In this episode, Oren Cass is joined by Dr. Matthew Mehan, associate dean of Hillsdale College’s Graduate School of Government, to discuss conservatism in our secular age, based on Oren’s First Things lecture earlier this year.

The two go long on conservative morality, from the role of religion in conservatism to the wisdom of the Roman philosopher Cicero and the “most pernicious doctrine” of advancing an immoral argument for its political utility. And they unpack how it all intersects with America’s declining religiosity and modern politics, from economics, to tech, and more.

For more, read in First Things, “Constructing Conservatism."