In this episode of The Leader's Journey Podcast, Edie Lenz is joined by Ken Eriks and Chelsey Harmon of Churches Learning Change for a rich conversation about the power of mental models in congregational life. They explore what mental models are, how they shape the way churches function, and why unearthing and reforming them is essential for leading meaningful, lasting change. Through stories, examples, and practical processes, they describe how congregations can move from feeling stuck to discovering clarity, creativity, and a shared path forward. Conversation Overview

• What Mental Models Are and Why They Matter

• Different Perspectives and Conflicting Assumptions

• Why Churches Engage Mental Models Work

• Competing Models in a Congregation

• Unearthing Mental Models in Community

• Congregational Practices for Surfacing Mental Models

• Experimentation as a Pathway to Learning

• Reforming and Rooting New Mental Models

• Why This Work Takes Time, Reflection, and Community

• How to Connect With Churches Learning Change

Edie Lenz, Ken Ericks, and Chelsey Harmon are the staff of Churches Learning Change (CLC), an organization dedicated to helping congregations engage deep change through adaptive leadership, reflective practice, and intentional learning communities. Through coaching, content curation, and process facilitation, they equip churches to unearth, test, and reform the mental models shaping their life together. Their work integrates theology, systems thinking, and practical tools to support leaders and congregations seeking clarity, transformation, and renewed imagination. Resources: Churches Learning Change Learn more about Chelsey Harmon Edie Lenz at The Leader's Journey Learn more about Ken Eriks

In this episode of The Leader's Journey Podcast, Jim Harrington sits down with pastor and coach Mac McCarthy to explore how emotional intelligence shapes the life of a leader and the health of a congregation. Together, they discuss what emotional intelligence truly means, why it's essential for spiritual formation, and how leaders can embody and cultivate it within their teams and churches. Through real stories and practical insight, they invite listeners to see emotional maturity as a lifelong journey of formation and courage.

Mac McCarthy is a coach with The Leader's Journey and the lead pastor of Crosspoint Community Church in the Milwaukee area. He has served in ministry since 2008 and is known for his thoughtful integration of emotional maturity, discipleship, and leadership development. Mac also hosts the Praxis podcast, where he explores faith and practice in everyday life.

Conversation Overview

• Defining Emotional Intelligence and Why It Matters
• Jesus as the Model of Emotional Maturity
• Practicing What You Teach
• From Learning to Practicing to Reflecting
• Building Emotionally Intelligent Cultures
• Creating Shared Language and Playful Learning
• Leadership Practices for Growth
• Navigating Conflict with Maturity
• The Long Work of Formation
• Encouragement for the Journey

Resources Mentioned

• Emotional Intelligence by Daniel Goleman
• A Failure of Nerve by Edwin H. Friedman
• The Leader's Journey: Accepting the Call to Personal and Congregational Transformation by Jim Herrington, Trisha Taylor, and R. Robert Creech
• Praxis Podcast by Crosspoint Community Church
• Emotional Intelligence Dialogue – November 11, 11:30–12:30 PM CST

In this episode of The Leader's Journey Podcast, Trisha Taylor and Michael DeRuyter explore empathy as a guiding principle for leaders. Is empathy always a strength, or can it sometimes get in the way? Through stories, humor, and systems thinking, they unpack what empathy really is, why it is often misunderstood, and how mature empathy helps us stay grounded, connected, and responsible. This conversation invites leaders to move beyond reactive compassion toward empathy that sustains courage, clarity, and truth.

Conversation Overview

• Redefining Empathy
• Empathy, Sympathy, and Emotional Fusion
• The Role of Perspective and Curiosity
• Empathy and Systems Thinking
• Boundaries, Responsibility, and Courage

Resources Mentioned

• A Failure of Nerve by Edwin H. Friedman
• Dare to Lead by Brené Brown
• Empathy Zoom Dialogue – October 21

What does it mean to be truly welcoming? In this episode of The Leader's Journey Podcast, Trisha Taylor is joined by author and spiritual director Laura Murray to explore welcome as a guiding principle for life and leadership. Together they unpack how hospitality goes deeper than surface-level friendliness, why boundaries are essential to real welcome, and how leaders can create environments of safety, curiosity, and belonging. This conversation will inspire you to rethink what welcome looks like in your home, your leadership, and your community.

Laura Murray is a minister, author, and spiritual director who brings faith formation into the digital space through her innovative work with online retreats and resources. She is passionate about integrating ideas, connecting people, and releasing the gifts of others. Her newest book, Becoming a Person of Welcome, explores what it means to embody hospitality in ways that are healthy, grounded, and transformative. Learn more about Laura's work, including her retreats and resources, at laurabmurray.com.

Conversation Overview

• Welcome as more than friendliness

• Why genuine welcome requires boundaries and limits

• Protecting both people and purpose in our communities

• The grief and gift of acknowledging our limitations

• Learning to welcome our own humanity before we can welcome others

• Endings, closure, and repair as essential parts of welcome

• The multiplying effect of welcome beyond ourselves

• How God's welcome shapes the way we welcome others

Resources Mentioned

• Becoming a Person of Welcome by Laura Murray

• LauraBMurray.com

• The Leader's Journey Coaching

Introduction

Life and leadership inevitably bring seasons of disruption and instability. What do we do when the ground shifts beneath us, and the places we thought were safe no longer hold? In this conversation, Trisha Taylor talks with Rusty Mackey about resilience as a guiding principle—learning to live with instability, to cultivate presence, and to find stability not in circumstances but in God.

Guest Bio

Rusty McKie is a spiritual director, spiritual formation coach, and somatic coach. He is the founder of Steadfast Ministries, where he helps leaders survive and thrive in ministry. Rusty is also the host of The Art of Stability podcast and author of the book The Art of Stability: How Staying Present Changes Everything. His newest initiative, Man School, is a five-year rite of passage curriculum designed to equip fathers to raise their sons into men of character. Rusty lives out his passion for helping leaders and families build resilience through presence, reflection, and spiritual depth.

Conversation Overview

• Guiding principles as steady reference points in instability
• Instability as an invitation from God rather than betrayal
• The link between fragility, resilience, and presence
• The role of lament and compassion in cultivating resilience
• Orientation, disorientation, and reorientation as a cycle of growth
• Noticing our bodies and responses in times of instability
• How personal growth reshapes leadership and relationships

Resources

• The Art of Stability
• Steadfast Ministries: steadfastmin.com
• Man School: manschool.co
• The Art of Stability Podcast

Guiding Principles Series - The Leaders Journey Podcast

Integrity in Action: Alligning Words, Promises, and Values

What does it really mean to live with integrity? In this episode, Jim Herrington and Trisha Taylor unpack the guiding principle of integrity, not as a rigid rule, but as a dynamic, life-giving process. They explore how our words create reality, why honoring our commitments matters, and how integrity helps us align with God's design for our lives, families, and communities. This conversation offers practical wisdom, honest stories, and a framework for growing integrity in ways that transform relationships and leadership.

Jim Herrington and Trisha Taylor are authors, coaches, and co-founders of The Leader's Journey. They are passionate about helping leaders grow the inner life and outer skills needed for sustainable leadership. Through coaching, teaching, and honest conversations, they guide individuals and organizations to live into their guiding principles with courage and integrity. Learn more at theleadersjourney.us.

Conversation Overview

• Why guiding principles help us navigate anxiety and stay grounded in our values

• Integrity as more than "being good"

• How our words create expectations and shape reality

• The distinction between keeping our word and honoring our word

• Why we're designed to make big promises

• A four-step process for "cleaning up messes" when we break our word

• How leaders, families, and communities can cultivate a culture of integrity

• The role of accountability and coaching in growing integrity over time

Join Jim and Trisha as they discuss how we, as the church, can embrace the paradigm shift to a new structure in a church without walls. Their insightful conversation with this week's guest, Terry Walling, offers a unique perspective on how nomadic believers are truly helping grow the church as they act as disciples within the community.

Terry Walling is a pastor, professor, and author of Unlikely Nomads: In Search of the New Church. He has also launched a podcast series in which he has conversations with a variety of people who are in search of a deeper journey with Jesus and with following Him in a different kind of church in America.

Conversation Overview

-Moving in an Old, New Direction

-The Nomadic Believer

-Personal Renewal that Leads to Corporate Change

-Apprenticing the life of Jesus

-Embracing the Mystery

Resources:

http://leaderbreakthru.com/

Unlikely Nomads by Terry Walling

Canoeing the Mountains by Todd Bolsinger

A Non-Anxious Presence by Mark Sayers

The Great Emergence

Podcast Series

The Equations of Ministry: Imagining Beyond the Traditional Church Model

Apprenticing to Jesus

Related Blog Posts

Unlikely Nomads: Redefining Church for a Missional Future – Repost Unlikely Nomads: A Reflection Unlikely Nomads: Redefining Church for a Missional Future

In Part 2 of this conversation, Trisha Taylor continues her dialogue with Mac and Josie McCarthy, diving deeper into what it means to lead churches and communities where people with disabilities can truly belong. Rather than offering a one-size-fits-all solution or launching a new program, this episode encourages leaders to shift their attention, challenge their assumptions, and engage the theological and relational work of creating environments where everyone can flourish. If you've ever felt overwhelmed by the complexity of inclusion or unsure where to start, this conversation offers grounded wisdom, gentle challenge, and hopeful next steps rooted in the heart of God's kingdom.

Conversation Overview:

• Moving beyond inclusion and into belonging

• The role of leaders in shifting community attention and assumptions

• How disability challenges our theology of brokenness and healing

• Encouragement for leaders to start small, stay present, and notice more

Guest Bio:

Mac McCarthy is a pastor at Crosspoint Community Church near Milwaukee and a coach with The Leader's Journey, where he helps leaders develop emotionally healthy, systems-aware leadership grounded in their deepest values. Learn more about Mac's coaching work. Josie McCarthy is a recovery nurse, mother of three, and passionate voice for dignity and connection in the disability community. She brings a grounded, relational perspective rooted in personal experience and deep faith.

Resources Mentioned:

• Mac McCarthy at The Leader's Journey – Learn more about Mac's coaching and leadership development.

• Esau McCaulley – Reading While Black – A powerful example of theology from a specific social location.

• Find The Leader's Journey on YouTube
• Subscribe to The Leader's Journey Newsletter

In this episode of The Leader's Journey Podcast, Trisha Taylor is joined by Mac and Josie McCarthy for a deeply honest conversation on disability, faith, and the church. Sharing their journey as parents of a child with Down syndrome, Mac and Josie open up about the grief, growth, and spiritual reframing they experienced, and how it has changed the way they see God, themselves, and their community. Together, they challenge us to move beyond pity and mere inclusion toward presence, dignity, and belonging, recognizing the gifts individuals with disabilities bring to the body of Christ. Whether you are a parent, pastor, or community leader, this episode will encourage and challenge you to see disability not as a problem to fix, but as a call to deeper love and interdependence.

Mac McCarthy is the lead pastor of Crosspoint Community Church near Milwaukee and a coach with The Leader's Journey, where he helps leaders build emotionally healthy, systems-aware communities rooted in Christian values. Learn more about Mac's coaching work here.

Josie McCarthy is a nurse, mother of three, and passionate advocate for recognizing the dignity and gifts of individuals with disabilities, bringing practical wisdom and deep faith to this conversation.

Conversation Overview:

• Moving through grief and acceptance after a disability diagnosis

• How disability challenges and reframes our theology and expectations

• The way Jesus sees and engages individuals with disabilities

• From pity to presence

• The pitfalls of prejudice, disability blindness, and transactional service

• Seeing individuals with disabilities as vital, gifted members of the church

• Navigating the tension between challenge and joy in disability

• Encouragement for leaders feeling overwhelmed in creating spaces of belonging

Resources:

• Mac McCarthy at The Leader's Journey – Learn more about Mac's coaching and leadership development work.

• Zoom Dialogue on Disability (July 24 at 1:00 PM Central) – A live dialogue with Mac and Josie exploring how leaders can practically engage these conversations.

• Disability Theology (to be explored in Part 2) – A framework for understanding faith and disability in the church.

• Find The Leader's Journey on YouTube

Dive a little deeper into the conversation pertaining to disability by reading these recommended books:

• Amy Kenny's My Body Is Not a Prayer Request
• Nancy Eiesland's The Disabled God

Organizations that equip churches to be places of inclusion & belonging:

• Key Ministry -- https://keyministry.org
• SOAR -- https://soarspecialneeds.org

In this candid bonus episode of The Leader's Journey Podcast, Trisha Taylor, Michael DeRidder, and Aundrea Baker open up an honest conversation about the realities of abuse and misconduct within faith communities and organizations. Sharing insights from their ongoing learning, including reflections from a recent conference, the team explores the power dynamics, cultural patterns, and systemic issues that allow abuse to occur and persist. They discuss the deep wounds left in individuals and communities, the need for preemptive culture work, and the essential role of leaders in creating environments of safety and accountability. If you are leading or serving in a church or organization, this conversation will challenge and equip you to think differently about prevention, response, and healing when abuse surfaces.

Trisha Taylor, Michael DeRuyter, and Aundrea Baker are coaches with The Leader's Journey, where they guide individuals, teams, and organizations toward emotionally healthy, systems-aware leadership rooted in Christian values. They bring deep experience in walking alongside leaders navigating crises and transformation, helping communities engage challenging conversations with courage, clarity, and care.

Conversation Overview:

• The weight of healing and the need for shared responsibility

• How power dynamics and organizational culture enable abuse

• The myth of exceptionalism and its role in silencing victims

• Why systems thinking is critical for addressing abuse

• The importance of leaders creating cultures of safety and openness

• Moving from protecting perpetrators to caring for survivors

• Preemptive culture-building as abuse prevention

Resources:

• Being Human: Podcast with Chuck and Steve

• https://churchcares.com/
• Find Aundrea Baker and Michael DeRuyter on The Leader's Journey
• Extraordinary Relationships by Roberta Gilbert – Framework on systems thinking, including the concepts of being separate, equal, and open in relationships and organizations.