Payman welcomes renowned restorative aesthetic dentist Richard Lee to the Dental Leaders podcast. Richard shares his journey from an unintentional entry into dentistry to becoming one of the UK's top cosmetic clinicians. 

With refreshing candour, he discusses the endless pursuit of excellence, his formative education under mentors like Chris Orr, and his approach to balancing artistry with practicality. 

Throughout the episode, Richard reflects on how his international experiences, including a recent stint in New Zealand, have shaped his perspective on dentistry and life.

In This Episode

00:02:10 - The endless pursuit of excellence and early inspirations

00:05:50 - Discovering dentistry and university experiences

00:12:10 - Early career burnout and taking a year off to dive

00:20:25 - The influence of American occlusion courses

00:26:35 - Returning to dentistry with a new perspective

00:31:30 - Working as Chris Orr's first associate

00:38:00 - Finding your confidence in clinical dentistry

00:41:35 - Injection moulding technique for composite

00:47:15 - Working with technicians and their importance

00:51:40 - Handling difficult cases and patient expectations

00:57:20 - Setting boundaries with patients seeking dramatic aesthetics

01:07:35 - Primary tooth anatomy in composite work

01:15:25 - The New Zealand experience

01:30:35 - Clinical errors and managing patient expectations

01:38:00 - Redoing porcelain veneers for patient satisfaction

01:44:00 - Finding fulfillment in dentistry

01:47:15 - Fantasy dinner party

01:47:45 - Last days and legacy

About Richard Lee

Richard Lee is one of the UK's leading restorative aesthetic dentists, renowned for his work in both composite and ceramic restorations. A graduate of Birmingham University, Richard's career journey took him from NHS dentistry to becoming the first associate at Chris Orr's London Bridge practice. 

He has extensive experience in high-end private practice and currently works with Bupa. Richard is also an educator who runs sought-after composite courses internationally, including freehand and injection moulding techniques. His career has included a period working in New Zealand before returning to the UK, where he now practises in London while commuting from Winchester.

Payman speaks with Anni Seaborne, Head of General Dentistry at Bupa. Anni shares her unconventional journey from international childhood to sports dentistry, including her work with elite athletes and Formula One teams. 

The conversation weaves through her transition into corporate leadership, her honest reflections on being fiercely competitive, and how she balances multiple career paths while navigating personal choices. Throughout, Anni reveals how her sporting background has shaped her approach to dentistry and leadership.

In This Episode

00:01:30 - Practice ownership challenges and imposter syndrome

00:02:10 - Growing up internationally and boarding school life

00:04:25 - Early sporting career and swimming allergy

00:08:00 - Introduction to sports dentistry

00:11:25 - Working with elite teams and athletes

00:14:45 - The unique oral health challenges of athletes

00:18:35 - Building trust with elite athletes

00:20:25 - Performance-enhancing dental appliances

00:23:30 - Sports dentistry logistics and time management

00:27:20 - Corporate leadership experience

00:35:25 - Creating high-performing dental teams

00:38:40 - Making dentistry more enjoyable for staff

00:44:15 - NHS dentistry challenges

00:51:25 - Tooth Angel sustainable oral care products

00:56:35 - Blackbox thinking

01:05:10 - Sports career ending injury

01:15:25 - Work-life balance and career focus

01:20:35 - Fantasy dinner party

01:21:55 - Last days and legacy

About Anni Seaborne

Anni Seaborne is Head of General Dentistry at Bupa and a sports dentistry specialist who works with elite athletes, including England Rugby and Formula One teams. 

A Cardiff graduate, she's played lacrosse at national level for Wales and holds a master's in sports dentistry. 

Beyond her clinical work, Anni is an entrepreneur with stakes in sustainable oral care brand Tooth Angel and is developing her own sports dentistry course. Her unique international upbringing and sporting background have given her a distinct perspective on leadership and team dynamics in dentistry.

In this emotionally rich and refreshingly candid episode of Mind Movers, Julius Cowdrey joins Rhona and Payman to explore everything from public vulnerability to private pain.

Once a singer-songwriter and Made in Chelsea star, Julius opens up about chasing validation, generational trauma, the pressure to provide, and the chaos of early success.

Now a transformational coach, he reflects on the personal work it took to leave reality TV behind and step into purpose.

Expect unfiltered honesty on masculinity, mental health, family dynamics, social media comparison, and what it really takes to feel “enough.”

In This Episode

00:01:00 – Reinvention and identity

00:10:30 – Pressure to provide

00:20:00 – Family, love and legacy

00:29:30 – Made in Chelsea: dark side

00:39:00 – Leaving TV for growth

00:48:30 – Coaching and imposter syndrome

00:58:00 – Purpose through helping others

01:07:30 – Social media and truth

01:17:00 – Masculinity and mental health

01:26:00 – Fantasy dinner party guests

About Julius Cowdrey

Julius Cowdrey is a transformational coach, speaker and content creator known for his emotional intelligence, powerful conversations on male vulnerability, and background in music and television. After rising to fame on Made in Chelsea, Julius left the show to focus on his personal growth and now helps others move from chaos to clarity in their lives through coaching and his widely shared content series, The Mic.

In the second part of this enlightening conversation, Martin and Vinnie Attariani dive deeper into their professional lives and personal passions. 

They discuss their experiences as judges for dental awards, their perspectives on industry recognition, and Martin's surprising side career as a professional magician.

The conversation explores their charitable endeavours, reflections on effective altruism, and their vision for a more holistic approach to healthcare that extends beyond dentistry. 

With candid insights about prevention, patient education, and the importance of looking at overall wellbeing, the Attarianis reveal their aspirations to create something more comprehensive than traditional dental care.

In This Episode

00:00:50 - Judging dental awards

00:05:10 - Dispelling award myths

00:09:35 - Patient journey innovations

00:13:15 - First impressions in practice

00:17:25 - The Top 50 dental list

00:21:00 - Kilimanjaro expedition

00:29:40 - Charity fundraising

00:32:30 - Effective altruism discussion

00:40:30 - Magic as a second career

00:43:35 - The Magic Dentist project

00:45:40 - Prevention and sugar frequency

00:53:15 - Future business plans

00:57:50 - Holistic healthcare vision

About Martin and Vinnie Attariani

Martin Attariani fled Iran as a teenage refugee before qualifying as a dentist in Sweden, where he also holds a master's in biochemistry. 

Now practising in the UK for 17 years, he operates a beautifully refurbished listed building practice where he excels in complex dentistry, including implants, endodontics, and orthodontics. 

Vinnie Attariani, originally from Canada, moved to the UK through an arranged marriage at 17, qualifying in dentistry from Birmingham in 2000 while raising two sons during her undergraduate years. 

She practices in a partnership at Houston Place, one of the UK's oldest dental practices, established in the 1840s.

In this deeply personal first part of a two-part interview, Payman Langroudi sits down with the dental power couple Martin and Vinnie Attariani. 

They share their remarkable journey to the UK - Martin's harrowing escape from Iran as a 14-year-old refugee to Sweden, and Vinnie's move from Canada to the UK through an arranged marriage at 17. 

The conversation explores their paths into dentistry, their approach to clinical excellence, and their philosophy about practice ownership. With candid reflections on mistakes, patient management, and work-life balance, the Attarianis offer invaluable insights into what makes a fulfilling career in dentistry while maintaining perspective on what truly matters in life.

In This Episode

00:01:55 - Meeting and getting together

00:05:40 - Martin's escape from Iran

00:25:25 - First reunion with family

00:31:40 - Vinnie's journey from Canada

00:43:35 - Balancing education and motherhood

00:51:45 - Swedish dental education

01:03:55 - Digital dentistry and scanning

01:11:35 - Blackbox thinking: Clinical errors

01:17:15 - Fitness to practice investigation

01:22:40 - Managing cosmetic patient expectations

01:31:25 - Partnership practice model

01:39:00 - Mental health in dentistry

01:51:40 - Fantasy dinner party

01:54:35 - Last days and legacy

About Martin and Vinnie Attariani

Martin Attariani fled Iran as a teenage refugee before qualifying as a dentist in Sweden, where he also holds a master's in biochemistry. 

Now practising in the UK for 17 years, he operates a beautifully refurbished listed building practice where he excels in complex dentistry, including implants, endodontics, and orthodontics. 

Vinnie Attariani, originally from Canada, moved to the UK through an arranged marriage at 17, qualifying in dentistry from Birmingham in 2000 while raising two sons during her undergraduate years. 

She practices in a partnership at Houston Place, one of the UK's oldest dental practices, established in the 1840s.

Prav sits down with husband-and-wife team Drs Mumta and Amit Jilka, the owners of Abbey House Dental. 

From humble beginnings working in corner shops to building a successful multi-practice dental business, the Jilkas share their inspiring journey of entrepreneurship, resilience, and growth. 

They candidly discuss how their business flourished organically before adopting a more strategic approach, including the challenges they faced during a financial crisis in 2024 that nearly led to bankruptcy, and how they turned it around through team solidarity, data-driven decisions, and improved associate mentorship.

In This Episode

00:01:40 - Backstory

00:26:40 - Path to dentistry and how they both ended up at Sheffield University

00:29:35 - How Mumta and Amit met at dental school and their early relationship

00:41:25 - The purchase of their first practice and the beginning of Abbey House Dental

00:45:55 - Balancing practice growth with raising children

00:48:35 - How Covid provided a valuable opportunity to reassess their business strategy

00:51:55 - Financial crisis of 2024 and discovering their business model wasn't working

00:57:45 - Difficult conversations with associates about reducing percentages

01:01:35 - The importance of mentoring associates, especially with consultation skills

01:04:55 - Current state of Abbey House and future growth plans

01:10:55 - Reflections on their journey and thriving in crisis mode

01:15:55 - Last days and legacy - advice they would leave for their children

01:19:15 - Fantasy dinner party guests

About Mumta and Amit Jilka

Dr. Mumta and Dr. Amit Jilka own Abbey House Dental, a group of four dental practices known for high-quality private dentistry, Invisalign, and implant treatments. 

Both raised in entrepreneurial families with corner shop businesses, they met at Sheffield University's dental school and married two years after graduation. 

Their business journey began with purchasing a single-surgery practice that has now expanded to multiple locations, all while raising three children and navigating the ups and downs of dental practice ownership.

Prav Solanki returns as host to interview Dev Patel, CEO of Dental Beauty Partners, about growing and scaling dental practices. 

This episode effectively distills the regular conversations Prav and Dev have about practice growth, offering listeners a fly-on-the-wall experience of their candid discussions. 

Dev shares his straightforward approach to practice growth, emphasising the importance of leadership, financial literacy, and a patient-first mindset. They discuss everything from evaluating practice potential and understanding financial statements to employee relationships and investment strategies. 

The episode builds toward an exciting announcement about a new joint venture that promises to transform how practice owners approach business growth: https://www.startscaleexit.co.uk

In This Episode

00:02:40 - Practice-growth mindset

00:04:35 - Growth & NHS

00:09:00 - Improving patient journey and experience

00:12:30 - Due diligence and practice acquisitions

00:14:15 - Investing in people vs investing in premises

00:17:15 - Financial literacy and business training

00:33:10 - Investing in tech

00:36:35 - Sales and practice profitability

00:39:10 - Revenue growth with cost control

00:41:25 - Leadership and transparency

00:44:55 - Modern vs traditional leadership approaches

00:47:20 - Big announcement

About Dev Patel

Dev Patel is the CEO of Dental Beauty Partners, a dental group with 57 practices across the UK. 

With over 15 years of experience in practice acquisitions and growth, Dev has developed a reputation for rapidly scaling dental businesses through strategic partnerships and a people-focused investment approach. 

His expertise lies in identifying growth opportunities, streamlining operations, and creating sustainable business models in dentistry.

Payman chats with Kaival Patel, the dynamic force behind Kana Health Group. Kaival opens up about his journey from an enthusiastic associate dentist to the leader of a thriving dental empire comprising five large practices and 130 staff members. 

With refreshing candour, he shares the challenges of creating a positive culture, the emotional lows of practice ownership, and his innovative approaches to team building and referral marketing. 

What truly shines through is Kaival's passion for developing people and creating workplaces where positivity becomes the foundation for success.

In This Episode

00:01:40 - Practice culture and family vibe across multiple locations

00:04:15 - North Star: Establishing positivity and respect as core values

00:09:50 - Evolution vs. revolution in practice acquisitions

00:12:35 - Growing as a leader and management evolution

00:16:30 - The Kana Cup: Points for positivity team system

00:19:20 - Handling resistance to new ideas

00:24:20 - Hiring for attitude over skill

00:30:15 - Business structure and organisation

00:40:35 - Pursuing peace vs. potential

00:53:05 - Creating a referral centre

00:57:45 - The hamper drop: Innovative referral marketing

01:04:00 - Career evolution and identity crisis

01:14:15 - Fantasy dinner party

01:28:55 - Last days and legacy

About Kaival Patel

Kaival is the co-director of Kana Health Group, which operates five large dental practices with 28-29 chairs across Milton Keynes, employing approximately 130 team members. 

Originally from a family of Ugandan Asian immigrants who valued education above all, Kaival transitioned from clinical dentistry to business leadership after experiencing eye health issues during COVID. 

Together with his wife Serena, he has developed the Kana Academy, an educational institution providing high-quality dental training in Milton Keynes.

In this powerful episode of Mind Movers, Rhona and Payman speak with Jacqueline Hurst, one of the UK's leading life coaches and mindset experts. 

Jacqueline shares her remarkable journey from addiction, anorexia and self-destruction to becoming a force for change who has helped thousands transform their lives. 

With raw honesty, she explains how she hit rock bottom at 25, found recovery, and developed her no-nonsense approach to mindset work. 

The conversation explores how our thoughts create our feelings, the importance of self-awareness, and why finding inner peace has become Jacqueline's definition of success after 22 years of sobriety.

In This Episode

00:01:35 - Introduction and background

00:03:35 - Early struggles with addiction

00:05:25 - Parenting impact without blame

00:10:00 - Mindset management philosophy

00:22:15 - Fight or flight responses

00:29:10 - Rock bottom and turning point

00:30:10 - Recovery through meetings

00:39:35 - Thought patterns vs feelings

00:49:10 - Relationships and emotional intelligence

00:53:25 - Common limiting beliefs

00:55:40 - Self-awareness techniques

01:00:00 - Peace as true success 01:08:15 - Last days and legacy

About Jacqueline Hurst

Jacqueline Hurst is one of the UK's leading life coaches, a mindset expert and author of "How to Do You". After overcoming severe addiction issues and hitting rock bottom at age 25, she transformed her life and has now been clean for 22 years. Her straight-talking approach has helped over 9,000 clients break free from limiting beliefs and take control of their minds.

In this captivating episode of Dental Leaders, Payman sits down with specialist endodontist Ammar Al Hourani. Born in Syria and raised in Scotland, Ammar shares his journey from reluctant dental student to passionate endodontics specialist. 

The conversation weaves through his life-changing experiences in refugee camps, the challenges of specialist training, and his current success running courses in the UK and India. 

Throughout the discussion, Ammar offers valuable clinical insights on everything from diagnosis to obturation while reflecting on the importance of listening to one's gut instinct in both clinical practice and life.

In This Episode

00:01:55 - Scottish upbringing and cultural identity

00:04:55 - Path to dentistry

00:14:45 - Refugee camp experiences

00:22:25 - Endodontic specialisation journey

00:27:35 - Imposter syndrome and building a practice

00:33:50 - Endodontic diagnosis tips

00:36:15 - Access cavity preparation

00:38:05 - Irrigation techniques

00:41:35 - File systems and obturation

00:45:40 - Coronal seal importance

00:49:50 - Managing cracked teeth

00:55:00 - Internal whitening techniques

01:03:40 - NHS dentistry challenges

01:08:40 - Continuing education courses

01:28:10 - Blackbox thinking

01:36:45 - Fantasy dinner party

About Ammar Al Hourani

Ammar Al Hourani is a specialist endodontist based in London. Originally from Syria but raised in Scotland, he completed his specialist training at Liverpool after working in various clinical settings. He now divides his time between clinical practice at multiple locations and teaching through "The Endo Guy," offering courses in both the UK and India.