Easy Prey

Pending legislation mandating cybersecurity representation at the top levels of an organization in a relatively young field and understanding that field are testing the bounds of practical cybersecurity leadership.

Today's guests are Richard Brinson and Rachel Briggs. Richard is an experienced executive, board advisor, and global top 100 Chief Informations Security Officer. He has been providing strategic guidance to many of the world's largest global organizations for over 20 years with core expertise in cybersecurity, technology infrastructure, and enterprise architecture. Richard leads Savanti's cybersecurity practice, helping large organizations to transform and modernize their security functions for the digital age.

Rachel is a leading expert on security and has advised governments and multinational corporations on security, resilience, terrorism, and responses to extremism. She is an Executive Advisor with Savanti and founder and CEO of The Clarity Factory, which provides and arranges services to its clients including research, consultancy, and thought leadership.

• [1:35] - Richard shares his background and what Savanti is known for.
• [2:30] - Rachel works with Richard and his team on thought leadership products.
• [4:01] - Organizations reach out to Savanti and don't know if what they are doing is right or wrong. SISOs seemed to be coming and going.
• [5:35] - There were 6 key factors that were causing this churn in the industry.
• [6:50] - The supply in demand problem for cybersecurity leaders is one issue in retaining professionals as SISOs.
• [8:45] - For every three years, a company is really only moving forward one.
• [10:05] - Rachel shares data that shows the importance of strong cybersecurity and leadership that does it right.
• [12:37] - It's not just about security. It's actually part of a good business model now.
• [14:03] - When cybersecurity isn't a part of leadership, the board's understanding creates a problem with delegating and solving problems.
• [15:20] - Richard is a board advisor on many organizational boards to help with this lack of understanding.
• [16:48] - There are fewer than 100 SISOs with effective boardroom expertise.
• [18:02] - When speaking with SISOs and others in leadership, things are lost in translation.
• [20:28] - We tend to just expect people to be good communicators but it is a skill that needs to be trained.
• [21:43] - There are leadership training companies that organizations can work with to coach a leadership team.
• [23:30] - SISOs can and should be taught to communicate effectively in the boardroom and that should be something the organization provides.
• [25:20] - There is pending legislation that will mandate the requirement of cybersecurity in leadership, but Richard shares some possible problems.
• [27:04] - Savanti helps demystify this problem with communication.
• [28:42] - For smaller companies who cannot afford a full time SISO, fractional SISO roles that are usually virtual are offered by Savanti.
• [31:18] - If an incoming SISO does not have the support of the board, they cannot be effective or successful.
• [32:50] - The turnover rate for this role is quite high.
• [34:02] - Companies who aren't willing to implement recommendations or bring in a qualified SISO leads to a number of costs and risks.
• [36:02] - Changing SISOs so often is destabilizing.
• [37:35] - With solid security, a company can take more business risks safely.
• [40:03] - Regulations can be helpful but not helpful in many ways.
• [41:52] - If you are considering a role as a SISO in leadership, round yourself off as a business leader with effective communication skills.
• [43:53] - You can read the recent report that Richard describes by clicking here.

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Millions have been impacted by data breaches. Many of us know how fraudsters work and how they utilize this information. But our parents and children become victims because of their fear or urgency inflicted by the scammers. Today's guest is Mike Cook. Mike is an entrepreneur with over 30 years of experience working and serving in the financial services, wireless, cable/satellite, and auto financial industries. He has built several data breach applications in compliance, manual verification, and account management solutions.

• [0:56] - Mike shares his background and what he currently does.
• [2:10] - When Mike talked to a fraudster who stole cars, he immediately became interested in fraud and scams.
• [3:47] - Mike's daughter was a victim of a scam and lost a lot of money, but the biggest impact was how fearful she was.
• [6:20] - In years past, fraud was easier to stop, but now everyone's data is available somewhere online.
• [8:04] - Once data is breached, that information can be copied and sold over and over again.
• [9:30] - What is a citizen fraudster?
• [11:01] - Lenders and consumers are both heavily impacted by data breaches.
• [12:31] - As a consumer, you need to listen to every word. If it sounds too good to be true or too scary and urgent, it's a scam.
• [14:08] - It is so easy to click on things without thinking about it.
• [15:19] - Don't ever feel bad about choosing not to give someone information.
• [16:57] - When the economy goes down, fraud goes up.
• [18:55] - Fraud has never been harder to stop, has never been smarter, never been swifter to change patterns. It is on fire right now.
• [20:04] - Covid resulted in everyone moving to remote working, learning, and everything being online. It expedited the growth in fraud.
• [21:22] - Fraud is easier to commit online in a faceless environment.
• [23:46] - Mike is optimistic about upcoming policy changes.
• [25:18] - What is synthetic fraud and what are the impacts for consumers?
• [26:44] - There are ways to create a false identity to get through defenses and commit fraud.
• [28:21] - Synthetic fraud can get through but isn't as hard to stop.
• [29:42] - Stopping fraud for consumers is a huge balancing act for organizations.
• [31:47] - Chris shares a story that shows the work that banks are doing to help mitigate fraud.
• [34:06] - We are going to see a lot more confirmation from organizations, especially financial institutions, to be sure you are not being scammed.
• [37:19] - There are several things we can do to make sure our kids don't experience credit fraud by way of someone using randomly generated numbers.
• [40:21] - There are definitely other legislation needed to protect people from theft and fraud.
• [42:08] - Things that are being done in credit repair need to change in order to protect people.
• [43:58] - The government and the industry work together.
• [45:21] - Over time, fraud trends change. They follow whatever the fastest way to take money is.
• [46:19] - Synthetic fraud is unique in that all of it is completely fake.

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With AI having the ability to search the internet and write a paper, create an image, or even a video having someone say what they didn't say, we can no longer use the phrase that seeing is believing. Today's guest is Peter Sisson. As a serial entrepreneur with a master's in AI from Stanford, Peter is working to fight fake news, fake reviews, and fake products. Misinformation and polarization have exploded since Peter began his career in Silicon Valley more than 20 years ago and his latest company CertifyIt offers an app that can help stop it.

• [1:08] - Peter shares his background in AI and as a serial entrepreneur.
• [3:01] - We believe what we see and it is already getting hard to determine what is real.
• [4:38] - The biggest concern is faking videos and faking images is already happening.
• [6:04] - The technology isn't there yet and usually you can tell when an image or video is fabricated.
• [7:55] - AI has been trained by the entire internet. AI can write anything you want it to, but none of it is original.
• [9:18] - AI doesn't actually know anything. It uses what is already available to learn patterns. Peter explains how it works.
• [11:25] - There are a lot of ethical concerns about using AI to create content.
• [12:51] - News providers use CertifyIt to know that content they release is accurate before they break fake news.
• [14:08] - Peter shares the story of CNN breaking news that wasn't true but really appeared to be accurate.
• [16:16] - How does CertifyIt use metadata to confirm accuracy?
• [18:07] - Chris and Peter discuss some examples of how people need to use CertifyIt, which is a public benefit corporation.
• [21:01] - It is a simple concept, but it works and is a viable solution to ensure content is accurate.
• [22:25] - The sooner the video is determined to be true, it is news that can be broken faster.
• [23:46] - Fake reviews are a big problem right now where people are even hired to write them for companies or products.
• [26:21] - Certified location videos could be beneficial for certain products or services.
• [27:50] - A third party like CertifyIt is necessary as people won't believe the vetting if it's done by the news organization.
• [30:16] - You can trick people's brains pretty easily as we are designed to believe what we see. This is especially easy if the viewer is tired or distracted.
• [31:50] - The more people get fooled, the more they will need a tool to vet the accuracy of a video they view.
• [33:29] - There will be false positives and false negatives as the technology gets better and better.
• [35:54] - The things that AI can create are truly very cool and can be entertaining, but the way people use it will change and probably not for the greater good.
• [38:21] - It will be possible to create alternate realities that are very convincing.
• [39:23] - It will probably take something major happening to bring this problem to light for the general public.
• [41:03] - The CertifyIt app can be used in a multitude of ways to provide a sense of confidence that the content you are viewing is true.

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Thank you for tuning in to our 150th episode! I started the Easy Prey Podcast with the goal of helping listeners learn to avoid being an easy target for scammers and fraudsters, both online and in the real world. Since the first episode on March 18, 2020, I've had the honor of interviewing some of the most influential people in their fields. We've talked about topics ranging from personal safety, self-defense, social engineering, and romance scams, to phishing, cybercrime, and everything in between. This episode is a slightly different format than normal. We've had some amazing guests on the show over the last 149 episodes. Today, I'm sharing highlights from our top 10 episodes!

In this highlight episode, you'll hear clips from:

• Narcissist Specialist, Dr. Ramani Durvasula
• Romance and Scam Survivor, Debby Montgomery Johnson
• Trust and Safety Architect, Jane Lee
• Programmer, John McAfee
• Author and UnMarketing Specialist, Scott Stratten
• People Hacker, Jenny Radcliff
• Former Cybercriminal, Brett Johnson
• Author and Gaslighting Expert, Dr. Deborah Vinall
• Former FBI Negotiator, Chris Voss
• Tech Pioneer and Podcast Host, Steve Gibson

[1:50] - Dr. Ramini Durvasula is an expert in understanding Narcissism. She shares the shocking traits of narcissists and you may realize you know a few.

• Click HERE for the full episode with Dr. Ramini Durvasula.

[9:49] - Debby Montgomery Johnson was a victim of an online dating scam. She shares how she was drawn in and what red flags you should look out for.

• Click HERE for the full episode with Debby Montgomery Johnson.

[16:31] - Jane Lee went undercover to learn about the new online dating scam known as Pig Butchering. She explains how Pig Butchering works and what to look out for.

• Click HERE for the full episode with Jane Lee.

[23:34] - John McAfee worked hard to stay hidden while he was on the run from the US government. He shares the unexpected costs of privacy.

• Click HERE for the full episode with John McAfee.

[30:29] - As a former salesman, Scott Stratten knows that people can see through sketchy sales techniques. He talks about the advantage of doing business with people you know, like, and trust.

• Click HERE for the full episode with Scott Stratten.

[36:37] - Hacking isn't just for computers. Jenny Radcliff's hacking specialty is hacking people. She shares how people can be manipulated and how your business or family can be compromised.

• Click HERE for the full episode with Jenny Radcliff.

[45:41] - As a renowned cybercriminal, Brett Johnson helped define cybercrime as we know it. He now uses his experience to protect people from the type of person he used to be.

• Click HERE for the full episode with Brett Johnson.

[52:01] - Gaslighting is a term that many of us have heard but not all of us know how to recognize. Dr. Deborah Vinall explains what it is and what to do when it happens to you.

• Click HERE for the full episode with Dr. Deborah Vinall.

[57:16] - As a former international kidnapping negotiator for the FBI, Chris Voss has plenty of experience with high-stakes negotiations. He shares his tips for the negotiations we face each and every day.

• Click HERE for the full episode with Chris Voss.

[64:09] - Steve Gibson has been working on computers since before the internet existed. He shares how the internet was not designed with security in mind and what kind of online security we can hope for in the future.

• Click HERE for the full episode with Steve Gibson.

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Many people are comfortable sharing data in an environment that they believe to be a safe space. But not everyone considers where that health data goes after it has been collected. Today's guest is Katie Lips. Katie is an author and entrepreneur who helps consumers to understand the value of their data and protect themselves online. She is currently creating a data-centric health app with her extensive experience.

• [0:51] - Katie shares her broad and diverse career in technology.
• [2:06] - The growth of the internet has changed exponentially since its inception.
• [4:04] - Covid opened up everyone's eyes on how useful data is in the health space.
• [5:16] - For many, sharing health data during the pandemic made them nervous.
• [6:19] - Many of us have health tracking apps and devices that collect an enormous amount of data.
• [7:57] - Sharing data means that it could land in the hands of companies that you may not want to have so much information on you.
• [8:43] - Consider who will see your data as it can paint a picture of who you are and your life.
• [10:00] - Fitness trackers use a GPS which is a great tool for runners, but Chris shares an example of how it puts military personnel at risk.
• [12:29] - If you share health data online, like on social media, it is considered personal data and isn't strictly governed.
• [14:05] - Some companies may use social media to determine how healthy someone is.
• [15:36] - The truth is, we don't know who can take that data and use what they want.
• [17:01] - Chris and Katie discuss an example of unintended consequences of using health tracker apps.
• [19:50] - What is a data play?
• [21:23] - Some data is best preserved as saved on a device rather than online.
• [22:52] - It's important to consider what data would be accessed in a breach as a consumer and a business owner.
• [24:14] - The possibility of data being sold to health insurance companies is a scary concept.
• [25:47] - There is a difference between sick care and health care and this space has changed in recent years.
• [27:37] - Can your health choices be held against you with your health provider?
• [29:44] - Chris describes an insurance company incentivizing healthier choices.
• [31:56] - Companies need to be more upfront on what the data shared will be used for. Chris and Katie believe that is something that will become more common.
• [34:30] - Katie describes her startup and health journey.
• [37:07] - Something can be data driven, but doesn't collect a lot of unnecessary data.

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Virtual networks with anonymous accounts allow cybercrime gangs the ability to work together without even knowing who they work with. This could be how the good guys infiltrate these networks.

Today's guest is Peter Taylor. Peter is a former police detective and Director of Fraud Management for major UK companies. Ten years ago he set up his own consultancy and has established a reputation as "The Fraud Guy" specializing in research, training, and investigation around organized crime.

• [0:50] - Peter shares his background and why he's known as The Fraud Guy.
• [2:10] - Throughout his career, Peter spoke with former cybercriminals and hackers.
• [3:51] - Cybercriminals are applying advanced business techniques to their organizations.
• [5:40] - What gets ignored is what cybercriminals and former criminals can tell us.
• [6:46] - We know that cybercriminals can watch what we're doing, but what we don't think about is that we can do the same to them.
• [8:49] - The first function of these organized cybercrime gangs is to steal data. Next is to buy and enhance the data. And the third is to cash out.
• [10:50] - There are some exceptions to the rule.
• [11:50] - The purpose of creating false identities has changed over the years.
• [13:53] - The biggest advantage that cybercriminals have is they get things done, while the good guys abide by time-consuming policies.
• [15:14] - Peter feels like the "good guys" need advice on how to help this problematic trend.
• [16:28] - The more sophisticated areas of cybercrime, the more elitist are actually a small portion. The largest portion of cybercrime is actually several years old.
• [20:11] - Peter shares an example of how organized cybercrime has impacted corporations as well and the rise of check fraud.
• [23:07] - The common Nigerian prince scam still works!
• [25:13] - Guilt and fear are commonly triggered emotions.
• [27:03] - Another reason the Nigerian prince scam works is the trigger of a victim's ego.
• [28:36] - The use of bots and automated messaging can hit so many people at one time with very little effort.
• [29:50] - Talk to the people who are important to you that may not be aware of these scams. Just because we know it, doesn't mean they do.
• [30:56] - Millennials are now the highest target age bracket of those being targeted by scams.
• [32:40] - Cybercriminals reach a point of success where it's no longer about the money. It's about their ego.
• [36:00] - We have to understand the difference in lifestyle and how cybercriminals recruit more people.
• [37:43] - There is little to no support for scam victims and in many countries there are no laws stating that this is even illegal.
• [40:18] - What role does machine learning play?
• [43:01] - Peter shares some experiences in changing up his spending habits.
• [45:12] - There are many different types of ways to access data that Peter lists here.
• [46:52] - There is a lot more going on before, during, and after every single transaction, especially those done online.
• [48:59] - Peter initially got into fraud because of an increase in the apparent theft of thousands of vehicles.
• [50:20] - Insurance fraud is also a very common problem.
• [52:53] - Obligatory security is a form of protection that could be a solution to many problems.
• [54:08] - Peter is optimistic about the future of cybersecurity.
• [55:35] - If we can decrease the money taken by cybercriminals through fraud, the money can be used for better things.
• [57:56] - There are some varying opinions on the politics of scams.
• [59:49] - Many scammers are in the industry out of desperation.
• [61:35] - We can't continue to be in a world where this industry grows.

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We understand that hackers look for weaknesses in networks to manipulate or take data, but understanding the ways that vehicles can also be accessed either remotely or physically can be a bit surprising.

Today's guest is Derrick Thiecke. Derrick works as an Embedded Systems Security Tester in the automotive industry where he found himself after spending over a decade in the corporate IT world. When Derrick isn't data dumping ROM chips, scouring through vehicle log data, or fuzzing CAN networks, he can be found as a brief blur passing by you on the highway.

• [0:58] - Derrick shares his background and current role as a security tester for automotive controllers and devices.
• [3:30] - There are differences between vehicle networks and home networks. The main network for vehicles is CAN bus.
• [5:12] - Because it is a bussed network, Derrick explains how all devices on the network can access all the data.
• [6:50] - Previously, you had to have physical access to hack a car, but not anymore.
• [8:19] - Derrick describes how his own vehicle accesses data on a network.
• [9:56] - The implementation of standards has changed the way vehicles are serviced.
• [11:18] - Safety critical features are isolated, but some things can still be accessed that can be harmful.
• [12:29] - There was an event in 2015 where a parking feature was hacked while the vehicle was in motion.
• [13:59] - There are ways to communicate with and change the fuel mapping over CAN bus, but there is usually a physical component required.
• [16:07] - Derrick describes a scenario that creates a potential threat.
• [19:04] - The automotive industry typically sits about a decade behind in technology.
• [21:24] - Derrick lists some of the features in a vehicle that are connected to a network.
• [23:18] - The number of vehicle recalls due to software issues has increased since 2015, but the issues aren't growing.
• [25:01] - Movies depict vehicle hacking as possible disasters. Derrick shares his concerns.
• [26:44] - When ransomware became a problem, we had the same questions. The threat for the worst case scenario is plausible.
• [28:31] - Derrick describes the most concerning problem he has experienced as a tester.
• [30:59] - Different cars all use the same controllers, even those without the same features.
• [32:26] - There are devices that can unlock vehicles without the key or keyfob.
• [34:18] - When there is an issue with a computer, typically there is an update to solve it. That currently isn't the case for most vehicles.
• [35:41] - There are some updates that can happen remotely, but the catch-22 is that the wireless connection makes the vehicle susceptible to threats.
• [37:02] - There is a huge shortage of workforce in this industry.
• [38:41] - Derrick recommends the book The Car Hacker's Handbook if you are interested in this field.

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Scammers are brilliant at targeting the vulnerable and then often using the fear of exposure to extort even more out of them. Education about these manipulators isn't enough. Can we do more to make a global impact knowing that less than 0.1% of scammers are ever prosecuted?

Today's guest is Jorij Abraham. Jorij Abraham is the Managing Director of the Global Anti-Scam Alliance with a mission of preventing consumers worldwide from getting scammed. He is also the General Manager at ScamAdvisor.com, the global blacklist for malicious websites. In addition, Jorij is an ecommerce professor at University of Applied Sciences TIO.

• [1:01] - Jorij shares his current roles and background in the field.
• [2:27] - He fell into ScamAdvisor when working in ecommerce.
• [3:42] - Scammers are remarkably smart when it comes to marketing fake sites.
• [5:12] - Subscription scams are specifically successful in getting quite a lot of money from victims.
• [6:18] - Scammers tend to take advantage of current events such as the energy crisis and abortion and then extort their fear of exposure.
• [7:26] - ScamAdvisor.com sees over 4 million visitors per month and they are from all over the world.
• [8:24] - In most countries, victims of scams are unable to get any help.
• [9:49] - Jorij explains how the laws work regarding scammers and the pitfalls of the process.
• [11:40] - It's important to educate consumers, but there's only so much that can be learned.
• [12:56] - The tips and tricks that helped just a few months ago are already not working all the time.
• [14:33] - Jorij describes a Ponzi scheme that took down the government in Albania.
• [16:10] - One little bump in supply and demand has drastic ripple effects.
• [17:32] - Scams are not simple anymore. The marketing power is extremely impactful and mostly successful.
• [19:11] - Even in the Netherlands, FBI phone scams are successful.
• [21:00] - Jorij predicts that legislation will be necessary.
• [22:10] - Awareness is good, but consumers need more protection.
• [23:35] - Phishing scams are created to filter out specific groups of people.
• [24:37] - Jorij shares his thoughts on retraining scammers to do good, especially since they are skilled hackers.
• [26:34] - How can we reduce scams?
• [27:41] - The Global Anti-Scam Alliance is a networking organization with the goal of pushing everyone together to define new ways to combat scams.
• [29:17] - Jorij describes the changes coming to ScamAdvisor.

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Utilizing hacking skills cannot only make it easier to work with management, but helps translate technical information for non-technical staff. Today's guest is Alyssa Miller. Alyssa is a lifelong hacker and cybersecurity leader. She is the CISO for Epiq Global and has over 16 years experience in security. She is an internationally recognized speaker, author, and researcher. She has also been featured in Tribe of Hackers blue team, Cybercrime magazine, and many other media.

• [1:06] - Alyssa has always been a hacker and shares the beginning of her journey.
• [3:01] - She saved up her money in the late 80s to buy her first computer.
• [5:04] - When she received discs for internet and couldn't pay for it as a 12 year old, she learned how to hack into the internet provider.
• [7:11] - Alyssa got her first full time job in tech at 19 years old and then began her career in cybersecurity.
• [9:24] - After working as a consultant for a while, she worked for a Wall Street Firm.
• [11:09] - Alyssa explains how she serendipitously fell into her current role as a CISO.
• [13:41] - In management, Alyssa believes that the ability to translate technical terms to non-technical staff is a requirement for management positions.
• [16:12] - Hackers want to know how things work and how to make them work differently.
• [17:47] - CISO is a role that hasn't existed for a long time.
• [19:13] - Because it is a relatively new role, how is knowledge built for people coming into that role?
• [21:10] - Technology and security have always been connected.
• [23:16] - Risk management is an important part of what Alyssa does.
• [25:56] - Alyssa demonstrates how she communicates risk to business leaders.
• [27:59] - In her current CISO position, she is pulled away from the tech part of things. She likes looking at the bigger picture.
• [29:58] - Misinformation is the main concern for the future in security.
• [32:18] - Privacy concerns will spill into the cybersecurity realm as well.
• [33:37] - The line between physical and digital gets increasingly blurred.
• [34:53] - Kids growing up in this digital world need to learn how to be safe online.
• [37:01] - How will the next generation operate in regards to cybersecurity?
• [39:50] - Colleges need to be focusing on concepts, rather than actual programs.
• [41:52] - There are amazing graduate programs, but there are professionals who are incredible as self-taught.
• [43:42] - This is a hot industry but not everyone is cut out for the skills needed to be right for the job.
• [45:20] - In Alyssa's book, there are activities that help those seeking employment in cybersecurity.
• [46:56] - Her book is available online and in retailers.

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Online dating has become more complicated than ever. Learning how to verify that the person you're talking to is actually the person in the dating profile can save you from heartbreak and financial loss.

Today's guests are Kathy Waters and Bryan Denny. Kathy Waters is an expert advocate and an educator on the subject of online romance scams. Kathy is co-founder, along with retired Colonel Bryan Denny, of the non-profit organization Advocating Against Romance Scammers. Both have been working for safer platforms since 2016 with the same goals in mind: justice for victims and educating all online of the cybercrime known to tear people down emotionally, psychologically, and financially.

• [1:18] - Bryan shares his experience with someone using his name and images in fake profiles.
• [3:00] - Kathy's mother's friend was a victim of a romance scam that used Bryan's photos.
• [4:36] - AARS became a non-profit last year and works to educate not only users, but lawmakers, too.
• [6:01] - Dating profiles of someone in military uniform is a red flag.
• [7:41] - There are many red flags to look for and there will often be more than one indicator.
• [8:50] - Ask a friend in the military about an unusual profile or reach out to Kathy and Bryan.
• [10:23] - It's tough to get people to report these interactions.
• [11:40] - Prior to Covid, the demographic was more elderly aged people. But a younger crowd has been affected since Covid.
• [13:22] - Younger people are more likely to come forward and talk about their experiences than an older demographic.
• [14:41] - It is also therapeutic to come forward and talk about it.
• [16:07] - Scammers tend to have a similar story, working out of the country.
• [17:51] - Bryan shares that he continues to receive messages about his photo circulating on fake profiles and the stories are all very similar.
• [20:07] - Bryan explains how scammers manipulate videos to pretend to be interacting on video calls.
• [22:23] - If you're concerned about interacting with someone through video calls, you can ask them to do something like touch their head or look a certain way.
• [24:01] - What do you do if you know you are interacting with a scammer?
• [26:04] - Scammers share where they have had success with other scammers.
• [27:43] - If you are watching this happen to someone else, there are ways to approach it with them. Outsiders tend to see the red flags sooner.
• [28:54] - Unfortunately, they may not believe you. Try to educate them on red flags.
• [29:46] - There are support groups for helping manage the emotional toll this takes on a victim.
• [32:09] - What laws are in place for this?
• [33:19] - Scammers are typically in another country. They are hard to go after legally because they are not in the United States.
• [34:49] - On their website, there are commonly used photos in fake profiles and ways to report a scam.

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