Ashley King and Sophie Lovett run the international side of Pearl, the AI company that reads dental radiographs — and they turn up as a self-confessed package deal. 

The chat starts with what the tech actually does (a second opinion for clinicians, and a way to help patients finally see what's going on in their own mouths), but it doesn't stay there for long. Payman, Ashley and Sophie get into US versus UK dentistry, the state of the NHS, why trust beats price every time, and how AI is creeping into everyday work. 

Then it gets personal: women and AI, the awkwardness of asking for a pay rise, what happens when a woman out-earns her partner, and whether having children is selfless or selfish. Honest, funny and occasionally controversial — this one wanders well beyond the X-ray.

In This Episode

00:00:50 - Life at a start-up

00:02:20 - Life on the road

00:04:35 - Distributors or your own office

00:06:05 - What Pearl does

00:09:30 - Accuracy and limits

00:10:45 - A controversial take

00:12:45 - AI and the future

00:18:35 - A cottage industry

00:21:20 - US vs UK dentistry

00:24:40 - NHS vs private

00:30:20 - Getting set up

00:34:00 - The price

00:35:40 - Why trust is everything

00:37:45 - The word "sell"

00:40:35 - Living in London

00:46:50 - The worst of America

00:51:50 - Politics

00:56:05 - AI in their own work

01:00:50 - Women and AI

01:02:30 - The pay rise problem

01:05:20 - The gender pay gap

01:08:25 - Femininity as power

01:11:00 - Relationships and self-reliance

01:13:55 - Children

01:16:30 - Out-earning a partner

01:25:10 - "I'm just a hygienist"

01:26:30 - Business influences

01:33:50 - Biggest business mistakes

01:38:40 - Competitors and USP

01:45:40 - Guilty pleasures

01:49:05 - Fantasy dinner party

01:54:00 - Ministry of Sound

About Ashley King & Sophie Lovett

Ashley King leads international partnerships at Pearl, having started out in dental back in 2018 at VOCO; she's from North Carolina and now calls London home. Sophie Lovett heads up Pearl's international market development and, despite only three years in dentistry, talks the clinical language like a native. The two are best friends as much as colleagues — which is exactly why they turned up to record together.

Professor Tara Renton OBE brings four generations of dental history — and a career built on curiosity rather than ambition — to her conversation with Payman.

 From navigating undiagnosed dyslexia and a father who begged her not to follow him into dentistry, to becoming the first female chair of oral surgery at King's College London, her story is one of serendipity, resilience, and an almost obsessive interest in the patient behind the pain. 

She shares remarkable insights into orofacial pain — nerve injuries, psychosocial histories, patients whose chronic pain only begins to shift when someone finally takes the time to ask the right question — and makes a compelling case for multidisciplinary thinking in a profession she feels has been far too siloed for far too long. 

Sharp reflections on surgical safety, local anaesthetic technique, and the state of dental education sit alongside something warmer: a life philosophy that's disarmingly simple. Stay curious.

In This Episode

00:02:50 - Four generations of dentists

00:06:05 - Child dental health crisis

00:07:20 - New grandmother

00:10:00 - Choosing dentistry

00:17:05 - Serendipity over ambition

00:37:15 - The juggle: three kids and a PhD

00:41:00 - Bullying and misogyny in surgery

00:44:45 - King's: first chair in oral surgery

00:47:35 - Multidisciplinary pain clinic

00:49:25 - The Iranian patient

00:56:00 - Trust underpins consent

01:00:00 - Classifying orofacial pain

01:07:05 - When grief resolves chronic pain

01:12:15 - Blackbox thinking

01:17:00 - Local anaesthetic tips

01:22:00 - Wrong site surgery

01:25:30 - Dental student selection

01:27:15 - Redesigning the dental course

01:47:50 - Bruxism: rethinking the evidence

01:50:15 - Fantasy dinner party

01:53:45 - Last days and legacy

About Professor Tara Renton OBE

Professor Tara Renton OBE is Emeritus Professor of Oral Surgery at King's College London Dental Institute, where she became the first female chair of oral surgery — and one of the world's leading authorities on orofacial pain and nerve injury. Over a career spanning more than 40 years, she has authored over 250 research papers, completed a PhD centred on morbidity following third molar surgery, established a pioneering multidisciplinary pain clinic at King's, and carried out extensive medico-legal work in surgical safety. She is the co-founder of the patient resource orofacialpain.org.uk.

Mike Gray's path to dentistry was anything but straightforward — and that's precisely what makes this conversation so compelling. 

A former semi-professional mountain biker who raced the World Series across three disciplines, a musician who once had the head of Universal Publishing sitting in his living room in rural Wales, and a dentist who spent years doing everything he could to avoid dentistry, Mike has lived several lives before arriving at the one he clearly loves. 

Payman and Mike cover the full sweep — grief, therapy, surgical war stories, and an obsessive, self-taught approach to digital restorative dentistry that culminates in his POISE Protocol: a no-prep veneer workflow that he believes makes truly minimally invasive ceramics available to the vast majority of patients, not just a lucky five per cent.

In This Episode

00:00:55 – Introductions and first impressions

00:01:20 – Mountain biking career

00:09:15 – A friend's suicide, guilt and stepping back from maxfax

00:12:15 – Therapy

00:14:10 – Life on the World Series circuit

00:19:25 – From maxfax to music

00:28:10 – Blackbox thinking

00:33:45 – Music career — Alabama Three, Peppa Pig and Covid

00:49:25 – NHS dentistry debate

00:51:50 – Falling in love with dentistry

00:54:40 – Self-taught restorative and the digital workflow

01:00:25 – Ditching the articulator

01:01:20 – Prototypes, not temporaries

01:05:10 – Into implants

01:11:00 – Compassion fatigue

01:13:40 – POISE protocol and no-prep ceramics

01:25:10 – The Lodge and the course

01:29:05 – Resilience and failure

01:34:20 – Practice ownership

01:41:10 – Instagram

01:49:20 – Fantasy dinner party

About Mike Gray

Mike Gray is a dentist based in Wales, working at Parkway Clinic in Swansea and The Lodge — a referral and education centre where he hosts his sold-out POISE Protocol course on minimally invasive ceramic veneers. His background spans maxillofacial surgery, semi-professional mountain biking at World Series level, and a music career that attracted interest from Universal Publishing and, improbably, Peppa Pig. He teaches himself CAD, machines his own surgical instruments, and has spent five years developing a digital workflow for no-prep ceramic restorations that he believes renders feldspathic and heavy preparation largely redundant.

Rawa Jawad Quinn is a dentist-turned-tech founder whose restless energy and refusal to be underestimated have shaped every chapter of her career. In this episode, she tells Payman about growing up in Chelsea after her Iraqi family fled Kuwait with nothing, studying in Liverpool, and working across 16 dental practices before channelling her frustrations into Medicube — a consent and patient communication platform built to give associates the consistency they've never had. The conversation takes some wonderfully unexpected detours into quantum physics, telepathy, AI-driven futures and the spiritual experiences that Rawa can't quite explain but absolutely trusts. There's also plenty of practical wisdom on occlusion, practice culture and what it really takes to bootstrap a dental tech start-up while raising a three-year-old without a nanny.

In This Episode

00:00:45 – Introduction and welcome

00:01:25 – Growing up on the Kings Road and childhood in Chelsea

00:03:30 – Studying dentistry in Liverpool and reinvention

00:07:00 – Dyslexia diagnosis and learning differently

00:10:10 – The itch beyond dentistry

00:14:00 – Fleeing Kuwait, starting over in the UK

00:16:25 – Why her parents' medical careers put her off medicine

00:18:05 – Ambition, being underestimated and self-belief

00:23:15 – Spirituality, connectedness and trusting intuition

00:26:10 – Wanting it all — motherhood, marriage and a start-up

00:31:00 – Lessons from 16 dental practices

00:36:25 – Working in corporates and at Bupa

00:41:20 – NHS vs private practice

00:45:15 – The birth of Medicube

00:48:30 – How Medicube works and pilot results

00:55:55 – Finding a co-founder and the UCL connection

00:58:50 – Funding through grants, awards and bootstrapping

01:03:25 – AI, the Turing test and the future of work

01:10:25 – Robots, relationships and what makes us human

01:22:55 – Physics, multiverse theory and keeping an open mind

01:28:40 – Blackbox thinking

01:33:40 – A patient with buyer's remorse after crown preps

01:36:55 – Occlusion, full mouth rehabs and the Dawson Academy

01:43:20 – Tech conferences and the reality of being a founder

01:47:05 – Fantasy dinner party

About Rawa Jawad Quinn

Rawa Jawad Quinn is a dentist based in Belfast, currently working at Bupa, with a particular interest in full mouth rehabilitation cases. She is also the co-founder of Medicube, a dental tech platform that streamlines consent, treatment planning and patient communication. Rawa trained at the Dawson Academy and Chris Hall's programme, and has worked across 16 practices spanning NHS, private and corporate settings.

Andy Acton returns to the Dental Leaders hot seat for a proper deep-cut conversation about the business of owning a dental practice — from first purchase right through to the exit. 

Payman and Andy cover the current market (spoiler: banks still love dentists, and buyers far outnumber sellers), before getting into the real meat of the episode: owner fatigue. Andy breaks down the five categories of burnout he's observed across 25 years of working with practice owners, and it's the kind of honest, unglamorous stuff that rarely gets aired. 

There's also a brilliant success story about a single-surgery practice that became a near-£2 million sale in four years, plus some sharp advice on what not to do in your first month of ownership. 

Whether you're thinking about buying, selling, or just trying to work out why you're so tired, this one's well worth your time.

In This Episode

00:00:50 – Andy's business portfolio and the FTA family of companies

00:03:10 – Market snapshot: supply, demand and the state of play in December 2025

00:04:15 – Squats vs acquisitions

00:07:35 – What buyers are really looking for

00:10:15 – Occupancy levels and the case for maximising before expanding

00:13:10 – Corporates vs independents: deal structures and flexibility

00:17:10 – Patient attrition when the owner leaves

00:20:25 – Horror stories and success stories: flipping practices

00:28:15 – Young dentists buying early and the bank of mum and dad

00:31:05 – Would Andy encourage his kids to become dentists?

00:33:20 – Owner fatigue: five categories of burnout

00:35:25 – How valuation methods have evolved over 25 years

00:42:45 – Raising finance and banking terms

00:45:45 – The ownership lifecycle and signs of fatigue

00:55:55 – Sales readiness: the checklist

01:05:30 – Business education and the case for teaching it at school

01:13:05 – Understanding financial accounts and key KPIs

01:18:25 – Quick-fire: favourite business book, business hero, and the green lights philosophy

01:25:15 – Dental leaders who inspire Andy

01:32:25 – Fly on the wall moment: the Man United treble changing room

About Andy Acton

Andy Acton is co-founder of Frank Taylor Associates, one of the UK's leading dental practice sales and valuation firms. Alongside his business partner Chris, Andy has built a portfolio of dental-focussed businesses, including FTA Finance, FTA Media, FTA Wealth, and the Principals Club — a members-only community for independent practice owners. He has worked in the dental sector for over 25 years.

In this lively and layered episode of Mind Movers, Vanita Rattan joins Rhona and Payman to talk about medicine, entrepreneurship, motherhood and the sheer force of personality it takes to build something different. She traces her path from UCL medical school to formulating skincare for skin of colour, then opening clinics around the world before Covid forced a brutal pivot into social media and direct-to-consumer growth. What follows is not just a business story. It is a conversation about dyslexia, immigrant pressure, obsession, sacrifice, miscarriage, ambition and the cost of always operating in warrior mode. Honest, sharp and occasionally uncomfortable, this one goes well beyond skincare.

In This Episode
00:01:15 - Medicine to formulation
00:02:05 - Building global clinics
00:05:05 - Covid and the pivot
00:06:20 - Community over following
00:10:25 - Crisis mode and grit
00:15:00 - Opportunity cost thinking
00:20:15 - Dyslexia and determination
00:27:25 - Business, children and sacrifice
00:31:00 - Money, ambition and power
00:56:25 - Miscarriage and autopilot

About Vanita Rattan
Vanita Rattan is a medical doctor, cosmetic formulator and entrepreneur focused on skincare for skin of colour. After qualifying in medicine at UCL, she trained in formulation, built the Hyperpigmentation Clinic into an international business, and later grew a highly engaged skincare brand through education-led content and direct community input. She is known for combining science, straight talking and a clear mission to serve women who have long been overlooked by mainstream beauty.

At just 27, Ali Hashemizadeh is doing things most dentists twice his age haven't managed — two private associate roles, a growing reputation as an endodontist, and the kind of self-awareness that usually takes a decade to develop. 

In this episode, Payman sits down with the Newcastle-based, Aberdeen-raised, Iranian dentist to trace the path from a rocky first year on the NHS to finding his feet in private practice. 

Ali talks candidly about the complaint that rocked him early in his career, the perspective shift it forced, and why he's genuinely glad it happened. It's a conversation about curiosity, resilience, and the quiet power of just cracking on.

In This Episode

00:00:50 – Introduction: Ali Hashemizadeh

00:03:45 – Lifelong learning

00:07:25 – The future of dental events

00:14:30 – Optimism as a work philosophy

00:15:35 – NHS complaint, first job

00:19:40 – Resilience and perspective

00:21:10 – Going private early

00:22:25 – Becoming the endo guy

00:25:55 – Generalist or specialist?

00:26:50 – The disease of the twenties

00:28:30 – Iranian roots in Aberdeen

00:38:15 – Foundation year in London

00:40:55 – Outdoor pursuits and Ironman training

00:46:10 – CBCT and safe-ended files

00:50:05 – Endo, implants and aesthetics under one roof

00:52:00 – Treatment coordinators and ethical selling

00:57:15 – The value of mentorship

00:59:00 – Networking and landing the jobs

01:02:55 – The two practices compared

01:07:35 – Lucas Lassman and the most inspiring lecture

01:10:40 – Dental resources: YouTube and Instagram

01:15:10 – Being Mortal and Man's Search for Meaning

01:16:30 – Modern Wisdom and guilty pleasures

01:22:35 – Ten-year plan

01:27:40 – Fantasy dinner party

About Ali Hashemizadeh

Ali Hashemizadeh is a 27-year-old private associate dentist working across two practices in the northeast of England — Middleton Saint George Dental in Darlington and Ken Harris's clinic in Sunderland — where he has developed a particular focus on endodontics. Born and raised in Aberdeen to Iranian parents, he qualified from Newcastle University and completed his foundation year in London before heading back north.

Grant Goodstein isn't a dentist — and that might be exactly why this episode is so refreshing. An American tech exec turned practice owner, Grant moved to London for love (a Hannah Montana-inspired trip to LA, a dating app, and a last-minute Vegas concert, if you can believe it) and ended up buying a mixed NHS practice in Fulham with his wife, Leah. 

What follows is a masterclass in what happens when someone with zero clinical background but serious business chops walks into a neighbourhood dental practice and starts asking, "What do patients actually want?" 

From GBT machines and AI phone systems to living wage accreditation and obsessing over Wi-Fi signal strength in the toilet, Grant's approach is equal parts Silicon Valley hustle and genuine community spirit.

In This Episode

00:01:00 – Meeting Leah: dating apps, Hannah Montana and a spontaneous trip to Vegas

00:06:15 – London vs Los Angeles

00:08:25 – Growing up sports-obsessed and working for Michigan basketball

00:13:10 – Coaching rituals and building team enthusiasm

00:15:25 – Buying the practice: staff turnover, evolution vs revolution

00:19:35 – Practice valuations then and now

00:22:05 – Listening to patients and expanding hygiene

00:26:10 – Running a mixed practice: the case for keeping NHS

00:32:20 – Growing Invisalign from 20 to 100 cases a year

00:34:10 – Genuine interest, patient conversations and the "daughter test"

00:36:10 – The search for the right practice

00:41:20 – Nervous patients and the patient experience

00:43:35 – Investing in GBT and premium hygiene

00:49:40 – Learning when and how to say no

00:55:25 – Tech stack: CareStack, VoIP, AI transcription and remote hiring

01:02:45 – Reception as a revenue driver

01:06:25 – Training, role plays and AI for SOPs

01:09:20 – High-performing teams: sports analogies in practice

01:11:30 – Blackbox thinking

01:15:20 – Refurb lessons and driving urgency

01:18:50 – Finding purpose after tech burnout

01:21:15 – Favourite business books

01:24:50 – Fantasy dinner party

01:31:15 – Leah's fearless flyer course and treating nervous patients

About Grant Goodstein

Grant Goodstein is the managing director of Pearly Whites dental practice in Fulham, London, which he co-owns with his wife, dentist Leah Goodstein. A University of Michigan economics graduate, Grant previously worked in tech — including a stint at Twitter — before moving to the UK and channelling his business background into practice ownership.

Mehy Lo Presti joins Payman on the podcast for a wide-ranging conversation that's equal parts origin story and quiet manifesto. Raised in the heartland of La Mancha by a Palestinian father and Italian mother, Mehy arrived in London in 2015 with barely any English, no NHS number, and — as it turns out — very little interest in following the conventional path. 

He's since built a reputation not just as a restorative associate but as one of dentistry's most creative event and experience designers, currently channelling that energy into Dent Town, a major immersive dental conference launching this September. 

The conversation ranges freely across the fear culture surrounding the GDC, the science of patient experience design, and the painful economics of putting on events that are actually good — before landing somewhere unexpectedly personal, as Mehy opens up about the impact of October 7th on his family and his mental health in the weeks surrounding his daughter's birth.

In This Episode

00:00:55 - Introductions

00:01:50 - The outsider mentality

00:03:05 - Palestinian-Italian roots and growing up in La Mancha

00:07:15 - On parenting and giving children freedom

00:10:30 - Problems with conventional education

00:30:55 - GDC fear culture vs Spain

00:37:10 - Moving to London from scratch

00:40:20 - First steps in private practice

00:41:25 - Master's in aesthetic restorative dentistry at King's

00:43:20 - College of Extraordinary Experiences

00:48:00 - Patient Experience Design

00:49:30 - Designing the ideal squat

00:52:55 - Reception as the heart of the practice

01:02:10 - Google reviews and the "feel" factor

01:04:05 - Associate vs clinic owner

01:09:15 - The economics of running events

01:17:15 - Events mistakes

01:20:50 - Blackbox thinking

01:25:00 - Setting patient expectations

01:29:20 - Favourite resources

01:32:05 - Fantasy dinner party

01:36:25 - October 7th, Gaza, and personal impact

01:43:00 - Faith, karma, and identity

About Mehy Lo Presti

Mehy Lo Presti is a London-based associate dentist with a master's degree in aesthetic and restorative dentistry from King's College London, currently practising at The Kensington Dentist. A son of Palestinian and Italian parents who met in Egypt and settled in Spain, he grew up in La Mancha before relocating to London in 2015. He is probably best known as the creative force behind Global Dental Collective and the Dental Rama brand, and is now co-founder of Denttown — an immersive two-day dental conference launching in September 2026.

Prav is back in the host's chair for a conversation that's quite literally close to home — Andy Sloan is his boss. Andy is the MD of Agilio, the dental software and compliance platform, and a man who has overseen well over a hundred practice acquisitions throughout his career. 

But before any of that, he was a council house kid from the Wirral, running paper rounds at 14, pulling pints at 18, and somehow landing — by his own admission — in dentistry entirely by accident. This episode traces that unlikely path through hospitality, banking, accountancy and private equity, unpicking the one constant that runs through all of it: relationships. 

Andy opens up about the dark periods too — fertility struggles, the pressure of simultaneous transactions, and the moments where burnout lurked closer than he'd care to admit. Honest, warm and genuinely self-aware, it's a cracking listen—or catch the video on whichever platform you usually get your weekly Dental Leaders dose.

In This Episode

00:00:20 - Introducing Andy Sloan - Prav's boss

00:02:15 - Early life

00:12:10 - Hospitality years

00:26:40 - Meeting Lynette; buying the pub

00:27:00 - Banking and sales

00:38:15 - Into dentistry — DBG

00:43:50 - Henry Schein Business Solutions and Europe

00:46:45 - Portman Dental

00:59:05 - Joining Julio; building the tribe

01:04:00 - Julio's growth — 17 acquisitions in under five years

01:07:35 - Relationships as the common thread

01:13:20 - Blackbox thinking

01:15:45 - Practice valuations — the levers that matter

01:27:25 - Dark moments

01:34:55 - Julio's future and the Dental OS vision

01:37:10 - Dentistry Reimagined

01:41:25 - Last days and legacy

About Andy Sloan

Andy Sloan is the Managing Director of Agilio, the dental software and compliance group that has completed 17 acquisitions in under five years. His career spans hospitality, banking, private equity and dental M&A — including a spell as Business Development Director at Portman Dental Care, where he oversaw the acquisition of more than 120 practices. He is also the founder of Dentistry Reimagined, an independent industry event focused on the conversations dentistry has been too cautious to have.