Recovery After Stroke

When I asked stroke survivors, “Does ego interfere with your recovery? And if so How do you manage it?” their responses were powerful, honest, and deeply insightful. This simple question opened up a flood of raw emotions and personal stories from survivors who have wrestled with the role of ego in their healing journeys. For some, it’s been a constant struggle; for others, it has shaped the way they approach their recovery. Through their responses, a common theme emerged: finding the balance between pride and humility, and learning how to let go of past identities to focus on the present.

One survivor shared, “Oh my goodness! Yeah, totally! Being used to performing at such a high level, and coming from a family that values pride, I feel like I still have so much to learn about letting go of the things I can’t control. But it’s so hard sometimes!” Despite this, they stay grounded by focusing on gratitude. “I keep thinking, I’m so grateful to be alive, and that’s all that matters.” This mindset shift helps ease the burden of ego and keeps the focus on what truly counts—surviving and thriving.

Another survivor, who was once very athletic, expressed how ego played a major role early on in their recovery. They said, “I thought because I was in such excellent shape, my recovery would be faster. It’s been a hard pill to swallow, but I’ve learned patience, empathy, and grace for my body.” Learning to let go of old expectations and accepting the reality of their new capabilities has been crucial for their mental and emotional well-being.

For some, ego presented itself in the desire to return to their pre-stroke lives as quickly as possible. One survivor remarked, “I just want to be my old self, to walk without my walker, to jump out of bed, and gulp my Diet Coke. Alas, that leads to falls and choking, reminding me of the day my life changed.” In these moments, they are reminded of the need to set new boundaries and redefine what success looks like post-stroke. As another survivor put it, “It’s humbling, but I’ve learned to be grateful for the small wins, even if they come slower than expected.”

Gratitude emerges as a key theme for many survivors when it comes to managing ego. One survivor shared, “When I focus on gratitude, it seems to squash the ego. Hey, I’m alive, and that’s all that matters!” Another echoed this sentiment, stating, “Gratitude is such a game changer for me too.” By focusing on what they’ve gained rather than what they’ve lost, survivors are able to move forward with a more positive outlook.

But ego isn’t always a negative force. One survivor shared how their pride pushed them to try harder, even when it was difficult to ask for help. “For me, ego definitely does get in the way. I’m too proud to ask for help, but it also pushes me to try harder.” This delicate balance between pride and humility is something many survivors struggle with, but it can also serve as a motivator to keep pushing forward in their recovery journey.

Another survivor reflected on how ego manifested as guilt and sadness. They said, “I was the person everyone leaned on before my stroke, and I felt guilt and sadness initially. It wasn’t so much ego, but rather the label I had placed on myself over the years. The stroke changed me so much that I couldn’t be that person anymore. But I’ve learned to set boundaries better, and I’m also better at asking for help.” This shift in mindset has been essential for their emotional healing, allowing them to redefine their role and their value in new ways.

Perhaps one of the most powerful lessons shared comes from a survivor’s husband, who had done significant personal growth before his stroke. His wife shared, “He was an influential and powerful man, physically very capable. But I was so awed by his willingness to let go of how others saw him. He said it was an energy drain to do anything but be with what was and feel how he felt.” This approach allowed him to connect with his true self, the part of him that remained unchanged by the stroke. His ability to embrace the changes in his form and image became the key to his recovery.

In the end, managing ego in stroke recovery is not about erasing pride or ambition, but rather about finding a balance. As one survivor eloquently put it, “There always needs to be a sense of self, but it shouldn’t tilt off balance. You shouldn’t think poorly of yourself or think you are more than others. That balance is key.”

For those still wrestling with their ego during recovery, remember this: You don’t control what happens to you, but you do control how you respond. Focusing on gratitude, accepting your new reality, and setting boundaries are powerful tools in managing ego. At the same time, don’t be afraid to let your pride drive you to work harder—just remember to celebrate the small wins and practice grace along the way.

Support the Show on Patreon

If these episodes have helped you or a loved one in any way, please consider supporting the show through Patreon at patreon.com/recoveryafterstroke. Your support keeps the podcast going and allows me to continue sharing these valuable stories for stroke survivors and their families. Every contribution helps us bring more inspiring stories, helpful insights, and essential resources to those on their recovery journey. Thank you for being a part of our community and for helping make these conversations possible.

Thank you for tuning in. If this resonated with you, feel free to share your thoughts in the comments below. You’re not alone in this journey, and together we can continue to grow, heal, and find meaning in life after stroke. Stay strong, and remember: You’ve got this!

The post Managing Ego in Stroke Recovery: Lessons from Stroke Survivors appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

Be inspired by Pete Rumpel’s holistic recovery journey after a massive stroke. Discover his approach to healing and resilience today!

Support The Recovery After Stroke Podcast Through Patreon

Highlights:

00:00 Pete Rumpel’s Introduction and Initial Stroke Details
04:06 Symptoms and Initial Reactions
07:16 Hospital Experience and Initial Recovery
13:00 Holistic Recovery and Emotional Impact
19:42 Lifestyle Changes and Physical Recovery
41:03 Support System and Community
58:21 Emotional Growth and Listening Skills
1:08:47 Final Thoughts and Advice

Transcript:

Bill Gasiamis 0:00
Hello everyone, and welcome to episode 330, of the Recovery After Stroke Podcast. Today, I’m thrilled to introduce Pete Rumpel, a hemorrhagic stroke survivor who embodies resilience and determination. Pete’s recovery journey is nothing short of inspiring, as he shares how he overcame the physical, emotional and mental challenges of stroke, from adapting to life after a major stroke to embracing a holistic approach to recovery, Pete’s story is filled with lessons on persistence, gratitude and personal growth.

Bill Gasiamis 0:35
Just before we dive into Pete’s journey, I’d like to thank everyone who supports the podcast, if these episodes have brought you hope, insight or encouragement, consider supporting the show on Patreon, at patreon.com/recoveryafterstroke, your support allows me to continue sharing these powerful recovery stories with stroke survivors worldwide. Thank you to all the listeners and supporters, it means so much to me.

Bill Gasiamis 1:05
Pete Rumple, welcome to the podcast.

Pete Rumpel 1:08
Thank you, Bill. It’s great to meet you.

Bill Gasiamis 1:10
It’s great to have you here. Tell me a little bit about what happened to you.

Pete Rumpel 1:15
Well, on December 10 of 2022 I had a massive hemorrhagic stroke, and fortunately, my girlfriend at the time had been a nurse for many years, recognized it, called the people and the first responders who were awesome, and I was thank God I was staying at her place, because it was about 15 minutes away, and it was dramatic. So I’ve been recuperating. I’ve been about 21 months almost to the day, and, you know, I’m just tackling everything I can.

Bill Gasiamis 2:10
Yeah, dramatic. So what caused the bleed? I know there must have been a blood vessel that burst, but what was the underlying cause?

Pete Rumpel 2:20
I had everything, Bill. I recently been divorced, I was in a high-stress job dealing with private equity companies, and I had the kids living with me like it was a stress sandwich and I wasn’t eating right, was definitely drinking too much, and it caught up with me a lot of what you talk about, and made a lot of changes that following day. So we move forward.

Bill Gasiamis 3:03
I call it the perfect storm.

Pete Rumpel 3:05
Yep, I’ve used your vernacular.

Bill Gasiamis 3:08
Yeah, and then it catches up with you, and then you end up in hospital on the day of the hemorrhage. What did you notice? How did it come about, like, what were the symptoms?

Pete Rumpel 3:23
I didn’t really notice anything that day Bill, now that I look back when I’ve heard a lot of what you talked about, it’s clear there were signals for a while when I look back at photos of myself, I’m like ‘Oh God. Like, then all of a sudden, people come out of the woodwork, you know ‘Hey, by the way, you weren’t looking good. And very much similar to you, Bill, I wouldn’t have listened. I was in my own universe, doing my own thing, and you know, got the humbling.

Bill Gasiamis 4:06
Wow, divorce is hard for people always right? And then add that to a really high stress job and the normal parts of life, it’s much, much harder. Had you been the kind of person who had the skills to deal with that much stuff all at once? Or are you just a normal guy who found yourself too far into the deep end and then you had no way out, and you had to use alcohol, for example? Or, you know, how did you find yourself in there?

Bill Gasiamis 4:42
Now, you know they say that the way to boil a frog is to turn up the temperature one degree at a time. The frog doesn’t notice, and then all of a sudden it’s floating like how did you get into that point of life?

Pete Rumpel 4:58
I think, you know, Bill. It’s just like what a lot of the people that I’ve heard discuss it, it kind of, in a way, it sneaks up on you. There were a lot of things that led to it, but they don’t happen in one day. You know, I had been a drinker, but functional, I had a lot of responsibility, and I always, tucked it in as part of my day, but now I started to eat out a lot, I had a lot of pressure. I was doing another thing I hear a lot from the people on your podcast, you know I was focused on me last, do everything else first, and you know that had to change.

Bill Gasiamis 6:12
Yeah, so you’re the person who’s the most important, but you’re the one that’s getting the least care.

Pete Rumpel 6:21
Yes, and I have very good friend of mine out in the west coast, Michael Geller. And he had said time and time again, you know, as much as I like to do different things, I have to take care of number one, or else the rest don’t get taken care of, and I deviated from that, and so I was always surrounded by good people that I could learn from, but I got too far out on my out on my skis, if you will.

Bill Gasiamis 7:01
Who else was around in the family, was there in a family, an extended family? Who else other people that need love, care, support that you were kind of also responsible for at that time?

Pete Rumpel 7:16
Well, my kids, but they’re wrapped up in their stuff. One of my daughters had gone off to college out in Hawaii, the other one was wrapping up high school, my sister was near me, and she is awesome, and she kept telling me ‘Pete, you’ve gotta, you gotta do better, you gotta go the doctor. You’ve gotta do things. I was like ‘I’ll get there. I’ll get there. And, you know, when I went, I went with the bang.

Bill Gasiamis 7:55
So how did you get to hospital? Did somebody, did you get picked up by an ambulance. What was that event like? What actually happened on the day of the incident?

Pete Rumpel 8:07
Yeah Bill, it was a ambulance and my girlfriend at the time, called them to come. I was getting up early as about 4 in the morning, I was going to head home, and they came instead. And I was really lucky that I was at her place, and I was really lucky the hospital was right down the road, and she made the call for me. So it’s basically saved my life.

Bill Gasiamis 8:39
How long did you spend in the hospital?

Pete Rumpel 8:44
A month.

Bill Gasiamis 8:47
What were the deficits you were dealing with?

Pete Rumpel 8:49
It was the right side. So I didn’t have any movement in my arm, totally flaccid. Now I can do stuff fortunately, I couldn’t walk. I was in a wheelchair for almost six months, and that’s getting better, although it’s not pretty, and I’m endeavoring to be a community ambulator, but not there yet, but I’m working on it, and I can walk without a cane and and do stuff. I’ve even did about 15 yards of a run just to see what it looked like, and it was a little scary, but you know, again, I continue to push.

Bill Gasiamis 9:46
We’ll take a quick break here, and we’ll be back shortly with more of Pete’s journey. While you’re here, I want to remind you about my book The Unexpected Way That A Stroke Became The Best Thing That Happened. It’s not just my personal story, it’s a guide to post-traumatic growth after stroke, featuring insights and stories from stroke survivors like Pete, who found ways to rebuild and thrive, whether you’re navigating your own recovery or supporting a loved one who is this book offers hope, practical steps and a roadmap to resilience.

Bill Gasiamis 10:19
You can find it on Amazon by searching for my name, Bill Gasiamis, or head to recoveryafterstroke.com/book, to learn more. Yeah, What’s an ambulator?

Pete Rumpel 10:33
It’s basically like being able to be a walking citizen. They actually time it Bill, so when you’re an ambulator, it basically means you’re walking, and a community ambulator is like being able to walk with traffic lights and stuff, so you can walk efficiently and fast enough to basically mix in the population Bill, and I’m trying to do that so I don’t run the risk of another accident of a different type.

Bill Gasiamis 11:07
I love that somebody made up a formal word like that just for the sake of saying, walking around in your community.

Pete Rumpel 11:18
Absolutely, and there’s a rhyme and reason for all this, right?

Bill Gasiamis 11:21
No doubt.

Pete Rumpel 11:22
It’s just amazing how you have to dig through so much stuff to find the nuggets that that really, really help. And that’s why, again, not to be, you know, too overwhelming here, but so much of what you serve up is so helpful, and it’s been a big part of the recovery.

Bill Gasiamis 11:52
It’s always strange to me when somebody says, this is the added, this is the episode that resonated with me. I often don’t know which ones are going to resonate with who, but they do. I get some weird responses or comments like that about that podcast, and it’s all good from that perspective, but I just don’t, even sometimes I’m interviewing people, a lot of the things don’t resonate with me because I’m a different version of stroke.

Bill Gasiamis 12:24
I live in a different part of the planet, I have a different background. So can I just let people tell the story and then let everyone else find what resonates and then hopefully it helps, right?

Pete Rumpel 12:36
Amen. It’s huge because Bill, there’s so many of them that was first listening to them. I’m like, I’ve never listened to that. Two months later, I’m like, I need that. So it’s really tremendous in the way you break it down, have their transcripts so I can read some before I get there. It’s phenomenal.

Bill Gasiamis 13:00
Right? Awesome. Well, so you’re a very upbeat kind of guy. What’s it like to be your personality, to have your personality, you’re very, you know, happy to engage with people, talk, all that kind of stuff, and then to be sort of struck down with this thing that makes you sit on your butt for the next six months in a wheelchair, but also that month in hospital, what’s it like transitioning from who you normally are to who you became?

Pete Rumpel 13:39
Yeah, Bill, I would say, It’s great question. I would say it took me, just till probably 16 months, to smile and to laugh at all. I was in a very dark place. I always tried to treat everyone well, be empathetic, but really focusing on holistic healing. And it started to resolve. I was so focused on the physical for so long, which I think is natural, at least it was for me, but listening to so much of like you talking about how it changed your life and stroke, being, you know, in a way, a blessing. Man, it takes me, I know you said it too, but it takes me a long time to get stuff in here.

Pete Rumpel 15:00
And wow, what a difference it’s made, and I find now that and again, knock on wood, but I find now that acceleration of recovery seems like it’s happening because you have to have gratitude. You have to think about the whole picture, being thankful, and all those things. And whatever people’s spiritual go to is, and I look at and listen to all of them, it’s awesome and it’s really, it’s coming.

Bill Gasiamis 15:50
Holistic is a word that has different meanings for different people, but to make it simple for everybody to understand, in my opinion, what a holistic recovery includes is the physical, the emotional and the mental. So, you know, for somebody, holistic recovery might include physical therapy, emotional counseling, and it might mean that there is some mental recovery, mental health recovery.

Bill Gasiamis 16:23
So by mental health, what I mean is you get an opportunity to talk to people about the way you think about things, and you get to question how you think about things. So it’s about really going into your thought process and wondering, is my thought process supporting my recovery, or is it getting in the way? That’s the main side of it.

Pete Rumpel 16:47
Amen, and I’m so thankful that you’ve focused so much on that across different podcasts, because that was a big missing link for me once I started understanding that and starting to and, you know, the holistic Bill, I would even, in a way, add spiritual into those three as well.

Bill Gasiamis 17:13
Indeed.

Pete Rumpel 17:13
Because again, it’s just been really therapeutic, really positive.

Bill Gasiamis 17:25
In my emotional recovery is where spiritual recovery lies. So it’s just part of that umbrella.

Pete Rumpel 17:30
Right on.

Bill Gasiamis 17:32
Emotional is part of your heart, right? Mental is your head and your thoughts, physical is your body. So when I talk about emotional, that definitely has that sub category of spiritual there. That’s where spiritual lies, because once you access your version of spiritual recovery come into terms with your perhaps your Creator having let you down, or the universe having let you down, or whatever it is that you go to for some some guidance in those really tough times.

Bill Gasiamis 18:06
Then that enhances recovery, and it enables your head to grapple with what it needs to grapple with. Do you know what I mean? Because they get in the way, each one of them, if you don’t handle the emotional and or the mental they get in the way of recovery, both of those interact with each other, so once your thoughts about recovery change and start to support you, the emotional improves, once your emotional health improves and your spiritual side takes a right, you know, takes a good, sort of positive path, then your mental health improves.

Bill Gasiamis 18:50
So they’re not separate, they’re interlinked, that’s for them. What they both do is they both improve the physical recovery, because if you’re going to the gym three days a week and rehabilitating your leg, but all your thoughts are it’s never going to get better, and your emotional health is really tough, really struggling. Well, then what’s the point of going to the the gym and doing physical exercise for days every week? There’s no point, kind of almost, isn’t it’s counterintuitive, like it’s not counterintuitive, it’s counterproductive.

Pete Rumpel 19:25
Yep, yep. I totally agree, and I totally see how you’re looking at it. Hey, by the way, Bill, is this better on or off?

Bill Gasiamis 19:34
On.

Pete Rumpel 19:36
Okay, there you go.

Bill Gasiamis 19:37
Yeah. Does that light bother you?

Pete Rumpel 19:40
No, no, it’s fine.

Bill Gasiamis 19:42
Cool. What else did you have to deal with when you got out of hospital? So one day you’re working on your separation, your divorce, all the complications of that, you’re at work, working like a very. A committed man to your job, and then everything stops, and then, how does that? How do you grapple with all of the things that stopped while you’re in hospital for a month and then need to be in a wheelchair for six.

Pete Rumpel 20:19
I started doing it one day that time Bill and I was horrible at it, you know, I really was, I was horrible at it. And I just, I was very fortunate, Bill, because if I having my kids was really important, because I was like, am I going to lead by example, or am I going to be foolish, you know what? Crap, and so I said ‘Hey, look, it’s time to figure this out.

Pete Rumpel 21:05
I had been much heavier unhealthy Bill when I was in the hospital, I made a conscious decision to eat enough to survive, and that was it. So in my 30 days, I lost 40 pounds, and have continued to lose since then, I’m kind of set now, but I was over 300 pounds and I’m now 187.

Bill Gasiamis 21:38
Right? What a difference. So you made that decision in hospital.

Pete Rumpel 21:46
Yeah, because I’m like, if I don’t start now, it’s not going to happen, and Bill, listen, I don’t want to come across the wrong way, like I’m definitely a type A personality, but I’ve learned a lot, and I was really up, pardon me saying this, but shits creek, it was really ugly, it was not like, I don’t know how to describe it, but it was, it was tough learn minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day, then week by week. It was not pretty at all, and I’m now, as we talk, you’re hearing a little more of me, but that took 16 to 18 months to get back so and I, a lot of people will thank for.

Bill Gasiamis 22:52
You were 58 when the blood vessel burst up until then, how your health been? Had you spent any time in hospital for anything serious up to that time?

Pete Rumpel 23:04
No, but it was clear, I was getting further away. I used to be an athlete and do things more reg more regularly, but I started having, you know, I just got away from it, and it was a mistake, and one I will not make again, and thank God I have a second chance.

Bill Gasiamis 23:38
Did you have thoughts of mortality ‘I might not be here tomorrow, next week, whatever.

Pete Rumpel 23:45
Yeah, a lot of that, especially Bill in year one, because when you read the stats like as you have definitely hemorrhagic stroke, you know, you lose a lot of people, 25% within the day, almost 50% within a month, and then over 70%, well, 74.3% in the first year.

Pete Rumpel 24:16
Not that I pay attention to the stats, but, that you’ve seen them also, and they continue to change and but needless to say, I’m like ‘What’s the other shoe that could drop? Which is why I went so hardcore on changing things I you know, as I said, I used to really enjoy my drink, I haven’t had anything to drink in almost two years now.

Bill Gasiamis 24:53
Yeah, that’s a good move for anybody, even if somebody wasn’t a big drinker. I mean alcohol and brain health and brain recovery do not go hand in hand.

Pete Rumpel 25:04
Amen, and by the way, again, kudos to you and a number of people that put that out there, and all the focus on Neuroplasticity, it’s phenomenal. And you know, you can get, you can get this thing to work for you if you do the right thing. So I’m trying.

Bill Gasiamis 25:26
Yeah, you gotta create the right environment for it. And if the brain wants to heal and you’re still smoking or you’re still drinking, or you’re eating a high carb diet that includes, you know, heaps of wheat, cereals, sugars and all that kind of stuff, you’re not creating the right environment for healing. So you’re going to take longer to heal your brain. It’s going to take longer for Neuroplasticity to happen, it’s going to take longer for you to overcome the challenges that are ahead of you. So I didn’t want to be that guy.

Bill Gasiamis 25:59
I made the same decision, you know, within maybe six weeks of being at home, that I couldn’t be the guy who gets in the way of my recovery, because I would really hate myself if I did that, and I wanted to be supporting my recovery, and that’s I made the decisions about food and all that kind of stuff very early on as well. Religiously, I avoided anything that was on the do not eat list. And it didn’t matter where I was, who I was with, it would make for some awkward conversations every once in a while, but then, you know, that was okay.

Bill Gasiamis 26:40
I took it as an opportunity to just educate people on my journey, like what I was going through, and not make it about them. It didn’t have to be their journey, it was just my journey, that’s what I have to do to be better. I’ve had a serious, serious scare. I’ve had two brain hemorrhages within six weeks, and I’m not going to I’m not looking forward to the next one, and I’m hoping it’s never going to come, but it still came, and then I had brain surgery, but see, even now, I still, people still struggle with the fact and it’s 12 years since my first bleed.

Bill Gasiamis 27:18
People still struggle with the fact that we’ll go out to dinner and I won’t have alcohol, and when they say ‘What are you drinking? It’s the same every time, it’s soda water. They just don’t, they just can’t wrap their heads around it. And I’m not saying don’t drink your beverage because of me. I don’t do any of that, so I just drink soda water. Guys, just put a wedge of lemon in it, if it makes you feel better, if it makes it look like I’m holding an alcoholic drink.

Pete Rumpel 27:53
But that’s right on Bill, I have people, most of my people are really people that I’ve been around, really supportive. They don’t say anything, and the reality Bill is, I drank them up for three lifetimes, so I really don’t need it anymore, it’s not that it was ever ugly or anything like that, but, you know, I had my fair share. I’ve checked that box.

Bill Gasiamis 28:20
You reached a quota.

Pete Rumpel 28:23
Right on, man.

Bill Gasiamis 28:26
So what’s like? What’s life like now a couple of years down the track, what are you still dealing with? What are you still trying to overcome? And how has life changed?

Pete Rumpel 28:43
Well now, you know, I’m sorry, my, I should have turned that off. Sorry about that Bill.

Bill Gasiamis 28:56
That’s all right.

Pete Rumpel 29:03
I’m living with my sister, which has been wonderful, and get ready to move out onto my own, and focusing a lot Bill on building stamina. So, as you know, and I’ve heard you talk about, you know, when I was first, when I was first recovering, Music Television, everything was like ‘Whoa. And I’m just trying to get back to game speed and I do as many errands as I can, I remember you talking about, no matter what you were doing in a day, you were making sure you were delivering dinner and go get the groceries and do.

Pete Rumpel 30:00
That stuff stuck, I started out doing one thing a day, and now I go out and I’ll do a bunch of errands, I’ve tried to work a couple times, but I haven’t been able to yet, but I’m getting close, and I one thing I’ve also found, Bill, is every time I get a chance, an opportunity to push myself, I do it that that’s not the way I used to be, and I’m so thankful, because there’s so much I end up finding out I would not have known otherwise.

Bill Gasiamis 30:52
It’s feedback.

Pete Rumpel 30:55
Right? And sometimes the feedback is alright, I’m not ready, other times like I couldn’t drive until February of this year. I tried to, but I was like ‘This is dangerous. So in February, I started driving. I was obviously, as many people know, it’s really scary when you first get back to it, and then in April, so three months later, I did a seven hour trip down to the coast and back seven hours, so 14 hours total. And then in July, I went and visited my daughter in Texas.

Pete Rumpel 31:52
That was a 17 hour each way drive, but again, if I don’t try, I don’t know, and I just now I kind of appreciate ‘Okay, let me give it a chance. And if it doesn’t work, I can always cut back, get a hotel, what have you.

Bill Gasiamis 32:22
And go again when you’ve recharged.

Pete Rumpel 32:25
Right on.

Bill Gasiamis 32:27
Yeah, that’s the thing about pushing, sometimes you pay the price because you get to the other side of pushing and you go ‘Oh my god, I went too far, I am wrecked, I cannot function properly anymore. And then you use that time to just recuperate, and then sometimes you push and it’s like ‘Oh my god, like, look how far I’ve come, I’ve gone further than I thought, I’ve managed to do more than I thought, I’m less fatigued than I expected, I’ve recovered quicker. And it is a test that you have to put yourself through every so often.

Bill Gasiamis 33:03
Now, with driving, it’s a little bit different, because I wouldn’t want people to test the distance they can go and get fatigued and find themselves in a really difficult situation driving, right? I wouldn’t want that, but anything else, almost anything else, walking, physical exercise, some kind of exertion, trying to work, anything that, that you know requires you to use head, eyes, ears, all at the same time, you know those multi faceted kind of movements or or physical things, then I think it’s worth going for it.

Bill Gasiamis 33:54
And you can do that letting people know that you’re going to go down a path of testing the boundaries and see where the boundaries are again, so that if you struggle to get there, you can have them sort of help you out of the mess that you found yourself in. And also, if you’re going to have a big recovery day the following day, they know that you’ve planned for, and it’s not going to it’s going to be less dramatic, because what you’re saying is I’m going to go do this push, and then I’ve planned for recovery.

Bill Gasiamis 34:30
I used to have a day of recovery available to me every time I went to the gym. So if I went to the gym in the morning, at the beginning, I’ll be, I would be wiped out for the rest of the day.

Pete Rumpel 34:45
Yep.

Bill Gasiamis 34:46
And I knew that, say, Saturday was my day. I knew that if I went as early as possible, that wipe out ended, say, before the evening on my I recharged my batteries before the evening. So if we had to go to dinner or something, I’d be okay to get them, there was nothing else booked for my entire day. Now, if I went midday or 1pm I would probably be wiped out for the entire day. So a little bit of planning and paying attention to my patterns and understanding how my recovery was coming along.

Bill Gasiamis 35:22
Really allowed me to go to the gym and not feel bad about that not being able to participate in the rest of the day, and then clearly the gym’s helping. So the more I went to the gym, the less my recovery took decreased, because I’m never big weights kind of guy, I don’t do weights. I just push weight, just to act, to activate muscles, and to, you know, release endorphins and to build a little bit of strength, that’s all I’m going for. I’m not doing any of the stuff I used to do as a 21 year old.

Pete Rumpel 35:59
Absolutely, and I gone through the same process. And by the way, Bill, I definitely don’t I truncated a lot of the driving story, I did a lot of work driving. My sister took me to start driving again, and God bless her, because she must have been petrified, and it was, I did a lot of test and learn to get there.

Bill Gasiamis 36:27
Yeah. So it wasn’t day 117, hours.

Pete Rumpel 36:30
No, no way.

Bill Gasiamis 36:33
Yeah, now you must enjoy driving. Were you one of those people who can drive across the country and lap it up?

Pete Rumpel 36:45
Yep, I usually drove people like, I don’t want to drive, I’ll drive.

Bill Gasiamis 36:52
Yeah, 17 hours. So what’s the is that the biggest trip you’ve made.

Pete Rumpel 37:00
Yes since the stroke, yes, yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 37:04
I mean, how many miles is that?

Pete Rumpel 37:08
It’s probably, I think, almost 1000.

Bill Gasiamis 37:17
Yeah, that’s far.

Pete Rumpel 37:19
Yep, yeah, it was far, it was a big test, and I did get a hotel on the way home. So I did all the way there. On the way there, stayed four days, and then did a hotel on the way back. My sister was like ‘You gotta get a hotel, you gotta, you’re gonna need a rest. Sure enough, I got there on fumes, I was ready.

Bill Gasiamis 37:48
Yeah, I remember driving four hours to see a friend of mine probably about three months after my brain surgery, and when I got to his house, I was completely wiped out, it was probably longer that I should it was too long that drive for me. It was too long at the time, but I got there okay and safely, but I was so wiped out when I arrived, it took a lot out of me, I didn’t realize the movement, the focusing, the concentration, all that stuff, how much of an impact that was going to play in my head, I never lost my license, even though I couldn’t walk, feel my left side, all that kind of stuff.

Bill Gasiamis 38:35
For one period of time, I never lost my license. So I was driving pretty much immediately after I got home after brain surgery, which was maybe six weeks after brain surgery, and then the trips were close, you know, they were to the store, that kind of trip. But my left side was really weird, and I have an automatic car, so it helped, if it was a stick shift, I wouldn’t have been able to change the gears or feel the clutch with my left leg, so my left hand would off, would often kind of lose grip. I was holding the stimulus quite well with my right hand.

Bill Gasiamis 39:19
My left hand was doing its job to an extent, but then it would kind of lose grip and let go, and I needed to adjust the way I was handling the steering wheel. So because I thought that I had done enough driving around my suburb and went to the shops a number of times, I thought that it was a good idea to do four hours, and it probably wasn’t at the time, because then I had to spend a couple of days at my friend’s place and then drive back for another four hours, and I was worried about those that trip back, although I was up for it, and I managed it quite well in my mind.

Bill Gasiamis 40:00
I was a little bit uneasy about the fact that I’m going to have to do such another big trip again. Basically, what I’m trying to demonstrate is everyone’s different, and the things that you have to take into consideration are different for everybody, but that was my version of of it. So people considering going back to driving like, like you did get some family members to sit next to you for a little while and freak them out.

Pete Rumpel 40:28
Yeah, I freaked out my daughters too, I would did a little part of a road trip before I was driving to get ready. But yeah, I really leaned on a lot of the people around me, and I was shuttled for a long time before being, you know, it took me 14 months before I was ready to really go after it, because I tried about eight months in, and I was like ‘No way, I’m gonna hurt me and somebody else.

Bill Gasiamis 41:03
Yeah, what was behind the decision to move back into your sister’s place for a little bit.

Pete Rumpel 41:13
Just to have support? I wasn’t ready to do stuff on my own, I was, especially when I got heroes too weak, and my right hand wasn’t usable at all, my right leg was a mess, and I needed healing. And just as you said, Bill, yesterday, I felt really unusually tired, I took that time chilled, said no to a few things I was supposed to do, got up and went and hit his hard today.

Pete Rumpel 42:03
So, we all like start to understand the rhythm, and that’s why I don’t want to come across as, like ‘Whoo. You know, got it beat, no way, there’s a lot of learning left, and I’m just trying to, you know, push as hard as I can.

Bill Gasiamis 42:28
I love what you said there about the rhythm, that’s exactly what I experience is I understand the rhythm, I know what’s coming, and I know what I need to do to overcome it, and everyone gets schooled around me today, I’m saying no to everything ‘You guys do whatever you want. Yeah, my blessing, I’m going to do what I want.

Pete Rumpel 42:28
Love it.

Bill Gasiamis 42:28
Which is nothing, I’m going to sit down on my butt, maybe read, maybe watch TV, maybe listen to some music, and I’m going to do nothing, and I remember going over overseas early on, probably about three or four years after my surgery.

Bill Gasiamis 43:09
And I had told, you know, traveling, air, flights, all that kind of stuff, from Australia to go anywhere is such a hassle. It’s such a long trip. So I remember being out and about and feeling really exhausted, and then saying to my wife ‘You’re doing the city on your own tomorrow, you go and do your thing, and I’m just going to chill out and relax.

Bill Gasiamis 43:31
And she made plans to be out and about and discover things on her own, and that evening, I went to bed really wrecked, but I woke up feeling ready to go, and I said to her ‘Right, what are we doing? What are we gonna go see today? She said ‘I thought you were, you’re, you’re wiped out, you’re not doing anything. I said ‘Yeah, that’s changed, I feel great, we’re going.

Pete Rumpel 43:59
That’s great.

Bill Gasiamis 44:01
You know, so unexpectedly you turn these corners and you’re able to participate in things that you would have been happy to sort of check out of a little earlier.

Bill Gasiamis 44:17
So I hope we’re painting the picture for people that ebbs and flows. Things are never really that predictable, and you just gotta be flexible and adaptable and just go with the flow.

Pete Rumpel 44:33
Yeah, and that, you know, Bill and I again, that’s not easy for a number of us, right? We’re used to pushing, pushing, pushing, but I’ve learned some grace, and I’ll continue to learn and try and get stronger as I go.

Bill Gasiamis 44:55
Yeah, where are you at with work and going? Are you thinking of going back? Is that on your radar?

Pete Rumpel 45:04
Yeah, I think somewhere in the next maybe six months or so, I’ve got to see but I definitely want to go back, and I want to go back in close to the capacity I was in.

Bill Gasiamis 45:30
What does that look like? What kind of work were you doing?

Pete Rumpel 45:35
I was Chief Revenue Officer and in a couple roles, CEO.

Bill Gasiamis 45:42
Right? Big roles.

Pete Rumpel 45:47
So yes, but yeah, and they were big and a lot of responsibility. I’ll probably do a different size, different type, org, but I’m gonna go for it, and by the way, when I first go back Bill, I’m gonna do whatever I can do to add value.

Bill Gasiamis 46:09
Yes.

Pete Rumpel 46:09
And then I’ll figure out where I migrate to and what I can do, and maybe get the kind of place where I can prove myself and move up as I go. But it’s not an ego thing, I’ve gotta get out, prove myself all over again, and then build the track record, if you will.

Bill Gasiamis 46:36
Yeah, well, you could always be a CEO of a not for profit or something.

Pete Rumpel 46:46
Maybe, that, again, I have so much to learn, Bill, and I’m going to put that cap on at the right time, but right now, very focused on recovery, and you know, even having this dialog as you know it, that kind of I couldn’t have done this four months ago, would have been really hard.

Bill Gasiamis 47:13
Really, why?

Pete Rumpel 47:16
Just the stamina of a conversation and focusing and dialoguing, listening all that stuff. Well, I’ve never really been good at listening but, you know, it’s I’m just every opportunity, I’m like ‘Go for it.

Bill Gasiamis 47:40
Yeah. So you really seem to have, like, turned the corner. There’s, clear indicators to you there that you know you’ve, like, really turned the corner, although there’s obviously stuff you’re still dealing with, etc, you’ve made a big leap in the last few months, by the sound of it.

Pete Rumpel 48:00
Yes, definitely, and it’s been again, it’s that acceleration principle Bill, like I remember reading something, I can’t remember the gentleman’s name, and he described that incrementally, the better he got, the More he could take on the faster heal, and that’s right on like, I have a really good friend of mine named JP, he’s down on the coast in Charleston. I just went down and visited him. He goes to the beach every morning, works out, runs, push ups, goes in the water, I did. I walked on the sand while he ran, I got in the water, and at the end of that week, my I felt better and I was stronger.

Pete Rumpel 48:55
And that was only like a week two weeks ago, and he got me in touch with a friend of his, it’s a chiropractor and, Doctor J, and he did these miraculous things, and then my foot that I was dragging on the floor wasn’t dragging post, going and seeing him. So I think a lot of it is, I know I was looking for mere two cures at the beginning, and the reality is, it’s the right thing at the right time, and things kind of come together and just continuing to try and push the pushing is the important part. And you know, like my buddy JP calls it the JP boot camp, and I was in it.

Pete Rumpel 49:58
I was in it for four days, and when, when he went to go to a golf tournament, I was like ‘Relax. But it was all kidding aside, it was amazing. And, you know, there’s, it’s just go, go, go, and that’s what I needed, that’s what I needed at that time.

Bill Gasiamis 50:21
Nothing beats hard work and dedication to your cause, it beats a miracle cure anytime. It takes a bit longer, but it beats a miracle cure anytime.

Pete Rumpel 50:35
Yeah, and surrounded by his friends and some my friends down there, it was an amazing week. And again, Bill, it’s something it could be easy to say, well, let’s do it another time. Let me, come down when I’m better. But he had tremendous grace and let me be me, and pushed and always gave me the chance to opt out, and it was awesome. Things like that make all the difference.

Bill Gasiamis 51:13
They do see that’s that’s accessing and encouraging and supporting your emotional side. We think about hanging out with your best buddy and doing all this crazy stuff like that’s really emotionally uplifting and positive, and you can see like, how much that emotional positivity and connection with other people and all that kind of stuff, how much it helped with your physical recovery.

Pete Rumpel 51:42
Amazing,

Bill Gasiamis 51:45
And your mindset.

Pete Rumpel 51:48
Absolutely and one of your podcasts, I’m forgetting her name right now, I think it was Maddie who talked about having a recovered mindset.

Bill Gasiamis 51:58
Yeah.

Pete Rumpel 51:59
You know, think about you being healed and play that way, and I took that to heart. Man, I was doing the opposite of that before that, and I’m like ‘That’s exactly right, especially with what we’ve learned about how the brain works.

Bill Gasiamis 52:22
I’m already recovered. Sure, I’ve got wounds that I’ve gotta dress, that I’ve gotta heal, that I’ve gotta nurture, but I’m already on the path to recovery. I’m thinking about how I’m going to be more recovered down the track, and focusing on that, rather than focusing on all the problems that stroke has caused, because, man, it causes a ton of them, and for everybody could be different versions of dramatic, you know, so like, you have to think about recovery as something that you are, like you’re embodying recovery, and it doesn’t look a certain way.

Bill Gasiamis 53:04
It’s an attitude, it’s a lifestyle, a recovery lifestyle. You really have to move towards that kind of version of life, and then everything you do is about recovery, you know, not drinking at the pub with your mates on a Saturday night, for me, is about recovery. It’s still about recovery, 12 years on, I don’t want to, I don’t want to, I can’t be out and not be thinking about my recovery while I’m out and letting it slip. Do you know what I mean? I can be doing both, because I’m out, I’m not drinking, that’s part of recovery. I’m connecting with my friends, having a great emotional time.

Bill Gasiamis 53:45
That’s part of my recovery. So you can mold them all together, you can bring them all together, and you can re like, redefine what going out is about. It’s no longer, let’s go out for a drink, it’s about we go out, we connect, we have fun, we laugh, we say dumb stories, we talk about serious things, we experience a meal together, we break bread together, whatever, and then we bring it in. That’s our, that’s my therapy, that’s my recovery. You know, you could turn it into your therapy.

Pete Rumpel 54:24
Right on, right on.

Bill Gasiamis 54:30
Were you ever any good at golf?

Pete Rumpel 54:35
No, is a you know, I just really enjoyed it.

Bill Gasiamis 54:38
Yeah, talking, walking, chatting with your mates.

Pete Rumpel 54:46
Yeah, and just being outside. That was one of the things my buddy JP brought up Bill was getting in the sand with your bare feet connecting, to the earth, and sure enough, it makes a big difference, and it puts a smile on the face as well.

Bill Gasiamis 55:09
Yeah and how was it walking on sand with your balance issues and your walking.

Pete Rumpel 55:18
Good point Bill balance was really, really tough, especially the first 18 months. Now I’m getting better at it, I hit there was a beach we went to that had a dune where I had to go up the dune, down the dune. And, yeah, there were some nervous people watching, and it was great. And by the way, the having you adjust for the sand was very healthy.

Pete Rumpel 55:54
Also for my brain, like you think through it, you gotta walk through it, you’ve gotta, you know, watch your momentum and how you position your body. And by the end of the week, I was really good at it, and it was another check box, you know, another wouldn’t have known that.

Bill Gasiamis 56:16
And it’s a pretty safe place to fall, because it doesn’t ever really hurt when you fall on the sand.

Pete Rumpel 56:21
Amen, and the water’s great, except going from the beach to, like, hip deep, there’s a little challenge there, it’s a little dicey, but then once I get in and I can squat down and, you know, have the sand, I’m all set, but that was great, too.

Bill Gasiamis 56:43
I still feel weird getting out of the beach and walking, you know, the transition between the wet sand and the dry sand, that’s a real interesting kind of thing for my left leg, and the way that it kind of interacts with the pebbles and all the little sharp things that are in the in the sand, and often I’ll lose my balance in that spot, either walking in or walking out, and I’ll end up either falling on the sand or falling in the water.

Bill Gasiamis 57:19
But it’s so but it’s like the right place to fall and do it, try and adjust and do all those things. Because nothing, you know, nothing really goes wrong when you fall on sand or when you fall into one foot of water, it’s still good.

Pete Rumpel 57:39
You’re right a lot better than a lot of the other options, for sure.

Bill Gasiamis 57:44
Yeah, I found myself also in rehab, really lucky that they had a pool with us with in our facility. So when I was in there for a month, I asked ‘Can I please use the pool, because the hard floor of the other surfaces and all that was important to learn to walk on. But I was a little bit concerned with falling and then in the water, in the water was totally safe.

Bill Gasiamis 58:21
So I was doing running up and down the water, or pretending to run up and down the water, and it just, I don’t know, it just kind of changed the way that I viewed the physical part of it was less scary to do that in the first month after not being able to walk.

Pete Rumpel 58:41
Yeah, Bill for me, I was in I did therapy for a physical therapy almost for a year, about a year, and then I, you know, insurance, all that stuff. So I joined a gym here in the US called LA Fitness, and they had a pool. So now I do three aquatics courses a week, and it has made a tremendous difference the pool ‘Oh god, it’s amazing, the pool.

Bill Gasiamis 59:24
Yeah, good in the joints, it’s good because it allows you to float a little bit. It’s safe because you’re not really going to fall and hurt yourself, there’s so many things about it. It’s good, hydrotherapy is awesome. Something worth considering for anyone who’s listening and hasn’t done it yet, see if you can find a good place to go and do some hydrotherapy.

Pete Rumpel 59:47
It’s yeah, and by the way, Bill, there’s a great article I read. It was, I forget who was, it was about a stroke victim survivor who went. It, 23 years without the movement of the arm or the hand, happened to go swimming and got movement, and now he’s starting to unleash amazing I wish I had his name but a mate, 23 years Bill and the water got him going.

Bill Gasiamis 1:00:26
Wow, that’s so cool. Your homework is going to be to find that article and send it across so we can put it in the show notes, so people can ever.

Pete Rumpel 1:00:35
Will do.

Bill Gasiamis 1:00:36
That’s your homework. Tell me a little bit about what was the hardest thing about stroke for you.

Pete Rumpel 1:00:55
The not knowing the amount of I knew was so little Bill, I there are people, and I think, if your background might be entrepreneur, entrepreneurial, I think was.

Bill Gasiamis 1:01:20
A little, yeah, little like that? Yeah, I started my own painting company 20 years ago.

Pete Rumpel 1:01:24
Okay, there you go. People that are like that, oftentimes they impress me like crazy because they just, they go, they they’ve got an idea, they go. That’s less my MO. I’m a paint by numbers type person, and it for me, the little amount that I could read into and be predictive about where I could go was nuts. I mean, it was so like listening, learning again.

Pete Rumpel 1:02:16
This podcast, great example, I learned so much about what was possible, how I need to think, how I need to get over this, because of all the pains of the people went before me, I got to stand on their shoulders, and it’s tremendous, but that was the scariest part for me.

Bill Gasiamis 1:02:44
Being ignorant and having the the idea in your head about what stroke looks like the majority of the population before they have a stroke.

Pete Rumpel 1:02:55
Amen.

Bill Gasiamis 1:02:56
Thinks it looks like this, and it’s always really terrible, and you only ever remember the really bad ones that you came across. You don’t remember about the other stuff, so you’re ignorant, like everybody before you that came and had a stroke and the many people after you, it’s just nuts how ignorant we were. I was the same, and I’d never heard or met anybody that was that had had a stroke, and I just couldn’t bring my head around, trying to.

Bill Gasiamis 1:03:10
At 37 you mean, and then I’m interviewing people and they’re going, I was 19, and then I’m interviewing mums whose child had a stroke, and I was like ‘Oh, I didn’t realize I was that dumb. But okay, I’m ready to learn. So, you know, educate me, and that was my journey as well. It was the same for many stroke survivors I’ve interviewed, it’s that so completely oblivious to what’s going on around you in your community? One in four people will have a stroke in their lifetime, I mean, it’s not a few people that it’s happened to, it’s happened to millions of people.

Pete Rumpel 1:04:13
Yeah, and the amount of the amount of young people is really staggering as well, and you’re absolutely right. I’m definitely a kinder, gentler Pete now.

Bill Gasiamis 1:04:29
It’s amazing how we all become nicer and better than we were before. That’s wonderful.

Pete Rumpel 1:04:38
Right on, right on.

Bill Gasiamis 1:04:44
So I know stroke has taught you heaps, but I’m going to ask you that again, what has stroke taught you? There might be a deeper answer there that you come up with, I don’t know.

Pete Rumpel 1:04:59
I think that big thing, Bill is the thing that immediately pops in my head when you asked was listening and being present in the moment. And I know there are a lot of people that have written about it, and there’s a lot of great stuff out there, but the amount I used to try to multitask and be on to the next thing while I was wrapping up a conversation with someone I don’t do that now, like I want to be all in, I want to understand, I want to know the details, and then when, when I’m done, I’m done, and I want to be in the moment and fully available and on.

Bill Gasiamis 1:06:07
Do you think that version of listening was just as a result of your employment and the kind of work that you’ve done that give me the short version, not the long version? You know, the business think, is very different than one on one emotional think and listening.

Pete Rumpel 1:06:29
You are absolutely right, but I think business think also is what you make of it, and I didn’t do a good job because I’ve had people that have been tremendous role models that I really respect. They listen, they ask really intelligent questions, because they listened, and I didn’t do that, and so I wouldn’t blame it on the business, I would blame it on how I did business, and I needed to improve.

Bill Gasiamis 1:07:12
So you see it as just your perception was ill formed, and you thought that it was still able, you are still able to continue in your role, provide a good outcome. And now you see this space for more listening, even at the that level of responsibility in an organization, it sounds like it’s actually more important to listen than you ever imagined.

Pete Rumpel 1:07:45
It really is, Bill, you sit there, I will sit there, and I’d be like ‘Okay, let me prepare for the six scenarios that could happen here. But then, while I’m doing that, I’m not listening the same way I’ll think I am. I want to be, you know, ego wise? Yeah, of course I’m listening, but if I’m really listening and really grooving with what is being told to me, I’m going to have a better answer and be much more prepared.

Bill Gasiamis 1:08:26
So the ego is taken ahead as well.

Pete Rumpel 1:08:29
The ego’s gone Bill like the ego is useless, ego hurts. It doesn’t help.

Bill Gasiamis 1:08:47
Wow. People are listening to this conversation, maybe they’re listening for the first time, this is the first episode they’ve ever tuned into, or like you, they’re a avid listener. What do you want to tell them?

Pete Rumpel 1:09:17
Feel emotional. Don’t quit, keep pushing so important.

Bill Gasiamis 1:09:37
Words to live by. On that note, thank you for being on the podcast.

Pete Rumpel 1:09:46
Thank you very much, Bill for everything you’ve done.

Bill Gasiamis 1:09:50
Well, that wraps up another inspiring episode of the recovery after stroke podcast. Pete’s story reminds us of the importance of persistence and gratitude and embracing a holistic recovery approach, his ability to adapt, push forward and remain hopeful is a testament to the strength of the human spirit. If this episode has helped or inspired you, please consider supporting the podcast at Patreon, via patreon.com/recoveryafterstroke, every contribution makes it possible to share more stories like Pete’s and provide hope to stroke survivors and their families around the world.

Bill Gasiamis 1:10:29
A big thank you to everyone who supports the show and has left a review on iTunes and Spotify or on YouTube, these reviews are so important to help the show grow. If you haven’t already, please consider leaving a five star rating. Like, comment, share and subscribe to stay updated on future episodes. If you’re a stroke survivor, or you know someone who is and they have a story to share, I’d love to hear from you or them.

Bill Gasiamis 1:11:00
My interviews are relaxed and unscripted, so just come as you are. If you have a product or service related to stroke recovery, consider sponsoring the show or an episode of the show by visiting recovery after stroke.com/contact fill out the details, and I’ll be in touch with you for how we can meet over Zoom, thank you for spending your time with me today. I look forward to seeing you in the next episode.

Intro 1:11:27
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Seven years ago, David Brooks’ life took an unexpected turn. A healthy and active individual, David had never faced any major health concerns until one day at work in Cambridge, UK, when he was struck by something unusual—a cerebellar hemorrhage.

It began with a loud whistling sound in his ear, followed by a strange sensation of being pushed against the wall. David experienced intense vertigo, nausea, and vomiting, classic symptoms of a cerebellar hemorrhage. Unlike the more common strokes that affect speech or movement, a cerebellar hemorrhage primarily impacts balance and coordination, making it more difficult to diagnose.

A cerebellar hemorrhage is a type of stroke that occurs when blood vessels in the cerebellum, the part of the brain responsible for balance and motor control, rupture, leading to bleeding in the brain. This condition can result in serious complications, such as dizziness, difficulty walking, loss of balance, and even coma if left untreated. In David’s case, the hemorrhage was initially misdiagnosed as an inner ear infection, which is not uncommon for strokes in this area of the brain.

Cerebellar hemorrhages account for only a small percentage of all strokes, but they require urgent medical attention due to the delicate nature of the cerebellum’s role in motor functions and coordination. You can also learn more about cerebellar stroke recovery and how survivors regain their life in this interview with Elizabeth Cottone.

After being misdiagnosed at first, David was eventually transferred to a dedicated stroke unit where doctors identified the cerebellar hemorrhage. His treatment involved administering blood thinners to prevent further clotting and reduce the risk of another hemorrhage.

The exact causes of cerebellar hemorrhage can vary, but in David’s case, the root cause was traced back to a supercar racing accident years prior, which had damaged the arteries in his neck. Over time, this injury caused the artery walls to weaken and eventually rupture, leading to the stroke.

Despite the severity of his condition, David’s outlook remained positive throughout his cerebellar hemorrhage recovery. He spent two weeks in the hospital, enduring physical challenges such as severe vertigo and difficulty walking. Through physical therapy and sheer determination, David gradually regained his balance and motor function, particularly in his left hand, which had been severely affected by the hemorrhage.

Recovery time for a cerebellar hemorrhage varies from person to person, depending on the severity of the stroke. For David, the process was slow but steady. It took him nearly two weeks before he could begin walking again, and over the following months, he worked diligently with physical therapists to regain control of his motor functions.

David also faced long-term effects of his cerebellar hemorrhage, such as occasional vertigo and coordination issues, particularly with his left hand. However, his persistence in practicing activities like drumming helped him rewire his brain to compensate for these deficits.

One of the most important aspects of David’s recovery was his ability to maintain a positive attitude. Throughout his journey, David found strength in humor, using it as a coping mechanism to deal with the emotional and physical challenges of his cerebellar hemorrhage. He encourages other stroke survivors to focus on what they can do rather than what they can’t and to take recovery one step at a time.

David’s advice to others is simple yet powerful:

• Don’t freak out. If you’re still here, there’s always a way through to recovery.
• Keep a sense of humor. You can find humor in almost any situation, and it provides relief during tough times.
• Stay positive. Focus on what you can do, and tackle problems in small chunks rather than all at once.
• Find a distraction. Having a hobby or interest helps keep the mind occupied in a positive way. For David, it was working and drumming.

While the recovery process can be long and difficult, David’s journey shows that with perseverance, humor, and a positive outlook, it is possible to reclaim your life after a cerebellar hemorrhage. His story offers hope to others who are recovering from similar conditions and looking for guidance on how to move forward.

If you or someone you know is recovering from a cerebellar hemorrhage, remember that every recovery journey is unique. It’s important to take things one step at a time, seek support, and focus on what’s possible.

You can also learn more about cerebellar stroke recovery and how survivors regain their lives in this interview with Elizabeth Cottone.

David Brooks’ journey after a cerebellar hemorrhage shows how perseverance and targeted therapy can lead to incredible recovery. Learn how he regained his strength and balance.

Support The Recovery After Stroke Podcast Through Patreon

Highlights:

00:00 Introduction – Cerebellar Hemorrhage Recovery
03:25 Hospitalization and Initial Diagnosis
13:34 Cognitive Tests and Hospital Life
20:52 Recovery and Rehabilitation
28:59 Counseling and Personal Reflections
55:00 Dave Brooks’ Coping Mechanisms and Reflections
1:19:58 Reflecting on Mortality and Career Goals
1:27:44 Lessons Learned and Supportive Community
1:31:32 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Transcript:

Bill Gasiamis 0:00
Hello everyone, and welcome to episode 329 of the Recovery After Stroke Podcast. Today, I’m excited to introduce Dave Brooks, a cerebellar stroke survivor whose unique approach to recovery emphasizes humor, positivity and problem-solving. In this episode, Dave shares his journey from the initial shock of his stroke to the resilience he cultivated while dealing with new physical and cognitive challenges. His story is a powerful reminder of the strength found in embracing humor and staying focused on solutions even when faced with adversity.

Bill Gasiamis 0:39
Before we dive into Dave’s journey, I’d like to thank everyone who supports the podcast. If these episodes have provided insight, hope or support in your own life or for someone you love, please consider supporting the show at patreon.com/recoveryafterstroke, your support keeps the podcast going, enabling me to bring you these invaluable stories of recovery and resilience. Thank you to all the listeners and everyone considering becoming a supporter.

Bill Gasiamis 1:12
Dave Brooks, welcome to the podcast.

Dave Brooks 1:15
Hi Bill, great to be here at last. It’s been fantastic.

Bill Gasiamis 1:20
It is good to have you, Dave, tell me a little bit about what happened to you.

Dave Brooks 1:26
So about seven years ago. Now, before I start, I haven’t said this is a bit cathartic for me, because I’m one of those people that looks forward. I don’t look back, I don’t reflect, you know, fix and move on. So it’s a bit, about an hour ago, I was thinking ‘You know what? I haven’t really talked to anybody about this in any sort of detail, what’s happened. So it’s a bit weird for me.

Dave Brooks 1:56
So I’ll go a bit strange, then you’ll know why ‘Okay, I’m not, I’m not emotional about these things, but it’s a so about seven years ago, I’d gone to work, and I was working in Cambridge in the UK, and I just come back off holiday, and you know how all these things are, that there’s a bizarre situation, and I’m sure you’ve heard it many times before. I’ve never been ill, I’ve never been into hospital, you know, apart from things, I’ve broken or, whatever, and I just gone into work, and I just gone to the toilet, and I was sitting on the toilet, you know. So, you know, this is the reality of it.

Dave Brooks 2:42
I was thinking ‘You know what, that fan up there sounds really loud. And it was getting loud, I think, what the hell’s going on? And then I was just sort of like, there was this invisible force trying to push me into, like, push me into the wall, I don’t know what’s going on. The bizarreness of being caught on the toilet and having thinking I have got to get out of here and back to my desk, and there’s like an absolute drive, and I managed to walk back out the office, and it’s like a really weird force, like somebody was pushing me, trying to push me against the wall.

Dave Brooks 3:25
I got to my back to my desk, and died, I’ve known for a long time sitting, you know, he’s working next to me ‘Daddy, are you all right? ‘No, I feel pretty odd. And this guy, his dad, had had TIA about a year, he said ‘I think there’s something going on, I said ‘No, I don’t think so. Because, you know, he talked me about the symptoms, and I said, I don’t think that’s it, and then it was just this incredible vertigo, and I couldn’t get low enough to the ground. Very weird feeling, I was sitting on my desk, and that was too high so, and then I started being very, very nauseous.

Dave Brooks 4:08
So I thought, I’ve gotta go outside, sit outside, and just as soon as I got outside, just couldn’t stop throwing up, just because of the the it wasn’t it’s not a dizziness. It’s a very strange thing, and they didn’t really know what to do, and where I was working in Cambridge was about, probably 10 minutes from Anne Brooks Hospital, which is came it’s a University Hospital, so, you know, it’s well respected.

Dave Brooks 4:41
And I said ‘Look, just call Barbara, my wife, get to come and pick me up and take me home. Because, I thought was something a bit odd going on, and really loud whistling in my ear, you know, and so Barbara came in and she said ‘Just call an ambulance. Why didn’t you call an ambulance? I said ‘No, I just want to go home. I just want to go home.

Bill Gasiamis 5:07
Logic, the logic of women it went ‘Girl, just call an ambulance.

Dave Brooks 5:11
If I go home, I’ll be fine. And the ambulance was there probably within five minutes, the things are different now, and so that I was 61 then, and, you know, I’d never been in, never been into hospital or anything like that, like I should imagine. I have watched a few of the videos on your site. And, you know, I’m hearing you, I hear a similar sort of story. So they got me into hospital again, I just couldn’t stop throwing up. So they gave me an anti genetic injection, sorted that out.

Dave Brooks 5:50
But then, I was on the hospital, the bed, sort of stretcher thing, up on wheels. I said ‘I can’t, I can’t stay here. I’ve got to get on the floor, because everything felt like it was, like, really high up. So the doc, you know, the doctor that was there, said ‘Yeah, that’s fine. You do whatever you want to feel better till we find out what’s going on. They just assumed that it was like some inner ear infection, and I’ve subsequently found out that’s a very common misdiagnosis, which makes a cerebellar stroke incredibly dangerous.

Dave Brooks 6:31
It’s only afterwards you realize that, because it’s not the normal symptoms you get for a stroke, plus, what’s going on. With a stroke, most people, it’s a blank, it’s gone. Even TIAs, it’s gone. But with a similar cerebellar stroke, because of the way, if some reason, you just you’re fully aware what’s going on.

Bill Gasiamis 6:56
Yeah, the brain that’s impact is not not influencing your awareness, it’s not influencing your vision, your speech, the way that your face looks. It doesn’t do any of that because I my stroke, the hemorrhage was near the cerebellum and the second blade that I had were exactly those symptoms. The first bleed I had was the same symptoms, but on a lower scale, I go into hospital, they look at me and they think, this guy’s perfectly well, they have a scan, a scan shows something completely different, and I’m and I’m observing myself and thinking, I’m perfectly fine.

Bill Gasiamis 7:34
Also, I’m walking around the ward, you know, I’m talking to people. I’m meeting people at the cafe. The doctors are going ‘Where are you? What are you doing? And it’s all simply because of the location. And I was as as coherent as I am now the second time, I wasn’t because the bleed was a lot larger, it factored more of the areas of the brain. But vertigo, nausea, vomiting was all all my symptoms, and I describe it as my stroke, not being fast.

Dave Brooks 8:04
Exactly, exactly, and these are only things that you realize afterwards, I don’t, I’m not one for sort of, like, digging into too much research and all this sort of thing. But I did a little bit of, you know, searching around, you know, probably a month or so afterwards, and so they couldn’t fight, they didn’t know what to do with me, really. So I was just, I had to lie on the floor, and I think one of the senior nurses all came in, she said ‘You can’t, you can’t lie on the floor, we can’t have, if any press come in and see you lying on the floor.

Dave Brooks 8:41
This is going to be this, those photographs will go viral. They’ll be all in the newspapers, eventually, they put me just into a regular Ward, and guy came around to see me time, the time sort of moves about, although I remember exactly what happened. It’s sort of like stretch, you know, stretches and compresses. So I think over a period of probably an hour or so, because they didn’t know what to do with me, I guess it sounds like it’s similar with you, until something concrete happens. It’s like you got a problem with a computer or something.

Dave Brooks 9:19
If it’s intermittent, it’s difficult to fix until it goes completely wrong. So they are sitting in a ward, and a guy came round, and he brought a bunch of student doctors around as well, and they said ‘this is David Brooks, he’s 61, I was thinking. Who are they talking about? Who’s this old bloke they’re talking about? Because, we all have a different perception of how old we are. We don’t think I’m not a 61 year old bloke, and I was just thinking, I want to be home.

Dave Brooks 10:02
This was like the middle of the afternoon, I thought they’ll sort something out, and I’ll go home, that’ll be fine. Just wanted to go home, because that’s normality, and then they said ‘No, we’re going to keep you in overnight. And I was thinking ‘Oh, well, I don’t really fancy that. You know, this smacks of being properly ill, and there’s loads of other ill people around you, and I think that ‘Oh no.

Bill Gasiamis 10:27
We’ll take a quick break here and be right back with more of Dave’s story in a moment. While you’re here, I’d like to mention my book ‘The unexpected way that a stroke became the best thing that happened. It’s more than just a personal story. It’s a guide for post traumatic growth after stroke, filled with stories from other stroke survivors like Dave, who found ways to rebuild and thrive after their trauma. You can find it on Amazon or at recoverafterstroke.com/book

Dave Brooks 10:58
So Barbara, sort of like she stayed with me for a while, and then she went back and they again, just assumed it was some sort of weird inner ear infection that was, they kept giving me injections to stop me throwing up, couldn’t walk. I had a couple of interviews with some senior consultants, and they liked my description of how it was. So it was like trying to walk in a very long rowing boat in a rough sea. So you’re trying, it’s not like you’re drunk and you’re just going all over.

Dave Brooks 11:42
It’s sort of like sort of like you’re walking forwards and it’s sort of, it’s going like ‘Whoa, what’s going on? And the next day, guy came around. He said ‘Yeah, we think you’ve had a stroke, but it’s not a normal stroke. He said, to be honest, one of my students suggested it. And I thought, that’s a that’s a good move, you know, I applaud that. One of the students said ‘Do you think it might be a Cerebella stroke? And so he looked into it said ‘Yes. Whip straight after the they’ve got a dedicated stroke unit at Anne Brooks hospital.

Dave Brooks 12:16
Took me in there, and, you know, he knew what was happening. So, it gave me some whole load of blood thinners and some basically, I can’t what it is, it’s like a really strong aspirin, and there’s not much more they can do, and they had no idea what had caused it. I’m not a drinker, don’t really drink, maybe I love it like a beer once a month at the most, I’ve never smoked, I’m not particularly overweight.,I eat reasonably well, and so, they’ve gone through all these questions of various things.

Dave Brooks 12:55
So then that evening I, my wife was came in to visit, and then just I was on the bed, and I just suddenly was just like, just seeing, it’s like, fairy lights absolutely everywhere, and I was obviously doing something which was, freaked her out, but she’s trying to find somebody, and this guy said ‘Oh, I’m not, I’m don’t specialize in this. But look, you know, you’re a doctor, what they didn’t say, which I think was not wrong, but they didn’t say that there’s not much we can do.

Dave Brooks 13:34
We’ve given all the medication, which is blood thinners, and these sort of, like, super aspirins to sort of just make the blood thin so that you’re not going to get a problem, and they didn’t know whether it was a bleed or anything, but they knew it was a cerebellar stroke. So the next day, I was fine, but walking just horrendous, and then I had the head of the stroke unit came in, and he gave me a chat, and then they started doing all the weird tests, cognitive tests, which they don’t, you don’t realize at first you’re being tested.

Dave Brooks 14:16
They’re asking you things like, so to ‘Where do you look? Okay, okay, ‘So what day of the week is it? And then they start doing the because the cerebellum, as you will very well know, is about fine motor control. So if you can’t reach in and touch your nose or something, and it was all my left side, all my left side was just like, all over the place, and I ended up being in hospital for two weeks, but what is really weird, having never been in hospital, first night, I was thinking, I’ll be going home tomorrow.

Dave Brooks 14:55
The next the second thing ‘Oh, no you’re not, you know, you’re not going home tomorrow. So it, another day I think ‘Oh no. By the third day is looking apple pie and custard today, and you think, I’ve been institutionalized in three days flat, and I don’t, I don’t feel I’m that sort of person. It’s very, very weird, and I think I went through CT scans. They didn’t do an MRI scan, they did the CT scan with the really weird injection where you feel like you’ve wet yourself, which I’m not quite sure.

Dave Brooks 15:35
They inject something automatically that’s connected up to it, and that, in itself, becomes a sort of like something that you talk about, you’re in a queue, you know, waiting for something, and somebody said ‘Oh yeah, come in for I’ve had some stents that have gone wrong, and there’s only a young girl that’s sort of saying she was, she was going in for another scan, and I said ‘Have you had a weird injection yet? Yeah, I’ve had the weird injection, it’s really weird.

Bill Gasiamis 16:02
The contrast going into the veins.

Dave Brooks 16:04
Yeah, and it probably took about, I think, something like three or four days before they sai ‘Right, we don’t know what’s there’s there isn’t a bleed. So, you know, with the scans that they’ve done and the cerebellum is difficult to discover things with a CT scan, because there’s loads of bones around here that just block how you look in they eventually did an ultrasound all up my neck, and the guy who was doing it, he said ‘You I could see there was something a bit odd. I said ‘Just tell me, tell me. There’s two. I think there’s two or three, sort of like big arteries run up the back here.

Dave Brooks 16:51
He said ‘Have you had a head injury? No. ‘Well, one of them’s like completely crushed, and the other ones, what badly damaged? What the hell, and it was only when I went, got back to the ward that I realized I used to race super carts, which I did for about okay, it’s a big thing in Australia.

Bill Gasiamis 17:18
It’s huge. Like, it’s a massive support.

Dave Brooks 17:20
It’s fast, and I had an accident at about 100 odd miles an hour, and I flipped forwards, smacked my head, landed on the wheels, broke my shoulder, did my thumb, you know, but adrenaline just right. I’m going out to get to get this fixed, and I mentioned this to the main consultant, he said ‘That will be it. It’s just the way he explained it was, is very simplistic terms that when I was younger. So that was probably 15 years prior to that, 12 years maybe. But the when you damage something like that, when you’re younger, you’re a little bit fitter, that doesn’t really affect anything.

Dave Brooks 18:12
But as you get older, things slow downm your body’s gradually wearing out. That damage like that can suddenly have an effect, and the with it wasn’t even there was no stress or anything at work. I was just sitting on the toilet, and some all went mad.

Bill Gasiamis 18:29
Maybe it was a big toilet session, mate.

Dave Brooks 18:32
Well, I know it sounds a bit crass, but it’s sort of, I find it quite funny. I think so. Reason that I sort of got in touch with you was because, oddly, I was talking to a friend of mine who also had a stroke, but he had a proper bleed, a really bad so I’m also a drummer, I’ve been playing drums for the Donkeys Years, and he’s a friend who’s a guitarist that I’ve played with before, and he had a properly bad stroke, to the point where he’s now still.

Dave Brooks 19:06
If he touches guitar strings with his fingers, he says ‘It’s like razor blades. It’s horrible. So he and I was chatting, I said ‘I was just told in the toilet story. And he said, so he’s obviously looked at your channel at some point, he said ‘You talk to Bill. He says ‘They find it hilarious.

Bill Gasiamis 19:25
That’s right up my alley, mate. That’s awesome and embarrassing, and potentially, you know, it could have been a lot worse. It could be more disgusting than what it ended up being. So it all worked out well.

Dave Brooks 19:40
it’s amazing how your body, given that it’s like something serious is happening, and the fear of embarrassment, of being somebody having to thinking somebody’s going to have to break in here, they’re going to pull me off the toilet in you know, my pants and trousers are down that up, that is not happening. So clearly, there’s some adrenaline and that, you know, the drive, but it’s, I found it’s having done a lot of research on afterwards, I’ve realized that Cerebellar stroke.

Dave Brooks 20:15
It’s a relatively there’s a small percentage of cerebellar strokes, and back then, they were less well understood, and they’re still not that well understood. I’ve watched a couple of channels as an American woman. I can’t remember her name, she’s done some very good descriptions of her cerebellar stroke and how you know it is about the fine you know part of your brain is bringing your arm in like this. The reason for the cerebellum is that it’s actually doing that fine little bit of motor control for you know, when you’re doing various things.

Bill Gasiamis 20:52
Coordination and etc, I remember when you’re telling me about your embarrassment toilet episode, and you don’t want to get you don’t want to be in there when everyone’s coming to rescue you. I’m one one day out of brain surgery, and my left side doesn’t work, I can’t walk at all, and I can’t use my left arm, and I’m in the ward and I need to go to the toilet, and that’s really important, of course, after surgery that people go to the toilet. So the nurses, the doctors, everyone encourages it.

Bill Gasiamis 21:25
They’re always asking, you going to the toilet? And I wasn’t going. I wasn’t going because sometimes motility slows down after a surgery, and they were giving me laxatives. And they were giving me laxatives day one, and then there was nothing happening, and then they were giving me laxatives day two, and then there was nothing happening, and then the laxatives started to kick in. I had the urge, so I pressed the buzzer to get the nurse there, and she was nowhere to be seen.

Bill Gasiamis 21:52
My nurse was busy, right? She would have had a heaps on her plate, and there was no one turning up. And I’m thinking, I’ve got to go to the toilet that I can’t this can’t happen here in the bed, I’ve got to go to the I haven’t been for how many days this could be ugly, you know. And there’s a and there’s a wheelchair next to me, because the family’s been in, they’ve taken me for a drive on the wheelchair, and we’ve gone down to the cafe or whatever over the last few days, and I find myself thinking ‘I’ve got to do this, I’ve got to get in the wheelchair somehow.

Bill Gasiamis 22:26
And it was what you described, like I found some kind of superhuman strength right to use half my body to get into the wheelchair. I’ve got into the wheelchair, and I’ve just wheeled myself into the sliding door. So the sliding door, had I pushed it over? Just wheeled myself past the sliding door. And as I did, the nurse walked in and said ‘What are you doing? I said ‘I’m sorry you didn’t turn up, I had to go to the toilet. It’s happening, and I’ve got to go now. And she’s going ‘Alright, let me help you up.

Bill Gasiamis 22:54
And she helps me up, and then she hasn’t left the room. I said to him ‘Oh, yeah, what are you doing? And she said ‘Oh, I’ve got to stay in, I’ve got to stay with you in case you fall down. I said ‘No, you can’t stay with me, you don’t understand, like I can’t be, I can’t have you in here while I’m going to do what I’m going to do, you have to leave because I cannot leave.

Bill Gasiamis 22:55
She said ‘I’m not allowed to leave. I said ‘You must leave. I had a conversation with her, almost an argument for about what was it seemed like forever, but it was about 30 to 40 seconds. You must leave ‘No, I can’t leave. You must leave. And I said to her ‘Alright, I promise I will not move, I will not do anything other than what I have to do, if just close the door and stand on the other side of the door, please? And she did, and then it was on for young and old.

Dave Brooks 23:52
Yeah, I think it is, I found that straight I think it’s something that happens, probably happens to everybody when you haven’t been in hospital before, and normally, stuff that you do in private, you do in private, and, stuff like that. But I think if you’ve been in hospital for a while, I think some of those inhibitions will go because it’s something that has more often, but I found the difficult one was just walking to the toilet. That was a mission, and they said ‘If you, if you’re going to the toilet, you know, you had to call somebody.

Dave Brooks 24:26
Now, sometimes somebody, people weren’t there, and they said ‘You can’t go by yourself. And I was thinking ‘I’m bloody, and it must have looked so strange. And they then, when I started to get a bit better, probably after the first week, I was sort of okay to get about, and basically, one of the one of the docs, I can’t remember who they, they said ‘If you can walk out of here, go down the corridor, go down the stairs, along the corridor, downstairs, hours and come back up, back to your bed, you can go home.

Dave Brooks 25:03
I was thinking ‘Shouldn’t have told me that, because that was an absolute challenge. And I was getting it was difficult, you know, it, took say, about another week. But I found the difficulty with the whole toilet thing is, I was that first week I was sleeping a lot. I think all this stuff just drains you, not physically, but that drain you get when you’ve done an exam or something, you come out and you, your brain is just sort of like fried, and then when I started, I was coming out of that, and I just, how do I relieve this boredom?

Dave Brooks 25:49
So bored you can’t watch daytime TV, you watch it the first day. Think I can’t do that. I’m looking outside, all these people walking around outside, and down in the light, I think I just want to be out there taking my dog for a walk, you know, that’s what I want, and then you’re thinking ‘Oh, I’ll go to the toilet and clean my teeth, you know, just leave the board and or I’ll just go to the toilet or something like that. And then, like, the end of the day, this nurse came out said ‘We’ve noticed you’re going to the toilet quite a lot. We just want to check.

Dave Brooks 26:21
I think it’s nothing to do with you. I said ‘We need to know why you’re going to the toilet because, as I said, Look ‘I am so bored I will do anything to relieve the border if that means going to the bathroom four times a day to clean my teeth, because I can’t go very far, that’s what I’m going to do. And they put also, they they said ‘You know, if you need to go to the toilet and eat, you know, at night, when the lights are out, you need to call somebody. That was my training time, because there’s only the night staff on so I could actually sort of move about.

Dave Brooks 27:00
They give me some physio things to do, and then that was my goal to sort of like just, I didn’t go down the stairs at night, but I was walking up and down the corridor and making my way back. But the hospital is a very strange place when you’ve not been there before. You know you it was a guy who was at the end, he was quiet during the day, never said anything and suddenly that he, I think he may have come in off the street, because, you know, they tidied him all up, and he was just quiet during the day. And then the lights would go out at 9 or 10 o’clock, and he just starts shouting.

Dave Brooks 27:38
And I think ‘Oh, no, I don’t want to be here, I don’t want to be here. And the guy who was between me and this other like he said ‘He tried to get into bed with me last night. He said ‘When are you going out? I want your bed. There’s some I think humor is a massive thing, you know, you’ve got to see. I think there’s two things. One is, don’t fight stuff. This was talking to a friend about the other day, you know, there may be a load of stuff you can’t do.

Dave Brooks 28:10
I was thinking ‘Will I be able to play the drums again? And I was thinking ‘Well, okay, I can’t really do anything in the left hand, but I’ve always played you can play drums just one handed.

Bill Gasiamis 28:21
You know drummer from Def Leppard that did it.

Dave Brooks 28:25
Exactly, so there is a way around thinking that’ll be okay ‘I can do that, do that. And it’s sort of, I think that, and seeing the humor in situations stops you going nuts. I think it was one of the things I mentioned to you in the early thing, I think pulling your way through something, I’ve never been properly ill before, in the grand scale of things, probably that wasn’t what I went through, could have been quite bad, but it wasn’t. It has not like have a massive heart attack or something, but it’s, it’s up here.

Dave Brooks 28:59
In fact, that’s one of the, one of the physios. Because after I came out hospital, very good, they organized physios. I had whole lot of cognitive tests that I had to do. I couldn’t drive for two months, and one of the also, they brought somebody around. There’s two women came around, one was to talk to my wife separately in the kitchen, which I think was almost like a, it’s almost like a counseling thing. And one was came to talk to me privately at the Conservatory, and they were asking all these questions, like, you know ‘Do you feel like not carrying on?

Dave Brooks 29:39
Well, look, to be honest, wait for you to go, because I’ve got a load of stuff to do, you know. I want to get on with something, because I have to do, I have to be doing something, making something or you know. So I think having that attitude of. I’m going to find a way around this, what can I do, rather than what can’t I do, and all the funny stories about, you know, what’s going on, or just seeing, having, seeing the funny side of it, and like when I was talking to a friend, he was saying, it’s, he found he struggled.

Dave Brooks 30:24
I don’t talk to people about this like I said, I’m a bit, I look forwards not backwards, but I think I tend to deal with things in a way that suits me. I’ve got problems of I’ll go out for a walk with a dog or something, and I don’t internalize it. I think that’s a common thing that people level, particularly at men, I do internalize it. What I’m doing is fathoming out, if I do this, I can do that. If I do this, I can do that, and just logically working through stuff, but not thinking about the whole thing.

Dave Brooks 30:59
It’s like, how do you solve a big problem, how do you how do you eat an elephant, small bites? And I think, there’s times when I felt, you know, thinking ‘Oh, is this going to come back? What’s going to happen? And I’ve got a friend who’s a GP, and he said ‘I said, Well, you know, what can I do? He said ‘Well, to be honest, Dave, you’re not really in the risk group. You know, something else has caused this, and you know, that’s when, that was just before, when I spoke to the consultant.

Dave Brooks 31:33
But the really weird thing is, these cognitive tests they do, and they do it with all the patients in the stroke Ward, which is they’re asking them, and you’ll get some old bloke opposite me, really nice old bloke, probably not much older than me. But he was saying, I’ll say ‘How are you? Finally chat away. And the nurse will come and said ‘Oh, how are you today? ‘Fine. And they say ‘You know what day is it? And he just come out with some random thing. I said ‘Do you know where you are?

Dave Brooks 32:09
And then he showed, she showed him, you know, her little sort of lapel watch on a uniform. He said ‘This is a clue, do you know what’s this? He said ‘It’s the 1927 congressional model, medal first. I think he’s ill, but on the face of it, he’s just sort of like a fairly normal old bloke. So it was interesting being in the stroke unit, because they’re they’re testing you, and I know.

Bill Gasiamis 32:41
You don’t identify as having had a stroke. Still, even though they’ve told you what’s happened, etc, you’re looking around and you’re seeing these different versions of it, and you’re going, I just need to get out of here. I need to go home.

Dave Brooks 32:54
Exactly I did get a lot of so a lot of the time that I’ll get, they’ll ask me, Do you mind if a student comes in and talks to you? And I think possibly was, because, besides a Cerebella stroke, and I sort of know what’s going on, and I can reflect and remember what’s happened, they were asking me questions, which was probably not the response they were getting for some of the other patients in there. So the actual thinking response, yeah, because they don’t remember.

Dave Brooks 33:25
And even very early on, one of the consultants said he came in, he said ‘I’m going to give you three words, and I’m going to come back in an hour, and I expect him. So it’s lemon key ball, and I will never forget them, you know. And whenever he walked past in the ward, I go, never key ball, sort of like they’re not having me like that, but it was you probably been, it sounds like you’ve been through quite a bit more because you’ve had, sort of multiple things. But I sort of saying to a friend, it’s you’ve got to have because I’ve never been ill before.

Dave Brooks 34:11
I always occasionally wondered how I would behave if I was seriously ill, and I’m happy that I behaved the right way. Thinking positive, which is difficult, but thinking ‘Well, I can do this. So before you know, what can I do rather than what can’t I do?

Bill Gasiamis 34:32
One of my problems is like, what are the solutions, rather than what am what are the problems? It’s very the mindset that you have as a default is a really great thing, which a lot of strokes have always struggled with their mindset, because they might be experiencing a version of the stroke that’s far more serious, they may have far more challenges to overcome, and it’s a lot of overwhelm. It’s like, where do I start? And they also have a different way of looking at life and experience.

Bill Gasiamis 35:00
Illness and dealing with trauma and all that kind of stuff. And it’s a very different it’s a very different experience, but one of the people that are on my podcast, who actually come onto the podcast seem to have like that, a solutions focused approach, and they’re cognitively trying to get their head around that they are wrestling with thoughts, ideas. They’re putting it out there, they’re speaking, they’re sharing with other people, they have a lot of things in common. The people that come on the podcast, the people that sit back and listen to the podcast, who are curious.

Bill Gasiamis 35:36
Maybe I’ll be on the podcast one day, or maybe when I’m ready, I’ll reach out. There’s signs that you’re starting to accept this thing and deal with it and find ways around it, adapt, look at ways to still have an awesome life, even though you’re dealing with a lot of drama and problems. So I see a lot of patterns in in in the way that people get to where you’re at some take longer, but you just seem to get there quicker. Is that a reflection of your personality just before stroke anyway? Is that how you tackled life’s challenges?

Bill Gasiamis 36:15
Because I imagine, as a bloke who’s got a partner, you know, stuff’s gone wrong with partners with it may have been family members, work situations. You know, you still, even though you’re mild mannered, right, and you’re just coming across as cool, calm and collected, you still been in life. You’ve had life happen to you. So, it’s how you responded, extension of how you responded to other serious situations in life.

Dave Brooks 36:38
Yes, well, yes. So Barbara, my wife, was excellent, and I didn’t realize a lot of stuff that was going on in the background. She was freaked, and I’m sure you hear that, you know, a lot of the time, she was also hyper vigilant, which was driving me nuts. I said, I want to go and walk the dog. ‘No, no, no, no, I’ll come in with you. ‘No, no, I’ll be fine. Just go over the road. ‘No, no, no, I’ll be so I am not particularly emotional. I mean, I joke that my emotions were surgically removed at birth. It’s not quite true, but I don’t let things get to me too much.

Dave Brooks 37:30
You know, I will blow, there’s an inner monkey that sometimes you can’t keep it down, but most things are just let go by, you know, so, so I think what you were saying is that type of behavior probably leads to not being freaked out. You know, you’re not really changing, there are say that were times when you’re thinking ‘Will I be able to drive again? I can’t, I can’t manage if I can’t drive. You know, I’ve been driving since I was 16 on, you know, mopeds and motorbikes.

Dave Brooks 38:05
So that would be horrendous, but those things I wasn’t until I got much later on, I was thinking ‘Okay, I’m not allowed, because they just don’t let you drive for two months. So I was thinking ‘Oh, that would all right, be okay. And then you start to worry about it. But then you think, well, what could I do instead? So it’s finding alternatives all the time. It’s problems, it’s actually problem solving, which is, you know, I’m a software developer, mainly, and that’s, that’s my job. So it’s sort of, I guess that’s my way of looking at it, don’t let things get to me too much.

Bill Gasiamis 38:44
How long have you been? Sorry, go say that. Finish what you’re saying here, sorry.

Dave Brooks 38:49
I think one of the things I found interesting was when one of the I can’t believe it was a physio, or whether it was one of the women who came around who was doing some sort of cognitive tests or counseling or something. She said ‘You don’t seem to be freaked by this at all. I said ‘Well, I don’t feel freaked so, you know, occasionally, sort of think, you know. And she said ‘That’s what gets most people.

Dave Brooks 39:16
There’s all the physical stuff. It’s true of any sort of more serious illness. It’s up here. If you can crack it up here, that’s a big part of the problem, yeah? So sorry you could not you’re gonna say.

Bill Gasiamis 39:31
It’s okay, yeah, that not getting freaked like, if you can stay cool, calm and collected, if you can just stay calm about the situation, you’re also helping the situation actually. You’re actually making a massive positive you’re creating a massive positive influence on how the situation plays out, even though you’re kind of out of control when something’s happening in your head, but by being calm, you’re not bringing that terror.

Bill Gasiamis 40:02
And you’re not bringing that version of sort of like that unsettledness, into a situation that’s already to potentially, kind of on the brink of being difficult and unsettled.

Dave Brooks 40:17
I was thinking about this today. I was thinking it’s not it’s not about suppressing all these feelings, thinking ‘Well, I’ve got all these things, what’s the solution to that? What’s the solution to that? What’s so that? I think it’s what it sounds like you’re saying. You see, fairly often as people are rationalizing the situation and happy to talk about it, and I think you gotta ask, how long did it take me to get back?

Bill Gasiamis 40:45
I was gonna before we get to that. It’s, it’s about, I think some, I think it’s good if you can be aware of all of the challenges, park them for now, deal with the ones that are most pertinent right now.

Dave Brooks 40:58
Absolutely, yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 40:59
And then, and then when it comes time to break out, get emotional, cry, angry, all of that. Allow that to happen as well. And it’s observe yourself going through that allow it to happen, don’t suppress it. Ride the wave, you know, whatever that looks like, but it’s definitely about picking the right moments for the appropriate response for the situation if you can.

Bill Gasiamis 40:59
And that helps tremendously, getting you through hospital, getting you through a bad day, getting you through a difficult news, it all helps. Waking up with a deficit you don’t know if you’re going to have to live with for the rest of your life. Do you know there’s a right time to deal with all of it, and maybe a right location too? So I like that. What that approach that you’ve got? But does that also mean that people find you kind of difficult to read? Are people always wondering about you thinking this guy should be freaking out more because I would be.

Dave Brooks 42:02
I mean, I find I said to Barbara, don’t tell too many people, not because I didn’t want them to know. But I can’t stand that people coming up saying ‘Oh, how are you? I think I don’t know. I’m scared with things online, you know, it’s sort of and also situation people don’t quite know what to say to you. I will chat to people about this, but I’m not going to broadcast it, you know, unless it’s, you know, because, well, but what? You’ve done, is it, yeah, is sort of quite interesting. One of the things that I found did affect me was, although a cerebellum stroke doesn’t affect your speech necessarily.

Dave Brooks 42:54
I was finding that sometimes when I was talking, I would get like, almost like a my brain wasn’t connected to part of my mouth. So it wasn’t I was standing stupid. I was thinking, you know, that sounds a bit fluffed, and because one of my other things I do is I’ve built drones for about 15 years, I fly drones, I’ve operated with commercially, I still do. I built, I also fly First Person View drones, you know, with the goggles, where you fly through all that stuff. And somebody thought that might have been the cause of it, you head up like this, I said ‘No, that’s just.

Bill Gasiamis 43:41
Well, there is one of those conditions, lumberjack disease, they call it in America.

Dave Brooks 43:46
Okay.

Bill Gasiamis 43:47
Where in that forestry industry back in the old days when they were chopping trees down with the ax and then looking up to see where the tree falls? Interesting, that used to damage the carotid arteries or the vertebral arteries, whichever ones are at the back, always forget, and it used to cause dissections in the arteries, and as a result of that, that would cause a clot and that would cause a stroke, it was very common.

Dave Brooks 44:18
Interesting. So what I did was, I did have a little YouTube channel just about with it. So there’s sort of two types of drones, as the camera drone, you know, the drones that sort of cinematic DGI type drones. And then there’s the FPV stuff, which is, if you take your hands off the sticks, they just fall over, you know, you have to fly them, and it’s all done with the goals. So I’d sort of, I had a bit of a, you know, so it’s a niche with it. Drone stuff is sort of a niche, but this is, like a niche within that niche.

Dave Brooks 44:48
And I’ve done a few YouTube videos, and I thought, You know what, I’m going to try and do something which forces me almost like an exercise, almost like physio. So I started doing things to camera, learning how to read from a teleprompter, which is actually really hard, you know I well, I used to work for a period. I worked for BBC News. I worked with a lot of news readers. When they do it, you realize they are very good at what they do, it’s because they don’t look like they’re staring at the camera like this, and it’s taken a while.

Dave Brooks 45:29
I mean, that’s I’ve carried on doing that because I think it’s almost, it’s like an exercise, really. But I don’t know about you, but all a lot of the tests that I was doing that was given in hospital, like reaching out and trying to touch things I still do in the shower. Every morning I stand there, I’ve got these tiny little tiles all over the bathroom. They are going to touch that cross between those, from here to there, just to make sure that with both hands, that it’s going where I want it to go.

Bill Gasiamis 46:00
That’s a great thing, that’s a great thing to monitor as well.

Dave Brooks 46:05
It’s a measure, it’s a quantitative measure of what’s going on. Because, you can, you can lose things without realizing, sometimes I think you’ve got to be able to do something. But it took me, I went after, after I came out of the hospital, I was doing the physio. I then volunteered to do a subsequent cognitive test at another hospital, which is a little bit closer, because it, you know, I was thinking, you know, gotta do this, and it was all about things like get you to stand on one leg with your arms out, and your eyes shut.

Dave Brooks 46:41
And all the things that are actually quite difficult anyway, and starting at 100 count backwards, taking seven off each time, and all these things. And they give you, at the beginning, they give you a reasonably complicated address, and then after the hour, they say ‘What was that address we gave you? I’ll say ‘Oh, blimey, you know. And I think people would, don’t, would struggle with that anyway. But a lot of what they’re doing is sort of, they’re testing simple things, like, what day of the week is, and all that sort of thing.

Dave Brooks 47:13
But I found that I don’t want to shy away from that stuff, because it is a maybe it’s because my background sort of engineering, it’s sort of, I want to be able to know quantitatively how well I’m doing, but what I was doing, I was really overcompensated to try and make out I was fine. So when they were asking me to do certain tests, I was doing it so fast, you know, just to show, yeah, it’s not problem, anything, draw around this and do this, I think. And I was just, it was too much, I was just not showing off.

Dave Brooks 47:53
But I was overcompensating to make out that actually I was fine, but I wasn’t really things like I’ve always I’ve always run up and down stairs. For some reason, even now, I will run up and down stairs, and it’s probably only in the last two years that I can confidently run downstairs again without holding on to anything. So it’s actually taken quite a long time, and I think probably I’m back to about high 90s in terms of the fixed but there’s just little things that goes but I used, practicing drums and drum rudiments to get my left hand going, because I think can I play drums again?

Dave Brooks 48:38
Which was actually a really good thing to complement the physio exercises that I’ve been given. And now I sort of got bored of playing drums after all those years. Well, it’s mainly all the travel, to be honest, and dealing with awkward people, the actual gigs are fine, but I start to think, should I start playing drums again? But I realized that actually, I’ll be fine to play in a band again, but my left hand doesn’t quite have the definition that it used to.

Bill Gasiamis 49:14
Muscularly.

Dave Brooks 49:16
And it’s like very fine control it. I just can’t do it, and I’ve practiced and practiced and practiced. So if I go into something, so I do something, it will take a couple of goes. It’s almost like it has to rev up. What that one of the consultants told me, thing about the brain is it doesn’t fix itself. If you’ve got a damaged part of your brain anywhere, it doesn’t fix itself.

Dave Brooks 49:44
But what the spare capacity that actually you have to, sort of like, you don’t know you’re doing it, but if you’re practicing doing something the same thing over and over again, your brain is learning new ways or different sort of halves, whatever it is to just sort of relearn how to do that.

Bill Gasiamis 50:08
Plasticity side of it, it’s just literally about applying that particular task to another part of the brand that isn’t damaged, that’s just picking up the slack.

Dave Brooks 50:21
And also, when they were giving me tasks to walk anywhere, stuff like that, I was going really fast, and they were saying, No walking fast, that’s something where you can do easily, because it’s not using mainly using your brain. You have to do things slowly, because that’s where you’re using your brain, it becomes a, sort of like, almost like a, I don’t know how it works, but I was going hell for leather or anything.

Dave Brooks 50:51
Any exercises that the physios gave me, I was just doubling it, you know, which may have been good may have been bad, I don’t know, but I feel fine now, I sort of, I say I’ve talked to my friend about it. I’ve come across somebody else.

Bill Gasiamis 51:07
I reckon you’re trying to convince yourself more than you’re trying to convince them.

Dave Brooks 51:11
Yeah, absolutely it’s like, it’s a self drive thing. It’s not, you know, but there is an element of saying, Look, I’m okay, but it’s almost like you’re overdoing something, you know, to try and prove a point, because you don’t want to feel that you’ve been singled out or ill, basically.

Bill Gasiamis 51:34
Fair enough.

Dave Brooks 51:34
But it’s some, I think now it’s sort of, I’d say it’s like 98-99% fixed.

Bill Gasiamis 51:42
Yeah, I was going to ask you about like, your time from hospital to home and then back to driving and back to work. How did all of that happen? How did it unfold?

Dave Brooks 51:56
So I was in hospital for a couple of weeks. I then had so I couldn’t drive for two months, so I stopped doing any work. I’m freelance contractor, so I can choose to work when I like, and it was after when I could start driving again. That’s when I went back into I had, like, a month or left on that contract. So I went back in and did some stuff, and it was fine. I wasn’t, I was only operating at probably 70, 75% at best. Outwardly, inwardly, I think it was probably less than that.

Dave Brooks 52:39
But you don’t admit it to yourself, you think it’d help you, this would be alright. You know, it’s just trying to be positive about it, and you can’t, I don’t think you can be truly honest. I mean, the main thing, I mean, Barbara was fantastic, did freaked her out, and I think part of trying to show that you’re not as ill as you are, particularly so you don’t freak your kids out, you know. I mean, our kids are they’re older.

Bill Gasiamis 53:06
But pretending things are better than they are so that everyone else stays calm.

Dave Brooks 53:12
But the good thing about having kids is you can train them to have the same sense of humor as you and hate the same things that you do. So, you know, they’ve got a fantastic sense of humor. So, you know, that’s a common thing, that can disguise a lot of the you can overdo that sort of thing, but I think it’s got a fairly dark sense of humor, so that’s fine.

Bill Gasiamis 53:37
Very United Kingdom, isn’t it? It’s very common in that I think part of the world.

Dave Brooks 53:42
I think so, yeah, I think so. I know, having worked in America for a bit for a company, I couldn’t understand British sense of humor, they could not understand sarcasm, and they can’t understand flippancy if you’re flippant about something, they don’t understand well, not all people, but a lot of people in the workplace don’t get they think that if you’re being flippant, you’re not serious about what you’re doing, and there’s a group of us were working now on and off for about a year.

Dave Brooks 54:15
We’re working backwards and boys in various places, and we used to play on that because we thought it’s hilarious.

Bill Gasiamis 54:24
Because you’re so laissez faire about something.

Dave Brooks 54:27
Yeah, well, or just saying something like stupid and trivial or childish, or something like that, and they look at you like you’re completely mad. Anyway, yeah, I think one of the early things I said to you, and when I made originally made contact, was that I think having a sense of humor is is a good scent as a good portion of of recovering because, you know, even like silly situations, like in the people that you’re in the. Bed next to a hospital, there’s just some odd stuff going on.

Dave Brooks 55:04
You know, I used to regularly when some people came into hospital, because I was all wired up because, my blood pressure, don’t know about you, my blood pressure was up at like, 250 over something, at one point, massively high. So I was all wired up for probably most of the time I was in there. But I used to love when people come in and they just sort of like, you know, you sit there, you got all this stuff that I just thought, like, if you go to the toilet, you have to take it off. But I just don’t, like, grab it, rip it off and go.

Dave Brooks 55:38
I had this idea that what I was going to do, but a mother in law, she had a walking frame at one point, and if people came around to the house after they knew it was to go to the door, and with the walking frame, they open the door and then you go, it’s a miracle I can walk. But I was told that probably wasn’t a good idea. But, you know, I think it’s it freaks some people out.

Bill Gasiamis 56:08
I think you gotta laugh about it. I know that it’s harder for some people to laugh about the version of their particular stroke. You have to find the humor, because it is how it breaks those circuits of crappiness that’s going on, all the terrible things that are happening, like you have to be able to find somewhere to laugh and give yourself a bit of relief, a bit of relief from all of the stuff that you’re dealing with that you’re not trained to deal with, that you don’t have the skills to deal with.

Dave Brooks 56:34
You’d never expect to you never expecting it, that’s the thing you know is.

Bill Gasiamis 56:39
I know, and there’s people that go through a lot of pain after stroke, you know, physical pain and all that type of thing. And I get it, I just feel like there is no place for ‘There’s nothing funny about stroke. That comment, I don’t think is helpful to any human being, like, there has to be something funny even about the worst version of the stroke, like there just has to be so that you can get a little bit of reliefs, get some endorphins into your body, and make yourself feel better, even if it’s for 10 seconds or 15 seconds.

Dave Brooks 57:19
I would always argue there’s pretty much humor in anything, sometimes, you may not feel like that, but I think it’s, you know, it’s just bizarre situations. You think this is just ridiculous, you know? But I think it’s, it is about having a sense of humor. Is about being positive, and it’s not big, not not freaking out. But there’s, there’s such easy things to say.

Bill Gasiamis 57:46
Correct.

Dave Brooks 57:47
You know, and I don’t know whether that’s some, you know, just saying that is not enough. No, I don’t think I couldn’t advise people who’ve really had a stroke. Because I say ‘Well, just, you know, have a sense of humor, you know, deal with everything in little bits and just be positive. But it’s like saying to somebody who’s got depression, oh, come on, snap out of it doesn’t work, you know, you have to have a different approach. Yeah, that’s how it works to work.

Bill Gasiamis 58:19
And you drove again, and you’ve got an income still, and you don’t have to worry about the house being taken by the bank, and you haven’t got a medical a list of medical bills. Like, yeah, it’s a completely different, subjective experience that each individual has. Like, each stroke is different and affects people differently, it’s same.

Dave Brooks 58:39
Yeah, in the UK, things have got worse, but haven’t, we don’t have to pay for medical treatment. Well, we do, but we pay, it comes out with.

Bill Gasiamis 58:50
In a way that happens in America, which is really dramatic for some people.

Dave Brooks 58:55
I mean, it’s not perfect here, no.

Bill Gasiamis 58:57
We haven’t got back to how long it took you to get back to driving and all that other stuff.

Dave Brooks 59:07
So, I was driving within two months of coming out hospital. So that would have been, you know, two and a half to to to about three months.

Bill Gasiamis 59:16
Was that a retest?

Dave Brooks 59:19
No, no. Didn’t have to do it. No, you just, you just had to let them know. That was all I had to do. There’s no, I think there are certain medical conditions where you have to have a retest. If I’m honest, if I was having to do a retest, I’ll be thinking.

Bill Gasiamis 59:40
Because you want to know you were a driver, and you want to know where you’re at.

Dave Brooks 59:45
Yeah, exactly, I’m quite happy, if they bring in so you have to retest when you’re 75 or 80, I’ll be thinking, Yeah, that’s a good idea. But so I was back working again. I wasn’t working particularly hard. I was working on a side project as well, which I sort of had to it was a startup thing, I was developing an app for them, and I didn’t really, I sort of got bored with it. So it was actually worked out quite well, but there was some pressure being put on me to carry on. When are you going to be back? When you going to be back? When you give me back?

Dave Brooks 1:00:21
I said ‘Well, I don’t know, you know. And eventually I just backed away from that. I’m still, you know what? In fact, I’m still working with some of those same people on some stuff I’m doing at the moment. But I sort of enjoy work. I don’t consider work-work. Work, for me, is a paid hobby, and I only do things I’m interested in. I’ve only ever done that, I’ve been lucky enough that it’s been reasonably well paid.

Dave Brooks 1:00:50
You know, if something’s not working, I’m not I don’t think anything of just thinking, No, that’s it quitting. I’m not doing that. I only can do this. But it’s, I think, you know, that’s possibly just my same part of my character that keeps me driving forward.

Bill Gasiamis 1:01:11
Yeah, the ‘Not reflecting backwards, well, obviously you’re aware of the past, the things that have you’ve been through, the family’s been through, you’ve gone through the other people you know been through. What you’re saying is you don’t dwell on those.

Dave Brooks 1:01:31
That’s exactly.

Bill Gasiamis 1:01:32
And it sounds like you don’t do a lot of, Why me, kind of questioning, which is never helpful other other than why me? What’s the purpose of this stroke? If you’re doing that, I think that’s helpful. Like, what’s the point? Why did it happen to me? What can I how can I transform this maybe, but you’re not dwelling on the negative side of life.

Dave Brooks 1:01:55
No, I never have, it’s always, I’m pretty positive about things, but I think, you know, that’s easy to say. It’s easy for me to say, and do you know it’s not, it’s not all the time, yeah, but I think that’s quite a difficult thing. I’m not stupid enough to think that could work for everybody. You know, some people say.

Bill Gasiamis 1:02:15
Yeah and I don’t say that for that reason. What I like doing, is kind of just demonstrating the difference in people and, and, and what that might do is that might somebody make somebody curious about, why does Dave do life like that? And I wonder if I could do life like that, and what would be the benefits of doing life like that, and how might that version, in some particular situations, help me.

Bill Gasiamis 1:02:38
That’s kind of like what the podcast is about, it’s about to show the differences 320 episodes so far, like it’s about showing all the different versions of variations, so that people can cherry pick what they want out of a conversation and go, I like what they’ve said. I’m going to take that one thing out of the whole interview.

Dave Brooks 1:02:58
When I was, somebody mentioned your podcast. I thought I’d just go and have a quick look. And there I was saying ‘Oh, that’s quite interesting. Because, there was a few things about Cerebella stroke. There’s obviously some people who are a little bit more serious about things, that’s fine, but I think it’s, I think not dwelling on the past, but learning from the past is a good thing.

Dave Brooks 1:03:29
And because if you just think, like, say ‘Why me? Why did I get this thing? You go around, I think you’re rather than a bloody spiral backwards, you know, it’s that’s just the way I deal with things.

Bill Gasiamis 1:03:43
I quite like that version that’s similar to me, although, you know, I found myself in the trap every so often when things were really bad, physically and mentally, and when my cognition wasn’t the best, I really found myself in the hole and kind of ‘Oh my gosh. Like, I don’t know, what do I do here? I’ve never been here before. How do I handle this? And then it’s like ‘Okay, let’s find the solution. Let’s try and handle it, and let’s get out of it, if we can, and as quickly as possible, counseling, for me, was huge, and for me, counseling was more about that mental gymnastics.

Bill Gasiamis 1:04:22
It’s all about kind of getting, getting my my ideas and my thoughts tested by somebody else, you know, like you, you ‘Oh, yeah, I’ll go for that drive if they want to test my driving. I’m the same ‘Oh, I’ll go for that counseling session so I can have my thoughts and my ideas tested by somebody else, and then I can get a different perspective and a different approach, and then I can take that with me and do something about it or not.

Bill Gasiamis 1:04:56
That’s kind of what was for me that worked. And this is what. Every you said, this is, you know, potentially cathartic for you. This is what every session is for me, this is like a cheap counseling session, and everyone who attends.

Dave Brooks 1:05:11
I’ll send you the bill.

Bill Gasiamis 1:05:12
Yeah, he’s doing me a service they just don’t know about, you know.

Dave Brooks 1:05:16
So the counseling you have, was that something that you was sort of part of some care package, or was it something that you realized you had to sort out for yourself?

Bill Gasiamis 1:05:29
I’m quite intellectual, and I always have been when I was a little kid, when I was teenager, I was always the person that people came to for problem solving, and I didn’t realize that that was a gift that I had personally, and that it was working for other people, and they found the need to ask me questions about how they should go about resolving a potentially challenging situation. And it wasn’t advice like ‘Do this, do that. It was more about like having a conversation. You know what? It was, a Socratic conversation I used to have with people.

Bill Gasiamis 1:06:00
But when you’re 15 and you’ve got no idea what the hell is Socratic conversation is, you find yourself in weird places of not being understood, and people kind of wondering, who is this weirdo? Why is he among us? And I felt like always out of I felt like I was always the the odd one out in groups of people anywhere. And it was more it wasn’t about the fact that I didn’t I got along with everybody because I was quite bubbly and all that kind of stuff, and I could park my Socratic states often enough so that I could just get along with people.

Bill Gasiamis 1:06:39
But it always bugged me as to why I was having conversation with with people, and then they would sometimes gloss over and just kind of fade away and stop the conversation because I was taking it somewhere where they weren’t and I didn’t realize. So I went to counseling when I was 25, and at 25 I haven’t stopped, and it’s actually, is literally now that we’ve kind of had this conversation together, it is to test my thinking and my ideas and the way I go about my life.

Bill Gasiamis 1:07:14
So that I’m not the only one thinking these things and think I’m right all the time or wrong all the time, and I just love it. It’s a completely different version of counseling.

Dave Brooks 1:07:26
Interesting, counseling is something that I would never consider, because I think I have a way of a sec. I don’t, I do internalize it, but it’s almost like I’m, I’m solving those problems. You know ‘This is bad, this is good, this is bad, this is good. I can do that, that’s fine-that’s fine. I don’t think about it, you know, all don’t think about much of the time. I’m pretty shallow. But you know,I’ve always because my my brain is occupied by something, whether it’s building drones or writing software or, whatever it is I have something positive is something.

Dave Brooks 1:07:26
I guess it’s something that I latch on to, that I do, and that’s I use talking about when you’re 14 and 15, I didn’t, you know, like most people At age you hang around with a load of people. There was nobody that I was really friends with, and they’re people I’ve never kept in but I would just bumble along and not think about things too much, which is sort of quite a shallow way of thinking, but it’s actually quite a good way of viewing.

Dave Brooks 1:08:37
Moving on, you’re not concerning yourself with too much sort of crap that’s around you thinking ‘Oh, I can actually go and paint that tank on my motorbike when I get home. You know, it’s something positive.

Bill Gasiamis 1:08:50
It’s local thinking, it’s a good I think an analogy is like it’s local thinking instead of global thinking, right? And most people are dealing with now being inundated with information from all around the planet on a mobile phone, and instead of understanding the issues that are happening in your town, in your suburb, in your city you’re dealing with, and distracted by issues that are happening far, far, far, far away that you have no positive influence over and that is kind of what you’re describing.

Bill Gasiamis 1:09:23
You’re describing locally, addressing and assessing the things that you need to get through your day in a, you know, in a very calm, collected way, solving problems, helping out where you need to help out, fixing the things that need to be fixed, and then moving on to the next part of your day. And that’s kind of me. My method of doing that is your method is being occupied with a task. My method of doing that is communicating, it is talking it out, and tasks I can’t when I’m having a bad emotional or psychological.

Bill Gasiamis 1:09:23
Google response to something, I cannot do a task if my life depended on it. It doesn’t matter what the task is, I just can’t switch that part off to do something to take me out of that space where I’m where I have to cognitively overcome the situation, whatever it is, once I cognitively overcome it, no matter how dramatic it is, and the world could be falling down around me, I’m fine. I can get on with life, because I’ve grappled with it cognitively.

Dave Brooks 1:10:39
So I think I’m sort of a little bit opposite to you, because I think I can’t remember who somebody once said about the amount of news that’s coming in. Somebody once said something like, you can’t know everything, and I think there’s you’ve got to be aware of what’s going on in the world around you, but I sort of think you know if I am feeling bad or trying to work out something, what I like to have to do is something that I’m doing that I’m thinking about.

Dave Brooks 1:11:08
You know, when you’re sort of lying in bed at night, drifting off to sleep, you know, you might be interested in fixing up motorbikes, fixing cars, or even planning on what you’re going to do in the garden or something boring like that, but you’re dreaming, you’re thinking something through, you’re solving a problem. You’re being a maker, which is, you know, maker is a big word these days. People think of it as physically making things, but writing software’s being a maker, doing the gardens, being a maker.

Dave Brooks 1:11:34
And it’s about sort of having some you set yourself a goal, like a project that you’re doing, and that’s thinking, well, how can I get that bit, that bit done? Now, I know I tend to, like, fall into that, and I know that Barbara wall, she’s, you know, when I’m really thinking about stuff, and I’m in that zone, thinking about things, you know, I do get scaling comments about you, just you like a zombie again. It’s because that sort of used to be a problem years ago.

Bill Gasiamis 1:12:17
Yeah, the outwardly appearance doesn’t look like somebody who is perhaps concerned or solving or whatever you you express things physically differently than quote, unquote, other people who look concerned about something they’re trying to overcome or so.

Dave Brooks 1:12:39
Well sometimes I, you know, you know I am like, I can go on to autopilot and respond to somebody talking to me, yeah, but my brain is whizzing away thinking about some other thing, which I think is more important, because I haven’t worked out how to solve this particular problem. But counseling is something I don’t think necessarily I would benefit from, but yeah, occasionally I spoke to people, though.

Bill Gasiamis 1:13:10
Yeah a lot of people say that, and I get it too, right? Because sometimes the sub sessions is like, what the hell was I doing here that session? So I set the parameters very differently when I went to counseling, I didn’t go there with a diagnosis, and I didn’t go there to receive a diagnosis, or to get a diagnosis, or be taught to be told you’re experiencing this, you have this, you have that. I went there as a learning experience, you’re a counselor, you’re older and wiser than me, so I was 25 My counselor was probably in their late 50s when I met her.

Bill Gasiamis 1:13:44
And I’m going to come here and I’m going to tell you my dumb shit, and you’re going to tell me whether I’m right or wrong, and I’m going to learn from you. I’m going to ask you questions, like ‘Why do people because I used to have this thing, people would come up to me just start like, you know, handling me like touching me. And I used to have people who I labeled like touchy feely. They’re very touchy feely, and I don’t know why I’m attracting them, but they’ll come up to me, I’ve never met it before, and they’ll start touching me and hugging me and doing shit.

Bill Gasiamis 1:14:14
And I’m like ‘Why is this happening to me? And I would go and ask questions, not about me specifically at that moment, but I would ask questions about, why would somebody have the ability the confidence to come and do that to me when they don’t know me, etc? And I would perhaps get a hypothesis on the thinking of that person. And then I would, I might go to my counselor and ask questions like, Why does my particular family member behave like that? And then she might give me a hypothesis on that, and that might be, well, that they were born before you.

Bill Gasiamis 1:14:54
They were a single child they had, and she would explain just some things that wouldn’t justify their behavior, but might give it a little bit of background, so that my response then was instead of a reaction, it was a response from knowledge, rather than a reaction from my head going, This guy’s a complete idiot. I’ve got to punch him in the head, and then it enabled me to deal with people differently and give them grace for who they were, rather than get offended for how they behaved.

Dave Brooks 1:15:33
Yeah, I tend to, quite quickly, distance myself from when I was younger. I couldn’t, I wasn’t mature enough to even even verbalize it. But if my stomach told me that there’s something not quite right about this person, I just keep away. You know, it’s just, I’ll go off and do something else. Because when you get a bit older, you’re able to, especially when you’re in business and you’re working with people.

Dave Brooks 1:16:07
Because sometimes, to be professional, you can be work with somebody, I have this thing that you can work with people that you like and are really good. You can work with people that you don’t like and are really good, and you can work with people you don’t like and are terrible, whether they work for you or whether you work for them, and you have to develop a strategy on how you deal with that, because sometimes you can’t just run away.

Dave Brooks 1:16:38
You can’t just live, you know, for whatever, because they might be paying you lots of money or something, so, you know. And when you’re younger, you don’t have, they sort of like, you know, you don’t have the hours of knowing correct how to deal with that. And then you make lots of mistakes along the way. But my default action is ‘No, there’s something you know, doesn’t. It’s not particularly male or female, you know.

Dave Brooks 1:17:06
It’s sort of like you’re thinking, I don’t. It’s something about this, something about this aura here, or something, whatever it is that I don’t quite like, I won’t explore it, I won’t try and solve it, unless I have to, I’m going to walk away.

Bill Gasiamis 1:17:23
I’m out of here, that’s more me. Now, at the beginning, it was my personal life was influencing and bothering my work life, because I was seeing those behaviors in work colleagues and becoming overly confrontational, and I don’t mind the confrontation that doesn’t always go down well, and it’s like trying to trans, trying to trying to occupy both worlds without being a little kid who’s 14 when I meant to be an adult who’s 25 like you know, was trying to grow up in that space.

Bill Gasiamis 1:18:07
So I had my the parameters on on counseling were very were set so that I could walk away a more intelligent person and have more ways to solve the same problems that you solve in the way that you solve them.

Dave Brooks 1:18:25
And I guess when you come across those situations again, you know you’ve got a better understanding of why that is. See, I don’t really want to know why, I think you know, it’s interesting. It’s interesting this conversation, the thing I find I do a lot, which I don’t know whether is clever or just completely childish, in a situation where you can’t just run away, I spend a lot of my time working out how I can irritate this person without them realizing that I’m that I’m doing it deliberately.

Dave Brooks 1:19:00
When you hit on it, you’re thinking, yeah, that’s good, tiny things sometimes, but and then it’s sort of, I think it’s almost like a schoolboy behavior. I think, you know, you have to, you have to have mechanisms to deal with just idiots, because they can make a lot. It doesn’t matter, I say it doesn’t matter whether you work for them or whether they work for you. You know you can be in a professional situation, but, yeah, I think that’s possibly my character, which has given me the ammunition to deal with a situation that wasn’t expecting.

Dave Brooks 1:19:42
So I thought something, I say, this is the first time I’ve really talked about it with somebody in any sort of depth, other than the silly things that happened whilst I was in hospital, when I was walking and planning, I was going to sort of wind people up when they come to the door or anything like that.

Bill Gasiamis 1:19:58
Yeah, relationships get tested during stroke, all kinds of relationships, personal, work ones, etc. And you there’s a lot of stroke survivors who will go, I am not putting up with this anymore. I’ve got too many other things to be dealing with and overcome, and they just pause relationships. They cut relationships off that weren’t working, that they were just being pleasant about or nice about and they just move on.

Dave Brooks 1:20:22
I think when you have touched or been in close to touching your own mortality, you think about things slightly differently. I try not to, because I think I still think I’m going to live forever. But I know I’m not, you know, I’m thinking, how many more years could I be writing software and developing apps and flying drones? I’m thinking, maybe 10-15, years. Well, don’t you know? Well, I’ll be writing software and I’m 80, thinking now, that’s a challenge.

Bill Gasiamis 1:20:30
Yeah, why not?

Dave Brooks 1:20:39
But yeah, well, I think that’s, it’s a goal, but I think it’s not something I’m going to stick to, but I think it’s something where, you know, you sort of, I’m not one for making, you know, making lists of, you know, these are the things I’m going to be doing. Because the way that I think I deal with life is, somebody once explained it to me about how, why, I was sort of like got interested in different things.

Dave Brooks 1:21:25
He said ‘Dave, you’re a bit like a a bloke that’s sort of like bumbling around in a dark room and you can’t see anything, and you sort of go ‘Oh, this feels What’s this over here? This feels quite nice ‘Oh, what’s this over here? Oh, that feels quite nice. And it’s sort of way of just sort of thinking, just moving between things that you find interesting for some reason, you know. And you can never quantify what that reason is, whether it’s work, whether it’s you know. So I like to describe my work as a paid hobby.

Dave Brooks 1:22:02
And I was talking to somebody years ago at a at a wedding, and I was just sort of, I can’t always talk to somebody that I knew and that there’s a woman over the other side of the table says ‘Oh, sorry, I couldn’t help but overhearing. So I think that’s a really good way of dealing with your you know, why do you stick with a job that you hate and people that you don’t like? There’s no reason why you have to stay there. If you have the confidence that you can do something, whatever that is, or learn how to do something, go off and do it.

Dave Brooks 1:22:35
You know you might be well paid, but sometimes you know they’re just golden handcuffs. You know you have to, you know you have to find a way to earn enough money to live. I mean, I’m fortunate, I don’t have a mortgage or anything like that. So, you know, but I could still, you can. We can all do with more money. But I think you know you have to do the things that that satisfy you, for some reason, yeah, particularly people having worked at organizations like the BBC.

Dave Brooks 1:23:04
Where they have final salary pensions, and it’s all like this dick waving contest about how many years service they’ve got. So you know, how much they will get when they retire, and I’m thinking they’ll probably drop dead within a year. What’s the point? You know, just go and do the things that you enjoy.

Bill Gasiamis 1:23:27
I believe in that too. I love that as we wrap up, because I’m really enjoying this, but that’s right, we will need to wrap it up at some stage. But as we do wrap up, let’s talk about the last three questions that I ask everybody, which is, what’s the hardest thing about stroke for you.

Dave Brooks 1:23:54
Probably dealing with how my family are impacted by it children, you don’t want to worry about the same thing, you know, with my wife, Barbara, but because I always felt whatever the situation was, I’ll be able to find a solution, to be able to do something. But it’s how it freaks the people that are close to me. I don’t have a big circle of friends, you know, I’m sort of a bit of a bit of a lone wolf in a way. I think it’s close family that is, they’re the ones that are impacted by, I think, more than I was, I’m going through.

Bill Gasiamis 1:24:37
The fear or maybe losing you.

Dave Brooks 1:24:41
Exactly, yeah, it’s not about, you know, it’s because we’re reasonably close family. Well, very close family, reasonably is the wrong word. But you know, it’s, we’re all fairly, sort of easy going. So when something like this happens, it’s, especially after I was thinking for the kids, I remember, my daughter wrote me up, she said ‘I don’t know what to say, I don’t know what to say. I said ‘Well, I’ll be alright, be fine, you know, in some shape or form, I’ll be alright.

Dave Brooks 1:25:16
You know, I won’t be if I’ve been squished against the, you know, under articulated truck or something. But with this, this is fine, you know, there’ll be some some way through it. So that was difficult to deal with. I was worried more about that than anything else, if I’m honest.

Bill Gasiamis 1:25:34
What has stroke taught you?

Dave Brooks 1:25:39
An interesting one, I’d slightly switch it round to something I touched on earlier, which is very occasionally, I thought about, how would I react if I had some serious illness, and I reacted in the way that I was happy with. So what I have learned is that what I had sort of not planned but vaguely thought about in the past was the way I behaved, you know, in a positive way, and not not let it impact me. So I think I don’t think my character has changed, particularly. I think I one thing I have learned is that I don’t want to live too far from a hospital.

Bill Gasiamis 1:26:46
Yeah, fair enough.

Dave Brooks 1:26:47
I used to my both of my brothers live in the middle of nowhere, and I always thought I want to live in the middle of nowhere. Barbara, no and but now we, you know, when we thought maybe about moving or something like that. I want to be somewhere close to a hospital, preferably a university hospital, that’s not more than half an hour away. Because, yeah, and I would imagine it’s going to be difficult in Australia, because I speak a country.

Bill Gasiamis 1:27:17
Well, it is if you’re in the middle of the country, if you’re living in like the outback ‘Oh my gosh. I’m actually, I was at a Stroke Conference last weekend, and they’re talking about five hours to hospital for somebody who has a stroke in the middle of the Northern Territory.

Dave Brooks 1:27:37
That’s a big proper if that’s a big proper bleed. You know that’s you’re not going to survive that.

Bill Gasiamis 1:27:44
That’s terrible and that they’re one of the things that the challenge about is the people who live there typically are annoyed with the fact that takes five hours to get to a hospital, right? And that’s fair enough. And then the government, from a government’s perspective, the government would say ‘Well, there’s only 100,000 people living in there, we can’t have a hospital the size of the one in Melbourne that services 5 million people, and it can’t have all the machines and all the buttons that go ping like they just can’t do that. And that’s the challenge that people face.

Bill Gasiamis 1:28:20
But I agree with you, I am very happy that I was able to drive to at least in my like where I live, there’s a hospital five minutes away, and then the central business district where I was working, when the second bleed when the third bleed happened, I was probably a kilometer from the hospital. So I reckon that’s a very good thing to aim for, to be close to hospital.

Dave Brooks 1:28:48
Yeah, and I think that’s something you own that only really crosses your mind when you’ve like, say you’ve touched your mortality. You know it’s just been practical.

Bill Gasiamis 1:29:03
Practical, yeah, I like it.

Dave Brooks 1:29:05
Which is, you know, but it saves your life.

Bill Gasiamis 1:29:11
Very good outcome, and then I would like to know there’s other people listening. They’re going through our journey, there might be at a different stage of it, something more dramatic, less whatever the stroke survivors. What would you like to say to them?

Dave Brooks 1:29:32
Sort of all the things that I’ve said previously, which are easy to say, and I found I could deal with them that way, but I can well imagine, for other people, it’s difficult, you know, the sense of humor thing is a good thing, being positive and just dealing with everything, just, you know, shelve the stuff. You can’t solve everything all in one go, but what you can do is.

Dave Brooks 1:30:00
Like, as you said, you deal with the serious stuff ‘Will I be able to do that? Will I be able to do that? And sort of, like, not forgetting about it, you know, you can’t just bury it. But I think, you know, just deal with it as positively as you can. And I think, you know, having, having the family around is a big thing. You know, I really feel for people that have had strokes and they’re maybe in off the street or something like that, which is or for whatever reason, they don’t have close family.

Bill Gasiamis 1:30:33
You need to build a community for sure. You need to have friends or family, someone that you can call on, you know, receive a plate of food, of from or lend an ear. You know, have somebody lend an ear to you like you need to create a supportive community around you. If you haven’t got one, that’s probably a priority.

Dave Brooks 1:30:54
So, I’ve never really talked about this with a wife, yeah, or anybody, because it’s not, I didn’t, it’s not a not. I didn’t see the point. But it didn’t, sort of, we’ve touched on sort of things, of course, but I think it’s, you know, that’s my nature. But I think for other people, who like to talk about things, if that’s the thing that solves it or helps them deal with those problems, that type of problem, then that’s good. You know, you’ve got to go with what works for you, fundamentally.

Bill Gasiamis 1:31:32
Dave Brooks, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast.

Dave Brooks 1:31:36
It’s been like, I say, it’s been very cathartic, because it’s not something I’ve particularly thought about, so it’s actually been, I think, a really good session. It’s fantastic to meet you and see that you’re doing so well. The podcast is doing very well as well. And it’s, you know, I’d imagine in Australia, where you’re doing sort of live events and those sorts of things that would imagine, these also, like counseling, because you’re speaking to so many people.

Bill Gasiamis 1:32:07
Indeed, I’m a counseling aficionado, what can I say, I just go and get it anywhere I can, wherever I can, but thank you, mate. I really appreciate it.

Dave Brooks 1:32:22
It’s been fantastic, and yeah, great to meet you.

Bill Gasiamis 1:32:27
Well, that brings us to the end of another episode. Dave’s journey is a testament to the power of humor and resilience and the importance of taking things one step at a time, his ability to stay grounded and focused on what he can do rather than what he can’t is truly inspiring. If this episode has helped you in any way, or if the podcast has been a source of support for your recovery journey, please consider supporting us at Patreon by going to patreon.com/recoveryafterstroke.

Bill Gasiamis 1:33:01
Your support allows us to keep sharing stories like Dave’s with stroke survivors and caregivers worldwide, making a real difference. Thank you to everyone who has left a review on iTunes or Spotify your feedback, helps others find the show and builds a community of encouragement and strength. If you haven’t yet, please consider leaving a five star review or sharing your thoughts in the comments on the YouTube channel, it truly means a lot. Thank you for joining me today, and I look forward to seeing you in the next episode.

Intro 1:33:35
Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals. Opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast are the individuals own experience, and we do not necessarily share the same opinion, nor do we recommend any treatment protocol. Discussed all content on this website and any linked blog, podcast or video material controlled this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only, and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis.

Intro 1:34:05
The content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice. The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries circumstances or health objectives. Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.

Intro 1:34:30
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Intro 1:34:56
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The post David Brook’s Inspiring Journey of Overcoming a Cerebellar Hemorrhage appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

Alina Gonzales’s stroke recovery story is one of patience, progress, and resilience, inspiring stroke survivors to keep pushing forward.

Support The Recovery After Stroke Through Patreon

Highlights:

00:00 Alina Gonzales’ Introduction and Recovery Journey
02:29 Alina’s Stroke Experience and Initial Deficits
04:36 Progress and Challenges in Recovery
07:37 Community Support and Participation
11:41 Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy and Its Impact
17:00 Daily Life and Adaptations
22:36 Coping with Stroke and Future Goals
33:08 Support System and Gratitude
34:33 Final Thoughts and Encouragement
43:06 Closing Remarks and Resources

Transcript:

Bill Gasiamis 0:00
For those of you who have found relief, encouragement, or simply benefited from the recovery after stroke podcast, I’ve just recently set up a Patreon page to help keep the podcast running. Since 2017 I’ve been covering all the costs myself, but now I’m reaching out to our amazing community for a bit of support. If this podcast has helped you on your recovery journey, joining our Patreon is a way to give back and ensure it stays available for others who need it.

Bill Gasiamis 0:32
Your support will help cover the costs of recording, editing, and hosting, so we can keep bringing you the content that’s made a difference in your life. It also supports the transcription of episodes into subtitles on YouTube, making the podcast accessible to listeners with hearing challenges. Memberships start at just $6 per month. If you’d like to support the podcast, head over to patreon.com/recoveryafterstroke. Your help makes a big difference and I’m so grateful for your support. Thank you.

Bill Gasiamis 1:07
Now this is episode 328, and my guest today is Alina Gonzales, who has appeared on the podcast in the past. Alina is a resilient stroke survivor who has made a significant stride in her recovery journey. Since we last spoke, Alina’s story highlights the realities of stroke recovery, from the challenges of rehabilitation to the power of community support. With unwavering determination, she’s made incredible progress in areas like communication and mobility. Join us as we explore Alina’s inspiring journey and her message of hope for stroke survivors everywhere.

Bill Gasiamis 1:46
Alina Gonzales, welcome back to the podcast.

Alina Gonzales 1:49
Thank you.

Bill Gasiamis 1:51
It is so good to have you back on the podcast, it has been almost a year since we spoke last time.

Alina Gonzales 1:59
This year, time flow is flown by a year.

Bill Gasiamis 2:05
Time has flown? Has it also gone slow?

Alina Gonzales 2:10
Yeah, very slow, because recovery in my mind, I thought that pushing ankle over here, long and recovering like that, and it takes take a couple of weeks, but a very long process.

Bill Gasiamis 2:29
Yeah, in your mind, recovery was going to happen quickly. These things don’t happen quickly, it’s one of the things that stroke survivors get impacted with. Is that the understanding that this could be a bit of a longer process than first thought. So you had a stroke in 2022 is that right?

Alina Gonzales 2:56
2020 actually.

Bill Gasiamis 2:57
In 2020 and what happened to you Alina?

Alina Gonzales 3:02
I was driving, and then I had ringing in my ear, and I called 911 because my vision was a little bit flurry and severe ringing in my ear. So I didn’t know was going on, I had no idea.

Bill Gasiamis 3:20
And what was the underlying cause of it?

Alina Gonzales 3:24
In AVM.

Bill Gasiamis 3:26
Arterial Venous Malformation as well.

Alina Gonzales 3:29
Yes.

Bill Gasiamis 3:31
When you when you got out of hospital, what were the deficits that you were left with?

Alina Gonzales 3:36
I had a stroke and a G-tube and a difficulty on my left side.

Bill Gasiamis 3:46
And difficult on your left side the trach, is that what has made your voice a bit croaky.

Alina Gonzales 3:53
So when the hospital just at the Craig, for so long I’ve paralyzed vocal cord as a result.

Bill Gasiamis 4:04
I have a paralyzed vocal cord because they left the trachea in too long.

Alina Gonzales 4:12
I received very poor care at the hospital, but partially, I think, because of COVID.

Bill Gasiamis 4:20
Yeah, you were right in the thick of things. So how long have you been home now?

Alina Gonzales 4:30
Like, three or four years now.

Bill Gasiamis 4:36
I remember last time we spoke, and for people who are watching and listening, they should go back and check out the first podcast interview that we did. All the links will be in the show notes, your mom had to be involved in that discussion.

Alina Gonzales 4:54
Yeah, for a long time I have very, A difficult time speaking, and I think is better, a little bit better with time and practice.

Bill Gasiamis 5:12
Your your recovery has improved a lot, like, compared to what you were last time, I’m noticing a massive difference, your level of communication, understanding, your independence, everything has changed a lot.

Alina Gonzales 5:32
That’s so good to hear.

Bill Gasiamis 5:34
Have you noticed that it’s changed a lot? Where are you at with it all?

Alina Gonzales 5:38
No, I’m good. Like, moving out and then that scope and now realize the gains that I’ve made. It’s very difficult to be in your own mind and those changes that you’ve made.

Bill Gasiamis 5:56
It’s very difficult to notice the changes that you’ve made when you’re in your own body, feeling and experiencing how it’s, how it now, how it is now, how your body kind of so when you left hospital, were you able to walk, or anything like that?

Alina Gonzales 6:19
No, I wasn’t able to walk, I have a very difficult time walking right now. I don’t have drop or anything like that, but have issues. So I have a lot of balance issues, and so it makes it very difficult to walk.

Bill Gasiamis 6:37
You have vestibular issues, so your balance is affected, and you don’t have drop foot, but the challenge with walking is related to your balance.

Alina Gonzales 6:48
Like my body space, like recognition of one of my bodies in space.

Bill Gasiamis 7:00
I think they call it proprioception issues. Your body on the left side doesn’t, isn’t able to report back to the brain as to where it is in space.

Alina Gonzales 7:12
Correct, yes.

Bill Gasiamis 7:13
Okay, so that puts you off balance, and it makes the body overcompensate, and always kind of put you out of whack with your compared to your right side.

Alina Gonzales 7:25
Yes, unfortunately, I’m very strong, though I think I’m very strong and capable and love ways, but disabled to walk in. Yet it’s a keyword.

Bill Gasiamis 7:37
Yeah, is the keyword. I love it, your spirit is amazing. When you were on the podcast last I thought it was pretty cool to have you on because you were in a bad way compared to where you are now, I think you’ve improved tapes, like I said, but you’re still more interested in being on the podcast in the hopes that you’re going to help raise awareness and help other people. So how have you been occupying yourself in the last 12 months?

Alina Gonzales 8:16
A participant with a group, a support group, which I can’t emphasize enough, is so important for other survivors to be part of so I’m a member of different groups that talk about brain health and effective treatments for brain health as well.

Bill Gasiamis 8:41
Can you community is very important as made a big difference in how you navigate this.

Alina Gonzales 8:49
Yes, for sure.

Bill Gasiamis 8:53
Are those communities online or are they in person?

Alina Gonzales 8:58
Unfortunately, there’s not much around me were people interacting person because of COVID, taking time?

Bill Gasiamis 9:12
At least there’s online. I mean, online is a very good way for you to access community without being in a position where you have to travel, where you have to make a lot of effort to get to anyway.

Alina Gonzales 9:25
Yeah, it’s true here.

Bill Gasiamis 9:29
I noticed a few times when you’ve spoken just now, that you put your hand to your throat. Is there a reason for that? Does that help you in some way?

Alina Gonzales 9:37
By drinking, when they took it off, I had to cover up the hole and she took that habit I have in my mind, I saw how the hole sort of have it.

Bill Gasiamis 9:55
But it’s healed.

Alina Gonzales 9:56
Yeah, fortunately, it dropped. Doctor, I had to go get the surgeon, close it up with a couple of stitches, because it wasn’t here to open wounds, I was like a deep hole, and they switched it up, I think you use like four stitches, not many.

Bill Gasiamis 10:25
Just a quick break, and we’ll be right back with more of Alina’s journey. I’d like to take a moment to talk about something that’s been a big part of my own recovery journey, my book ‘The unexpected way that a stroke became the best thing that happened. In it I share my personal story and that of nine other stroke survivors who have turned their challenges into opportunities for growth.

Bill Gasiamis 10:47
If you’re looking for inspiration and guidance on your path to recovery, this book is for you. Get your copy on Amazon or visit recoveryafterstroke.com/book. And then it’s a gaping wound, and then it heals by itself, and it kind of closes over, and it connects, reconnects.

Alina Gonzales 11:08
It’s supposed to, but it tells us why the surgeon went in and used to cool out the hole.

Bill Gasiamis 11:17
Okay, so normally it heals on its own, but for you, it didn’t and they needed to sew it up.

Alina Gonzales 11:22
Correct, right.

Bill Gasiamis 11:24
Okay, right, and does it feel strange now? Is it always kind of feel a little bit different in that spot.

Alina Gonzales 11:34
Like I’m always, I see, but it feels normal. I’m very lucky.

Bill Gasiamis 11:41
It sounds like you’ve done a lot of rehab, also with your voice. Have you been doing speech therapy?

Alina Gonzales 11:48
I went to a speech therapist for a long time, and she was very patient with me. She did the stimulation on my face, to work on the symmetry of my face, and to work on my voice. So that was very helpful, and she was very patient with me.

Bill Gasiamis 12:08
Very patient with you? Why did she need to be patient with you? Just because of your level of inability to talk?

Alina Gonzales 12:15
Yeah, I think that was perfect, and also deal with my insurance.

Bill Gasiamis 12:21
Your insurance making things hard as always.

Alina Gonzales 12:25
Yeah, as always, unfortunately.

Bill Gasiamis 12:29
Okay, are you still dealing with the insurance? Or have they stepped away?

Alina Gonzales 12:35
I’m still dealing with them, but I don’t go to speech therapy or anymore.

Bill Gasiamis 12:42
And are they covering some other therapies?

Alina Gonzales 12:43
Right now, I’m not going to have the therapies? But probably so in a couple months, because they were giving me a hard time, I was going to physical therapy, and they stopped coverage. And so I have to take a break and then restart and get a whole new referral from my primary care physician, and then restart. I got to do that very soon, but I took, like, a month and a half off to do the hyperbaric chamber. I did hyperbaric for about a month and a half.

Alina Gonzales 13:12
Yeah, hyperbaric oxygen therapy.

Alina Gonzales 13:26
Correct, yes.

Bill Gasiamis 13:27
Tell me about that, what was that like?

Alina Gonzales 13:30
That was I think it was very relaxing. Overall, it was very relaxing, but I’m just very hopeful that helps in some way, but the therapist said that I was a big patient with the results, so I’m just waiting for for the results to kick in.

Bill Gasiamis 13:53
Okay, so this particular hyperbaric oxygen therapy sessions that you’ve done, were they in consultation with some kind of a doctor, a medical professional, or was it just a private place locally to you, and you can just go and book some time into in the session there on your own.

Alina Gonzales 14:19
The physician that was there, and I booked a couple of sessions. Actually, I booked like I went twice a day, so I called the morning for about an hour and a half, and then in the afternoon by another hour and a half. That’s what they were my first drug patient.

Bill Gasiamis 14:40
And you went twice a day for an hour and a half each session. How many days a week?

Alina Gonzales 14:49
Five days a week, my mom was a saint. She would drive me for over an hour away and wait for me to go and then, during my session, then we go grab some food and then come back.

Bill Gasiamis 15:12
So five days a week, that’s a big commitment, but it seems like it’s worth it, right?

Alina Gonzales 15:18
I think so, yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 15:20
Did you notice any immediate changes, any changes in your cognition, in your clarity, in the way that your head felt?

Alina Gonzales 15:28
Not really, not yet. I’m very hopeful that I feel so dangerous very soon.

Bill Gasiamis 15:35
Yep, is that a therapy that you need to continue, that you’ll be able to continue Alina?

Alina Gonzales 15:41
No, they say that first stroke patient, so I won’t be doing it anymore, I reached my limit.

Bill Gasiamis 15:54
There’s a limit. Okay, I didn’t know that. So when you’re in the in the oxygen chamber, what are you doing in there? What’s the How does it work? What do you do?

Alina Gonzales 16:09
You lay back, and then you have a mask over your face, and you breathe oxygen, pure oxygen, for about an hour and a half.

Bill Gasiamis 16:21
Okay. And in that time you can read a book, sleep? What do they do?

Alina Gonzales 16:28
For you to read, but not sleep at all.

Bill Gasiamis 16:33
But not sleep?

Alina Gonzales 16:35
Yeah, they want you to use your brain as much as possible.

Bill Gasiamis 16:40
To try and stimulate things happening.

Alina Gonzales 16:43
Right, good.

Bill Gasiamis 16:45
Okay, that’s really cool. Is it expensive?

Alina Gonzales 16:50
Yeah, it was expensive. I’m still paying it off now, it adds up very quickly, but if it works, it’ll be worth it.

Bill Gasiamis 17:00
Yeah, absolutely. I think hyperbaric oxygen therapy is just good overall for people who can experience it and can go into the chamber, I think it’s good overall. I’m not, it can be overused in the wrong way of course, there’s definitely that, but under controlled and monitored versions of hyperbaric oxygen therapy, I feel like there is not that much downside.

Alina Gonzales 17:32
No, I agree with you, there were other patients there that were cancer patient or had plastic surgery, and we’re going for a different therapies for the appearance and getting bigger.

Bill Gasiamis 17:51
You mentioned earlier that you were having something to eat after these sessions, and then coming home, is eating? Okay? Is your throat been impacted in any other negative ways other than the the trach?

Alina Gonzales 18:07
Yeah, it’s very difficult for me on now. I can’t stuff my face like before I get to see any I can’t I have to focus on chewing before I would just have my face and not think about her great year, I refer tongues liquids as well as to have them taken every time. Love coffee, I love coffee, I like to take it every time.

Bill Gasiamis 18:41
And is it just difficult swallowing? Is that that because of that paralyzed part of your throat? Is it swallowing? And that’s the risk there, getting choking?

Alina Gonzales 18:53
Yes.

Bill Gasiamis 18:59
So what so what do you have to focus on? More do you have to focus on when you’re chewing something? Is it like chewing it down to a good size, so that you can swallow it easily? Or do you have to actually pay attention to the actual swallowing part of the process.

Alina Gonzales 19:16
That’s a chewy down to like mush, pretty much, and then focus on time, it’s a much more focusing session, I chew and chew and chew, then fighting, and time as well, now we really have to focus.

Bill Gasiamis 19:41
Yep. Understand, and do you also have another challenge there with regards to your mouth and the way that it works, and also with saliva?

Alina Gonzales 19:54
I do, yes, somebody else mentioned that they think that with stroke patients that the saliva is impacted, the glands are impacting, you all have a lot of saliva, a lot of extra than before.

Bill Gasiamis 20:16
A lot of a lot extra than before.

Alina Gonzales 20:19
Yes, it’s correct. A lot before it’s a tough thing to manage.

Bill Gasiamis 20:27
And does that also then risk choking or anything like that, or is it just the the uncomfortable part or the annoying part, where it then leaves your mouth?

Alina Gonzales 20:40
It’s annoying, because I feel like I drool a lot.

Bill Gasiamis 20:45
And are you drooling? Or do you just think you’re drooling?

Alina Gonzales 20:49
I think it’s a little bit of both, because I feel like my imagination.

Bill Gasiamis 21:03
There’s a little bit of that as well.

Alina Gonzales 21:05
Yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 21:06
That’s alright. Well, that’s and then it just requires you to pay pay attention to that and have a tissue handy and just make sure that it’s all clean.

Alina Gonzales 21:16
Yes.

Bill Gasiamis 21:18
I hear you. So tell me about what’s new like, tell me about you. What have you been up to the last 12 months? I know there’s been a lot of rehab and a lot of recovery, but what else? What else have you been up to?

Alina Gonzales 21:33
I’m just trying to find a solution to all this, I would really like to start working again. I have a new apartment that I was able to purchase, and I can enjoy it the way I want to because of this event.

Bill Gasiamis 21:51
The new apartment?

Alina Gonzales 21:55
Overall, I really just want to walk again on my own and be more independent.

Bill Gasiamis 22:04
Walk on your own. Driving is on the on the to do list of walking is on the do list and be more independent.

Alina Gonzales 22:15
Yes, it’s correct.

Bill Gasiamis 22:16
Yeah, the new apartment that you have, you’re living there on your own.

Alina Gonzales 22:22
No, I’m not allowed to share on my own yet.

Bill Gasiamis 22:27
Doctor’s orders.

Alina Gonzales 22:28
I did with my mother, majority at the time, and then I come down to the apartment.

Bill Gasiamis 22:36
Okay? So doctor’s orders, you’re not allowed to stay alone.

Alina Gonzales 22:41
Correct, yes.

Bill Gasiamis 22:42
What are they concerned about?

Alina Gonzales 22:45
About my mobile, like I can’t do much for myself at this point.

Bill Gasiamis 22:56
So they’re afraid of your falling, getting stuck in a position where you can’t help yourself. Okay, so in the evenings, is that immobility difficult to deal with, handling getting up and being uncomfortable in bed or needing to go get a drink of water? Is that a challenge.

Alina Gonzales 23:21
Having to go to the bathroom in the morning is very careful. I don’t want to make anybody up, but I have to go.

Bill Gasiamis 23:33
You don’t want to wake anybody up, but you have to go.

Alina Gonzales 23:35
But I have to go, and have to go, and it’s very careful.

Bill Gasiamis 23:43
At the beginning of this whole saga for you, there was a lot of challenges that you hadn’t overcome yet. What are the some of the challenges that you’ve worked on and have been able to overcome?

Alina Gonzales 23:54
I think maybe to communicate one thing that’s got a lot better, and my ability to eat food is another thing. I think those are two big things that I was able to overcome, and I’m just looking forward to being able to speak to you again, to tell I’m walking, I’m driving, living my life. I was talking to a friend from high school, and he said ‘What do you want as a one normal life again? That’s it. But you want normal, healthy, good life, that’s it.

Bill Gasiamis 24:41
Yeah, fair enough so your communication is a lot better. Like I said, was your communication difficult at the beginning because of the lack of rehabilitation to that throat area? Was paralyzed, or was it also cognitive? Did you also suffer from aphasia or something else?

Alina Gonzales 25:06
I think I had a little bit of aphasia, but I couldn’t communicate at first at all. I think it was like my inability to speak at all as a combination of aphasia and my paralyzed vocal cord.

Bill Gasiamis 25:33
And now, with time, the aphasia has settled down, that part of your brain seems to be healing and recovering, and the vocal cord, although it’s not perfect, it seems to have also been rehabilitated and working in your favor.

Alina Gonzales 25:49
I think I don’t tell like myself ‘Oh, so it’s really difficult for me.

Bill Gasiamis 25:57
You don’t sound like your old self.

Alina Gonzales 26:01
It’s part of my identity that’s gone, I guess.

Bill Gasiamis 26:08
Your identity has been impacted by that for sure.

Alina Gonzales 26:12
Yeah, yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 26:16
What kind of work were you doing before the stroke?

Alina Gonzales 26:20
I’ve worked in biotechnology. So I was working with newborn babies and premature babies and babies with lung disease. So I was in the hospital in the NICU, and that was very rewarding, I love it, I love my bosses.

Bill Gasiamis 26:45
Do you see when you’re back at work? Do you see yourself transitioning back into that field again or into a different field?

Alina Gonzales 26:52
I hope so, I just want to help patients out in any way that I can.

Bill Gasiamis 26:59
Yeah, your bosses, have you spoken to them in the last couple of years?

Alina Gonzales 27:06
Yes, I have. I spoke to my most recent boss, and he’s very supportive of everything. He’s frustrated with the fact that I go through this, but he’s very supportive.

Bill Gasiamis 27:21
Yeah, he’s also frustrated.

Alina Gonzales 27:25
Yeah, and he kept in touch with my mom while in the hospital, because I don’t know if you remember, but they told my Mom that I was a bad survivor.

Bill Gasiamis 27:42
And what’s it like hearing that, that they thought that you weren’t gonna survive?

Alina Gonzales 27:52
Sometimes I’m like ‘Okay, I’m not. I don’t feel the same way, but before, I’m like ‘If it happens, it happened to everybody. So it’s like, I still have a lot to live for, so that’s part of it. But then, yes, certainly, it’s like it happened to happen.

Bill Gasiamis 28:15
Yeah, you’ve got a lot to live for, but you’ve contemplated your mortality.

Alina Gonzales 28:20
Yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 28:24
Most of us have, I think most people have had a stroke, definitely contemplate their mortality. How old were you when you had the bleed?

Alina Gonzales 28:30
40 years old when I had my stroke, very heavy and health conscious.

Bill Gasiamis 28:40
That’s the thing about AVMs, they’re just born. You’re born with them, they’re just in your head that you don’t know that they’re there, and you don’t know when that happens, it’s a real surprise, the same thing with me. I was 37 when mine bled for the first time, I had brain surgery when I was 40. Did you have to have brain surgery? How did they resolve the bleed?

Alina Gonzales 29:02
That connects from my brain to my heart, I can feel it. It’s up here, whereas in the hospital, they had a shave half of my head down and towards the hover shunt in my head right now, but that’s the only surgery that I had.

Bill Gasiamis 29:29
What does the shunt do? Are you able to explain it?

Alina Gonzales 29:36
It simply filters some of the excess blood out of my brain, out to my heart.

Bill Gasiamis 29:46
It filters the excess blood.

Alina Gonzales 29:49
Correct, yes.

Bill Gasiamis 29:52
Why is there excess blood in there?

Alina Gonzales 29:56
From the extra fluid and extra blood.

Bill Gasiamis 30:04
So it’s related to the AVM, this additional fluid or blood that’s in there, and is it that there’s no way out for it, and you need the shunt to sort of cycle that out?

Alina Gonzales 30:19
Actually, I’m not sure about that.

Bill Gasiamis 30:22
Okay, I hear a lot of people have shunts in them, I don’t specifically understand what they do. That’s why I was asking, maybe somebody who is listening or watching can leave a comment in the YouTube video and let me know what perhaps the shunt is doing. What have you? Have you done any type of rehabilitation or other therapies that have really been useful and helpful, that you’ve enjoyed, other than hyperbaric?

Alina Gonzales 30:53
I’ve worked with a physical therapist virtually, his name is Daniel West, and he was very challenging. He helped me with different exercises. He’s a physical therapist by trade, but he’s very motivational, and very strict.

Bill Gasiamis 31:17
Strict? How?

Alina Gonzales 31:21
I feel like I do the exercise, I feel like right now I’d like my physical therapist very much.

Bill Gasiamis 31:39
So although he was strict, you felt like it was supporting and helping you with your rehab, whereas now you feel like your physical therapist is a little less strict.

Alina Gonzales 31:53
I guess, yeah, in a way, because I feel like you really was focused on my recovery and walking and getting better, and this physical therapist just smiled and said ‘Okay, we’re gonna do this today. She has her plan, and she always sticks to it, not listening to what I say at all.

Bill Gasiamis 32:21
Doesn’t take you into consideration?

Alina Gonzales 32:24
No.

Bill Gasiamis 32:31
So your mom does a lot for you. What are some of the things that she helps you with?

Alina Gonzales 32:36
She helped me walk, there’s a primary thing. So she helps me to go the bathroom, and she cooks for me and pushes my wheelchair everywhere I go, everything.

Bill Gasiamis 32:54
She does everything, with your balance and your vestibular issues. Is there anyone that you’ve been able to see about that? About the vestibular recovery?

Alina Gonzales 33:08
Doing some research? I think that the most important thing I can do, I’m doing some research, trying to find something that may be able to help.

Bill Gasiamis 33:20
Have you by any chance, listen to my interview with Cheryl Shiltz, episode 200?

Alina Gonzales 33:28
No, why?

Bill Gasiamis 33:30
Because Cheryl is not a stroke survivor, but she had damage to her vestibular system that was caused by medication, and she had her vestibular system completely gone.

Bill Gasiamis 33:43
It was totally gone, and she bumped into by chance at the university that she was attending, the researchers who were working on retraining, believe it or not, the tongue to take over the job of the damaged vestibular system, and she had no balance and she had no no ability to she had dizziness and vertigo, and she had no ability to walk, and they were able to retrain her tongue to take over the job of the vestibular system, using Neuroplasticity.

Alina Gonzales 34:28
Episode 200?

Bill Gasiamis 34:29
Episode 200, yeah.

Alina Gonzales 34:30
Okay, yeah, thank you for that.

Bill Gasiamis 34:33
Yeah, Cheryl continues to advocate in this space. She’s an amazing person, and our interview is called Neuroplasticity and sensory substitution, and some of the work that she was involved in was groundbreaking research, and the original work, the rehabilitation that she received, the work for that and the research for that. Started in the 1970s and in the 1980s and by the time Cheryl got to experience that particular rehab, she was the first patient that it was tried on.

Bill Gasiamis 35:15
And now there’s a whole bunch of research that’s come after that. So she would be, I think, more than happy to chat to you, and also the interview is definitely worth listening to.

Alina Gonzales 35:28
What’s her last name again?

Bill Gasiamis 35:32
Cheryl Shiltz, S, H, I, L, T, Z. For anyone listening and watching on YouTube, there’ll be links in the show notes to that episode, but for for you, I’ll send you the link, and then you can watch my interview with Cheryl on YouTube. She’s just had a remarkable outcome because of that particular rehabilitation technique.

Alina Gonzales 36:03
What medication was she had?

Bill Gasiamis 36:07
She had an infection after a surgery, I believe, and they put her on antibiotics. And this particular antibiotics, one of the side effects for some people, very rare side effect is to to cause damage, I’m not sure, directly to the vestibular system, but to impact people in a negative way, in some, some way. And it did for Cheryl, so she was really stuck in this really difficult place of not having any balance after this infection was treated, and then she was able to get that back, they were able to rehabilitate that.

Alina Gonzales 36:55
Do you know how much money for rehabilitation process?

Bill Gasiamis 37:01
I don’t know exactly. It took a while, though, because it was all experimental, so I’m not sure exactly of the process, but you’ll get more more insights when you listen to the episode, and then, if you feel like it, you could reach out to Cheryl. Her contact details are available on the on the links, so you’ll be able to you’ll be able to find her.

Alina Gonzales 37:27
I’m very grateful. Thank you so much.

Bill Gasiamis 37:30
You’re welcome, no trouble at all. I wonder if you might share with us what you feel is the hardest thing about stroke for you?

Alina Gonzales 37:41
I think the hard thing for me, my lack of independence, our future, working and making my own money, and coming and going as I preach and socializing and doing everything that I want, traveling food and drinking whatever one so it’s very difficult now, everything is different.

Bill Gasiamis 38:12
The lack of independence and the way that things have to be done differently.

Alina Gonzales 38:18
Yes, unfortunately, the typical child, for me.

Bill Gasiamis 38:28
Yeah, what would you say that stroke has taught you?

Alina Gonzales 38:34
Well, I think stroke has taught me to be patient and appreciate what you have. I think that’s one point to be patient and appreciate everything that you have.

Bill Gasiamis 38:54
Were you not so patient previously, or was it just something that wasn’t in your awareness?

Alina Gonzales 39:02
I guess, but then like patient the way I am now, with my recovery and my interaction with other people.

Bill Gasiamis 39:16
You have to be patient with them and yourself, because I imagine other people who have never met you before would make assumptions, and they’d be ignorant about what your situation is.

Alina Gonzales 39:33
Yeah, it’s unfortunate, but I think people are overall very ignorant about close survivors, they think ‘Oh, you’re too young to have had a stroke. So it’s very difficult, because most people think I’m just full of it.

Bill Gasiamis 39:57
Even though you’ve told them you’ve had a stroke and you clearly have their deficites. They think it’s not true, or?

Alina Gonzales 40:06
I think, they think that I’m just like ‘I don’t know what I’m talking about.

Bill Gasiamis 40:12
They don’t know what you’re talking about.

Alina Gonzales 40:13
They just don’t understand it.

Bill Gasiamis 40:15
I think they don’t understand it, more than anything. And also, maybe, perhaps Alina, they don’t want to understand it, because then what will happen is maybe they have to think about themselves in a difficult situation like then they can’t imagine it.

Alina Gonzales 40:37
That’s very true.

Bill Gasiamis 40:39
Patience with other people, patience with yourself as well.

Alina Gonzales 40:43
Yeah, because, like I said, we first started talking, I thought my recovery was just maybe a couple of weeks. Obviously, it’s one thing as the other.

Bill Gasiamis 40:57
Yeah, the type of patience you’re talking about is not the kind of patience that you would have had to practice before stroke. I mean, you have to be patient for certain things, but this is different, isn’t it? This is a lot more deeper level of patience.

Alina Gonzales 41:14
It’s very different, because you have to have clear understanding of what you want to accomplish and be more realistic about the time that it takes to get there.

Bill Gasiamis 41:28
Yeah, frustrating as well.

Alina Gonzales 41:33
Yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 41:34
What do you want to tell other people who are listening to our interview here?

Alina Gonzales 41:41
I know that it’s very difficult, but not to give up and to keep fun every day because there’s divorce at the end, say it goes in glasses and keep fighting. Don’t give up, never give up. I think that’s amazing.

Bill Gasiamis 42:01
Yeah, never give up, keep fighting, go after your goals.

Alina Gonzales 42:10
Yeah for sure.

Bill Gasiamis 42:12
Yeah, with the with the time that’s passed. Now, do you how do you set your goals? Do you set them? Day at a Time, month at a time, years ahead, like, how do you set them?

Alina Gonzales 42:29
My thing, I’ve had to adjust them because, like I said, I have to be more realistic about how long recovery takes and the things take longer for you to get better, to recover, so I I set goals ahead month and month ahead of time.

Bill Gasiamis 42:53
Yeah, is it physically and you’re is it physically and neurologically challenging to talk for an amount of the amount of time that we’ve been talking now.

Alina Gonzales 43:06
No, I’m okay.

Bill Gasiamis 43:07
Okay, so you’ve overcome that part of the, well, some people struggle with the concentration and the focus and the talking.

Alina Gonzales 43:19
Yeah, very lucky, I’m lucky and lovely.

Bill Gasiamis 43:24
Fatigue?

Alina Gonzales 43:26
No, I’m okay.

Bill Gasiamis 43:29
Fatigue is not an issue?

Alina Gonzales 43:30
No pain, no fatigue. And I’m able to use both arms and hands, and I just have one more time to hand me to work on my walk, and that’s the main thing I’m focusing on now.

Bill Gasiamis 43:53
They’re good things, they are all good things. So the blessings, I suppose, I mean the fact that you’re not dealing with fatigue on top of everything else, that’s awesome.

Alina Gonzales 44:09
I know that there are people that deal with a lot of pain and fatigue, and it’s very challenging, so I’m very lucky.

Bill Gasiamis 44:22
Do you? As a result of what happened to you, have the doctors prescribed any medication?

Alina Gonzales 44:28
No, no medication right now, thankfully.

Alina Gonzales 44:31
None at all?

Alina Gonzales 44:34
None at all.

Bill Gasiamis 44:38
Yeah, that’s excellent. So that means that you’re generally in good health.

Alina Gonzales 44:45
Yeah, I just have to get better again.

Bill Gasiamis 44:49
Get better again.

Alina Gonzales 44:51
Yeah, for sure.

Bill Gasiamis 44:53
Yeah, that is good. That’s one of the things that I also didn’t have to deal with was any medication, and even though I’ve got a couple of little deficits and balance issues and all the things that I have, it’s it’s really good that I don’t have those other underlying causes like some people, which is high blood pressure, while the issues that are related to a bleed that some people experience.

Alina Gonzales 45:22
That’s true, yeah, I think also recognizing where we are fortunate, in love with human takes for the health that we do have, yeah, I think they had to express some gratitude throughout challenge. Otherwise, you just say assignment, you won’t progress.

Bill Gasiamis 45:53
Have you had any challenges with depression or anything like that? Have they those things popped up for you?

Alina Gonzales 46:02
For sure, yeah, I think it goes like of all the culture, some days are good, some days are awful. Yeah, it’s very, very well done, very difficult.

Bill Gasiamis 46:18
When it’s awful, how do you how do you come out of it? You just have to wait it through. Do you have to wheel yourself out of it?

Alina Gonzales 46:29
Keep pushing, pushing through and find a way out, and not giving up with it like before.

Bill Gasiamis 46:42
And not giving up, even though it’s bad at the time.

Alina Gonzales 46:45
Yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 46:49
What about any other issues, like anxiety does? Has that ever been something that’s turned up in your life?

Alina Gonzales 46:57
No, not really, I’m very lucky.

Bill Gasiamis 47:05
I love your attitude, I love the fact that you are like properly aware of the things to be grateful for, probably aware of how good your health is, even though you’re dealing with the deficits that stroke has left you, and that you’re aware that it sounds like you’re aware that it could have been worse.

Alina Gonzales 47:26
Yeah, I know a lot of people that have different issues that I don’t have so very aware of the way the thing could be. So I know I’ve run that a very difficult time with fatigue. Another friend that has really tough time with me, very difficult time with drivers as well.

Bill Gasiamis 47:56
Are they all stroke survivors?

Alina Gonzales 47:58
Yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 48:00
It’s amazing how many stroke survivors we know these days. All of a sudden, we end up finding a whole bunch of extra.

Alina Gonzales 48:12
Yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 48:14
Yeah, are these people that you see one on one locally or again? Are they online?

Alina Gonzales 48:19
All online, yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 48:21
All online?

Alina Gonzales 48:22
Yeah, all online.

Bill Gasiamis 48:27
How do you guys support each other? What is it? How does it help you to get together and have these conversation?

Alina Gonzales 48:33
I think when you talk to other people and talk about your experiences or your thoughts and feelings, then you realize you’re not alone at all. Yeah, talking to other people to be beneficial overall.

Bill Gasiamis 48:59
Is it understanding, isn’t there, there’s a deeper understanding.

Alina Gonzales 49:04
Great good.

Bill Gasiamis 49:11
Under that’s I find it difficult to have those conversations with people who don’t, well, thankfully, haven’t been there as well, that they haven’t had a stroke, so that they don’t understand. They used to frustrate me, but like, I understand now why they don’t understand it’s because they haven’t been there, and we don’t want them to go there, and it’s really good to find other people who you can have a conversation with, and then they can I don’t know it makes you feel at ease, I suppose.

Alina Gonzales 49:45
Yeah, for sure.

Bill Gasiamis 49:47
Yeah, Alina, I really appreciate you reaching out to join me on the podcast again, it is actually really heartwarming to see how far you’ve come in the last 12 months, and I’m looking forward to chatting to you again in the next 12 months, so that again I can see how, how much further you’ve progressed.

Alina Gonzales 50:13
Yeah, I hope so. I hope to give you a call or send you a message ‘Hey, I’m walking and tell you about that. I’ll send you a video.

Bill Gasiamis 50:25
I’m going to be very keen to receive a video like that, and like you said, I think it’s a word there were the goals of keeping in your focus and going after, and I love that you also make it about other people that you’re keen to share so that other people can get better and improve.

Alina Gonzales 50:50
If you could can come here, or everything else, come reach out to me, feel free. They can always reach out to me.

Bill Gasiamis 51:02
We’ll have the links to your socials in the show notes so that people can go to recoveryafterstroke.com/episode, and download that stuff and just thanks once again, I’m going to send you that link to that interview with Cheryl Shiltz and maybe a couple of others that I think will be beneficial for you to to listen to or to watch and yeah, just thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Alina Gonzales 51:31
Thank you so much. Good to see you and talk to you.

Bill Gasiamis 51:36
That’s a wrap for Episode 328 I hope you found Alina’s story as inspiring as I did. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider supporting the podcast by subscribing to our Patreon page at patreon.com/recoveryafterstroke. Your support helps us keep bringing you these valuable stories and ensures that the podcast remains accessible to all stroke survivors. Remember to check out the show notes at recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes for links to Alina’s social media, full interview transcripts and more.

Bill Gasiamis 52:11
If you haven’t already left a review, please consider leaving a five star review on iTunes and Spotify and do please give a thumbs up on YouTube and leave a comment in the comments section beneath the video. I respond to all my comments personally. Thank you so much for being here, and I’ll see you in the next episode.

Intro 52:34
Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals, opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast are the individual’s own experience, and we do not necessarily share the same opinion, nor do we recommend any treatment protocol. Discussed all content on this website and any linked blog, podcast or video material controlled this website or content is created and produced for information or purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis.

Intro 53:04
The content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing, it is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice. The information is general and may not be suitable for your personal injuries, circumstances or health objectives. Do not use our content as a standalone resource to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for the advice of a health professional.

Intro 53:28
Never delay seeking advice or disregard the advice of a medical professional, your doctor or your rehabilitation program based on our content. If you have any questions or concerns about your health or medical condition, please seek guidance from a doctor or other medical professional if you are experiencing a health emergency or think you might be call triple zero if in Australia or your local emergency number immediately for emergency assistance or go to the nearest hospital emergency department. Medical information changes constantly.

Intro 53:55
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The post Resilience in Recovery: Alina Gonzales’s Stroke Rehabilitation Journey appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

Alcohol and Stroke: Understanding the Risks and the Road to Recovery

Alcohol consumption is woven into social customs around the world, but it comes with potential health risks that can significantly impact one’s well-being. Among these, the connection between excessive alcohol use and stroke is one of the most crucial yet often overlooked. Whether you are evaluating your current drinking habits or seeking guidance after a stroke, understanding the relationship between alcohol and stroke, as well as the possibilities when one chooses to give up alcohol, is essential.

High alcohol consumption is a well-documented risk factor for stroke. Excessive drinking can lead to high blood pressure, an irregular heartbeat (such as atrial fibrillation), and other cardiovascular issues—all of which increase the likelihood of stroke. Chronic alcohol use can weaken blood vessels and impair the body’s ability to regulate blood pressure effectively, setting the stage for potential hemorrhagic or ischemic strokes.

Choosing to quit alcohol—whether before or after a stroke—can be transformative. For those at risk, reducing or eliminating alcohol can help lower blood pressure, improve cardiovascular health, and decrease the chance of stroke. For stroke survivors, quitting alcohol can play a significant role in recovery and long-term rehabilitation. It can enhance the body’s ability to heal, support brain health, and improve overall physical and emotional well-being.

The positive impact of quitting alcohol extends beyond just physical health. Alcohol dependency often masks or exacerbates emotional struggles, such as stress and anxiety, which can hinder recovery. By quitting, individuals may find themselves better equipped to manage their emotional state, make healthier lifestyle choices, and cultivate the resilience needed for recovery.

1. Improved Brain Function and Cognitive Recovery: Post-stroke recovery often focuses on regaining cognitive and motor functions. Alcohol, known to impair cognitive abilities, can delay this process. When individuals stop drinking, they may experience improved focus, better memory retention, and enhanced overall brain function, supporting faster and more effective rehabilitation.
2. Enhanced Physical Health: Stopping alcohol consumption helps the body regain balance. This includes better liver function, improved sleep quality, and more stable blood sugar levels—all of which contribute to overall energy and resilience. Increased energy can translate to more productive physical therapy sessions and a quicker return to daily activities.
3. Emotional Stability and Mental Health: Alcohol is often used as a coping mechanism but can lead to greater anxiety and depression, especially in stroke survivors facing significant life changes. Quitting alcohol can foster more stable emotions, help build mental resilience, and support a positive outlook—critical components of successful recovery.
4. Better Lifestyle Choices: Many stroke survivors find that quitting alcohol opens the door to other beneficial lifestyle changes. This can include adopting a healthier diet, engaging in regular exercise, and participating in activities that support mental and physical health, such as meditation or mindfulness practices. Together, these changes can reinforce the body’s healing processes and build a stronger foundation for long-term recovery.

For those considering giving up alcohol as part of stroke prevention or recovery, it’s important to approach this transition mindfully:

• Seek Support: Whether from family, friends, or professional resources, having a strong support system can make the process more manageable.
• Develop New Coping Strategies: Replace drinking habits with healthier alternatives, such as exercise, hobbies, or support groups.
• Consult Healthcare Professionals: Speak with doctors or therapists who specialize in addiction and recovery to ensure you’re getting the guidance needed for a safe and effective transition.

While quitting alcohol may seem daunting, the benefits—especially in the context of stroke prevention and recovery—are substantial. Stroke survivors who take this step often report improvements in energy, emotional stability, and the ability to engage more fully in their rehabilitation journeys. Ultimately, prioritizing sobriety and healthier lifestyle choices can create a ripple effect, fostering resilience and paving the way for a richer, more fulfilling life after a stroke.

Whether you’re considering quitting alcohol to lower your risk or to support your post-stroke recovery, the path forward is filled with potential. Each day without alcohol is a step toward better health, resilience, and a stronger future.

Discover Will Schmierer’s journey from alcohol and stroke to resilience. An inspiring story of recovery, motivation, and lifestyle transformation.

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Highlights:

00:00 Will Schmierer’s Introduction and Background
01:37 The Impact of Weight and Alcohol on Health
10:38 The Role of Mindset and Self-Discovery in Recovery
21:27 The Challenges of Managing Multiple Health Conditions
33:51 The Importance of Diet and Exercise in Recovery
54:58 The Role of Podcasting in Sharing Recovery Stories
1:09:26 The Impact of Breathing Exercises on Recovery
1:16:21 The Importance of Self-Care and Balance
1:26:47 The Role of Community and Support in Recovery
1:29:11 Final Reflections and Future Goals

Transcript:

Bill Gasiamis 0:00
I use stroke survivor with a story to share, now’s the perfect time to join me on the show. The interviews are unscripted, and you don’t require any planning, just be yourself and share your experience to help others in similar situations. If you have a commercial product that supports stroke survivors in their recovery, you can join me on a sponsored episode of the show, just visit recoveryafterstroke.com/contact, fill out the form and I’ll get back to you with details on how we can connect via zoom.

Bill Gasiamis 0:31
Welcome to episode 327, of the recovery after stroke Podcast. Today, I have the privilege of sharing an extraordinary story of resilience, transformation and post traumatic growth with you. My guest Will Schmierer is not only a stroke survivor, but someone who has overcome monumental challenges, including battling alcoholism and facing a diagnosis of Multiple Sclerosis.

Bill Gasiamis 0:57
Will’s journey is one of relentless determination major lifestyle changes and the pursuit of recovery, embodying the essence of post traumatic growth in this episode, will talks openly about how his life changed after a devastating ischemic stroke at the age of 37 the choices that led to the pivotal moment and how he navigated the difficult path to sobriety and rehabilitation, from weighing over 530 pounds to becoming an active runner and embracing a healthier lifestyle will story demonstrates the recovery and personal growth can emerge from even the most difficult experiences.

Bill Gasiamis 1:37
His journey highlights how mindset discipline and self discovery are essential to overcoming life’s greatest challenges. Before we dive into Will’s inspiring journey, I want to take a moment to thank all of you who have supported the podcast, your comments, stories and feedback helped build a community that uplifts and empowers others on their recovery paths.

Bill Gasiamis 2:01
A special shout out to everyone who has left the five star review on Spotify on iTunes, your support helps others discover this valuable content, if you haven’t already, please consider leaving a review or a comment on the YouTube channel.

Bill Gasiamis 2:18
Will Schmierer, welcome to the podcast.

Will Schmierer 2:21
Thanks for having me Bill.

Bill Gasiamis 2:23
Tell me a little bit about what happened to you.

Will Schmierer 2:26
Yeah, so it’s kind of a long story, but to give a summary, December 2019, I wound up going into the hospital. Wasn’t feeling well, had been I had moved that year from Virginia back to Florida with my family here, coming back to Florida, got settled in, moved into our new, brand new house back in September of 2019, wasn’t really feeling well. Was a really big guy at that time, was about 530 pounds, give or take, depending on what scale, what day. You know when you’re that big, it depends on what hour you’re weighing yourself.

Will Schmierer 3:03
But, yeah, wasn’t feeling well once at the doctor’s middle of December 2019, the first time I went, they sent me back home, gave me, I don’t even think they gave me anything, to be honest, they just kind of said ‘No, you’re okay. And then wasn’t feeling well. A week later, went to not a hospital, but I went to an urgent care here. Woman there is like ‘Your heart is going to explode, your blood pressure is through the roof. I mean, it was a resting heart rate of like 90 plus, which is not good.

Will Schmierer 3:37
When I’m going back to the hospital, they put a bunch of monitors up to me, hooked me up with all sorts of things. Luckily, they figured out I had afib, so at that point they admitted me to the hospital about a couple days before Christmas that year, and I mean, I was supposed to get my heart shocked back into rhythm, I think it was Monday, December 23 I might be off with these dates by a day or two, but it was like two days before Christmas, and I thought ‘Okay, cool, we’ll shock my heart back into the rhythm.

Will Schmierer 4:11
I’ll get well, I’ll get in shape, and we’ll figure this out, and somewhere between the time they admitted me, which was that Saturday prior, somewhere in that Sunday, I must have had a stroke in my sleep at the hospital, or at least that’s what I think, or can remember. But my family had gone out for the day, kind of just to get out of the hospital and get some lunch and yeah. So it’s really weird, because you could imagine, I’m six foot eight, and at that point I was 530 pounds, managed to somehow get out of the bed, go to the restroom, use the restroom.

Will Schmierer 4:52
I knew something was wrong, but I just kind of thought my legs were asleep, because I never really like lay down or sit down in the hospital, you know that position that long? Long story short, they missed the diagnosis, they thought pinched nerve they’re like ‘Oh, you’re too you know, it’s not a stroke. My wife, who is deaf, was like ‘No, I think you had a stroke. And I just was like ‘No, there’s no way. And even the doctors and the like, the staff there, again, this was right before the holidays, so like, you know, it was probably people covering, people not really aware of the signs, I guess.

Will Schmierer 5:26
And unfortunately for me, went into surgery that morning, and they did, in fact, confirm that I had had a stroke that previous day, and I was already, at that point, I was a little bit, you know, can’t do much after, after a certain amount of hours, of course, later, I learned about TPA and signs of stroke, probably should have known the signs stroke, but, you know, if I didn’t know them, the doctors should have known the main I know they were thinking.

Bill Gasiamis 5:56
They should have known them. But also, you’re at that weight, 530 pounds, which is 240 kilograms. You are the perfect candidate for a stroke like it’s should have been a massive Red Flag.

Will Schmierer 6:18
I mean, to be honest, though, yeah, a little strange, but again, I was in bed, so they probably weren’t calculating six foot eight, you know, and I’m at six foot eight, 530 pounds. It’s still 530 pounds, but I don’t think, honestly, anybody in my life really realized how big that was. I mean, I was just a big kind of like, literally, I filled the doorway, anywhere we went, and that was kind of the way it was, because I grew up, like I was always a bigger guy.

Will Schmierer 6:48
I always played sports, you know, if we had rugby here in the States, I would have played rugby, probably, but I played a lot of football and then just kind of gained weight over the years in my 30s, and like, it’s just gradually got put on, and I was always wearing good clothes anyway. So I think, to my detriment, I was kind of hiding it from myself, but really people just didn’t know how big I had gotten.

Bill Gasiamis 7:12
Yeah, you kind of might be able to hide it a little bit, I imagine, just because of your height, when I look at that photo that you’ve posted on your Instagram, survivor science, yeah, and it’s you how it started, 2019 on the left, and how it’s going 2024 it’s going great, by the way.

Will Schmierer 7:33
Thank you.

Bill Gasiamis 7:34
But you can see that just in your face, just by sitting down the chin, the chin is huge. In the chin, there’d be just an amount of weight there that would almost, sort of add another two or three kilos just there.

Will Schmierer 7:52
Yeah, and then there’s the beard that was covering things, and I wear hoodies, and I was wearing like, big shorts, because, you know, I used to play basketball, so I was kind of in the 90s basketball always wearing big shorts that are way too big.

Bill Gasiamis 8:05
Was that a strategy to hide it?

Will Schmierer 8:09
No, not intentionally, I mean, I’ve always been like a guy that wears basketball shirts and oddies and basketball shoes like, that’s just how I grew up in the 90s. So it’s like, it wasn’t really intentional, it was just kind of my style. And the other problem is, you know, I talk about this a lot, but I used to be a former alcoholic, and I don’t want to glorify being an alcoholic, but, like, I really hid that, even for myself, to it to my drug detriment, and my wife knew I was drinking a lot, and I was always big drinker back my 20s and into my 30s, and I just like, I held down my job.

Will Schmierer 8:48
Like, I wasn’t like, so I was an alcoholic, let’s be clear, but I wasn’t like, I guess the term for lack of a better one is,functional alcoholics. So like, I would do all my duties, I would work, get up, do things, you know, and then the hours of, like, 9 to 12, I would just pound beers, and you can imagine Bill at six, eight and 530 pounds, that starts to add on the weight.

Will Schmierer 9:15
And it also, it wasn’t like one or two it, you know, it started probably in my 20s as like a six pack, and then it probably get a little more because I went to school at Miami, so I was just a big partier, kind of, not even like, I just never thought about it, and I just kept going and going, and, yeah, I mean, even now, I drink like, two gallons of water a day just because I’m a big dude.

Bill Gasiamis 9:41
Just require more than other another person standard, which you kind of let that kind of go to, well, I’m bigger guy. I’ve got to drink more, and then that, though, more alcohol is not necessarily achieving anything other than getting you more calories, more calories and more plastered, perhaps more disassociated, all sorts of things.

Bill Gasiamis 10:07
Let’s pause here for a moment. If you’re finding inspiration and valuable insights into Will’s story, I encourage you to check out my book ‘The unexpected way that a stroke became the best thing that happened. It’s a deep dive into Post Traumatic Growth, packed with practical advice and real stories from stroke survivors who turned their hardships into powerful opportunities for transformation. You can find it on Amazon or at recoveryafterstroke.com/book.

Will Schmierer 10:38
Yeah, I mean, probably was a lot of stress. It was, there’s a lot more to the backstory, but yeah, as you know, I had kids in my 30s, I already had a daughter with my wife from her previous marriage, you know, my daughter. I adopted my daughter, and then we had two more kids. And just stress of being a developer in agency, life is very stressful, I let it get to me, and I didn’t have coping mechanism, and the drinking just probably, like a lot of alcohol, because it just becomes natural.

Will Schmierer 11:06
It’s funny now, I don’t drink, I don’t smoke, I don’t do any of that stuff, and it’s like, I don’t even miss it, it’s I hate it, like, I met Linda, I’m literally now that guy that like, if I smell cigarette smoke, I don’t mind if people drink, but I’m just like ‘Why would you waste the calories? Like, but yeah, and because I was so big, it didn’t really affect me the same way.

Will Schmierer 11:29
Like I could drink a 12 pack and not even blink, and like, you wouldn’t even be able to tell I drank a 12 pack, whereas most people would drink a 12 pack and they’d probably be dead. Again, not to glorify it, but it’s kind of how it happened.

Bill Gasiamis 11:43
I hear you, it’s not glorifying at all, it’s just giving an insight into what it looks like for a bigger guy to go down that path. You know, if somebody who is my height, you know, which is just under six foot and about, 80 kilos, which is like a third of your your heaviest, then you, you would have been able to kind of see it more dramatically. So would you say that drinking was also a part of dealing with stuff that was kind of helping that and sort of numb it? Or keep it at bay or not deal with it?

Will Schmierer 12:32
Yeah, I think it was a bit of both, I think it was I can handle stress, and even now, obviously I maintain a different level of stress, but I think combination of kind of that kid from Jersey on the East Coast, like, I’m a very east coast USA guy, like, if you’ve ever met other people from around the US, that’s very different on the East Coast than other time zones in the States, and so a mix of Jersey, New York, Miami, you know, part of the lifestyle just kind of never gave it a thought, and it was a way to it’s a culture, and it’s part of it was.

Will Schmierer 13:09
I mean, I guess it was definitely a coping mechanism, but I just thought it was under control too, because it was like ‘Okay, well, I’ll drink from like 9pm after the kids go down to midnight. But that already rips into your sleep, I mean, there’s a lot of factors, I had a lot of things, and still have some things that I, unfortunately, won’t be able to shake.

Will Schmierer 13:31
But, that out of all combination Perfect Storm, everything that could go wrong could go wrong. That’s, you know, to have an ischemic stroke at 37 you have to do, I mean, again, it could happen to anybody at any time, at any age, in any shape, but, you know, to have an ischemic stroke, really, you have to do a significant amount of work and damage to your body to really put that much level of, that bigger stress level on it.

Bill Gasiamis 13:58
You put a lot of effort in for sure.

Will Schmierer 14:00
Yeah, a lot of effort into the wrong things, really.

Bill Gasiamis 14:04
What people don’t realize, a lot of people don’t realize that when, when somebody’s overweight, in fact, they’re doing all the things that somebody would do who’s not overweight, they’re doing the same repetitive tasks all the time, and the tasks that the person who’s overweight has chosen are just make are the ones that make you gain weight, and the task the person who’s not overweight has chosen are the ones that make you not gain weight.

Bill Gasiamis 14:31
It’s the same amount of effort and energy, and some of it might be unconscious, some of it is conscious, but a lot of it is just where you put your time, and if you put your time in a different place, you get a different outcome. Now, I know it’s not that simple, right, but right. Let’s just take it up a little bit to a high level discussion so that we can kind of just talk about all it is, is what you focus on, is what you get, what you repeat is what you get.

Will Schmierer 15:01
Yeah for sure, I mean, and you know, what’s amazing too, is that I I’m a guy that likes to have hobbies, I’m curious, I’m constantly curious. Like, I mean, maybe that was part of it, really the the alcohol was really the only way I was able to cope in my 30s, to shut my brain down in order to go to sleep, because I didn’t have the right tools, the right mechanisms like you said, I mean, I’ve refocused that energy into my recovery, into running now, which is amazing considering, not only did I have a stroke, I think I diagnosed with MS, no family history.

Will Schmierer 15:36
Like, nothing, it just MS out of the blue, and you know, if I had put my health first, the way I’m putting it now, I wouldn’t be in this spot, and for better or worse I think I’m able to handle it, but I certainly would be loving, you know, I’d be remiss to say I not having a stroke certainly would make things a lot easier. It’s like, I like doing difficult things, which is great, but that’s why, like ‘Could I make it a little less difficult? I told the MS, but I could have certainly done some things to really not have the stroke, for sure.

Bill Gasiamis 16:14
What I like about this situation is the massive change, obviously, but also the fact that what happened to you didn’t kill you. Because let’s face it, people at your weight at that time often have a stroke or a heart attack, and that’s it.

Will Schmierer 16:29
That’s it, yeah, that was a real eye burner, honestly. I mean, I know it sounds corny when people say it, but I am lucky to be alive, and I think I channeled that in in the right way. I’m lucky to be able to do that, some people aren’t. It’s a lot of work, and it’s a fun challenge, I guess, given the circumstances and the fact that there’s no magic pill for curing stroke, but yeah, just, I’m kind of grateful for it.

Will Schmierer 16:58
Actually, because I kind of get so I always talk about second chance at life, because it’s really like ‘Okay, well, you know, not ideal, but now I get this opportunity to really, like, kind of a do over, you know, it’s again, not the path I would have chosen, not the path I enjoyed, necessarily, but it’s, you know, gotta make the best of it.

Bill Gasiamis 17:18
So as you reflect back, right, because that before and after photo, that’s a great thing to remind yourself about where you were and how far you’ve come. Do you look back and how do you reflect on that and all the things that you’ve achieved? What’s the internal conversation like about that now?

Will Schmierer 17:41
Well, the internal conversation is always dynamic and eventful, I mean, it’s easy to see and say now, and I know I’m going to keep growing and getting better, It’s very motivating. It wasn’t easy in the beginning, it’s not right, it’s hard, you’re just figuring out what to do, how to do it, how much help you need, how to push yourself.

Will Schmierer 18:05
But I think, you know, coming up on the five year anniversary, now it’s like, alright, the work that I’ve been putting in, even though it’s small, changes each and every day, and it’s hard to really see that it’s, apparent that I put in the work. Again, I would rather had an easier path to that I would rather corrected it before the mistake.

Will Schmierer 18:25
Even, you know, mistakes probably not the right word, but you know, rather than not having the stroke and not be, you know, paralyzed half my body, although I will say, I have kids, and I was not opposed to the rehab inpatient here in the States, because it was like, alright, well, I guess this is a vacation. But you know, I do try to look at the positive side of things, and sure, that was stressful and tax on my wife and attacks on my family, but all in all, I think that’s part of it too is that I’m self motivated.

Will Schmierer 18:59
But the fact that I have three kids and a wife, that just fuels the motivation and so many people, I’m sure, like yourself, kind of brushed me aside after my stroke, and I’m not a vindictive person, but like if you brush me aside, you know that East Coast New York guy comes out swinging, you don’t want 628 swinging, trust me, it’s not going to end well.

Will Schmierer 19:28
The MS is interesting, because I, again, I had that stroke in December 2019, so I was in the kind of the regular hospital during the holidays, because they didn’t want to transfer me into the new year, over to the rehab facility here in Jacksonville, Florida. And I learned a lot there in the the early days, but then the MS, really kind of was not only surprising, but it it then affected the so I came out of inpatient rehab at the end of January 2020. Was home for about a week, watched the Super Bowl, woke up the next morning talking funny, which was strange.

Will Schmierer 20:09
Because I hadn’t been talking funny for my original stroke, I mean, I had some speech issues, but not like major in the beginning, and then went back to the hospital, same place that I had this stroke because it didn’t know where else to go, because we were so new to this area at the time, and it’s fine. They ran, they made sure I didn’t have a second stroke this this time, they made sure, and after a bunch of tests, it could have been cancer, they thought maybe it was brain cancer, then thought it was a brain tumor.

Will Schmierer 20:09
And I know you’ve had kind of a similar experience, a lot of different things with doctors. But thankfully, after the Spinal Tap, they were able to tone in on what it was and it was MS, and it messed up the entire left side of my body. So I was a real treat to be around.

Will Schmierer 20:55
And so you’re talking February 2020, both, you know, both sides, one side physically debilitated the right side, and then the left side was thankfully mostly temporary, because I think that was kind of corrected for the in large part, or at least enough, to be functional on the left hand side of my body by the time I came out, right before the pandemic to come back home. So it’s a that’s a interesting twist to add to the journey. Is that, I never know, is it stroke? Is it a mess? Like, yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 21:27
I can relate to that in a way.

Will Schmierer 21:27
Fun is a word.

Bill Gasiamis 21:27
Fun, fun is a word, yeah. I can relate to that in a way, because I had a thyroid surgery about 18 months, 16 months after my brain surgery, and the fatigue was debilitating from the brain stuff, right? The stuff that happened with the stroke, trying to get out of that fatigue situation was really complicated, and then I had this reoccurrence of the fatigue got really bad at one point, and what it was is thyroid. Had a goiter, which is a large growth on one side of the thyroid, and that was impacting in the way that it was working.

Bill Gasiamis 22:09
And the thyroid gland is one of the main glands that has a massive role to play with the brain and how your brain functions, amongst other things, like, it’s the main gland anyway, but it has a massive impact on the way that your brain works, and it cause when it’s not running well, it causes brain fog and fatigue.

Bill Gasiamis 22:31
And I remember going to doctors after both of them, after the two diagnosis, and sort of going, okay, so what am I deal with, which one are we dealing with? Which is the one that I have to work on? How do I know if it’s brain fog from and fatigue from the thyroid, or is it brain fog and fatigue from the stroke? Give me some guidance. Of course, they’ve got no idea, they know how to say it’s that causing it or it’s this causing it, and then I had thyroid surgery, and they removed half the thyroid.

Bill Gasiamis 23:04
And when they do that, there is a quite a bit of time before the body gets comfortable with the half, the other half of the thyroid gland, sort of stepping up to the plate and doing the job. But in that time, I’ve got to adjust everything, I’ve got to adjust my diet, I’ve got to reduce, I’ve got to completely reduce, gluten, sugar, dairy, all that kind of stuff, because they’re inflammatory and the thyroid overworks.

Bill Gasiamis 23:34
So when you got half a thyroid and you’re chucking in all this stuff, it doesn’t operate as well, and you kind of notice it with weight gain, and you also notice it with energy levels the brain and all that kind of stuff. So I know now, because it’s been such a long time post, and they’ve technically removed that issue from the brain, that the blood vessel that bled that some of my I kind of know that the fatigue that I experienced is around the stroke is the one which is kind of like, my brain’s fried, I can’t get any more computer work done, I can’t send emails, that type of stuff.

Bill Gasiamis 24:15
But then the other fatigue that comes from the thyroid is one where, like, my body’s completely spent where I can’t actually do anything physical, and all I can do is lie down on the couch and just recover and hope to get to bedtime and then have a sleep and that’s about it. It’s a real bizarre experience to navigate the two and with MS on one side and the ischemic stroke that happened on the other side. I can only imagine, I’m still figuring out. Yeah, so does your does your right side feel differently at all because of the MS?

Will Schmierer 25:02
Good question, I think I’m still figuring out the exact thing and feelings constantly because now I think I said this earlier, but now I’m starting to run quite a bit, and have been for the last couple years. So it’s always hard to tell, is it stroke necessarily, is it because I ran a ridiculous amount of miles? I mean, I do anywhere from 10-15, to upwards, almost a marathon some days, depending on the day or how I’m feeling. Because sometimes I’ll just keep going if I feel good, which, of course, always comes back to bite me in the mud, because the next day is brutal.

Will Schmierer 25:39
But kind of similar to you, I kind of work beyond the computer a good amount I do a lot of getting up, and lot more flexibility and getting up, you know, I really try never to be at the desk for more than three hours without getting up, and that probably is. Honestly, it’s probably never more than an hour, hour and a half without getting up and just moving, but it happens.

Will Schmierer 26:10
Same thing, it’s like, I can kind of tell brain fog at the end of the day is definitely stroke MS. Could just be, like, some days, things just, I was saying this to somebody else I was talking to today, where it’s like, just takes me a bit more to get going in the morning, like I go to bed early. Now, I focus on my sleep, I focus on recovery, I used to love working behind the computer all day, then taking breaks and hanging out with my kids in the evenings.

Will Schmierer 26:40
Then I would kind of sit on the couch, or sit on and share and do computer work while watching TV to kind of wind down. But lately, I’ve been finding that, like, I’m just, you know, it’s like, I’d rather just wake up early, I think, and kind of spend an hour to, kind of, it sounds so silly, but just to take a shower in the morning, brush my teeth, do those basic things in the morning. It’s like, I really need good, solid hour, hour and a half most days, you know, but that’s some days, it’s not luxury I have. So, yeah, yeah, it’s a constant struggle.

Will Schmierer 27:15
I’m always working on things, I’m still doing things that is again, to talk about somebody else about this today, kind of recently started breaking out some of the old tools from the early days that, when you have the stroke and you have these events and you buy different tools or therapy things, and it’s like, it’s funny, because I’m about to hit the five year mark here in a couple months, and it’s like, I just broke out the putty to kind of work on my hands.

Will Schmierer 27:41
Because I was like, this is feeling stiff, why is this feeling stiff? And I can’t tell if it’s Jim or the MS, because I think more than I realize, and this is my own fault, kind of like, I’m so focused on the stroke sometimes that I forget that the MS is maybe the thing, and it doesn’t really matter, because it’s like I got both, I got to deal with it. Does it really matter? It’s always interesting, I guess, never a dull moment.

Bill Gasiamis 28:11
Yeah. What’s the path forward with the MS? How do they treat it? What do they do with it?

Will Schmierer 28:16
Yeah, so I’m on a pretty aggressive treatment here. My neurologist, and I definitely decided early on to try to get I was able to get grandfathered into a treatment that a lot of insurances here in the states weren’t covering, I don’t have to do a daily or a weekly thing. it’s a two time a year infusion, it’s at a cancer center. They kind of do it very much like that, and it’s twice a year, and I kind of love it. It’s a nice day off, it doesn’t I mean, it’s cool, because they give you these, the stuff, and you feel great coming out of it, and then, like, the next day, it’s like, you hit a wall again.

Will Schmierer 28:56
But, it’s good, I like that, I know there’s other treatments, it works for me. I think because I can imagine jabbing myself every week or every day, that just seems tiresome. To be honest, I got enough going on, by the time I get warmed up for the day and all that running and all the work that I do, like it works for me. It’s called localist, it’s a pretty I think it works with my type of MS. So there’s obviously many types of ms, but mine’s kind of, it’s called tumor active, which, you know, makes sense, right? Because they thought I had a brain tumor.

Will Schmierer 29:34
They thought I might have brain cancer. Thankfully, honestly, thankfully, it was MS. That’s what I always said, it’s like ‘You know what? And that sounds like the best of those three options. So, you know, again, I wouldn’t wish it upon my worst enemy, especially not in the succession that I had things so quickly. I always say this, it’s like getting hit with a baseball bat in your stomach, having the stroke. I got up, I started doing work, and then somebody’s.

Will Schmierer 33:51
While during the pandemic, but I’m a talker, I’m from Jersey, New York, and for me, actually, it was the swallowing thing was a big issue in the beginning, after the MS, because, like ‘Oh well, you can’t eat anything. But, like, they only gave me food through a straw initially, and I was like ‘Well, we’re gonna figure this out because I was still pretty big, and I’m even now, I work out a ton. I do a lot running, but like, you’re not going to stop me from eating, I’m going to swallow it a hole and choke kill myself, or I’m gonna.

Will Schmierer 40:34
Yeah, you got to wrestle that food out of my hand, at least when I want it, because I’ve kind of changed my diet, I kind of unintentionally do a lot of fast things, so I eat kind of irregularly compared to most people.

Bill Gasiamis 40:52
Did the alcohol obviously stopped immediately after all this experience and your eating habits were they also not the best eating habits while you were drinking the amount that you were drinking.

Will Schmierer 41:10
Yes, correct, I was eating absolute garbage, that’s entirely fair. I think I fell into the pattern that probably a lot of 30 year old dads, I know plenty that do this, right? Like your dad, you’re working, you’re putting food on the table. If your kids are a little younger, it’s like ‘Well, I don’t want to waste this food. I was like, I hated when we would go out to eat, I wouldn’t have ought people to waste food, I’m not sure why. I didn’t just pack it up and eat it later. But like, yeah, the drinking often led to a very late night snack.

Will Schmierer 41:41
And it wasn’t like ‘Let me have one of something. It was like ‘You know, think about. I don’t know if you went to university or college, but even when you’re a kid, right? You go out, you party, and you usually end with eating of some kind, right? But that’s, I think the human body is kind of built for college. The problem is, once you get out of college or university or whatever, it’s like ‘Okay, well, the body has to go, yeah. You have to be a normal person at this point, you can do it for a couple years, but that’s, that’s the window, right?

Will Schmierer 42:12
And if you keep doing that for a couple, like, a decade plus, that’s where you run into problems. So, yeah, I am a very efficient, I really try to make things easier on my wife the last couple years. I sort of do my own thing, but we sleep as family, and I, my kids obviously don’t want to eat the stuff I eat. I eat pretty healthy now, like, I’m really cognizant, there’s snacks that get in here, here and there, but I really try not to eat super ultra processed food. I mean, I really try to, you know, it’s a process, but I’m always eating steak, chicken, really focusing on meat.

Will Schmierer 42:51
I’ve tried keto that worked pretty well, actually, especially in the early days of running, I was surprised how well it worked, because, again, I’m still a big guy, right? Like, you don’t think necessarily keto is an interesting diet, right? Because it’s predominantly meat, no carbs, and I was like running a ton, but I seem to keep going, I mean, I’m like, Forrest Gump, like, the only person I know really well, at least, is myself, who can go keto and run 20 miles a day. I mean, that’s not, I don’t think typical.

Bill Gasiamis 43:24
It’s not typical, but you kind of become fat adapted, you become adapted to taking the energy from the food that you’re consuming and burning that for fuel, and once you kind of adapt, and your body kind of understands the difference, then it doesn’t require as much carbs to get the same job done, to get the same outcome, and I probably did, maybe not a strict keto diet, but I did that for probably the best part of about four years after the first incident that I had, and I lost a ton of weight, I wasn’t exercising or doing any of that, but I was sharp, my brain was sharp.

Bill Gasiamis 44:06
And then I kind of fell into a little bit of a slump, where I was back on the carbs and all that kind of stuff, and then recently, I tried the carnivore diet, which is nothing but meat ‘My God, what a difference that makes to you. In a my brain just completely came alive, I needed to sleep less, I was so much more productive, I lost a ton of weight, I was feeling amazing all the time.

Bill Gasiamis 44:35
My testosterone went through the roof, everything changed and and I know there’s a little bit of evidence, there’s a lot of evidence now about keto, ketogenic diets, and yeah, for brain health, and for and for neurological health. And there’s just a lot of stigma around, it is just massive stigma.

Will Schmierer 45:02
Yeah, because it gets popular, and at least here in the States, I’m sure you’ve heard of Joe Rogan and people like that to do keto and carnivore and like, why wouldn’t you want to follow what Joe Rogan’s doing? I mean, you don’t have to like him or love him, or you can hate him. But the guy is 57 and obviously he’s a much physically smaller person than me, but that’s the shape I want to be in at 57, don’t you? like, I mean.

Bill Gasiamis 45:28
it’s a machine.

Will Schmierer 45:29
Yeah, It’s just strange to me, I think people you know guilty of this too, right? I’ll have a preconception or a misconception, and then like, I’ll kind of like, you know, I wasn’t always the biggest Joe Rogan fan, I used to watch UFC back in the early 2000s when I came out of college, and I used to do MMA trained down in Miami before I met my wife, and kind of moved around up and down the East Coast, but a lot of my friends did it back in Jersey, and I just think, maybe you feel this way too because of the stroke, probably because I’m getting a little older now.

Will Schmierer 46:05
I’m in my 40s, I’m like things I used to believe. Obviously I don’t believe, and it’s like, I don’t know, you know, I’m just, I’m really more educated, and I try to pay close attention to things. I think it’s the thing for me as a stroke survivor, or even with the MS, it’s more about just I’m all about trial and error, right? Like, there’s no harm in trying something like keto. And I was surprised too, I mean, I’m not strict keto all the time, because that’s tough. I think, sometimes you need a car.

Bill Gasiamis 46:05
And you can’t get you can’t be involved in in everyday life with other people and, right? And always go ‘Oh, look, I’m not eating this, or I’m not going to do that. It’s really difficult.

Will Schmierer 46:50
Well, it’s not even fun. Like, who wants to live life like that? Like, are you really going to be so dogmatic that you can’t have, like, I don’t know, I came to think of what I would want, but, like, that’s Halloween coming up here in the States. What am I going to not have? Like, a recent have, like, a Reese being Buttercup or, speak something for my kids, like, if I’m cutting out sugar, 99% of the time, I could have sugar once in a while, I mean, I’m big on sugar, obviously, because it’s that’s a whole thing too now, but it’s terrible.

Bill Gasiamis 47:16
Sugar is terrible, and the thing about what you’re saying is, you know the Joe rogans of the world, who tend to polarize society. You know you either hate him or love him, just get curious about what he’s doing that’s working. Don’t worry about the rest of this stuff, if you if you come across somebody who you would not associate with, but is doing something that is seeming to be good for their health and helping them overcome a condition or whatever.

Bill Gasiamis 47:44
Get curious about why they’re doing it, how they’re doing it, and if it might be something that’s applicable to you, and don’t worry about their politics or what they believe in, or any of that stuff. Forget that I reck, I remember, like way back in episode 6, before it was the recovery after stroke podcast, and I was just interviewing people who had overcome different health challenges. For about the first 20 episodes, I interviewed people from all over the world about different things.

Bill Gasiamis 48:11
One of the people who I interviewed was a lady called Natalie Schultz, and she was recovering from multiple sclerosis, and we’re talking about 2015 and she had completely changed her diet, and she had discovered the work of Dr. David Perlmutter and a few other doctors who were early on writing books and texts and putting content out about removing sugar, gluten, dairy, from alcohol from the diet. And she basically said that the multiple sclerosis was that bad that she had.

Bill Gasiamis 48:50
She was not able to walk anymore, and even though she still has the scars of multiple sclerosis that have occurred in her head. The Sclerosis is damaged the brain, right? She has been able to recover quite well, and her physical therapy has got her in a state where she’s very active, and now she’s able to do a whole bunch of different things that she couldn’t do and that she was on a really terrible trajectory, and that’s literally all she did was change her diet.

Bill Gasiamis 49:22
She stopped taking sugar and gluten and dairy, and she started to introduce things that she hadn’t before, which was salad, protein, dairy, sorry, protein like meat, chicken, fish. She just increased protein rich foods, a little bit of fiber through her vegetables and her salads, and she stopped having seed oils and all that kind of stuff, and she just started notice a messing, a massive difference.

Will Schmierer 49:51
Yeah, it’s wild, how all the things I’m sure you kind of grew up this way too, right? Low fat, no fat that you know, I think there was margarine, butter, and it’s like ‘Well, everything we heard, so both kind of coming, yeah. I mean, not all of it, but probably close to 95% of it, at least, which is wild, you know, eggs, it’s amazing.

Bill Gasiamis 50:16
Eggs was a big thing, that it’s gonna cause heart attacks, cholesterol, all that kind of stuff. I mean, it’s nothing healthier than eating a really good egg.

Will Schmierer 50:26
Yeah, the one thing I’m still, like, uncertain about, and because I had the ischemic stroke and the MS, and I did actually have heart issues, didn’t have a hole in my heart, but I just because of the smoking and the drinking and all the whatever, I don’t even know what caused what at this point, like it’s just, I am always a little hesitant with too much hurt me, but I love steak, and I think I’ve seen the benefits of steak, but I do sort of still always worry about that, a little bit like they always say you can’t overeat steak, but they also aren’t me, you know what I mean.

Will Schmierer 50:59
You can’t overeat steak if you’re, like, five foot two, 110, pounds, or, you know, 50 kilos. But if you’re six foot eight and eating steak the way I used to drink, that’s probably not a healthy amount of steak, you know what I mean. So they start to always be careful and times, and I’m trying to always get better at that.

Bill Gasiamis 51:17
Yeah, everything in moderation. Is that your moderation, though, looks like my overeating, though, like your plate of steak would be too much for me.

Will Schmierer 51:27
Yeah probably even still now, and I’m paying attention to it right, like, I’m not weighing things, but I’m definitely looking at the package like ‘Okay, well, you don’t need two pounds of steak for a Thursday night dinner. You need, yeah, maybe more than six ounces, but maybe not a pound and a half, that’s interesting to me.

Bill Gasiamis 51:49
Everything kind of in moderation and in line with your particular version of your body, your structure, etc. And there’s some people that can’t do red meat at all. Like, I know, I get it, there’s some. A mate of mine ran 100 kilometer marathon two weeks ago. He doesn’t eat red meat, he just can’t do it, and it’s not because he’s a vegan or anything like that, he eats fish and other other meats, just can’t eat it, and it just doesn’t go down.

Will Schmierer 52:17
I mean, actually, I wanted to say that because you were saying it’s one of the great things about the very about the various diets and different things, and I think that’s always a big thing I’m talking about it too. Is like it? You know, consider the professionals advice, like, generally speaking, as they’re speaking to a whole group, right? But you gotta, sort of, I think I probably didn’t pay attention to this until my stroke, but I really, obviously now pay attention to my body, I listen to my body.

Will Schmierer 52:45
I do all the things that I think, you know, I think I’m doing a lot of the right things. But even if I’m not, like, I’m gonna be aware of that pretty quickly. So like, if keto wasn’t working, it stopped keto, and I would go back to, like, honestly, I want to try carnivore, but I haven’t committed to, like, a full month of carnivore, because I just feel like I’m buying so much meat that it might be counterproductive, like it, but it’s defining a balance, right? It is, I’m sure I could do it.

Bill Gasiamis 53:12
It is something you definitely have to plan, gotta tell the family as well, so that there’s no possibility that you’re going to get through, you know, three days where you’re not doing it, and then five days where you are and three, can you just actually want to do a once, try it and understand it, and then kind of get it out of your system, which is what I did, without planning it, I haven’t been able to get back to a full month of just carnivore like I haven’t been able to get back to it now.

Bill Gasiamis 53:48
I’ve researched it a lot and saying that there’s a lot of people responding about it, talking about having done it for a year or two years or three, and some people don’t do well after a certain period of time, it takes several months, and they start noticing things that they’re it’s not ideal for them. And then they introduce some additional items into their diet, and things settle down again. So it is hardcore, it’s not for everybody, I’m not right. We are not recommending anything.

Will Schmierer 54:18
Yeah, for sure.

Bill Gasiamis 54:20
We’re just talking about our own experience, right? And it just, I’m a curious guy, like you saw, I’ll give that a go. Like, I’ve gone a month without eating meat, you know, I’ve done all of that stuff.

Will Schmierer 54:32
Yeah, I even got into before I figured out how bad it was for me. But like, some of the non-meat, meat, you know, I was trying that early on during the pandemic, and obviously it turns up that’s garbage, but like at least for me again, it’s highly processed.

Bill Gasiamis 54:48
It’s highly processed, it’s probably something that most people should keep away from.

Will Schmierer 54:52
Oh, yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 54:53
Tell me about your podcast, tell me about the work that you do and why you’re doing that now.

Will Schmierer 54:58
So the podcast I kind of just started. So I did, I started a podcast after my stroke, I think by December of 2020, I was just starting getting back to walking, and a lot of people would always tell me ‘Oh, Will you should have podcast. Blah, blah, blah. Started a podcast, it was literally called ‘The loveable idiot, back then, and it was just kind of like you, but I wasn’t interviewing people, I was just kind of like talking, and it was kind of actually, it was a way for me to work on speech, talk to all my friends family.

Will Schmierer 55:32
I mean, there were plenty of listeners, actually more listeners than my current podcast, because it was just kind of would never compare myself to Joe Rogan, but it was that kind of style and format, right where you’re just talking about what’s going on in the world, and kind of a commentary. It was just for fun, you know, but I knew I was pretty good at it, because I used to do a little bit of stand up, and I definitely did improv back my Miami days, and just always been a guy that’s curious and loves having fun, and kind of, a better term, shooting shit.

Will Schmierer 56:03
And I love doing podcasts, but sometimes, I mean, with lovable survivor, I do a lot of single person episodes. I do so, yeah, so that shifted. I stopped doing ‘Lovable idiot, and changed ‘The lovable survivor. Because I felt like, at that point I was ready to, sort of, you know, in this different for everybody, right? Some people never want to share their journey or their story, some people share through writing, if they can write, some people, you know, there’s plenty of mediums, some people are all over Tiktok like, it just depends what works for you.

Will Schmierer 56:36
But I had a little bit of broadcast background, and just always loved radio and Howard Stern, Joe Rogan every all the podcasters, honestly, I mean, I can’t think, I mean, there’s a few that I’m not a fan of, especially nowadays, because I thought it was a while West back in the day. Now there’s like, some people, they start a podcast, say, a business, and they think they’re going to be great at it.

Will Schmierer 57:00
And it’s just like, I mean, I don’t know if I’m great, but I got a lot more attitude and pizzazz and showmanship than some of these people. They’re like ‘I have a podcast on collecting nickels. Like, who? Who’s listening to that?

Bill Gasiamis 57:18
Yeah, you just surprised me.

Will Schmierer 57:20
Yeah because they put it on YouTube, and then all of a sudden it’s like ‘Oh yeah. Turns out 50 million people collect nickels all over the world, like, so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. I mean, I used to be a woodworker, and I say used to, because obviously, after stroke and MS, I did a lot of work on myself and my body.

Will Schmierer 57:39
But I’m not, haven’t fully got back to woodworking as a hobby, just because trying to keep the fingers intact and, like, I just, I don’t need a slip on a table saw, or really any saw. So, yeah, it’s a great hobby, and, you know, I could listen to woodworking podcasts, but probably most people couldn’t, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.

Will Schmierer 57:39
But with ‘Loveable survivor, I decided in 2022 to really start sharing my story, because I thought I had it. You know, like anybody that’s stroke survivor, or especially a stroke survivor with, like, an additional fun thing, like you with thyroid, or me with the MS, it’s like ‘Okay, I think I can teach people some valuable stuff. I can share my story. And like you said, it’s not really about me being dogmatic or never want to tell people what they should or shouldn’t do, but here’s kind of, here’s what I’ve been through.

Will Schmierer 58:34
And you know, I like it more than a book, right? Because a lot of stroke survivors, I mean, I know you’ve written a book, and, no, please don’t take this the wrong way. But like, there are plenty, like, I think you know what I’m talking about, right? There’s some survivors of, like, I wrote a book, and it’s like ‘Okay, good, and that’s great. And, yeah, like, I haven’t read your book, but I probably should, and I will actually after this, but I like conversation.

Will Schmierer 59:01
I like hearing kind of the podcast and the full story, even if you’re interviewing somebody else, I don’t know if you do solo episodes, but I mean, I think that probably be interesting, right? Because you’re able to share your journey in a different way, and I think it’s good to do both personally, because I love the interview style, and I need to do more of those. But I like doing the solo ones, because it’s like ‘Oh, I can just record for an hour, you know, and turn that into a podcast. Because some people prefer learning on a podcast.

Will Schmierer 59:29
Some people prefer a blog, which is why I have survivor science, because I kind of, you know, I’m trying to get everything more streamlined in a way that I dig, kind of where I can take sort of a broad perspective on the week. Here’s what I’m thinking about this week, and like, I can do the podcast episode on that, I can release a blog post or newsletter for people who prefer reading versus listening. And it’s been an interesting journey, starting to do some collabs with some different people.

Will Schmierer 1:00:00
Here over in the states, and I know you’re in Australia, right? Are you in the Gold Coast? sorry I don’t know to say these things, I only know mostly Tasmania side.

Bill Gasiamis 1:00:11
I’m in the south, I’m in Melbourne in Victoria, which is on the east coast.

Will Schmierer 1:00:18
So Sydney side, not Tasmania side. It’s embarassing, I didn’t finished that sentence, I have my uncle is an ex-pat he moved in Tasmania with his wife and my cousins when they we’re kids and now they’re older, so they’re kind of like far coast, most side of Sydney’s side. I don’t know enough about that, I travel a lot over Europe. Sorry I really don’t know terminology for Australia, no offense, for me Australia is Australia.

Bill Gasiamis 1:01:05
It’s all good man no worries, I’m east coaster, all good no worries.

Will Schmierer 1:01:23
Yeah sorry I got little distracted there, but yeah the podcast is fun, I like doing it, not trying to make millions out of it, obviously. I’m kind of evolving things coz right now I have this podcast which came obviously out of original podcast which is ‘Lovable idiot.Which is great, I think I’m gonna later I think after this video will morph that into survivor science, under survivor science umbrella, you know, big things but here in the States.

Will Schmierer 1:01:59
And I think Australia does more better job than this, and Europe in general seems do a better job in connecting stroke survivors. The healthcare system here seems to be a little bit less.

Bill Gasiamis 1:02:20
The healthcare system is good, in that, you get free healthcare, nobody gets to turned away, it’s not perfect, but my surgery it was all done under the free system, recovery and everything, costs me nothing, zero, I did’nt paid any dollar for any of my 4 years of saga.

Will Schmierer 1:02:56
That’s amazing.

Bill Gasiamis 1:03:01
Yeah, but connecting people, we’re getting better. The stroke foundation was doing a different kind of job, their job was to prevent stroke and raise awareness, and that kind of stuff, but they recently shifted to support stroke surivors as well, that added that to mandate and that they do as well. And that’s a very different feeling, because now they’re including strokes in compensates, they’re including now in all the things, in research, etc.

Bill Gasiamis 1:03:38
So there’s a whole bunch that wasn’t happening and that’s happening now, and now they’re trying to connect people, that what I wasn’t getting, I wasn’t getting a connection, that’s why this podcast exist. And I find my biggest audience is in the United States not in the Australia, which is bizzare and strange but I get it like a massive numbers in United States. 20 million, 300 million, numbers really make a big difference, like a number in Manhattan.

Will Schmierer 1:04:15
Literally, we’re I grow up there’s like 7 million people density population, let’s say half of the Australia.

Bill Gasiamis 1:04:32
That’s why my podcast exist, like 12 years ago there was nothing, it was just you’re on your own. And its improved a lot, and there’s more to go. It’s really good to see that lots of people doing stroke podcast. I think it will benifit if you bring under one of your umbrella.

Bill Gasiamis 1:04:59
It is more streamlined, for me, I record a podcast episode. This episode then becomes the audio. This audio then becomes a blog post and a transcription. And then from there, we take some clips, and those clips end up on YouTube. I’ve done some solo episodes, some of them have answered questions to stroke survivors who have asked me on Instagram, I’ll reach out and say to them, you know, what do you guys want to ask? Is there anything I can answer? And then I might do an hour video on that, but I struggle with one hour ones.

Bill Gasiamis 1:05:36
So recently, I’ve started to do, I’m going to do a series I’ve got about about 10 scripts ready? I’m going to do a series. I’ve already put out two of them, and I’m just going to put out another one next week, 6 min. videos. I talk about one particular topic.

Will Schmierer 1:05:54
Yeah, that’s a good idea. Actually, I like that, I think it’s important, right? Because there’s not a lot of stroke survivors who are like yourself, like, willing to talk about things, willing to have the different difficult conversations. Like, you know, some things about stroke are embarrassing, right? Like, I’ll say it because I don’t care, but like, I was paralyzed on the right hand side of my body in the beginning. Well, guess what? I’m right handed. Guess what’s hard to do? Certain things, wipe your butt. Yeah, and you gotta ask for help, right? Because your wife or spouse can’t always be there.

Will Schmierer 1:06:29
My wife is an angel and a sweetheart, and I love her, but she had other things, right? And like, she was very willing to help. And I thank God because, but eventually the day comes and you gotta have a nurse help you, and it’s embarrassing, humbling, all the things you think it is exactly what it is, that certainly opens up your eyes quickly, right? You’re like, All right, well, I guess we’re gonna ask for help, and I guess this is gonna happen, so let’s just get it all right.

Bill Gasiamis 1:07:06
That’s the aim for me as well. It’s just to talk about stuff that hasn’t been spoken about and to share stories. You know, I aim for it to be the biggest database of podcast of stroke survivor stories, so that anyone else who ever has one stumbles across it somewhere and goes ‘Ah, all right, I’m not alone. Okay, there’s going to be wisdom in these episodes. I’ll listen to them, and maybe that’ll help me in my recovery, that’s the whole idea.

Will Schmierer 1:07:32
I mean, that’s obviously the goal, but even if there isn’t, sometimes it’s like, you know, I’m sure somebody can glean something from something I’m saying, even if I have a random episode where I go off on the tangent, and stroke brain to us is kind of thing, a thing that happens sometimes. I mean, I’m not great at staying on script because, well, I don’t really like saying on scripts, and, you know, the improv days and the stand up and things like that. It’s but I enjoy speaking, and I enjoy having a conversation like we’re doing on this podcast.

Will Schmierer 1:08:01
Because I think that’s really where you get the best information. Like, I try not to overly edit my podcasts and episodes, and, you know, I need to do better about getting those things up on YouTube. I was in a good hoof then I got like, 25 episodes ahead and recording, and I just didn’t do the 25 videos, because, again, I got to streamline that process, that’s a bad on me.

Will Schmierer 1:08:01
But, you know, I think that’s part of being a stroke survivor too, is like ‘Hey, if you’re a stroke survivor, if you’re solo, like, you’re, what, 12 years into this now. So you, you know, I don’t want to say you you’re further or less further, but I, you know, you certainly have been a structure for longer than I have, so I imagine it he doesn’t matter about the amount of work it takes. It’s like, you know, it takes time to get get these things.

Bill Gasiamis 1:08:49
It does, it takes ages. I started in 2015 and it took me years before I started to get into the groove of one episode a week, and sometimes, bugs the hell out of me to have to do it, sometimes I enjoy it, sometimes I don’t. And at the beginning, I wasn’t committed to anything, so I’d put out an episode, nothing for a month, put out two episodes, nothing for a week, and it would just be all over the place, because I had to look after myself first. I’m most important, if I can’t be well and healthy, there’s no way I’m putting out a podcast episode, I don’t worry about it.

Will Schmierer 1:09:26
Yeah, and I’m not putting out a podcast if my kids are starving, or my wife needs help, like, as much as I want to commit to being, you know, kind of, I don’t want to. I hate the word creator, but yeah, I mean, that’s kind of what we’re doing, right? We’re creating content, and it’s honestly, I’m sure you feel the same way. It’s like I’ve spent, you know that every day for like so I did work after my stroke for about a year and a half, but after that, it just became obvious that I need to spend more time on my recovery and less time focus on work that mattered.

Will Schmierer 1:10:00
But like, in the grand scheme of things, like, again, I was developer. I was a engineering manager for a team at a web agency, and I love the team, I love working with the team, I love leading a team, but it’s like, you know, like you said, if I’m not taking care of myself first, how am I going to set an example for my kids? How am I going to help my wife works? Important? Do I really amazing job. I got to work with some of the biggest companies in the world doing agency work. But it’s like at some point it’s like, nobody cared.

Will Schmierer 1:10:32
I love writing code, I love to being a developer, but like, at the end of the day, like, I think there’s more important things. Like you said, it’s like ‘Let me save somebody else the years of struggle. Or, you know, it feels silly to say it comparison to you, because you obviously have been around this game for over a decade now, but yeah, like, if I can help aid somebody, even if it’s not all one on one, but it’s through a podcast.

Will Schmierer 1:10:59
I didn’t found out about breath work bill until 2022, and I hate the term breath work, because it sounds corny, right? I don’t know if you’re interested or not.

Bill Gasiamis 1:11:10
I have been, it’s overused, because nobody else knows what to say right, right?

Will Schmierer 1:11:15
Right, but breathing exercises, if somebody just said to me ‘Hey, will you were big and fat? Like, do you want to run? Do you want to figure out how to run now that you’re not a smoker and drinker? It’s like, Yeah, I do breathing exercises like that. That alone, that little tweak from breath work to breathing exercises, would have made all the difference in the world. I would have paid attention somewhere along the line of 39 years. And I’ll tell you real quick, you know, I’m sure you heard of the book breath by James Nestor.

Bill Gasiamis 1:11:46
No, I haven’t.

Will Schmierer 1:11:47
Oh check it out, so he, I think he used to be, I don’t know if New York Times, but he was kind of like a investigative journalist here in the States, and he wrote the book called breath, and that’s the book that I read. It was a recommendation for my sister, It came out in 2020 but I didn’t read it, of course, until I always joke about this, because my sister’s 18 months younger than me, but she always gives me good advice, but then I don’t actually listen to that advice till 18 months after.

Will Schmierer 1:12:16
So, I read it probably, I literally think it was June of 2022. Started reading it, I was ‘Oh, my God, this is what I need. Like, I learned that you could unblock your nose, and again, I was a former smoker, so like, I just thought I would have a perpetually stuffy nose forever. Well, it turns out, if you can unblock your nose, well from there, then you can breathe through your nose. Also what helps having a stroke and not being able to run fast. So I was already humbled in that area, so I was like ‘All right, let me try running.

Will Schmierer 1:12:49
And again, it was ugly and slow in the beginning, and most people would probably consider it walking, but it got me moving, and slowly but surely, it went from like, it’s embarrassing to say, but the running was just probably, like three miles an hour. I mean, I used to be able to walk five miles an hour before my stroke, without even thinking, like, that’s how big and long my legs are.

Will Schmierer 1:13:08
But because I was forced to go slow, I was able to breathe through my nose that whole time, right? And over time, I developed the endurance and it’s, it sounds so silly, but I literally felt like Forrest Gump, and I would literally laugh to myself every day, I was like, I’m fucking running, and I’m a stroke survivor with MS and all these other people who aren’t runners, who are supposedly in great shape because they go to the gym, they can’t run down the block, and of course, they could beat me because I wasn’t going fast, but like, I could go, that’s not the all damn day if I wanted to.

Will Schmierer 1:13:44
And some days I have, like, some days I started running, and I literally won’t even stop for like, four or five hours, like, if feeling good. So it’s those big eye opener for me, I think when I look back, there are certain moments thus far throughout my recovery where I was doing well and better the first couple years, but you know, it takes that first year to really, like, wrap your head around everything, plus the pandemic.

Will Schmierer 1:14:14
For me, just bad timing, right? Because I just had my all my stuff right before the pandemic, but in a way, I didn’t feel like I was losing out on the world, because everything was closed here in the States, even Florida. So I kind of got an advantage, if you want to call it that, but a slight advantage at the beginning of my stroke, because everybody was confined to the home, so I was able to do these things, but when I read that book breath, I was like this, not only did I need to know about this my own entire life, nobody ever mentioned it.

Will Schmierer 1:14:46
It was something I could have done that first year in a wheelchair, I could have started to improve my breathing and in circulation, because there’s so many benefits of breath breathing, I keep seeing breath work, and I hate it, but I always sorry. Comes out sometimes, but you’d be amazed how much it can help, and like, I had circulation issues, probably because the stroke, probably because I was 530 pounds. Like, you know, my legs looked like two baby walruses on a baby walrus, so, you know, and now they don’t.

Will Schmierer 1:15:18
Now, you could look at me now if I stood up, and you’re like, there’s no way you ever weighed 530 pounds. And it’s like, yeah, I know that’s it’s unfortunate that I let myself go to that point, because I should never have been that big. The breathing stuff, it really kind of like I said that circulation issues, some heart things, and it’s really calm my anxiety down. Because as a strokes are, you get a little bit of you take a little bit of a a little bit of a ding, I think at least initially, the first couple years, your self confidence goes down.

Will Schmierer 1:15:52
You get, at least me, I got, I would get a little anxious because I couldn’t talk the way I used to be able to talk, but like, so there’s some anxiety mixed with this. And anxiety is normal, right? And we don’t need a we don’t always need a pill for the anxiety, it’s just like, and I’m not saying this works forever, but, you know, if you just kind of take some deep breaths and you really get into this breath work. And again, I read the book by James nester, I just went way down the rabbit hole like you. I’m sure you do the same thing.

Will Schmierer 1:16:21
You find something like these diets or whatever’s working, and you find it, and you try it, you’re like ‘Oh my God. And it’s weird how many people kind of aren’t like us in that way, it’s like, I don’t know, but you I still go to, like, local stroke groups and stuff. Like, somebody last week, they’re like ‘Oh, well, I still love eating cake. And I’m like, I mean, listen, have a piece of cake.

Will Schmierer 1:16:21
But like, if you’re talking about trying to get better, and cake is the first word out of your mouth, I don’t think you’re disciplined or being, you know, it does take a discipline and obsession, good or bad, you really have to, like, you know, I thin.

Bill Gasiamis 1:17:03
I think you owe it to yourself, Man, you have to. I mean, I the one that makes me cringe the most is when you hear people say that they’re still drinking after stroke, alcohol, and sodas that just makes me cringe. I can’t come.

Will Schmierer 1:17:19
I mean if you have one soda once in a balloon, and you’re going out to a nice dinner, you know, I wouldn’t, because I’m just like, why? Like, yeah, but it’s okay, but I also drank first shit, way too cutting out sodas.

Bill Gasiamis 1:17:34
I agree, and I have one alcohol I’ll have one alcoholic drink every four months or six months, or whatever, and I’ll barely get through it, but I’ll have it, you know, because everyone else is having it, and the weather’s right, or whatever, you know it’s but yeah, when you hear people say that they still regularly drink, and people who drink sodas and smoke after stroke.

Will Schmierer 1:18:02
A very lovely woman who is, I think, she’s not the accountant at my accounting firm, but she’s somebody she has a higher position than Secretary, but she’s sort of the person that always answers the phone, her husband had a stroke around the same time as me, and she’s like ‘Oh yeah, my husband’s still smoking. I’m like, I mean, I just cringe. And it’s like, I know not everybody wants to save themselves, but like, I don’t know.

Bill Gasiamis 1:18:31
And it’s true, I’ve had that conversation with somebody that we know who had a stroke a little while after me, her husband had passed away. She’s in a 70s, right? And she had a stroke, and then she was quite unwell, and we were at a party together, and she was drinking, and I don’t it got somehow got onto drinking, and I think she might have said, you should have, she might have said, I should, maybe I shouldn’t be drinking, or maybe I’ll just have one, something like that.

Bill Gasiamis 1:18:57
Anyway, I didn’t bring it out. I didn’t start the conversation, but then when the conversation’s going, then I can’t resist and then she sort of said to me ‘Well, my husband’s there now. Like, I don’t really care about me. I don’t care what happens to me. And I’m like ‘That’s cool, so you don’t mind if you die? She goes ‘No, I don’t mind if I go. ‘Oh, that’s fair, what if you have another stroke and you live and then somebody else has to wipe your butt.

Will Schmierer 1:19:23
Yeah, I mean, that’s that.

Bill Gasiamis 1:19:26
That was it, that was the question, and that question, like, really triggered this person. It didn’t make her change anything, I only said it because the context allowed me to say it, I only said it because I’m a stroke survivor, and so was that person. So it was the right time to say it, but that’s that’s the way I see it.

Bill Gasiamis 1:19:44
That the way I see it is, if I do something to myself that causes another thing, and somebody has to wipe my butt forever, and now I caused that, then that’s not on. I don’t have a problem with people who are unwell and they’ve got to go through that transition, between being independent, losing independence, and then regaining your independence. And you need support and help.

Bill Gasiamis 1:20:06
No issue with that, and I don’t, and I’m not talking about other people, but me, I couldn’t live with myself if I did it again, because before my because I had a I had a congenital issue, a blood vessel that was faulty, but I created the perfect storm as well. I was drinking, I was smoking, I wasn’t sleeping well, I wasn’t eating, right? I was stressed. I was working too many hours, so I created the perfect storm to make it pop as well. Yeah, I’m not going to do that again.

Bill Gasiamis 1:20:35
That’s Those days are over. I went It’s too hard. It’s too hard on everybody to put them through that again and again and again from my stupidity, if life brings it on, well ‘That’s life I’ve I’ll accept that part, but I’m not going to do it to myself.

Will Schmierer 1:20:51
Yeah, it’s even like, with the MS sometimes, like, it’s not quite the same, but it’s like, you know, I’m very careful about when I walk and I run like, I when I run on the treadmill, like, sometimes I’ll hold on to the side, because what am I? I’m not gonna hurt myself on the treadmill trying to get better and then accidentally slip like it’s okay. I could hold on if I need to, you know, it’s or just anything, as you’re crazy.

Bill Gasiamis 1:21:16
Yeah, as we go to because we get to the end of this episode, and we kind of start to wrap up. I want I wondered if you can answer some questions that I ask everybody, which the first question is, is, usually it’s, what has stroke taught you, but you’ve had stroke and MS, so the question is, what has stroke taught you? What has MS taught you? Or what have they both taught you together?

Will Schmierer 1:21:40
They have both taught me together that I need to pay attention to my body, I need to take care of myself first. I know this is a cliche I answer, but I’m a father of three. My wife is deaf, I lost my parents a few years ago, so I’m sort of the oldest child. I have two sisters. Like, I don’t, you know they don’t need me, but like, I feel a sense of responsibility. It’s taught me to really be a little more calm, I mean, that’s always a work in progress, but live a more balanced, healthy life.

Will Schmierer 1:22:17
Explore myself, explore what works, I’ve learned I was always pretty, like I said, always pretty curious. So it’s not terribly shocking. Half I’ve kind of taken with going down rabbit holes, with the stroke and the MS, but just being much more intentional about a lot of things. It’s, again, it’s diet, it’s nutrition, it’s figuring things out, it’s working out, it’s finding that work life balance. I mean, now I consider myself a runner, which I never would have thought was the thing.

Will Schmierer 1:22:54
I love sports playing as a kid, but then, you know, I stopped sports, obviously, after college kind of and I just, I think I’ve learned not to not not to believe what other people say, but don’t let certain things. Don’t get into a mindset where you think you can’t do something because, yeah, you might not be able to do it yet. You might not be able to do it tomorrow, but just keep going and pushing. I mean, I’m 41 I have three kids, 21, 10 and nine, a wife who’s deaf and like I’m back in school going for a master’s degree, because I just I have this weird drive, it really is obsession.

Will Schmierer 1:23:39
And drive like nobody’s going to tell me no until, until my body tells me no. You know, I just yeah, just learn. I learned a ton, honestly, and I think I always knew these things deep down. Unfortunately for me, the stroke is more of a blip in the road, I think it’s like I was trying to do so much, so fast, for so long, that I really did learn to figure out how to do the same things I’ve always wanted to do, just do them at a more what I would call normal pace, like here, like life really is kind of a marathon.

Will Schmierer 1:24:17
If you’re doing the best you can and you can.you know, lay your head on the pillow every night and fall asleep and feel like you’ve given the day the best you can and keep going, I don’t know it’s I know that’s not a great answer, but I just feel like I’ve learned a lot about myself over the last five years, and I really hate to say fortunate for having this stroke, but in those way I was because I was 530 pounds in an alcoholic and the cigarette smoker and things I’m not anymore.

Will Schmierer 1:24:47
So again, I think I would have preferred to learn it a different way, but I feel good about where I’ve come from, where I’m going and where I’m headed.

Bill Gasiamis 1:25:00
What’s been the hardest thing about this journey for you?

Will Schmierer 1:25:06
Truthfully, asking for help and realizing that I once operated at a speed with which was, by all accounts, pretty insane in terms of being mentally sharp, quick witted, just even behind a computer, typing 100 words minute back in the day, 8monitors, like, none of it’s necessary, and like, who was I impressing? Like, you know, there’s a level of speed at which a person should operate, and there’s just be honest fucking insanity, and it’s like, you can’t maintain that speed for that amount of time. Like, I’m not Elon Musk.

Will Schmierer 1:25:58
I’m not trying to be Elon Musk, or, or any of those people like, you know, I just want to be a fairly normal guy, and I was trying to operate at a speed with which was just not sustainable, to be honest, and that’s probably what led to some of the smoking and the drinking and the not being able to sleep and the constant mind chatter, and it’s just, I learned it the wrong way, not the way I wouldn’t like to learn it, but now I know better.

Bill Gasiamis 1:26:26
And that part was that not asking for help, kind of what makes you do more things? Because if, if you ask for help, then somebody else is doing that task or or it’s being outsourced or something, you know what I mean, whereas when you’re not asking for help, then everything is on your shoulders. You got to do it all anyway.

Will Schmierer 1:26:47
Yeah, so that that’s a real struggle. So again, I operate, and always have operated at a very different speed. My wife, I love dearly, and she is a certain way, and her speed. She’s South American, Chilean, Miami, you know, that’s where we met, where we were. We met before we got married. And She has a more laissez faire attitude towards things in life. She’s much more about enjoying life. But for me, I don’t enjoy life unless we’re doing things or getting things done, or, like, you know, I can’t, like a lot of people, I can’t really enjoy the enjoyment time.

Will Schmierer 1:27:29
If I haven’t gotten a bunch of stuff done right. Like, with that work comes reward, and that’s kind of separate from having a stroke, but I just my mindset and like, I want to earn that downtime, that free time. I crush it all day, right then I can do some recovery stuff while I’m sitting and watching TV in the evening.

Will Schmierer 1:27:29
There’s no guilt around sitting down and doing nothing.

Will Schmierer 1:27:34
Yeah, and asking for help is just it’s tough because I want people to help at the speed with which I want to move. And I’ve had to really learn that that’s not how the rest of the world operates. So that’s what makes asking for help so tough for me, it’s not the actual asking for help, it’s like ‘Could I get your help, and could you also please do it as quickly and fast as I would like to do it, or we used to do it please. Now that’s really the issue with asking for help.

Bill Gasiamis 1:28:25
Wow, man, that’s crazy. Well, last question is, what would you like to say to the people that are listening and watching?

Will Schmierer 1:28:37
To the people listening and you know, whether you’re a survivor, caregiver, friend, family member, it it’s annoying as hell to hear that. It takes time, but it takes time and learning what’s best for you as a survivor, a caregiver, it doesn’t matter what role you play, they’re all important, and you know, realizing things are going to change, it’s not an easy path. There’s no magic pill for any part of the equation, it’s just, it’s really just continuously learning.

Will Schmierer 1:29:11
Be visual, be curious, ask questions, you know, support one another, support yourself. Again, whatever role you play if you’re not taking care of yourself, corny, cliche stuff, but true, if you don’t take care of yourself, you’re not going to be able to help yourself or anybody else who’s part of the equation. So, you know, just kind of do your best each and every day.

Will Schmierer 1:29:34
Be proud of what you do ‘Down day doesn’t mean it’s down week, down week doesn’t mean it’s down month. Like, just keep stay disciplined. Maybe not for everybody, but for the survivors out there, be obsessive about your recovery.

Will Schmierer 1:29:50
Be disciplined and keep working at it. I know seems so cliche and terrible, but I thought the same thing. Even probably three years ago, I was like ‘Ah, things aren’t going as fast as I want, but you’d be surprised. I fully believe you put in the work you’re you’re eventually going to see the results, it may not happen at the speed with which you want, but yeah, I just, I think that’s important.

Bill Gasiamis 1:30:17
Yeah, brilliant man, Will thank you so much for joining me on the podcast man.

Will Schmierer 1:30:21
Thanks.

Bill Gasiamis 1:30:21
I appreciate. Before we do go, just give us the links. Where can people find you? We’ll have the links on the show notes anyway, but where can people find you?

Will Schmierer 1:30:30
Yeah, you can find me, usually my handles, I’m all over social media. It’s either ‘Survivor Science or Survivor Side, depending on how many characters you’re allowed. You can also check out, I thhink Instagram, Facebook, X Twitter. They’re the same thing, Tiktok. Think lovable, kind of getting everything under one umbrella still.

Will Schmierer 1:30:52
So yeah, it’s a bit of a hodgepodge, but you go to survivorscience.com where you go to the podcast show, it has all the links and it’s not hard to find me, I kind of built the internet for most of the 2000s so you can google my name, if you could spell it, and you’ll find me pretty quickly.

Bill Gasiamis 1:31:09
Awesome, man. Thank you so much for being on the podcast.

Will Schmierer 1:31:12
Awesome, thank you Bill. Thanks for having me, I appreciate it.

Bill Gasiamis 1:31:15
That brings us to the end of episode, 327 I hope will story of resilience post traumatic, growth and transformation moved and inspired you as much as it did me. His journey from battling severe health issues including alcoholism and multiple sclerosis to become a dedicated runner and embracing a new lifestyle is a testament to the incredible capacity for change and growth after trauma, a heartfelt thank you to everyone who leaves comments on the YouTube channel and to those who have given five star reviews on Spotify and iTunes.

Bill Gasiamis 1:31:51
Your support helps other stroke survivors find hope and guidance through this podcast. If you haven’t already, please consider subscribing, liking and sharing this episode so that more people can discover these stories of post traumatic growth. For those who’d like to support the podcast further, visit patreon.com/recoveryafterstroke, every contribution helps share more stories like wills offering hope and insights to those navigating their recovery journeys. Thank you for joining me today, and I’ll see you on the next episode.

Intro 1:32:27
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The post Alcohol and Stroke Recovery: Will Schmierer’s Inspiring Path appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

In 2009, while on a family vacation in Vietnam, Antonio Iannella, author of Saigon Siren: A Stroke Survivor’s Life-Changing Moment Abroad, experienced a life-threatening brain hemorrhage caused by an arteriovenous malformation (AVM). The experience was terrifying, as he struggled to communicate with foreign medical staff, faced language barriers, and navigated an unfamiliar healthcare system. But it was in these challenging conditions that Antonio’s life after the stroke truly began, shaping both his journey and the powerful story he would later share in his memoir.

Like many stroke survivors, Antonio’s life after the initial crisis became focused on rehabilitation. The road to recovery was long and full of unique obstacles many face in stroke rehabilitation. The stroke left him with several physical limitations, including challenges with mobility, vision, and coordination. Each day brought new struggles, but it also revealed small victories that came with persistence. For Antonio, even learning to sit up or move his right hand again felt like huge milestones in his recovery after the brain hemorrhage. These small victories not only marked progress but served as reminders that life after stroke can still be meaningful, even if it looks different from before.

One of the hardest parts of stroke recovery is the emotional journey. For Antonio, rethinking his life purpose and adapting to his limitations became essential. His love for music faced a significant setback due to physical limitations, but he didn’t give up. Antonio adapted, learning to compose and create music with one hand. This adaptation allowed him to find joy in his creative pursuits, a powerful example of how finding purpose can redefine life after stroke. His experiences, captured in Saigon Siren, provide insight into the resilience that many stroke survivors find along the way.

Emotional support is essential for stroke survivors, and Antonio’s journey underscores the importance of community. He found comfort and strength in connecting with other stroke survivors who understood the ups and downs of recovery. This sense of community helped him cope with the unique emotional challenges of life after a brain hemorrhage, providing valuable insights and strategies for overcoming day-to-day struggles. Through his book, Saigon Siren: Memoir of a Stroke Recovery, Antonio offers readers an inspiring account of his journey, from the shock of the stroke to the long, slow climb of recovery. Writing became a therapeutic outlet for him—a way to process emotions, reflect on his growth, and reach out to others who might feel alone on their own paths to recovery.

Antonio’s experience serves as a testament to the power of resilience. Life after a brain hemorrhage, like his, is often marked by a series of setbacks, adjustments, and personal growth. In learning to let go of old expectations and accept a new normal, Antonio gained a sense of peace by living in the moment and focusing on what brings him joy and purpose. His story in Saigon Siren is a powerful reminder to other survivors that life after stroke, while challenging, can also be rewarding. The journey of adapting and overcoming the hurdles of stroke recovery opens up new perspectives, strengths, and possibilities.

Antonio’s message to other stroke survivors is simple yet powerful: Don’t let setbacks define you. Life after stroke might look different, but it’s full of potential. Recovery after a stroke isn’t about returning to who you once were but about discovering who you can become. Finding purpose, whether through creativity, community involvement, or sharing your story, can bring new meaning to life after stroke. If you or a loved one is navigating the journey of life after stroke, remember that support is available. Connecting with other survivors, discovering local resources, and finding inspiration in stories like Saigon Siren can offer guidance and reassurance.

Antonio Iannella’s journey in Saigon Siren: A Stroke Survivor’s Life-Changing Moment Abroad highlights resilience, adaptability, and purpose. Despite the difficulties posed by his AVM and his journey back to health in a foreign country, he emerged with a new perspective on life. His experience serves as an inspiring example for stroke survivors everywhere, showing that life after a stroke can be a time of growth, creativity, and unexpected joy. For anyone on a similar path, Antonio’s story stands as a beacon of hope—a reminder that, while recovery after a brain hemorrhage may take time, there is always room for possibility and growth in life after a stroke.

Discover Antonio Iannella’s inspiring story of life after a stroke, overcoming adversity abroad, and finding new purpose.

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Highlights:

00:00 Introduction
02:57 Antonio’s Journey with the Stroke Foundation
04:31 Antonio’s Initial Stroke Experience
07:35 Adjusting to Life After Stroke
11:20 Family Dynamics and Personal Growth
17:51 Writing and Publishing the Book
28:28 The Stroke Experience and Recovery
37:28 Returning to Australia and Continuing Recovery
43:33 Finding Purpose and Joy in Life After Stroke
47:31 Advice for Other Stroke Survivors
54:00 Back To Driving After A Stroke
1:04:23 Life After Stroke And The Pseudobulbar Affect

Transcript:

Bill Gasiamis 0:00
Hello everybody, and welcome to episode 326 of the recovery after stroke podcast today, I’m honored to bring you the inspiring story of Antonio Ianella, a survivor of a brain hemorrhage that struck while he was traveling in Vietnam. In this episode, Antonio shares the challenges he faced recovering in a foreign country, overcoming language barriers and adapting to his new physical limitations.

Bill Gasiamis 0:29
His story reveals the power of resilience, adaptability and finding purpose in life after stroke, before we jump into Antonio’s journey, I’d like to take a moment to thank everyone who supports the podcast. If these episodes have helped you or a loved one in any way, please consider supporting the show through Patreon at patreon.com/recoveryafterstroke.

Bill Gasiamis 0:55
Your support keeps the podcast going and allows me to continue sharing these valuable stories for stroke survivors and their families, I’d like to make a special shout out to our newest Patreon supporters, JK, Jolene Oh and Cecilia, thank you for joining our community. Your support means so much, and I’m truly grateful to have you with us.

Bill Gasiamis 1:20
Antonio Ianella, welcome back to the podcast.

Antonio Iannella 1:24
Thank you, Bill. How are you mate? Good to see you again.

Bill Gasiamis 1:27
I’m really good, man. Thank you. Is so good to have you back. The first time we met was the 15th of November 2017 sorry, that’s not the first time we met, that’s the first episode that we recorded.

Antonio Iannella 1:40
Yes, we met, maybe before then we met in, I reckon, about 2011 or something like that as well.

Bill Gasiamis 1:48
2013 we met at the Stroke Foundation, where we both decided to be speakers on behalf of the Stroke Foundation to raise awareness against stroke, right?

Antonio Iannella 2:02
Yes.

Bill Gasiamis 2:04
Let’s talk a little bit about that briefly before I give people a bit of a rundown of the previous episode and what you’ve been through, what was behind you deciding to go and be an advocate for Stroke Awareness, for the Stroke Foundation back then.

Antonio Iannella 2:22
Yeah, I am. I met someone who was doing that role, they were a stroke survivor, and they suggested I get involved. So I applied and got the gig pretty straight forward, and she sort of thought I’d be a good candidate, and like you and I have both become our community, representing for our language, well, our heritage.

Bill Gasiamis 2:49
That’s it, yeah, you, Italian, me and Greg.

Antonio Iannella 2:51
Yes, yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 2:57
And what was it like doing that for you, though you were in the thick of it then. So what was it like actually doing something like that? What was the benefit of it I suppose.

Antonio Iannella 3:06
At first it was the challenge and wanting to be involved in raising awareness, and then I just really enjoyed the people and meeting everyone and meeting you and everyone else, and there was this spirit about volunteering, that when we’d get together and have those meetings and discuss what we’re doing, that would just the energy just was so lovely that I really enjoyed it, and then getting to do those presentations to the public was just felt so critical and so needed in society.

Antonio Iannella 3:40
So, I just locked it up and got a lot out of I’d walk away from a presentation exhausted, but just so fulfilled, and so and there’s different types of exhaustion. There’s those that you feel like you’re so fatigued, especially with stroke, that comes from nothing, you can’t work out, why do I feel so tired? And then there’s fatigue from doing too much, but you’re satisfied because you’ve you’ve accomplished something.

Bill Gasiamis 4:08
It’s a completely different version.

Antonio Iannella 4:10
Yeah, absolutely. So that’s the feeling I was getting from the presentations.

Bill Gasiamis 4:15
Yeah, that’s the one that you go after, you go after that kind of fatigue, because there’s a massive payoff, right? Whereas fatigue that just drives you to the bed or to the couch, that’s the kind of fatigue you want to not have and you want to avoid.

Antonio Iannella 4:31
Absolutely, absolutely. I had one of those days yesterday, and it was just I didn’t sleep so well the night before, and it was just a horrible fatigue that, you know that I don’t want to feel like this, but you just plow through it and I’ve got a busy week coming up, and another by the end of next week, I’ll be quite fatigued, but it’ll be a nice feeling. So yeah, absolutely, mate I get it.

Bill Gasiamis 4:54
When we met in on the podcast, November 15, 2017, And by the way, for anyone watching and listening, I advise you guys to go back and get a bit of a sense of where Antonio was at back then, there’ll be links in the show notes, so you’ll be able to find the previous episode that we recorded. Your journey, you discussed your journey basically in 2009 you were 38 overseas on a family trip. You’ve experienced a stroke, you’re in Saigon, right in hospital in Saigon.

Antonio Iannella 5:31
Yes.

Bill Gasiamis 5:32
No language, trying to navigate all of that kind of stuff. And then, as we kind of went through the episode, you spoke about the the mental and emotional struggles are very common, everything, absolutely yes, go through all the time, depression and anxiety and then, like somehow, sort of discovering resilience at the same time. After you guys got back, you you went through a divorce as well, you guys separated.

Antonio Iannella 6:03
We had we it was kind of what I after so many years, I’ve concluded that was the straw. It’s cliche, but the straw that broke the camel’s back, and there was just, there was a history of some trouble there and problems, and it just like it was just beyond repairable by that stage, and the best thing to do was just start again, I guess, and it was also part of that journey of rebuilding a new life.

Bill Gasiamis 6:33
It seemed to be like a line in the sand moment for you.

Antonio Iannella 6:36
Yeah and, you know, yes, line in the sand. We’ll get to that.

Bill Gasiamis 6:40
And if I remember correctly, there was this other weird benefit that you didn’t expect, which was because you had shared custody of your children, sometimes, when the children with their mum and your ex wife, that would give you that recuperation time and rest time to recharge so that you could see them again down the road?

Antonio Iannella 7:01
Yes absolutely, that was critical, and also gave me an opportunity to explore the things I wanted to do without having to think about, you know, get my kids to school or doing those tasks that quite as a parent, I could just solely be about myself, and it was a good healing process that I had to go through.

Bill Gasiamis 7:23
Yeah, and what are your deficits that you’ve had to live with, that you’re kind of overcoming, or that you’ve adjusted to having tell me about the deficits?

Antonio Iannella 7:35
Yeah, adjust. I think adjusting is the right word or healing, because you, for most stroke survivors, you’re left with some kind of deficit, and I think through a process of time, you you’re able to work at how you can manage those and how you can make your life work. For me, you know, I was in a pretty bad way, lost complete function of my body. Had problems speaking and vision, hearing loss, so and once I got back to walking, what was left was mainly weakness on my left side, so I don’t have a great little control of this hand.

Antonio Iannella 8:12
I still have problems with this, I definitely see my speeches come back, which is pretty good, walking and balance, they already, they are an issue, but fatigue is also a massive issue. So yeah, I’m left with those, and it’s really, it’s all about managing and just finding ways to do things, get back to doing things that I enjoy, and finding a way to do that that works in with my, I guess, limitations, and a great word, but I can’t run anymore, and I can’t ride a bike, and there’s so many things in I can’t go hiking and but, you know, I can do other things.

Antonio Iannella 8:52
I do go walk in and I work out, and so, yeah, it’s really about replacing a lot of things that you once did with new things that you can do, and I think, I don’t think you can learn this. I mean, you can’t be taught this during your early days of recovery. It’s something you just physically and emotionally have to go through, and you get to this point eventually where you discover, I’m going to let go of what was there and rather focus in on what I lost.

Antonio Iannella 9:21
You begin to sort of focus on what you still have and develop that into something that works for you, I don’t know, I don’t want to, I don’t want to ever say that, it’s never going to be the same, because some people make really, really good recoveries, but you know, there’s going to be always something left behind, and you just got to apply that to your life and go, and like I said, it’s a very long bridge to cross.

Bill Gasiamis 9:46
You’ve been doing it for 15 years.

Antonio Iannella 9:48
15 years, yep.

Bill Gasiamis 9:50
Is this 15th year kind of the best year yet, I know that you’ve had a lot to overcome, like most drugs vibes, you know, there’s been plenty of water under the bridge. But is this the best year yet? As far as your mental health, your emotional health, your physical health, where are you at with the whole journey?

Bill Gasiamis 10:11
Let’s take a quick break here, but we’ll be right back with more of Antonio’s inspiring journey in a moment. While you’re here, I’d like to remind you about my book ‘The unexpected way that a stroke became the best thing that happened. This book isn’t just a memoir, it’s a practical guide for achieving post traumatic growth after stroke.

Bill Gasiamis 10:32
You’ll find stories from other stroke survivors who, like Antonio, found ways to grow and adapt after their trauma. You can find it on Amazon or at recoveryafterstroke.com/book.

Antonio Iannella 10:46
I do feel this is the best year, because it’s something that gets overshadowed a lot is the emotional recovery, and we don’t spend a lot of time in rehab working on that, if you think about it, when you’re in for me, when I was in rehab, it was physio, hydro, OT, OT Assistant, psych. Only one session is psych a week, psychology and so and you you’re not really prepared for the emotional struggles you have once you’re out of the hospital system.

Antonio Iannella 11:20
So you go through that process of learning and really connecting with other stroke survivors who kind of advise you that this is normal, where your feeling is normal, and then you start to go, okay, so yeah, there’s been a lot of learning, a lot of growing, and finally arriving at that place where I feel like, like your book says about this, it feels like it’s the best thing that’s ever happened to me, but it’s taken a long time to get there, and I’m not going to say that there are days where I wish that I just hate this thing, because there are, you can’t.

Antonio Iannella 11:51
I’m not going to pretend and say it’s all great and running around giving people high fives, because it’s not the way it is. It’s really just there are days I want to give up. Honestly, there are days where I’m just like, I’m human. I want to give up, but I just try and make sure there’s only minimal amount of those days, and they’re more positive days, and I guess that outweighs it, and I’ve been able to get back to doing some of the things I just love to do, and I look at it like, if I didn’t have my stroke.

Antonio Iannella 12:20
I wouldn’t have had that opportunity to do these things, and you know, I call it, there’s Spanish word, it’s two words, jerky or complete though, which means ‘Full Circle. And I feel like I’ve come full circle back to who that person I was before my stroke, well before my stroke. So that put me on that path of what I want to do with my life and pursue the things I’m interested in.

Bill Gasiamis 12:46
Do you feel like you’ve found your essence?

Antonio Iannella 12:50
Yeah, I feel like I’ve found that person I’ve worked to want to be. When you’re younger, like in your 20s and 30s, you just haven’t fully matured to that,I’m in my 50s now. So you get to that point where you just go ‘Hey. You know, you realize what’s so important, and, you know, and I had to let go of all those things that most of us are doing, like pursuing a career.

Antonio Iannella 13:15
Doing really well at work and and then just letting all that go and just reinventing myself and getting back to the things I love, like making music and being creative and enjoying the sunshine and nature and, just simple things that you know bring me joy. And you know, a lot of times, in my previous life, I didn’t, not that I didn’t have those things, but they were just minimal because you’re busy, busy, busy, busy.

Bill Gasiamis 13:44
Stopping to smell the roses, like really, and then you just do it, and it’s easy to get distracted, right? It’s absolutely tons of things to distract. So everyone does that and I think it’s very standard and normal.

Antonio Iannella 13:57
It’s normal, it’s not there’s nothing wrong. It’s life, and I love to sort of be able to do so, especially when you know, I’ll give you a little example. About a week ago, I saw a friend, he posted some video of himself hiking through somewhere Kangaroo flats or somewhere just outside of Melbourne, and it looked it was the sun was shining, and he had a massive smile in his face.

Antonio Iannella 14:24
And I just had that moment, my heart just went ‘Oh, I just love to do that, but, you know, and you know, and I hated where I was at, but then I just let it go and move forward and then focus on those things that make me happy. So, yeah, it’s normal. It’s a normal lifestyle where everyone does there’s nothing wrong with it, just finding time to be able to enjoy those small things is really important.

Antonio Iannella 14:24
Yeah when all this happened to you, the family was young, wasn’t it like?

Antonio Iannella 14:50
Yeah, they’re all young.

Bill Gasiamis 14:59
How young were the kids?

Antonio Iannella 15:02
Three daughters are all under 10. So there was a 10 month old, a five year old and an eight year old. And yeah, we’re in Vietnam at the time.

Bill Gasiamis 15:13
Yeah. So now they’re all sort of approaching the end of high school, and some of them are probably already finished, and there’s a whole different responsibility for you, with regards to the kids, that relationship has shifted. Tell me what it’s life now with the kids.

Antonio Iannella 15:30
Yeah absolutely, it’s it has shifted greatly, because they’re two of them adults and in the workforce and living on their own and moved out at home. So they’re doing really well. My youngest daughter, 16, she lives with me, and so there’s still that level of parenting responsibility, but yeah, it has shifted where there’s not so much onus on me just having to clean up and look after them and care for them, and they’re a lot more responsible for what they do and, yeah, so it’s given me a bit a bit more space a bit more room.

Bill Gasiamis 16:09
And allocate time to yourself more.

Antonio Iannella 16:11
Yeah, well, if I had hadn’t had this time, I wouldn’t have been able to achieve some of the things I’ve achieved.

Bill Gasiamis 16:18
Is it a bit of a relief when they move out? I mean, it was for me, and it’s sad, you know, it was like bittersweet when my boys moved out in the 20s, I was not even 50, and they had moved out and empty nester and all that kind of stuff, but the space that they created was a relief like it was. When you have a relationship with your kids in the house, it’s always the parental relationship.

Bill Gasiamis 16:48
Doesn’t matter how old they are, but when they move out, it shifts. You have a different adult relationship with them, and it’s not about parenting them or making them pick up after themselves, or any of that stuff. Did you find that?

Antonio Iannella 17:02
As you were saying that I was just resonated with me, because that’s what happened with especially with my daughter, Molly, who moved out only a year ago or so, and she and I’m just watching her from a distance, just into that world of, you know, being responsible paint her own bells. She started a little business where she makes film and doing that, and watching her just grow and picking up clients, and it’s just and like you said, it’s more of a it changes.

Antonio Iannella 17:32
The dynamics change because you’re no longer overseeing them as a parent, under your household. They’ve got their own household, and you just witness it from a distance and then provide support, maybe in the in the sense of just some guidance, and it’s a nice it’s a nice connection.

Bill Gasiamis 17:51
You know the kids moving out. Do you think that’s what created the space for you? We’re going to talk about your book right now for you to kind of finally wrap up this project of your book, or tell us a little bit about that journey, about the book. Firstly, before you start telling us anything, do you have a copy of it there? Show us.

Antonio Iannella 18:09
Sure thing.

Bill Gasiamis 18:10
Saigon Siren, memoir of a stroke recovery, Antonio Iannella, fantastic man. I love the cover. I mean, the whole thing is amazing.

Antonio Iannella 18:10
Thank you.

Bill Gasiamis 18:10
But you’ve been on this writing journey for quite a lot of time. I thought it four years for me, took a while. But how long have you been on this writing journey?

Antonio Iannella 18:32
It began, I reckon it began around the time I met you back in 2012 and it just the idea was just bubbling in the back of my head for a while, and and then I got into about 2012 with no idea of what I was doing. Just thought I’d just write, and I wrote, wrote, wrote, and then I had some guidance, had some involvement with other writers through a writing group that was really helpful, because they kind of gave me an idea on how to get a story out and how to tell a story.

Antonio Iannella 19:05
Because, you hear so often, you know that saying that everyone’s got a book in them, it’s true, they probably do, but telling the book or writing the book is just a whole nother thing completely. So that’s what I had to learn, I knew how to story of Vietnam thing and recovery, and then after about a year of 2012, 2013 maybe up to 2014 it kind of stopped, come to a bit of a stop, and I got involved with doing other projects, music and and then it wasn’t till COVID, and that reignited it, I thought, you know, I’m going to get back into writing.

Antonio Iannella 19:42
One of the first things I did, I had about 80,000 words. One of the first things I did was I extracted a chapter bang in the middle, and turn that into a short story, and I sent that into just the local writing competition through the library, and I received the third prize award, and I thought ‘Wow, there’s something in this. And then I started sharing the story with a few friends, and they loved it, and it just gave me that confidence too.

Antonio Iannella 20:10
And I must say, there was one other person who was reading my chapters at that time as I was writing them, and she, although she was quite brutal in terms of the feedback, but it helped my writing so much, because I’d send the chapters in, she just like a school teacher, she just highlights sections and go, I love this bit, but you lose me here. That’s cliche, you can do better.

Antonio Iannella 20:34
I’d be so angry, and I wanted to yell at her, but then I’d just get in there and fix all that and rewrite it, and it just gave me strength, and it gave me confidence, and I just kept writing, and yeah, just little key things I did was like this laptop that I’m talking to you on, I bought that and I dedicated it to writing, and I just, although I couldn’t live plenty room in my home to write. I actually went to the library each day and just sat in a corner and just wrote.

Antonio Iannella 21:07
I’d be going through scenes of my recovery, or when it happened, tears streaming down my face I’m in the library. Just imagine all these things and writing and writing and just getting right into the story, and I did that purposely to just have that feeling of ‘Okay, I’m at the library for four hours and I’m going to write, no distractions. You know, there were times I didn’t even bring my phone, my computer wasn’t connected to the to the internet at that time.

Bill Gasiamis 21:38
Wow, it’s really going into it, I love them, and going into the time to write was really difficult for me as well. Like I started writing in lockdown as well, the whole purpose of it was, we were in Melbourne, so we had the biggest lockdown in the world. So there was a lot of downtime, a lot of time to do nothing or something constructive, and that’s what it was for me, and the hardest thing for me was writing, reliving the whole thing wasn’t so hard for me. I wasn’t that emotional reliving it, but I was emotional telling the story in public when I was launching.

Antonio Iannella 22:16
Yeah, did you? Did you find once you when you told the story, like verbally or wrote it, it kind of helped you heal in a way where, I guess it was cathartic for you.

Bill Gasiamis 22:29
Indeed, man is extremely cathartic. I mean, I didn’t expect that, part of I didn’t think that that was what was going to happen, I wanted to tell a story too. I didn’t know what story to tell, either, and that feedback that you were getting that was difficult to hear that chapter, you know, starts off great ‘Oh, this paragraph is terrible, and I was going through that as well, and that’s interesting. How did you find that was difficult? What was difficult about it? Was it that did you initially have that untrained mind of thinking ‘Oh, they’re attacking me.

Bill Gasiamis 23:05
Or was it they’re they’re hurting my feelings? What was it? Because it’s not, it’s constructive feedback, because you want to, they wanted you to have a good book. But I felt that too, that whole weird people are going to give why are people giving me a hard time about it, like that was strange. What was that all that about do you think it?

Speaker 1 23:25
It was strange, it happened also, when I was in the writing group the first time around with the first draft, they also would point out things, and I was but it’s really hard to be objective when you’re writing your own story. So it’s when you’re in the in the storyline, and you’re writing things, you can visualize it in your head, and you know what you’re trying to say, and sometimes you miss critical components that shrink a sentence or a paragraph together because you can see it.

Antonio Iannella 23:56
It’s someone else who does not know nothing about you, they can’t, so it’s really important to get their feedback, and I think it’s about ego, feeling like you get a bit hurt, because all you really want is to be I write about in the book is, you know, all you want is, like, I remember the first chapter I submitted to the writing group when I was part of that group, and I was so you would submit chapters every week, and people, everyone would read it in the group. And then you get together once a week and you talk about the chapters.

Antonio Iannella 24:26
Each person submitted a chapter. And I was, you know, I have submitted my first chapter, I was so excited, I was gonna, I felt like I was gonna go into that meeting library and everyone’s gonna be ‘Oh, you’re a champion, you know, in all these high flames. And there’s the complete opposite, you know? They just, they just taught me to not tore it to shreds, but just everything.

Bill Gasiamis 24:50
Literally, critically, observing it, right? They were observing it critically from a literary perspective.

Antonio Iannella 24:58
Absolutely, yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 24:59
And you are a legend, I think you’re great, everyone thinks you’re great, but yeah, it’s just weird. This ego, like, it’s like little kid emotions, like, it’s some weird stuff that comes up, but it’s, do you feel better for what? Obviously you feel better for it, but in your mind, you might not write another book, I don’t know, but in your mind, does it make you feel like I know how to write another book now, like I could do that better and easier next time?

Antonio Iannella 25:30
Yes, absolutely I do feel that, but I also have been writing a few stories recently, and I’m finding them a lot more critical of my own writing, and I find something as well. Like the other day, I dug out an old story I wrote about a year ago, and I was going through it again, thinking to just, it was just a short story, and I thought I might spruce it up and and I read it to myself, and I was like ‘Oh my God, this is horrible.

Antonio Iannella 25:58
So it was just, I just had to find a way to make it more me and I think learning to write through your own voice and getting the confidence to let your voice speak is part of the journey, and that’s what you need to, I felt I needed to learn.

Bill Gasiamis 26:20
I love that whole idea of getting somebody else to look at your work and and kind of criticize it, so to speak, because, I mean, you don’t want to go through the whole process self publish, which we can do these days, and then put out a book that nobody can read because it’s all over the place.

Antonio Iannella 26:39
Absolutely.

Bill Gasiamis 26:40
Put out a book that’s boring to read or goes into too much detail in the wrong thing that’s not relevant to stroke recovery.

Antonio Iannella 26:48
Absolutely, yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 26:49
So it’s good that you’ve got that, a learning now, that learning is really what it is. It’s another level of learning about, how you have to structure things to deliver a compelling story.

Antonio Iannella 27:04
Yeah, it is important to have those components, because you got to remember, at the end of the day, whoever’s reading the book, the bottom line is, it’s about them being entertained, and you have to, you have to separate almost how you feel about the story, and just look at it from a one of the things I did was I wrote as if I was speaking to someone like you and I are having this conversation, like I’m telling them the story, and always keep in mind, keeping them in mind that this is what I’m doing.

Antonio Iannella 27:33
I’m pitching this story to one person and just trying to make them feel connected and and entertained as well. So what those, all those factors.

Bill Gasiamis 27:44
It’s about the reader.

Antonio Iannella 27:45
Yeah it’s about the reader, absolutely. So that’s what I was I really focused on. That was making it about and trying to be vulnerability is something that we, all, you know, sort of naturally shy away and disclose and keep to ourselves, but I just felt that had to be key component in the story in order to carry the reader through and make them feel connected to the story.

Bill Gasiamis 28:12
Awesome, my copy hasn’t arrived yet because it’s literally just become available, hasn’t it?

Antonio Iannella 28:17
Yes, just yesterday.

Bill Gasiamis 28:19
Yeah, alright so this is being recorded on Saturday, the 19th of October.

Antonio Iannella 28:28
Yes.

The Stroke Experience and Recovery

Bill Gasiamis 28:28
The interview is going to go out in about six days from now, so anyone who’s listening to it, it’s already gone out, and that means that the book has been out for about a week, and everybody can get a copy online.

Antonio Iannella 28:42
Okay.

Bill Gasiamis 28:43
I’ve received the PDF draft of it, and I’ve skimmed through and had a bit of a look again. I didn’t have time to read the whole thing, but I’ve made some notes that I want to sort of go through and talk about.

Antonio Iannella 28:54
Happy to do that, mate.

Bill Gasiamis 28:56
So, I we’ll go back a little bit. We’ll go back to Vietnam, what’s going through your mind when you’re experiencing these weird symptoms you’ve never ever experienced before that are kind of leading your body to stop working?

Speaker 1 29:13
Yeah, that was quite frightening, but to it, it’s kind of like the first sign I got was the rumbling in the hands, in the ears and the tingle in my palm, that was the first sign, but you know how we often as people, get these little twitches, like you might go in the back in there go ‘What was that? And you kind of, and you don’t question, like ‘Oh, I don’t know. And just carry on, it was kind of like that. That was the first sign, and then as it was, as I was beginning to as the stroke was taking hold and sort of, I guess, swiping watching through me.

Antonio Iannella 29:48
It just felt like I was, I didn’t know my own self. I just was losing control of my whole body, it just become like jelly in minutes. So and, but of it for a lot, not a long time, but for the first few days, I just thought something was just going to be okay, I don’t know, I had this kind of naive sensation that I’ll be right, I’ll be fine, it’s probably just a bug.

Antonio Iannella 30:15
You know, the first thing I thought was I’d been bitten by something because I had the day before, we had been cruising through the the Mekong River, through some of the little villages, and something bit me on the foot, and I just thought it was probably just that a really a reaction to that number, okay, but turned out it wasn’t. So it’s quite, it was really frightening, you just losing control of yourself is just well.

Bill Gasiamis 30:45
And it was an AVM, wasn’t it?

Antonio Iannella 30:46
Yeah, AVM like you have had, which we discovered when we met, that we both had AVMS. And prior to that, people don’t know what an AVM is basically, it’s a weak vein in part of your brain that ruptures and bleeds. Generally, it’s just from a malformation you’re born with it, and apparently, statistically, so heard between the ages of 30 and 40 is when they’re most prone to bleed.

Bill Gasiamis 31:16
Yeah, that’s so many people I’ve interviewed with AVMS in that age bracket, which is so weird that they all kind of have this shitty timer that they’re all set to kind of go off at around that time, like, it’s so strange.

Antonio Iannella 31:32
And there’s no scientific I guess, statistics to show why or explain why this happens at that age and like when, when it happened to me, and that first thing they did were checking out is they check your vitals and check your blood pressure and your blood sugar and your heart rate and all that, and everything was fine. I had no pre previous health condition, and it wasn’t until they discovered after MRI that had this.

Bill Gasiamis 32:05
Was the MRI in Vietnam? Or did you have to get to Melbourne to get that?

Antonio Iannella 32:10
No, the first one, I had many, but the first one was in literally within an hour of getting or not even my memory is quite vague, but when we arrived at the hospital. I think we’re straight into the hospital, and next thing I know, I was in having a navy I don’t even remember the MRI, but I just remember, like, being wheeled through parts of the hospital, and I remember the two orderlies who were pushing my my bed.

Antonio Iannella 32:38
They were speaking in Vietnamese, and I couldn’t work out where I was, I couldn’t understand them, I couldn’t work out it was because I was speaking in Vietnamese, or was it because I couldn’t understand it? That’s all I remember.

Bill Gasiamis 32:57
You’re in a foreign country, we know what Australia’s medical systems like.

Antonio Iannella 33:03
Its world class.

Bill Gasiamis 33:05
It has its limitations, but it’s world class, right?

Antonio Iannella 33:08
Absolutely, it is really, really good.

Bill Gasiamis 33:09
Yeah, and if you live in a city, you’re really confident that you’re going to get amazing health care, but when you’re in Vietnam, that’s not so certain. Was that a concern? Something that was on your mind as well, or how do you manage that whole idea?

Antonio Iannella 33:26
I can’t say it was on the forefront of my mind, there wasn’t much in my mind, apart from a panic, fear and distress and just what I was, I kind of felt like I was just holding on, holding on to life, so just some wasn’t slipping away. There was, there were a few things like they couldn’t the nurse couldn’t get the this is one of the first days in ICU. The nurse couldn’t get the intravenous line into my vein, and I remember they were just trying to get it in, they just couldn’t get in, they ended up putting it in my neck.

Antonio Iannella 34:01
So there were things like that and, and if I’d asked for something, well, I could just speak, but if I’d asked for this, they’d bring me something else, or if I’d asked for a drink, they would fix my bed sheets or, you know, so there was a bit of that going on, but what they may be lacked in medical practices, they made up in care. They really cared for me, they were kind and sweet, and even the doctors, all the doctors were French, because during the French invaded Vietnam hundreds of years ago, so they have a big hold on France.

Antonio Iannella 34:42
It’s a lot of Bill on Vietnam. There’s a lot of buildings that were built during that era of their reigning in Vietnam. So there’s a there’s a heavy French influence. So the hospital was called the Franco Vasco Hospital, which is a French name, and the doctors wore French, in the ICU ward. So they, not only that, we had Vietnamese nurses and staff, but French doctors who didn’t speak English.

Antonio Iannella 35:16
So there was just another layer on top of that, and they just barely could, they few words here and there, but they really looked after us. Under those circumstances, we’re in a foreign country, three young children, their mother myself and they looked after us, they did.

Bill Gasiamis 35:36
How far into your trip were you when it happened, and how long did it take you to get home?

Antonio Iannella 35:42
Well, the day before the ninth day we’re coming home on the 10th day happened the last the day before departure, and it was on our last trip, which was to visit the underground war tunnels that were built during you know more. So yeah, we got to have the whole holiday, and did everything, and went on some amazing cruises and villages in the Mekong and, yeah, some beautiful little towns. So we had an amazing time, which kind of was wiped out after having a stroke. So that all just slips away, and you forget about it’s not two months later, you start to ‘Oh yeah, we’re in Vietnam.

Antonio Iannella 36:22
Remember that Bucha? Wow, that was amazing. So it was a bit like that, you know, but, yeah, so it was literally at the end of the trip, and there was no sign at all that I was, you know, not no headaches. Oh yeah, there was a headache. I wrote about that in the book a few days prior, I had this headache, or the day before the stroke, I had a headache, and I thought maybe that was it, but you know, as you learn AVMs, they don’t leave much of a trail.

Bill Gasiamis 36:53
I had one massive headache about it was November 2010 it was about a week long, ridiculous headache, I went to hospital, they did a lumbar puncture, they checked everything, they were looking for a bleed in the brain, and they couldn’t find it because they weren’t expecting an AVM. They weren’t looking for an AVM, and even when they scanned my head, they missed the AVM that was there and then.

Antonio Iannella 37:25
Hadn’t bled it yet.

Bill Gasiamis 37:28
I reckon it was just playing up and just causing a little bit of irritation to the neurons and to the brain around there, it was terrible headache. Anyway, I went and we went home after, like, being in hospital for a day or so, for a day, and they checked it out, and then I was out cold on the bed for and on the couch for the next three or four days, and then started to finally, kind of settle down, and it took about more than seven seven or eight days to settle down, and that was the first sign for me, I think.

Bill Gasiamis 38:04
That was November 2010 and then the bleed happened in February 2012 It was about 16 months later that it happened.

Antonio Iannella 38:19
Although it might, it may be impossible, but did they connected to that? Were they able to say that could have been or I just don’t know, I asked and they didn’t connect it. Yeah, that they can’t, it’s too hard to work these things out.

Bill Gasiamis 38:31
Yeah, which makes sense.

Antonio Iannella 38:36
Did they say the bleed happened at the time you went to hospital, like the day before, or did they say the bleed that’s been there for, you know, like that little bleed has been there for a while.

Bill Gasiamis 38:46
When they found the bleed in Feb 2012 it was happening for seven days, because I didn’t go to hospital for seven days, like I knew that it was, you know, the thing you mentioned, you felt weird somewhere. I was feeling weird in my my big left toe, okay, and that was it just my little toe, my big toe, and then it spread to the left the rest of my foot, and thenafter, seven days it had slowly spread all the way up to my entire left side.

Bill Gasiamis 39:19
But I knew it was when they said you’ve had a bleed. Well, then I realized it started seven days earlier, but that was the first sign for me, other than that massive headache, how did they resolve your bleed, your AVM? What did they do to rectify that?

Antonio Iannella 39:37
Nothing, it just healed on its own, I did. They did look into treatment, but they first, the first thing was they couldn’t work out was an AVM for probably about a month because it was bleed, I had mine in my brain stem. Brain stems only about this wide, so and it wasn’t a massive bleed, but because it was a the brainstem and cause a lot of damage, but they needed, basically, I had two, I think it was a third MRI.

Antonio Iannella 40:10
They still weren’t able to work out why I had the hemorrhage the AVM. And it was an angiogram that was, they worked that out, but they basically said, because of the brain to them, I did go and see surgeons, they’re on few to surgeons and had some radiation treatment done, but it didn’t go well. So it was just, he just healed itself and it’s still there.

Bill Gasiamis 40:37
Okay, alright.

Antonio Iannella 40:38
And I remember we were talking about this, because you did end up having to treat yours.

Bill Gasiamis 40:43
Yeah, I had brain surgery. They took it out, and that’s the reason I have deficits today, is because of the brain surgery. So that, up until I went into the brain surgery, I would have said that my deficits were all kind of superficial, because the blood was in there and it was messing things up, right? But as the blood started to subside and go away, between bullied two and bleed three, which were quite a long, a long way away from each other, the all my neurological deficits went away because the blood started to subside the third one.

Bill Gasiamis 41:21
The neurological deficits came back, and then the surgery, because the AVM was deep in my brain, kind of to the center near the cerebellum. The to get there, I imagine they’re gonna move a lot of stuff around and touch stuff and whatever. So hard to imagine that, plus cutting, actually dissecting and removing the blood vessel, you know, there’s no doubt that they’re going to have to cause a little bit of damage somewhere.

Antonio Iannella 41:53
Because they said that, they said this may cause some damage.

Bill Gasiamis 41:58
They did say that, they also said the whole you might not wake up from this, and the whole lot, right? And then when I did, and then couldn’t walk, and at all, my left side was completely gone, my arm and my leg and and all that, they were just matter of fact, I can’t get him into rehab, that was it, that’s what they said. So I did as much rehab as I needed to be able to get to the toilet independently, and maybe make a cup of tea and have breakfast, because my wife was at work and my boys were at school.

Bill Gasiamis 42:35
So the one I’m what they were keen on was when I was at home, that I was going to be able to get around the house without being a risk of falling. Which almost worked, I fell a few times, but most of the time get it okay, I was okay. So, they removed it, and they’re the deficits I live with today, and it’s on my left side, it’s still numb. I can walk, and I can use my arm some.

Bill Gasiamis 43:03
Sometimes I get, like, spasticity in the muscles, you can’t see it in my hand, I don’t have like, visual signs of spasticity, but I have tone, like ‘Okay, yeah, and it really hurts. And then sometimes that throws out the rest of my body, It’s a big mess, you know, and then massages, and then there’s a rehabilitation process to get me feeling well, not balanced, because I’ve never felt balanced since, but somewhere on the verge of it

Antonio Iannella 43:31
So close to it, yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 43:33
Yeah, and then, like, if I have bad days, then I sleep rough one night, then the next night, the next day, is a bit of a challenge, and it’s definitely harder to get through, but these patterns I’ve recognized so like you, I know how to navigate them, and they impact me less, they make it, it’s not as hard as it used to be.

Antonio Iannella 43:55
Yeah, that’s what happens. It’s kind of it’s it’s forever unfolding, I find as well, because I find it really difficult to separate fatigue, or am I just feeling tired because I didn’t sleep well? Or is that the stroke? Is that headache related to this? Or is it now I just, I just ride all those feelings, and at the beginning I’d panic ‘What was that? And, you know, there’s, there were times I’d be rushed in the hospital, and it just turned out I was having a panic attack.

Antonio Iannella 44:27
And so as the years go on, you start to recognize and realize ‘Okay, to that, and it’s just that, it’s probably this, so I’m okay, but just the other thing I was going to say, you can’t separate the mind and the body and the spirit, and it’s like you didn’t sleep well, and affects you, and you see your hand cramps up, and then it affects other parts of your body, that happens to me too, like, it’s just whole experience.

Bill Gasiamis 44:54
It is the whole system. You were a musician too, right? And you still are, I know, but initially you’ve had the stroke, you’ve come back, there’s time in rehabilitation. You come back to some kind of home life, and you’re not able to participate the way that you did before, in your band and in music, and your identity is impacted massively. What’s it? What was that like?

Antonio Iannella 45:24
It was heartbreaking at the beginning, really heartbreaking because I’ve been a guitar player for on time since I was a teenager, and that really hurt. It still does sometimes, but I managed to find ways to make music one handed on the piano, and it was really because I wanted to compose, and so I transferred what I knew about music onto the piano one handed, and was able to make music, and then once I discovered that process, it was just like someone opened the flood gates with ideas.

Antonio Iannella 45:59
Because it just really, just went, wham, I produced so much music that I never thought I’d be able to do that in, you know, in my late 30s. So, yeah, it was just matter of finding a new way, and that’s just for me, it was that, but I think for most stroke survivors, it’s just finding a new approach. We saw we first, one of the first things we spoke about was adjusting, a lot of the recovery is about adjusting, finding new ways, not necessarily getting back to how you did it before, but now going.

Antonio Iannella 46:35
Okay, I’ve got these skills, and I can, like for me, I can make music, and I’ve written lots of music and played in bands as a guitar player, and used to gig and do all that stuff. I can’t do that anymore, bro, I could, I still know music, I can still hear music, I can still compose. So I just started turning all that into and finding new ways to sit at a piano and make up melodies, and then built a studio and got into music production. So, yeah, I just found a new way to make music, and now just keep doing it.

Bill Gasiamis 47:09
Yours are transferable, right?

Antonio Iannella 47:11
Exactly, yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 47:12
Properly transferable.

Antonio Iannella 47:13
Yeah, and that just music is just that example for me, but it could be something else for you. You know, maybe you love to knit, and all of a sudden you can’t do anymore, but you could, somehow invent a system where you do it with one hand and, yeah, so it’s really about thinking outside the box.

Bill Gasiamis 47:31
Yeah, you know, in those really difficult times, what was it for you that helps you kind of keep pushing on and pushing through, I know there was those days where, you know it’s like you wanted to give up. You mentioned it earlier, but you didn’t what was behind not giving up, other than just clinging to life and wanting to be alive and all the usual stuff. Was there something more deeper that helped you kind of keep going?

Antonio Iannella 47:58
Yeah, I think it’s part of my spirit to be a person who does that. Is just to keep trying and having resilience and discipline. It’s part of who I am. But also, I’ve had young children and seeing them, having to go through that, having to see that, I would often think about, I remember in when I was in ICU, I would think about how they wouldn’t be feeling, you knownot only me, because they’re just, I can remember them, just beside my bed, and their little heads would pop up.

Antonio Iannella 48:32
And their mother had to lift them over the rail to give me a little kiss ahead, or whatever. So those that was, just holding on to that, and I need to be there for him. So that was one of the keys, and another thing that really, I guess, kind of gave me, I guess, motivation and inspiration was people just the way that they showed how they cared and stepped up and did things for us. Little, little might be little things.

Antonio Iannella 49:03
But one of the examples was the head doctor in ICU, his wife, French wife, took my daughters out with her for a day, and her own daughter just for a day out swimming. So just little things like that. And, you know, come as in ICU, and I’m being told this stuff, and I was, I could still remember feeling completely humbled by that. So those gesture, those kind of things kept me going.

Bill Gasiamis 49:33
Yeah, you if somebody met you today, they would definitely know that you’ve had some kind of an injury somewhere, right? But they wouldn’t know that it’s been a 15 year journey, and they might kind of gloss over, especially if they’re not stroke survivors. They might gloss over some of the hard times, and in amongst there, there was small victories, right? Tell me about the the small victories. What were they for you? Which ones, the were, the ones that were significant? That were small, perhaps in in somebody else’s mind, but were a big deal to you.

Antonio Iannella 50:09
One of the most, the high there was, there was a lot of little milestones, I speak about them in the book, and that I’d seen that big, but for me, though massive wear because I couldn’t sit up. For example, if I was in I was at the beginning through my recovery, I didn’t have much control over my body, and I didn’t have enough core strength to help me to sit up, so my body would just crumble and roll to the side, and then once I was able to sit up, and I started getting a little bit of function, I got function back to my right hand, and they were like, once I did that.

Antonio Iannella 50:45
I kind of, it was like, it was such a revelation, because I’m like ‘Oh, I can do this. They were the first tiny little glimpses of hope, because suddenly I went from only being able to lay flat in my bed to being able to sit in the arm chair by the window, and it’s not a big deal, but to me, it was like ‘Wow, look what I’ve done. I was so proud of myself. And then it was just, just continued on and went from that, and then I was able to get out of bed, from the bed to the wheelchair, and you have to be airlifted out of the bed anymore.

Antonio Iannella 51:24
So there was those things, but the one of the biggest things was the first time I walked, and it’s I write up quite a lot better in the book, because it was on my birthday. In fact, on my 39th birthday, and I was just in the ballet, in those gymnasium rails, and we’d been doing physio, and I don’t know if my physio, she was marvelous. She was she was so great at her work, and she just gave me that opening to let go and walk, and I let go of the rail, and I walked for about 10 steps, and I did it.

Antonio Iannella 51:55
So it was one of those moments like I couldn’t believe and I grabbed hold of rail, I turned around and she was smiling. So yeah, that those things like that, and that those two, but that’s quite a big milestone, and when I tell others that story, it’s quite anyone can connect today. Another one was getting back to driving, that was such a mission, and I was, and I was able to do within about 10 months, and it was just because I was just so determined, and I remember my physio like, I’d be like ‘Alright, I want to drive. Like she’s gone.

Antonio Iannella 52:30
‘No, no, no, and you can’t drive too early. Go, okay, no, I want to drive. Christmas isn’t coming up. I want to drive. She’s going, but maybe next year, you’re not ready, like she got and plus, it takes about two months to get, there’s a two month waiting list to go on the driving program, and I’m like ‘Put my name down, put my name down, If I fail, then I know I’m not ready. And so she put my name down, and somehow I got to the top of the list.

Antonio Iannella 53:00
As they say, it’s not what you know to, got to the top of the list, and I had to go my license, had a crack at it, had a couple lessons, failed, then went again, and I got it. Just like a week before Christmas, I got it. That was my dream, I wanted to get it for Christmas, and I saw ‘Wow. And it was just such a, such a great moment, you know, especially when I just did the driving test and get back to the hospital, and I turned around and the driving instructor, and the person does, the examiner, just seated it back.

Antonio Iannella 53:30
She didn’t say anything. I just turned around and, look, don’t you just smile at night, and I just didn’t have to say your past. I just knew, so such a great moment. I felt like I was, you know, when you get, remember, when you got your license for the first time? I felt like that, but I had my car already bought myself a little car, so I didn’t have a car at the time, and driving.

Bill Gasiamis 53:52
You’ve had that. Just got my license moment twice dinner.

Antonio Iannella 1 53:55
Yeah I had it because it’s a rebirth, isn’t it?

Bill Gasiamis 54:00
Yeah. It’s ridiculous. how important that is, and makes complete sense. Were you? Did you lose your license when you were examined in Melbourne and went through all the stuff? Did they take it from you? Or was it just that you can’t drive?

Antonio Iannella 54:16
It was not suspended. But when you have a medical episode that’s related to the brain, like a neurological disorder, you have to either be tested or you’re suspended until Doctor report stuff like that, because there was quite a few hurdles. I had to get a doctor to report medical report, vision report, driving test. So it was quite, quite a process to go through.

Bill Gasiamis 54:39
I don’t know what happened with me, but they missed all of that stuff with me, I didn’t ever have mine suspended or lost or anything, and I remember not being being kind of under doctor’s orders not to drive, but I drove anyway. It wasn’t official, and I never got the ‘You can now drive conversation. It was just like, I suppose I can drive now. Like, yeah, I don’t know what the deal is. So I just did, and it was really hard, it was so fatiguing and it was so challenging. What was it like for you, even though you drove? What was it like neurologically?

Antonio Iannella 55:19
Yeah, everything you just said absolutely, because by it, what a lot of people don’t understand about people with stroke who have had strokes, stroke survivors, is that the cognitive function to process information is just so exhausting. So when you’re put in a position where you’re driving a vehicle and you’ve got a lot to think about, it’s not like you know the subconscious mind normally, when you drive, the sub subconscious mind takes over, you notice that, once upon a time, used to drive somewhere and you don’t remember getting there.

Antonio Iannella 55:49
You just all you remember is you’ve gotten there, you don’t remember you went through anything. Did I go through those? You can’t remember when I found for the first few years, the conscious mind was driving, I was thinking, always thinking about it, the conscious about the traffic, about and it’s so exhausting. Because when, when that part of the brain is working over time, all the time, it’s really draining. So yeah, I found it quite and now I still find it, you know, anything over a few hours is a bit difficult for me.

Antonio Iannella 56:22
My time driving, yeah, I struggle with, I try and avoid it, but it’s, it’s not too bad, mainly because I’ve got vision. My vision isn’t the best due to my stroke. So that’s having a lot of problems with this eye and the reflective light. So for about five years, I could do a medical and vision report every year after my license, and then five years later, I get a letter to sayyou don’t, you need to do any more medical reports.

Bill Gasiamis 56:53
They’re probably tracking the condition, whether it was stable or yes, changing something like that. You know, when you left Vietnam and came back, what was that trip like? Actually, were you with your family? Was that a medical evacuation? How did you get home?

Antonio Iannella 57:10
It was a rescue flight. It was a coordinated rescue flight that my daughter’s mother arranged without my knowledge, with a service that provides those kind of things, she was able to source that information through the hospital, and then it was a massive fee to get us, to get us home, no insurance, COVID, and it was a first what happened was they appointed a doctor who for the few days leading up to the flood, or a week, and they just monitored me and check if I was healthy enough for the flight, and at that stage, I contracted pneumonia.

Antonio Iannella 57:49
So I was not only dealing with stroke, also had pneumonia, and they were just a bit nervous about the whole the pneumonia, and the thing I don’t know why, but their process was, once the flight is booked and the service is scheduled, there’s no turning back. You can’t you basically, if you cancel the the the arrangement you don’t use your money.

Antonio Iannella 58:15
Get billed for it anyway. So we had to go, and so I was flown back with a doctor sitting beside me and a nurse, and the nurse, the doctor, literally slept through the whole flight, and the nurse just looked after me, he was a champion, he’d cool my body temperature when I was born, because my body temperature would escalate and then drop, and then I’d be freezing cold and again, you’ve got no complete control of it, and this person’s is basically your life saver.

Antonio Iannella 58:45
It’s like they’re looking after you, make sure you don’t die, that was his job. So, yeah, I don’t know if I’ve told you this, they had to get me off the airplane, they had to wait for all the passengers to get off board, and then they the airport had, Melbourne Airport had to get a cherry picker, kind of like a cherry picker, to escalate me down from the from the airplane or to the tarmac, and then there was an ambulance there waiting for me and into the back of the ambulance and straight over to the hospital, big process.

Bill Gasiamis 59:19
They’ve got that system in place for all medical emergencies. I imagine when people pass away on an airplane as well.

Antonio Iannella 59:26
Yeah, yes. So that’s what it was.

Bill Gasiamis 59:32
So the kids were on the flight, your wife was on the fly at the time, everybody was on the flight together.

Antonio Iannella 59:37
Yes, they were on the flight, but they were sitting at the back, I was in business class, and I see it up back, and they just, but they had like, they would come up and visit and drop, coming up and say hello, give me kiss and stuff, and then once we got to Melbourne Airport, they went through departure, returns and all that as per normal, and then I met them at the hospital.

Bill Gasiamis 1:00:02
It’s pretty shit way to get into business class.

Antonio Iannella 1:00:04
Yeah no, that was my first business class experience, and yeah, didn’t get to sip champagne or anything like that, I was just clicking on to life.

Bill Gasiamis 1:00:19
So then from there, from the airport straight to hospital.

Antonio Iannella 1:00:22
Yep, by that stage, I was starting to like, my awareness was beginning to realign itself, I was beginning to understand things. my speech was slowly starting to come back, but I had no control of my body like I did have some function to my right hand, I hadn’t tried to stand up or anything like that, but yeah, so I could, I’ve become aware of what was happening.

Antonio Iannella 1:00:48
So things become quite vivid by that stage where I knew, like, I can remember that, been in the ambulance, that the doctor talking to the paramedics. I can remember, being in the waiting room, or not in the waiting room, but in one of the rooms at the hospital, the first few doctors I saw. So I remember all those bits.

Bill Gasiamis 1:01:09
My books about post traumatic growth, basically, right? That the topic, the the heading, doesn’t suggest that specifically, but that’s exactly what it’s about post traumatic growth, which is the idea that we can find meaning and growth from trauma, right? I know the stroke changed you in many ways, right? Can you reflect a little bit on how it’s changed you, emotionally and spiritually for the better?

Antonio Iannella 1:01:42
Yeah, spiritually, I feel like I’m a little bit more at peace with who I am, and I think that’s come with having the break released in terms of trying to keep up with society stepping outside, and I use this reference where I was no longer on this speeding train, I’m on the platform and watching everyone just flash by. And at the beginning, that was horrifying, but then I began to appreciate it that I could I had time. Time so valuable, everyone’s so busy and no one has time. Everyone says ‘I’m sorry.

Antonio Iannella 1:02:22
I’m so busy I didn’t have the time to do that, and I didn’t have the time to do this, and next thing, you know, five years have passed and you’ve not done anything because you didn’t have the time. So I began to see that as a bit of a reward. The analogy I use is it was like the golden ticket behind the adversity, the silver lining, and that’s where it changed me spiritually. I began to enjoy that free space, that free, conscious space where I could just think and create and write and make music.

Antonio Iannella 1:03:03
Line the sun and spend, you know, two hours of my morning sitting on outside and the grass and just things like that. I began to see that so much value in that. So that’s where that changed for me, that spiritual, emotional level, but I also found it as well. I’ve always been a quite emotional person, but I also have found that sometimes my emotions can get away from me, like I see things that are painful, especially when others are going through difficult times, and then I find that hard to process.

Antonio Iannella 1:03:37
Because, you know, I think it reflects on having been through that hardship that resonates so that empathy, empathy. I try these techniques on ‘Okay, don’t cry, don’t cry, don’t and I try and squeeze it up and suck it in and then, like I had this friend, and she’s the sono. I told her about it, she’d say ‘Just cry if you want to cry, don’t why hold it back for and I guess you know society, many boys don’t cry, and we have that. So yeah, that that’s changed me a lot. Yeah, so the emotional stance and spiritual sense, and obviously, also the physical sense.

Bill Gasiamis 1:04:23
You’ve earned, the ability to cry at a drop of a hat for no reason if you feel like it, I am, I do, and I get teased like my wife tears me, and it’s all part of the whole thing, right? Oh, are you crying because your team won a game or lost a game, or what the hell like. You know, she’s like and and it’s what it is, I think for me, a lot of the time, it’s like joy expressed outwardly in every way, right? It’s like, it’s not sadness. When I cry, everyone asks me. Presenting my book in the book launch, I wasn’t crying. I was trying to present it to 40 people, right?

Bill Gasiamis 1:05:09
I was trying to have this 20 minute speech and talk about my book and all that kind of stuff. I wasn’t crying out of any anything other than like, pure, unadulterated joy.

Antonio Iannella 1:05:18
Yeah, elated.

Bill Gasiamis 1:05:20
Yeah, and there was so much of it that I cried four times during the during the presentation in 20 minutes, that’s like ‘Oh my god. It gets in the way, it’s getting in the way, but it’s also part of it. Like, you can’t, I can’t. I couldn’t have done that without the crying experience, it’s just gonna have to what do you do?

Antonio Iannella 1:05:43
I bet you is self critical more than anyone else judged you by that everyone else.

Bill Gasiamis 1:05:49
Correct, and I’ve stopped being anyhow, right, like I’m no longer self critical about it, but I am still all right, you get over it now, because you got to finish your presentation like it’s business. You know, move on. So there’s a bit of that, it sounds like you’ll had a completely new perspective on life, right? Things are you see things totally different from Antonio at 38.

Antonio Iannella 1:06:15
Yeah, I do. What I have really enjoyed is the pre-Antonio, the person, not so much the years leading up to the stroke, but maybe when I was in my 20s, and I was working in as a musician, and living that, having that perspective of, you know, just everything was about creativity and and and just in the moment of enjoying the craft. And it’s a kind of a form of yoga, it’s kind of like meditation, because you It’s what it’s those moments where you just completely filled in the moment.

Antonio Iannella 1:06:51
And it’s like when sportsmen, you know, you some of the great sportsmen, you watch them play in the you know, they’re just in the moment, they’re not thinking about something else, and that’s sometimes when they get into that flow state, that’s when they can play that their greatest and that’s the same with music. It’s just all creativity and having gone through a stroke and enabling me to get back to that, that’s been a massive growth period for me.

Antonio Iannella 1:07:18
So I feel like I’m back on track to who I was, for a little while, I went off track, and now I’m back, and that’s why they’re still saying that full circle, that’s what I mean by that.

Bill Gasiamis 1:07:30
In the previous interview that we did, I never used to ask these questions, but now I ask probably, in the last six months or so, I’ve started asking these three questions from everybody who I interview, who’s a stroke survivor. So I’d love to know what was the hardest thing about stroke for you.

Antonio Iannella 1:07:50
The there was a few episodes. I think one of the most scariest was the radiation treatment. The whole process of having my brain fried by radiation was quite frightening, that it made me feel quite alone. Because you you’re going through this experience, or while I was going through it on my own, and you rely on doctors and to advise you, and they don’t, do you know? And there was always that cloud of we don’t know, they couldn’t just give you a straight answer.

Antonio Iannella 1:08:21
This is what’s going to happen. To say you’re going to say you’re going to feel so there was that that was quite scary moments, difficult moments, if you asked there was that. There was the that time in ICU, not knowing whether I was going to survive, and then learn, as you go through those early stages, and learning about stroke, and you’re hearing, you’re reading some stuff about statistics and how many people survive and how many don’t, and that’s frightening.

Antonio Iannella 1:08:47
And then there’s and then, yeah, those few episodes are having an angiogram. Have you had an angiogram? That was really horrible.

Bill Gasiamis 1:08:59
That came out really emotional out of my one, really emotional.

Antonio Iannella 1:09:05
I ended up having three, and I really didn’t enjoy them. But sometimes you know what you’re in for, like, you know, especially after my first one, and then I had a second, a third, I knew what I was in for, but I kind of went in with that mindset of for it, right? Just bite down and just get through it.

Antonio Iannella 1:09:25
You’ll get out the other side, and you just go in there, like, holding on for dear life, and all right ‘This hurts like hell, and, oh yeah, I’m gonna vomit. And then you’re okay, and now later you’re okay, you’re coming too. So that’s kind of how I dealt with those experiences.

Bill Gasiamis 1:09:42
Now I remember the angiogram going and getting prepared for it. So they were preparing me for an angiogram for about five days. So what would happen is morning of day one, no eating, etc, from the night before you’re going in for an angiogram. Okay, cool. So I’m waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting. So one emergency after the other, after the other meant that I get kept putting, kept getting pushed back, and I didn’t have the angiogram. So I’d go from the night before dinner, the night before to any time that the next day, you know, almost 24 hours with no food.

Bill Gasiamis 1:10:22
And I’d be starving and thirsty, and I’d be losing my mind, and they’d be going to me now, you’ll be going in soon, you’ll be going in soon, and then I’d be going what we missed the window. You’re not going in today, go and get something. And then I’d be gorging, and then the next day, and then the next day, they did it for about three days or four days in a row, and then eventually I had the angiogram, and they come in, they tell you, it’s going to go in through one of your main veins.

Antonio Iannella 1:10:51
Aorta, goes in through your aorta from your groin, through the main the aorta is the main vein that feeds blood to your heart and your brain.

Bill Gasiamis 1:11:03
And then it’s like ‘Okay. And then they squeeze the dye, or whatever it’s called, the contrast.

Antonio Iannella 1:11:13
Oh my God, that’s horrible, did you feel dizzy?

Bill Gasiamis 1:11:15
Yeah I felt dizzy. I saw actually, like, sparkles, like, fireworks going off in my head, like it was intense.

Antonio Iannella 1:11:24
Yeah I remember that feeling.

Bill Gasiamis 1:11:25
I could actually see it in my eyes, I could see it in my eyes that fireworks were in my eyes. In the room while my eyes were open, there was just my whole vision field got overtaken by sparkles or fireworks.

Antonio Iannella 1:11:39
You just, it’s like you just lose complete sense of self. I remember that just feeling like you’re in this dark hole and you don’t know what’s going on, and you spit in, yes, really quite a horrible feeling.

Bill Gasiamis 1:11:52
And then the nurse later in recovery, holding your artery for what felt like an eternity, because they once they take it out, they gotta hold it and close it up, make sure that it seals, right? Yeah, so that you don’t bleed out. Because they tell you ‘Sorry, we’ve gotta do this now for the next x time. I don’t, I can’t remember what it was like a long time, and the story going, if we don’t do it, you could bleed out and die. And I’m like ‘Okay, I didn’t say, don’t do it, go for it, you guys do whatever you have to do.

Antonio Iannella 1:12:32
Well, that’s a quite a big build up three days to the mine was only one night, only one day, 90 for a day and then, that’s quite 12 hours or something I had to fast for.

Bill Gasiamis 1:12:45
So they got me, I’m all wound up over it every day. But anyhow, what’s something that stroke has taught you?

Antonio Iannella 1:12:56
I think I’m still learning, and that is to kill the effing out, because, like, they were talking about this briefly, about publishing a book, the amount of work involved, and all the boxes you got to tick and make sure you got this right. And they got so stressful, and I’ve got it, it’s done now, and it’s published and I kind of woke up today, and I was talking to a friend who lives overseas, and she’s going through some hard times, and I just went that stress was just, why do why do I do that for? Why do I stress myself like that for.

Antonio Iannella 1:13:34
Because, you know, you’re going to get to the other side. So I think I’m still learning that, but that’s a massive learning curve in in generally, in life, is just the children chill out and, you know, try not to let those things that you know, because I think it’s been a psychologist have said something like 92% of our fears and thoughts and worries don’t even come true surface. So, you know, that’s what I found.

Bill Gasiamis 1:14:03
I’ve been learning, that’s a good one. What do you want to tell other people who are listening all stroke survivors listen to this podcast, like, what do you want to tell them about your journey, about your experience, about anything that you just feel is going to be valuable.

Antonio Iannella 1:14:24
I think what I would say is, you know, through my own experience, and everything I talk about is through my own experience, and for everyone, it’s different, but through my own experience, what has helped immensely is finding some kind of purpose, and another thing that helped was because all the recoveries built up around trying to get back to who you were trying to recover, recover, recover. And I really think that I until I let go, that I really. Start living so that’s really but I’m not saying that you should not try and get back to who you were in terms of with your recovery.

Antonio Iannella 1:15:09
Statistically, something 88% of people who have strokes lived with lifelong disabilities. So there’s that 12% whoever, whatever happens to them that I don’t know, but the 88% we are solely focusing on trying to get them back to who they were. So that’s an awful amount of people who are not achieving that. So I think maybe just trying to find something for yourself that brings you joy and wakes you up in the morning, and it enables you to not feel like you’re a victim.

Bill Gasiamis 1:15:43
Yeah, that’s cool. And purpose is not head-based, right? It’s not, you’re not going to work out what your purpose is in your head. It’s something that you gotta do. It’s about what you love to do, or what connects you to other people, etc. For you, your purpose, what is it?

Antonio Iannella 1:15:58
It was really just creativity, spreading, spreading joy. I think, through my own story and my own creative advantage, because a lot of the things I create, music, writing, it’s all related to, I guess, making people feel like I’ve been able to do it, and I have a disability and I have limitations, but I’m have still been able to do it. So the general message, that’s takeaway from that is, there are you can still do things. It’s just a hard stock to try and work out what that is and how to do it, but it’s possible.

Bill Gasiamis 1:16:37
And then purpose kind of gives you meaning, right? Meaning in life.

Antonio Iannella 1:16:40
Yeah, and it doesn’t have to be like, all of a sudden you’re going to go on Mount Everest. It could be such the smallest little thing you might like scrapbooking, or you might like, you may have been a complete football nut, and now you can collect statistics and create some kind of information. I know you just, you need to really just find something to do, and because, you know, everyone needs purpose, it’s the thing that drives us as humans and beings.

Antonio Iannella 1:17:08
Why do we go to work? Because ultimately, we have a purpose, and that is to bring money home and able to maintain lifestyle and pay our bills and raise our family. But that’s the purpose, if you remove the purpose problem done, we would go to work. What would be the purpose? So we need to remove that, I feel, remove that, and just do it solely because it’s something that brings you pleasure, joy.

Bill Gasiamis 1:17:34
Yeah, beautiful. Show me the book again, and while you’re doing that, where can people get a copy.

Antonio Iannella 1:17:42
This is the book. It’s the easiest way to find it is on Amazon. If you go straight to Amazon and just typed in Saigon Siren, it would just bring the book straight up. That’s the easiest way to find it, but yeah, there I have also built a website, so that’s another way you get and through the website, you’ll be able to listen to music and see some photographs and video of the trip in Vietnam and some of the journey, the writing and stuff like that.

Antonio Iannella 1:18:15
There’s a couple of sample chapters on my website, so if you know, want to sort of get a feel about what the book is, how it’s written, the voice, the tone, you’ll get that through those chapters. They’re the best ways to connect with it.

Bill Gasiamis 1:18:30
Awesome and what is the website?

Antonio Iannella 1:18:35
It’s just my name, so it’s antonioiannela.com.au, yeah, like said, If you Google just recently, the website’s only gone up about a month ago, and I’ve been learning about SEOs and all that, and I discovered if you type in Saigon siren in Google, it’ll bring up my website in that search, it’s like in the listing. So therefore you’ll be able to and I spent a lot of time with a good mate of mine building a website.

Antonio Iannella 1:19:06
It’s very immersive, there’s a lot of pages, you’ll see my recording studio, lots of the music that I’ve created over the years past, pre stroke, post stroke, been quite a few projects. Some of the the writing and it’s been a lot of fun putting it all together, a lot of stress, a lot of hard work, and my me and my best mate, Rick, we’re going to kill each other on one point, but we got through that. Let’s come together.

Bill Gasiamis 1:19:31
That’s awesome, man. The links will be in the show notes anyway, for people who can’t remember that or have access to recoveryafterstroke.com/episodes, that’s where you’ll find Antonio’s episode, and then from there, they can reach out to you directly, and they can have a conversation if they need to mate. It is my absolute pleasure to have you back on the podcast to be helping you launch the board is something that is a great honor for me.

Bill Gasiamis 1:20:03
I am so excited that you’ve got there, and I witnessed the majority of your recovery from a distance, but you know, through regular updates and conversations and that. So I really want to just say congratulations on well done. It has been a massive undertaking to get to release date, because I know what came before the book. So thank you. It’s an absolutely amazing thing, and it’s the whole purpose this podcast exists because what I want to show other stroke survivors is the fact that the journey might be long, but things can get better.

Bill Gasiamis 1:20:43
Things can improve, great things can come of it. You can overcome so much more than you think that you can overcome. You’re a perfect example of that, you’re leading by example, you’re such a great example of that. Thank you, and just congratulations.

Antonio Iannella 1:21:01
Thanks, man. I’d also like to say, you, people like yourself that are doing what you do and making us strokes have always feel connected and introducing us to a world of we know such a such a minefield when you have your stroke. And I remember my early days and and how difficult it was, and now with some of the stroke community groups that I’m involved with and some of the posts that I read about people who are just entering into stroke.

Antonio Iannella 1:21:30
And I just I read them with such a heartache, you know? And so I know what that’s like, but people like you bring all of that together and just make you know that accessibility for all of us to just connect and go ‘Hey, you know there’s, there’s a way, there’s a way that we can make it work. So good on to you. Good to you, mate, good for you.

Bill Gasiamis 1:21:49
That brings us to the end of another episode, and Antonio’s journey of resilience, recovery and self discovery in life after stroke is a powerful reminder that even in the toughest times, there is hope and the way forward. His courage in adapting to life after stroke and his insights into emotional growth are truly inspiring. If you’ve found this episode valuable, or if the podcast has been a source of support in your own recovery journey, please consider supporting us on Patreon, at patreon.com/recoveryafterstroke.

Bill Gasiamis 1:22:27
Your support enables us to keep bringing stories like Antonios to stroke survivors and caregivers around the world. Every contribution makes a difference, and I’m deeply grateful for each one a special thank you once again to our newest supporters. JK, Jolene Oh and Cecilia, your support truly helps make this podcast possible. Thank you to everyone who has left a review on iTunes or Spotify Your feedback helps others find the show and creates a community of encouragement and resilience.

Bill Gasiamis 1:23:00
If you haven’t yet, please consider leaving a five-star rating or sharing your thoughts, it means so much. Thank you for joining me today, and I look forward to seeing you in the next episode.

Intro 1:23:13
Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals, opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast are the individual’s own experience, and we do not necessarily share the same opinion, nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed all content on this website and any linked blog, podcast or video material controlled this website or content is created and produced for information or purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis.

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The post Antonio Iannella’s Journey: Life After Stroke – Overcoming Challenges Abroad and Finding Purpose appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

Surviving an Ischemic Stroke: The Connection Between Ischemic Stroke and Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy, and How Self-Care Can Help

An ischemic stroke is a life-altering event that occurs when a blood clot blocks the flow of oxygen-rich blood to the brain, leading to brain cell damage or death. It is the most common type of stroke, accounting for nearly 87% of all stroke cases. One lesser-known contributor to ischemic strokes is hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (HCM), a genetic heart condition that can increase the risk of blood clots.

But, how does hypertrophic cardiomyopathy lead to ischemic stroke? And what self-care steps can individuals take to manage this condition and reduce the risk of stroke?

Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (HCM) is a genetic heart disorder where the heart muscle becomes abnormally thickened. While some people with HCM may experience no symptoms, others can develop serious complications such as arrhythmias (irregular heartbeats), heart failure, or the formation of blood clots.

The thickened heart muscle often affects how the heart pumps blood, leading to turbulence in blood flow, which may result in clot formation. If these clots travel to the brain, they can block an artery, causing an ischemic stroke.

Individuals with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy are at a higher risk for ischemic strokes due to several factors related to the condition:

1. Blood Clot Formation: As blood struggles to flow properly through a thickened heart, clots can form in the heart chambers, particularly if arrhythmias like atrial fibrillation are present.
2. Atrial Fibrillation (AFib): HCM is commonly associated with AFib, which causes the heart to beat irregularly. These irregular beats may cause blood to pool in the heart chambers, further increasing the risk of clots.
3. Reduced Blood Flow: Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy can impair the heart’s ability to pump blood effectively. Inadequate circulation increases the chances of clot formation, which can eventually lead to ischemic strokes.

Understanding this connection between hypertrophic cardiomyopathy and ischemic stroke is crucial, but more importantly, managing both conditions through self-care is vital for preventing stroke and maintaining overall health.

Managing hypertrophic cardiomyopathy effectively can significantly reduce the risk of ischemic stroke. Here are some key self-care strategies for those living with HCM:

1. Regular Cardiologist Visits: Routine monitoring is essential to manage HCM. A cardiologist can track heart function, identify any irregularities, and adjust treatment plans as necessary. Monitoring heart rhythm with devices like a Holter monitor can detect arrhythmias early, allowing for timely intervention.
2. Medication Management: Many people with HCM are prescribed medications to manage symptoms and reduce stroke risk. These may include:
   • Beta-blockers or calcium channel blockers to improve heart function and reduce symptoms like shortness of breath.
   • Blood thinners (anticoagulants) to prevent blood clots from forming, especially if atrial fibrillation is present. It’s crucial to take medications exactly as prescribed and consult your doctor before making any changes.
3. Adopting a Heart-Healthy Diet: A well-balanced diet can reduce the overall stress on the heart. Focus on foods that are low in sodium and rich in fruits, vegetables, whole grains, lean proteins, and healthy fats. Limiting alcohol and caffeine consumption is also recommended, as these can exacerbate arrhythmias.
4. Regular Physical Activity: While heavy exertion is often discouraged in individuals with HCM, regular moderate exercise can improve heart health and overall well-being. Activities like walking, swimming, and yoga are excellent options. Always consult your healthcare provider before starting any new exercise regimen to ensure it’s safe.
5. Managing Stress: Emotional and physical stress can trigger arrhythmias or worsen HCM symptoms. Stress management techniques like meditation, breathing exercises, and mindfulness practices can help reduce stress levels, improving heart health and overall well-being.
6. Sleep Hygiene: Getting adequate, restful sleep is essential for heart health. Individuals with HCM should prioritize good sleep hygiene, including maintaining a regular sleep schedule and creating a relaxing bedtime routine. Poor sleep can exacerbate heart conditions, increasing the risk of clot formation.
7. Monitoring Symptoms: Self-awareness is key in managing hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. Pay attention to symptoms like shortness of breath, chest pain, dizziness, or palpitations. If these symptoms worsen or new symptoms develop, it’s important to seek medical advice promptly.
8. Atrial Fibrillation Management: If AFib is a complication of HCM, managing it carefully is crucial to reducing the risk of ischemic stroke. Medications, lifestyle changes, and even surgical options (like catheter ablation) may be recommended by a cardiologist to keep arrhythmias in check.

For individuals with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, preventing ischemic stroke requires a proactive approach to heart health. In addition to self-care practices, there are several other preventive measures:

• Regular Blood Pressure Monitoring: High blood pressure can further strain the heart, increasing the risk of stroke. Monitor your blood pressure regularly, and take steps to keep it within a healthy range through medication or lifestyle adjustments.
• Quit Smoking: Smoking is a significant risk factor for both heart disease and stroke. Quitting smoking dramatically reduces the risk of ischemic stroke, especially in people with underlying heart conditions like HCM.
• Stay Hydrated: Dehydration can affect blood pressure and increase the risk of clot formation. Be sure to drink enough water throughout the day to keep your blood flow steady and your body functioning optimally.

Managing hypertrophic cardiomyopathy is essential for reducing the risk of ischemic stroke. By understanding the connection between these two conditions and taking proactive steps through self-care—such as managing medications, maintaining a healthy lifestyle, and monitoring symptoms—individuals can significantly improve their heart health and reduce their risk of stroke.

Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy doesn’t have to lead to an ischemic stroke. With the right care, attention, and prevention strategies, those living with HCM can lead a healthier, more fulfilling life while minimizing their stroke risk.

Discover how a near-death ischemic stroke caused by hypertrophic cardiomyopathy led to an extraordinary recovery journey filled with resilience.

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Highlights:

00:00 Introduction
01:55 The Early Signs of Stroke
06:38 The Out-of-Body Experience
13:07 Dealing With The Post-Stroke Deficits
17:13 The Survivor’s Guilt
27:41 Dealing With Emotions After A Stroke
35:16 The Pseudobulbar Affect
45:24 Changing Lives
55:41 Developing Empathy After A Stroke
1:03:33 Having The Time For Reflection
1:12:26 All Because Of The Stroke
1:18:14 The Hardest Thing About The Stroke
1:20:55 The Lessons From The Stroke

Transcript:

Bill Gasiamis 0:00
Hello everybody, and welcome to episode 325, of the recovery after stroke podcast. I am your host, Bill Gasiamis, and today I’m excited to bring to you the incredible story of Roderick Jefferson, a keynote speaker and a stroke survivor who faced a near death ischemic stroke caused by hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. In this episode, Roderick takes us through his remarkable journey how he flatlined during his stroke, the profound experience of seeing his late mother and the miraculous recovery that stunned the doctors.

Bill Gasiamis 0:40
Roderick opens up about the physical and emotional challenges he overcame, including battling aphasia, regret, regaining his motor skills and confronting survivor’s guilt. His story will resonate deeply with anyone navigating stroke recovery and inspire those looking for hope. Now, just before we jump into roderick’s journey, I want to take a moment to thank all of you who support the podcast. A special shout out to those who leave comments on the YouTube channel every day.

Bill Gasiamis 1:13
You’re amazing, your stories insights and support creates a community that uplifts and encourages others. I’d also like to thank the nearly 50 incredible people who have already left five star reviews on Spotify, and the many more who have done the same on iTunes. Your reviews help other stroke survivors find the show, and they mean the world to me. If you haven’t yet, please consider leaving a rating or review as it truly helps others find this valuable content.

Bill Gasiamis 1:45
Roderick Jefferson, welcome to the podcast.

Roderick Jefferson 1:48
Thanks for having me, I appreciate it.

Bill Gasiamis 1:51
Absolute pleasure, tell me a little bit about what happened to you.

Roderick Jefferson 1:55
So my stroke was about two and a half years ago. I am a keynote speaker. I was down in Los Angeles. I live up in San Francisco, Bay Area. So I was down in LA on a site visit, just checking out the place, getting ready for a keynote, and then I felt myself feeling really, really tired, not like I’d been working out too much, but a level of tired that I just never felt, and so we went to dinner, had couple cocktails, and felt like, other than that, a normal day.

Roderick Jefferson 2:28
The problem was, it was anything but normal. So I went to sleep as normal, woke up the next morning. So every morning I meet up with my wife, and we kind of sync on calendars, right? What’s going on with you? What’s happening with me? And that day, she said, wait a minute, something doesn’t sound right. Now, inside of my head, I heard a conversation like we’re having right now. What she heard was gibberish, and so thankfully, friend of hers had a small TIA recently, and so she walked me through the protocol.

Roderick Jefferson 3:01
And she, you know, What’s your middle name? I could remember, count to 10, that’s easy, 1, 2, 12, 27, 58 and then she said, say your ABCs. I was like, You’re kidding, right? She goes, No, say your ABCs, A, B, L, Q, W, X, Y, H, and she said, Go in the bathroom. Look at your face. Is your face drooping? I said, No. She said ‘I need you to call, and I had my team with me, said ‘I need you to call, Tim, you’re having a stroke.

Roderick Jefferson 3:32
They rushed me over to the emergency room, they do the protocol, unfortunately, it was too late for me to give the shot to break up the clot, and it turned out that I had a sleep stroke the night before. Now, bear in mind, there’s a 98% fatality rate when that happens, so I am now part, proudly, part of the 2% club, and I’m still here.

Bill Gasiamis 3:57
That’s.

Roderick Jefferson 3:58
That’s where it got interest.

Bill Gasiamis 4:00
Sensational to here, man.

Roderick Jefferson 4:02
Yeah, that’s where it got really. interesting, because I was flying back home that day from LA back up to San Fran. The problem was, when I got in the plane, the cabin pressure and the altitude I passed out. I got off, my wife and son were waiting for me, they rushed me to the emergency room, and I don’t remember the first three days when I was in the hospital, but I remember my wife saying, there was no reason he should be alive with that altitude and also cabin pressure, I don’t know how he’s still alive.

Bill Gasiamis 4:37
How do you get your head around that? Okay, so, you know, I’ll give you a little bit of a I’ll try and set the scene. Some people, they get into a car, they have a near miss. Do they take it as if they’ve already had the car? Lesion. They lose their marbles against the other person. It can become like a massive thing. Others people have a other people have a near miss, and they go ‘Oh, we missed everything’s all good. How do you go through those motions of trying to wrap your head around this near-miss, and the fact that you and I were talking about this right now?

Roderick Jefferson 4:50
I think if it would have just been that being the near-miss Bill, I would have been okay-okay, things are happening. I’m at a high level of stress, I know what’s going on, but when I got back to actually being clear headed somewhat again. I now stuttered aphasia, really bad, I was having a hard time focusing my eyes, I couldn’t remember what had even happened and that I was even on a business trip, and so then one night, my wife was and it was during covid, so my kids couldn’t see me.

Roderick Jefferson 6:02
All they saw was, you know FaceTime. My wife’s going home, and she’s crying. Like, is, take me, like, two hours to get a sentence out right? Like ‘babe, what’s wrong? And she said ‘I’m going home, and I don’t think I’m ever going to see you alive again. I was bad, really bad, because I was progressively getting worse and worse and worse, they now have me on full blown oxygen, I’m having a difficult time swallowing, and then that night, I hear Code Blue, and machines start going off, and everyone’s running into my room.

Roderick Jefferson 6:38
Now suddenly I go from Beep, beep, beep, beep, really fast, dude, beeeeep, I’m flatlined, I’m dead. Wasn’t near death, I was flatlined. So I float up to the corner of the room, I’m looking down on the doctors and nurses, they’re pulling fluids out of me, they’re doing chest compression, and I look to my left, and it’s my mom. My mom died in 1999 so now I’m not scared. I’m actually oddly at peace like I’d never felt before, I wear these glasses because, you know, getting gray and catching up in years.

Roderick Jefferson 7:17
I can’t see without these things on, I didn’t have them on that day, but I saw the most vibrant blues and greens and oranges and yellows, and I said to my mom ‘Okay, Mama, I guess I’ve done everything that I can, I’m ready to go. And she looks at me, and I remember exactly what she said. She said ‘No, baby, I was sent to tell you that you’re going to be okay and they’re going to figure this out. Now I’m sucked back into my body. I’m lying flat on my back, my chest is killing me because of the chest compressions, and she’s gone.

Roderick Jefferson 7:52
Now I’m still flatlined, but I can hear muddled, you know, kind of whispering and mumbling going on with the doctors, and they’re all trying to and suddenly I hear the one word that no one ever wants to hear Bill ‘Clear. I went ‘Oh no, this is not going to be good. Now bear in mind, I’m still flatlined at this time, but I can hear things, and it was kind of like when you go to the dentist and they give you twilight, where you’re not all the way out, but you’re really not there either.

Roderick Jefferson 8:24
That’s how it felt, and so he yells clear, and I can hear, it sounds like sandpaper, and he’s rubbing the paddles together. Now he’s coming down to shock me, and suddenly I go from beep to beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, I’m back now. I’m literally in the room, I can see everyone, everything goes ‘What’s going on? He’s coming down to me. I grab one of his hands before he gets to me and shocks me, I still can’t talk, but at least I have enough, you know, grip, to grab him, and from there, now that I’m back, they went into a whole different protocol, like I’ve never seen.

Roderick Jefferson 9:02
So I know it’s a long time explaining. Now I’ll answer your question. How’d I get my arms around it? Um, there were a couple things that happened. One was I was still somewhat incapacitated, but when I could finally clear, I remember I prayed the same thing every single night, not may I get better? Can I get to this? Can I do that? I prayed, God just let me wake up tomorrow.

Roderick Jefferson 9:31
And from there, it changed, as I started to come back, speech therapy, physical therapy, occupational therapy, the whole nine. I’ve got 10 different neurologists, and they’re checking on me right? And it turns out that it has changed my entire life, and it’s my four F’s, Faith, Family, Friends and Fun, everything else doesn’t even hit my radar anymore. The way I think, the way I approach things, my level of temper, everything has changed from that day because I was brought back for what reason? I couldn’t figure it out, and I’ve given up on trying to figure out.

Bill Gasiamis 10:09
Let’s take a quick pause here, but we’ll be right back with more of Roderick Jefferson’s powerful story before we continue, I want to remind you about my book ‘The unexpected way that a stroke became the best thing that happened. It’s filled with practical guidance and inspirational stories of stroke survivors who turned their adversity into an opportunity for growth, you can find it on Amazon or at recoveryafterstroke.com/book.

Roderick Jefferson 10:36
All I know is I am here to now share that story and also help others that they may not go through what I went through. And what I mean is having to learn how to use a spoon again, how to tie my shoes, how to button my buttons, all those things that we just take for granted, I don’t take anything for granted, we always say tomorrow’s not promised until you’re in a position where you really don’t have it tomorrow and you realize how amazing it is to walk across the room to the kitchen, to walk to the bathroom on your own, to be able to do what you do.

Roderick Jefferson 11:14
The worst part is by trade. I’m a keynote speaker. Imagine what that did to me, I stuttered so bad that I literally stopped talking, I went snow blind, I lost sight in my eyes, I lost the use of my left arm and my left leg. Had to work through all of that, and I am incredibly blessed to still be here. And like I said, I don’t even try and figure out why anymore, I just appreciate the fact that I’m here.

Bill Gasiamis 11:42
Wow, man, I love it. So you didn’t have the near-miss, you actually had the collision, and then you’re dealing with the aftermath and that whole floating above yourself and looking down and paying attention to what’s happening, and seeing your mom, and all those things we hear about people talking about that regularly, you hear about that you can never. You can never what’s the word? Relate to it, you can never understand it, you have to take those people for their word, and they’ve got no reason to be lying, but then.

Roderick Jefferson 12:23
You can’t make that up, no one’s that creative.

Bill Gasiamis 12:23
And then you experience it, and then it’s back into the world, and now, from that state of euphoria, seeing your mom being guided, now you’re back to Earth, and now you have to get through it well, not on your own, but without the spiritual connection from Mum, the way that she was to bring you back from where you were. So now you’re back, and now it’s still covid, and you’ve come you’ve come around, and they’ve kept you alive. So then what happens? Then, like, how do you navigate the next part of that awake time?

Roderick Jefferson 13:07
Well, the next part was all about, how do we now start getting the use of my faculties again? So I’m in the hospital for an extended stay now I go home and I’m still stuttering really bad, and still having a difficult time seeing, still not fully using all of my limbs. I remember it was a Saturday, matter of fact, it was November 20, because it was my son’s birthday the next day, and we were watching, listening my case, to an American football game, and I just got the worst sharp pain in my head I’ve ever.

Roderick Jefferson 13:48
Felt like someone was driving nails into my head, and I was screaming and literally on the ground crying that it was in pain so bad. I’m a big guy, 64-65, right? I was in a fetal position, then all of a sudden, it felt like a wave hit me of energy. I look up at my wife and my daughter, and I can see her, first of all, and I said ‘It’s clear as you’re hearing me right now, I’m not sure what happened, but I feel like myself again.

Roderick Jefferson 14:26
Where’d that come from? So they rushed me back to the emergency room, thinking maybe an aneurysm had burst, or something’s going on in my brain, and they took me back to the same hospital that I was just in because we wanted to get film of now post versus what I look like when I was in the hospital, they took them and they superimposed them on top of each other, they were carbon copy. So physically, nothing changed in my brain, but somewhere in the depths of it, my aphasia was gone, there was no stutter, I was able to move around again.

Roderick Jefferson 15:05
So I now am writing a new book called ‘The Miracle Man,and telling the entire piece. But now where it all started was twofold, I was an executive in corporate and traveling a lot, moving around high level of stress, and I became comfortable at that red line level of stress, and then it turns out that I have something called hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, where the normal heart squeezes. Now no blockage bear in mind, but the normal heart squeezes at about 55% to 65% when it gets down to 20% to 20% cardiac arrest, you’re gone.

Roderick Jefferson 15:47
That day when they rushed me into the hospital, I was at 22% of heart function after I got off that plane, I don’t try and figure out why me? Why did it happen to me? Why am I able to bounce back? I just roll with it. And again I have a whole I’ll call it a fixation, an addiction, almost to being able to help others not get to this level, and for those that are there to know that you can get through it. Now, I was in a bunch of support groups online that I had to drop out of because I started getting survivor’s guilt.

Roderick Jefferson 16:25
These are people two years later ‘Hey, I just used a spoon for the first time, I just walked 10 steps. And for me, I was like ‘I’m about to get on a flight and go to Amsterdam and do a keynote speech. Right? Now, on the plane, that’s when the survivor’s guilt kicks in lik ‘Okay, these people are far worse than me, because when you think stroke, you think Stroke-Stroke, they may never bounce back, they may never get back.

Roderick Jefferson 16:51
For me, it was about six months, and I felt like I was probably 90% back. But also bear in mind, I take 14 to 16 pills per day of medication just to stay balanced, I don’t take those, I don’t sound like the guy that you’re talking to right now.

Bill Gasiamis 17:13
Okay, let’s talk about the survivor’s guilt. So I experienced that, and it’s a common thing, you hear a lot of stroke survivors talk about that when you experience survivor’s guilt, like, what are you guilty of? What is the underlying emotion that you’re grappling with? For me, it was, Why am I so special? Why did I survive and they didn’t? Or why did I get away with the way that I did? I’m still living with deficits, but why? Why are mine? We’ll call it on a lower scale of deficit compared to other people.

Bill Gasiamis 17:54
And there was a lot of why questions, like, it was, Why me? But not why me? Why did this happen to me? Poor me. It was the other why me, which seems like it’s a it’s a positive questioning of the experience, so that I can then transform it into something beyond a bad experience, and like you make something out of it, like use it as a as a springboard to something else, something better. What’s your version of the survivor’s guilt-like?

Roderick Jefferson 18:32
Dude you’re spot on, It was never poor me, why did it happen? Why’d I have to go through this? Why’d I have to fight through it? It was, Why was I the chosen one? Why are these people still struggling and realistically? May never get back to quote, unquote, normal, if you will. It was also, how did it happen so fast? Now you would think someone that that has a spiritual background and relationship, that I prayed my prayers were answered.

Roderick Jefferson 19:02
‘Okay, great, now that should have been a phenomenal testimony, if nothing else, to be able to go out and tell the world that I don’t have to, whether it’s God, a higher be, or whatever it is that you believe in, to go out and put that story out, which I was doing, don’t get me wrong, but it was kind of half hearted at first, because it was yes that did happen. Yes, it did validate that there’s a higher being. Yes, I was spared. But then there’s also the rational side of humans, of ‘Why me? Right?

Roderick Jefferson 19:35
And again, I had to drop out of the the support groups, because I was healing at such a rapid pace that I actually was put into a study here at Stanford University with 11 different neurologists that had never seen it move as fast as far as I had done again, something else to your point, you would feel like should be positive, I was finding a hard time finding the positive, I was positive that I’m still alive and happy and thankful, but I could not rationalize ‘What’s so special about why me? and why are those poor people? And I didn’t mean this negatively or talking down.

Roderick Jefferson 20:18
It was, why are these poor people going through such a difficult, extended, elongated, and in some cases, lifelong, these people are never going to get back to what they were before and not I won’t even say normal, just where they were, where in this conversation with you and I, and I’m sure you’ve heard the same thing, people say you had a stroke. I would never know if you didn’t tell me, and then, in the mind, you kind of go ‘Why? Why me? I don’t want to give it back. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not tempting fate, but it’s something where, rationally, there’s really no explanation.

Bill Gasiamis 20:18
Well for me.

Roderick Jefferson 20:20
You feel the same?

Bill Gasiamis 20:21
I did, I had all of that, and this is where it’s evolved for me a little bit, and the guilt was, you’re not doing enough, you’re not doing enough, you’re doing you’re half assing it. You could be doing more and in a constructive way, in that a friend of mine, the podcast exists because a friend of mine put it in my head that planted a seed like because I was doing a lot of research to find out how I’m going to heal quickly, how I’m going to get better I’m going to get back to life.

Bill Gasiamis 21:41
How I’m going to recover my cognitive function and my ability to type and write and participate in life? Right? So I just My life’s completely different, I changed everything about the Bill that existed before, all that stuff, and then he kind of planted that seed is you’ve learnt a lot. He said ‘What do you know about stroke? And I could talk for hours about, what do I know for stroke? About stroke? What do I know about recovery? What do I know about mindset? Emotions?

Roderick Jefferson 22:13
What’s an ischemic? What’s a hemorrhagic? I’m sure maybe you don’t understand exactly what’s going on.

Bill Gasiamis 22:20
You name it, right? And then I said to him ‘Well, I’d like to share that with people and coach people get through it. You know? And it whenever, even when I said that, I said it to the point of, I’m going to do it one on one with people in my local area, and he said to me, like, one on one ‘How many people are you going to reach like that? And I said ‘I don’t know, I don’t know how many people there are in my area that need that kind of support. He said ‘You know, there’s this thing called the internet, you know, you could do it online.

Roderick Jefferson 22:49
Really big, it’s going to catch on one day, Bill, it’s going to take off.

Bill Gasiamis 22:52
Yeah, and I’m thinking ‘I can’t see that, I can’t. I can’t visualize how that could possibly be a thing, but I just accepted what he said and just took it on face value, and we had the conversation, and the conversation ended, but that planting of the seed and then that feeling of you’re not doing enough ‘Why me? Why did I make it? Combined somewhere they kind of merged, and then the result was ‘Okay, you need to do this online, you need to create a podcast, you need to work out what the name of that podcast is.

Bill Gasiamis 23:26
You need to work out who your audience is, and you need to do that every single week. And that’s kind of now ‘The Why-me kind of now makes sense. It’s like ‘Ah, that’s why me, because I was supposed to do this, get through it, learn from it, share the learning, and then put it out there on a global scale, so people can download it on the internet, audio, video, transcribe it, so that everyone can get their hands on it. And then, when you when that idea of stroke becoming the best thing that happened to me enters your head.

Bill Gasiamis 24:10
What the next thing is that you have to do is you have to actually write the book about it. And when I reflect back on those 12 years that I’ve been through this journey so far, all that seemed to come very quickly on reflection. It’s like going going through childbirth for a woman, you know, my wife, would say, at the beginning, she said, I’m never going through that again.

Bill Gasiamis 24:31
Quickly, she forgets about how hard it was. All of a sudden, three and a half years later, we’re pregnant again, and then you go through it again. It’s painful again, and it’s like ‘Oh, this is how hard it was, Oh, that’s why we didn’t want to do it again, but we did it anyway, and now that’s what the book was. The book was a very difficult thing to do, now that I reflect on it, man, that was such a great experience. The podcast was seriously hard to start, and now the I’ve got momentum and a system in place, it’s really easy to do record an episode and get it up and running.

Bill Gasiamis 25:05
So it’s like, that’s why me, that’s why, because I had to find a way to reach these people that was beyond, beyond my capabilities and my skills in the past, and as a result of that, the guilt the survivors part, the guilt of that has dissipated, and it’s now I’m on purpose. I found the the meaning in my life, and I and I’ve transformed this whole experience from being something that happened to me to something that I all I do is I reflect on it as a something that I’ve experienced, but it’s not traumatizing me on a daily basis.

Bill Gasiamis 25:48
I see it in the past, and now, the stuff that I’m doing is kind of guiding people at the next level so that they can move beyond where they are, and I don’t know how long it’ll take for them. So what I’m doing is going, you know, just go on the ride, and as hard as it is, reflect back every once in a while to see how far you’ve come, so that you can get a little bit of it, so that, so that you can feel empowered to take the next hard journey, because there’s more hard journeys to come.

Roderick Jefferson 26:27
First of all, thank you for your ‘Why, and thank you for keeping this alive and sharing it with the world and starting the podcast and writing the book. Because to your point, there are a lot of people that you’re you’re going to touch, that you’ll never meet, but you may be the motivating thing that pushes them over the top. Maybe that’s your why is you’re supposed to be that conduit to show others what success looks like, and I don’t mean professionally or monetarily, like we always look at success.

Roderick Jefferson 26:59
But literally, the fact that you were back as close to quote, unquote normal Bill as you were before stroke, that’s tough though, because again, if you are the anomaly, are we giving people hope that they may never get to? Or is it really the folks like you and I that do get back and we show them, and we show them a level of determination and grit and persistency and drive that they may never had, and either way, I think it’s a huge upside, I really do. I have a question for you after your stroke?

Roderick Jefferson 27:41
First of all, where was your stroke located? And secondly, after it was over, did you have any difference in emotions afterwards? Because I know for me, every time I said I had a stroke, I broke into tears. I’m not a big I have no problem with crying, but it took me over and consumed me, because mine was in my speech center, which is right next to the emotion center. So your story I’d love to hear.

Bill Gasiamis 28:11
So, I had a hemorrhagic stroke a faulty blood vessel. It was four centimeters, about one and a half, two inches from the from the ear into the middle of the brain, near the cerebellum. So it kind of affects your balance area. And in order for them to get to it, when they operated, they had to kind of move out, out of the way all the other parts of the brain, so they’ve interfered with a fair amount of it to get into there. When I woke up, I had numbness on my left side after surgery, and that has never gone away.

Bill Gasiamis 28:44
That was that’s been there since 2014 and that was the main symptom when I realized that I needed to be in hospital, that was the main symptom that I was experiencing in total left side numbness. So the initial experience with the numbness came because I had a blood vessel burst and the and the clot in my head was initially small, probably about the size of a dime, so they’re able to settle it down, but then, as it bled a second time.

Bill Gasiamis 29:15
The amount of blood was about the size of a golf ball and sitting there in impacting all of those areas that you can imagine a blood clot that big would impact. So, that made me emotional, it made me angry ,it made me all over the place, and it impacted my cognition, my ability to remember things, to write, to focus, to begin and start a sentence, a whole bunch of stuff kind of went really really wrong. And then as other things sort of started to come back online, when the clock, because the clock was in there for about two and a half years, but forever decreasing in size.

Bill Gasiamis 30:00
Because it’s being absorbed and broken up by the body, and as it’s decreasing in size, more and more of my functions are coming back on, but the emotional part was still a little bit off, and I would find myself in a situation where I would be on stage for the Stroke Foundation, having to talk about my condition, so that I can set the scene, so that I can talk to the to the audience about how to prevent stroke. And then as soon as I mentioned, you know, there was a keyword that might come up out of nowhere that I mentioned, I would burst into tears.

Bill Gasiamis 30:34
And there was no controlling it like previously, where you could, you know, you could, you know, change your face, and you could breathe differently or whatever, and you could stop it from happening, and then it continued happening, and to this day, it still continues to happen. So now we’re talking about 12 years later. I did the book launch a few, a few months ago, and I had a presentation in front of about 35 people where I was going to talk about my journey, how the book came to be, etc, around about a 20 minute speech, I cried four times.

Roderick Jefferson 31:12
Wow!

Intro 31:12
If you’ve had a stroke and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be. You’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind, like, how long will it take to recover? Will I actually recover? What things should I avoid in case I make matters worse? Doctors will explain things, but obviously you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask. If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery.

Intro 31:42
If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying and head to recoveryafterstroke.com. Where you can download a guide that will help you. It’s called ‘Seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke. These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke, they’ll not only help you better understand your condition, they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery. Head to the website now recoveryafterstroke.com, and download the guide. It’s free.

Bill Gasiamis 32:12
And it was so difficult to not cry, but I’ve accepted the fact that it happens, and when I do cry in that context, like it sucks the audience in even further.

Roderick Jefferson 32:27
Yeah, it’s crazy how that works, is it?

Bill Gasiamis 32:29
I have them in the palm of my hands.

Roderick Jefferson 32:30
Everybody’s on your journey, and they’re on the edge of their seats, and they’re they’re feeling sympathy and empathetic for you, and you’re like ‘If only I was good enough that I could have been here crying on demand, but that’s not what happened.

Bill Gasiamis 32:44
Not at all, right? And then, and then what happens is you get the message across. It’s more powerful, you know, really makes people sort of sit up and pay attention to the the the impactful nature of that, and part of the reason why I cried was because I can’t contain my excitement for being there, my excitement for people being in the room, my joy for being alive, I can’t contain my emotions because the journey that got me to a book launch has been so hard, arduous, difficult obstacles to overcome, and I’ve overcome them all, and still, there’s more to overcome.

Bill Gasiamis 33:27
And it’s like, I don’t know how to deal with all of that stuff, and I don’t know how Bill, the guy that I know before stroke, how that guy has found that within himself to get through all of that and be in that place, in that room, on that day after everything that he’s been through, I do not know those two people. They are two different people, and it’s overwhelming, overwhelming in a good way. So does that make you feel a little more?

Roderick Jefferson 34:06
Thank you for not feeling like I’m the only one going through this, right? And I’m sure there are a ton of us, but the similarities especially because we had two different types of strokes. Mine was ischemic, where the night, while I was asleep, as I said, a clot created in my heart floated up to my brain, lodged in the center of my speech center, and it just kind of went haywire and shut things down.

Roderick Jefferson 34:33
But the fact that we have a similar path, thank you for sharing that, because it definitely does give me an opportunity to see it through your lenses, and we’re seeing the same things, just from different angles. And so I was always wondering, Am I the only one going through this? Right there is and then I go to the stroke I go to Stroke Association to go and try and help, to speak for free, go and give back, I got nothing back from them, it was almost like we don’t want you to come help ‘We just want you to donate. And that infuriated me.

Bill Gasiamis 35:16
Okay, cool, right? So I get that a little bit too, right? And I’ll tell you my version of that. So firstly, you need to know there is a term for what we the emotional outbursts that we experience. It’s Psuedobulbar affect. It is very well documented, and people with neurological injuries experience it a lot. So Psuedobulbar affect, some people will have the crying version of it.

Bill Gasiamis 35:42
Some people will have the laughing version of that, where they laugh at in at times where it’s not appropriate. And it might be.

Roderick Jefferson 35:51
Yes, I didn’t get that.

Bill Gasiamis 35:52
Yeah, and it might be, even I’ve met people who have will cry at a funeral and sorry, will laugh at a funeral when they’re not meant to be laughing, but it’s that crazy outburst that they can’t control, so they have to make themselves scarce, they’ve gotta get out of there.

Roderick Jefferson 36:12
I think I’ll take the the crying type, I’m okay with that now.

Bill Gasiamis 36:17
It’s more endearing. So, there’s that now, with regards to the Stroke Foundation here in Australia, again, I’ve donated my likeness, I’ve been in TV ads, posters on the back of busses, they still have a online campaign where they use me as the face of the fast campaign, I presented for them, volunteered my time to present for them in the space of raising awareness about how to prevent stroke and how to recognize a stroke. Really cool things, right? All those things, but the challenge is that they are funded partly by the government.

Bill Gasiamis 37:06
And on the other side, they are funded by private donors, and their mandate is to run a scientific approach to preventing stroke, and that’s their biggest mandate. The other parts of stroke they’re not interested in, because they’re not funded to do that kind of work. So if I turned up and presented myself as somebody who would like to speak on their behalf, about my story that benefits them and me, and I requested payment or money for that, they wouldn’t be up for it.

Bill Gasiamis 37:50
I started my journey there, and then kind of found myself going, well, I could do all this on my own, I could, instead of run, put my time and effort into their organization who doesn’t have a mandate to support somebody like me, I could do this for myself in that and then not have to work within a mandate that doesn’t suit my desire and how I would go about presenting this now I’ve done 300 and nearly 10 episodes, something like that of a podcast.

Bill Gasiamis 38:31
If I was doing that for the Stroke Foundation, could you imagine what an amazing resource that would create for the Stroke Foundation, and they kind of have these little peripheral programs that they get a small amount of funding to create, but then the funding ends, and then they can’t continue it, so they’re very restricted with how they go about that. The next part for me is I wrote the book, and then I applied in a scientific way, I applied to present on my thesis. We’ll call the book a ‘Thesis’ for this particular scenario.

Bill Gasiamis 39:09
Which was the study that I did that found the 10 steps that people took that made them arrive to the point of saying stroke was the best thing that happened to them and that application that I put in was for the smart strokes conference, which is coming up in about two and a half weeks, and I was accepted to speak at the conference, It’s in Australia, it’s the smart strokes conference. A whole bunch of clinicians get together and they talk shop, and I’ll be there presenting my thesis for 12 minutes.

Bill Gasiamis 39:46
The idea, what I thought of how I developed the story, where I found my participants, what the outcomes were, the methodology I used, the conclusion, how they might be able to apply it in their clinics from now on, and then I’ll invite people to collaborate if they need to or want to see that is what I wanted to do for the Stroke Foundation, but they don’t have the mandate to do that. So here I am now in 12 minutes, I’m going to get to speak to, hopefully, hundreds of people who are specifically my audience.

Bill Gasiamis 40:23
I’m going to be able to potentially create a new conversation about how we can take this further. So from your perspective, because you’re already an accomplished speaker, you have a platform that you could use at some in some way in the future that you can add to your your toolkit this particular presentation that you feel is important for people to become aware of, with regards to stroke specifically, or the ideas around recovery From a stroke, like resilience, leadership.

Roderick Jefferson 41:02
That’s how I’m messaging and positioning it now, the resiliency and the determination and grit, those kind of things. But I love the fact that you figured out a way to message and position this to the medical community that mattered enough to them to give you a platform that you can now leverage outside of their world and inside of their world. I mean, you’ve got, what, 12 minutes you said. You’ve essentially got the equivalent of a TED talk with a live audience and Q&A That’s amazing. That’s ultimate goal, to do what you’re doing right now.

Bill Gasiamis 41:44
Yes, so I’m still fulfilling my desire to want to help. This will still, perhaps there’ll be Stroke Foundation people in that room, so they may not be the specific organization I’m representing, and that’s okay, but I’m still representing the stroke community, and that’s really what it was about. It was about, how do I do it? Still, even though these guys can’t, because of their mandate and the way they’re funded, can’t support somebody like me who has these types of desires.

Bill Gasiamis 42:18
So it’s great if they contact me and say ‘Can we use your likeness again? Or can we? Yep, I’m up for that, no problem, we can do that, I’m happy to be that guy. It’s not like they don’t remunerate you, they do, but on a very small scale, right? So it’s just to say thank you, and I appreciate that and that’s great, right? So from here on what I don’t know. And this is the beautiful part Roderick, is I don’t know what’s going to happen when I get to that end of that presentation, and that’s the part that really excites me, right?

Roderick Jefferson 42:54
That’s amazing, because you’re getting to fulfill your need of giving back right, to that guilt survivor, you get a chance to help kind of squelch and put that one to bed. And at the same time, you get a chance to help the medical community, really at a deeper level, personally, to understand what we are.

Roderick Jefferson 43:16
Now, here’s the piece that you really hit on, that struck with me, and that is, then what you never know who’s going to be in that room or that’s going to see that recording that propels you, your messaging and our entire stroke community to a whole other level. That has to be incredibly exciting.

Bill Gasiamis 43:39
It is the most energized I’ve ever felt. You know, it’s if I’m not working on it, it’s working on me. Why aren’t you working on me? Why aren’t you present? What aren’t you doing? You know? And it’s like, it’s always in my mind, I cannot escape, escape it. And in in a really good way, it’s like, oh, here’s a new idea for you that you didn’t think of five minutes ago. Write that down, act on that later. So it’s very it’s a very beautiful kind of, like organic.

Roderick Jefferson 44:15
It has to be somewhat cathartic and rejuvenating, but at the same time therapeutic and healing for you too. No?

Bill Gasiamis 44:25
It’s so much, it was a selfish pursuit, all of this stuff was selfish because I did it for me at the beginning, and then it was cathartic and therapeutic. And then I realized ‘Oh, this is way better than helping just me, because it’s also helping them. and that made the that just me thing much, much better. Because if I’m being selfish and doing it for me, and the result is somebody else gets something positive out of it, then it’s not really that bad-selfish, it’s not really that self centered, ridiculous, crazy one that you feel bad about.

Bill Gasiamis 45:04
It’s the one that you think I’m going to keep doing this because other people send me emails, they comment on my YouTube videos, they send me Instagram notifications. Everyone is reaching out and going, thank you for that episode. I love that chat. I really relate to that, and it’s like ‘Oh, I never knew that, that’s a bonus. Thank you.

Roderick Jefferson 45:24
Well, it part of it has to be self care now, right? It’s no longer selfish. It’s now self care, but at the same time it is you’ve learned to ‘Give, to give, as I put it, right. It’s not about you at all, you’re just a conduit to be able to help others that you may never, ever know, ever see, even exist, but it’s the impact of all of that struggle that we both had to go through that now could change someone else’s a number of people’s lives, especially with, you know, that thing called the internet that’s going to be big one day, right? You never know who globally you’re touching.

Roderick Jefferson 46:10
This isn’t just a regional thing, you’re not just doing this in a room in Australia with, you know, a finite number of people in the room. No, when you get that footage and it goes out on your YouTube and IG and all your social media there.,I firmly believe, and I do the same thing with my YouTube and IG pieces, I’m starting to put more and more of it out, and I firmly believe that somebody is watching those and being inspired to get better, I don’t know if they’re going to get well, at least, to get better.

Bill Gasiamis 46:46
Just aim for better and then see what happens. Now I’m going to go back and I’m going to comment on something that you said a bit earlier. You know, the whole issue of you and I, quote, unquote, appearing normal like it never happened, people seeing the recovery and thinking that’s what stroke looks like. I know people have had a stroke. They look fantastic, they they back to work, they do all this stuff, right? So I struggled with the title of my book ‘The Unexpected Way That A Stroke Became The Best Thing That Happened.

Bill Gasiamis 47:17
The first comment I made on YouTube about it, where I was promoting the book, holding it up and promoting it, somebody had a negative response, and the response was, how could you be promoting stroke as something worth experiencing and how amazing it was? And it’s like.

Roderick Jefferson 47:34
It’s amazing now.

Bill Gasiamis 47:36
Clearly I’m not promoting stroke. What I’m saying is that the post-traumatic growth is the part of the journey that you are going to be grateful for experiencing. It’s going to be hard, it’s going to be challenging, it’s going to make you cry, want to curl up, it’s going to be something you want to walk away from, you’re going to have to it’s going to be emotional, it’s going to be mentally difficult, physically difficult, but if you face those challenges, you will succeed in having post traumatic growth, some kind of positive outcome from facing those challenges.

Bill Gasiamis 48:20
And that is what your story and my story is about. It’s not about having people compare themselves to us and say ‘Well, it’s easy for you to say, Roderick, because look at you. It’s about saying that as bad as your situation is, everything can be improved, and if your mindset is that it can’t that’s the outcome that you’re going to get. But if you believe that you can improve something, and your mindset is one of a growth mindset, rather than a stuck mindset or a fixed mindset.

Bill Gasiamis 48:54
Then you’re going to experience a positive outcome, and if you don’t know, if you haven’t got the skill to focus on what’s good about this, then you’re going to be forever stuck in what’s shit about this, and that’s not a place you want to be.

Roderick Jefferson 49:09
Yeah, and we can only lead them to water. We can’t make them drink, right? And they’re never going to understand how we feel. And regardless of what is, I always say things to people, whether it’s death, whether it’s, you know, strokes, whatever it may be, I don’t know how you feel Bill, but I damn sure know how it feels. And so if I can turn that into again, someone that knows that or believes and starts to execute move forward on better, not well, but better. And you know what? I now understand my purpose for still being here, and I truly believe that is my ‘Why me.

Roderick Jefferson 49:59
We’re talking about with the survivor’s guilt of, why am I still here? I think it’s literally not to motivate but to really show others that it’s not just possible, it’s probable, it may not get back to the level where I am. To your point, don’t compare, right? My chapter 20 may be your chapter two, you never know, or you may be at chapter 20, and it’s just where you’re going to be. But incrementally, if you can see even the smallest of forward movement, to me that’s still progress.

Roderick Jefferson 50:41
And progress means a whole lot of different things, because every stroke is different to your to your point. People see us and we go, I’d never know, yeah, I always say, because I had a stroke, the people that never get back, they had a stroke, stroke, and that’s not to minimize what has happened to you and I, just the fact that there are tears and levels of strokes.

Bill Gasiamis 51:05
Yeah, I feel like part of my journey, also Rodrick is to just tell people about concepts that they may never, have never heard of before, like.

Roderick Jefferson 51:16
You’re a different phase of stroke now.

Bill Gasiamis 51:18
Yeah, like, if I just say, like, the post traumatic growth as a concept. Anyone heard of that before? Well, if you haven’t, you better start looking into that, because you need to know about it, right? So you can recognize it when it’s happening to you. What about Psuedobulbar affect? Well, you’ve never heard about that, well now you’ve heard about it.

Bill Gasiamis 51:39
That might make you feel a little better, and you can explain it to your family, who feel uncomfortable when they say a six foot four Man Mountain start crying in front of them and, you know, curling up in a ball. You can explain it, and that’s the reason that could be part of our journey is just to tell you about concepts you never knew about before, so that you can be more informed.

Roderick Jefferson 52:02
Think you’re under something, I think there may be another piece that just hit me while we were talking. We may be a new look and a new face of stroke, where you don’t think just stroke, stroke, right? It’s kind of like heart attacks. At one point, heart attack, you’re gone. Now, people have had heart attacks and gone back to semi normal lives. I think we’re able to show that as well and change the mindset of what stroke looks like and what stroke can look like, it’s not just full debilitation or you’re in a bed or you’re in a wheelchair, it’s also no back to semi normally function.

Roderick Jefferson 52:47
Like I said, I need those 16 pills to keep me, quote, unquote normal. But thankfully, it’s there, and it keeps me, and I don’t even say forward, keeps me balanced, because there’s been times where you know you’re busy, you miss your round of meds, I now know what that guy looks like, and then, by the way, it’s right below the surface, it’s not like he’s gone completely. He’s right below the surface, and without that balance, kind of like any other med, right, whether it be diabetes or by or bipolar or whatever, what the med does is it doesn’t take it away, it just gives you balance.

Roderick Jefferson 53:30
You take that away and that same blubbering, crying, stuttering, deep and aphasia guy comes back. I don’t want to see that guy if I don’t have to, it was the most difficult and the best thing that ever happened to me, because mine. Now, let’s go away from the neurologist. Now, this is my second stroke, I had a stroke five years prior, small on the other side, so I’ve had one on both sides now, my neurologist was talking to my cardiologist.

Roderick Jefferson 54:06
As we were doing a consult, my cardiologist said, then I remember it was over, he said ‘Thank God you had that stroke, or you would have been. And I had it october 28 ‘You would have been dead before Thanksgiving in September. Because it now brought up the heart issue because of the stroke, because that’s what caused it. Now, it shifted the focus. I was a healthy guy, I thought, I have a whole different definition and perspective of healthy these days, right? And I realized everybody’s going through something. My daughter has an autoimmune deficiency.

Roderick Jefferson 54:52
You look at her, you’d never see it like with us, we don’t walk around with a snap on our forehead that said, I have a I had a stroke that’s flashing you. But I guarantee you, if either of us parked in a handy spot and we got out of that car, people are looking at us like, seriously, guy, that’s the only place you could apply. Wait, where’d you get the placard from? How much did it cost you? And I’m looking at you going, you understand what’s bubbling underneath the surface. So what it did for me was gave me a whole different level of empathy for people.

Bill Gasiamis 55:25
Yes, yes.

Roderick Jefferson 55:26
I don’t assume anything, because you don’t know what they’re dealing, what they’re going through, or what it took to look like the person in front of you, maybe they’re taking 16 pills. Who knows?

Bill Gasiamis 55:41
Yeah, and then and then some maybe, you know, it’s empathy is a really cool thing to come from this as well. I’ve said it before on this podcast, I used to see people in wheelchairs and think they were just sitting down. I mean, what an idiot.

Roderick Jefferson 55:58
Never thought that one. No, clearly pre-stroke Bill was a different guy.

Bill Gasiamis 56:05
The guy was an idiot. He was so unaware of things, you know, you never once considered the emotional struggle that that person went through, why they were in a wheelchair, what happened to them, the trauma of say, the injury or like, there was just zero concept. And partly it wasn’t my fault, because I never experienced the life of somebody like that, but also I never knew anyone like that, so it was impossible for me to gain an understanding in an area that I had no connection with, right?

Bill Gasiamis 56:40
And the first time I realized what that was like was when I ended up in a wheelchair and I couldn’t use my legs for a month, like I know now what that means, and how difficult it was to wake up from brain surgery and try to get out of bed to go to the toilet, the nurse thinking that she was going to help me, and me collapsing with a fresh patch on my head after brain surgery, literally on the on the tile floor of the ward, and I know, and I know now what that’s like for the people who are in a wheelchair in a different situation.

Bill Gasiamis 57:19
So it’s like, I can’t believe you were that naive, but I was, and that’s not and I’m not now, and that wasn’t my fault, but I was, I was thick, and I’m glad I’m not, and and now I know people, I know More people who are impacted neurologically by stroke, and physically by stroke, and emotionally by stroke. I know more people than anyone, because I’ve interviewed 300 people that are all impacted by stroke. So it’s like, I am not. I’ve stepped up so I’m not that guy anymore, because he was a good guy, but he was just in la la land.

Roderick Jefferson 58:04
Yeah, yeah, and to your point, you never know what someone next to you is going through or has been through, or how much they had to fight just to be wherever you may be and see them that day, and so it makes you go. Life is a lot different now, and it will forever be changed. And I’m certainly on my side, glad that it has been changed, because I thought I was a good guy, but to your point, I didn’t.

Roderick Jefferson 58:39
You know, you don’t know until you know, what sort of the hours were you thinking I had control of my body and I can do whatever I want, and I’m Superman. No, you’re not, you’re just Clark Kent. That’s what you really are, and there’s no phone booth to go change anything. That’s all you are.

Bill Gasiamis 59:01
Wow. And there’s no phone booths at all anymore. They’ve taken them away.

Roderick Jefferson 59:05
Exactly so there are, there is nowhere to go change into Superman. So guess what? You better figure out who Clark Kent is, and start liking and loving that guy and doing something to give back, not just for yourself.

Bill Gasiamis 59:21
What sort of hours were you keeping, and what is the life of a speaker at your level kind of look like? And how does that juggling a young family and a marriage and all that stuff? How was life? What was it like?

Roderick Jefferson 59:40
At that time, I was back in corporate, so I was senior vice president. I was flying all over the world. I’ve got team in different geographies, different time zones. I’m eating badly. I’m constantly stressed. But again, I got to the point to where that red. Line of stress became the norm, and I realized that if you don’t slow down and and people say, were were there warning signs? Yeah, the first mini stroke was a warning, but it wasn’t bad enough to make me slow down.

Roderick Jefferson 1:00:15
So I went ‘Eh, okay, I felt kind of bad. Now I can move forward, but the second time it said ‘Hello, do I have your attention now? And when you’re laying there and you can’t move, you have a whole lot of time to listen now. Bear in mind, as keynote speakers, we’re talking all the time during that first I’ll say back to your analogy of baby, that first trimester of stroke, all I could do was listen, because I couldn’t move, and I had those conversations every day with God, and I’m like ‘Okay, you got my attention. I’m here now. But let’s I’m here to listen now.

Roderick Jefferson 1:01:01
At first I would say, let’s talk, and then something say ‘You’re not here to talk, you talked enough, you’re going to listen now, and you didn’t want to slow down. So now you’ve given me no choice, and you learn a lot about yourself introspectively, and it makes you reevaluate every part of your personality, of your whys, of your morals, of your scruples, of everything, because if you got nothing but time to think you’re like man, why was I like this? Why did I do this? Why was that important to me? Why was this not? What impact was I having negatively on other people?

Roderick Jefferson 1:01:44
Because I was either constantly frustrated, stressed or angry. And if I get out of this now, this distilling the if phase, if I get out of this, what do I promise to both God into myself that I’m going to do differently. So not just for the point of getting not getting back to that point, but because I found some really dark spots about myself that I really strongly know I hated, and I said, I’ve gotta clean out the closet that part of me has to die forever. I gotta take that corporate mask off. I’ve gotta be more authentic.

Roderick Jefferson 1:02:31
I’ve gotta allow people to touch you proverbially, right? We don’t want the HR issues, but people to really be close, and you know, as well as I do when we’re on the stage, we’re literally untouchable, because they came to listen, you’re supposed to be the subject matter expert, they’re here to hear what you gotta say. They’re looking to be enlightened, I used to do my keynotes, I’d get off the stage, I would go and sign books and go hide out in my room, because I’d be over stimulated by people.

Roderick Jefferson 1:03:08
Now I make sure that I’m touchable. I come off the stage and I let them know I’m the same guy that was up there that you see in front of you ‘What do you want to talk about? Do you want to go sit down. I used to say, grab a cocktail. Can’t do that anymore, right? And don’t miss it, frankly, but I think what I’ve done now is I’ve learned how to listen better.

Bill Gasiamis 1:03:33
Sounds like you didn’t have time for reflection, and therefore, you weren’t able to see what you needed to see to stop doing the things that were impacting you negatively. So then you had this moment where everything stops. You have nothing but time. And now, for the first time in years, you can reflect on what has come before the moment that you’re currently in, and you can critically analyze that and go, Oh man, it makes sense why I’m here ‘Ah, okay, all right, so how do I want to avoid being here again?

Bill Gasiamis 1:04:18
Well, I need to implement some changes. I need to look at the whole experience that I’ve had so far up until the day that I was unwell, and I need to make some changes. That is what I did. It’s exactly what I did, to the extent that what happened to me, Roderick is my brain. I describe it as having completely switched off, and then that enabled my heart to come alive. And I had a moment where I physically noticed something weird happening in my chest, really. And it was just that I became aware that my heart was there, not that I didn’t know that before.

Bill Gasiamis 1:04:58
Not that I didn’t feel it beating or whatever, but it actually came into my awareness in a different way, that it’s like you haven’t been paying attention to me for a long, long time. Your desires have been put on hold, and your your head has been running the show and telling you what the right thing to do is, and it’s not the right thing because you haven’t been happy for ages.

Bill Gasiamis 1:05:28
It’s all about chasing the dollar, and it’s all about working hard as possible and as many hours as possible, and being away from home as long as possible, and you haven’t done the things that I’ve requested of you, and that’s why you’re miserable, and that is not something that we can continue down the road in the future. And that was my second stroke. Was the are you paying attention yet? That was the second incident was, Are you paying attention yet? And since you’re thick and you’re not, or I’m going to make you see.

Bill Gasiamis 1:06:07
And boy, did that make me see. So the third incident, when I had the third bleed about a year and a half later, after the first one, no two or almost two and a half years later, something like that, about two and a half years later, after the first one, the third one was more clinical. It was more like, ah, by the way, I’m still here. I’m still bleeding. You just need to do something about this. Now. There’s business and then when my surgeon came and saw me after after knowing me for two years, she said to me, Well, we’ve been through this two times already.

Bill Gasiamis 1:06:50
This is the third time. It’s unlikely that it’s going to stop bleeding and the risk of you having a catastrophic stroke with this thing not being dealt with has just risen to the point where it’s more dangerous than brain surgery. Do you want to take it out? I was like, Yep, no problem, Yeah, I’m ready to do it. It was a very different experience. The first one was, hey, hey, hey. What about me? Look at me. Look at me. What’s happening? The second one was, you’re not paying attention. And the third one was all about business. Let’s just get this done.

Roderick Jefferson 1:07:29
Yeah, I pray that there’s not a third on this side. And then I sorry to hear you had to go that far, but I think you just really touched something inside of me, and that is, I think, what’s happened now is before that, I would see the world through my ego, and since then, I’m seeing the world through my heart. And that ego has taken a long step back, and now it’s how is this going to hit impact someone else? How can I possibly and and positively help someone else? It’s not a Me-me-me kind of thing.

Roderick Jefferson 1:08:11
And then even someone said to me, and a number of people said we noticed a difference in what you’re posting, even on social media and how you’re positioning these things before. It’s not about you in the book, it’s not about you, and the speaking, it’s everything I put up now is about, how can I help someone else, whether it be about the stroke, or about business or even like and I share a lot more personal stories and anecdotes in just in conversation, than I ever did before, because you have to, if people can’t touch you, you’re not, especially in the world of AI, you’re not real at all.

Roderick Jefferson 1:08:53
And first of all, you’re not being real with yourself. So you could never be completely open to everyone else. I believe that I’ve got a lot more sunsets behind me than sunrises in front of me. I want to maximize every one of them that I have, and I want to know that every day I did something to help somebody else. I may not be able to make your life better, but maybe just a little easier.

Bill Gasiamis 1:09:26
See, and you had that in you because your career, and I’ll speak about your book right now. So Sales Enablement 3.0 the blueprint to sales enablement excellence, right? So your career was deep down, really still always about making other people successful. It was still all about enabling people and organizations to Excel. As selling, so that the company could benefit, so that they could benefit, so that the person buying the product would benefit from the product that they purchased.

Bill Gasiamis 1:10:10
However, seeing, having a career in that space through only the ego is kind of like one, it’s only 1/3 of the actual pie as to how to make a successful interaction when you’re selling something, for example, if you’re just connecting to people via their head, and all the numbers are great, you might be missing the opportunity to connect to somebody via through the heart.

Bill Gasiamis 1:10:39
Which who is more touchy feely, not in the actual physical version of it, but in the way that you know they want to be spoken to or looked at or or encouraged, or you might miss the opportunity to understand what their values are, and that makes a sale not land correctly, and therefore they don’t buy. Like there’s so many different things that you can enhance by going through the heart and adding this additional layer to your bow of the head.

Bill Gasiamis 1:11:12
Version of selling, because that’s a that’s that’s got it worked out, right? But then it’s this, this other part of connecting with people you can’t do it with the head, you can only do it with the heart.

Roderick Jefferson 1:11:23
I describe it as pre-stroke, I was teaching people how to sell post sell. Post-stroke, I’m teaching people how to help.

Bill Gasiamis 1:11:32
Yes.

Roderick Jefferson 1:11:36
Now it doesn’t change the mechanisms, it changes the approach, and it literally took the spotlight off of me. Turn it around, and I now put it on the the sellers and or the prospects or the clients. It’s no more, how do you sell? It’s all about how can I help? And it is so much more fulfilling now than when I was making way more money before, but now I can look in the mirror and say, I don’t just like I love the guy that I see, and not an egotistical way. I love him for what he’s doing for others now.

Bill Gasiamis 1:12:26
Yeah, it’s a good place to be, man, it’s a completely different way to completely different way to turn up in the world and to participate in the world and to engage with people. It’s just look and it’s all that’s what I keep coming back to. It’s all possible because of stroke. I mean, it’s just in crazy that it’s all possible because we are able to reflect on things that we wouldn’t have been able to if we didn’t have this thing happen to us. That’s I’m going to be on stage speaking to clinicians for 12 minutes, and then I’m going to have three minutes of Q&A because of the stroke, it just.

Roderick Jefferson 1:13:16
Actually, I think I looked it in a different set of lenses, you’re on stage for 15 minutes because of who the stroke. The stroke has helped you become.

Bill Gasiamis 1:13:29
Yes indeed.

Roderick Jefferson 1:13:31
And it’s not to negate what you’re saying. I think it’s more about the guy today, Bill versus pre-stroke. Bill, and they’re going to want to know the why and what changed you, and how do you go through life differently now, where you’re looking at going, it’s just who I am now, yeah, and it’ll be far more authentic that way.

Bill Gasiamis 1:13:55
Yeah. So that’s why the book title, you know that’s why, not for any other reason. That’s the only reason why the book title is the book title ‘The unexpected way the stroke became the best thing that happened. I would have rather learnt the lessons in a more different way, but I apparently I couldn’t. So here we are, I’ll take the lessons whichever way they want to come, and that’s I’m okay with that.

Roderick Jefferson 1:14:26
Thankfully you’re still here, yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 1:14:29
So tell me about your what the future has in store for you. Like, where are you at with that? How are you seeing yourself participating now, in in your work life, in your home life, and in all the other parts of your life.

Roderick Jefferson 1:14:49
I go back to that word balance, right? I just was blessed with my first grandchild six months ago, little girl and I am enjoying this so much now, one, I’m still here, but I now get a chance to see her mom in her at that age, all over again, but at her mom’s age, I was ladder climbing. I was trying to get to that next level. I was moving to try and get promoted.

Roderick Jefferson 1:15:18
I was trying to get, oh, I have a chance to and and it’s the two words that that I hear all the time in my home, and that is, be present, I have a chance to be present. When I’m talking to people, I try to be more present. Used to be I’d be talking to you and I’m checking my phone, or nah, you have my attention. I have yours. I think I’ve gone from a life of presentations to a life of conversations, and I’m loving it right now.

Bill Gasiamis 1:15:59
That’s a pretty profound switch.

Roderick Jefferson 1:16:03
Just feels right.

Bill Gasiamis 1:16:06
Yeah, it’s a two way conversation, whereas before it was one way.

Roderick Jefferson 1:16:14
Yeah, I leave the keynote guy up on the stage, even on the stage now I’m up there having conversations. I’m not giving presentations anymore. I’m talking a lot more about this subject than just the the productivity and the revenue piece, and I’m still doing that, don’t get me wrong, and there’s a place for that, but I think because of this, it’s given me a different platform now, and also different to your point of going and doing your 15 minute coming up, it gives us different stages, which now gives us an opportunity to impact different people differently.

Roderick Jefferson 1:16:55
It’s not just about the money. Money doesn’t hurt, but it’s not that’s not the primary driver, it’s How can I go and help somebody and and my wife says the same thing every time I leave, or when I’m jumping on something like this, she’ll pop her head in, she’ll look at me, and she says the same thing every time go make a new friend, and it just puts me into a whole different mindset and a different phase of life. Go make a new friend.

Roderick Jefferson 1:17:31
If we can do that every day, imagine how much sweeter life is because there’s enough garbage going on out there in the world, but at the same time, there are still some wonderful folks. And I saw something on social media the other day. There are a lot of really good people in the world. If you can’t find one today, be one.

Bill Gasiamis 1:17:58
Yes, that is awesome. I want to, I’m aware of your time, and I want to get us to the end, because I this could be a very long.

Roderick Jefferson 1:18:11
We could talk all night about this conversation.

Bill Gasiamis 1:18:14
So, with that in mind, what was the hardest thing about stroke for you?

Roderick Jefferson 1:18:22
The hardest thing was, as an athlete, not having any control of my faculties, as a speaker, not being able to articulate what I was feeling and going through, that was the hardest part. Well, that was second hardest, the hardest was seeing the pain in my family’s eyes and every day being terrified as to whether or not I would wake up the next day. That was tough on me, you know, as a man, I’ve been married for 34 years now. I’ve got two lovely children, grandchild. I’ve always believed that my role was to provide and protect, I can’t protect or provide for-from not here.

Roderick Jefferson 1:19:14
That was the hard part. Remember when I came home from the hospital laying on the couch and thinking, if it’s crazy stuff that goes through your head, if someone busted the door down now and ran into my house, there was nothing I could do, nothing. And so what it did for me was it opened up, I’ve never really considered myself to be religious, but it opened up a whole different level of spirituality for me, and also, I realized that every time I tried to drive the bus, proverbially of life, I hit a wall or a tree, which I include the stroke.

Roderick Jefferson 1:19:54
But I realized when I sit in the passenger side and I let the. God, drive, I’m realizing how beautiful the scenery is that I missed out on by just trying to always be in control, always be in on top of things. Now it’s not about power, control, any of that, it’s literally about enjoying now, I’m not saying I live in its utopia, but things that used to frustrate me, I’ll admit it, I had a really, really bad problem with road rage, especially here in San Francisco, Bay Area.

Roderick Jefferson 1:20:35
Now, things that used to just infuriate me, they don’t even hit my radar anymore, not at all, I’m like ‘Wow, could be worse. And I’m reminded every time I drive past my hospital, it could be a lot worse, right?

Bill Gasiamis 1:20:55
Yeah, what is something that stroke has taught you? I know we’ve spoken a lot about the lessons, but what’s something that stands out?

Roderick Jefferson 1:21:06
What stands out for me is personally, we do all of the things we do professionally to again, provide and protect and take care of your family, but everything that I was doing was actually taking me away from them more, and I was too egotistical to even see it. I was loving being on the road. At one point, I was seeing beautiful places. I was going everywhere. I remember my kids got older, and they’re like ‘Dad,sure, we loved Hawaii.

Roderick Jefferson 1:21:33
We loved having a really nice, affluent life, but we would have wished that you were home, my friends dads are at our basketball games, our cheerleading pieces, our dancing competitions. I’m looking around like, where’s my dad? I miss my daughter’s eighth grade graduation. I was in Paris. It was a beautiful view, but she’s 34 now, and she still will never let me forget that. I mean, so now it goes back to being present.

Bill Gasiamis 1:22:07
There’s people listening who in to learn from our discussion, and they’re probably all, all over the spectrum of stroke and then recovery. Would you like to tell them? What kind of wisdom is this something that you could impart for the people that are where we’ve been before.

Roderick Jefferson 1:22:37
It’s going to get dark, gonna get really dark. Don’t give up because there’s somebody counting on you to get back, and if you remember your why, you’ll keep fighting. And like both you and I have talked about for the last hour, the lesson that comes out of your stroke may not be for you, it may be for everyone else around you, or people that are watching and paying attention that you don’t even know exist, don’t let them down.

Bill Gasiamis 1:23:16
Yeah, that is a very cool answer that’s kind of like the what kind of example, do you want to lead? Do you want to be the terrible example of how you go about recovery and how you overcome things? Or, do you want to be the example of, say, your loved ones are watching, or your grandkids are watching. You want to be the example of when they go through something terrible in their life, which inevitably they will.

Bill Gasiamis 1:23:50
They’ve got a a previous experience that they can reflect on and go, Well, okay, that’s how that person handled them. I wonder if I could perhaps go down that path, then one of those really terrible ways of handling a diversity.

Roderick Jefferson 1:24:10
Absolutely, I firmly believe that legacy is what happens when you don’t care who’s watching, because you’re just being real, an optimal dig, that’s legacy, everything else is brand and marketing at this point.

Bill Gasiamis 1:24:29
Thank you so much for being on the podcast, for reaching out and for connecting with me and sharing your story.

Roderick Jefferson 1:24:35
Thank you so much. I truly appreciate it.

Bill Gasiamis 1:24:38
That brings us to the end of episode, 325 I hope Roderick Jefferson’s story of surviving a near death ischemic stroke inspired you as much as it did me. His resilience and determination and journey of post traumatic growth offer hope for anyone navigating the ups and downs of recovery before we wrap up, I want to give a heartfelt thank you to everyone who leaves comments on the YouTube channel every single day, you are part of what makes this community so special, and your words often touch the lives of stroke survivors around the world.

Bill Gasiamis 1:25:14
I also want to acknowledge the almost 50 people who have left the five star review on Spotify and the many more who have done the same on iTunes, Your support makes all the difference helping others discover the podcast and offering them the same encouragement you found here. If you haven’t already, please consider leaving a five-star rating on iTunes or Spotify, and for those watching on YouTube, remember to like, comment and subscribe to stay updated on future episodes. And finally, if you’d like to further support the podcast, head over to patreon.com/recoveryafterstroke.

Bill Gasiamis 1:25:47
Every contribution helps us bring more stories like Rodericks, to those who need hope and guidance on their recovery journey. If you’re a stroke survivor with a story to share, I’d love to hear from you. My interviews are relaxed and unscripted, so just come as you are. You can also visit recoveryafterstroke.com/contact. If you’d like to sponsor an episode of the show, please get in touch. Thanks for joining me on the podcast today, and I can’t wait to see you on the next episode you.

The post Surviving an Ischemic Stroke: Roderick Jefferson’s Journey with Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy and Recovery appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

Many stroke survivors experience a crisis of meaning during recovery, questioning identity and purpose. This moment of loss can lead to profound growth and a rediscovery of life’s deeper meaning, turning adversity into a new beginning.

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The post The Crisis of Meaning in Stroke Recovery: Transforming Adversity into Personal Growth and Purpose appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

A basilar artery stroke is a type of ischemic stroke that occurs when the basilar artery, which supplies blood to critical areas of the brain, becomes blocked. This artery is part of the posterior circulation system and plays a vital role in delivering oxygen-rich blood to the brainstem, cerebellum, and occipital lobes. A stroke in this artery can be severe, often leading to significant neurological damage due to the areas of the brain it affects. Let’s explore the causes, symptoms, diagnosis, and recovery process associated with a basilar artery stroke.

Like other ischemic strokes, a basilar artery stroke occurs when blood flow to part of the brain is obstructed. This can happen due to:

The symptoms of a basilar artery stroke can be wide-ranging and severe, as the stroke impacts vital functions governed by the brainstem. Common symptoms include:

These symptoms may develop rapidly or gradually, which can make diagnosis challenging in some cases. Prompt medical attention is critical to minimize damage and improve outcomes.

Early and accurate diagnosis of a basilar artery stroke is crucial to effective treatment. Common diagnostic tools include:

Once diagnosed, the treatment of a basilar artery stroke focuses on restoring blood flow and minimizing damage. Common treatment options include:

Recovery and Rehabilitation

The recovery process following a basilar artery stroke can be long and complex, as it depends on the extent of the damage. Stroke survivors may experience varying degrees of physical, cognitive, and emotional challenges. The key elements of stroke rehabilitation include:

Basilar artery strokes can be life-threatening, but with prompt treatment and comprehensive rehabilitation, many survivors are able to regain some or all of their abilities. Recovery may take months or even years, but continuous progress is possible with the right support and persistence. It’s also essential to adopt lifestyle changes to reduce the risk of a recurrent stroke, such as eating a healthy diet, exercising regularly, managing stress, and adhering to prescribed medications.

A basilar artery stroke is a serious medical event that requires immediate attention. Early diagnosis and treatment can make a significant difference in the outcome, and rehabilitation plays a vital role in helping survivors regain independence. With the right medical care and support, many individuals can lead fulfilling lives after a basilar artery stroke, embracing their recovery journey one step at a time.

If you or someone you know is at risk for a stroke or has experienced one, stay informed and proactive about stroke prevention and recovery strategies. Early intervention saves lives, and rehabilitation restores hope.

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00:00 Introduction
07:56 Hospital Assessment and Initial Rehabilitation
13:28 Basilar Artery Stroke
15:38 Medical Advice and Dietary Changes
26:18 Emotional and Psychological Impact
38:21 Driving and Independence Challenges
50:58 Learning and Adapting Post-Stroke
56:33 Losing A Loved One While Recovering From A Stroke
1:01:14 Reaching Out To People In Times of Loneliness
1:08:24 The Hardest Thing About The Basilar Artery Stroke
1:16:23 The Good And Bad Days In Recovery
1:21:43 The Lessons From The Basilar Artery Stroke

Norman Vandal 0:00
Hello everybody, and welcome to episode 324 of the recovery after stroke Podcast. Today, I’m excited to bring you the inspiring story of Norman Vandal, a stroke survivor of a basilar artery stroke. In this episode, Norman shares his journey from the initial symptoms of his stroke, through the challenges of rehabilitation and his determination to regain independence.

Bill Gasiamis 0:28
He talks candidly about the emotional ups and downs of recovery, his time in stroke rehabilitation, boot camp, and the lessons he learned along the way. Norman’s story is one of resilience, grit and commitment to reclaiming his life after stroke, his experiences will resonate with anyone who’s been through the stroke recovery process or supported a loved one through it.

Bill Gasiamis 0:54
You won’t want to miss this powerful episode packed with insights into stroke rehabilitation, overcoming fear and rebuilding after a stroke. Before we dive into Norman’s story, I’d like to remind you of how you can support the podcast. If you find these episodes helpful, inspiring or insightful, please consider supporting the show through Patreon, at patreon.com/recoveryafterstroke.

Bill Gasiamis 1:22
Your support helps keep the podcast going and allows me to continue sharing these powerful stories offering hope and practical advice to stroke survivors and their families. Thank you for considering it. Norman Vandal, welcome to the podcast.

Norman Vandal 1:39
Thank you.

Bill Gasiamis 1:41
Thank you for being here. Tell me a little bit about what happened to you.

Norman Vandal 1:43
Well, I don’t know if you’re familiar with the Thanksgiving holiday in the States. Kind of a celebration of the harvest and so on. And I was scheduled to go up to dinner with my daughter in law’s mother and my family, and they live in Shelburne, which is about 60 miles away. And my contribution to the meal was to make some mashed potatoes.

Norman Vandal 2:13
I grow a lot of potatoes in the potato piece field near here, and I always contribute potatoes. So I got up in the morning and peeled some potatoes and boiled them, and a while later, when when they were done, I took them over to the counter, and I was starting to mash them, and my right leg started to feel a little bit strange, like, if it was a four cylinder engine.

Norman Vandal 2:41
It was maybe running on three and a half cylinders, You know. I could still walk and move it okay, but it had a kind of odd numbness to it. I’m quite conditioned to feeling sciatic pain from arthritis in my spine. And I assumed it was some variation of sciatic pain. It persisted. It didn’t get worse.

Norman Vandal 3:05
I finished making the potatoes and got in a truck and left, and on my way to Shelburne, I stopped and put gas in in a gas station. And I was, you know, very comfortable doing that, but I could still feel the weirdness in my leg, and I started to drive, and I got probably about two thirds of the way there, and it started to happen in my right arm.

Norman Vandal 3:31
So now my right arm and right leg are feeling weird, and I knew something was wrong, and I knew that, since it was all on one side that it was most likely a stroke. So I continued to drive, which I’m not sure was the smartest thing, but I had to get somewhere. And so I drove, and I got to to my daughter’s daughter in law’s mother’s place, and I walked in and said, Carol, ‘here are your potatoes. I’m having a stroke.

Norman Vandal 4:06
And she said, you are. And I said, Yeah. How do you know? Well, I explained, and she said, Well, what do you want to do? And I said, I need to go to the hospital now. So she got an ambulance to come, and they, you know, fired me up to the University of Vermont Medical Center, and I was admitted immediately, and they started doing imaging.

Norman Vandal 4:31
And during that time, it was getting progressively worse. Not that I was entirely noticing it but my children, who were now there with me, started to notice it. They brought me food to eat, and I was really unable to hold a utensil and eat.

Norman Vandal 4:56
And my daughter said to me, she said, you know, Dad, you can’t eat. Your hand isn’t working. And I was like, Oh, no kidding, you know, really. And I noticed that my leg wasn’t functioning really well either. And she noticed it before I actually felt it. And then I realized what was happening to me.

Norman Vandal 5:20
At that point, I started to get pretty concerned, you know, because this was happening slowly, and that felt strange to me, because I never heard of a stroke taking that long to happen, the full effects of the stroke. I mean, this started about 8:00 to 8:30 in the morning, and it really wasn’t until 7:30 or so that night when it had done the most damage it was going to do.

Bill Gasiamis 5:50
So how long did you take to get to hospital though, how long?

Norman Vandal 5:55
It was very quick, because the hospital was like 10 miles from the house, and the ambulance came right away. It probably took me maybe 35 minutes.

Bill Gasiamis 6:08
When you went to hospital and said, I think I’m having a joke. Did they agree with you? Did they treat that seriously when you said that?

Norman Vandal 6:18
You know, they started imaging right away so I’m assuming that they did. You know, it’s interesting. And I don’t know if your other people who write in other patients feel this, but I was really, I was kind of out of it, you know, really sort of confused as to what was going to happen next and where was this going, and so on.

Norman Vandal 6:42
And plus, my children were there, and they were very capable. Both, very very intelligent adults. And they were pretty much dealing with the doctor, and I was basically in bed, you know, almost being introspective and trying to figure out what the heck was going on..

Norman Vandal 7:02
But they did the imaging right away, which leads me to believe that, yes, they knew. And from my description of it being one on one side, they knew I was having a stroke, you know.

Bill Gasiamis 7:15
So just all the things that I think are weird is that even though you were having a stroke, and you suggested that you’re having a stroke, and they were doing the imaging.

Bill Gasiamis 7:25
They gave you food. And stroke survivors, or stroke patients, while they’re in that state of having a stroke, may have some challenges with their swallowing, and therefore, food is probably not the right thing to do unless they’ve assessed you. Perhaps, did they assess you?

Norman Vandal 7:43
No. No, they didn’t. They didn’t assist me at all, you know.

Bill Gasiamis 7:49
Assess. Did they assess you?

Norman Vandal 7:52
Pardon? They assessed me?

Bill Gasiamis 7:54
Yeah, did they assess you?

Norman Vandal 7:56
Yeah, eyes and, you know, and so on. And, you know, movement, and could I cross my legs and that sort of thing, you know. And I have a feeling that they must have felt that it had done its damage, and it was minimal, you know. I guess, I found, as I said, when I wrote to you about my experiences, you know, which was very brief.

Norman Vandal 8:24
That I had a lot of questions, you know, and you’re asking some of the questions that I had. And because I’m in a very rural place, the hospital communication isn’t always the best, and I’ll explain that a little bit better further on. But by the time the stroke had done its damage. I was unable to move my right leg, if at all.

Norman Vandal 8:56
I could pick it up slightly. I was able to cross my legs, which they asked me to do. I could lift my right arm, but I had no dexterity or movement in my hand. I had no facial paralysis. I had no cognitive damage. I was able to speak. I had a little bit of numbness on the right side of my mouth that I could tell that it was affecting my pronunciation.

Norman Vandal 9:27
But I don’t think it was noticed by other people. And that’s sort of a syndrome that I felt all the way through the stroke, and still do, because people say to me, man, you’re doing really well. And in my mind, I’m saying, Yeah, but you don’t know how I feel, you know?

Norman Vandal 9:44
And that’s probably a standard thing, you know. If it looks good, we’ll call it good, but in my mind, it’s not where I want it to be, you know.

Intro 9:47
If you’ve had a stroke and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be. You’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind, like, how long will it take to recover? Will I actually recover? What things should I avoid in case I make matters worse? Doctors will explain things but obviously, you’ve never had a stroke before.

Intro 10:16
You probably don’t know what questions to ask. If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying and head to recoveryafterstroke.com. Where you can download a guide that will help you. It’s called seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke.

Intro 10:38
These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke. They’ll not only help you better understand your condition, they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery. Head to the website now recoveryafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.

Norman Vandal 10:54
So I stayed in the hospital there for three nights, and the plan was to send me to a rehab center called Fanny Allen, which is part of the UVM network. This is a teaching hospital. It’s a hospital with a good reputation, but Fanny Allen has a superb reputation, but people call it the boot camp.

Norman Vandal 11:23
And there is a reason. There was a young man in the bed next to me in my room who was very young, like in his early 40s, and he had a stroke, and his condition was about the same as mine.

Norman Vandal 11:40
You might have had a little more serious paralysis, and he was waiting to go to Fanny Allen, the same way, and we were both concerned as to who was going to go first, because there’s a lot of demand for people to go and a lot, and I was really fortunate to be be able to get in there right right away, because I feel that that’s what really saved me in a lot of ways, you know.

Norman Vandal 12:10
Yeah, so when I went to Fannie Allen, I was checked in, and I was assessed by a PT and an OT. And there was a different neurologists there working with me. And the following morning I moved into in the evening, and the following morning I started into pretty heavy duty PT, right away. I couldn’t walk.

Norman Vandal 12:35
I could walk barely with a walker, but it was just no control, really, and it was something they didn’t want me to try or do. But immediately they got me into walking briskly on treadmills using a harness suspended from a harness, and that way, if I fell, I was caught. And I, honestly, I knew sort of intrinsically or even philosophically that this was the best thing for me. This boot camp.

Norman Vandal 13:11
But it was frightening. I mean, it really in some mornings I had like a scheduling, a protocol for the day, and some mornings I felt like hiding under the covers. I mean, it was just grueling, absolutely grueling, tiresome.

Norman Vandal 13:28
More, you know, both physically tired, but just almost emotionally tired, you know. Just really, really a feeling I’ve never had before. I had really, really good people. But to backtrack a little bit. When I left, I met with a neurologist at UVM a couple times who was taking my case, and she told me that I had a stroke because of blockage in my basilar artery on my left side.

Norman Vandal 14:07
Which affected my right, you know, motion and so on of my of my right side, she gave me some targets that I had to try to achieve, you know, sort of in my own personal life habits. And I had an A1C of about 6.1 which meant I was essentially type two diabetic.

Norman Vandal 14:38
I had an LDLC, you know, cholesterol that was up around 120 and my blood pressure, typically was maybe 160 over 80, you know, for blood pressure, and I’d been dealing with that my entire life, but not dealing with it as seriously as I am now, I can tell you, you know, and I should have dealt with it more more seriously.

Bill Gasiamis 15:05
Those medication you were taking?

Norman Vandal 15:09
Yeah, I had been taking medication for blood pressure and for cholesterol and I had been taking a statin, which I probably should have stayed on, but I dropped off of the statin because it was giving me muscle problems, and that’s happening to me right now, on a statin that I’m taking.

Norman Vandal 15:38
I know the seriousness of taking a statin, and I’m going to be back on and I’m right now I’m on a hiatus to try to get this back and to leg pain to go away. The neurologist at the Fannie Allen explains something to me, and I don’t know if this is something you’ve heard from other people or sort of dissected from conversations about statin.

Norman Vandal 16:03
But explain that what the statin does, aside from from lowering your cholesterol, you know your your your bad cholesterol and elevating the good cholesterol, explain that what happens to plaque in your arteries, that it it, it can have a rough surface, and if it does, it interrupts the flow, and it’s sort of like a stream going over stone.

Norman Vandal 16:30
You know, wild river, and it makes eddies and disturbances in the flow, and that causes differences in velocity, which makes more plaque developed. And he explained to me that that maybe the best part about taking a statin is that it’s been shown to smooth out those blockages, which makes them more stable and that when that was the assumption, yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 16:57
The challenge with statins is actually very controversial these days, and a lot of people are talking about how statins perhaps are not the right solution for high cholesterol, at the same time, what they’re talking about is also they’re saying that high cholesterol is not necessarily the problem causing plaque deposits in the arteries.

Bill Gasiamis 17:23
And the fact that there are plaque deposits in the arteries can only really be shown with the correct scan of those arteries, so imagine that your neurologists have consulted some cardiologists, and they’ve checked out your arteries to see whether or not, in fact, they are blocked up, or whether they are free-flowing, whether they have cholesterol deposits in there or not.

Norman Vandal 17:50
They do.

Bill Gasiamis 17:51
So, they do so, there tends to be a approach by the medical professionals that all people who experience a stroke because of an ischemic reason. So for like a blood clot of some prescription should go on a statin as a preventative A and for people who have plaque deposits, they should go on there to reduce the significance of the plaque deposits.

Bill Gasiamis 18:23
Now that is potentially and I’m not a doctor, so please nobody take my advice, but just think about my conversation, just as that a conversation, don’t do anything based on my discussion. So they have this very big umbrella for why a statin should be given, and some people receive it when they shouldn’t be taking the statin.

Bill Gasiamis 18:54
Especially when they haven’t got cholesterol deposits and their and potentially their their blood clot may have been caused by a a genetic condition that has a blood clot disorder associated to it, rather than a blockage or rather than cholesterol deposits, so that’s where the controversy kind of comes in.

Bill Gasiamis 19:24
Now, one of the things that doctors don’t say is that cholesterol can be resolved and sorted out, and so can the reduction of cholesterol deposits in the blood vessels by changing one’s diet and by removing certain inflammatory foods that create that are likely to support the creation of cholesterol deposits.

Bill Gasiamis 19:47
And as a result of that, making those changes and supporting yourself to decrease the cholesterol deposits in your blood vessels naturally, then in combination with a statin, then at some stage you should be able to get to the point where you no longer require a statin. So the challenge is not so much for people who are 75 years old or over.

Bill Gasiamis 20:16
It’s for people who are put on statins at the age of 40, because statins are also suspected by some to have to be contributing to down the road neurological diseases such as dementia and Alzheimer’s, because what apparently is the case, apparently, but I haven’t researched this enough, but this is just some stuff that I’ve read from time to time.

Bill Gasiamis 20:45
Is the cholesterol, the good cholesterol, which is, in fact, there is no such thing as bad and good cholesterol, but that’s just how they’ve labeled these types of cholesterols. The good cholesterol is what the brain needs to keep itself healthy.

Bill Gasiamis 21:03
It’s a fat and it uses that as a fuel source and energy, and depriving the body for 30 the brain for 30 years as a 40 year old of good cholesterol ends up causing neuro neurological problems down the road.

Norman Vandal 21:21
Yeah, like you said, maybe dementia or something, is there clinical evidence of this now?

Bill Gasiamis 21:28
Certainly is clinical evidence. Now one of the best places to start a to start being curious about the the way one should look at brain health, there’s a book by a doctor called Dr David Perlmutter, and I’ll have the links in the show notes. Dr David Perlmutter. It’s called Brain Brain, I’m just going to find it online.

Bill Gasiamis 22:06
And he’s a neurologist, board certified neurologist, and he has a clinic where he deals with people who have Alzheimer’s and dementia, and many many years ago, he wrote his first book, and it was about trying to show people how to go about decreasing the bad markers in their blood work and increasing the good markers in their blood work, and the book is called.

Norman Vandal 22:38
Predominantly dietary?

Bill Gasiamis 22:39
Is that all dietary. So none of this is my conversation with you about it is, none of this is designed to divert people away from the medical assistance that they are receiving, or their medication, or any of that stuff, because when there, when there isn’t another way out of this.

Bill Gasiamis 23:03
You don’t have another solution, cholesterol medication or or statins, is definitely supporting the patient from having a condition right now that is going to be dangerous to the health. So it’s really important that you know blood pressure medication, unless your blood pressure stabilizes and becomes normal by itself.

Bill Gasiamis 23:28
It’s important to have it, because it’s going to help you right now in the acute phase of high blood pressure, for that not to accelerate, become worse and then cause a brain hemorrhage or a heart attack. So there is a need for the medications.

Bill Gasiamis 23:43
Certainly, there is a need for medications, and they are proving to support people, stay healthier, live longer, avoid stroke, certainly. So the question is what can you do to support that process as well?

Norman Vandal 24:00
Well, I had these the goals of an A1C of 5.7 and right now I’m 5.1 so I’m no longer even close to being diabetic. I’ve lost 35 pounds. Excellent, excellent, great. I my my LDLC bad cholesterol is 39.

Bill Gasiamis 24:27
Excellent.

Norman Vandal 24:27
I’ve had to even ask the doctor if I’m alive, with a 50, I’ve never heard of anyone with a 39 cholesterol, and my blood pressure averages about 135 over 65.

Bill Gasiamis 24:41
Yeah, that’s so important, that’s great.

Norman Vandal 24:44
So I’m doing, I’m doing, you know, this, this is this both frightened me and and as a monkey on my back, as far as recurrence is concerned, you know.

Bill Gasiamis 24:57
Got you moving in the right direction.

Norman Vandal 24:59
Sure. Well, my children say to me, well, don’t you remember the doctor saying this? Don’t you remember this happening? And I and I say, No, I was lying in bed wondering if I was going to live the rest of my life like this. This was, this was traumatic and very frightening.

Bill Gasiamis 25:16
What I’d love to know Norman is, how did you lose 35 pounds? What changes did you make?

Norman Vandal 25:23
I’ll tell you why. Well, I changed my diet pretty radically. I was not I thought I always ate pretty well, but I did I ate too much, and I did eat too much of foods that I wouldn’t exactly call healthy, I wasn’t a fried food eater, you know, like to go to a chicken, you know, fried chicken, or get fried fish, fish and chips, or things like that.

Norman Vandal 25:51
But I did eat a fair amount of meat, and, you know, now I meat, but most of the meat that I eat, almost all of it, is venison, which is very healthy, very low and very healthy, you know. But the thing is, in my in my stay, I’m trying to stay chronological here and not and not forget anything that I wanted to say to you.

Norman Vandal 26:18
But the diagnosis that I got was, of course, like I said, an ischemic stroke from blockage that was in began in the basilar artery. And so at Fannie Allen it definitely was a boot camp.

Norman Vandal 26:34
One of the things that they made me do that was absolutely frightening was they would tie a belt around my waist and a rope dragging behind me, and put a 30 pound weight in a bag, and they would make me walk, this is when I started to have some control walking.

Norman Vandal 26:53
And had me walk around the circuit in in the hospital, in between these two lines on the floor, I had to walk as fast as I could, and it was just totally frightening, I mean, it’s a hard floor, you know, tile floor. And I thought ‘Man, I’m just gonna, you know, I’m gonna fall, for sure. And of course, the PT was next to me to catch me.

Norman Vandal 27:15
But I was doubtful that she could, she could do it if I really fell, you know, so that’s just one of, one of the things. And I am so fortunate being, and I’m a strong, a firm believer in doing this extreme activity right away, this physical activity, in this, I think, is so important, I know it was for me.

Bill Gasiamis 27:38
Do you still do physical activity?

Norman Vandal 27:41
I do. I still do walking on a treadmill and but I actually live in a very rural place, and I do a lot of things outside, and I am constantly moving constantly. I’m not a couch potato, or I don’t watch much much television, I don’t spend an inordinate amount of time on a computer. I’m always moving, I’m keeping that up, I’m doing that.

Norman Vandal 28:12
Now, there was a, there was a neurologist at Fannie Allen who came in to see me one evening, and he said ‘I want to talk to you about something, and I said ‘Sure. And he said, I’m going to draw a chart on a board, a graph, and he said ‘It’ll have a vertical axis and a horizontal axis.

Norman Vandal 28:33
And they said the vertical axes is percentage of use, from where you are to 100% use, and the horizontal axis is time. And he drew a curve on it and he said ‘This is a curve that most people see, and it was fairly steep in the beginning, then it leveled up, and it didn’t go up to 100% of use.

Norman Vandal 28:59
And then he said, from watching you, studying your stroke, seeing the way that you apply yourself, he drew a curve that was much steeper, meaning that I would get to use quicker, and that sort of heartened me, but I also sort of doubted it, because it was so much work just getting where I was.

Norman Vandal 29:22
And he explained that in the first six months, that was my prime window, but that recovery would be a year, that where I would see recovery, but it would slow down, and I was pretty heartened by that, and I thought about that curve a lot, because I’m, I’m really big in, in into visualizations.

Norman Vandal 29:46
If I can see things and turn them into narratives or or pictures, I’m able to understand them better, and so that that was important to me.

Bill Gasiamis 29:57
Let’s take a quick pause here, but we’ll be right back with Norman’s incredible recovery journey, shortly. Before we continue, I want to remind you about my book ‘The Unexpected way the stroke became the best thing that happened. This book is not just my memoir, it’s a practical guide for achieving post traumatic growth after stroke.

Bill Gasiamis 30:17
You’ll read stories of stroke survivors who, like Norman, turned their trauma into an opportunity for growth. You can find it on Amazon or by visiting recoveryafterstroke.com/book.

Norman Vandal 30:31
One night, I was lying in the bed, and a man came in a doctor, and he said Dr so and so I’m a psychologist. And I said, Well, I really no offense, but I said, I really don’t think i need a shrink right now, and he said ‘Oh no, no, no, I’m not here to shrink you, he said ‘I won’t do that, he said ‘I just want to tell you a couple things about stroke that I think will really help you.

Norman Vandal 30:59
And I said ‘Okay, that make that makes sense, you know? So he said, the first thing is you’re going to feel tired, and he said very tired, he said ‘More tired than you’ve ever felt in your life. He said that and, and it’s going to be a lot, you know? He said, You’re going to feel that, that tiredness a lot.

Norman Vandal 31:21
And then the second thing was something I was noticing, but I couldn’t quite understand. He said, You’re going to, you’re going to cry a lot, and I was surprised, and I thought, you know, he’s right, because I am, and I found that for a long time that was happening to me.

Norman Vandal 31:44
I was sort of feeling almost mood swings, you know, where I would just be, everything would be fine, I’d be happy going along, and some inconsequential thing would happen, and I would be in tears.

Bill Gasiamis 31:58
You know, or do what that was called?

Norman Vandal 32:01
No, is there a name for it?

Bill Gasiamis 32:03
Yeah, Pseudobulbar affect.

Norman Vandal 32:05
Pseudo-Bulba Ethic?

Bill Gasiamis 32:08
Pseudobulbar affect, affect.

Norman Vandal 32:09
Affect? okay, sure.

Bill Gasiamis 32:13
Pseudobulbar affect, and it’s a very common condition, and sometimes, instead of crying, it’s the uncontrollable laughing in inappropriate moments, and some people have reported being funerals and laughing when they’re not meant to be and then they’re having to excuse themselves and not be in the room or wherever they’re.

Norman Vandal 32:38
Is there a length of time that seems to persist or?

Bill Gasiamis 32:42
Well, for me, it was pretty extreme early on, for the first, say, two to three years, and then it started to settle down. But every once in a while, a little while ago, I did my book launch, and I was in front of a room presenting and talking about my experience with stroke, and it was a 45 minute entire presentation, the whole thing, 45 minutes from beginning to end.

Bill Gasiamis 33:14
I think I cried four times, and it was unexpected, and I couldn’t stop it from happening, I didn’t think it was going to happen, but there are some little triggers, and one of those triggers is the people in the room, a lot of them are family and friends and my close part of my close community.

Bill Gasiamis 33:35
And as a result of that, it was really difficult to be up there and try to get this presentation out, and I cried way more than I would have liked to, but somehow I got through it, and most days it’s not there anymore that whole unnecessary crying has gone and settled down.

Bill Gasiamis 33:57
Although I do cry more often watching movies than I ever have in my life, those types of things, and, of course, the children. When my kids, who are adults, you know, when we talk about something that’s really close or dear to us, or something moving, I previously, I would have been able to very much hide my emotions, whereas now.

Norman Vandal 34:26
Okay, what are you are comfortable with that affect?

Bill Gasiamis 34:31
Yeah, I’m comfortable with it now, and now I’m I’m comfortable with the fact that I cry actually, and I pretend it’s not happening, and then the kids all know what it’s about, and I’m just like, yeah, just crying again, guys, it’s all good. It doesn’t mean anything.

Bill Gasiamis 34:47
But it’s also good to have a cry and get it off my chest, or whatever it is, yeah, it feels like there’s kind of like a unspent amount of emotion that needs to be expressed and spent.

Norman Vandal 35:01
Obligation, a release, right? Well, you know, I tend to, one of the things that sets me off now is that I’ll be doing something and then I’ll think, you know, about where I was, and that brings me to tears, because I I just, I go right back there, you know, and I see, like, one of the things that I need to do.

Norman Vandal 35:25
And part of it I believe is because of this affect, and the way that it sort of makes me feel psychologically is, I’m very big on, like I said, on on imaging and on, on, you know, being able to think that way and one of the things that I need to do is I need to go back to Fannie Allen, the rehab center.

Norman Vandal 35:49
I need to walk in there, and I need to see that place again, and I need to feel whole. Do you know what I’m saying? I just need have that feeling, and I’m trying to build up the courage to do it, because it’s going to take some courage for me, and I know when I do, it’ll bring the tears, but that’s okay with me, and they’ll understand, but I have to go back there.

Norman Vandal 36:12
I have to close that circle, because it’s to it’s almost the only thing that will tell me where I was and where I am now, and to make that sort of memory connection. Now you asked about weight. Well, one of the things drugs that I was put on, aside from statins, and was Plavics, which is a blood thinner, and I was taking a fairly hefty dose, dose of Plavix.

Norman Vandal 36:43
I’m not I can’t remember exactly what the milligrams were, but within a short time, I started to have taste issues in my mouth, and it got worse, and it got to where I basically I couldn’t eat because everything tasted so terrible that food was completely unpalatable to me, and it was worrisome, and I would force myself to eat.

Norman Vandal 37:11
My son would tell me just how many calories I had to consume based on my height and and I kept trying, and I started reading labels and trying to do and I could not do it. And so I tried contacting the neurologist that I had up at UVM, and I went for two and a half weeks, and she never got back to me.

Norman Vandal 37:31
So I decided on my own that I had taken all of the medications before, with the exception of Plavix, and I made the decision on my own that Plavix was doing this. So I quit the Plavix. I was taking 81 milligrams of aspirin, two as a blood thinner.

Norman Vandal 37:51
But a short while after dropping Plavix, I was sitting on the sofa one day, and I started feeling very lightheaded and very weak, woozy, kind of, and thought something’s wrong. So right away, I called my son, and he was skiing over in the top of a mountain with his two girls, and he said ‘Dad, I’m I can’t get there for like, an hour and a half. So why don’t you call your neighbor, Bob?

Norman Vandal 38:21
I did, and Bob said ‘Yeah, I’ll take you right down. So I went to the ER room in a little hospital south of here in the town Randolph. It’s a very rural, you know, hospital, but it’s excellent. And they checked me in right away from the ER, put me in and ran tests and so on.

Norman Vandal 38:37
And I got a hospitalist doctor there who was just amazing, he was a kindred spirit, and his his attitude and his approach, and it was just reassuring, and he said ‘You know, your Magnesia did blood tests, and my magnesium count had tanked, and he said, you know, explain to me just how important magnesium was for all these functions, and I was deficient in other areas too.

Norman Vandal 39:07
And his explanation to me was, well, first of all, we’re going to put you on magnesium, and I had three IV units, big, units of magnesium, and I was so low. And then he said, at the same time your your symptoms are really like anorexia, because you’re not eating and you’re no longer hungry, you no longer want to eat.

Norman Vandal 39:30
And I said that ‘That’s true, and all the while the taste was getting better because I had stopped the Plavix, and I was in there for three days, and after three days, food was tasting better, and I was getting more, I was feeling a lot better physically.

Norman Vandal 39:53
I wasn’t getting that wooziness or anything. But I think that may have been primarily the magnesium, another thing.

Bill Gasiamis 40:00
And what happened with the with the blood thinner, though, did they put you on a different blood thinner?

Norman Vandal 40:07
No, I was supposed to take the Plavix, part of the protocol was for 60 days, and I quit taking it, like it probably 50 days, or and I stopped, and I didn’t go back. And by that point, I was seeing my cardiologist, and I had pretty much dismissed going back to that neurologist, but I did have a zoom interview with her zoom appointment, which is the the other time that I’ve done this.

Norman Vandal 40:37
Other than now. And it was a scheduled appointment, and we talked, and I told her how I was doing, and she said ‘Great. And then I said ‘You know, I have to tell you, you put me in the hospital. And she said ‘What do you what do you mean? And I said, Well, you never got back to me for two and a half weeks. Well, did you speak to my nurses? I said, several times.

Norman Vandal 40:59
I said, in fact, one got tired of me calling and was very rude to me. Which one was it? I said, Well, why don’t you go, go look at the portal, which is what I’ve been doing, and you’ll see, I said, I’m not going to, you know, sort of rat on somebody this way, you know, I mean, really. So she apologized and so on.

Norman Vandal 41:19
Which was, you know, okay, but still, this had done me some damage. So this was on a Thursday afternoon, on a Friday night, at 7:30 she called me and she said, this is Dr so and so. I won’t, I won’t use names, but, and I said ‘Oh, hello. And she said ‘Well, I need to inform you of something. And I said, What’s that?

Norman Vandal 41:42
She said, Well, you have a brain aneurysm. And I said, what really? And she said, Yes, you have a brain aneurysm, and I need to tell you about it, because it needs to be watched. She said, It’s very small. It’s one millimeter, but it should be should keep an eye on. And I said ‘Well, okay, thank you, I’m going to, going to see a neurologist down at Dartmouth.

Norman Vandal 42:07
I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of Dartmouth in New Hampshire Dartmouth College.

Bill Gasiamis 42:12
I have heard of Dartmouth, yeah.

Norman Vandal 42:14
It’s an excellent place, probably the best around, unless you want to go to Boston. So anyhow, that was the story there.

Norman Vandal 42:23
But I also, one of the things that I wanted to relate to you that was really devastating for me is I live in a very rural location, I lost my wife 11 years ago, and I live alone, and I’m outside all the time. I garden, I hunt, I fish, I’m just really active. But I’m active here, and what I, you probably would think, is a wilderness. So driving, having the ability to drive, is very important to me.

Norman Vandal 42:54
I had to ask friends and relatives, you know, son and daughter and to drive me everywhere and so everything became this conundrum of people are willing to help me, and that’s wonderful, but at the same time, it was hard to be in that position where I had to ask people for help continuously, and it was really just eroding. I mean, it was a worse feeling.

Norman Vandal 43:24
And so part of what I was doing in my physical therapy was trying to enable myself to have enough movement and control cognitively, I was okay, but to be able to drive a vehicle. And so I was going to an outpatient PT nearby, and the therapist said ‘Well, I was doing these things where I couldn’t, if I put my heel on the floor and my foot flat on the floor, I couldn’t pick up the front of my foot.

Norman Vandal 43:57
Couldn’t pick it up at all, you know, it was like paralyzed, and I gradually worked and worked and worked, and she told me something interesting, she said, I don’t know if there’s really clinical data to support this, but if you’re going to do that with your foot, you should do it with your left foot and your right foot, because she said, I believe that this coordination between the two, she’s just like walking.

Norman Vandal 44:21
You’re not going to walk with one leg, and I started doing that. So I would tap with, you know, with both feet, and I got and I could watch myself, I was very, very driven to be back now, to get my license again, I had to take two tests.

Norman Vandal 44:38
One was a cognitive test, and the other was a driving test, and it was very difficult to get these scheduled, but there’s only two people in the entire entire State of Vermont who do it. The first was up at Fanny Allen, and they were booked, and it would have been three months, and so I got one in in Rutland, Vermont, and but first I took the cognitive test.

Norman Vandal 45:03
And when I did, the therapist who who graded or scored me said ‘You’re testing as high as anyone with with complete normal cognition. Your cognition is perfect, and so then it meant the driving test. Well, I went to the driving test with my son who drove me there, and I drove with this young man. He was a therapist, and he was also a driving instructor.

Norman Vandal 45:29
And when I drove, he was more of an instructor than an observer, and he was very didactic, you know, like, well, you made that turn too slowly, you didn’t get off the highway fast enough, you slowed down too much. And of course, I’m trying, I hadn’t taken a driving test since I was 16 years old, you know, so.

Norman Vandal 45:54
But I thought that I did pretty well, aI had, in my own mind, I felt like I had achieved what I needed to achieve, and I was there. Well, when we met afterwards and went to his office, he said to me, he said ‘Well, I see nothing, no damage from the stroke that impairs your driving ability, however, you need more practice, and we need to meet again.

Norman Vandal 46:24
And I did the other part of that syndrome that you we talked about with laughing, I got angry. I got very angry, and I lost it, and I screamed at him and said ‘You’re victimizing me man, you know, you just, you’re hitting me with all of these little inconsequential things. And my son, who was in the room, just, was just horrified by my behavior.

Bill Gasiamis 46:54
You seem, right now, you seem like, you know that was ridiculous, what you were doing and how you were behaving, but right at the moment ‘Oh, you thought it was justified.

Norman Vandal 47:05
Well, my son said ‘Why did you do that, dad? And I said ‘Listen, sometimes a person has to do that. I said ‘Sometimes you have to stand up for yourself, and you have to do that. So I thought about it, and I gave it some thought, and my son was pretty angry with me for doing it and thought and I wish I’d known more about the condition.

Norman Vandal 47:25
Because I might have been able to explain to him that this is some of this is the stroke and some of it. I was genuinely disappointed and angry, so I wrote this young man, a letter afterwards, and I apologized. I said ‘You know, I’m really sorry for having done this, but I’d like you to understand how much driving means to me in my life and where I live and how I live.

Norman Vandal 47:47
So he told me to practice driving with my son, which I did, and I did some with my daughter and then I went back for the next appointment, which was about a month later, and we went out, and he was having the same thing, little tidbits of you didn’t do this bride, you didn’t look in that mirror long enough, and they were, none of them had anything to do with legality.

Norman Vandal 48:16
They were all the idiosyncrasies that he would like to see in his students, you know. And I’m taking what is going on here. So we get back, and he starts with this litany of what I did wrong, and I’m thinking he’s not going to pass me again. And I can’t lose it again, you know. So he then said ‘I’m going to pass you. And I said ‘Great, thank you.

Norman Vandal 48:41
And he said ‘But I need to say something else to you. And I said ‘Well, okay, go ahead. He said ‘You need to sell your house and move. And I just was, I had so such a difficult time not to lose it. The only thing I said to him was I said ‘Listen, if you knew where I lived and what I do and how I lived, and you knew how much that meant to me, you would not say this.

Norman Vandal 49:10
You know, I said I’m I’m aware of where I am life, but I do not appreciate you saying this to me. It , just disheartening.

Bill Gasiamis 49:20
That’s interesting, it’s a perception, it’s a conclusion that he jumps to based on other things that are probably not applicable to you. And then, most importantly, what he should have said was ‘Why don’t you get your license back, and at the same time, why don’t we book in another 10 booking another 10 driving lessons, just so I can get you up to speed a little further.

Bill Gasiamis 49:47
And then that way, you can both achieve the same outcome, you’ve got your license, he’s getting your skills back up to a standard that he thinks is more reasonable or acceptable. And then you both win, and that’s, I think that’s better, it’s better to teach a person to fish than to take them.

Norman Vandal 50:07
Exactly, well, he told me that he had looked up where I lived on Google Earth, and he said, I can see, you know, I looked up where you live, and my feeling was, who gave you the right to do that, you know, but I didn’t say anything because I’d learned my my lesson with the previous outburst, you know, yeah, but what I found is I was fully capable of driving, no problems.

Norman Vandal 50:33
The only issue that I had with driving is the tiredness, and I’m sure of a lot of other people were in my situation, so I had to be careful that I didn’t bite off a trip that was too long, you know, and at a time when I was too tired, and I did that, yeah, and now I would say in terms of the exhaustion and tiredness, I’m doing quite well.

Norman Vandal 50:58
I used to have to just stop in the afternoon and nap, or I don’t need to do that anymore. I’m feeling, you know, sort of revitalized and and overall, I feel really good. I have still have sciatic back pain, which I had beforehand, and it might be exacerbated a little bit more by the stroke.

Norman Vandal 51:22
And I think it’s because of the muscles that are being, you know, firing again, you know, because that’s a term they used all the time. Well, your arm is not firing, firing, and that was a visualization I could see too, you know.

Bill Gasiamis 51:38
So tell me about your your health and your life before stroke. So your stroke happened when you were 75. What was your, the years leading up to that stroke? Because at 75 I imagine most people have had a condition of some sort or another. What was your?

Norman Vandal 51:59
Well, I’d always had issues with high blood pressure, it’s a congenital, almost, I think genetic thing, always. I mean, even when I was young and alive and rugged and active and athletic and everything, I still had trouble with high blood pressure. Yeah, always that I was very active for a long time.

Norman Vandal 52:22
Did a lot of skiing and skiing in the woods and hunting and gardening and, you know, fly fishing and stuff. And I think that the trauma of losing my wife had an effect on me Negative effect, I like food, I love to eat, I like to cook, and I was overweight, and I knew I was overweight, and I would try a little bit to try to lose some weight, but I never, I sort of didn’t take it, what’s the word?

Norman Vandal 52:57
I wasn’t I didn’t see it as a serious issue, when really it was, I had had a heart catheterization once because of a snafu and a stress test, and the hospitalist doctor told me I was going to have a coronary, and I had to have a quadruple bypass, and he was sending me to Dartmouth for catheterization.

Norman Vandal 53:24
When I went to Dartmouth, the cardiologist said ‘Well, you know, if you had done this press test here, you wouldn’t be doing this. It’s because they flagged you that we have to they did do catheterization, and I had some blockage, but nothing serious, and I didn’t need any kind of a stent or or anything like that. So I guess I took that as a good sign, that I was doing okay.

Norman Vandal 53:50
I fully expected to maybe have a stent, but maybe not quadruple bypass. So I sort of some people I wasn’t I had a pretty good gut on me, I wasn’t obese, but I was 30-35, pounds overweight. I carried it pretty well, I was still active.,I felt well enough.

Bill Gasiamis 54:18
Other than your extracurricular activities, yeah, did you do as an occupation?

Norman Vandal 54:24
Well, I did a number of different things, and early on, I built houses, and then I became a cabinet maker, and then a writer. I wrote about period technologies and woodworking furniture. And then I decided that part of my life was not as interesting as what I might go to when I started teaching high school English.

Norman Vandal 54:49
I had a degree in English and literature and a minor in education, and my daughter went to a very liberal, very progressive school here, and I thought ‘Well, that’s a school I could teach in without getting fired. And so I applied for a job there and did some subbing, and I got that so then I taught for 20 years, but during that time, I still was pretty active.

Bill Gasiamis 55:18
So you’re 75 at the time of your stroke that was about a year ago, almost, and you’re six months. Yeah, you’re a similar age to my parents, my mom would be 78 my dad is 82 you you’re of that generation. When my generation speaks about your generation, we talk about how tough your generation is and that they don’t make generations like you guys anymore.

Bill Gasiamis 55:47
Also the generation before you was seriously tough, your parents would have been extremely tough because they would have lived through World War One and World War Two, amongst other things.

Norman Vandal 56:01
Not one, but two.

Bill Gasiamis 56:03
Okay, yep, not one, and then there would have been a discussion about, then there would have been a discussion about the fact that your generation doesn’t seek out psychological counseling and talk therapies and that kind of stuff.

Bill Gasiamis 56:21
So it was interesting when the psychologist came to you, and the first thing that you thought was, I don’t need to see a shrink right now, which is exactly what I would have expected you to say.

Bill Gasiamis 56:33
But how did you go about dealing with your the loss of your wife, and then finding yourself kind of alone in the world. And when I say alone in the world, clearly, you’re not alone, you have amazing family around you, but alone as in, you know, the significant other aspect of your life. How did you find yourself dealing with that?

Norman Vandal 56:57
Well, it was difficult. There’s no, question, and it was a hell of a loss, and she had esophageal cancer, and it was, you know, series of surgeries and so on, and she died at home in hospice, and which was a good thing, but I was home alone with her through most of the bout, my children, actually one.

Norman Vandal 57:22
My son was living in Seattle, working in the wind industry, and my daughter was in Boulder, and her husband was getting a master’s in psychology and and they came home, but still, the entire process, the entire time I was dealing with her suffering and alone, and it was consuming, It just completely consuming, and really, what’s the word? Just profound. You know, very profound.

Norman Vandal 57:59
And and when it, when she did die, I basically went to bed and slept for hours because I was so completely exhausted, and then after, then it’s been hard, but it’s, you know, it’s, I wish I could remember the phrase that Joe Biden uses all the time when he talks about grief, because he’s quite an expert in it. He’s had enough tragedy in his life, you know, right? But, what he says is true.

Norman Vandal 58:30
You know that what used to, you know, put a tear in my eye, and I now can put a smile on my face, but it was hard because I did a lot with my wife, and it was a loss. I’m pretty used to living alone, I live very remotely, my nearest neighbor is over a mile away, I’m up 18 hundred and 50 feet in the mountain.

Norman Vandal 58:53
So my life is, even though it’s sort of immersed in nature, it’s still relatively intense, and just just being involved in that was kind of a support that I needed.

Bill Gasiamis 59:04
Yeah, your description was that you went to bed and you slept for a very long time, yeah, and you were completely exhausted. You know, some people would say that depression has that symptom, that particular behavioral pattern, did you feel like now reflecting on that, that perhaps that you were a little depressed?

Norman Vandal 59:30
No, I don’t. I don’t believe I was, and I’ve dealt with enough with students over the years to have a pretty decent handle on, being able to observe or pick out depression and no, I don’t.

Norman Vandal 59:45
I was more just completely exhausted, both physically and emotionally, I just didn’t, I’d given so much I didn’t. I just needed to get away from it, you know, with a just rest

Bill Gasiamis 1:00:00
The tapping, the tapping.

Norman Vandal 1:00:02
Oh, I’m doing that again now. Yeah, okay.

Bill Gasiamis 1:00:06
So, yeah. So what you’re saying is your response was appropriate to the particular situation that you had yourself in.

Norman Vandal 1:00:15
I think. So, yeah, and, you know, it was an interesting process because, and it still is, because I could, I could see how everyone deals with grief differently. I can see that my son and my daughter deal with the grief and the loss differently, I think that in a lot of ways, it’s had an effect on me, there’s no question, a cumulative effect.

Norman Vandal 1:00:47
I believe, I’m relatively happy, I mean, I like my life and, I haven’t really put any effort into finding a mate. I do have female friends who are good friends, but I haven’t really felt the need for that. I’m quite adjusted to being alone and to into being quiet.

Bill Gasiamis 1:01:14
And you spend time in the community, though, it sounds like you’re not doing it completely alone, you’re not a hermit. There must be times where you involve yourself with the community. Tell me a little bit about those other things that you do, other than your home life.

Norman Vandal 1:01:34
Well, I don’t do a whole lot, and I’ll tell you, because this is a very rural place, I mean, this town only has about 500 people, it’s very, very small, I have friends that I see and do things with, go out to dinner and, work on projects together, help each other to do things and so on.

Norman Vandal 1:01:59
I have involvement with other people, and I have plenty of friends that if I felt lonely, or I would say, I say sometimes I feel lonesome, but I don’t feel lonely, I don’t. I’m not a lonely person, but I can feel lonesome, and when I do, I try to reach out to people, and the people who’ve helped me during the stroke, it just astonishes me, It’s humbling. I mean, I can’t, people offering me, and it’s gets overwhelming, really.

Bill Gasiamis 1:02:37
One of the best things, isn’t it? It’s such a thing, a very common thing that gets reported by stroke survivors is the people that come out of nowhere and offer their support in any way that they can, and it makes it such a big difference to somebody’s recovery and how they go about navigating the months after stroke. You know, it’s really interesting.

Norman Vandal 1:02:59
Prior to to coming home, I spent after Fanny Allen rehab, I spent two and a half weeks living with my son, and he has three girls, three daughters, and Georgia is 9, and Willa is 7, and Elsie was not quite 2 at the time. And it was, it’s just another situation where, if I think back about the disabilities that I had at the time, it’s just, it’s just really overwhelming.

Norman Vandal 1:03:31
I could watch my granddaughter, Elsie, who was not quite two. I could watch her learn, learn things, to do physical things in their body, and learn, sort of intellectually, and it was so parallel to me. It was just such a such an incredible observation of feeling that I had, I could see and I would think of myself as being in that position again, childlike.

Bill Gasiamis 1:04:04
Childlike.

Norman Vandal 1:04:05
Yeah, childlike in both the eagerness to learn, but also in the inability to do what I wanted to do, and I could see her frustration in her learning, and the other thing I could see is her learning by repetition, which is exactly what I had to do. I remember one day I watched her get up from the floor.

Norman Vandal 1:04:27
Then a physical therapist came, and I said to her, I said ‘Do you think I could get up from the floor? She said ‘We’ll do it. So I laid down on on the floor, got down as best I could, and I tried getting up, and I put a hand on the table and put and I was able to pull myself up, and it was just mind bending for me, it was like I could have it was a gold medal, you know.

Norman Vandal 1:04:52
I mean, I was just blown away by the fact that I could do this and I got to where as much I have to say that this stroke has taught me so much about myself, about other people. Now I do things like I’m doing I do 99% of what I’ve ever done. But it isn’t easy, and there are times like I’ve been working on a tractor recently, and I have to reach in and turn, put a nut on a bolt.

Norman Vandal 1:05:27
And my hand has not been taught to do that yet, and so I reach in and I grab this nut I can, I’m fumbling, and I’m trying to hold him and it drops, and try to pick it up. And I do and and I try again, and the weird thing is, I can feel the connection between my brain and my hand. I can just do, you know, did you get that feeling?

Bill Gasiamis 1:05:51
I do know exactly what you mean. So I have a unreal I have a very deep understanding of either the lack of connection or the connection, because depending on the day, sometimes the connection operates better and sometimes it operates less.

Bill Gasiamis 1:06:08
Especially for me, it’s in walking more than anything. So I noticed that on a day where things are not going as well, it’s like the connection’s not there, and the and the way to restore the connection, in a way, is to stamp my foot on the ground and just to let the brain know this is what you are looking for, get onto it.

Norman Vandal 1:06:29
Did you find that anger helped? Like sometimes I say, damn it, I’m gonna do this. You were done, you know what I get?

Bill Gasiamis 1:06:38
That’s most of more determination, right? Writ and determination.

Norman Vandal 1:06:47
I was working with a PT one day, and she was making me take a ball in my right hand and throw it at this trampoline that had was on a slope, and so the ball would bounce, bounce back to me. And she said ‘Well, throw it with your right and catch it with your left. And I just could barely do it.

Norman Vandal 1:07:06
I mean, I was throwing just so ungain, you know, awful. And I said to her, I said ‘Do you mind if I get angry? And she said ‘No, go ahead. And I went, you son of a bee, and I really started cussing and getting right, and I threw that ball perfectly, and you know what I did? I caught it with my right hand.

Norman Vandal 1:07:27
I was blown away, and I thought, why this is contributing, like you say, it’s determination, but it’s also that when I would do that, I would feel that brain connection more, and I have to say that’s a wonderful thing. It really is a wonderful thing, despite the stroke and all that.

Bill Gasiamis 1:07:47
It’s a correctly channeled aggression, perhaps, right? It’s kind of channeled, yeah, and it’s a rather see, I’ve seen people who have done what you’re saying, but in a negative way, in that right? They are being negative and aggressive to themselves and beating themselves up about the fact that their arm is not working, etc.

Bill Gasiamis 1:08:09
So I’ve seen that part of it, but the part that you’re talking about is more appropriately channeled, and then, therefore you use it to help you and support you in you get a result out of it, and that’s good.

Norman Vandal 1:08:23
I do.

Bill Gasiamis 1:08:24
And observe that, I was going to ask a little earlier, what’s the hardest thing about stroke?

Norman Vandal 1:08:32
I think the heart the hardest thing for me has been and maybe it’s because I do live alone, but it’s been my loss of independence, from from the beginning. Now I’m almost completely, independent. Now that was really difficult for me, because I was always a really independent person, but both, sort of in my habits and in the way that I live.

Norman Vandal 1:09:05
But even in the way that I think, and I’ve always been very focused on accomplishments, but not, not I’m not talking about being any sort of a hero or but it matters to me that I’m able to do things and get them done, you know. And there are things that I enjoy. I enjoy working, I always think about the shakers who say, was it mind to hands and heart to God, like feeling that.

Norman Vandal 1:09:37
And that was really hard for me to lose that independence and to get it back now. And the only thing now that that I have, like I said before, is this monkey on my back and the possibility of a recurrence. I’m doing everything that I possibly can to avoid that, and still, I know there’s a chance. So now, when I went to visit the neurologist, my new neurologist at Dartmouth.

Norman Vandal 1:10:05
I met with him, and he asked me, you know, how I was doing and what my tests were, and so what my numbers were. And it was the first time I’d met with him, and he said ‘Well, tell me about your stroke. And I said ‘Well, I had blockage in my basilar artery, and it contributed in Orange County.

Norman Vandal 1:10:24
He said ‘No, no. He almost laughed. He said ‘The basal artery doesn’t feed that part of the brain. So now I’m thinking ‘What is going on here? You know? He said ‘It doesn’t feed that part of the brain. And he said the basilar artery was not involved in your stroke, at the time, I understood that, he told me I’d had a bleed, which was hemorrhagic, which was completely different.

Norman Vandal 1:10:56
And so I contacted him recently, and I said ‘Listen, I’m really unclear about this. It was so shocking to me that I wasn’t asking the right questions. I was just it would just hit me like what went on. So he wrote back and said, well, first thing he told me, he said ‘I can’t tell you to do more than you’re doing, because your progress and your numbers and, your weight loss.

Norman Vandal 1:11:21
Everything is exactly what you should do. It’s what I would tell you to do when you’re doing it already, and then I said ‘Well, what about this brain aneurysm? And he laughed. He said ‘A one millimeter brain aneurysm and a 75 year old man. He said ‘that’s so small, it’s well within the realm of misdiagnosis.

Norman Vandal 1:11:46
He said ‘In your lifetime that one millimeter brain aneurysm is not going to grow and rupture. He said, If you were a 45 year old man, I would treat it differently, but he said ‘I can’t even tell you that it exists. He said ‘So do not worry about it. It’s not there. He said, just don’t, it’s not going to happen, which was good.

Norman Vandal 1:12:10
So recently, I was thinking about ‘Well, okay, well, if this was ischemic, ischemic, then I’m, I’m dealing with plaque, you know, I’m dealing with that blockage, but if it’s hemorrhagic, I’m dealing with a separate set of circumstances, but I thought, well, but the protocol, I think, is the same, right?

Bill Gasiamis 1:12:32
Yeah, blood pressure needs to come down and under control. Blood Vessels need to be clear and operating and allowing blood to flow without any plaques, so that you’re you’re on all the right protocols. There’s no other thing that you might be doing, however, it might be good to see if you can get some clarity on what type of stroke it was.

Bill Gasiamis 1:12:56
Perhaps your neurologist can read the reports from back in the day and find out what exactly happened, because that first neurologist seems to have given you maybe only half the story, or not the full story. There seems to be, certainly some communication breakdown with that first neurologist. Something’s not right there.

Norman Vandal 1:13:19
Yeah, yeah. It makes me feel like, do I need a third opinion?

Bill Gasiamis 1:13:23
I would say, yes, you know, why not? I mean, I did that. I did that a number of times. I went to see a lot of doctors, my scans were viewed by a neurologist in Greece who happens to be my cousin, who was never going to treat me. Then there was another doctor who I saw in one particular hospital for the first incident, and then I left that hospital and took myself to another hospital where I had another opinion.

Bill Gasiamis 1:13:50
So sure absolutely, the more information you have, the better you are, and if you can reduce the anxiety in your mind, in the back of your mind, about what actually went wrong, and how am I tackling this? Then I think it’s very valuable to get another opinion. And doctors all are used to patients getting second opinions, and I don’t think anyone’s going to be offended by that.

Norman Vandal 1:14:14
No, and I don’t worry about doing that. I’m not concerned about it. I’m a pretty good advocate for my own health. He wrote me when I said tell me, I’m really unclear. You know, I remember you saying it was a bleed. So he wrote to me, and he said ‘I never said it was a bleed. And I thought, Well, gee, I think I heard that.

Norman Vandal 1:14:39
But here again, maybe it’s the stroke, and I don’t know, but he said to me ‘I had a left putamental and corona radiata in fraction due to penetrating artery disease.

Bill Gasiamis 1:14:56
Okay.

Norman Vandal 1:14:58
Okay, chew on that one.

Bill Gasiamis 1:15:02
Penetrating artery, disease.

Norman Vandal 1:15:10
Putamental and corona radiata infarction and then he said, You have asymptomatic stenosis of cervical right ICA and basilar artery.

Bill Gasiamis 1:15:26
Okay.

Norman Vandal 1:15:27
I think is telling me that I do have some blockage in the facial art.

Bill Gasiamis 1:15:31
Yes, okay, so it sounds like they’re all. Sounds like you’re on the right track as far as your protocols, everything that you’re doing, exactly what they’re saying. It sounds like somebody is aware of exactly what’s going on, and that thing that you said about yourself is perhaps the stroke is causing you to misunderstand or hear things or imagine things that weren’t said.

Bill Gasiamis 1:15:52
Yeah, that’s a very interesting observation as well, to keep in mind and to be aware of, and it’s great that that you tested him on the fact that you thought that he said you had a hemorrhagic stroke, and he corrected you and said ‘No, you didn’t. And I never said that. That’s good too. I mean, those are conversations you need to have, that’s how things get cleared up.

Norman Vandal 1:16:16
Yeah, and that third opinion you’re you would advocate for.

Bill Gasiamis 1:16:20
Absolutely yeah.

Norman Vandal 1:16:23
I think, I’m gonna pursue that. So now you were saying about how sometimes your progress seems to the good days and bad days, I guess is a way of saying it, and, you know, I find that when I’m tired and this is one thing, if I could ask your audience a question, this would be one of them ‘When you’re tired, when I’m tired, it seems to go south.

Bill Gasiamis 1:16:52
Yes.

Norman Vandal 1:16:52
It just seems to be, it moves backwards, you know, and, and I’ll find that I have a little bit of wiggle in my foot, my leg doesn’t feel quite as strong, my arm is a little bit more shaky and and is that something that you have felt? And how long does that last?

Bill Gasiamis 1:17:14
Yeah, so for me, if I have a bad night’s sleep, or if I had a couple of big days where I didn’t rest enough or did too much, then what happens is the deficits increase and get worse, and I notice them more, and then it settles down when I want to go back into a proper sleeping routine, for example.

Bill Gasiamis 1:17:35
And then things settle down, and I notice it less, so it may not be a deterioration, or that you’re going backwards. Well, in your case, you’re not going backwards, or what it is is perhaps the inflammation that occurred that impacted your brain in a negative way is just kind of rearing its ugly head and letting you know that you’re you’re still not 100% and you need to pay attention to your symptoms.

Bill Gasiamis 1:18:02
And then you need to rest more, perhaps, or you need to alter your diet, or you need to do a little less physical activity. You’ll know what it is that kind of sets you off down that path of not feeling so great, and then you can just ease back on that.

Norman Vandal 1:18:08
You know, I’m trying to, I’m very big on letting my body speak to me, trying to read that. There are days when I feel a little bit woozy, it looks slightly dizzy. A weird thing that happens too, is that I wear reading glasses, I’m wearing them now, and they’re basically what I call drugstore glasses.

Norman Vandal 1:18:40
They’re magnifiers, you know, and if I happen to be working with the glasses on, and then I start to, I stand up or whatever, and I walk a few paces, I get so dizzy, so quickly, it has that effect. And that’s all, it’s a standard reaction anyhow, but it’s so much hyper, so much greater now than it ever has been.

Bill Gasiamis 1:19:07
I had a very long time where my brain was playing games, you know, in tricks on me, where I felt like I was in another plane, in another dimension. I was having these weird kind of out of body experiences, and I would take a little bit of time to kind of reset and go back to baseline, and it was happening just on a normal day. I wouldn’t think that anything had changed or anything was different.

Bill Gasiamis 1:19:36
Then all of a sudden, I’d be feeling spaced out or lightheaded, and I need to rest and sit down. It’s not uncommon that there’s still stuff settling down in there, and this stuff moving and changing. So it’s not uncommon, the important thing is, to for you to be certain that your lightheadedness or the conditions that you notice.

Bill Gasiamis 1:19:59
Not say, a sudden drop in blood pressure too low or a high or a response to something else, that’s kind of the only thing you need to be aware of, and I would make this type of information known to your medical professionals that look after you and let them know.

Norman Vandal 1:20:06
I told him about this feeling of dizziness and lightheadedness sometimes, and he said his explanation was. He said ‘Well, you know you’ve dropped 30 to 35 pounds. You’ve lowered your blood pressure substantially. Your A1C is lower, you’re getting used to functioning with less highs and lows of glucose, and he said ‘You’ve had a stroke.

Norman Vandal 1:20:48
And I also have stenosis in my aortic valve, which has not changed in years. It’s not symptomatic at all, and there’s no it’s very moderate, and he said ‘But you know, it could be that stenosis, under the circumstances, is causing you to feel lightheaded. So, I am trying to observe like I said ‘Let my Body Talk to me, to so that I can sort of feel it out, you know.

Norman Vandal 1:21:19
I can figure out the scenario or the triggers or what it is that causes it, and just having to do those things is both, it’s a blessing in a way, honestly, I really feel like it’s teaching me about my body and my brain and the way it functions.

Bill Gasiamis 1:21:43
Yeah, you touched on all the things that you learned from stroke earlier that you’re learning so much, and what’s the, what’s something that you’ve learned about stroke that’s really had a profound impact? What’s something that, okay, let me rephrase it. What’s something that stroke has taught you?

Norman Vandal 1:22:02
Something that what?

Bill Gasiamis 1:22:03
Stroke has taught you?

Norman Vandal 1:22:07
Well, in sort of, you know.

Bill Gasiamis 1:22:13
Philosophical kind of way.

Norman Vandal 1:22:15
Philosophical sense, it’s taught me a lot about fragility, I mean, I’m 75 years old and and I do not feel like an old man, I don’t. And I always my entire life, I’ve said I’m never going to walk like an old man. I’m not going to let myself walk like an old man. And I see friends of mine who are my age, and they’re walking like old men.

Norman Vandal 1:22:45
I don’t even with the stroke suffering, I don’t, and I’m proud of that. But at the same time, what it’s done is it’s taught me about this fragility and of life, and I’m sure it would have learned some of that also from just my age, but I’m aware and the monkeys on my back, and I know something’s going to get me.

Norman Vandal 1:23:12
I’d rather it not be a stroke and have to put my family under a lot of stress, and being capacitated that way. So I guess most of what it’s taught me is, but I don’t want to make it sound like it’s entirely negative. These are negative things that I’ve learned, but the positive things that I’ve learned too, I’ve learned about what inner strength I have to be able to do this.

Norman Vandal 1:23:43
I’ve learned about fear. I’ve learned about sorrow, I’ve been able to experience my body in ways I’ve never been able to do before, and I think it’s wonderful. I think a lot about the brain, and I never have before how the brain is wonderful and how it functions, and you know what, what it needs, and so on.

Norman Vandal 1:24:13
So, it’s been a learning experience for me in many regards, and I just hope that that’s true for a lot of people. That’s a common feeling, because I and, like I said ‘You know, I’ve recovered to the point of where most people watch me and they say, I can’t tell you how to stroke, and they say to myself, you can’t, but I can.

Bill Gasiamis 1:24:42
Yeah, compliment to you, but they’ll never what it’s like to be you, because they’ve never so we don’t want them to know anyway.

Norman Vandal 1:24:50
I’m not insulted by it or anything.

Bill Gasiamis 1:24:52
No, yeah.

Norman Vandal 1:24:53
yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 1:24:54
It’s better that they don’t know. As we wrap up, I’d like to ask you, to see if you can impart some wisdom on our listeners. There’s people that are listening that are your age, my age younger, going through something similar. What would you like to say to them?

Norman Vandal 1:25:13
Yeah, I’ve thought about this a bit. I think the main thing is something I’ve already touched on. Well, to preface it, I don’t really consider that the stroke that I had is as devastating as what a lot of people have. And I’m fortunate for that, for sure, and I know that the specter of having that as a possibility is there, but it wasn’t.

Norman Vandal 1:25:42
But I would say to people that I think that people need to get, people need to find a place where they can basically see the goodness in this too. You know what I’m saying, that it has, it has so many sort of side benefits that you’re not aware of before.

Norman Vandal 1:26:11
Like, how important friends are and family and the support that you get, and how important it is to learn to focus more on your body, and to learn more about your body and to know how to manage hope and fear. And because I sat in a bed thinking I and like I say, I wasn’t as bad as a lot of people condition, but I thought many times, I don’t want to live like this, you know.

Norman Vandal 1:26:40
This isn’t how I want to end my life. We have a Death with Dignity law here in Vermont, and I thought many times about how in order to to put that in place, you have to have cognition. You have to know what you’re doing. And I would think ‘Gee, I hope I don’t lose that, because if I have to make that decision, I want to know what I’m doing.

Norman Vandal 1:27:04
I’m not there, you know for sure, and I wasn’t there, and I didn’t go there. But it is an option for us here, but I think a lot of people find themselves in a situation where they can’t make that choice, but I’m I can, I can smile about about this, you know, I’ve been able, and smiling feels pretty good.

Norman Vandal 1:27:30
I can smile about it now, I hope that it doesn’t happen to me again. I’m going to do every, everything in my power to make sure that it doesn’t.

Bill Gasiamis 1:27:43
So silver linings. There’s some silver linings there.

Norman Vandal 1:27:46
Silver linings, exactly, yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 1:27:47
It’s a good thing to be aware of and to say, seek them out so to speak and to understand. And hey, Norman, I really appreciate you reaching out and being on the podcast.

Bill Gasiamis 1:27:57
It’s really great to have you on who had a great conversation and I am sure, as you requested in your email, that you sent me, I am sure that is going to make a difference in other people’s lives, and it will be very interesting to hear your story.

Norman Vandal 1:28:16
When I listen to your podcast, for me, what it was, it just became this ability to have, in a way, have my own conversations while your podcast was going on, and to hear from other people and their experiences and find that commonality, be just to be able to feel like I’m not alone, I need this, and I suspect that’s one of the main reasons why you’ve done what you’ve done.

Norman Vandal 1:28:43
But I really, truly appreciate it. I do, it’s a great thing that you’ve done, and hope you keep, hope you keep doing it, because people aren’t going to stop having strokes, unfortunately.

Bill Gasiamis 1:29:01
Unfortunately, not. I certainly am. Thank you so much for being on the podcast.

Norman Vandal 1:29:05
Well, if you ever find yourself in Vermont in the States, you come and you’re welcome to stay here and I’ll show you some beautiful country.

Bill Gasiamis 1:29:14
I’ll look forward to it one day, you never know what happens.

Norman Vandal 1:29:17
Never know exactly, never know.

Bill Gasiamis 1:29:19
You never know. Thank you for the for the invitation. Okay, all the best. Thank you so much.

Norman Vandal 1:29:25
Yep, thank you.

Bill Gasiamis 1:29:27
Well, that brings us to the end of another episode. I hope that Norman Vandal’s journey of surviving a basilar artery stroke inspired you as much as it has inspired me his determination to overcome the physical and emotional challenges of stroke recovery, and his insights into rehabilitation and life after stroke are truly remarkable.

Bill Gasiamis 1:29:49
Thank you to everyone who has already left a review. It helps others find the show and provides much-needed encouragement to stroke survivors. If you haven’t. Already, please consider leaving a five star review and sharing your thoughts on iTunes and Spotify, and for those watching on YouTube, remember to Like comment and subscribe to stay updated on future episodes.

Bill Gasiamis 1:30:15
If you’d like to further support the podcast, you can do so by subscribing to our Patreon page at patreon.com/recoveryafterstroke, every contribution helps bring more stories like Normans to people who need hope and advice on their stroke recovery journey.

Bill Gasiamis 1:30:32
Finally, if you’re a stroke survivor with a story to share, I’d love to hear from you. My interviews are relaxed and unscripted. Just come as you are, and if you have a product or a service related to stroke recovery, consider sponsoring an episode of the show, visit recoveryafterstroke.com/contact, to get in touch. Thanks again for joining me today. I look forward to seeing you in the next episode.

Intro 1:30:56
If you’ve had a stroke and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be. You’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind, like, how long will it take to recover? Will I actually recover? What things should I avoid in case I make matters worse? Doctors will explain things, but obviously, you’ve never had a stroke before.

Intro 1:31:17
You probably don’t know what questions to ask, if this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying and head to recoveryafterstroke.com. Where you can download a guide that will help you, it’s called ‘Seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke.

Intro 1:31:40
These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke. They’ll not only help you better understand your condition, they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery. Head to the website now recoveryafterstroke.com and download the guide. It’s free.

The post Surviving and Recovering from a Basilar Artery Stroke: Norman Vandal’s Story appeared first on Recovery After Stroke.

Life after a stroke often presents a new reality for survivors, marked by physical, emotional, and cognitive challenges. Whether it’s adjusting to physical deficits, such as impaired mobility or speech difficulties, or navigating the emotional toll of such a life-altering event, the journey of recovery can feel overwhelming. However, with determination, support, and the right approach to rehabilitation, many stroke survivors find ways to regain independence and even discover new strengths.

In this post, we explore the common challenges faced in life after a stroke and offer guidance on how survivors can navigate their recovery while embracing hope and resilience.

A stroke occurs when the blood supply to part of the brain is interrupted or reduced, depriving brain tissue of oxygen. This can lead to significant damage, often resulting in long-term disabilities. The immediate symptoms may vary depending on the type and severity of the stroke, but common issues include paralysis on one side of the body, difficulties with speech, vision problems, and loss of balance or coordination.

The early days following a stroke can be critical for recovery, and immediate medical intervention plays a key role in minimizing the extent of damage. However, the challenges don’t end once the initial medical emergency has passed. For many survivors, the true work begins in rehabilitation and adjusting to life after a stroke.

One of the most challenging aspects of life after stroke is dealing with physical deficits. Many survivors experience some form of paralysis or reduced function, particularly on one side of the body. This can affect the ability to walk, use the arms and hands, or perform daily tasks like dressing or eating.

Physical therapy is often a cornerstone of stroke recovery, helping survivors regain mobility and function. Regular, targeted exercises can improve muscle strength, flexibility, and coordination, while adaptive tools such as walkers or special utensils can make daily life easier.

Progress may be slow, but every small achievement—whether it’s walking independently or regaining the ability to perform a once-routine task—can be a huge milestone in the journey toward recovery.

In addition to physical challenges, cognitive deficits such as memory problems, difficulty concentrating, or trouble with problem-solving are common after stroke. Survivors may also struggle with aphasia, a condition that affects the ability to speak or understand language.

To cope with these challenges, speech therapy and cognitive rehabilitation are essential components of post-stroke care. These therapies aim to retrain the brain to improve communication and thinking skills, helping survivors rebuild their confidence in daily interactions and regain a sense of normalcy.

Emotionally, the experience of a stroke can be overwhelming. Feelings of frustration, sadness, or anger are natural as survivors adjust to a new way of living. In some cases, post-stroke depression may develop. Seeking support from mental health professionals, stroke support groups, or loved ones can make a significant difference in managing the emotional burden of stroke recovery.

Adapting to life after stroke often means embracing a new normal. Daily activities that were once taken for granted may now require more effort or modifications. It’s common for survivors to feel a sense of loss regarding their previous level of independence. However, many stroke survivors discover that adapting to their new reality can lead to unexpected growth and resilience.

Setting realistic goals is a crucial part of recovery. While full recovery may not always be possible, survivors can focus on small, incremental gains that bring a sense of achievement and progress. With the right mindset, challenges can become opportunities for growth.

Recovery from a stroke is rarely a solo journey. The support of family, friends, caregivers, and healthcare professionals is invaluable in helping survivors navigate the ups and downs of recovery. Encouragement from loved ones can provide the emotional fuel needed to stay motivated, while healthcare professionals offer the necessary expertise to guide rehabilitation.

In many cases, connecting with other stroke survivors through support groups or online communities can provide a sense of camaraderie. Knowing that others have faced similar challenges and made progress can be a powerful source of hope.

Preventing another stroke is a primary concern for many survivors. After the first stroke, individuals are at a higher risk for future events, especially if underlying conditions such as high blood pressure, diabetes, or heart disease are not well-managed.

Lifestyle changes play a critical role in long-term recovery and stroke prevention. Eating a heart-healthy diet, engaging in regular physical activity, managing stress, and following prescribed medication regimens are all essential steps in maintaining health and reducing the risk of another stroke.

By staying proactive and prioritizing health, survivors can take control of their well-being and reduce their chances of experiencing another stroke in the future.

While life after a stroke may look different, it doesn’t mean the journey ahead is without possibility. Stroke recovery is often a marathon rather than a sprint, requiring patience, persistence, and adaptability. Each small victory, whether it’s physical, cognitive, or emotional, is a testament to the resilience of the human spirit.

For stroke survivors, recovery is not just about regaining what was lost but also about discovering new ways to live a fulfilling life. With a supportive community, the right therapeutic interventions, and a mindset focused on growth, many survivors find that life after a stroke is a new chapter filled with hope, strength, and the potential for continued progress

Stroke recovery is a long journey, but with determination, it’s possible to turn disability into ability. Learn how Polo Gomez is overcoming stroke deficits.

Polo’s Instagram
Support The Recovery After Stroke Patreon Page

Highlights:

00:00 Introduction
02:14 Symptoms And Initial Reactions
05:27 Stroke Caused By High Blood Pressure
11:31 Life After Stroke And Impact on Work and Family Life
17:39 Lifestyle Changes and Personal Growth
24:34 Back To Driving After A Stroke
34:26 Embracing The New Version Of You
41:17 Being Part Of A Stroke Community
48:33 Keeping The Positivity
55:49 Lessons From The Stroke

Transcript:

Polo Gomez 0:00
Hello everybody, and welcome to episode 323 of the Recovery After Stroke Podcast. Today, I’m thrilled to introduce Polo Gomez, an industrial worker from Pensacola, Florida, who is sharing his incredible story of resilience after suffering a hemorrhagic stroke.

Bill Gasiamis 0:20
Polo’s journey began while he was on a job site, suddenly experiencing the classic signs of stroke, including a drooping face and loss of mobility on his left side. What followed was a whirlwind of emergency intervention and months of rehabilitation. A Polo’s determination to regain his independence and strength never wavered.

Bill Gasiamis 0:44
In this episode, Polo discusses the emotional and physical challenges he faced as a stroke survivor, how he copes with the deficits left by the stroke and his journey toward recovery. He also shares how he shifted his mindset from frustration to gratitude, choosing to focus on what he could achieve rather than what he had lost. Polo’s story is one of grit, faith and perseverance, offering a powerful message for stroke survivors and their families.

Bill Gasiamis 1:13
Before we dive into Polo’s story, I’d like to remind you that if you find value in these episodes, and you’d love to see the recovery after stroke podcast continue, because you’re getting a lot of value as well personally, and you hope that other people will also find the podcast and get value from the podcast. Then you can support the show through Patreon, at patreon.com/recoveryafterstroke and be a part in confirming the success and the ongoing ability for me to record more podcast episodes.

Bill Gasiamis 1:51
Your support helps keep the podcast going and ensures that we can continue to share these inspiring and hopeful stories with our community of stroke survivors. Every contribution makes a difference, and I’m truly grateful for your support.

Bill Gasiamis 2:06
Polo Gomez, Welcome to the podcast.

Polo Gomez 2:10
Glad to be here.

Bill Gasiamis 2:12
Glad to have you tell me a little bit about what happened to you.

Polo Gomez 2:14
Well, I was out, I work, I travel a lot for work. So I do industrial solar, we do like Solar farms. We build solar farms, and I was working, and I was having a meeting and right when the meeting was over, some papers sent seemed to fell on the ground, they fell off my hands into the ground, so I sat down and picked them up, and when I picked them up, I just all of a sudden felt my face drop on my left side. So I stood up, I was still able to stand up and walk towards the office.

Polo Gomez 2:54
And I spoke to one of the engineers and I was like ‘Hey man, I think something’s going on. And I told them, she’s like ‘Why? And I told her, I said ‘Well, I think that my the left side of my face is drooping, and she’s like ‘Oh, I think it is. She’s like ‘I think you’re having a stroke. So she called 911, and they they made her, they made me do a test with my hands, and I guess I didn’t pass him they’re like ‘Yeah, he’s having a stroke. So they called an ambulance, the ambulance got me off of the job site, and then a helicopter picked me up and flew me to the to the hospital.

Bill Gasiamis 3:24
How far away hospital were you?

Polo Gomez 3:27
Probably about four to five miles away, but I got there pretty quick because of the helicopter ride.

Bill Gasiamis 3:35
And whereabouts were you in the in the in the area, a major city? Where were you?

Polo Gomez 3:40
Yeah, I was in Pensacola, Florida, so shout out to Sacred Heart Hospital, they were real, they acted fast, took real good care of me.

Bill Gasiamis 3:51
So other than that, Polo, did you notice any other symptoms, any other signs that something might be wrong, the days leading or the weeks leading to that day?

Polo Gomez 4:00
You know what couple couple days leading to that? Well, I would have some like, a slight headaches, but I thought it was because I had a toothache at one point, and I thought that’s what it was, so I would pump some Advils, and it would go away. But never did I feel dizzy or nothing, you know, nothing out of the norm. And then when that hit me, all of a sudden, it just, it kind of freaked me out.

Bill Gasiamis 4:27
What did you lose? Any of your abilities, your legs, your arms. Did anything stop working at the time just before you got to hospital?

Polo Gomez 4:38
No, my legs did because when she’s when that when my when my coworker sat me down, she’s like ‘Hey, I’m going to go get help, wait for me here. I was like ‘Heck, no, am I going to stay here? And I try to walk out behind her, and I went to the ground.

Polo Gomez 4:50
So yeah, my left side gave out, so I mean, they told me at the they told me at the at the hospital, that luckily they reacted that fast, they did. If not, I woulda, I woulda started losing my right side and maybe my vision and my voice. So, you know, I was very thankful, very blessed that, you know, nothing, nothing else happened more than what, what did take place? You know.

Bill Gasiamis 5:19
What kind of stroke was it?

Polo Gomez 5:21
It was a hemorrhagic stroke, hemorrhagic yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 5:27
And do they know what caused the bleeding?

Polo Gomez 5:30
High blood pressure.

Bill Gasiamis 5:33
Were you aware of the high blood pressure?

Polo Gomez 5:36
Yes, but since I, like I said, I travel a lot for work, I was out of medication, and I had to go get an evaluation so I can get more meds, and I didn’t make time for it. It’s not that I didn’t have time, that’s just an excuse, you know. I could have made time for it, but it’s just you don’t feel bad, so I’m like ‘Man, I could wait. Well, now I know that you it can’t, you know?

Bill Gasiamis 5:59
So you had high blood pressure for many years you’d been diagnosed.

Polo Gomez 6:05
No, couple months, yeah, a couple months.

Bill Gasiamis 6:12
Man, that’s full on, so you got diagnosed. How did they find that you had high blood pressure? Was just random checkup, or did you have a plan?

Polo Gomez 6:22
Yeah, it was a random checkup, I went. Because I was there was times where I’d get to my office and I’d get in front of my computer, and as soon as I’d get there, I’d get real like, I could not keep my eyes open. It just felt real tired. Sometimes when I’d be driving, I’d be driving perfectly fine, and then all of a sudden, I just get real tired. So I went and got a little checkup, and they told me, that’s what it was.

Bill Gasiamis 6:50
How old are you?

Polo Gomez 6:52
I’m 38 years old.

Bill Gasiamis 6:54
And how long ago did this happen?

Polo Gomez 6:57
This just happened, January 29th.

Bill Gasiamis 6:59
So not long ago.

Polo Gomez 7:01
Yeah, not long ago.

Bill Gasiamis 7:03
And how long did you spend in hospital?

Polo Gomez 7:05
A month, I was in there for a month. Then they, they released me, but I had to go to a therapy facility. So I went there for 14 days because they didn’t take my insurance, and it was we had to pay out of pocket, and it was like, like 27,000 for those 14 days, so there’s no way I could afford that. So I was there for 14 days, and then after that I got I started going to therapy.

Bill Gasiamis 7:31
So now we’re in August of 2024 it’s been about eight months, something like that, right? Yes, what are you recovering from now? What are you dealing with now?

Polo Gomez 7:50
Well, like I said, I’ve been, you know, I watch videos, I try to do a lot of researching, and, you know, and I’m aware that you get your, your the most of your mobility in the first six months and with an intense therapy. But I feel like my therapy was never really intense, but I can, I went into my physical therapy place in a wheelchair and you just, Friday was my last day, and I came out of there walking with a Hemi Walker.

Polo Gomez 8:22
You know, so my arm, I really haven’t gotten no much movement out of it, and that’s really what I’m trying to currently work on now, get more therapy on it. But you know, I’ve been told by a lot of a lot of different positions that to not expect a lot more out of my left hand, but I’m a firm believer, you know, and I feel like the man up above is the one that has the last say so, as long as I keep continue to put effort in it, effort into it, you know, I can get to where i i believe i can get to where I need to be.

Bill Gasiamis 8:54
Yeah, go for it, I also believe that nobody should tell you you shouldn’t expect anymore. It might be accurate, like statistically and all that kind of stuff, and I’m okay with that part of it, but what I don’t like about that statement is if the Polo’s of the world decide to take that for real and then not do anything to rehabilitate that at all, so you’re never going to know, because if you, if you make the decision to not do anything for that arm.

Bill Gasiamis 9:23
Well then 100% that arm will not recover, but if you’re going about recovery and you’re attempting to recover it, well there is a chance that it will do something, and that’s what I don’t like about doctors saying, don’t expect anything more from it, like it’s kind of, I know where they’re coming from, but I don’t think it’s appropriate, I don’t think it’s useful to say that to somebody.

Polo Gomez 9:46
Yeah, I don’t either, at first it kind of kind of brought me down, but then, like I said, I started thinking about it I’m like ‘Wait a minute, you know. The man up above is the one that has the last word, and as long as I try, I think if I put my mind to it. I’m able, I’m capable of doing whatever I put my mind to.

Intro 10:03
If you’ve had a stroke and you’re in recovery, you’ll know what a scary and confusing time it can be. You’re likely to have a lot of questions going through your mind, like, how long will it take to recover? Will I actually recover? What things should I avoid in case I make matters worse? Doctors will explain things, but obviously, you’ve never had a stroke before, you probably don’t know what questions to ask.

Intro 10:28
If this is you, you may be missing out on doing things that could help speed up your recovery. If you’re finding yourself in that situation, stop worrying and head to recoveryafterstroke.com, where you can download a guide that will help you. It’s called ‘Seven questions to ask your doctor about your stroke.

Intro 10:47
These seven questions are the ones Bill wished he’d asked when he was recovering from a stroke. They’ll not only help you better understand your condition, they’ll help you take a more active role in your recovery. Head to the website now recoveryafterstroke.com, and download the guide, It’s free.

Bill Gasiamis 11:06
Yeah, it could be a longer journey for that arm, right? It could take a lot longer than what we want, or whatever, but I don’t like it. I don’t like hearing that and then thinking that that might make somebody decide not to try at all, that’s the worst thing that can happen is you give up completely on that arm, and then you’ll get the result that the doctor said 100% of the time.

Bill Gasiamis 11:31
You know, so good on you. I like that attitude there Polo, so how did all this stuff impact your work? Like you go from being an installer of solar equipment and all that type of thing, and now you’re not able to do that work initially.

Polo Gomez 11:52
So I was a supervisor, but so it impacted me, because I used to have to walk the field and make sure everything was in in order, you know, in line, and well, I couldn’t do that no more, so I ended up being out of work for 180 days, and for legal purposes, they had to release me. So now, I don’t have a job no more. But, I mean, I can’t let it get me down, you know what? You gotta keep.

Polo Gomez 12:16
Continue to fight and then hopefully I keep it’s like I told my my therapist, I said, Listen, if I was to get 70-75% to me, that’s 100% because, you know, I don’t have that mobility in my arm, so 75 to me would be 100%. And that’s just what my goal is. Just try to get whatever I can out of it and continue on with my life, you know.

Bill Gasiamis 12:38
And with your family situation. What was that like? Are you married? You had family?

Polo Gomez 12:45
No, sir. I have a girlfriend that, luckily, she stayed by my side. She helps me out with whatever she can. My parents, I still have my eye to move back in with my parents. My parents and my brother, they’ve, I mean, they’ve been the world. They they’ve been there for me since day one, helped me out with everything. When they get home, they’re like, Alright, it’s time to get up and let’s, let’s start working on something, you know, so I got 150% back up from them.

Polo Gomez 13:13
So that’s also, I think that’s also a big, a big plus. You know, my friends, I have a lot of friends that never left my side. I mean, my hometown is like, 9 hours away from where I was, and when that occurred, my friends from back home were up there, you know. And since the day one, they, I got videos where they’re helping me out of the wheelchair, helping me walk, trying to get me to walk. So, I mean, I have a support from every direction.

Bill Gasiamis 13:43
There’s a lot of blessings there. Your very positive mindset, have you always been that way? Is that the kind of guy you always are, look for solutions, don’t focus on the problems?

Polo Gomez 13:54
Yes. I really try, I’m not a guy that stresses a lot about nothing. I feel like there’s always a way out of something, you know what I mean?

Bill Gasiamis 14:05
Yeah, I like that, man, that’s really really good. It is going to be up and down. You’re going to have setbacks, you’re going to have wins, you’re going to have things that you overcome, you’re going to have things that are harder to overcome. But if you keep focusing on the path forward, where the solutions are, then you’re likely to achieve them, you know, if you sit and focus on the problems, then you’re definitely going to have a ton of problems. You know, there’s going to be.

Polo Gomez 14:36
Yeah, sure definitely every life hasn’t been the same, you know everything. There’s a lot of things that change, as in like, what’s that word I’m looking for? Like self care, like I need help when I bathe, you know. But like I said, my brother and my father, they’re there 100%, you know, I don’t know, I can’t thank them enough, it’s crazy, independent, you know, be more independent, but I’m getting there.

Polo Gomez 15:11
Like I said to too many, where I’m at now might not be a lot, but, I mean, when I first got out of the hospital, I couldn’t sit up in bed. I as soon as they set me up, I’d go back down to either side. And now I can get when I got out of the 14 days that I was in that physical therapy place, I couldn’t use the restroom on my own, I couldn’t go to the restroom, now I go to the restroom on my own. So, you know, little things like that to me are big thing.

Polo Gomez 15:37
You know, when I when I’m laying, when I’m laying in bed, I try to move my arm, and when it moves a little bit to me, it’s, it means it all because I’m like ‘Man, I couldn’t move it at all. And I’m getting a little moving out of it. It’s crazy. It definitely made me value life a lot more. I’ll tell you that much, because I was, I’m, I’m not going to say I was a bad person, but I was a little wild.

Polo Gomez 15:57
You know, I’m young. I didn’t think twice about doing something dumb, I was crazy. I was a little wild on the wild side. Now, you know, it changed me. I look at things a lot different, I feel like I got a second opportunity at life. So, you know, I sure want to take advantage of it in a whole different way.

Bill Gasiamis 16:23
Alright, completely understand, now with the bleeding, how did they resolve it? Did they have to operate?

Polo Gomez 16:30
No, sir. Yeah they were able to stop the bleeding, and I went and got my second CT or MRI, and they said that everything stopped. So everything’s been, everything’s been going pretty well, I guess.

Bill Gasiamis 16:48
Yeah.

Polo Gomez 16:49
I didn’t know nothing about a stroke. So my my brother was telling me he’s like ‘Man, when you first got out the hospital, you were talking like nothing was wrong with you, like if you were just going to continue life. So I’m the wise, just didn’t know, I didn’t know what a stroke, you know, consisted of, or that I if I had a stroke, I couldn’t get up and walk the next day. So, you know, and still, to this day, I still try to be positive and be like ‘Man, you know, because at first it was rough.

Polo Gomez 17:14
I’m not going to lie to you, when I get out of bed, when I wake up in the mornings, and I’d wake up and, you know, look, turn around and look to my right in my wheelchair was there. I’m like ‘Man, it’s not the same, you know, when people you know, at first, I first, I was a little mad at the world, you know, because I’m like, Why me? You know. But now I think about it, and man, I much rather it happened to me than anybody out of out of my friends or my family members, you know.

Polo Gomez 17:39
So, you know, I wouldn’t want them to go through, nobody to go through this. It’s kind of crazy. But, like I said, I’m not happy that it happened. But it really was an eye opener. It made me look at at several different things, several different ways now. So, I mean, things happen for a reason, is what they say so.

Bill Gasiamis 18:00
And you remind me of me.

Polo Gomez 18:06
I was 300 pounds whenever this happened to me, and now I’m now I’m 270 so I’ve lost a lot of I’ve lost a lot of weight.

Bill Gasiamis 18:19
So you think the weight had a lot to do with the blood pressure?

Polo Gomez 18:23
That’s it, yeah, because, you know, people say stress, but I’m not a, I’m not a type of person that stresses. I don’t, if something doesn’t get done today at work, get away, if it don’t get done today or get done tomorrow. You know what I mean, I’m that type of guy, I don’t.

Bill Gasiamis 18:40
Did you smoke?

Polo Gomez 18:44
No, sir, I just drank. I used to drink, so now I don’t drink at all.

Bill Gasiamis 18:55
How much did you drink?

Polo Gomez 18:59
Well, it’s kind of crazy, because I wouldn’t drink during the week, and then I would drink on the weekends. But it’s like, I drink on the weekends. Whatever I didn’t drink in the week, I’d drink it in the weekend.

Bill Gasiamis 19:09
A lot of alcohol, so too much binge drinking.

Polo Gomez 19:13
Yeah, I used to party a lot. I was just like, I said I was, I come from a Hispanic family. You know, Hispanics, then they party for everything. So it’s just, you know like I said it’s putting down a lot.

Bill Gasiamis 19:29
You guys can still party, but you just have to do a little less of the alcohol stuff and the smoking stuff and all the stuff that perhaps people did. I get what you’re saying when everything is kind of a celebration and everything’s going good. You just figure, I can keep going, but you get to 38 and you’ve been doing it for 20 years, and then it’s kind of like, wow, like it’s catching up with me, and that’s what happens.

Bill Gasiamis 19:52
I got, I had my brain hemorrhoid when I was 37, so I was not doing anything terribly bad, but I’d smoke and drink, not a lot. But after smoking, I started smoking when I was 13, that’s a long time, man, you know, but if things catch up with you, and it seems like I’m still young, I’m 37 it’s not that much of a big deal, but I’ve been smoking since I was 13. Like, that’s a long time.

Polo Gomez 20:25
Yeah, no, I was drinking the same way, and then get up early. I drink till like two, three o’clock in the morning, then get up at six and go to work. You know, I was putting a beating on myself, I think.

Bill Gasiamis 20:38
Yeah, but yeah without knowing it, yeah.

Polo Gomez 20:41
And now I don’t, you know, people say, Oh, you can have a beer or two. I’m like, Nah, I’m too scared of of it triggering something, and have going through this again. I don’t want to take my chances over a drink of alcohol. You know what I mean?

Bill Gasiamis 20:54
That’s why I avoided alcohol for the first five years polo, and I had, maybe in the next, you know, in the sixth year, maybe I had one drink in six months, and I’m talking about literally one drink, and I’d be drunk by the end of the bottle, you know, because I hadn’t, I wasn’t used to it at all. And now it’s the same, we’ll go out for dinner or catch up with friends, we’ll go to a party.

Bill Gasiamis 21:18
People will come over, and I won’t drink unless I’m at my house and I don’t have to leave and go anywhere, and even then, I’m only going to have half a drink or one drink, because I lose my balance. The numbness gets worse on my left side, it feels like I’m having a stroke, you know? So what’s the point of that? I don’t enjoy it at all.

Polo Gomez 21:39
Yeah, now I don’t, what I do now is I drink like sparkling water just to make just to trick the brain, I guess, and be there hanging out, but now I don’t.

Bill Gasiamis 21:49
Yeah, I’m the same sparkling water with wine with, um, with a wedge of lemon or a wedge of lime and ice, just to make it look like it’s a drink.

Polo Gomez 22:00
And then, like I said, I have a very huge, huge group of supportive friends where they don’t try to peer pressure me. Oh, drink no, you know? Now, when they come over, they bring me sparkling water with a with a couple limes, you know? I don’t, so I don’t have that peer pressure, you know what I mean? Or, or they’ll call me ‘Hey, Is it okay if I bring some alcohol over there? Man, it’s fine. I don’t, I don’t crave it. I don’t, because I’m too scared, you know.

Bill Gasiamis 22:28
That is that’s perfectly fine, and it’s helping you lose weight as well, and the more weight you lose, the the lighter you’ll feel on your feet, and that hopefully will support your walking, and it’ll make it easier for you to get around and to rehabilitate the walking part.

Polo Gomez 22:45
Yeah, that’s, that’s what I’m working on. Like I said, I can walk with a Hemi Walker, and then I live like in the block, like in the block of my house, I live right in the center. So I used to only be able to walk from the house to a stop sign last-last week, I was able to walk around the whole block for the first time. So it’s coming, you know, slowly but surely, and little stuff like that motivates me.

Bill Gasiamis 23:09
Yeah, it seems little, but it’s big, man, it’s huge. You’re doing a great thing, yeah, by focusing on where you’ve come and where you started constantly, sort of reflecting back, look what I’m doing now compared to what I was doing a month ago or two months ago. That’s how you encourage yourself to keep going after recovery.

Bill Gasiamis 23:27
You know, that’s exactly the attitude that you need, any other attitude might get you there, but this type of version of, it’s small ‘I used to only be able to go to the stop sign, now I go around the block. That’s big, man. That’s not small, that’s huge, and people don’t realized.

Polo Gomez 23:45
At first, it was kind of hard. It was kind of hard because I was always, I always try to be the life of the party. I was always the loud, wild one. And then when this happened to me, I didn’t want to go out, because I didn’t want people like my brother would be like ‘Hey, man, let’s go out and eat. Neither one to because I didn’t we. We’re from a small town, so everybody knows everybody.

Polo Gomez 24:02
And I just didn’t want nobody to see me like this, you know, because it’s not me. And then I did have a couple friends that would go over and did it. As soon as they see me, they started crying. They’re like, man, I was just not used to seeing you like this, and but like I said, once I started getting a little bit of movements and starting doing this and being able to do that, like the other day, I was able to put my shoe on for the first time by myself. So to me, I’m like, Man, I send everybody a picture. Hey, look what I just did. You know, because it’s, it’s just, it’s crazy.

Bill Gasiamis 24:32
No, it’s huge, man, to be celebrating putting on your shoe on for the first time again. It seems like a a small thing. Most people don’t pay attention to it. And for you, it’s like a big achievement. When we got there, you know, you shoot independence, you know. What about driving? Did they take your license?

Polo Gomez 24:50
No, sir, they didn’t. Well, I haven’t, I don’t know how that works, they gave me a the handicap sticker, but nobody’s asked me for my license, or anything about my license, but the other day, like I said, I’m from a small town, and the my primary doctor is only about two miles away from my house, three miles. So my mom’s like, hey, you need to try to drive to see if you can drive. So she drove.

Polo Gomez 25:17
She rode with me, but I drove, and I got and I was able to do it right. So I got to the the clinic, and I was, I told my doctor ‘Hey, guess what? I just drove here, and she’s like ‘Well, who cleared you to drive? I’m like, I kind of cleared myself. I guess nobody told me not to, but no, I did well. So I don’t know if I’m supposed to talk to somebody about that or not, I don’t know how that works.

Bill Gasiamis 25:43
How did I know? Was there any problem with steering with one hand? I imagine that would have been the problem, you probably should adjust the indicator, the hand thing, you know the pole or a steering wheel.

Polo Gomez 25:58
No, I’ll be honest with you, no, because I’m right handed as it is, so that’s good. And not only that, but when I first started driving, I was always taught to use one foot so, you know, I used, it was it came pretty-pretty natural. I didn’t really have a issue. The only weird thing that was kind of funny is that I let go of the steering wheel one time because I thought my left hand had it and it didn’t.

Polo Gomez 26:27
But I caught on to that quick, and I’m like No But still, to this time I walk up to a door sometimes, and I feel like my left hand is the one that’s reaching to open the door, you know, to grab the doorknob, and it’s not so I don’t know that’s something I’m still trying to get used to.

Bill Gasiamis 26:46
Yeah, so that might be something that you need to consider when you’re driving. And you know, they had those adaptive knobs, you know, those knobs, they’re like a doorknob. They put it on the steering wheel and swivels so that you can turn the steering with one hand, and then they can adjust the cars in so many ways so that all the signals are in the right position for your hand. But it sounds like it’s mostly already Okay. The other thing is, it’s automatic, so you don’t need to change.

Polo Gomez 27:22
Yeah, and then you know, I’ve looked into all that stuff, but then I stopped myself. I’m like ‘No, wait a minute. I got to try to get back to my normal self, to where I don’t have to do any modifications, you know what I mean. So, it’s working out so far.

Bill Gasiamis 27:39
Yeah, slowly but surely. Look, it might be a good idea to get an assessment, but I don’t know what that means, I don’t know how it works in America, nobody came to me either and said ‘You’ve been through brain surgery. These things have happened. You can’t walk you can’t use your left side. You need to sit another driver’s license test, or Nobody did that with me either.

Bill Gasiamis 28:01
So about, I think it would have been maybe about two months after my brain surgery and being released from therapy, I came home walking also, and my left hand was working, but it wasn’t working 100% and I just jumped in the car and started driving as well, and I got really tired, I felt fatigued because of all the movement and all the things I had to concentrate on.

Bill Gasiamis 28:37
And my drive was quite a short drive as well, but it was something that I really needed to get used to. But it didn’t occur to me to go and get some professional help from a driving instructor for example.

Polo Gomez 28:54
Yeah, I’m gonna have to look into that. Because I don’t, I don’t. Nobody’s my doctor hasn’t even mentioned to me to go, you know, talk to somebody, but my brother, like I said, he’ll jump on with me, and I always go with somebody, I’m never by myself. But, you know, they, they come on so you can get, you know, used to driving again. So, you know, we go around the block, we go to town, stuff like small stuff like that, not no long trips or nothing, but no, I feel great on in that in that point.

Bill Gasiamis 29:27
Let’s pause here for a moment, but don’t go anywhere. We’ll be back shortly to continue Polo’s inspiring journey. Before we return. I’d like to take a moment to mention my book ‘The Unexpected Way That A Stroke Became The Best Thing That Happened. It’s a guide to post-traumatic growth, not just through my own experience, but through the stories of others who have turned their stroke recovery into opportunities for personal transformation.

Bill Gasiamis 29:54
If you’re seeking hope and practical advice on navigating life after stroke, this Book is for you, you can find it on Amazon or visit recoveryafterstroke.com/book to learn more. Now back to Polo’s incredible journey of overcoming stroke deficits and finding new strength.

Bill Gasiamis 30:17
How about the rest of your energy? Do you get fatigued? Do you feel like you run out of steam during the middle of the day or by the end of the day,

Polo Gomez 30:25
You know what? No, not really, I mean, at first, yes for the first couple, the first couple months, yes, in the morning I I’d sleep in every day, but I didn’t have that much energy, but now it’s, I feel like I’m gaining that back. I started drinking that mushroom coffee, and it seems to give me a little bit of energy, and it, I mean, I feel, I feel pretty good, and so I also had a sleep apnea, and now I got my CPAP machine. So I even, I get rest, Oh man.

Bill Gasiamis 31:02
So you find a massive difference because of the CPAP. You wear it at night on your face at night, blows oxygen into your body, you wake up rested.

Polo Gomez 31:13
Yes and you don’t feel it the first night you use it, except for the first couple times you use it, I want to say the first week or two that you start feeling a real big difference.

Bill Gasiamis 31:26
So you know that mushroom coffee, Lion’s Mane, is it lion’s mane?

Polo Gomez 31:37
No, the one I drink is that rice.

Bill Gasiamis 31:43
Does it taste any good?

Polo Gomez 31:44
Yeah when I first drank it, I drank it by itself. It kind of tastes like dirt, but then they told me, they told me that I could add a little bit of creamer to it, and I had a hazelnut creamer. Oh, and it tastes great, I drink it every morning.

Bill Gasiamis 32:03
It tastes like the earth, right? I understand. I never had it, and I I’m not sure if I could, but if you can make it taste a little better with a little bit of creamer or some other.

Polo Gomez 32:16
Yeah, I use hazelnut. It tastes it tastes pretty good, yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 32:21
And why did you get onto that mushroom coffee?

Polo Gomez 32:25
Because I ran into it on social media a lot, and I said that it was good to make you focus and and to gain gain energy and help you with your with your sugar levels and stuff like that, because I was pre diabetic, so I tried it. I like it, and it helped. I mean, it feels good.

Bill Gasiamis 32:50
We could, since you’ve stopped drinking alcohol. Is the pre diabetes settled down as well?

Polo Gomez 32:56
That I don’t know. I haven’t gone to get new lab work. I’m due for it next month, I believe. So we’ll see what they tell me, then.

Bill Gasiamis 33:05
There should be an improvement, because, alcohol causes a lot of well, depending on what you’re drinking, actually, what were you drinking? Beer?

Polo Gomez 33:13
Yeah Beer.

Bill Gasiamis 33:16
That does impact diabetes levels and all that type of stuff. It probably makes a lot of things worse. The fact that you’re not doing that, you should have seen some kind of an improvement.

Polo Gomez 33:27
Yeah, so my big mistake, I think, was, like that day I got my stroke, I was like, three Red Bulls in that day.

Bill Gasiamis 33:36
Oh man.

Polo Gomez 33:39
So I’m pretty sure that did not help not one bit.

Bill Gasiamis 33:42
Not one bit, all the caffeine pumping into your veins after three bulls. I think it’s one Red Bull is I think, like the equivalent of four cups of coffee, and if you’re smashing three Red Bulls in a short amount of time, that’s like having 12 cups of coffee that’s impacting your heart, that’s impacting every system in your body, It’s increasing your blood pressure, your heart rate, man that’s tough.

Polo Gomez 34:08
The sad part about it. Is they didn’t even work. I didn’t get no energy out of them. I think it was just like a bad habit. That’s all it was a bad habit.

Bill Gasiamis 34:19
And you’re off them now as well.

Polo Gomez 34:21
Oh yeah, I don’t even look at it when I go to the store.

Bill Gasiamis 34:26
You’re a different man now, Polo.

Polo Gomez 34:28
Oh yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 34:30
You like the new Polo like you must? It sounds like you’re really proud of yourself.

Polo Gomez 34:35
I feel safer, if that makes any sense. You know, I was a like, I said I was a little wild. I was the type of guy that I never, I never looked for problems. It seems like the problems found me, I was the type of guy that I couldn’t stand. Anybody get bullied. So somebody was getting bullied, I’d jump. I didn’t care if I didn’t know the person, I would jump in and be like ‘Hey man, don’t mess with this person. And next thing you know, I’m I get caught up in fights.

Polo Gomez 35:06
And now I just think about it different. I don’t if I could gain movement in my left arm, because I was real nasty with my left arm, I can throw a punch, and I feel like, now, if I can get mobility in my left arm, that’s the last thing I would use it for. I just want to get right. First of all, my main priority, is to get right so I can do for my family like they did for me.

Polo Gomez 35:41
You know what I mean? So I can be there, be able to be there for them, how they work for me, and another thing I want to do is go back and just talk to people about strokes, you know, because if they were like me, that they don’t, they didn’t know nothing about it, It’s kind of hard, you know it’s, I couldn’t stand when people would tell me ‘Hey, man, it’s going to be okay. I’m like, How do you know you’re not going through this? You know, you don’t know what is, but now, you know, I understand they’re they’re just coming to you with the good intentions.

Polo Gomez 36:12
You know they’re not. But no, I just, like, I said, I’m just trying to. I’m just trying to be a all around, just be a better person. Be a better person with myself, with my co workers at work, and like I said about my number one priority is to get better so I can be there for the ones that were there for me at all times, you know?

Bill Gasiamis 36:38
Yeah, that’s a pretty good thing to achieve, man, to focus, to go after. So what’s interesting is, you have all this awareness about your previous habits, the way that you used to interact with people. You have that awareness now, before you were unwell, did it ever occur to you that maybe I need to settle down, take things easier, make a few changes. When you were quote, unquote, well, and your body was working, did you ever kind of reflect on your behavior and think and maybe I should change this?

Polo Gomez 37:12
I never thought of anything. I never thought anything like this could happen, you know, like, and it’s like I said at first I was mad at the world, I’m like, Why? Why me? But I’m like, why not me? You know, who am I? How am I any different than you or than anybody else? You know? It’s just sometimes I think it’s things you gotta go through in order for you to open your eyes and be like ‘Hey guy, you’re messing up.

Polo Gomez 37:39
And it’s, it kind of, it kind of sucks that it had to get to this extent, you know. But hey, at least they got another chance. What if I wouldn’t have been here, you know? Then there would have been no coming back. So, I mean, it’s a tough situation. You just gotta learn how to deal with it, you know.

Bill Gasiamis 37:58
Yeah if you didn’t make it, you wouldn’t had that opportunity to make things right.

Polo Gomez 38:05
Exactly, and that’s my goal, is to make things right.

Bill Gasiamis 38:14
That’s a good goal. So now what are you hoping to achieve in the next 12 months? Like, I know you want to get some movement back and all that kind of stuff, but you said you wanted to support people, talk about stroke, raise awareness. Like, what are you thinking about? Have you got any long term goals? Are you thinking about something 12 months out from now?

Polo Gomez 38:42
No, I have not really my main goal right now is to be able to get back to work, but like, you know, I feel like one thing that helped me a lot was, like, I said, I never knew anybody that had a stroke, that suffered a stroke, especially at a young age, and I felt like I was alone, and then I started looking into, like, on tiktoks and stuff like that. And I started looking in like videos and stuff like that, and I’m and I met some people that were my age that went through the same thing, and I reached out to him, and I spoke to him, and I’m not going to lie it, it felt different.

Polo Gomez 39:14
It felt good to be able to talk to somebody that can relate, you know, your age the same thing, that can relate to what you’re going through. So, I mean, I don’t know what what I plan on doing, but I do want to plan on doing something like that, so people know that they’re not alone, sometimes you just need somebody to talk to, and it does take a lot of weight off of your shoulders, and I can’t remember them, the gentleman’s name right off the top of his off of my head, but, you know.

Polo Gomez 39:38
It was cool that he reached back out to me when I when I messaged him, he read my message and reached back out, you know, not, not a lot of people do that, but he reached back out, and we conversated for a little bit, and he gave me a couple of, you know, a couple of ideas to do, you know, things to do, or whatever. So I would like to organize something like that, just so people know that they’re not alone, you can reach out to anybody and and somebody can.

Polo Gomez 40:04
Because when I was in that therapy place, a young lady there told me said ‘You know what you need, you need to talk somebody around your age, you know, that’s been through this. And then she asked another co workers, like, Who can we bring to him so he can talk? And he’s like, Well, nobody, he’s the youngest one in here. So, you know it’s kind of scary in the way, because you feel like you’re, you’re in here alone.

Bill Gasiamis 40:25
And it’s a small town, so there wouldn’t be a lot of people there that, yeah, have been through what you’ve been through. So all the other people around you, a lot older, maybe, what are they in their 60s and 70s? You can’t relate to that, that’s really hard, that’s usually what we think of when we think about stroke, we always think about older people.

Bill Gasiamis 40:45
And now, you’re 37 and when I was going through that, I was in a ward, and all the people around me were all elderly, you know, and they were really suffering from their strokes, and they were frail, and I couldn’t cope with it like I didn’t understand what is this, you know, what? What has happened to me? You know, how? How am I in the same place with these guys? It doesn’t make sense. I’ve never known anybody who’s 30 years old or 37 years old that’s had a stroke, and that’s my issue as well.

Bill Gasiamis 41:17
And I really reached out and tried to find a lot of people, local community, online, wherever I could. Being in the city, it was a bit easier because there was a lot more younger people that I found through the Stroke Foundation that was my age that had a stroke.

Bill Gasiamis 41:31
So I was also in need of that, and it sounds like a lot of people are in need of that, and that’s what this podcast does, It allows people like you and me to connect and share stories and understand each other and share our concerns, our frustrations, our fears, and get it off and just get it off our shoulders and just put it into.

Polo Gomez 41:52
You know what I thought about? I thought about that, about building some kind of making, some kind of podcast, or some kind of videos and interview like my friends, you know, because to me, I think I was very, very blessed to have the friends that I have, because they never, not because of my situation, they exclude me from anything.

Polo Gomez 42:13
They’re always there to invite me, to pick me up, you know, hold me up, like, if nothing was wrong with me, you know what I mean. And I know it’s not easy, like when I tell my girlfriend, she always invites me somewhere ‘Hey, let’s go here. Let’s go there, you know, let’s go to football games. And I’m like, No, you know, because I don’t feel like you should be the one pushing me in a wheelchair.

Polo Gomez 42:32
You know, it’s, it’s not your job. But you know, they didn’t take no for an answer, and they’re always been there for me, and they don’t mind pushing me in a wheelchair. It’s good to raise some kind of awareness like that, we’re like ‘Hey man, if you got somebody that’s, you know, close to you, be there for them, you know, because you don’t know, you know. And I’m talking from both sides, because I’m the person that needed the support, and I have the people that gave me the support.

Bill Gasiamis 43:02
You feel like, you feel like it’d be good to pay it back.

Polo Gomez 43:07
I mean, I just want to be right, in case somebody needs something, I’m there to I’m there for them as well, and they were there for me.

Bill Gasiamis 43:16
So did it make you? Did this thing make you kind of aware of your mortality that ‘Hey, I’m here for a short time of life.

Polo Gomez 43:28
Yeah, but you know what? It’s crazy. It’s crazy that you say that, because I used to tell my girlfriend all the time. I said ‘Hey man, I got a feeling something’s going to happen to me soon. Like, I don’t think I’m going to be here for this for for much longer. Like, I always had a feeling. I don’t know why, and it’s probably because of the way I was living. You know what I mean? Both physically and just in the everyday life.

Bill Gasiamis 43:54
Do you feel like that shifted now? Do you now not have that same feeling?

Polo Gomez 44:00
Well, I mean, even though it’s in the back of my head that this could happen again, but for the most part, like I said, I try to stay positive and think positive, and try to better myself so I can physically, internally and mentally better myself, not just for a couple of months ‘Okay, now I’m good. I’m ready to go again, back to my old ways. That’s not the plan, but like I said, I’m always been a type of, a type of person that I’m like ‘Man, I live my life.

Polo Gomez 44:31
I don’t like to I don’t hold no regrets, because I and especially now, you know, when somebody asked me, Hey man, you think I should do this? ‘Hey buddy, if that’s what you want to do and that’s what you feel, right? It is do it, because Tomorrow is not promised, or if it is, you don’t know if you’re going to be in the same shape you are today, I said ‘Look at me when I got my stroke that weekend.

Polo Gomez 44:54
I’m a type of guy that likes to, you know, go to Spanish concerts, and I like to dance. So I flew down from Pensacola to South Florida for a dance. I took my girlfriend, went to go dance that weekend. I flew back on Sunday, and I got my stroke on Monday. It’s crazy, one minute you can be dancing, the next day, you can’t even walk ‘Oh yeah, like I said, it makes you look at life a whole different.

Bill Gasiamis 45:25
That’s a 180 degree turn there, mate. That’s ridiculous, like flying, traveling, partying, dancing, enjoying yourself, wake up the next couple of days later in hospital, can’t move, can’t do anything.

Polo Gomez 45:39
And everything. It’s scary because this, this past year, my sister moved to Texas, so for New Year’s, we went to spend the night the New Year’s with my sister in Texas, and I remember when the, when the New Years came, hit. I told my parents, I said, Hey, that’s what I said ‘Hey, Dad, hey mom, hey. I told my brother. I said ‘Hey, man, this is going to be my year, this is my year.

Polo Gomez 46:04
I said, I’m going to, I’m going to make some big moves this year. And then couple days later, I felt like I was in the top, because I was doing real good with my job and everything I was on, I was on top, and then next thing you know, I was pretty much crawling on the ground. So, like I said, it’s a real big eye opener.

Bill Gasiamis 46:24
Yeah, you’re making moves, but in a different way, and it’s does still seem like you’re making big moves, you’re making big changes, you’re learning from the things that weren’t working for you. You you’ve achieved great things, you’re walking around the block now, you’ve put your shoe on for the first time. Like, they are big things, man, they just they look different, and they’re not the kind of big things that you probably thought you were going to do.

Polo Gomez 46:47
Yeah. So, like, I said it was a big setback, but then again, it was a big reset as well.

Bill Gasiamis 46:57
A reset so you see it as a reset, like there was something that needed to a switch that needed to turn off and one that needed to be switched on.

Polo Gomez 47:05
Yep, yeah, because I feel like we’re like, we’re computers as well. We’re like computers, there’s times where we’re going to shut down and reboot, refresh everything, and I think that’s what I needed. So, yeah, well, that’s how I see it now.

Bill Gasiamis 47:19
Yeah, were you spiritual, religious at all before that? Has that changed? Do you see things differently in that kind of space?

Polo Gomez 47:31
Yes, I’ve always been, I was raised in a Catholic family, but, so yeah, that’s what I’m saying, whenever they tell me ‘Hey, I don’t think you’re going to be able to move your arm again. I’m like ‘Wait a minute, man, who are you to tell me I can’t move my arm? And it just, that’s what keeps me going and I pray every day, because, like I said, it’s I think praying is one thing that’s that keeps you, prayers are very powerful, and it’s just one thing that keeps you, it takes a lot of stress off of me, I think.

Bill Gasiamis 48:12
It’s a good thing your identity. You know, you described yourself before the stroke. You’ve described a shift in your identity, but deep down, do you feel the same? Are you different? I know you’re different in your behavior, and some of the things that you stop doing, you stop drinking, you stop you know, mistreating.

Polo Gomez 48:33
No, a lot of people tell me, because, like, I said, I like to play around a lot, I like being a goofball, and a lot of people told me, like ‘Hey, man, at least you haven’t lost that yet. Because, and I don’t plan on too, because sometimes everything does get a little bit overwhelming, so you take it out on other people, and it’s like ‘I stop and think about, I’m like, man, it’s not their fault. You know what? I mean, but no, I like to keep a positive mind, I like to laugh, I like to make people laugh.

Polo Gomez 49:01
It’s just, and I that’s one thing I don’t want to get rid of, or I don’t want to change, because I think when if I talk to you and I make you laugh, it’s a good vibe, you’re going to be positive about things. If I’m sitting there and I’m being an a hole and just treating you bad, you’re going to get bad eyes off of me, you’re going to have a bad day. I’m a firm believer in that on and mentality. If you wake up in a bad with a bad attitude, you’re going to have a bad day. You know what I mean?

Bill Gasiamis 49:32
Yeah. So your personality is still intact. You still go about things the way you always did, you’ve just made a couple of changes, important changes, stopped smoking, stopped drinking, lost a little bit of weight, paying attention to different things that you weren’t paying attention to before being more grateful, sounds like you have a heaps of gratitude for things.

Polo Gomez 49:54
Exactly, I’m very grateful for, like I said, my friends, my girlfriend, and I’m very thankful for the first responders that got there, and because they’re the ones that saved my life, I am very thankful for the doctors, God bless in their hands, for them to save my life, pretty much, and I’m also very thankful for the for the young lady that reacted fast at work.

Polo Gomez 50:23
Because if not, you know, somebody panics, you’re not going to, you’re just causing more damage if you’re wasting time, and she reacted quick, so that’s another person I’m very thankful for, you know, because if it wasn’t because of her being brave and not panicking, things put a her pride could’ve got worse. You know what I mean?

Bill Gasiamis 50:41
Lot of things went your way, definitely, helicopter ride, everything kind of went your way, to get you to the hospital as quickly as possible, and deal with this thing pretty quickly. Do you recall how much time had elapsed between? I think I’ve got a droopy face to I’m actually in the hospital. Do you know how long it took?

Polo Gomez 51:02
It had been a good almost 2 hours, probably, or an hour 45 minutes to 2 hours. Because when I got that, I still went into that office by the time they she called 911, and they got there, and I mean, it sounds like a long time, but I think it was pretty quick, consider the circumstances I was in, you know what I mean, being on a job site, out in the middle of nowhere, so I think it was pretty quick.

Bill Gasiamis 51:29
Yeah, man, I thought it’s to be grateful for. I mean, I’ve said it before. I know people go through difficult times after stroke, very different versions of stroke, everyone has a stroke on a different spectrum, and the recovery is on a different spectrum, like, I totally get it, but there’s never been, there’s never been a more, from a medical perspective.

Bill Gasiamis 51:51
A better time to become unwell, because there’s so much they can do to help people, and so many people have been helped where you and I say 40 years ago, 50 years ago, you know, maybe it’s a different outcome, you know.

Polo Gomez 52:07
Yeah, but now I see people, I hear people say, or like, my brother will say ‘Oh, man, I don’t feel like going to work tomorrow. I’m like ‘Hey, man, enjoy it, because look at me, I wish I could go to work tomorrow, it’s just don’t take the least thing for granted.

Polo Gomez 52:31
Enjoy that you can walk, enjoy that you can work, provide, because it can be gone from one minute to another. So, I mean, there’s a lot of things to be grateful for, and there’s a lot of things to keep fighting for. You know what I mean?

Bill Gasiamis 52:47
Yeah, what was the hardest thing about stroke for you Polo?

Polo Gomez 52:53
Staying positive, not letting not letting it get me down.

Bill Gasiamis 52:59
That was the hardest part?

Polo Gomez 53:01
Yeah, that’s definitely the hardest part, because, like I said, I don’t know nobody my age that has gone through this to where you can relate, or you can be like ‘Oh no, it’s going to be okay, you know, that guy made it. You know, there’s nothing like that. It’s the same positive, you know, people would like said, I didn’t like to go out at first, because people would see you like that, I don’t want nobody seeing me like this.

Polo Gomez 53:22
I look at that, that guy, look he used to be this, this and that, and look at him now, you know, I just it was hard to stay positive, and then people will tell you ‘Hey, man, it’s going to be okay. don’t worry about but I’m like ‘How do you know, you know you don’t know what I’m going through.

Polo Gomez 53:36
But, like I said, they’re just coming to you, trying to come to you at a in a right, in a positive way, they don’t mean to, and but, yeah, I think that’s the most the hardest part is just to stay positive, not let it get you down, because if you let it get you down, you’re only hurting yourself really.

Bill Gasiamis 53:58
Yeah, it could be hard to get out of that situation, I do these podcasts and all these interviews, and at the beginning, especially when I first started, was to practice positivity and to try and share positive stories with people on the other side of the screen, because I also struggled to find, you know, to have those days where, where I got out of the negative cycle, you know, you haven’t gone to work for X amount of months.

Bill Gasiamis 54:26
You know, driving at the beginning, you know, people are picking you up, you’ve lost your independence, and it’s hard to stay positive, man, it’s really hard, and I used to try and have conversations about positive things so that I could forget about the negative stuff for a little bit while, and try and put the favor in the positive and in the gratitude part of it.

Polo Gomez 54:46
Yeah, no, like at first I couldn’t use I was like ‘Man, I got people wiping my butt, you know, that’s not cool. Grown man, wipe my dad, grown man, wiping my butt. Like, man, this ain’t cool, you know. But then I’ll, then I look at a different point of view, I’m like, man, well, I’m grateful that I have somebody to clean my butt and not, you know, be sitting there, you know, with pieces all over me. You know, it’s just but now that I can do it on my own, it’s a big deal for me.

Bill Gasiamis 55:18
Big deal, It’s a huge deal, and it’s also a big deal that somebody did that for you, isn’t it amazing that somebody actually did that for you after 38 years, you know, they’re wiping your butt again.

Polo Gomez 55:30
Yeah, my brother, is younger than me, and he would bathe me, and I’m, you know, at first, I was like ‘Man, this ain’t cool. But I was grateful to have them, to have that support and not leave me there for a couple days.

Bill Gasiamis 55:49
That’s love, that’s real support there, man, that’s like, unbelievable, that’s the best, I love it. What you’ve mentioned a few things already, but what has stroke taught you?

Polo Gomez 56:07
What do you mean?

Bill Gasiamis 56:08
Like what lessons have come out of stroke for you? I know you’ve already had a discussion where you’ve mentioned a few things, but like, what’s the one big takeaway from this whole experience? You know the one big lesson.

Polo Gomez 56:22
And like I said, to me knowledge to take care of myself, your health is should be your number one priority, don’t wait to go get a checkup, don’t, because you feel fine doesn’t mean you’re fine internally, go get checked out, now if I get a little headache or something, or if I feel something abnormal, I reach out to my doctor right away.

Polo Gomez 56:51
Hey, I got this going on, you know, I just don’t want, I don’t wait for nothing anymore, and I don’t plan on it anymore. It, you know, it’s just, that’s something I used to do. I have a little headache. I’m like ‘Ah, it’ll go away. I’ll pop some advil and that’s it, never thought my blood pressure was probably booming, you know?

Bill Gasiamis 57:10
Yeah, so there’s people like you and I listening to this now, kind of going through their own version of stroke and the recovery and all the challenges. What’s a little bit of wisdom you’d like to impart on them, or what do you want to tell them? What should they know about their experience?

Polo Gomez 57:30
Well, see another thing that happened with me is that was prior, a couple days prior to my stroke, I have a cousin that has the same age, he had a mini stroke, and after that, he’s like ‘Oh man, I’m done drinking, because we always, we all were our partners in crime I’m going to stop drinking. And it was crazy, I’m like ‘Oh man, come on, stop being a little wuss, you know. I didn’t, we didn’t think it was nothing crazy.

Polo Gomez 57:55
And then days later, I get mine, which one was a little bit more aggressive, but it’s just, I think the main thing, like, I tell my brother now I’m like ‘Hey, man, just take care of yourself, bud, don’t, leave them Red Bulls behind, because I’m telling you, Red Bulls don’t work, they’re just, it’s just a bad habit, it’s like a cigarette, it’s just a bad habit, you pick up and they’re not good for you.

Polo Gomez 58:20
I don’t even know why these people sell them, but my brother, he quit drinking Red Bulls one time we went to Texas and he picked one up because he was tired of the day. Don’t drink that, and he left it there, so he don’t drink Red Bulls no more, nobody does no more, really. Everybody’s around me is pretty much watching their watching taking care of more of their health now.

Bill Gasiamis 58:46
That’s a good outcome.

Polo Gomez 58:48
Yeah, everybody’s pretty much feeding off of it.

Bill Gasiamis 58:54
All I meant, I really appreciate you reaching out and connecting with me and also being on the podcast man, I love your attitude. I think your recovery is going to continue and you’re going to go far, and thanks for your time, and I just really enjoyed our conversation.

Polo Gomez 59:09
I appreciate the opportunity to appreciate the space on here.

Bill Gasiamis 59:14
Thanks for being on the podcast.

Polo Gomez 59:16
Yes, sir. I appreciate you.

Bill Gasiamis 59:19
Well. That wraps up another episode of the recovery after stroke podcast. I hope you found Polo’s story inspiring, as I did, from dealing with the sudden onset of hemorrhagic stroke to regaining his mobility and tackling the physical and emotional challenges of recovery, Polo’s resilience and determination are truly remarkable. If Polo’s story resonated with you, or if you have someone in your life who’s going through recovery, please share this episode with them, it could encourage them further.

Bill Gasiamis 59:52
A big thank you to everyone who has taken the time to leave a review on iTunes and Spotify this is very much appreciated. It is really important as it helps the podcast be found by other stroke survivors who are looking for this type of content. Your feedback not only helps others find the show, but it also provides a boost to stroke survivors who are looking for hope and practical advice.

Bill Gasiamis 1:00:17
If you haven’t already, please consider leaving a five-star review or subscribing on YouTube, where you can like comment and stay updated on new episodes. If you’d like to support the podcast further, head over to patreon.com/recoveryafterstroke, your contribution helps the show run and ensures we can continue bringing these important stories to stroke survivors around the world.

Bill Gasiamis 1:00:43
Finally, if you have a product or service related to stroke recovery or would like to share your story on the show, I’d love to hear from you, simply visit recoveryafterstroke.com/contact, and get in touch. Thanks for joining me today, and I’ll see you on the next episode.

Intro 1:01:01
Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals. Opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast are the individual’s own experience, and we do not necessarily share the same opinion, nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed, all content on this website, at any linked blog, podcast or video material controlled this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only, and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis.

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