Donald Trump is pushing ahead with his protectionist agenda, and possibly with good reason. There were over 17 million manufacturing jobs in the US in 2000, in the 10 years that followed, China joined the WTO and the US lost about a third of those jobs.  In this edition of the Debunking Economics podcast Phil Dobbie asks Steve Keen whether protectionism is valid in this day and age. What of the conventional philosophy that trying to do everything locally avoids economies of scale and pushes prices up for everyone? Steve’s argument, you need a complex economy to produce efficiency and innovation. It’s the lack of protectionism that has stymied growth in many economies. But there are exceptions, especially for an Elon Musk fan boy like Steve!

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Furloughed workers, self-employed grant schemes, increased unemployment benefits, low interest loans, quantitative easing – governments and central banks are pulling out all the stops to try and offset the economic consequences of COVID-19. So who is doing it well? Phil Dobbie asks Prof Steve Keen to evaluate some of the programs implemented around the world – which ones are effective, which help the finance sector but do little for the broader population, and is there enough of it given the size of the impact? Governments are now trying to pull back on stimulus programs, even though infections continue and unemployment is in danger of rising still higher? Will we have learnt anything at the end of this experience about how the economy really works?

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The world is facing the greatest economic downturn of our time. In the US at least 15 million more people are unemployed than just a few months ago. There are fears of a second wave and, even if it is contained and a cure is found, the chief scientist at the World Health Organisation is now saying it could take up to five years to get the virus under control. Meanwhile, as governments inject trillions of dollars of stimulus into the economy, share prices are reaching all-time highs. How can that be? How can the markets behave as though we were in the midst of the best of times? Phil Dobbie talks to Prof Steve Keen about what’s really driving share prices ever upwards.

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The US might not be in a great place right now, with the riots, a narcissistic president and the COVID-19 virus taking a long time to slow down, yet, for generations it has been the country the world looks to for opportunity and innovation.  Look at almost all the world’s newest big companies – Microsoft, Apple, Google, Twitter, Tesla – and they all hail from America. It claims a huge proportion of the world’s inventions and innovations. On that basis, shouldn’t we still be looking up to America? What is it they are doing that the rest of us are not?

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Mental health is an issue that impacts a growing number of people, not helped by the COVID 19 lockdown. Divya Dhami, an undergraduate student from the University of British Columbia, says the economy is paying for it in terms of reduced productivity. Money investied in fixing the problem would be recovered through increased GDP. But isn’t GDP part of the problem? Phil Dobbie asks whether the wellbeing index is a better measure of government success? Steve Keen suggests debt is a significant part of the problem – in the good old days students went to university to learn and it was a relaxing experience. But there are behavioural issues too – like addiction. Just how far do we want the state to intervene?