just wanted to sort of keep going and just get over it. And like, these these days, it’s pretty good, like, I’m working full time. I’m as more acceptance, yeah, but I’m also. So working out, I’m also working for a company that is like so when I started with the company, I didn’t, I didn’t tell anybody about strokes or anything like that. And I was looking on the intranet and and different things came through, like on the feed of the internet. And they have, I realized they had this thing in my company called collectives.

Larissa Kogan 35:26
And so they had, like the LGBTI collective, different collectives, and they also had one called the disability collective. And so I sort of looked at it, and I was like, Oh my God. Like people with different disabilities are part of this collective and and most of the people, I think, had more, like, ADHD kind, kind of things, like neurodiverse, but I thought, you know, stuff this, I’m going to do it, and I’m going to I’m I’m real, and I, and I’m so glad I did, like, after I joined this collective, they did a little piece on ,e, and they just said, oh, you know, this was her situation and but this is where she is now.

Larissa Kogan 36:06
And people who I’ve never met, whatever they they, everyone was just saying, Oh, my God, this is so amazing, and so and I realized that this could actually be a positive thing.

Bill Gasiamis 36:19
Yeah, to realize it.

Larissa Kogan 36:23
For six years.

Bill Gasiamis 36:24
Yeah, that’s fair enough ages for some people to get to that stage and to reach out to other people, to compare notes, to ask questions to, you know, find out where they’re at. And I remember being in a similar situation, you know, but I couldn’t find people that were like that, and I worked for myself, so there was no support services or groups at work or anywhere or anywhere else. So that’s why the podcast exists, because, yeah, needed to create something so that I could have more connection with people who have been through what I’ve been through.

Bill Gasiamis 36:58
My wife doesn’t get it. I don’t want her to really get it. There’s only one way for her to get it, and we don’t want to go down that path. Yeah, yeah. So and this internet was kind of, it seems like it’s changed what you thought about, what other people think about people who have had a stroke, as in.

Larissa Kogan 37:16
Yes, well, it’s also, it’s more about me helping other people realize that there’s more to it. So I and that’s one of the reasons, like with the Stroke Foundation, I was doing a little bit of fundraising, but I I see this as a real chance for me to maybe speak up and and and hopefully get the ball rolling for other people as well, even with work after, after I had had that story posted about me at work, a guy from our Melbourne office, he contacted me just over email, and he said, I’m so glad that you’ve done this. He goes like, I’m not part of the stroke of the disability collective at your at work.

Larissa Kogan 38:03
But he goes, I had a stroke when I was 19, and nobody here knows, and I and I, and I said to him, I said, if you, if you are willing to do it like I think you, I think you should come forward and say something, because it’s if any like my particular company that I work with, they’re so accommodating of things like that.

Bill Gasiamis 38:25
So yeah. I mean, if they’re a big organization, and they’ve got 1000s of people, one in four people, potentially within their organization, may experience a stroke in their lifetime. So absolutely, they’ll have stroke survivors already working there, plus they will have people who haven’t had a stroke while working there? Who will have a stroke?

Bill Gasiamis 38:42
Yeah, absolutely, it’s important for corporations or big organizations to get behind people in every version of health or ill health, right? Because, yeah, people have had heart attacks and cancer and whatever, and it’s just you have to find a way to support your staff, because everyone gets something, and if you don’t well then.

Larissa Kogan 39:03
There was two companies I worked with prior to where I am now, and I didn’t say anything to anybody there about having had a stroke. And I felt like, probably, I felt like it would not work in my favor, to be, to be completely honest. So it was very, it was very lucky. I suppose, in some ways, it was COVID at the time, so, you know, mostly working from home anyway. So the people, I suppose, didn’t really get to know me, but it was, I just felt it was just easier to not say anything and leave it at that.

Bill Gasiamis 39:45
Sometimes it is as well. So yeah, it’s not compulsory to blue to everybody, like I am, like, not everyone needs to know. Some people don’t need to hear about it, and some people it’s not appropriate to tell them.

Larissa Kogan 39:57
So, yeah, absolutely. But I. Think it was it for me, when I was working in these other companies, I literally didn’t think. I didn’t feel that if I was to say anything to somebody, it would, I would not necessarily work in my favor.

Bill Gasiamis 40:14
So yeah, yeah, that’s true. In some organizations, it’s sad but true. They discriminate against people who have had neurological challenges for whatever reason.

Larissa Kogan 40:24
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I’m, I am, but that like where I am now. I’m still, like, I train every day. I’ll train three times a day, three times a week, but I like, I’m always out doing something i I’ll never do, probably CrossFit again. Maybe down the track.

Bill Gasiamis 40:44
Where would you put your fitness on a number? If you were at 10 before the stroke, if your fitness was through the roof, where would you be now on the scale of one to 10.

Larissa Kogan 40:54
I’d say probably a six.

Bill Gasiamis 40:58
I’m not talking about physically capable. I’m talking about, like, fitness, would you still be quite fit and have good cardio?

Larissa Kogan 41:04
Cardio? I don’t think so. Like, even when it comes to things like running now, like short distances, like I can run, but I couldn’t just, you know.

Bill Gasiamis 41:16
Did you do before?

Larissa Kogan 41:19
I was never a marathon runner or anything like that, but like, I could sort of keep going, and now it’s like, but at the end of my training session with my PT, I That’s it. I like, I’m pretty much done.

Bill Gasiamis 41:35
Fair enough. Well, looking back now, How has life changed? Obviously, physically, it’s changed, but also emotionally and mentally, like, where you’re at in that space.

Larissa Kogan 41:45
In some ways, like, it’s actually better I’m, I’m, I’ve, I’ve got so much, like self determination, much more than I realized I ever had before. But I’m also very self confident, and I think in the past, I probably wasn’t, and I had some difficulties, like public speaking and that kind of thing, whereas now I’m like, hold me back. I just I really, like, I want to get out there and talk and and I’m very happy for the focus to be on me and to deal with that.

Bill Gasiamis 42:21
So even though you had, like, I would imagine an athlete’s body back then and now, you’re a little bit shaky on your legs and you fall over and all that, you have more self confidence than you did back then. Absolutely, that’s so strange, but interesting as well, right?

Larissa Kogan 42:39
Yeah, very like I and when I look at like when, when I hear about the different, like people that are younger, that have strokes, like some people feel pain, or they feel cold differently, or things sound different, or whatever. For me, there was never anything like that. But it was just, I was just really unstable, and I could fall over really quickly, and it was, yeah, and so that, that for me, was, like, a real, like, the biggest thing, I think that I just, I didn’t feel like I could always, I was always stable.

Bill Gasiamis 43:17
So you have, you’ve discovered strengths you didn’t know you had before.

Larissa Kogan 43:21
Definitely, definitely, and so like nowadays, I’m, I am, like, I feel really confident about the future, really looking forward to everything that happens next.

Bill Gasiamis 43:35
I love it, yeah, I’m supportive of it. I encourage it. Yeah, I’m just it’s, it’s so strange like before, when you reflect back on your life before, clearly you’re aware now that you had no self confidence, and yes, you had so much more ability, we’ll call it, yeah, yeah, and not that you’re less able now, because seems like you’re still able to do everything you want to do in your own way, different way, like, Do you know where that stemmed from? That lack of confidence? Was it? I don’t know.

Larissa Kogan 44:09
I used to get a lot of anxiety and depression in the past, things like that, and I just figured that was just part of everybody’s daily life, because we’re so busy and we’ve always got so much on but like, I’m doing more now, in some ways, than I was before. I’m also studying and as well as working. So I’m like, I’m doing lots of things, and I just, I just, I’m really, I’m just excited about whatever comes next.

Bill Gasiamis 44:36
I love it. What are you studying? My MBA, far out, that’s a bit of effort.

Larissa Kogan 44:43
Yeah, but it’s all good.

Bill Gasiamis 44:46
Yeah, good on you. Well done. I love it. I know it would also be training your mind to get better, to heal, to create, you know, different neural pathways, etc.

Larissa Kogan 44:58
Absolutely. That Neuroplasticity at the beginning, like I hadn’t, I don’t think I’d even really heard of the word before. And the first kind of doctors that started explaining that to me, they said, like the the biggest part of Neuroplasticity is is going to happen, like in that first year, and then after that, you’ll still see different changes and improvements, but lot slower, but, and it was so true, like I noticed every time my aunt called.

Larissa Kogan 45:29
Every day I had a new thing to tell her, a new, new thing that I had relearnt, that I couldn’t do before, or my finger moved more than what it used to, or something was every day there was something really big happening for me.

Bill Gasiamis 45:44
So you see the stroke as something that’s kind of shaped you in a really meaningful way.

Larissa Kogan 45:49
Yes, 100% Yeah, that’s so good

Bill Gasiamis 45:56
To get there, right? 67 years, but you’re there, and that’s a big, a massive lesson, by the sound of it.

Larissa Kogan 46:02
Yeah, it was. And I think as well, maybe the person I was prior to the stroke was not, I wasn’t as nice.

Bill Gasiamis 46:12
To yourself and others both.

Larissa Kogan 46:14
That yeah, like, so it was in some ways.

Bill Gasiamis 46:21
It’s, you had it in you to be nice, but perhaps you had a different way of thinking about what, whether or not it was necessary to be nice.

Larissa Kogan 46:29
Yeah, yeah. So I’m Yeah. So I think nowadays it’s just, it’s everything’s a lot. It’s very positive.

Bill Gasiamis 46:37
Yeah, were you a little bit hard asked and gung ho, and just get on with it, get the job done and not empathetic? Yeah, yeah. I think many people are like that. I’ve been like that. I mean, I was Go, go, go. I didn’t really pay attention to people’s problems. Or, yeah, especially at work, because I can, you know what, we’re at work, leave your problems at home. Don’t bring them here. I don’t want to know about it. Yeah, a lot of that.

Bill Gasiamis 46:58
Whereas now we tend not to take our problems to work, but we have got permission to go having a shit day, or something bad happened at home or this person. And whether you tell somebody to bring their personal life to work or not, they’re going to bring it anyway. Yeah, of course. And you might as well kind of give somebody three seconds of your time and just kind of give them a sense of, I don’t know, a helpful ear, some understanding a conversation, just to bring them down from that level of stress or anxiety or whatever it is, right?

Bill Gasiamis 47:32
And then, even though they’re not 100% on the job, like we always want our employees to be, apparently, at least they’re better than they were when they arrived to work, and then they can get to work and at least feel productive and have a have some relief for eight hours or whatever, rather than making their life impossible as well while they’re at work. Yeah, there’s just no need for it. But I get it now, but I also didn’t get it before.

Larissa Kogan 48:03
Definitely, yeah, I just, I think the person I was previously, I just didn’t, I felt like I just didn’t have time for other people’s shit. I just, it was, it was, it was all about me, yeah, and it doesn’t need to be like that.

Bill Gasiamis 48:19
Yeah, it’s time for everybody. Isn’t there, especially if the people are looking up to you. You know, that’s what I love about it. Stroke Survivors tend to want to help out other stroke survivors. Heaps, right? And and even in our kind of worst times, when you’re got the least energy, the least finances, you’re the most banged up, your brain’s not working properly, your leg and your arm is not working properly, even then, we somehow seem to find time for other people, which is such a blessing, isn’t it such a gift? 100%

Larissa Kogan 48:55
Yeah, like it’s exactly right.

Bill Gasiamis 48:57
And before too busy, I’m too busy. I haven’t got the time or, yeah, I’m busy.

Larissa Kogan 49:03
Also, like, very busy, but not happy. I just stressed and unhappy, but that always so busy.

Bill Gasiamis 49:12
And now, more happy.

Larissa Kogan 49:16
Yeah, very happy. It’s so weird.

Bill Gasiamis 49:20
So weird, and it’s lovely that you get there, right? And we can actually share this message with other people, listening, especially stroke survivors, who might, who might even be in hospital, right? So it’s the toughest time. It’s terrible. There’s a lot of hard battles to overcome, there’s obstacles, there’s all sorts of challenges, and then after that, there’s this other stage that you can get to that so many people get to, right?

Bill Gasiamis 49:47
And it’s this time here where we’re talking about it, and we’re on a podcast, and we’re about giving, giving hope and inspiration and and just sending a positive vibe. You know, to the rest of the stroke community out there.

Larissa Kogan 50:02
Yeah, absolutely like that. That’s, I guess, for me, one of the reasons I really want to be an advocate for other people going forward as well. Because there’s so many different types of strokes and stroke survivors, like, what, what is like, kind of good for me, it maybe is unacceptable for somebody else. Or maybe what I’m maybe I’m more I’m, I’m, yeah, so maybe what I can do is maybe more than what someone else can do. But it doesn’t, it doesn’t mean we can’t all sort of strive together.

Bill Gasiamis 50:42
We can join. We can go to that event, you know, like your previous events, together. And we can all be different and have different levels of skills and try and reach our personal best.

Larissa Kogan 50:53
And but I, like, I’d love to be able to work with people as well, so to sort of help them realize that what like the best that they can be is still the best.

Bill Gasiamis 51:08
So yeah, with all of the stuff you’ve been through, your new kind of understanding about yourself, your personal belief in yourself has shifted your counseling with all of those positive things that have happened together, is your anxiety at a different stage now has?

Larissa Kogan 51:23
There isn’t any. There’s none. Like, even with things like, like, I could die tomorrow. So I could hopefully.

Bill Gasiamis 51:36
But we all could, absolutely.

Larissa Kogan 51:38
Yeah, whereas, like, if you told me something like that back in the day, like, I, oh, my God, I could, Oh, that’s terrible. And like, yeah. And I see people even, like, I like, friends of mine even, they’re like, You shouldn’t joke about things like that. I was like, if you don’t joke about them, like, what’s the point?

Bill Gasiamis 51:58
We’re almost there once, right?

Larissa Kogan 52:01
So, yeah. And so it’s just, it’s not scary.

Bill Gasiamis 52:05
I hear, I share that sentiment, right? I I know that a lot. I speak about it a fair bit, and I try to, I try to not freak people out about it, but I’m very comfortable in saying, Well, I want to be here tomorrow. Guys, like, don’t worry about it.

Larissa Kogan 52:21
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely. But, um, yeah. I think it’s powerful, yeah. But I think anybody who has maybe had that, like near death, kind of like, you feel like that, because what can’t be It can’t be as bad as that again, yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 52:39
I think what makes it worse is, if you have an experience like that, that’s bad enough, but then if you’ve got a an anxious mind about it as well, yeah, that’s can make like a terrible situation even more worse, right? There’s this saying that I like to to tell people around me when we we there’s a certain person you come across who has an injury, and they’re expecting death from from a scratch, then they’ve twisted their ankle, and they’re expecting death from twisting their ankle, and then they, you know, they had an eye infection, and they’re expecting death and all that.

Bill Gasiamis 53:18
And it’s like, some people die 1000 deaths? Yeah, some people die once, yeah, man, I would not want to be the person who’s dying 1000 deaths my entire life. I’d rather be the person that just goes there once, and it’s done and dusted, even if it’s a long, drawn out, you know, tough battle with whatever, whatever, like, yeah, just once. I’m not doing this whole forever. Oh my gosh. I had a brain scan yesterday, another one, because it’s been since 2016 since I had my last one. So I’ve had one before that as well, after that as well.

Bill Gasiamis 53:59
And I’ve been getting massive headaches lately, and I don’t know why, and they’re just the most crazy headaches. I’ve never had such bad headaches in my entire life, and of course, with my history, yeah, there might just be migraines, but why?

Larissa Kogan 54:16
Like, why risk it? What kind of stroke did you have?

Bill Gasiamis 54:18
I had a hemorrhagic stroke as well. I had a blood vessel as well that I was born with that bled. And the the same thing, I had three bleeds before I ended up having brain surgery to remove the faulty blood vessel. Yeah. And then I’ve been through learning how to walk again and using my left side again, and all that type of stuff as well, and then these headaches, now that they just come out of nowhere, I’m not thinking, Oh, my God, could this be what I’m doing is going let me find out if it is, so we can get onto it. It’s a very different exploration session.

Bill Gasiamis 54:56
I’m not doing it because I’m stressing about it. I’m doing it to be active about. Proactive about it, yeah, yeah. And I’m waiting for the results. But I’m not thinking about, Oh my God, what are the results going to be on Thursday? Yeah, whatever they are, they are. I don’t, yeah, I have no control in that. All I know. What I have control in is not burying my head in the sand and making a decision to say I’m going to go and get checked out and yeah, deal with whatever comes. What else can I do? Absolutely, yeah, I don’t think it’s going to be my last podcast episode. It might. I don’t know.

Larissa Kogan 55:32
Who knows.

Bill Gasiamis 55:36
So look, I really appreciate you reaching out and sharing your story. I love your journey, and I look forward to kind of hearing how it’s going in three and four years from now, that’ll be an amazing thing to follow and witness. And I just wanted to ask you, if you if there are people listening now, what would you say to them, people who had just started their stroke journey, or even the ones that are not moved along, perhaps as much as you have, even though they’ve been on their journey for a little while? Like, what do you want to share with them?

Larissa Kogan 56:12
Don’t give up, like you have to look on the bright side. And, yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you don’t feel that you’ve got the maybe the will to do that at the moment, to start off with, do something like see a doctor, maybe go on medication, something like that. But always look forward it like, know that you can, you can be better than what you currently are.

Bill Gasiamis 56:44
I feel like what you’re saying is people should look for solutions to their problems rather than focus on their problems.

Larissa Kogan 56:49
Yeah, absolutely. And like, I mean, the thing is, when I first had my stroke, I was like, once I was home, I was definitely feeling very down. Didn’t really know how I knew what I wanted to do, but I just didn’t feel like I could physically do it. And yeah, you just, that’s just what you have to do. You have to just keep going. And it does. It does improve.

Bill Gasiamis 57:16
I love it. Larissa, thank you so much for joining me on the point. Thank you. Thank you. I really enjoyed it. What happens when everything you’ve built, your work, your health, your identity, Disappears Overnight. That’s the story we heard today. But more than that, it’s a story about what you find when everything else falls away. Larissa didn’t bounce back right away. She fell she got stitched up, felt hopeless, and then started to rebuild not just her movement, but her confidence, her purpose, her voice. What stood out to you from today’s episode? Share it in the comments.

Bill Gasiamis 57:50
Your insights may be exactly what another stroke survivor needs to hear if you want more support on your own path to recovery. My book, The Unexpected Way That A Stroke Became The Best Thing That Happened. Is available at recoveryafterstroke.com/book, you can also hit the super thanks button on YouTube. Join Patreon, and if this episode hit home, please share it. You never know who needs to hear it today. One conversation can be a turning point, and remember, you don’t need to have all the answers. Just keep moving forward, see you in the next episode.

Outro 58:23
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Outro 58:53
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Outro 59:18
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Outro 59:44
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