Doomer Optimism

An old friend to the show, once maybe a foe for a while, back into friendly territory: Michael Thomas the Director of The Catholic Land Movement. I (Ashley) met Mike a almost half a decade ago, very early in my twitter days. It’s been a joy to see his vocation develop through the years and I am very glad Jason invited him back on the show.

In this episode, Mike and Jason discuss the development of the movement, Catholic Social Teaching, distributism, dignified work and practical action, the importance of in person connection, vocation, family, and love!

Enjoy!

I met Dwayne at a chance encounter at the Aspen Ideas festival in Chicago which my new buddy Samuel Kimbriel invited me to attend. I was feeling a little lonely and alienated there, lots of technocrats, and up to me walks Dwayne who saw my tag said optimism and he said “I am just about the most optimistic guy you’ll meet!”

I saw his tag from the Southeastern Grasslands Institute and I instantly knew this was someone I’d need to have on the pod. Unsurprisingly I tapped Peter Allen to co-host with me and these two were fast friends! Oak savannah ecosystem nerds unite!

Enjoy this episode!

If you want to support Dwayne’s work, consider attending the Eastern Native Grasslands Symposium conference: https://www.engsymposium.org/home or finding their work here: https://www.segrasslands.org/

I met Stephen this summer at the Woodcrest Bruderhof + DO + Savage Collective event in NY. Alan from Plough suggested Stephen for a panel and he instantly agreed! He gave a fantastic talk about the wonderful characters in his neighborhood, and the very real sense of place that happens when you invite the colorful characters into your life.

He had to run off to a family event after but he and I instantly hit it off and are slowly but surely planning a DO + Cracks in Pomo event in Manhattan, once we find the right format and speakers. In this episode we cover:

Stephen’s background

Postmodernism and the return of religion

Suburban disenchantment

Living tradition vs. traditionalism

Civic life over culture war

The Staten Island saint feast and MAGA

Roots, immigration, and integration

Humor, friction, and HR culture

Subsidiarity and overcentralization

The Catholic Worker and in-person events

Follow Stephen's work at: https://cracksinpomo.substack.com/

Jason initiated this get together of some of the original DO crew to discuss the life, work and legacy of Wendell Berry. It is no secret that Berry’s work has been an animating force for nearly everyone orbiting DO, especially those of us interested in food and ag systems. We discuss not only the legacy of Berry’s nonfiction work — how he suggested the agricultural system would collapse and so far it largely hasn’t, but also his fiction and poetry which actually has a great contribution on love, companionship, and romance.

Every once in a while someone comes into the DO world and it is so clear how well they fit in it’s amazing you hadn’t found them yet! This is true of Mike, Chicagoan, Northsider (boo!), who has a vision for how to make good things in the world and is working to do so.

Right now that looks like a manufacturing business he started, but Mike talks through his whole trajectory from fancy universities, working in politics, Chicago river ship boat captain, to trying to revitalize middle side American cities (with the help of Nick Offerman).

You can support Mike’s work here: www.wilmot-productions.com

This episode explores how Josh and Hannah Centers built Chapter House, a publishing project designed to restore beautiful, culturally literate children’s books to homeschool families. From Homer and Shakespeare to Beowulf, Greek myth, and Our Island Story, they explain why classic literature still matters for forming attention, imagination, and virtue in a distracted age.

They also share the homeschooling experiences that shaped their philosophy, including Hannah’s background as a public school teacher, their journey with a dyslexic child, and why Charlotte Mason’s ideas about habit training and whole-person education continue to guide their work. Josh makes the case that the liberal arts are even more important in the age of AI, while Hannah describes how the right book can open a reluctant reader’s world.

If you care about education, great books, or raising kids with depth and resilience, this conversation offers a thoughtful and hopeful vision for what learning can be.

"But at Least They're Human: Face-to-Face Living -- With Joy and Without Illusions"From the conference: Another Life is Possible co-organized by the Woodcrest Bruderhof community, Doomer Optimism and Savage Collective, July 2026https://doomeroptimism.substack.com/p/do-308-bill-kauffman

Tom and Jason talk to Lenny Wells - pecan farmer and extension agent - about growing pecans in Georgia, the cultural and ecological factors.

Along the way we also discuss:

-how he got into pecans

-his book on pecans

-consulting with a pecan farmer in Spain

-his love for Wendell Berry, and

-fly-fishing in Montana

Enjoy!

In this episode Ashley and Jacob discuss the concept of microcolleges, and examples of alternative educational models writ large.

Timestamps:

00:00 - Intro: Exploring education, community, and sustainability

02:27 - How a class on sustainable development shifted a life trajectory

04:02 - Higher education as transformative yet bureaucratic: a nuanced view

06:20 - The role of micro-colleges as laboratories for alternative education models

08:20 - Microcollege principles: human scale, place-based focus, holistic curriculum

10:12 - Experiential learning in agriculture and sustainability in Uruguay

13:19 - Moving to Uruguay: motivation, land, community, and self-sufficiency

16:26 - The influence of environmental sociology and fieldwork on education

18:13 - Rizoma and regenerative agriculture: connecting resources across bioregions

23:21 - Adapting the Uruguay model to local high schools and legislative advocacy

26:13 - The challenges of bureaucratic hurdles in US-based experiential programs

27:27 - The origins and evolution of Thoreau College in Wisconsin

28:05 - Deep roots in the Driftless region, organic farming, and educational experimentation

29:04 - Waldorf pedagogy, family-centered schooling, and youth leadership

31:51 - Deep Springs College: history, pillars, and self-governance

34:40 - The influence of Nicola Tesla and pioneering education in remote settings

36:27 - The unique, small scale, and community-centered design of Deep Springs and inspired schools

40:34 - Gender, environment, and community: reflections on co-ed versus single-sex models

41:26 - The importance of family and nurturing environments in education communities

43:11 - The role of place-based knowledge and historical understanding in cultivating belonging

45:27 - The holistic curriculum: arts, nature, and expedition-based experiential learning

48:45 - The ethics and profundity of slaughtering animals as a ritual of reverence

50:05 - Broadening perspectives: practical engagement over superficial debates

54:35 - The significance of embodied work, such as farming and outdoor survival skills

55:55 - Building agency through collective effort and sharing tangible skills

62:45 - The impact of experiential and community-based learning on resilience

65:05 - Ideals of subsidiarity and bioregional identity as anchors for local culture

66:39 - The cultural and environmental richness of bioregions like the Driftless

70:47 - The importance of place-based storytelling, native histories, and ecological literacy

75:34 - The power of local, tangible practices versus abstract ideologies

77:26 - The role of shared projects in dissolving superficial divisions

85:12 - Cultivating inner resilience and emotional strength through holistic education

87:11 - Moving from global scale despair to local scale action and empowerment

89:04 - The importance of facing difficulties together and growing through challenge

90:46 - The value of community hubs and bioregional identity in creating hope and agency

Movetonewathens.com

TIMESTAMPS:

00:00 - Introducing the idea of building a city from scratch to address societal doom
02:08 - Jackson’s background in tech and recruitment influencing city planning
03:03 - The role of ambition and ecosystem understanding in city development
06:20 - How tech industry recruitment reveals societal dysfunction and potential solutions
08:39 - The cultural decline: urban decay, regulations, and family disconnection
11:48 - The blueprint for New Athens: promises to residents and leveraging local incentives
15:07 - Examining societal doom: urban chaos, lawlessness, and cultural disintegration
18:19 - Why cities are the optimal size for revival and the role of regulations
19:16 - Ideal demographic makeup: balancing virtue, ambition, and risk-taking
21:49 - Global and regional efforts for renewal: bioregions, state lines, and culture-based organization
26:56 - Practical steps for deregulation and attracting people, businesses, and investors
33:01 - The significance of moral bounds, virtue, and community in city planning
42:50 - The importance of craft manufacturing, local food, and human-scaled urban design
46:47 - Envisioning a human-friendly, tech-lite city culture
52:28 - Population growth, family life, and the cultural mimetic effect
58:40 - The collapse of woke ideology and the rise of anti-tech, pro-human movements
65:00 - AI as a secular religion, the need to maintain human sovereignty and meaningful life
71:01 - The role of technology regulation: keeping devices off the body and emphasizing human presence
76:33 - The dynamics of institution-building, trust, and leadership challenges
83:50 - The archetype of visionary leaders and operational builders for city creation
88:17 - How to follow and support the New Athens project