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Increasingly, design systems need to support multi-product ecosystems with a diverse array of consumers and stakeholders. This week, Chris Strahl sits down with Miranda Bouck from Instacart to explore the intricacies of managing a multi-faceted design system. Miranda delves into the challenges and strategies of balancing the diverse needs of consumer apps, internal apps, and enterprise retail partners, all while maintaining system flexibility and performance. Learn how Instacart's small but mighty design system team effectively supports a vast network of designers, developers, and business partners. Tune in for a fascinating discussion on pushing the boundaries of design systems in a complex ecosystem.

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Guest
Miranda is a Staff Product Designer at Instacart, working on the Instacart Design System, Pantry. Her aim: build products that create an accessible, logical, and predictable user experience. Blueberries. They're always in my cart.

Host
Chris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.

Sponsor
Sponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

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Many enterprise organizations face the challenge of scaling their design systems as the scope of product support expands through adoption and acquisition.

In this episode of the Design Systems Podcast, host Chris Strahl speaks with Will Rodenbough, Senior UX Designer at Avalara, about the critical role of design systems in enabling scalability and supporting a growth-by-acquisition strategy.

Key Topics Covered:

• Scaling Through Systems Thinking: How Avalara's design system harmonizes diverse products across its growing ecosystem.
• Supporting Growth-by-Acquisition: Strategies for integrating acquired companies into a unified design system.
• Collaboration and Accessibility: Ensuring stakeholder alignment and prioritizing accessibility as a foundation for scalable design.

Listen to discover how Will leverages design systems to drive scalability and growth in a multi-product organization.

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Guest

Will Rodenbough is a Senior UX Designer based in Seattle with over a decade of experience working at startups and industry-leading tech companies. He has been the design lead on the Avalara design system since its inception in 2018, collaborating with teams across the company to provide scalable and accessible solutions that emphasize a thoughtful balance between consistency and flexibility.

Host
Chris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide.

Sponsor
Sponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

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In our first episode of 2025, Chris Strahl sits down with Adriana Morales, Design Principal at H-E-B, to explore the evolution, challenges, and triumphs of design systems in organizations at different stages of maturity. Adriana shares her journey from IBM to H-E-B, highlighting how each company’s unique financial priorities and cultural dynamics shape the mission and execution of their design systems. Together, they discuss the paradox of design systems: balancing constraints with creativity, and ensuring they enhance rather than hinder innovation. Adriana also offers actionable strategies for celebrating small wins, sustaining engagement, and demonstrating the tangible value of design systems across teams, leaders, and executives. Tune in for an inspiring start to the new year!

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Guest

Adriana Morales is a Design Principal at H-E-B based in Austin, TX, where she uses systems thinking and radical collaboration to create scalable design systems, resources, and tools to bridge the gaps between design and engineering teams and build cohesive experiences. She believes in nurturing the next generation of designers to find clarity in complexity and uncover their hidden powers.

Host
Chris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.

Sponsor
Sponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

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In this special episode of the Design Systems Podcast, co-founders Chris Strahl and Evan Lovely celebrate five years of the podcast and reflect on their journey from agency work to building Knapsack. They discuss the evolution of design systems, lessons learned from working with global enterprise clients, and the importance of composability, constraints, and community in driving innovation. Enjoy anecdotes from their early days and a look ahead at the role of AI and design systems in the future.

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If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.

Host
Chris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.

Sponsor
Sponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

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In this episode, Chris talks with Daniel Ley and Jonas Ulrich from KickstartDS, a framework designed to simplify design system creation and drive meaningful adoption. They dive deep into what adoption really means, moving beyond metrics like component coverage to focus on efficiency, team morale, and an iterative approach. Drawing on real-world examples like UNICEF Germany, they share how effective adoption strategies can reduce complexity, speed up delivery, and maximize impact. Tune in to learn how to measure and represent adoption in ways that truly reflect your design system's value!

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Guests
Jonas Ulrich and Daniel Ley are the founders of kickstartDS and owners of ruhmesmeile, a consultancy specializing in design systems and headless CMS. After over 15 years of experience developing websites and UIs as a traditional online agency, they sought to improve how teams work on web frontends. This vision led them to establish kickstartDS as a corporate venture in 2021, providing an open source meta framework for design system creation.

Host
Chris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.

Sponsor
Sponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

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Language shapes the way we think and structure the world we build. On this episode of The Design Systems Podcast, Chris Strahl sits down with Ben Callahan, co-founder of Sparkbox, to explore the critical role of language and communication in team dynamics, problem-solving, and system structures. Ben shares insights on how linguistic choices shape product creation and drive organization-wide cohesion. He argues that while common ground is essential, design systems should balance order with controlled "quenched disorder" to foster innovation, using flexible, layered structures that adapt to unique team needs and create scalable, culturally embedded solutions. Listen to the full episode to gain a deeper understanding of the intricate relationship between language, design systems, and organizational culture, as well as practical insights on fostering system adoption and cross-team collaboration.

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Guest
Ben Callahan is a developer, designer, and founder of Sparkbox, known for his engaging presentations, workshops, and his interactive series The Question. With a passion for sharing knowledge, Ben uses his journey to inspire others, bridging the gap between technical insights and the human challenges within design and development.

Host
Chris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.

Sponsor
Sponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

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Explore the unique parallels between urban planning and design systems with Andii Hei. Discover how cities and digital landscapes share principles of structure, adaptability, and creative constraints. Andii offers insights into how these connections reveal new ways to think about system design, collaboration, and the evolution of digital experiences. Whether you're building cityscapes or digital ecosystems, this episode uncovers the essential blueprint for effective design.

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Guest
Andii Hei is a Senior Product Designer leading the transformation of Wesco's enterprise design system, Synergy. A lifelong learner with a zeal for interdisciplinary thinking, often drawing inspiration from diverse fields like the built environment, linguistics, and philosophy.

Host
Chris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.

Sponsor
Sponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

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On today's episode of The Design Systems Podcast, Allison Shaw, Director of Design at Adobe, shares insights from her expansive journey in design systems. From her early days modernizing Yelp’s desktop experience to her pivotal roles at Zendesk and Adobe, Allison talks openly about transitioning from a designer IC role to management, the power of humility, and the importance of fostering strong mentor relationships. Check it out!

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Guest
Allison helps companies mature and scale their design system practices and is passionate about inclusive, accessible design. Currently, Allison is the Director of Design for the Spectrum Design System at Adobe, leading the core design system and unified experiences across Creative Cloud and Generative AI. She previously led the Garden Design System at Zendesk, and also worked across consumer tech at places like Thumbtack, Twitter, and Yelp.

Host
Chris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.

Sponsor
Sponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

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Are components a necessary part of a design system? In this episode of The Design Systems Podcast, Alice Preisler, the Product Owner of Design System at ADP challenges the idea that all design systems start with a component library. Alice and host, Chris Strahl discuss what starting with documentation and design tokens instead of components might do for a design system and product teams. Alice shares her vision of using a linting tool to enforce design consistency to create a cohesive user experience. Tune in for fun thought experiments and pragmatic insights on fostering creativity within constraints, and the role of documentation and tooling for faster, consistent product development.

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Guest
Alice Preisler leads the development of ADP's enterprise design system to cover all technical platforms (web, iOS, Android, ATM) across unique customer-facing brands. Alice leads highly visible, complex and customer driven products, projects, programs, and portfolios. She excels managing stakeholders, bringing the right resources into complex global projects to ensure successful execution. 

Host
Chris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.

Sponsor
Sponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

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On today's episode of the Design Systems Podcast, we hear from Catalina Manea, Senior Designer at Spelunk, about the crucial intersection of design and development. Catalina shares her journey from graphic design to product and systems design, providing insights into the importance of reusability, cross-functional collaboration, and empathy in building scalable and adaptable design systems. Catalina emphasizes that design systems go beyond UI and consistency—they are powerful tools for enhancing teamwork and agility in fast-paced environments.

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Guest
Catalina Manea has been a system designer since the early stages of her career as a product designer, working with both emerging and established design systems. She has collaborated with cross-functional teams to launch new systems from scratch and has contributed to refining and evolving well-established ones across multiple industries. Throughout Catalina’s career, she has enjoyed mentoring junior designers and sharing insights at industry conferences.

Host
Chris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.

Sponsor
Sponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.