In this episode, Jim and Mike explore how Bowen Family Systems Theory offers powerful tools for leading in times of uncertainty and anxiety. Drawing on personal stories—including parenting a child with trauma, navigating racial and cultural dynamics in St. Croix, and caring for a spouse with Alzheimer’s—they discuss how guiding principles, curiosity, humor, and staying connected help leaders function in the face of anxiety rather than be driven by it. They reflect on the necessity of running experiments when off the map, and why leadership today demands skills more like map-making than map-reading.

Key Topics

• Anxiety is not something to eliminate, but to manage

• Functioning in the face of anxiety with guiding principles

• Managing anxiety to access guiding principles

• The value of humor in anxious situations

• Curiosity as an antidote to anxiety

• Seeing the system and yourself in it

• Resistance is part of adaptive change

• Running experiments when off the map

• Coaching and community as support for off-map leadership

 

Resources

https://www.thebowencenter.org/

Watch this episode on YouTube!

 

In this episode of The Leader’s Journey Podcast, Trisha and Jim sit down with coach and educator Dawn Bird to explore the deep emotional and spiritual transformation that can come through Family of Origin work. Through vulnerable storytelling and honest reflection, Dawn shares how doing this work helped her uncover grief, reshape her understanding of her family, and show up differently in every area of her life—from her marriage and parenting to her leadership and coaching. This conversation is a rich, compassionate look at how healing the past creates new freedom in the present—and new hope for the future.

Dawn Bird is a professional coach, facilitator and educator with 9 years of experience in non-profit, business, and healthcare settings. Dawn has an M.A. in Educational Psychology with a concentration in Counseling. Dawn has been involved in Faithwalking for 11 years, first as a participant and then as a coach and facilitator.  Through Faithwalking, she was introduced to Bowen Family Systems theory which has been particularly helpful in her own journey of transformation and in her work with others as well.  Dawn has done extensive Family of Origin work and enjoys leading others through that process as individuals and in groups. She also has training in Internal Family Systems. Dawn lives with her husband, Bill Bird, in northwest Illinois. They have 3 adult children. Dawn enjoys reading, learning, live theatre, and working out on her Peloton.

Conversation Overview

• Starting the Work

• What It Looks Like

• Emotional Differentiation in Action

• Patterns We Inherit

• Siblings & New Conversations

• Grief and Healing

• Showing Up Differently

• Coaching & Accountability

Resources: 

Books

Growing Yourself Up – Jenny Brown

Everything Isn’t Terrible – Kathleen Smith

The Fangirl Life – Kathleen Smith

The Ties That Bind – Peter Steinke

Tools & Courses

Genogram – a tool for mapping multigenerational family patterns

Faithwalking – a spiritual and emotional formation process

Going Home Again – a Family of Origin course led by Dawn (available after completing the 6 Faithwalking modules)

 

Welcome to this episode of The Leader’s Journey Podcast, where we take a deep dive into one of the most foundational — and often fragile — elements of leadership and community: trust. In this extended conversation, we explore how trust gets broken, why it's so emotionally charged, and what it really takes to rebuild it — both in relationships and within organizations. Whether you're a leader trying to repair harm, or someone deciding whether to trust again, this conversation is for you.

Converstation Overview

• Trust is a two-way street: Both parties play a role in either building or breaking trust. It’s not about assigning equal blame, but about seeing the complexity of the system we’re part of.

• There are different kinds of trust: Sincerity, reliability, competence, and care — and naming which one was broken matters.

• The emotional impact matters: It's not enough to just hear feedback; trust repair requires acknowledging and connecting to the pain your actions caused.

• Restoration is mutual: Even after an apology, the other person has to “let it count” for trust to begin to rebuild..

• Trust takes time: Just because someone is trying to change doesn’t mean trust will instantly be restored. Rebuilding is often slow, with regular check-ins along the way.

• Trust yourself: At the end of the day, we each have to develop trust in our own capacity to be okay, even if trust isn’t fully restored with someone else.

Resources

• The Thin Book of Trust by Charles Feltman

• The Leaders Journey Youtube Channel

• Coaching support from The Leader’s Journey team

• The Leaders Journey Blog

"Trust is like the air we breathe -- when it's present, nobody really notices it. When it's absent, everybody notices." Warren Buffett, quoted in Forbes Magazine

Trust is the bedrock of every successful relationship—whether personal, professional, or within a community. In this episode, Jim and Trisha dive deep into what trust really means, why it’s essential, and how to cultivate it. Through real-life stories and insightful discussion, they explore the complexities of trust and how it impacts our daily lives. 

Key Topics Covered:

• The definition of trust and why it’s crucial for relationships
• How trust is built and the common factors that strengthen or weaken it
• The Components of Trust: Care, Sincerity, Reliability, and Competence
• The role of self-awareness in becoming a trustworthy person
• Practical steps to rebuild trust when it’s been broken
• The connection between trust and leadership in personal and professional settings
• Real-life examples of trust in action and lessons we can learn

 

Resources

 

Houston Rodeo mutton busting

The Thin Book of Trust by Charles Feltman

Brene Brown on The Anatomy of Trust

Dare to Lead by Brene Brown

The Speed of Trust by Steven Covey

In this episode, we explore the critical need for men to develop emotional maturity, take personal responsibility, and engage in meaningful self-reflection. Ryan, Aaron, and Trisha delve into how men's work, particularly in groups, can serve as a powerful tool for emotional growth and healthy relationships.

Conversation Overview:

• The Power of Group Work for Emotional Growth
•  
• The Role of Self-Reflection in Relationships
•  
• Acknowledging Women’s Anxiety About Men’s Spaces
•  
• Practical Advice for Emotional Growth
•  
• The Role of Emotional Maturity in Leadership

Links:

• Ryan Donovan at The Leaders Journey. 
•  
• Aaron Fullmer
•  
• Men's Work TX.

In this episode of The Leaders Journey podcast, Jim and Trisha are joined by Reverend Dr. Timothy Scoonover, senior pastor at First Presbyterian Church in Moncks Corner, South Carolina. With over a decade of pastoral experience, Timothy shares how, as an unlikely nomade, he has led his congregation through a journey of adaptive leadership, emotional health, and spiritual formation. Timothy’s story is a powerful reminder that leadership in today’s world is a long, slow process. Through cultivating emotional and spiritual health, investing in personal practices, and creating a community culture that supports one another, leaders can navigate the turbulence of change and conflict.

A native of Knoxville, Tennessee, Timothy graduated from the University of Tennessee with a Bachelor of Science in Human Services.  He received his Master of Divinity from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in South Hamilton, Massachusetts, where he was awarded as the Walters Preaching Scholar. Timothy married his high school sweetheart, Ashley, and they have two sons, Cooper and Micah. He is passionate about church renewal, making disciples, University of Tennessee sports, tennis, coffee, and time with family.

Key Highlights:

• The Power of Experiments in Leadership:
• Modeling Vulnerability and Emotional Health
• The Role of Language in Leadership
• Apprenticeship to Jesus in a Changing World
• Community Support and Leadership

Resources:

• https://firstpcmonckscorner.org/
• The Leaders Journey website.

 

Join The Leader's Journey team as they explore what it means to ride the waevs of reactivity and and how those waves have shaped their experiences and goals to improve.  a reflective conversation about reactivity—how it shows up in our lives, how we manage it, and what we’re learning in the process. Tricia and the team explore personal stories of how they’ve navigated emotional waves in their own lives—from time management struggles to family dynamics and professional challenges. With reflections from team members Jim Herrington, Rick Rarick, Dawn Bird, Chad Jaeger, and Edie Lenz, this episode offers practical wisdom for anyone looking to stay grounded amidst life’s inevitable anxieties and lead with greater awareness and intention.

Conversation Overview

Jim Herrington on Asking for Help

Rick Rarick on learning to adapt

Dawn Bird on Feeling, Acknowledging, and Managing Reactivity

Chad Jaeger on Letting Other People Grow

Edie Lenz on Learning to Stand Still and Wait

 

References

Kathleen Smith:  Everything Isn't Terrible: Conquer Your Insecurities, Interrupt Your Anxieties and Finally Calm Down    True to You: A Therapist's Guide to Stop Pleasing Others and Start Being Yourself    Kathleen Smith's substack The Anxious Overachiever   Oliver Burkeman: Four Thousand Weeks: Time Management for Mortals

In this episode of The Leader's Journey Podcast, Trisha Taylor, along with Nate Pyle, Matt McCarthy, and Katie Ignatowski, dive into part three of the politics series exploring the challenges of division and leadership in polarized times. While the focus isn't on the U.S. election specifically, the discussion addresses the broader implications of division in churches, workplaces, and communities. With returning guests Nate Pyle and Matt McCarthy, and new voice Katie Ignatowski, this episode provides insights into how leaders can foster dialogue, perspective-taking, and emotional maturity in their communities.

Nate Pyle: A pastor and member of The Leader's Journey team, Nate brings a wealth of experience in guiding congregations through challenging conversations and promoting emotional maturity in leadership.

Matt McCarthy: Another seasoned leader and pastor, Matt focuses on creating opportunities for embodying the politics of Jesus at the local level, emphasizing community engagement and kingdom work.

Katie Ignatowski: An executive director with a legal background, Katie has held significant roles in politics and compliance in Wisconsin. She brings a fresh perspective to the team, blending her expertise in law and leadership with a commitment to grace-filled and truth-centered dialogue.

Key Points

• Polarization and Leadership: The team explores the challenges leaders face in divided environments, highlighting the need to balance empathy and challenge.

• Holding Tension: Insights on navigating complexity, resisting oversimplification, and fostering productive conversations.

• Media Literacy: Discussing the importance of critical thinking and diversifying sources to navigate "two different realities" shaped by media consumption.

• Emotional Maturity: How leaders can grow their own emotional maturity and guide their communities towards it as a critical discipleship practice.

• Engaging Locally: The value of focusing on local action and influence as a means to foster meaningful change and embody the politics of Jesus.

• Guiding Principles: The role of guiding principles in making decisions, holding convictions, and navigating polarized contexts.

Resource Links

• The Leader's Journey Coaching Team

• Miroslav Volf: "Exclusion and Embrace"

• Playing Politics, Leading in an Election Year Part 1
• Playing Politics, Leading in an Election Year, Part 2

 

 

The following episode originally aired in July of 2022. You can find the rest of that coaching series here: 

The Leader as a Coach: Developing People

The Leader as a Coach: Being Coachable 

 

The five skills that leaders can start to work on today to become more effective leaders through coaching are deep listening, inquiry, giving clear feedback, guiding focus, and doing your own work. 

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Leaders who learn to lead through coaching and who develop a culture of coaching in their organization will effectively raise up people who can consistently be the healthiest, most effective version of themselves and do their best work.

Conversation Overview

• Coaching is "deliberately providing a safe and challenging environment where change is possible"
• Deep listening
• "Being profoundly heard by another person is a transformative experience." – Jim Herrington
• "The experience of being deeply listened to makes us different." – Trisha Taylor
• Inquiry
• One reason we get bored listening is because we're not actively asking questions. We're not really all that curious, we're busy, and we're distracted. 
• Giving clear feedback
• Guiding focus
• Part of the skill of guiding focus is helping people pay attention to the things they need to be paying attention to.
• Doing your own work

Links: 

• The Leader As Coach: Developing People
• Giving and receiving feedback
• Defined and Connected
• Learning is Imperative for Effective Leadership: Part 1
• Two Feet Walking Workbook
• Coaching description on our website
• Our Love Hate Relationship with Goals (podcast episode)
• Two Feet Walking Podcast Series

Thank you for listening. If you enjoy listening to The Leader’s Journey Podcast, the best way to support us is to take just a few seconds and leave a rating and/or comment over on iTunes or share it with your friends on Facebook … Thank you!

In this episode of The Leader's Journey Podcast, Trisha Taylor sits down with Mandy Smith, a gifted pastor, artist, and author of Confessions of an Amateur Saint. Together, they discuss the deep challenges Christian leaders face, the journey of faithfulness over success, and the importance of embracing weakness as a pathway to strength. Mandy shares her insights on how leaders, particularly in faith communities, often find themselves caught between the desire for competence and the necessity of surrendering to God’s guidance. Through personal stories and deep reflection, this episode invites leaders to embrace vulnerability and trust God with their limitations.

Mandy Smith is the pastor of St. Lucia Uniting Church in Australia and the author of Confessions of an Amateur Saint. With a unique blend of pastoral leadership, artistic expression, and deep theological insight, Mandy serves as a voice of compassion and clarity for leaders seeking to integrate faith with everyday life. She is also associated with the Eugene Peterson Center for Christian Imagination. Mandy’s creative and thoughtful approach to ministry continues to inspire leaders to lead with authenticity and dependence on God.

Key Points:

• The Role of Faithful Leadership: Mandy reflects on the tension between striving for professional competence and the call to lead with faith and reliance on God.
• Faith Over Competence: Leadership isn't about having all the answers; it's about modeling the need for God. Mandy talks about how, as leaders, we are called to admit our limitations and trust God’s power to work through us.
• The Confession of Leadership: The act of confession is integral to faithful leadership. It involves not only acknowledging our weaknesses but also reaffirming our trust in God despite those weaknesses.
• The Struggle with Human Limitation: Mandy shares her experience of being thrust into leadership roles that challenged her competencies, and how leaning into vulnerability rather than striving for control has been both humbling and healing.
• The Invitation to Lead Authentically: By embracing human limitations, leaders can create space for God’s strength to shine. Mandy challenges leaders to stop hiding their weaknesses and to model dependence on God for the benefit of those they lead.

Resources:

The Vulnerable Pastor: How Human Limitations Empower Our Ministry

Unfettered: Imagining a Childlike Faith Beyond the Baggage of Western Culture

Confessions of an Amateur Saint: The Christian Leader's Journey from Self-sufficiency to Relying on God

Mandy's website: The Way is the Way

The Eugene Peterson Center for Christian Imagination