In the 20 years following 9/11, American soil has been safe from similar large-scale attacks by foreign nonstate actors. Does that mean we won the war on terror? Elliot Ackerman is a former U.S. Marine and intelligence officer, and he joins host Krys Boyd to talk about what warfare looks like today, the increasing military-civilian divide, and what the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have cost America beyond dollars and lives lost. His article published in Foreign Affairs is headlined “Winning Ugly.”