Note: This episode is not graphic but it does cover a sensitive topic you might not be ready for little ears that may be around to hear.

⁠>> Click HERE to get free visuals, handouts and discussion questions for Conversational Counseling sent straight to your email! << (If you've already signed up for our email list, you'll receive them at each release.)

In this episode Marnie Ferree shares about the betrayal of a spouse, having herself been the betrayer and then decades into her marriage finding out that she had been betrayed. Marnie shares her story from her childhood up until just a couple of years ago with honesty and great hope, and in a way that is applicable to each of us since in some ways we’ve all experienced betrayal, feeling stuck or unsure about our worth.

Marnie shares as a woman who is marvelously redeemed from unbelievable amounts of pain, who is grateful for the journey because of all that God has done and continues to do. And although not always pleasant, she encourages us that our journey with God can always be healing.

Bethesda Workshops

Marnie’s Books

Forgiveness Season of Conversational Counseling

To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this podcast click ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

This podcast is made possible by engineer and producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Known Ministries⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne. Season six of Conversational Counseling is all about equipping you with specific knowledge and skills from special guests who have unique experience and expertise to help with harder issues you might encounter.

We are SO thrilled to share this bonus episode with you!! Our colleague and quickly becoming dear friend, Shauna Van Dyke, is the Executive Director at the Association of Biblical Counselors (ABC).

Shauna has an amazing heart to equip believers for the work of ministry as she sincerely believes we are all called to care. That every single one of us can live out the "one anothers" in our daily lives. And she is an amazing champion and cheerleader of what the Lord is doing in and through others!

She offers a sincere and tender encouragement for any of us who feels isolated and alone in our calling... and if we're honest, that's each of us at some point! So we can not be discouraged if we are the only one who is leaning in... to consider it a great gift.

If you're looking to be reminded that you are not entirely alone, to learn, be enriched, challenged and encouraged in your own walk with the Lord but also as you walk with others, there's still time to register for the ABC conference coming up April 25-27, 2024. They have in-person and virtual options available! We're going to be there and would love to meet up with any of you who will be as well!

Called to Counsel, ABC's conference April 25-27, 2024 in Fort Worth ,TX

Shauna's Truth Renewed Ministry website

ABC's website: christiancounseling.com

Equipped to Counsel by John Henderson

Instruments in the Redeemer's Hands by Paul David Tripp

"Superpowers" (S1 E2) of Conversational Counseling

Our Real Life Discipleship Counseling Class (which Shauna so graciously recommends)

"Tim Challies: A Story of Immeasurable Suffering and Incomparable Hope" (S5 E8) of Conversational Counseling

ABC's Resources (even more available in their member area!)

CCEF's conference Oct 4-6, 2024 in Chattanooga, TN

Follow on social media:

- ABC on Facebook - ⁠Truth Renewed Ministries Facebook⁠

- ABC on Instagram - Truth Renewed on Instagram

To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this podcast click⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

This podcast is made possible by engineer and producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Known Ministries⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne.

Note: This episode is particularly one mother sharing her story, but this episode will not merely benefit moms. We think the principles we talk about apply to anyone whose world has been turned upside down and is facing depression. We hope you enjoy…

⁠>> Click HERE to get free visuals, handouts and discussion questions for Conversational Counseling sent straight to your email! << (If you've already signed up for our email list, you'll receive them at each release.)

Season six of Conversational Counseling is all about equipping you with specific knowledge and skills from special guests who have unique experience and expertise to help with harder issues you might encounter.

Sharing about depression is vulnerable, especially when it involves being put in a mental institution not once, but twice… Christine Chappell so compassionately and bravely shares her story of facing depression hoping to remove the stigma. Hoping to help us all walk with compassion with others as long as it takes for us to know that darkness doesn’t have the last say… No matter how long it takes.

Christine also shares some really helpful insight to help us understand what is a common struggle verses what is a serious struggle that is dangerous.

We hope you feel relief as you realize that you do not have to bear the burden of trying to suffer in this broken world perfectly. And we hope that we all are encouraged to be a manifestation of Jesus in the flesh to those around us.

Christine’s website

Midnight Mercies: Walking with God through Depression in Motherhood by Christine Chappell

Motherhood: Hope for Discouraged Moms by Brenda Payne

Spurgeon’s Sorrows: Realistic Hope for those who Suffer from Depression by Zack Eswine

⁠Our class on Lament⁠, that is a free gift to you.

Christine Chappell’s, Hope + Help Podcast

Follow Christine on social media: Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube

To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this podcast click ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

This podcast is made possible by engineer and producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Known Ministries⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne. This sixth season of Conversational Counseling is a series designed to give you help with harder issues you might encounter.

>> Click HERE to get free visuals, handouts and discussion questions for Conversational Counseling sent straight to your email! <<⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠(If you've already signed up for our email list, you'll receive them at each release.)

We’re honored to share time here together with Tim Challies. Tim’s firstborn and only son, Nick, died at college in 2020 after suddenly collapsing while playing a game and there is no diagnosis still to this day.

When we look on at the suffering of others, it’s so easy to feel the weight and think we could never make it through something similar ourselves. But one thing Tim so graciously reminds us is that none of us have the grace to walk through things until we’re in the moment. We tend to imagine the grief but not the grace.

Tim takes our hand and leads us through a “Manifesto” he wrote as a means to cry out to the Lord and call himself back to what was most important in the depths of his grief. Step by step, he walks us through. And maybe, just maybe, it might give you words or a template to fill in your own words, for your own seasons of grief.

Here is Tim’s website where he has been blogging since 2003.

Seasons of Sorrow By: Tim Challies

Connect with Tim via social on Facebook, X (Twitter), Instagram, and Threads.

Some additional resources mentioned in this episode were the John Piper biographies and Joni Eareckson Tada’s work.

Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

This podcast is made possible by engineers and producers ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Zachary Tate Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Known Ministries⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne. Thank you for listening to our fifth season of Conversational Counseling about suffering.

There are times when we just can’t see a way out. When all hope really does seem lost. Even very committed Christians can face very, very dark times. Oftentimes we’re afraid to talk about emotions, especially big emotions, that come with suffering seasons. 

In our process of lament, there are times when all we can do is protest. But it’s so helpful to remember that when we protest, we’re still oriented towards God. We’re talking to Him. We can be encouraged that God knows how we speak when we’re desperate and He’s not surprised by our emotions or our desperation. We may have strong passions, but we can still have strong faith. In our protest to God we find so often that it leads us to a point of surrender because we learn that we are fully known and fully loved in the midst of our messiness and desperation. God is not afraid of your big emotions. You’re not too much… even if you’re afraid you are.

Doing a protest journal is a practical tool we’ll walk you through that can help you reach down into the raw emotions of those trials and lay it all out before Him… And it can involve fire, so you don’t want to miss it!

This podcast is made possible by engineers and producers ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Zachary Tate Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Known Ministries⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne. Thank you for listening to our fifth season of Conversational Counseling about suffering.

>> Click HERE to get free visuals, handouts and discussion questions for Conversational Counseling sent straight to your email! <<⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠(If you've already signed up for our email list, you'll receive them at each release.)

Although accepting comfort can be difficult, comfort has the ability to change us in a way conviction and encouragement sometimes cannot. As we accept comfort walking through our suffering we will also learn to comfort others in their seasons of suffering. We learn how to weep with those who weep, and how to be sensitive as we comfort those who are still in tender places. We can be encouraged that we don't need to be at the end of our story in order to be useful! We can be honest that we are still wrestling and haven’t reached the “happily ever after” while also reminding ourselves and others of who God is and what He has promised.

To listen to the Show Up, Shut Up, Speak Up episode click here.

For the Real Life Discipleship Class click here.

Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

This podcast is made possible by engineers and producers ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Zachary Tate Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Known Ministries⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne. Thank you for listening to our fifth season of Conversational Counseling about suffering.

God, what good can come of all of this suffering? What are you doing in it? How long until it’s over?

These are questions we have probably all asked ourselves at one point or another in seasons of suffering. In this conversation we are reminded about some important truths about God in our hardest seasons. Although we want to see His plan and purposes in the now, we don’t always know the overarching ways He is working. We might be able to see a few ways He is working in this season, but He is also working in a thousand ways we can’t. Those thousand ways might not be clear today or on this side of eternity, but He is still weaving them into His big picture. 

In this conversation we are also reminded that when we have known and received His comfort in times of suffering we are able to pass it on to others. There is a sweetness in your suffering that you will not gain any other way, and to be able to share the comfort of Christ we have been given can be a precious gift to someone in their own season of suffering. 

We all know people who have suffered profoundly and now they walk with Jesus deeply. We can hold on to hope that one day we will be able to tell our story without pain and shame, solely to put the glory of Christ on display. Until that day, we can continue to run to God in our suffering and trust that He sees us, hears us, and is near to us in it all.

Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

This podcast is made possible by engineers and producers ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Zachary Tate Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Known Ministries⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne. Thank you for listening to our fifth season of Conversational Counseling about suffering.

This episode was originally recorded as part of our Real Life Discipleship Counseling class in 2021. You might notice slight differences in the audio quality, but it fits in perfectly with this season’s theme of suffering. It has been a fruitful teaching for so many and we wanted to share it will you here. We hope it bring you and hope and help wherever you are today.

For the personal lament handout click here.

Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

This podcast is made possible by engineers and producers ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Zachary Tate Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Known Ministries⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne. Thank you for listening to our fifth season of Conversational Counseling about suffering.

>> Click HERE to get free visuals, handouts and discussion questions for Conversational Counseling sent straight to your email! <<⁠ ⁠(If you've already signed up for our email list, you'll receive them at each release.)

In our conversation this episode, we get to hear from Carol Collier who walked the horrific journey of watching her husband die of ALS. And not too long after, she suddenly lost her seemingly perfectly healthy adult daughter to covid. At the end of all interventions in both lives she dearly loved, she stood at the edge of the bed with the person she loved dying and struggling to breathe.

In these hardships, she grew to know in the depths of her being that it wasn’t about her grip on the Lord but it was all about His grip on her. From this place of security, she has embraced lament. 

Carol considers herself a student of lament. She calls lament one of her life’s companions.

So often, we don’t connect lament with an act of faith. But really it’s moving towards God, because we’re talking to Him. The reality of lament, is that we’re saying what is true… that we were not made for death and decay and pain. So we are ultimately agreeing with God.

Resource: Lectio 365 App

Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

This podcast is made possible by engineers and producers ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Zachary Tate Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Known Ministries⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne. Thank you for listening to our fifth season of Conversational Counseling about suffering.

>> Click HERE to get free visuals, handouts and discussion questions for Conversational Counseling sent straight to your email! <<⁠ (If you've already signed up for our email list, you'll receive them at each release.)

The general question of why there is suffering in the world is hard enough to wrestle with. But so often, our theoretical questions really spring from a place in our own lives, or the lives of those we love, that has been touched by suffering. There is no doubt that pain tests our faith.

But we want to encourage you that wrestling with God as a believer is not necessarily a sign of unbelief but it’s really a sign of desperate faith. Because you're turning to Him, to engage! To seek Him.

And slowly we can find that our questions of "Where were You, God?" turn to "Who are You, God?" And we get to know Him more richly and deeply.

Resources:

Season 1, Episode 5 / "Character of God: Sovereignty, Wisdom and Love"

Triangle Handout: Love, Wisdom, Control

"Trust His Heart" by Babbie Mason

To sign up for free visuals and discussion questions for this season click ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. (If you've already signed up for our email list, you'll receive them at each release already.)

Our theme music is by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠As Isaac⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

This podcast is made possible by engineers and producers ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Zachary Tate Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shane Selby⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, executive producer ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Meleah Smith⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠generous donors⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Known Ministries⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Alex Kocher⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and Brenda Payne.