Shaun and Jason have a conversation about some of the major themes and projects that Shaun has been developing in collaboration with others, including Dark Optimism, Lean Logic, and Surviving the Future. They discuss biophysical collapse, the prefiguration of what comes after, what the trajectories of George Monbiot and Paul Kingsnorth indicate about the larger society, how Doomer Optimism follows in the footsteps and shares an affinity with Dark Optimism but with an American sensibility, and much more

Shaun’s Bio: Shaun quit his job in 2005 to explore full-time the beliefs and 'myths’ charting society's course towards collapse. And, in particular, how we might - individually or collectively - change direction before we end up where we are headed. He collaborated closely with the late David Fleming, later bringing his award-winning 'Lean Logic' and 'Surviving the Future' to posthumous publication, and now leads Sterling College's online program ‘Surviving the Future: Conversations for Our Time’, grounded in the books. He co-founded Transition Town Kingston and in 2009 authored the Transition movement’s second book, before becoming chair of the Ecological Land Co-operative and, later, one of Extinction Rebellion's first arrestees. Meanwhile, he puts the theory into practice as one of six custodians of Ireland's legendary free pub and land-based community 'The Happy Pig'. Website: http://darkoptimism.org The Happy Pig: http://mstdn.social/@DarkOptimism/109410285273214948… ‘Surviving the Future: Conversations for Our Time’ online programs and community through Vermont's Sterling College: http://ce.sterlingcollege.edu/surviving-the-future… Books: http://darkoptimism.org/books Free access to Lean Logic in full: http://leanlogic.online Shaun’s personal mailing list: http://flemingpolicycentre.org.uk/newsletter/