Dental Leaders Podcast

Kathryn Bell was seventeen, six months into a school exchange trip to Kentucky, when a minor car crash jolted loose a brain tumour nobody knew was there. She joins Payman as a general dentist at Colosseum Dental in Chippenham and the group's key opinion leader for facial aesthetics, having spent over two decades qualified after a start to adult life that involved an emergency craniotomy, a coma, meningitis and hydrocephalus, largely without her parents in the room.

She talks with real clarity about survivor's guilt, about repeating a year at school rather than falling behind her friends, and about the internal motivation that got her through GCSEs with headaches nobody could explain, years before anyone found the tumour causing them. There's a second, quieter story running alongside it too: a burnout so complete she couldn't get out of bed most mornings on the NHS, and the daughter whose birth, entirely by coincidence, pulled her out of it just in time.

Kathryn also gets specific about the actual craft of facial aesthetics: polynucleotides, why subtlety beats a dramatic result every time, and the patient with suspected body dysmorphia who brought her own fifty-times magnifying mirror to a review appointment.

In This Episode

00:00:45 – Introduction

00:01:45 – The brain tumour story

00:17:40 – Survivor's guilt

00:20:25 – Choosing dentistry

00:22:45 – Losing time at school

00:28:30 – Master's in aesthetic medicine

00:31:05 – Social media and dysmorphia

00:33:00 – Introducing facial aesthetics

00:40:00 – Skin treatments vs injectables

00:45:30 – A facial aesthetics mistake

00:56:20 – Women in dentistry

01:02:50 – A career mistake

01:09:55 – Burnout on the NHS

01:14:30 – Best lecture: Callum Youngson

01:19:35 – Fantasy dinner party

About Kathryn Bell

Kathryn Bell is a general dentist at Colosseum Dental in Chippenham and the group's key opinion leader for facial aesthetics across its 80 practices. She holds an MSc in Aesthetic Medicine, researching how social media shapes aesthetic patients' self-perception, and survived a brain haemorrhage and tumour removal at the age of seventeen.

Dipali Dalia wanted to be a barrister at fourteen, became a periodontist instead, and then went back and trained as a barrister anyway, in her forties, while still practising three days a week. She joins Payman as a specialist periodontist at Emsworth Specialist Practice near Portsmouth, having qualified as a dentist, specialised in periodontics at Guy's, and then, nearly two decades into a successful referral practice, gone back to college to sit alongside twenty-somethings doing a law conversion course.

She's honest about why the second career never quite happened. A scholarship from an Inn of Court, a year of criminal law that suited her better than the dry civil procedure rules, county court advocacy work to build experience, and still no pupillage by the time her father died of dementia at the end of a long, hardworking life. That loss changed everything, and Dipali talks with real clarity about the Hindu philosophy she leaned on afterwards, focused on the action rather than the outcome, and about coming back to periodontics with a settledness she didn't have before.

Anyone considering the same leap gets something to work with too: referral relationships, the loneliness of the bar versus the immediacy of a dental chair, and Dipali's own conclusion that failure is better read as a redirect than a verdict on your worth.

In This Episode

00:00:50 – Introduction

00:01:56 – Choosing dentistry over law

00:14:53 – Maxillofacial training

00:17:57 – Deciding to specialise

00:24:52 – Becoming a periodontist

00:28:12 – Referral relationships

00:34:47 – Peri-implantitis management

00:46:31 – The itch to become a barrister

00:52:17 – Training as a barrister in her 40s

01:00:17 – Comparing dentistry and law

01:10:27 – Losing her dad

01:17:56 – Failure as redirection

01:22:20 – A happier periodontist now

01:29:23 – Fantasy dinner party

01:38:08 – Women in dentistry and law

About Dipali Dalia

Dipali Dalia is a specialist periodontist at Emsworth Specialist Practice near Portsmouth, having trained at Guy's after an early spell in maxillofacial surgery. In her forties, she trained part-time as a barrister, completing a law conversion course and the bar course while continuing to practise periodontics, before returning to dentistry full-time.

Bizhan Shokouhi didn't set out to be an oral surgeon, or even to specialise at all. He joins Payman as a specialist oral surgeon and implantologist working across private practice and Guy's Hospital, and teaching on the Bristol MSc in Implants, having spent his first year qualified convinced he'd end up a restorative dentist.

He talks openly about the one thing he tells every trainee before they touch an implant, which has nothing to do with surgery and everything to do with communication, and about a denture case that took twenty-odd visits over eighteen months before he admitted defeat and referred it on. There's a genuinely reflective stretch on ambition too: Bizhan's own answer to whether he'd want his own practice is a flat no, and his reasoning, built around contentment rather than potential, runs against almost everything you'd expect from someone this good at his job.

Along the way, there's proper technical detail on soft tissue management, bone grafting, and why the first five minutes of a surgery matter more than anything that happens with a suture. And by the end, Payman more or less names the episode for him: was it worth it?

In This Episode

00:00:50 – Introduction

00:01:35 – A typical working week

00:04:20 – Becoming excellent

00:09:28 – Work-life balance

00:14:36 – Getting into implantology

00:21:00 – Communicating with patients

00:30:39 – Digital planning and AI

00:36:52 – Robots and the future

00:54:52 – Blackbox thinking

01:02:48 – Soft tissue lessons

01:05:11 – Building an Instagram following

01:12:04 – Mentors in implantology

01:14:44 – Why no practice of his own

01:19:59 – Best lecture: Martin Kelleher

01:22:36 – Fantasy dinner party

About Bizhan Shokouhi

Bizhan Shokouhi is a specialist oral surgeon and implantologist working in private practice and at Guy's Hospital, and a tutor on the Bristol MSc in Implants. He is known for his educational Instagram content on oral surgery and soft tissue management, and previously trained in restorative dentistry and maxillofacial surgery before specialising.

Anita Pradan pulled her car onto the hard shoulder of the motorway one day, cried, took her laptop out of the boot, and typed her resignation. She joins Payman as founder of Phoenix Dental Academy, having spent years running herself into the ground managing someone else's education business before deciding to build her own.

She talks openly about the exam that took her five years longer than expected, the practice interview where a principal offered her £1,500 a month and shouted at her for turning it down, and the gap between what overseas dentists post on Instagram and what they're actually going through once they arrive in the UK. There's a properly moving thread here about her father too, a maxillofacial surgeon who treated Nepal's royal family, and what it took for Anita to build something that was hers rather than his.

Along the way, Anita gets specific about which countries produce the best-prepared dentists, why crown preps are the one part of the ORE exam that actually matters, and the impression material disaster in her very first week that she still uses to teach students today.

In This Episode

00:01:05 – Introduction

00:01:30 – What the ORE involves

00:07:05 – Therapist-led routes into the GDC

00:10:55 – Exploitation and bad contracts

00:16:55 – Social media versus reality

00:19:30 – Building Phoenix Dental Academy

00:24:35 – Leaving a toxic workplace

00:32:15 – Growing up in her father's shadow

00:38:15 – Teaching hands-on courses

00:45:00 – The gap between passing and practising

00:52:25 – Ambition without a partner

00:57:20 – A typical week

00:59:00 – Which countries produce the best dentists

01:10:45 – Blackbox thinking

01:22:50 – Fantasy dinner party

About Anita Pradan

Anita Pradan is a Nepalese, Indian-trained dentist and founder of Phoenix Dental Academy, which prepares overseas dentists for the Overseas Registration Examination. She also teaches at the College of Medicine and Dentistry in Birmingham, part of Ulster University, and works one day a week as clinical lead for overseas clinicians within a dental group.

Ben Barter has never drilled a tooth in his life, but he's spent more time in dental events than most dentists. He joins Payman as co-founder of Dental Assembly, the latest venture in a career built entirely on getting corporates and suppliers into the same room, first at Open Rooms, then Dental Forum, and now running his own show.

In between, there's a properly strange detour: a price comparison app for beauty products, built with zero knowledge of beauty or technology, launched into a global pandemic, and later pitched successfully on Dragons Den. Ben talks candidly about what actually convinces an investor to back two people with no relevant experience, and the gut feeling he ignored right before a bus full of a hundred people failed to turn up in Dubai.

There's a decent amount of shop talk here too, on why fun is a business strategy rather than an afterthought, and why splitting an event by practice size might be the most underrated idea in dental networking right now.

In This Episode

00:00:45 – Introduction

00:01:00 – Life running dental events

00:09:45 – Getting into events

00:12:55 – Lessons from Open Rooms

00:15:45 – Starting Skin during Covid

00:21:15 – Going on Dragons Den

00:26:20 – Raising money for the first time

00:28:30 – Launching Dental Assembly

00:33:00 – Structuring the events

00:37:35 – Why fun matters

00:48:45 – Touchpoints beyond the event

00:50:55 – Blackbox thinking

01:01:45 – Favourite resource and book

01:04:40 – Fantasy dinner party

01:08:05 – Growing up and life outside events

About Ben Barter

Ben Barter is co-founder of Dental Assembly, an events business connecting dental groups with suppliers, and previously spent nine years at Open Rooms and Dental Forum. He also co-founded Skin, a price comparison app for beauty products that secured investment on Dragons Den, before returning to dental events full time.

Bashar Alturk has represented two countries at trampolining — Great Britain, then Jordan — and ruptured both his knees doing it, a year apart, once right before finals. He's also a final-year dental student at Leeds who bought his own phantom head and drill and set them up in his student room because the university wouldn't give him enough practice time.

His ADHD diagnosis came late on purpose. His mum spotted it in primary school and refused to let it be labelled, worried about what that label would do to him; he didn't get assessed properly until Covid forced the question. He now credits the delay with making him work harder rather than lean on an excuse.

There's a loupes business in here too, run out of that same student room, undercutting the market on price until his own dental school shut it down over a GDC conduct issue. And there's a longer, harder conversation about faith: what he actually believes about suffering and reasons, tested properly the first time his knee gave out weeks before an Olympic cycle.

Payman keeps circling one question throughout: what happens when you take the "sink or swim" mentality that built an Olympic athlete and try to run a dental career on it too.

In This Episode

00:00:50 – Introduction

00:02:10 – Growing up in Manchester

00:06:40 – Getting into trampolining

00:11:53 – ADHD diagnosis

00:18:35 – Injuries and setbacks

00:33:00 – Sacrifice and family

00:41:52 – Faith and meaning

00:46:25 – The phantom head

00:48:28 – The loupes business

01:02:41 – Delegation

01:11:56 – Wanting to be known

01:19:36 – Choosing a path

01:20:41 – Blackbox thinking

01:29:47 – Fantasy dinner party

01:36:57 – Post-competition blues

About Bashar Alturk

Bashar Alturk is a final-year dental student at the University of Leeds and an Olympic-level trampolinist, having represented both Great Britain and Jordan internationally. Alongside his studies, he founded a student loupes company, served as president of his dental society, and helped organise one of the UK's largest undergraduate dental conferences.

Afzal Haque joins Payman as a specialist endodontist and owner of Stretford Road Dental Practice, along with its referral clinic M41 Indo, in South Manchester, having spent ten years as a general dentist before making the switch.

He talks candidly about hating endodontics as a young dentist, the wife who talked him into rotary instrumentation and then, years later, into selling their house to fund three years of specialist training in Liverpool. There's a properly moving stretch on the sacrifice that decision demanded of his young family, and on the culture of fear he encountered as an undergraduate that still shapes how he teaches today.

This is also a masterclass in referral dentistry: building trust with generalists, pricing endodontic treatment simply, and why the happiest dentists are the ones who communicate well rather than the ones who never make mistakes.

Expect sharp thinking on bioceramics, root canal myths, AI in the surgery, and a properly honest account of growing up as the only brown kid in his primary school class.

In This Episode

00:00:45 – Introduction

00:02:10 – Family background and choosing dentistry

00:13:30 – Falling into endodontics

00:15:50 – Selling the house for specialist training

00:22:55 – Why endo suits him better than general dentistry

00:28:25 – Building a referral-based practice

00:40:45 – Team, AI and running the practice

00:45:35 – Endo heroes and technique

00:59:15 – Bioceramics and modern materials

01:01:50 – Root canal myths and AI search

01:08:45 – Toxic teaching culture

01:15:50 – Specialist training and family sacrifice

01:24:05 – Blackbox thinking

01:35:25 – Robots and the future of dentistry

01:38:15 – Fantasy dinner party and growing up in Manchester

About Afzal Haque

Afzal Haque is a specialist endodontist and owner of Stretford Road Dental Practice and its referral clinic, M41 Indo, in South Manchester. He spent ten years as a general dentist before training as an endodontist at the University of Liverpool, and now also works as a senior lecturer at UCLan and as a specialist adviser for the CQC.

Patrycja Galonzka joins Payman as business manager at Aspire Smiles in Warwick, having worked her way up from trainee dental nurse to the top of the practice after moving to the UK from Poland at nineteen.

She talks candidly about the loss that pushed her to stay in the UK rather than go home, and how years spent as a barista and waitress taught her more about handling people than any qualification could. This is also a masterclass in practice culture: Patrycja walks through her own Caesar framework for running a team, why "anti-values" like blame and gossip do more damage than any missing policy, and why she'd rather build a team like a sports squad than a family.

Expect sharp, practical thinking on KPIs, AI in the day-to-day of a practice, and why taking the blame for everything that goes wrong might be the happiest way to lead.

In This Episode

00:00:50 – Introduction

00:01:50 – From Poland to dental nursing

00:09:00 – Ambition, patience and advice to her daughter

00:12:00 – Awards and ego

00:17:00 – Finding your why

00:19:00 – Anti-values and team culture

00:22:00 – The Caesar framework

00:35:00 – Empowerment and learning from mistakes

00:48:00 – KPIs that matter

00:52:00 – AI in the practice

01:01:00 – Robots and the future of dentistry

01:07:00 – Alternative business models

01:21:00 – Blackbox thinking

01:26:00 – Time management, boundaries and the five-year vision

About Patrycja Galonzka

Patrycja Galonzka is business manager at Aspire Smiles in Warwick, having progressed there from trainee dental nurse through lead nurse and practice manager. She moved to the UK from Poland at nineteen, is the creator of the Caesar leadership framework, and now runs her own consulting business helping dental teams build stronger culture and systems alongside her practice role.

Agne Malisauskiene joins Payman as the clinical lead at the Baltic Academy of Aesthetic Dentistry and one of the world's best-known minimally invasive composite teachers, having trained thousands of dentists from her purpose-built facility in Vilnius.

She talks candidly about swapping punishing NHS-style hours in Lithuania for a much gentler introduction to UK private dentistry, and how a year at a US military boarding school as a teenager shaped the discipline and leadership instincts she still relies on today.

This is also a conversation about ambition and what it costs. From the competitive streak that pushed her toward the hardest degree to get into, to the guilt and logistics of teaching abroad most weekends while raising two young boys, Agne is refreshingly honest about the trade-offs behind a career built on repetition, pattern recognition and constant travel.

Expect sharp reflections on gender and ambition in dental education, why composite bonding took off early in Lithuania, and a clinical mistake that changed how she treats every tooth since.

In This Episode

00:00:50 – Introduction

00:02:40 – Building the Vilnius teaching facility

00:11:57 – Moving to the UK

00:18:27 – Boarding school in America

00:30:57 – Family background and choosing dentistry

00:39:41 – Ambition, competitiveness and sacrifice

00:46:47 – Family life and growing up in Soviet-era Lithuania

00:53:12 – A typical teaching week and travel logistics

01:02:32 – Joining Biomimetic

01:07:33 – Gender, ambition and teaching

01:15:53 – Filming through the loupe camera

01:22:47 – Blackbox thinking

01:26:32 – Favourite resource: Layers 2

01:30:27 – Fantasy dinner party

About Agne Malisauskiene

Agne Malisauskiene is an internationally recognised minimally invasive direct composite expert and the clinical lead at the Baltic Academy of Aesthetic Dentistry in Vilnius, where she trains dentists from around the world. She is a member of Biomimetic and Enlighten's distributor in Lithuania, and splits her time between her own patients and a busy international lecturing schedule.

Shyun Patel joins Payman as a final-year dental student at Liverpool, best known for founding BDSA, the biggest undergraduate dental conference the UK has seen, and for buying his own practice before he's even qualified.

He talks candidly about losing the Dental Society presidency election, the autoimmune diagnosis that reshaped how he thinks about time, and the fridge-flipping side hustle that helped fund his first practice.

This is also a conversation about ambition and its cost. From the cathedral gamble that saved BDSA's gala dinner to the balance between depth and breadth of impact, Shyun's reflections on business are as sharp as his reflections on himself.

Expect thoughtful exchanges on hubris, communication as a clinical skill, sacrifice, and what it means to build something at 23 that most people wait decades to attempt.

In This Episode

00:00:50 – Introduction

00:01:30 – Growing up in Liverpool

00:06:14 – Communication vs skill

00:08:36 – Teaching communication

00:14:00 – Public misconceptions

00:22:38 – Hubris

00:22:52 – Insecurity and upbringing

00:32:57 – Losing DentSoc presidency

00:41:20 – Autoimmune diagnosis

00:50:07 – Building a dating app

00:58:00 – Business by osmosis

01:01:26 – The value of asking

01:04:32 – Scale of BDSA

01:07:26 – Funding BDSA

01:17:07 – Leadership and delegation

01:21:00 – Sales and sponsorship

01:25:10 – The cathedral gamble

01:29:47 – The fridge hustle

01:41:07 – Ambition and sacrifice

01:47:43 – Blackbox thinking

01:52:41 – Clinical vs business

01:59:35 – Depth vs breadth

02:01:11 – Heroes and resources

02:05:29 – Fantasy dinner party

02:07:31 – Five-year vision

About Shyun Patel

Shyun Patel is a final-year dental student at the University of Liverpool and the founder of BDSA, the largest undergraduate dental conference staged in the UK to date. Alongside his studies he already owns a dental practice, works as a dental rep for Bryant, and is building a compatibility-focused dating app in his spare time.