Introduction

Life and leadership inevitably bring seasons of disruption and instability. What do we do when the ground shifts beneath us, and the places we thought were safe no longer hold? In this conversation, Trisha Taylor talks with Rusty Mackey about resilience as a guiding principle—learning to live with instability, to cultivate presence, and to find stability not in circumstances but in God.

Guest Bio

Rusty McKie is a spiritual director, spiritual formation coach, and somatic coach. He is the founder of Steadfast Ministries, where he helps leaders survive and thrive in ministry. Rusty is also the host of The Art of Stability podcast and author of the book The Art of Stability: How Staying Present Changes Everything. His newest initiative, Man School, is a five-year rite of passage curriculum designed to equip fathers to raise their sons into men of character. Rusty lives out his passion for helping leaders and families build resilience through presence, reflection, and spiritual depth.

Conversation Overview

• Guiding principles as steady reference points in instability
• Instability as an invitation from God rather than betrayal
• The link between fragility, resilience, and presence
• The role of lament and compassion in cultivating resilience
• Orientation, disorientation, and reorientation as a cycle of growth
• Noticing our bodies and responses in times of instability
• How personal growth reshapes leadership and relationships

 

Resources

• The Art of Stability
• Steadfast Ministries: steadfastmin.com
• Man School: manschool.co
• The Art of Stability Podcast

Guiding Principles Series - The Leaders Journey Podcast

Integrity in Action: Alligning Words, Promises, and Values 

What does it really mean to live with integrity? In this episode, Jim Herrington and Trisha Taylor unpack the guiding principle of integrity, not as a rigid rule, but as a dynamic, life-giving process. They explore how our words create reality, why honoring our commitments matters, and how integrity helps us align with God’s design for our lives, families, and communities. This conversation offers practical wisdom, honest stories, and a framework for growing integrity in ways that transform relationships and leadership.

Jim Herrington and Trisha Taylor are authors, coaches, and co-founders of The Leader’s Journey. They are passionate about helping leaders grow the inner life and outer skills needed for sustainable leadership. Through coaching, teaching, and honest conversations, they guide individuals and organizations to live into their guiding principles with courage and integrity. Learn more at theleadersjourney.us.

Conversation Overview

• Why guiding principles help us navigate anxiety and stay grounded in our values

• Integrity as more than “being good”

• How our words create expectations and shape reality

• The distinction between keeping our word and honoring our word

• Why we’re designed to make big promises

• A four-step process for “cleaning up messes” when we break our word

• How leaders, families, and communities can cultivate a culture of integrity

• The role of accountability and coaching in growing integrity over time

Join Jim and Trisha as they discuss how we, as the church, can embrace the paradigm shift to a new structure in a church without walls. Their insightful conversation with this week’s guest, Terry Walling, offers a unique perspective on how nomadic believers are truly helping grow the church as they act as disciples within the community.

Terry Walling is a pastor, professor, and author of Unlikely Nomads: In Search of the New Church. He has also launched a podcast series in which he has conversations with a variety of people who are in search of a deeper journey with Jesus and with following Him in a different kind of church in America.

 

Conversation Overview 

-Moving in an Old, New Direction

-The Nomadic Believer

-Personal Renewal that Leads to Corporate Change

-Apprenticing the life of Jesus

-Embracing the Mystery 

 

Resources:

http://leaderbreakthru.com/

Unlikely Nomads by Terry Walling

Canoeing the Mountains by Todd Bolsinger

A Non-Anxious Presence by Mark Sayers

The Great Emergence

 

Podcast Series

The Equations of Ministry: Imagining Beyond the Traditional Church Model

Apprenticing to Jesus

 

Related Blog Posts

Unlikely Nomads: Redefining Church for a Missional Future – Repost   Unlikely Nomads: A Reflection   Unlikely Nomads: Redefining Church for a Missional Future

In Part 2 of this conversation, Trisha Taylor continues her dialogue with Mac and Josie McCarthy, diving deeper into what it means to lead churches and communities where people with disabilities can truly belong. Rather than offering a one-size-fits-all solution or launching a new program, this episode encourages leaders to shift their attention, challenge their assumptions, and engage the theological and relational work of creating environments where everyone can flourish. If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed by the complexity of inclusion or unsure where to start, this conversation offers grounded wisdom, gentle challenge, and hopeful next steps rooted in the heart of God’s kingdom.

Conversation Overview:

• Moving beyond inclusion and into belonging

• The role of leaders in shifting community attention and assumptions

• How disability challenges our theology of brokenness and healing

• Encouragement for leaders to start small, stay present, and notice more

Guest Bio:

Mac McCarthy is a pastor at Crosspoint Community Church near Milwaukee and a coach with The Leader’s Journey, where he helps leaders develop emotionally healthy, systems-aware leadership grounded in their deepest values. Learn more about Mac’s coaching work. Josie McCarthy is a recovery nurse, mother of three, and passionate voice for dignity and connection in the disability community. She brings a grounded, relational perspective rooted in personal experience and deep faith.

Resources Mentioned:

• Mac McCarthy at The Leader’s Journey – Learn more about Mac’s coaching and leadership development.

• Esau McCaulley – Reading While Black – A powerful example of theology from a specific social location.

• Find The Leader’s Journey on YouTube
• Subscribe to The Leader's Journey Newsletter

In this episode of The Leader’s Journey Podcast, Trisha Taylor is joined by Mac and Josie McCarthy for a deeply honest conversation on disability, faith, and the church. Sharing their journey as parents of a child with Down syndrome, Mac and Josie open up about the grief, growth, and spiritual reframing they experienced, and how it has changed the way they see God, themselves, and their community. Together, they challenge us to move beyond pity and mere inclusion toward presence, dignity, and belonging, recognizing the gifts individuals with disabilities bring to the body of Christ. Whether you are a parent, pastor, or community leader, this episode will encourage and challenge you to see disability not as a problem to fix, but as a call to deeper love and interdependence.

Mac McCarthy is the lead pastor of Crosspoint Community Church near Milwaukee and a coach with The Leader’s Journey, where he helps leaders build emotionally healthy, systems-aware communities rooted in Christian values. Learn more about Mac’s coaching work here.

Josie McCarthy is a nurse, mother of three, and passionate advocate for recognizing the dignity and gifts of individuals with disabilities, bringing practical wisdom and deep faith to this conversation.

Conversation Overview:

• Moving through grief and acceptance after a disability diagnosis

• How disability challenges and reframes our theology and expectations

• The way Jesus sees and engages individuals with disabilities

• From pity to presence

• The pitfalls of prejudice, disability blindness, and transactional service

• Seeing individuals with disabilities as vital, gifted members of the church

• Navigating the tension between challenge and joy in disability

• Encouragement for leaders feeling overwhelmed in creating spaces of belonging

Resources:

• Mac McCarthy at The Leader’s Journey – Learn more about Mac’s coaching and leadership development work.

• Zoom Dialogue on Disability (July 24 at 1:00 PM Central) – A live dialogue with Mac and Josie exploring how leaders can practically engage these conversations.

• Disability Theology (to be explored in Part 2) – A framework for understanding faith and disability in the church.

• Find The Leader's Journey on YouTube

Dive a little deeper into the conversation pertaining to disability by reading these recommended books:  

• Amy Kenny's My Body Is Not a Prayer Request 
• Nancy Eiesland's The Disabled God

Organizations that equip churches to be places of inclusion & belonging:

• Key Ministry -- https://keyministry.org
• SOAR -- https://soarspecialneeds.org

In this candid bonus episode of The Leader’s Journey Podcast, Trisha Taylor, Michael DeRidder, and Aundrea Baker open up an honest conversation about the realities of abuse and misconduct within faith communities and organizations. Sharing insights from their ongoing learning, including reflections from a recent conference, the team explores the power dynamics, cultural patterns, and systemic issues that allow abuse to occur and persist. They discuss the deep wounds left in individuals and communities, the need for preemptive culture work, and the essential role of leaders in creating environments of safety and accountability. If you are leading or serving in a church or organization, this conversation will challenge and equip you to think differently about prevention, response, and healing when abuse surfaces.

Trisha Taylor, Michael DeRuyter, and Aundrea Baker are coaches with The Leader’s Journey, where they guide individuals, teams, and organizations toward emotionally healthy, systems-aware leadership rooted in Christian values. They bring deep experience in walking alongside leaders navigating crises and transformation, helping communities engage challenging conversations with courage, clarity, and care.

Conversation Overview:

• The weight of healing and the need for shared responsibility

• How power dynamics and organizational culture enable abuse

• The myth of exceptionalism and its role in silencing victims

• Why systems thinking is critical for addressing abuse

• The importance of leaders creating cultures of safety and openness

• Moving from protecting perpetrators to caring for survivors

• Preemptive culture-building as abuse prevention

Resources:

• Being Human: Podcast with Chuck and Steve

• https://churchcares.com/
• Find Aundrea Baker and Michael DeRuyter on The Leader’s Journey
• Extraordinary Relationships by Roberta Gilbert – Framework on systems thinking, including the concepts of being separate, equal, and open in relationships and organizations.

In this episode of The Leader’s Journey Podcast, Jim Harrington is joined by coaches Rick Rorick and Nate Pyle to unpack what culture actually means within a church or organization—and why it matters more than we think. Together, they explore why “culture eats strategy for breakfast,” how culture shapes daily experiences for staff and volunteers, and how leaders can take intentional steps to build a healthy, life-giving environment that aligns with their values. If you’ve felt stuck in your church or organization’s culture, or if you’re wondering how to lead meaningful change, this conversation will give you both clarity and courage to take your next faithful steps.

Rick Rorick is a Leader’s Journey coach with decades of leadership in the business world, including at Invesco and Coca-Cola, bringing a passion for helping leaders and organizations build healthy, effective cultures. Nate Pyle is the pastor of Christ Community Church in Fishers, Indiana, and the author of Man Enough and More Than You Can Handle. He coaches leaders to cultivate emotionally healthy systems within their teams and churches, helping them navigate change with integrity and clarity.

Conversation Overview:

• The true definition of culture

• Navigating the gap between aspirational values and lived experiences

• How addressing mistakes and conflicts builds healthier culture

• Why building culture requires personal transformation from leaders

• Why culture work is hard and why coaching is essential for lasting change

  Resources Mentioned:

• Man Enough by Nate Pyle

• More Than You Can Handle by Nate Pyle

• The Leader’s Journey 

In this episode of The Leader’s Journey Podcast, Jim sits down with Houston-area pastor Melissa Emerson to explore what it means to live faithfully in the midst of deep church change. After stepping into leadership of Mosaic Community Covenant Church following her father’s sudden passing, Melissa and her husband have led their community through a nomadic, experimental journey—redefining what church can be in the most diverse suburb in the U.S. With honesty, wisdom, and a heart for justice, Melissa shares what it’s been like to shed institutional expectations, rediscover community, and follow the Spirit’s leading in uncharted territory. If you’ve ever felt disillusioned with “church as usual,” or if you’re discerning a new way forward, this conversation offers courage and clarity for the road ahead.

Melissa Lee Emerson is a third generation Chinese American woman co-pastoring Mosaic Community Covenant Church with her husband. Mosaic meets at a YMCA in the most diverse suburban county in the United States. Passionate about the intersection of faith and justice, Melissa dedicates her energy to the church, to Mosaic Learning Center, and raising her two daughters. She has a masters of divinity from North Park Theological Seminary with an emphasis on intercultural ministry and a bachelors in psychology with an emphasis on sociology and human development. She enjoys multicultural learning spaces and trips, especially if food is involved. 

Conversation Overview:

• The shift from institutional church to a nomadic, mission-focused church

• Creative approaches to discernment 

• Developing missional partnerships

• Embracing Unlearning

• Rebuilding culture: resisting performance-driven worship and prioritizing outreach

• The role of emotional maturity, spiritual formation, and slowing down in adaptive leadership

 

Resources: 

• Mosaic Covenant Community Church

• Unlikely Nomads: In Search of the New Church by Terry Walling A prophetic and pastoral look at the shifting landscape of the North American Church and how leaders are navigating toward new expressions of faith.

• Shattered Dreams – a sermon by Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. A profound reflection on disappointment, surrender, and trusting God’s larger purpose through unfulfilled expectations.

• Acts 1:8 Model A biblical framework used to guide outreach and mission—beginning in one’s immediate community (“Jerusalem”) and expanding outward to the world.

• Dwelling in the Word (Lectio Divina) A contemplative practice of reading Scripture in community with an emphasis on spiritual listening and discernment.

• Nomads in the Changing Church - The Leader's Journey Podcast 
• Find The Leader's Journey on YouTube!

In this episode of The Leader’s Journey Podcast, host Trisha Taylor is joined by coach and colleague Aundrea Baker for a rich and practical conversation about self-awareness and the Enneagram. Together, they explore how understanding the inner motivations behind our behavior can lead to personal growth, deeper compassion, and stronger team dynamics. Whether you're new to the Enneagram or a long-time student, this episode offers insightful reflections and practical tools to help you better understand yourself and others.

Aundrea Baker is a leadership coach with The Leader’s Journey, bringing deep experience in church leadership, nonprofit work, and pastoral ministry. A former co-pastor and nonprofit founder, Aundrea holds a doctorate and has spent the past decade exploring the transformative power of the Enneagram. She lives in the Houston area and works alongside her husband Warwick, who is also part of the team.

Key Points:

• Self-awareness is foundational for growth, especially in leadership.

• The Enneagram offers language and insight into our inner motivations—not just behaviors.

• Aundrea's personal journey with the Enneagram began during a season of burnout and transition.

• Misidentifying one’s type is common; deeper exploration often reveals more accurate insights.

• Understanding your type can foster self-compassion and reduce judgment.

• The Enneagram helps coaches and clients uncover unconscious motivations and internal narratives.

• It’s a dynamic system—growth is possible by accessing other traits and motivations.

• Team dynamics benefit when members understand each other's types and communication styles.

• Awareness of triads (assertive, compliant, withdrawing) can improve collaboration and reduce misunderstandings.

• Compassion is key: the Enneagram should be a tool for empathy, not judgment.

Resources: 

The Narrative Enneagram :https://www.narrativeenneagram.org/  -This is the organization in which Aundrea received her training. They have an online test, information about each type on the website, and conduct regular online training. For more information on the Hornevian Triad, see The Enneagram Map to Your Deeper Self: Living Beyond Your Type by Sandra Smith. -This book also offers basic Enneagram info with practices, blessings, and prayers. The Enneagram for Black Liberation: Return to Who You Are Beneath the Armor You Carry by ChiChi Agorom Finding Freedom: Understanding Our Relationships Using Object Relations and the Enneagram by Belinda Gore The Road Back to You by Suzanne Stabile and Ian Morgan Cron The Enneagram for Spiritual Formation by AJ Sherrill

 

View this episode on YouTube

In this episode, Jim and Mike explore how Bowen Family Systems Theory offers powerful tools for leading in times of uncertainty and anxiety. Drawing on personal stories—including parenting a child with trauma, navigating racial and cultural dynamics in St. Croix, and caring for a spouse with Alzheimer’s—they discuss how guiding principles, curiosity, humor, and staying connected help leaders function in the face of anxiety rather than be driven by it. They reflect on the necessity of running experiments when off the map, and why leadership today demands skills more like map-making than map-reading.

Key Topics

• Anxiety is not something to eliminate, but to manage

• Functioning in the face of anxiety with guiding principles

• Managing anxiety to access guiding principles

• The value of humor in anxious situations

• Curiosity as an antidote to anxiety

• Seeing the system and yourself in it

• Resistance is part of adaptive change

• Running experiments when off the map

• Coaching and community as support for off-map leadership

 

Resources

https://www.thebowencenter.org/

Watch this episode on YouTube!