In Part 2 of this conversation, Trisha Taylor continues her dialogue with Mac and Josie McCarthy, diving deeper into what it means to lead churches and communities where people with disabilities can truly belong. Rather than offering a one-size-fits-all solution or launching a new program, this episode encourages leaders to shift their attention, challenge their assumptions, and engage the theological and relational work of creating environments where everyone can flourish. If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by the complexity of inclusion or unsure where to start, this conversation offers grounded wisdom, gentle challenge, and hopeful next steps rooted in the heart of God’s kingdom.

Conversation Overview:

• Moving beyond inclusion and into belonging

• The role of leaders in shifting community attention and assumptions

• How disability challenges our theology of brokenness and healing

• Encouragement for leaders to start small, stay present, and notice more

Guest Bio:

Mac McCarthy is a pastor at Crosspoint Community Church near Milwaukee and a coach with The Leader’s Journey, where he helps leaders develop emotionally healthy, systems-aware leadership grounded in their deepest values. Learn more about Mac’s coaching work. Josie McCarthy is a recovery nurse, mother of three, and passionate voice for dignity and connection in the disability community. She brings a grounded, relational perspective rooted in personal experience and deep faith.

Resources Mentioned:

• Mac McCarthy at The Leader’s Journey – Learn more about Mac’s coaching and leadership development.

• Esau McCaulley – Reading While Black – A powerful example of theology from a specific social location.

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