Decoding the Gurus

By Christopher Kavanagh and Matthew Browne

An exiled Northern Irish anthropologist and a hitchhiking Australian psychologist take a close look at the contemporary crop of 'secular gurus', iconoclasts, and other exiles from the mainstream, offe... more

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The podcast currently has 264 episodes available.

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Number 1: Jimmy Carr & Joe Rogan: The Jester & the Khan
Joe Rogan, the Great Khan of podcasting, is once again receiving a travelling jester at court. This time it is Jimmy Carr who arrives bearing gifts: pop evolutionary psychology, dubious history factoids, conservative "common sense", and an apparently bottomless appetite for telling Joe just how important he is. After listening to their three-hour conversation(!), we conclude there is nothing much of note beyond serving as a nice demonstration of popular "alternative" podcasting in 2026. What you get is a medley of sycophantic praise; regurgitated pop science and historical factoids; right-wing political positions presented as basic common sense; and shocked reactions to pseudo profundity and mundane observations. Along the way, you will also thrill as you learn Rogan and Carr's takes on motherhood, feminism, work ethic, astrology, religion, taxation, vaccines, human evolution, the Black Death, and stand-up comedy. As for Jimmy Carr himself, well, according to us: he's a very much your standard middle-aged conservative British person who happens to be a comedian. Rogan's level of crankery makes Jimmy look moderate by comparison, but as we know that's a very low bar. LinksJimmy Carr on The Joe Rogan Experience (2326)Jimmy Carr on Modern Wisdom #953Schulz, J. F., Bahrami-Rad, D., Beauchamp, J. P., & Henrich, J. (2019). The Church, intensive kinship, and global psychological variation. Science, 366(6466), eaau5141. https://doi.org/10.1126/science.aau5141Robinson D. The Black Death and Clerical Prospects in England. In: Bothwell J, Hamilton JS, eds. Fourteenth Century England XII. Fourteenth Century England. Boydell & Brewer; 2022:129-150. https://doi.org/10.1017/9781800105904.008Xu, X., & Barrett, P. M. (2025). The origin and early evolution of feathers: implications, uncertainties and future prospects. Biology Letters, 21(2), 20240517. https://doi.org/10.1098/rsbl.2024.0517
August 17, 20262h 55min
Number 2: Lab Leak Groundhog Day: COVID Origins in 2026 with Worobey, Andersen, and Holmes
With the Trump administration’s newest political persecution of Anthony Fauci and three years after our first lab-leak special, now seemed like a useful time to return to the topic. Fortunately, you do not have to rely on our knowledge of viruses, as we have somehow managed to convince the same three esteemed virologists, Eddie Holmes, Kristian Andersen and Michael Worobey, to come back for an update. Mike, Kristian and Eddie return and offer us their read on where the scientific evidence on COVID’s origins stands in 2026. They take us through the main lines of evidence and the often overlooked role of the wildlife trade, explaining why the lab-leak story remains so appealing, and how their own assessments have shifted as more evidence has emerged. We also discuss the standard claim that the media suppressed the lab-leak narrative while noting that coverage across both alternative and mainstream outlets remains heavily skewed towards it (and almost entirely detached from the research literature). Finally, we end on a characteristically positive note by discussing the Trump administration’s attacks on science and the ongoing campaigns against high-profile scientists and public health figures. Our guests describe their experience of committing the heinous offence of following the scientific evidence and arriving at conclusions that contradict the preferred views of polemical politicians and prominent media pundits. In short, this episode is our modest attempt to drag the topic back towards the science, while also focusing on the price paid by the people who actually conduct the research and care about the evidence. We are not neutral when it comes to the ongoing attacks on science and scientists and do not pretend to be. LinksOur guests: Michael Worobey, Kristian Andersen, and Eddie HolmesOur previous interview with Worobey, Andersen and HolmesLab Leak Fever with Philipp MarkolinOur earlier interview with Stuart Neil on SARS-CoV-2Sam Harris, Alina Chan and Matt Ridley: Did SARS-CoV-2 Escape from a Lab?Bad Boy of Science: Is the COVID Lab Leak Hypothesis Dead?Kristian Andersen on his early emails, released messages and changing assessmentKristian Andersen’s congressional testimony and document collectionKristian’s thread responding to the use of his Slack messagesMichael Worobey on why his assessment changedWHO SAGO’s 2025 assessment of the origins evidenceThe July 2026 Senate release of the Slack messagesKevin Drum’s reading of the earlier Slack archiveThe current White House lab-leak pageThe July 2026 Fauci hearingNaomi Oreskes on scientific integrity and “ethical pessimism”Nature: Climate scientists report online attacksAlwine et al. on the harms to scientists, research and pandemic preparedness Relevant research papers and reviewsAndersen, K. G., Rambaut, A., Lipkin, W. I., Holmes, E. C., & Garry, R. F. (2020). The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2. Nature Medicine, 26(4), 450–452.Crits-Christoph, A., Levy, J. I., Pekar, J. E., et al. (2024). Genetic tracing of market wildlife and viruses at the epicenter of the COVID-19 pandemic. Cell, 187(19), 5468–5482.Holmes, E. C. (2024). The emergence and evolution of SARS-CoV-2. Annual Review of Virology, 11(1), 21–42.Liu, W. J., Liu, P., Lei, W., et al. (2023). Surveillance of SARS-CoV-2 at the Huanan Seafood Market. Nature, 631(8020), 402–408.Pekar, J. E., Magee, A., Parker, E., et al. (2022). The molecular epidemiology of multiple zoonotic origins of SARS-CoV-2. Science, 377(6609), 960–966.Pekar, J. E., Moshiri, N., Lemey, P., et al. (2025). Recently reported SARS-CoV-2 genomes suggested to be intermediate between the two early main lineages are instead likely derived. Virus Evolution, 11(1).Pekar, J. E., Lytras, S., Ghafari, M., et al. (2025). The recency and geographical origins of the bat viruses ancestral to SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV-2. Cell, 188(12), 3167–3183.Temmam, S., Vongphayloth, K., Baquero, E., et al. (2022). Bat coronaviruses related to SARS-CoV-2 and infectious for human cells. Nature, 604(7905), 330–336.Worobey, M., Levy, J. I., Malpica Serrano, L., et al. (2022). The Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan was the early epicenter of the COVID-19 pandemic. Science, 377(6609), 951–959.Xiao, X., Newman, C., Buesching, C. D., Macdonald, D. W., & Zhou, Z.-M. (2021). Animal sales from Wuhan wet markets immediately prior to the COVID-19 pandemic. Scientific Reports, 11(1).Zhou, H., Ji, J., Chen, X., et al. (2021). Identification of novel bat coronaviruses sheds light on the evolutionary origins of SARS-CoV-2 and related viruses. Cell, 184(17), 4380–4391. Broader assessments and contextAckerman, G., Behlendorf, B., Baum, S., Peterson, H., Wetzel, A., & Halstead, J. (2024). The origin and implications of the COVID-19 pandemic: An expert survey (Technical Report 24-1). Global Catastrophic Risk Institute.Alwine, J., Goodrum, F., Banfield, B., et al. (2024). The harms of promoting the lab leak hypothesis for SARS-CoV-2 origins without evidence. Journal of Virology, 98(9).World Health Organization. (2025). Independent assessment of the origins of SARS-CoV-2 from the Scientific Advisory Group for the Origins of Novel Pathogens.Venter, M., Manuguerra, J.-C., Watson, J. M., et al. (2026). COVID’s origins: What we do and don’t know. Nature, 650(8103), 829–833.
August 10, 20261h 45min
Number 3: Mel Robbins, Part 1: The Hard Science of Manifestation
Are you tired, stuck, or inconveniently constrained by reality? Good news: you may simply be imagining the wrong one. In Part One of our decoding of Mel Robbins, we explore the world of a self-help mogul who is also just a simple mother of three in Vermont hosting a little ol' podcast with a HUGE global impact. Together with Cassandra Vieten, a psychologist who is (apparently) one of the world's leading researchers on imagination and consciousness, Mel explains how to begin to stop reacting and start imagining, visualising, and manifesting the life you truly deserve. This will lead to self-actualised transcendence through a variety of simple-to-implement techniques. But don't worry, the universe has also put in safeguards: manifestation only works if you use it for good, such as empowering your authentic self. So please manifest enthusiastically without any concern. In the episode, you will learn about the delicate art of rebranding common sense into complex (proprietary) theories and be shocked to discover that mystical intuitions are a core component of any fully holistic scientific research. Mel's HUGE media business, meanwhile, manifests itself as an intimate personal friendship with each of her millions of listeners. Expect the usual decorative scholarship, a new Five Second Rule and insights into how to Let Them and Let You, reality tunnels, obstacle courses, a thousand supportive women, lighthouses, tapestries, and the therapeutic potential of fire-breathing dragons. All of it is very hard science, as they repeatedly remind us. Chris and Matt attempt throughout to give the self-help genre a fair-minded assessment. They even concede that wearing colourful socks and being a bit less miserable are probably harmless, but ultimately their dark reductionist souls are beyond salvation. Part Two is coming next week. In the meantime, try to visualise it clearly, align your energy, and not to put one foot on the brake as you hit the download button. LinksThe Mel Robbins Podcast: “World Leading Psychologist: How to Manifest Anything & Create the Life You Want” with Dr Cassandra VietenA Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein: “The Mel Robbins Griftpocalypse” with Princess Weekes and Kat TenbargeCBS News: Extended Interview with Mel RobbinsThe Mel Robbins Podcast: “Try It for 1 Week: 6 Small Ways to Bring Back the Happiness, Energy, and Fun”The New York Times: “Mel Schneeberger and Chris Robbins” by Lois Smith BradyUC San Diego profile: Cassandra Vieten, PhD
August 25, 20262h 5min
Number 4: Supplementary Material 54: Solarpunk Pecan Pie, Northern Irish Sushi, & the Discourse Meat Grinder
We return from our holidays with an indulgent episode that starts light and ends up very dark as we turn to the unavoidable Jason Arday discourse. The full episode is available to Patreon subscribers (Full Episode: 1hr 40 mins) Join us at: https://www.patreon.com/DecodingTheGurus Supplementary Material 54 00:00 Pecan Pie Introduction 04:10 Solar Punk Matt 08:17 Ireland Trip Report 15:24 Australian Burger Culture 17:32 Manga Cafe Experiments 24:10 Joe Rogan on AI Remote Viewing 29:14 Parapsychology as a Research Field 34:07 A One Man University Level Course in Bad Thinking 36:58 The Young Info Turks 40:53 More Credulity with Ryan Grim over Fauci 42:14 Richard Ebright, Warning Signs, and Radicalisation Spirals 48:28 Vinay Prasad jumping on the Anti-Fauci wagon for the Free Press 52:31 The Jason Arday Affair 54:28 The Surrounding Context 58:18 Polemical Discourse Waves 01:05:22 The Guru Factor 01:08:25 A Realistic View of Universities as Imperfect Institutions 01:12:17 Elite Prestige Bias 01:21:33 Culture War Distortions 01:25:04 The Ethics of Critical Journalism 01:29:50 Inconsistent Standards 01:38:36 Outro LinksThe Jack Nicholson Story from the Always Sunny PodcastThe Manga Cafes in QuestionDeposition of InfoWars Host Owen ShroyerAlex Jones And Roger Stone Interrupt The Young Turks Republican National Convention CoverageKen Klippenstein visits the War RoomAna Kasparian & Owen Shroyer: The UNEXPECTED Conversation on MAGA, DSA & the Uniparty!Bret Weinstein on InfoWarsRichard Ebright on one of his many Twitter spiralsJoe Rogan on AI Remote ViewingThe Free Press: Vinay Prasad- Anthony Fauci’s Vaccine DeceptionsRyan Grim being credulous over Fauci and VaccinesThe Guardian: Playbooks, plagiarism and a pig’s head: new claims surrounding a star Cambridge professor (Lanre Bakare)The Atlantic: The Jason Arday Truthers (Helen Lewis)Front Left: It sure looks like Jason Arday was horrifically wronged (based on citation data) (Jason Stanley)A Digital Lynching (Carol Cadwalladr)Tox Report: The Most Unfortunate Thing (Sarah Ditum)Byline Times: The Peter Thiel-Linked Race Science Network that Penetrated Cambridge University and Targeted Jason Arday (Nafeez Ahmed)The Good Law Project: Stand in Solidarity with Jason ArdayAmnesty UK supporting “Arday’s Law”Simon Baron Cohen on BBC 4 Today talking about Jason ArdayNYT: A Top Scholar’s Fall Shows That Universities Don’t Get ItNYT: Professor’s Death Leaves Behind Hard Questions for Cambridge on Race and HiringThe Emancipator: The Media Lynched Kason Arday (Ibram X. Kendi)Gideon M.K.: The Jason Arday Saga Is Terrible And Everyone Involved Should Be Ashamed Of ThemselvesWays to Change the World with Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Cambridge’s youngest Black professor Jason Arday on Autism, racism, and learning to read at 18Open (supporting) letter on the suspension of Nathan Cofnas at Ghent UniversityBoard Member of Ghent University (Dries Bostyn) discussing the disciplinary case on TwitterNumb at the Lodge: The Carrion-Eaters (Sam Kriss)The Chronicle of Higher Education: Jason Arday & Me (Musa al-Gharbi)US Ambassador applies pressure to Ghent UniversityNathan Cofnas thanks the US Ambassador for interveningAcademia is Doing Fine, Actually (Nicholas Decker)Eric Turkheimer substack on Nathan Cofnas' viewsSasha Gusev thread on Nathan Cofnas' views
August 28, 202642min
Number 5: Gurometer Triple Threat: Professor Jiang, Mel Robbins & Jimmy Carr *Patreon Preview*
The rumours of the Gurometer's demise have been greatly exaggerated. We were simply collecting enough gurus to feed three into the sacred instrument at once. In this special Triple Threat edition, Professor Jiang brings angel-informed psychohistory, Jimmy Carr brings a head full of dubious historical factoids, and Mel Robbins just desperately wants to help you (for a price). Three potential gurus, eleven characteristics, and a brief disagreement over the nature of data. Let the highly rigorous scoring commence! Also... think you can do better? Rate Jiang, Mel, Jimmy, or any of the other gurus on our online Gurometer and compare your scores with ours. Ideally, do it before listening, lest Matt declare your numbers inadmissible. https://decoding-the-gurus-gurometer.netlify.app/
September 14, 20261h