eCommerce Master Plan

eCommerce Master Plan

By Chloe ThomasBusinessEntrepreneurshipTechnologyMarketing
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eCommerce Master Plan episodes

  • eCommerce MasterPlan | 606: Calla Shoes’ Winning Formula: SEO, Customer Feedback, and Strategic Partnerships

    Jennifer Bailey is the CEO Founder at Calla Shoes, sellers of women’s shoes for bunions, wide feet and problem feet. Founded in 2016 they now sell via their Shopify store and are on track for £2million in sales this year. 

     

    In this episode, Jennifer reveals how Calla Shoes grew from a personal frustration into a £2 million global eCommerce brand. Discover the customer-first mindset, SEO strategy, and partnership approach that helped the business scale to customers in 92 countries while staying laser-focused on solving a real problem. 

     

    Hit PLAY to hear: 

    • How Calla Shoes grew into a £2M brand by solving one overlooked customer problem 
    • Why SEO still drives most of their traffic after nearly 10 years in business 
    • The surprising customer research method Jennifer swears by (and it’s not AI) 
    • How a niche footwear brand expanded to 92 countries worldwide 
    • The partnership strategy that’s turning podiatrists into powerful referral partners 
    • How customer feedback directly shaped some of Calla Shoes’ best-selling products 

      •  

      Key timestamps to dive straight in: 

      [06:15] Embracing constant learning in eCommerce 

      [07:49] Global marketing on a budget 

      [10:09] Searching for wedding shoes with bunions 

      [13:15] Embracing unique needs in footwear 

      [16:43] Listening to customer feedback 

      [20:50] Collaborations with podiatrists and influencers 

      [23:02] Listen to Jennifer’s Top Tips! 

       

      Full episode notes here: https://ecmp.info/606

      —

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      WEBVTT

      00:00.572 –> 00:09.482

      [SPEAKER_00]: Ever since I started the business because I had no marketing budget, I focused heavily on SEO even today, like most of our traffic still comes from organic.

      00:09.702 –> 00:12.806

      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s so expensive to acquire customers through Metal and Google now.

      00:13.407 –> 00:20.255

      [SPEAKER_00]: You need that underlying baseline traffic that’s just finding you through Google or wherever I think.

      00:22.963 –> 00:25.347

      [SPEAKER_02]: It’s the e-commerce master plan podcast.

      00:25.888 –> 00:29.974

      [SPEAKER_02]: Here to help you solve your marketing problems and grow your e-commerce business.

      00:30.495 –> 00:36.023

      [SPEAKER_02]: Cutting through the hide-off to bring you inspiration and advice from the e-commerce sector and beyond.

      00:36.283 –> 00:38.347

      [SPEAKER_02]: Here’s your host, Chloe Thomas.

      00:41.583 –> 00:42.823

      [SPEAKER_01]: Hello and welcome.

      00:42.843 –> 00:43.884

      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s great to have you here.

      00:43.944 –> 00:47.724

      [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for hitting play and choosing to listen to one of our inspiring guests.

      00:48.145 –> 00:52.266

      [SPEAKER_01]: In this episode, we’re talking shoes, but we’re talking all full lot more than shoes.

      00:52.646 –> 01:02.048

      [SPEAKER_01]: We are talking about marketing to a niche that has a real problem that you are fixing in a great way and how you leverage that.

      01:02.088 –> 01:08.229

      [SPEAKER_01]: We’ll be talking about referrals, we’ll be talking about community, we’re talking about customer research.

      01:11.530 –> 01:21.376

      [SPEAKER_01]: affiliate schemes and influencer schemes and leveraging experts in that arena to help you build PR and to help you build sales.

      01:22.177 –> 01:29.701

      [SPEAKER_01]: Lots of stuff going on in this one and do, I know I say this every time, make sure you listen to the top tips, but the tooltop tip in particular this week.

      01:30.261 –> 01:35.225

      [SPEAKER_01]: I guess is running through the four key tools across team comms.

      01:36.085 –> 01:44.131

      [SPEAKER_01]: returns email and reviews and loyalty that she uses and giving some very honest feedback about why she’s chosen to use the ones she’s chosen.

      01:44.151 –> 01:55.659

      [SPEAKER_01]: So well worth listening through to the end there and she’ll also be talking about how they’re going about the circular economy embracing as well loads in this episode coming up great guest.

      01:56.059 –> 01:57.040

      [SPEAKER_01]: Make sure you listen to the end.

      02:03.045 –> 02:05.107

      [SPEAKER_01]: and now to introduce our special guest.

      02:05.508 –> 02:08.791

      [SPEAKER_01]: Jennifer Bailey is the CEO founder at Calla Shoes.

      02:08.992 –> 02:12.515

      [SPEAKER_01]: Sellers of women shoes for bunions, wide feet and problem feet.

      02:12.976 –> 02:20.404

      [SPEAKER_01]: Founded in 2016, they now sell via their Shopify store or on under on track for £2m in sales this year.

      02:20.444 –> 02:21.145

      [SPEAKER_01]: Hello Jenny.

      02:21.625 –> 02:24.028

      [SPEAKER_00]: Hello lovely to be here, Chloe.

      02:24.348 –> 02:25.590

      [SPEAKER_01]: Brilliant to have you here.

      02:25.931 –> 02:35.945

      [SPEAKER_01]: I always love a guest who’s focused on a niche and you have one fascinating niche So it’s really cool to explore your business, but before we get into that, how did you end up in e-commerce?

      02:35.985 –> 02:39.551

      [SPEAKER_01]: Is Kalashuse your first foray or were you in the industry before that?

      02:40.677 –> 02:50.446

      [SPEAKER_00]: So before Calla Shoes, I had never owned my own business, so I owned my own business before, and no one in my family had had their own business before.

      02:50.846 –> 02:55.130

      [SPEAKER_00]: So this is all that we knew to me, and I knew nothing about footwear or fashion either.

      02:55.750 –> 02:58.152

      [SPEAKER_00]: So it was all quite new.

      02:58.433 –> 03:00.654

      [SPEAKER_00]: The only thing I did have is that I’d background

      03:01.575 –> 03:02.295

      [SPEAKER_00]: is marketing.

      03:02.395 –> 03:08.157

      [SPEAKER_00]: So my career up till starting the business at 36 was in marketing.

      03:08.197 –> 03:09.958

      [SPEAKER_00]: So at least I had that.

      03:10.078 –> 03:13.919

      [SPEAKER_00]: So I didn’t know how to make shoes, but I had an idea of how I wanted to sell them.

      03:14.499 –> 03:16.560

      [SPEAKER_00]: I wasn’t in E-Con before before.

      03:16.620 –> 03:20.261

      [SPEAKER_00]: I was actually head of marketing at E. So we did like student recruitment,

      03:20.821 –> 03:26.706

      [SPEAKER_00]: marketing brand, investor brand, guardianship, that kind of thing.

      03:26.966 –> 03:37.254

      [SPEAKER_00]: We didn’t really do eat e-commerce such at the university, but I was part of my role was looking after the university website, making sure it’s on brand and looking at the customer journeys, that kind of thing.

      03:37.714 –> 03:42.758

      [SPEAKER_00]: But it’s a bit new, digital marketing wasn’t, but e-commerce totally get it.

      03:42.778 –> 03:44.799

      [SPEAKER_01]: And I think having looked at your business, it makes sense.

      03:44.839 –> 03:45.400

      [SPEAKER_01]: You had that

      03:46.480 –> 04:05.512

      [SPEAKER_01]: bigger marketing experience, the top-level marketing experience rather than nitty-gritty experience you started because your business does a really great job with the top and stuff, which if I know a lot of people coming into e-commerce get very into all the nitty-gritty, but the bigger brand, customer feeling, emotional part gets left behind.

      04:06.212 –> 04:10.134

      [SPEAKER_01]: So this business was your first journey into e-commerce.

      04:10.315 –> 04:12.236

      [SPEAKER_01]: I’m tell us a bit about how it is now,

      04:14.497 –> 04:15.858

      [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

      04:16.658 –> 04:20.939

      [SPEAKER_00]: So 2016 was the first year started selling.

      04:21.019 –> 04:30.203

      [SPEAKER_00]: So if we went, I went live with pre-orders in September 2016 and then the shoes didn’t actually arrive until like November, because then we did pre-orders.

      04:31.223 –> 04:32.204

      [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, 10 years.

      04:32.824 –> 04:33.704

      [SPEAKER_00]: That’s bonkers, isn’t it?

      04:33.864 –> 04:34.825

      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s bonkers, yeah.

      04:35.225 –> 04:35.525

      [SPEAKER_00]: It is.

      04:36.118 –> 04:41.541

      [SPEAKER_00]: I would, in some respects, it’s gone really, really fast and in all those, it’s gone quite slowly.

      04:41.601 –> 05:01.810

      [SPEAKER_00]: So it’s always, but I judge it on my kids because I was pregnant when I started the business, because it took about two years before we actually had products sell, you know, just kind of getting everything, all the prototyping done because it’s, because it’s product, you know, that that isn’t a quick turnaround and it’s because it’s a product in a niche,

      05:05.372 –> 05:07.294

      [SPEAKER_00]: but yeah, so I and she’s 11 now.

      05:07.574 –> 05:12.578

      [SPEAKER_00]: So I kind of like that’s how I understand how all my business is, but then I told her.

      05:12.958 –> 05:14.079

      [SPEAKER_00]: It makes two of a sudden.

      05:14.800 –> 05:15.240

      [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.

      05:15.720 –> 05:18.723

      [SPEAKER_00]: It comments out here and it’s changed so much.

      05:18.743 –> 05:27.350

      [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I always say to people that if I had a year off, I would be coming back and going, what is going on?

      05:27.510 –> 05:29.872

      [SPEAKER_00]: Why is actually going on right now?

      05:30.652 –> 05:32.672

      [SPEAKER_00]: everything is changing at such a pace.

      05:33.373 –> 05:36.153

      [SPEAKER_00]: I even faster than it has done before.

      05:36.473 –> 05:55.057

      [SPEAKER_00]: I guess it doesn’t really matter that I don’t really know what I’m doing because I don’t know what I’m doing but it doesn’t really matter if you feel like you’re winging it because everybody is at the moment because everything is changing at such a pace so yeah I love e-commerce and I specifically chose

      06:01.159 –> 06:14.549

      [SPEAKER_00]: easier, and somewhat is I think, where I think about B2BA always get a little bit like, or would I want to talk to about it or something, that kind of thing is very, what if it’s easy, I think, to go, I’m just going to sell shoes to whoever wants to buy them in the world, I found that an easier concept.

      06:15.029 –> 06:22.815

      [SPEAKER_01]: I’m completely in that camp with you, but I love you say about how it’s a benefit, not know what you’re doing because actually no one else does,

      06:25.237 –> 06:40.034

      [SPEAKER_01]: lesson to learn in e-commerce that if you try and be the know it all you will miss stuff you know because it’s the platforms are changing all the time the way the customers behave is changing a little bit all the time what they respond to changes and you have to be you have to have this constant

      06:40.915 –> 06:44.538

      [SPEAKER_01]: fascination with it and wanting to learn more and wanting to find out things.

      06:44.558 –> 06:49.243

      [SPEAKER_01]: So as soon as you soon as you start being trying to be a know-it-all, done for, absolutely done for.

      06:49.263 –> 06:54.127

      [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, the basic fundamentals of marketing still stand, they don’t go anywhere.

      06:54.868 –> 06:58.391

      [SPEAKER_00]: And the basic fundamentals of how to win a business don’t go anywhere.

      06:58.711 –> 07:04.796

      [SPEAKER_00]: But in terms of how to acquire new customers online, that’s like, that’s an ever-changing landscape.

      07:05.657 –> 07:06.377

      [SPEAKER_01]: very, very much.

      07:06.597 –> 07:08.178

      [SPEAKER_01]: Well, let’s talk about the business now.

      07:08.899 –> 07:11.079

      [SPEAKER_01]: Where are you in the world and where are you selling to?

      07:12.140 –> 07:27.067

      [SPEAKER_00]: So, I live in the Northwest of England near town called Warrington, actually living Newtony Willows, no one’s heard of Newtony Willows, but if you’re all like me, then you’ll have heard of Rick Hassley, and this is the town that he’s from.

      07:28.828 –> 07:35.654

      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s our only claim to fame, and myself and my whole team work remotely, we don’t have apprentices.

      07:35.874 –> 07:43.941

      [SPEAKER_00]: We use a 3PL that is also in the north of England, we have a 3PL in America as well, but my team are all over the place.

      07:45.242 –> 08:10.561

      [SPEAKER_00]: we sell globally and we have done some day one and again that wasn’t it was a conscious decision because I thought well I’m just going to sell the shoes to whoever wants to buy them and I don’t really care where they’re from so I didn’t think particularly geographically at first and that’s because my marketing strategy to start with was I needed to do as much as I could for with no money which is very different from working at university because I had loads of money

      08:14.064 –> 08:27.091

      [SPEAKER_00]: and so my marketing reach was done mainly via socials, SEO and forums and it’s quite hard to you know, regionally geographically, you know, go down in place in those areas.

      08:27.571 –> 08:39.058

      [SPEAKER_00]: So when we launched our pre-orders and from the kind of the seeding work that I’d done before, you know, intensive getting the brand concept out there in the year or so prior to the launch,

      08:39.898 –> 08:44.340

      [SPEAKER_00]: people will like from kind of do America or whatever and just same our buy shoes.

      08:44.380 –> 08:46.141

      [SPEAKER_00]: Now it’s like I’ll send you my shoes.

      08:49.123 –> 08:52.405

      [SPEAKER_00]: That’s what that’s what the story is and that’s what the post is about.

      08:52.925 –> 08:58.628

      [SPEAKER_00]: So we sell globally but at the moment the split is around 40% U.S.

      09:00.870 –> 09:03.872

      [SPEAKER_00]: 50% UK and 10% rest of the world.

      09:04.372 –> 09:09.596

      [SPEAKER_00]: And when I say rest of the world, that’s still mostly Australia, Canada, Europe.

      09:10.036 –> 09:16.521

      [SPEAKER_00]: And then we have a smattering of customers that have found as via Instagram, I think, or TikTok or whatever.

      09:17.281 –> 09:20.544

      [SPEAKER_00]: And we’ve sold into 92 countries in the world.

      09:20.564 –> 09:21.624

      [SPEAKER_00]: That way.

      09:22.325 –> 09:25.167

      [SPEAKER_01]: But two big markets in the UK in the US for you.

      09:25.947 –> 09:29.990

      [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the US was bigger until Donald Trump came in.

      09:30.630 –> 09:39.576

      [SPEAKER_00]: It was overtaking the UK, and it was overtaking it at a pace, but then the tariff situation came in and it’s ticking a bit of a dip.

      09:40.236 –> 09:43.658

      [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, the T word, the worst word in Ecomas.

      09:43.899 –> 09:45.800

      [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I’m sorry.

      09:46.320 –> 09:50.943

      [SPEAKER_00]: Tariff’s in Trump, Trump, Tariff’s and Dominimists.

      09:51.003 –> 09:53.445

      [SPEAKER_00]: Those are like the three ways, but yeah, Trump got.

      09:54.662 –> 09:56.023

      [SPEAKER_00]: That’s a whole separate podcast.

      09:56.963 –> 10:07.069

      [SPEAKER_01]: So something we haven’t yet talked about, Jen, is your product, which is click key to the success of your business is the product and the customer base you’re selling to.

      10:07.149 –> 10:08.390

      [SPEAKER_01]: So tell us about the product.

      10:09.312 –> 10:30.580

      [SPEAKER_00]: So the whole reason I ended up in this niche and why I started the business is because I suffered from a folk condition called bunions and many years ago when I was getting married, I suddenly realized that I wasn’t going to be able to find a really pretty pair of wedding shoes because I’ve got bunions and up until that point I’ve kind of

      10:31.400 –> 10:38.862

      [SPEAKER_00]: made done with trainers and augbutes and the odd pair of shoes that I could find that, you know, I could fit into comfortably.

      10:39.362 –> 10:45.783

      [SPEAKER_00]: But wedding days are kind of about quite specific, you know, shoes, I think, or for me they were anyway.

      10:46.223 –> 10:51.205

      [SPEAKER_00]: And I had a very specific look in mind and a very beautiful dress getting married in Italy.

      10:51.225 –> 10:57.106

      [SPEAKER_00]: And I had an idea of what shoes I wanted and then I realised that I wasn’t going to be able to find them because my feet were weird.

      10:57.686 –> 10:59.287

      [SPEAKER_00]: Or my feet wouldn’t fit into conventional

      11:01.767 –> 11:21.454

      [SPEAKER_00]: So I started looking online for hours on end and I just thought maybe someone in Australia is doing it or someone in China or do you know if somebody might just be doing something for some bunions and I’d buy them I was happy to pay and buy them for words that they came from but I couldn’t find in him So I decided then I was going to start my own business one day

      11:22.694 –> 11:38.725

      [SPEAKER_00]: And when I say that it was a throwaway thought throwaway comment to my husband, but when it came to a shoved situation and a shoved situation which is where a lot of women I speak to start businesses because they get to a point in their lives where they go.

      11:39.245 –> 11:41.867

      [SPEAKER_00]: this is the best solution for me in my lifestyle right now.

      11:42.468 –> 11:53.718

      [SPEAKER_00]: And I was, and I’ve been working at the University for a while, I’ve worked more way up to acting head of marketing, but then and we had a new boss, it wasn’t particularly nice, it was just a really light ring.

      11:54.159 –> 11:55.019

      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s been like my team.

      11:55.480 –> 12:00.604

      [SPEAKER_00]: It got me as all we’ve done, and I found out I was pregnant with my second child at the same time.

      12:01.405 –> 12:03.886

      [SPEAKER_00]: And it was a lot, you know, at that time.

      12:03.906 –> 12:06.968

      [SPEAKER_00]: So I thought, right, okay, that was the idea I had years ago.

      12:06.988 –> 12:11.631

      [SPEAKER_00]: I’m going to, I’m going to see if I can make it fly while I’m on maternity leave, which is what I did.

      12:12.111 –> 12:17.674

      [SPEAKER_00]: So the shoes are, that’s a story behind it, but the shoes and cells are designed with bunions in mind.

      12:18.695 –> 12:26.399

      [SPEAKER_00]: It has evolved over the 10 years that we’ve been trading just because of how we’ve responded to, you know,

      12:28.540 –> 12:29.360

      [SPEAKER_00]: and customer needs.

      12:30.180 –> 12:50.445

      [SPEAKER_00]: We know from our own research that the majority of our customers buy for bunions, wide feet, and hammer toes, and there’s like the three main complaints that people have, which is why they’ve gone off on Google, trying to find something desperation, or they’ve seen our add-on thought, oh, I didn’t realise there was a solution out there for my problem.

      12:51.125 –> 12:53.947

      [SPEAKER_00]: At the time of launching, there was really no one else doing what we’re doing now.

      12:53.967 –> 13:06.734

      [SPEAKER_00]: There were quite a few and Bunions were still very niche, but there’s lots of brands out there that are really leaning into comfort and you know, all of them in Telbeport, sold of their fashion reports.

      13:06.814 –> 13:09.976

      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s very much going back down that route.

      13:09.996 –> 13:15.339

      [SPEAKER_00]: So it’s quite a different footwear landscape to where it was when I first came up with the idea.

      13:15.999 –> 13:31.370

      [SPEAKER_01]: But if I think about, and I’m lucky enough not to have bunions or a foot complaint like that, but I think about friends who do, and it was like, it was a secret, you know, through through the 90s and the 90s and the 2010s, you didn’t mention it.

      13:31.730 –> 13:44.519

      [SPEAKER_01]: As you said, you may do, you found, as a solution, you’d find the, you know, the clerks wide fitting that you could just about get away within the correct line up of the sandal straps or whatever it was, you could manage to make work.

      13:45.420 –> 13:58.850

      [SPEAKER_01]: But now in the 2020s, it feels like consumers are celebrating their unusual elements about themselves and finding a good solution to it rather than a make-do solution, which must be a good opportunity.

      13:58.890 –> 14:09.857

      [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yes, it means there’s more competitors coming to the market, but it must be a good opportunity for consumers and now not sitting around going, well, I just have to make do, no one will ever solve this for me.

      14:09.877 –> 14:12.299

      [SPEAKER_01]: They’re now expecting that solution and when they’re looking for it, they’re

      14:13.932 –> 14:14.612

      [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.

      14:14.812 –> 14:28.259

      [SPEAKER_00]: I think it’s a bit of a push-and-pull situation where it’s being driven by consumers, but also the fact that it, I mean, I’m not going to say it’s easy setting up your own business because it isn’t and definitely wouldn’t suggest going into footwear to anybody.

      14:30.820 –> 14:55.630

      [SPEAKER_00]: You know, really commerce, you can kind of just settle your own business when you’re bedroom and you can go, there’s a confidence in the world now about going, we don’t have to do things in the same way, we don’t need millions of pounds set of a business week and we can get one going on, you know, a small amount of money and I think that the fact that there was so many amazing women in particular that are coming up with fantastic solutions,

      14:56.730 –> 15:02.012

      [SPEAKER_00]: and being able to just drive those businesses forward on their own without needing tons of money to do it.

      15:02.032 –> 15:04.713

      [SPEAKER_00]: I think that that’s giving consumers much more choice.

      15:04.733 –> 15:07.674

      [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it’s great that there’s more choice than ever out there.

      15:07.694 –> 15:11.756

      [SPEAKER_00]: But I think it is this fact that it’s easier to settle a business.

      15:12.576 –> 15:33.149

      [SPEAKER_00]: there’s a lot more support for if you want to set up a business, like this confidence there’s set up a business because there’s so many other people that are doing it, you know, and it’s all headline kind of grabbing stuff and entrepreneurs are getting headlines more than ever and the fact that consumers are saying, right, okay, that they’re probably more likely to go, then must be somebody out there doing this, do you know what I mean?

      15:33.289 –> 15:40.354

      [SPEAKER_00]: And I get a little bit of a customer saying, I had had this idea years ago, and I was just about to set the business up and then I saw that you’d already done

      15:45.617 –> 15:50.922

      [SPEAKER_01]: I love that the emotion is, oh, thank goodness, not, oh damn it, no, it’s like someone else’s done it.

      15:51.042 –> 15:52.163

      [SPEAKER_01]: I can get the shoes I want.

      15:52.663 –> 15:57.788

      [SPEAKER_01]: So clearly, it certainly seems like you have a very good relationship with your customers.

      15:57.928 –> 16:01.111

      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s community a part of something that you focus on for growth.

      16:02.037 –> 16:07.201

      [SPEAKER_00]: one of my core values, like personally, so which is a company value as well, is really put in the customer first.

      16:07.221 –> 16:15.446

      [SPEAKER_00]: And I think, and I know that those are companies say that, but without my marketing background, understands fundamentally that without the customers, we don’t have a business.

      16:16.047 –> 16:20.310

      [SPEAKER_00]: And I’m not here to tell our customers what they want, that doesn’t work that way.

      16:20.330 –> 16:24.613

      [SPEAKER_00]: And I realize that really, really on, because I thought people wanted high heels.

      16:24.833 –> 16:28.676

      [SPEAKER_00]: This is a easy example, because that’s what I struggle finding.

      16:29.336 –> 16:37.441

      [SPEAKER_00]: And then when I was doing all my research prior to launching, my customers are like, what actually, what we want is just a plain black kind of flat tube.

      16:38.101 –> 16:43.205

      [SPEAKER_00]: We can word it, say, as well as the heels, we want the heels, but we just want an everyday shoe.

      16:43.225 –> 16:46.146

      [SPEAKER_00]: And I didn’t realize it was as much of an issue as an issue.

      16:47.307 –> 16:48.629

      [SPEAKER_00]: and until our customers told me that.

      16:48.689 –> 16:53.015

      [SPEAKER_00]: So, ever since then, and then that’s she was the common best seller, you know what I mean?

      16:53.035 –> 16:58.982

      [SPEAKER_00]: So, ever since then, I’ve used our customers, which is not used as news of terrible word, isn’t it?

      16:59.283 –> 17:02.266

      [SPEAKER_00]: I’ve used customer data and customer feedback to drive.

      17:02.847 –> 17:03.947

      [SPEAKER_00]: what we produce for them.

      17:04.007 –> 17:10.809

      [SPEAKER_00]: So if they say they want low heels but produce low heels, if they say they want, you know, certain colours will produce that colour.

      17:10.829 –> 17:24.893

      [SPEAKER_00]: So I frequently speak to the customers on the phone, I have a customer service as manager who deals with like day-to-day stuff, but I quite like to get on the phone and speak to them and take calls and do calls because you can get into those more in-depth conversations with women.

      17:25.593 –> 17:51.926

      [SPEAKER_00]: When you say to them, you know, it’s journey and the founder, they normally know me, they normally see me as part of the customer journey of what they’ve seen on the website or they found out online, that I was journey and then they’re really open to give feedback and detail feedback about their specific foot conditions, what’s out there isn’t working for them, you know, and it’s, if you’re online, that’s not physical, but it’s as close to physical as you’re

      17:53.587 –> 18:00.971

      [SPEAKER_00]: feedback from customers is really, really important, which is why I don’t believe in sticking to AI, chat and email.

      18:01.011 –> 18:08.035

      [SPEAKER_00]: I just think that if you want to get to know your customers, you have to have either a face to face dialogue or at least something over the phone.

      18:08.816 –> 18:16.220

      [SPEAKER_01]: You can learn so much from the data and from AI trolling through the email responses or whatever else, but

      18:17.160 –> 18:20.903

      [SPEAKER_01]: You have to do, you can’t just go quantitative, you have to go qualitative as well.

      18:20.943 –> 18:40.259

      [SPEAKER_01]: And that’s those one-off questions where you get into the nitty-gritty of something in its sparks and idea that wasn’t coming through on the data, but then you can maybe back up from the data where you get that real feeling from the customer is so crucial, especially when when your business is so, so allied to solving a problem for them.

      18:41.053 –> 18:46.476

      [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and really understanding what makes them make their purchasing decisions.

      18:46.496 –> 18:49.137

      [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I’m not going to say we’ve got a perfect and our website at all.

      18:49.397 –> 18:52.619

      [SPEAKER_00]: Um, we’ve not because every time I have a conversation, I have another idea.

      18:52.639 –> 18:53.340

      [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what I mean?

      18:53.420 –> 18:55.060

      [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh, we need to feed this in.

      18:55.120 –> 18:58.882

      [SPEAKER_00]: And our customer journey and our website is a big piece of work we’re doing right now.

      18:58.902 –> 18:59.763

      [SPEAKER_00]: We’re in the middle of it.

      18:59.823 –> 19:03.145

      [SPEAKER_00]: And we’re going to be making some big changes to the site in the next couple of months.

      19:03.865 –> 19:13.973

      [SPEAKER_00]: because it’s always choice out there and because of the price point of our shoes, we make the shoes in Portugal, so they’re expensive to buy in the first place, so we have to sell them at a certain price point.

      19:14.313 –> 19:28.845

      [SPEAKER_00]: But again, I chose that because levers and suites that we buy really soft, they’re the best material for the foot conditions that I found and the quality is there as well

      19:33.525 –> 19:37.927

      [SPEAKER_01]: So there’s a big part on your website, Jen, about collaborations.

      19:38.847 –> 19:43.909

      [SPEAKER_01]: And it strikes me, you do quite a lot of different collaborations, and maybe this is a way of gaining customers as well.

      19:43.929 –> 19:46.110

      [SPEAKER_01]: So what’s your approach to collaboration?

      19:46.130 –> 19:47.831

      [SPEAKER_01]: What does collaboration mean for color shoes?

      19:49.024 –> 20:02.387

      [SPEAKER_00]: This is another area that we’re looking at developing, but at the moment what we found was that podiatris who see feet that day and day out, obviously, for specialists, were recommending us to their customers.

      20:02.427 –> 20:15.471

      [SPEAKER_00]: So they’d found out about us through various routes, you know, LinkedIn, where I’ve connected with people through exhibited at a specialist health, for health trade show,

      20:16.631 –> 20:23.694

      [SPEAKER_00]: and then podiatris or customers had gone in and spoken to them and saying, what do you think of this brand and they’ve gone away and done their own research?

      20:24.194 –> 20:30.356

      [SPEAKER_00]: And what I found is that podiatris want to be able to recommend footwear to their patients, because it’s part of the service.

      20:30.376 –> 20:34.038

      [SPEAKER_00]: So they’re obviously there to help fix any ailment or, you know,

      20:35.438 –> 20:36.739

      [SPEAKER_00]: insults and all that kind of stuff.

      20:37.120 –> 20:50.550

      [SPEAKER_00]: But the patient might come in, client might come in and say, and I’ve got bunions, but I just, it was my daughter’s wedding coming up, and I can’t wear those shoes that you’ve recommended for me, cosy feet, or whatever, they might be.

      20:51.150 –> 20:57.815

      [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it’s not going to go with my 300 pound dress that I’ve just bought, you know, if it’s a, my only daughter’s wedding or whatever.

      20:57.835 –> 20:59.516

      [SPEAKER_00]: And the pedages will once be able to give some

      21:00.637 –> 21:15.775

      [SPEAKER_00]: options and so what you know they’ll go well have you had your hand look at calories because they do do heels that are suitable for a bunion if you if you need comfort so we do a lot of collaboration work with those and that means

      21:16.516 –> 21:21.019

      [SPEAKER_00]: basic collaboration work as in Ligflitz, you know, we get me to do them.

      21:22.080 –> 21:30.906

      [SPEAKER_00]: And then we also work with them on YouTube and Instagram and TikTok where they’re doing a round up.

      21:30.926 –> 21:35.369

      [SPEAKER_00]: For example, of shoes that they would talk about or they would recommend even.

      21:36.430 –> 21:39.632

      [SPEAKER_00]: And then we have other special relationships as

      21:43.975 –> 21:52.803

      [SPEAKER_00]: So, a lot of collaborations are based on working with pediatrics and other foot specialists, and then there are different strands to what we call collaborating.

      21:52.843 –> 22:06.674

      [SPEAKER_00]: So, it might be with influences as well, and that might be just for content or that might be for reach on their profiles or whatever social profiles they have, and then the other collaborations are with

      22:07.555 –> 22:13.419

      [SPEAKER_00]: brand partners, I guess, who are maybe talking to women in a similar space.

      22:13.439 –> 22:19.544

      [SPEAKER_00]: So we’re about to do a brand collaboration with Look Fabulous Forever, which make me cook for a mature skin.

      22:20.424 –> 22:21.205

      [SPEAKER_00]: Amazing brand.

      22:22.186 –> 22:24.567

      [SPEAKER_00]: And it fits really well with our demographics.

      22:24.627 –> 22:27.009

      [SPEAKER_00]: So there’s those types of collaborations as well.

      22:27.049 –> 22:28.831

      [SPEAKER_00]: So they’re different.

      22:29.431 –> 22:34.875

      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s all about sharing our customer base, I guess, that’s what it’s all about.

      22:37.493 –> 22:42.334

      [SPEAKER_02]: The Ecommerce Masterplan is supporting by some of the greatest companies in the Ecommerce sector.

      22:42.454 –> 22:52.596

      [SPEAKER_02]: Here’s a reminder of who they are.

      22:52.616 –> 23:00.018

      [SPEAKER_01]: Okay I love this section because it gives me and I’ll list us some really quick ideas for taking up businesses to the next level.

      23:00.058 –> 23:01.798

      [SPEAKER_01]: Jenny are you ready for the top tips?

      23:02.440 –> 23:03.080

      [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let’s do it.

      23:03.521 –> 23:04.621

      [SPEAKER_01]: OK, the book top tip.

      23:04.701 –> 23:11.205

      [SPEAKER_01]: If everyone is listening to this podcast, agreed to take Friday off and read a book to make their business better, which book would you recommend?

      23:12.185 –> 23:20.309

      [SPEAKER_00]: Now, this is relevant, even if you don’t have a footwear business, because it’s one of the best books that I’ve ever read, and generally a fiction girl.

      23:20.710 –> 23:27.193

      [SPEAKER_00]: I listen to podcasts about e-commerce, stuff, and Shopify, but generally a fiction, but there’s a few books that are

      23:31.068 –> 23:31.789

      [SPEAKER_00]: have you read it clubbing?

      23:32.089 –> 23:35.152

      [SPEAKER_01]: I haven’t, yeah, it’s on the list, but I still haven’t read it.

      23:35.893 –> 23:37.595

      [SPEAKER_00]: I actually haven’t read it, I’d listen to it.

      23:37.935 –> 23:52.229

      [SPEAKER_00]: When I was on the train on the way down to London, I get totally trained sick on the Pendolino train, so the only thing I can do is sit with my eyes closed, so someone had recommended this to me and so I already listened to it.

      23:53.150 –> 24:00.072

      [SPEAKER_00]: Basically, Phil Knight, who is the founder of Nike or Nike, it’s his books, his memoirs really.

      24:00.673 –> 24:12.497

      [SPEAKER_00]: And what it made me realize is how hard it is to settle her business and every business goes through the same issues.

      24:12.937 –> 24:17.639

      [SPEAKER_00]: So obviously, he got his to $30 billion or rather, throughout these days.

      24:17.759 –> 24:19.860

      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s worth $3 billion, crazy numbers.

      24:21.280 –> 24:36.306

      [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, his first few ideas didn’t fly when he set up Nike, he actually had to bring an apartment to do one part of the business while he focused on another, so it’s like understanding that you don’t have to kind of do it on your own or the people out there.

      24:37.146 –> 24:39.967

      [SPEAKER_00]: And he borrowed a load of money to keep the business growing.

      24:40.007 –> 24:45.890

      [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that’s a big challenge when you’re growing a business that you need more money to grow, especially if you’re in product.

      24:47.250 –> 24:55.376

      [SPEAKER_00]: And he had his massive overdraft with the bank and then the bank pulled it and said, right, you’re not having that million pound dollar overdraft anymore.

      24:55.796 –> 24:59.559

      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s gone and he was like, you know, I need to buy more shoes.

      24:59.979 –> 25:01.981

      [SPEAKER_00]: And how he went then about and how to get that money.

      25:02.021 –> 25:05.503

      [SPEAKER_00]: So it makes you realize that it was not plain sailing at all.

      25:05.783 –> 25:06.444

      [SPEAKER_00]: You know, for him.

      25:06.584 –> 25:10.046

      [SPEAKER_00]: And he went into quite a lot of detail and the book about how he felt.

      25:10.167 –> 25:14.209

      [SPEAKER_00]: And in his emotional state and a lot of

      25:15.390 –> 25:27.085

      [SPEAKER_00]: how to do books they don’t really talk about that side of it that much do they it’s like you know this is what this is what you should do but actually the emotional part of it is the bit that I like that book about it we’re really connected with it.

      25:27.785 –> 25:32.651

      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s definitely good to read about someone who’s been on a similar journey when you hear the bad bits on the good bits.

      25:33.292 –> 25:37.315

      [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it’s not a disaster’s book, but a real honest, honest look.

      25:37.355 –> 25:40.017

      [SPEAKER_01]: So maybe I need to move it further up my to-do list.

      25:40.657 –> 25:46.021

      [SPEAKER_00]: I know it’s brilliant, and he also talked about how they came up with a logo, you know, and it was a random thing.

      25:46.041 –> 25:50.624

      [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, people go, I think people think too much about that kind of stuff sometimes, and it’s like, well, actually.

      25:51.806 –> 26:01.922

      [SPEAKER_00]: The essence of that drawing of the swoosh is not Nike that Nike is everything that’s in that book that kind of culminated in what that brand means today.

      26:02.042 –> 26:05.528

      [SPEAKER_00]: The swoosh was just like a random throw away thing in the book and it’s…

      26:06.361 –> 26:13.629

      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s a good story, it’s a good part of the book, but it makes you realize that it’s not the be on end all the way around, really.

      26:14.149 –> 26:14.870

      [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so true.

      26:15.571 –> 26:21.577

      [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, the traffic top tip, which marketing method do you either price above all others or think doesn’t get the press, it deserves.

      26:22.598 –> 26:24.339

      [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I don’t know if this doesn’t get the president deserves.

      26:24.359 –> 26:29.263

      [SPEAKER_00]: It probably does right now, but ever since I started the business because I had no marketing budget.

      26:29.463 –> 26:34.146

      [SPEAKER_00]: So we’ve only really spent on ads in the last few years, a focused heavily on SEO.

      26:34.726 –> 26:39.370

      [SPEAKER_00]: And I knew that because I was in a niche that I could do something in that niche.

      26:39.650 –> 26:43.673

      [SPEAKER_00]: So if you, I wanted, when people’s hats and bunions use, that we would come up.

      26:44.413 –> 26:47.097

      [SPEAKER_00]: number one, or style issues of running issues.

      26:47.117 –> 26:56.491

      [SPEAKER_00]: I think style issues of running and so started with and to even today like most of our traffic and still comes from organic because of that.

      26:56.591 –> 27:00.357

      [SPEAKER_00]: And then because of all the work that we did at the beginning and have continued to do,

      27:00.797 –> 27:05.318

      [SPEAKER_00]: it’s now working for us on AI as well on LLNs.

      27:05.338 –> 27:09.339

      [SPEAKER_00]: So it’s so expensive to acquire customers through massive and Google now.

      27:09.919 –> 27:17.140

      [SPEAKER_00]: You need that underlying baseline traffic that’s just finding you through Google or wherever I think.

      27:17.680 –> 27:26.962

      [SPEAKER_00]: And so SEO is something that we are not obsessed with it, but I am obsessed with, like, I can get sometimes I can get a bit bogged down with, like, where we are on the runcings because sometimes you can really

      27:29.742 –> 27:42.314

      [SPEAKER_00]: We have to not start crying when we drop all the sitting, but for more the word that we don’t, we at some point last year, late last year, we were number one on Google for comfortable high heels.

      27:43.342 –> 27:56.530

      [SPEAKER_00]: Now, we’re not right now, but it blew my mind that we can number one on Google for comfortable high heels, like above clerks, above new lockable of any other comfortable or heels shoe brand.

      27:57.350 –> 27:59.371

      [SPEAKER_00]: And it’s what everyone types in, I’m sure they do.

      27:59.411 –> 28:00.192

      [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what I mean?

      28:00.412 –> 28:01.833

      [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, total in time.

      28:01.973 –> 28:03.153

      [SPEAKER_00]: In full high heels, do they?

      28:03.634 –> 28:10.838

      [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, the SEO recommends everybody, especially early stage businesses that don’t have big budgets.

      28:11.783 –> 28:16.205

      [SPEAKER_00]: We’ll be getting bogged down and trying to spend five quid a day on Facebook and it’s going to get you nowhere.

      28:16.565 –> 28:17.666

      [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, indeed.

      28:17.786 –> 28:18.846

      [SPEAKER_01]: I totally agree with you on that.

      28:18.986 –> 28:19.867

      [SPEAKER_01]: Love that advice.

      28:20.247 –> 28:30.192

      [SPEAKER_01]: And the tooltop tip, maybe a collaboration tool, a social media plugin, a phone app, or just a way of working, is there a little tool you use that makes you and your team more efficient from day to day?

      28:31.489 –> 28:33.931

      [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I’m going to say a few things here, some shout out.

      28:33.991 –> 28:37.234

      [SPEAKER_00]: So we use Slack where remote Slack is amazing.

      28:37.534 –> 28:40.916

      [SPEAKER_00]: I use it to leave voice notes, I use it to make videos, to team.

      28:41.857 –> 28:47.722

      [SPEAKER_00]: I don’t was not just typing communication, use it for huddles, it’s brilliant.

      28:47.782 –> 28:54.947

      [SPEAKER_00]: And it’s a way of really kind of breaking down all of your conversations so that everything stays in its nice neat little place.

      28:55.348 –> 28:57.029

      [SPEAKER_00]: Email for me is not good.

      28:57.089 –> 28:58.030

      [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I always say to people,

      29:01.092 –> 29:12.716

      [SPEAKER_00]: It just gets so much spam and so for the team and it’s like it’s where it’s at and I tell people off if they write things in the wrong channel because we have to keep things in their in their little lanes.

      29:13.396 –> 29:15.197

      [SPEAKER_01]: I do that on a sauna as well.

      29:15.237 –> 29:21.819

      [SPEAKER_01]: We use a sauna and the so it’s some very similar way to use slack and I’m forever going, I’ve copied this into the right place.

      29:25.100 –> 29:28.501

      [SPEAKER_01]: So, you mentioned Slack, you said you had a couple of others who else gets a shout out?

      29:29.021 –> 29:34.003

      [SPEAKER_00]: So, there’s a couple of social, so I’m all about the underdog because I feel like that’s what we are.

      29:34.684 –> 29:43.367

      [SPEAKER_00]: And I get annoyed when apps have in monopolies and I’m an I’m using Shopify which is pretty much of a demon opportunity.

      29:44.427 –> 30:03.474

      [SPEAKER_00]: and and and and also using gorgeous as a customer services tool and again it’s I’ve desperately would like to use a different one because it’s quite expensive but it just is so good for what we need so besides those two return software we use returns app

      30:04.574 –> 30:31.205

      [SPEAKER_00]: There’s a big ones like Swap and Loop and all of those that are quite expensive but returns up with this little company that I found and it does exactly what it says on the tin, does exactly what we need and we have quite a lot of returns like we have 30% returns because it’s what we’re and it’s really reasonable and the dead good at service as well Christmas service I’ll love them and then we move from Clavio or Clavio where we want to say it to grow wave last year for our email and SMS

      30:32.045 –> 30:39.452

      [SPEAKER_00]: because Clavio, I thought that the service was bad and probably a bit like Shopify where you can never get hold of anyone.

      30:40.613 –> 30:44.776

      [SPEAKER_00]: But then they just keep charging you more and more money, you just suppose to suck it up, don’t like that.

      30:45.217 –> 30:46.257

      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s about to go up as well.

      30:47.078 –> 30:50.901

      [SPEAKER_01]: Don’t go the putting prices up again in 2026 because it’s all going AI crazy.

      30:51.062 –> 30:51.322

      [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

      30:52.002 –> 31:09.430

      [SPEAKER_00]: I don’t like, you know, software that I feel, you know, that has a monopoly and I felt that Clavio had a bit of a holdover because he kept on in the prices up and the service wasn’t great and there was never anybody you could talk to so we moved to attentive for our email and our SMS last year.

      31:09.730 –> 31:11.891

      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s cheaper, does the same thing?

      31:11.931 –> 31:18.354

      [SPEAKER_00]: We haven’t seen any downturn in revenue, Clavio is emailing me every week saying, I think you should come back to a attentive crap,

      31:21.954 –> 31:22.294

      [SPEAKER_00]: I don’t know.

      31:22.354 –> 31:33.416

      [SPEAKER_00]: I, at the moment, attempted a fan and would recommend people to have a look at them and ask me, reach out to me if you want to anything, ask any questions about it.

      31:33.636 –> 31:39.958

      [SPEAKER_00]: And then the last one was Grow Wave and Grow Wave do reviews and they do loyalty in one.

      31:39.998 –> 31:43.819

      [SPEAKER_00]: So there’s lots of apps out there that do loyalty, like loyalty lying in that.

      31:43.839 –> 31:50.200

      [SPEAKER_00]: And then there’s a lot of reviews apps, trust pilot, oh my god, they’re like the worst of putting prices up and you have to keep ringing them up.

      31:50.880 –> 31:58.524

      [SPEAKER_00]: just pile at a like, you know, Wi-Fi, broadband people, where they just keep putting your price until you ring them up and then you put it back down again.

      31:58.684 –> 31:59.385

      [SPEAKER_00]: That annoys me.

      31:59.945 –> 32:09.070

      [SPEAKER_00]: So, grow wave is a very well-priced product that again, it just reviews and it does loyalty all in one price and great, great service

      32:14.433 –> 32:21.378

      [SPEAKER_01]: top, detailed, underdog app advice that, and yeah, and I’m a bit of a fan of an underdog too, so I love those.

      32:21.438 –> 32:25.761

      [SPEAKER_01]: I’m going to go and I think I know them all, but I’m going to go and double check, I know them all straight after this.

      32:26.502 –> 32:30.905

      [SPEAKER_01]: Carbon top tip, what’s your favourite way to reduce the carbon footprint of an e-commerce store?

      32:31.789 –> 32:36.532

      [SPEAKER_00]: So what we’ve done is on our website, we have a resale and repair service.

      32:37.293 –> 32:51.361

      [SPEAKER_00]: I was conscious that Coliseuse floating around there on eBay and vintage and that kind of stuff, and but I wanted a place that was trustworthy so our customers could buy from previous customers and they knew that those shoes

      32:52.222 –> 32:55.463

      [SPEAKER_00]: we’re going to be all right and that’s kind of like how I wanted it to be.

      32:56.023 –> 33:00.984

      [SPEAKER_00]: So we offer a place on our website where customers can sell their old shoes.

      33:01.544 –> 33:05.605

      [SPEAKER_00]: They can either take the money or they can get an uplift and buy a new pair.

      33:05.725 –> 33:09.446

      [SPEAKER_00]: So that’s where they want to do and then or they can just just sell the shoes that they’ve got.

      33:09.466 –> 33:18.908

      [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes they’ll try them little boards and one of a couple of times in realising with two big or they didn’t fit you know I mean and that kind of stuff and we can’t we can’t take them back so it’s great for that because they don’t just end

      33:21.569 –> 33:26.052

      [SPEAKER_00]: And then we also use it as a way of selling our seconds stock.

      33:26.072 –> 33:29.535

      [SPEAKER_00]: So again, so we don’t have to just pin it.

      33:29.595 –> 33:32.777

      [SPEAKER_00]: And we also use it as a way samples, getting with a sample stock as well.

      33:32.797 –> 33:36.579

      [SPEAKER_00]: Because again, I’ve got loads, loads of samples just like knocking about.

      33:37.720 –> 33:38.481

      [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, roundhouse.

      33:38.761 –> 33:39.742

      [SPEAKER_00]: Then we sell on there.

      33:40.402 –> 33:46.044

      [SPEAKER_00]: And then the other thing is the repair service that’s delivered by an app called SiteCon, CICON.

      33:46.304 –> 33:48.825

      [SPEAKER_00]: She’s got, it’s a fairly new business.

      33:49.465 –> 33:54.546

      [SPEAKER_00]: I don’t really know what’s happening with her business, it, you know, going forward because I need to try and get investment and stuff.

      33:54.926 –> 34:01.949

      [SPEAKER_00]: But basically, it means you can upload a photograph of your shoe and where it needs repairing to the website.

      34:01.989 –> 34:06.310

      [SPEAKER_00]: And then the AI will be like, this is, this is how much is going to cost you to get that bit repaired.

      34:06.810 –> 34:09.471

      [SPEAKER_00]: And I think, again, it’s all about circular economy.

      34:09.531 –> 34:12.172

      [SPEAKER_00]: That’s how we’re trying to cut our carbon footprint down.

      34:12.452 –> 34:26.838

      [SPEAKER_00]: And when we do the normal stuff with packaging and that kind of stuff, recycled packaging and recycled shoe bags, but recycled material and our shoe bags, but I wanted to go that bit one step further, and I think circular economy is where it’s at.

      34:27.198 –> 34:32.420

      [SPEAKER_00]: Given the vintage evaluation recently, I was like, oh, I have an echo with that idea.

      34:33.970 –> 34:38.832

      [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know, I know, and how much they’ve forced everyone else in the marketplace to change as well.

      34:39.332 –> 34:39.872

      [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don’t…

      34:40.872 –> 34:45.194

      [SPEAKER_01]: It is mad, but I love that you’re going down the circular route because it seems…

      34:45.394 –> 34:51.636

      [SPEAKER_01]: If I think that anyone listening will think that that’s not going to work well with your customer base, and you’re, you know, the why of your business.

      34:51.656 –> 34:54.216

      [SPEAKER_01]: So, so Jen, thanks for sharing all of that with us.

      34:54.616 –> 34:59.458

      [SPEAKER_01]: Before you say goodbye, could you please let the listeners know where they can find you, and your business on the web and social?

      34:59.968 –> 35:04.932

      [SPEAKER_00]: So you can find is it callushoose.co.uk or callushoose.com.

      35:05.072 –> 35:06.993

      [SPEAKER_00]: Both of them will get you to where you need to get to.

      35:07.613 –> 35:10.936

      [SPEAKER_00]: We are on all of the socials.

      35:11.036 –> 35:13.978

      [SPEAKER_00]: We’ve got 221,000 followers on Instagram.

      35:13.998 –> 35:15.439

      [SPEAKER_00]: So please come and add to that.

      35:16.259 –> 35:17.520

      [SPEAKER_00]: Callushoose.uk.

      35:17.540 –> 35:21.183

      [SPEAKER_00]: We want TikTok, one YouTube Pinterest.

      35:22.224 –> 35:23.184

      [SPEAKER_00]: Come follow us on all of them.

      35:23.204 –> 35:23.805

      [SPEAKER_00]: Come find us.

      35:24.713 –> 35:24.994

      [SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.

      35:25.034 –> 35:26.076

      [SPEAKER_01]: I’m sure everyone will.

      35:26.276 –> 35:27.940

      [SPEAKER_01]: Jenny, thank you so much for being on the show.

      35:27.960 –> 35:32.088

      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s been fascinating chatting with you and thank you for sharing so much with the audience.

      35:32.108 –> 35:33.009

      [SPEAKER_01]: We really appreciate it.

      35:33.751 –> 35:34.552

      [SPEAKER_00]: No problem.

      35:40.401 –> 35:46.047

      [SPEAKER_01]: some juicy tech recommendations there at the end from Jenny and what a fascinating chat.

      35:46.087 –> 35:53.055

      [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, fascinating how she’s using the community of customers to build the business better.

      35:53.175 –> 35:59.982

      [SPEAKER_01]: I thought the way she was breaking down the collaboration into those three different customer bases, or those three different collaborator bases.

      36:00.423 –> 36:02.105

      [SPEAKER_01]: So the expert podire trists,

      36:02.665 –> 36:04.566

      [SPEAKER_01]: who they’re using working within different ways.

      36:04.926 –> 36:19.270

      [SPEAKER_01]: The actual advocates of the shoes, the people with the problem, who have presence online, and then the more straightforward partnerships, with other businesses who speak to similar audiences, well, there’s a lovely venn diagram over that.

      36:19.450 –> 36:22.091

      [SPEAKER_01]: Really fascinating chatting to her there.

      36:22.351 –> 36:24.852

      [SPEAKER_01]: Lots for us all to think about, I think, as a result of that one.

      36:25.132 –> 36:29.453

      [SPEAKER_01]: You can get your hands on the notes from this episode, including the top tips and links to what we’ve mentioned

      36:32.154 –> 36:42.443

      [SPEAKER_01]: You can also use our direct episode short links, just put ECMP.info for us as the number of the episode into the URL bar and you’ll be redirected straight to the right episode page.

      36:42.823 –> 36:50.090

      [SPEAKER_01]: When you get to the website, you can also add yourself to our email list so you don’t miss out on any of the other things I share to help you improve your business.

      36:50.630 –> 37:02.520

      [SPEAKER_01]: Now, if you like this episode, then I recommend going and checking out Episode 480, which is again in the world of footwear, but this time we’re talking barefoot footwear with pool from Vivo barefoot.

      37:02.660 –> 37:04.722

      [SPEAKER_01]: That’s episode 480 for that one.

      37:05.242 –> 37:15.351

      [SPEAKER_01]: And if you want more generally on footwear and fashion, then ECMP.info forward slash fashion, we’ll take you to a page on the website where we have all our fashion episodes listed out.

      37:15.851 –> 37:20.293

      [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for tuning in to this and every episode of the e-commerce master plan podcast.

      37:20.633 –> 37:32.499

      [SPEAKER_01]: I bring you a new interview every week because I want to inspire and help e-commerce business owners like you to succeed and thrive with your businesses, including encouraging businesses and consumers to make more sustainable buying decisions.

      37:32.939 –> 37:37.961

      [SPEAKER_01]: So if you know someone this show can help please tell them to listen to the e-commerce master plan podcast.

      37:38.582 –> 37:40.322

      [SPEAKER_01]: I hope you have a great week and don’t forget to

      37:44.618 –> 37:47.981

      [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for listening to the e-commerce Master Plan podcast.

      37:48.382 –> 37:53.267

      [SPEAKER_02]: Find out more at e-commercemasterplanned.com slash podcast.

      38 min
    • eCommerce MasterPlan | 605: WWYD as Head of eCommerce Entering the Preloved Market? Andy Ostcliffe

      Andy Ostcliffe is the Chief at Chiefly, where they’re experts on the Charity Retail Sector and pre-loved sales across product categories. Previously Andy co-created and led two of the world’s largest charity online retailers – Oxfam and British Heart Foundation. 

       

      Andy joins Chloe for a What Would You Do? episode, exploring what today’s Head of eCommerce should do if their fashion brand wants to enter the growing pre-loved market. Together, they unpack the operational, commercial, and regulatory challenges, and discuss how brands can build a strategy that works for both customers and the business. 

       

      Hit PLAY to hear: 

      • Why launching a pre-loved store is much harder than it looks  
      • The surprising reason Marks & Spencer chose eBay over building its own resale platform 
      • How AI could make fashion resale dramatically more profitable  
      • The regulations coming for fashion brands—and why you should prepare now 
      • What really happens to clothes after you donate them (it’s not what most people think) 
      • Why live shopping is becoming one of the hottest opportunities in eCommerce  

        •  

        Key timestamps to dive straight in: 

        [04:38] Retailers and preloved fashion trends 

        [06:28] Challenges in retail logistics 

        [09:35] Economic challenges for PLC retailers 

        [13:03] Impact of Secondhand Sales 

        [16:55] UK charity shops and new regulations 

        [21:16] Impact of Online Resale on Charities 

        [23:29] Ghana’s role in pre-loved fashion 

        [29:29] Pricing and stock rotation strategies 

        [31:00] Retail strategy for preloved fashion 

        [35:31] Listen to Andy’s Top Tips! 

         

        Full episode notes here: https://ecmp.info/605

        —

        Download our ebook… https://ecmp.info/ebook 500 Tips to Increase Your Profits

        Get all the links and resources we mention and join our email list at https://ecmp.info

        Love the show? Chloe would love your feedback – leave a review here: https://ecmp.info/review or reply to the episode QandA on Spotify.

        Interested in being a Sponsor? go here: https://ecmp.info/sponsor

        Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

        Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

        WEBVTT

        00:00.592 –> 00:04.077

        [SPEAKER_00]: AI has made a massive amount of impact.

        00:04.577 –> 00:10.726

        [SPEAKER_00]: However, we haven’t used AI in mainstream retail for retail itself.

        00:10.946 –> 00:15.112

        [SPEAKER_00]: So coming forward with an extended produced responsibility, data.

        00:15.372 –> 00:17.213

        [SPEAKER_00]: will become king.

        00:17.773 –> 00:32.720

        [SPEAKER_00]: Because data is how the fashion brand retailer will report on what it’s done with a garment, how many they received where they went, how many they sold, how many came back, how many were disposed of data will be king.

        00:35.683 –> 00:38.084

        [SPEAKER_01]: It’s the e-commerce master plan podcast.

        00:38.625 –> 00:42.707

        [SPEAKER_01]: Here to help you solve your marketing problems and grow your e-commerce business.

        00:43.207 –> 00:51.011

        [SPEAKER_01]: Cutting through the hive to bring you inspiration and advice from the e-commerce sector and beyond, here’s your host, Chloe Thomas.

        00:54.442 –> 00:55.443

        [SPEAKER_02]: Hello and welcome.

        00:55.483 –> 00:56.685

        [SPEAKER_02]: It’s great to have you here.

        00:56.745 –> 01:00.529

        [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for hitting play and choosing to listen to one of our inspiring guests.

        01:01.210 –> 01:05.755

        [SPEAKER_02]: In this episode, we’ve got a past guest back on for something a little different.

        01:05.876 –> 01:14.386

        [SPEAKER_02]: Last time Andy was on the show was an epic three years ago and he was here telling us about how they do online retail at.

        01:14.906 –> 01:17.889

        [SPEAKER_02]: charity, organisation, orksfam, which was fascinating.

        01:18.369 –> 01:27.076

        [SPEAKER_02]: This time he’s back to get deep into the world of pre-loved, and all the ins and outs of it is one of our, what would you do, episode guests?

        01:27.677 –> 01:29.158

        [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, what would you do with Andy?

        01:29.779 –> 01:33.462

        [SPEAKER_02]: It’s a big one, and we really are going to be talking all around it.

        01:33.842 –> 01:41.428

        [SPEAKER_02]: We are doing what would you do if you were ahead of e-commerce at a fashion brand wanting to play in the second hand or pre-loved space?

        01:43.550 –> 02:02.335

        [SPEAKER_02]: all the things you need to think about as we get into this and maybe come to some conclusions maybe not, but it’s absolutely fascinating to hear from someone who is so deep in the world of pre-loved and the charity sector and how all of that links through to what we do in mainstream, I suppose, fashion retail.

        02:02.875 –> 02:04.618

        [SPEAKER_02]: So, fascinating stuff coming up.

        02:04.658 –> 02:14.010

        [SPEAKER_02]: Make sure you listen right to the end because Andy’s got some brilliant top tips including some amazing stats around live stream shopping of all things.

        02:20.086 –> 02:22.007

        [SPEAKER_02]: and now to introduce our special guest.

        02:22.507 –> 02:30.831

        [SPEAKER_02]: Andy Oscliffe is the chief at chiefly, where their experts on the charity retail sector and pre-loved sales across product categories.

        02:31.351 –> 02:40.895

        [SPEAKER_02]: Previously, Andy co-created and led two of the world’s largest charity online retailers, Oxfam and British Heart Foundation, hello, Andy.

        02:41.616 –> 02:42.936

        [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, Chloe, what an introduction.

        02:43.016 –> 02:44.117

        [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you very much indeed.

        02:44.501 –> 02:45.601

        [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it’s all user.

        02:45.641 –> 02:46.442

        [SPEAKER_02]: It’s all you.

        02:47.342 –> 02:49.843

        [SPEAKER_02]: Lovely to have you back on the show.

        02:50.223 –> 02:53.785

        [SPEAKER_02]: How have things been, since we last caught up in a few years now?

        02:54.285 –> 02:55.326

        [SPEAKER_00]: It has been a few years.

        02:56.226 –> 03:03.429

        [SPEAKER_00]: I was just saying I’ve read your book a few times on flights going backwards and forwards across the globe.

        03:03.869 –> 03:08.351

        [SPEAKER_00]: It’s been particularly busy, but very, very interesting.

        03:08.744 –> 03:19.890

        [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it’s a fascinating time to be in, I don’t think these days I’m not sure whether we call it secondhand or circular or what the right terminology is anymore, but to be in that used fashion space is fascinating.

        03:20.287 –> 03:23.868

        [SPEAKER_00]: that he’s pre-loved, come on, it’s been a second time.

        03:23.968 –> 03:24.888

        [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.

        03:24.948 –> 03:26.109

        [SPEAKER_02]: Sorry.

        03:26.189 –> 03:26.829

        [SPEAKER_00]: Fascinating.

        03:27.089 –> 03:27.669

        [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

        03:28.069 –> 03:36.251

        [SPEAKER_00]: If you look at some of the stats in terms of, number of views is on certain platforms, of which I’m sure we’ll get into.

        03:37.232 –> 03:44.734

        [SPEAKER_00]: What people are buying and their price points, then I think it’s an exciting time as a consumer.

        03:44.934 –> 03:48.615

        [SPEAKER_00]: It could be quite a challenging time as a mainstream retailer.

        03:49.284 –> 03:50.706

        [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think it’s interesting.

        03:50.726 –> 03:52.548

        [SPEAKER_02]: We’ve kind of got the tech evolving.

        03:52.948 –> 03:59.395

        [SPEAKER_02]: We’ve got the consumer behaviours evolving and we’ve got completely different business models coming into play as well.

        03:59.515 –> 04:07.164

        [SPEAKER_02]: And I think for anyone who’s running a fashion brand in particular, because that’s kind of at the bleeding edge of it, is fashion at the minute.

        04:07.684 –> 04:09.306

        [SPEAKER_02]: Anyone running a fashion brand at the moment?

        04:10.467 –> 04:19.733

        [SPEAKER_02]: working out how to play in this space for whatever reason they want to play in this space, because that’s a whole other list of questions as well.

        04:20.213 –> 04:22.775

        [SPEAKER_02]: It’s really difficult to work out what to do.

        04:22.855 –> 04:29.379

        [SPEAKER_02]: So, you’ve suggested we do what would you do if you were ahead of e-commerce at a fashion brand, wanting to play in the second-hand space?

        04:29.399 –> 04:37.424

        [SPEAKER_02]: So, and what would you do if you were ahead of e-commerce at a fashion brand wanting to play in the second-hand and I should say pre-loved space right now?

        04:38.248 –> 04:39.689

        [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, we’re a great question.

        04:40.169 –> 04:49.936

        [SPEAKER_00]: And again, mainstream retailers are literally scratching their heads because let’s break up what a fashion retailer looks like.

        04:50.057 –> 04:56.221

        [SPEAKER_00]: You’ve got the value element of the sector, which could be supermarket fashion.

        04:56.401 –> 05:00.364

        [SPEAKER_00]: It could be love entry such as Primark.

        05:00.744 –> 05:14.973

        [SPEAKER_00]: who are planning that particular space, but very much from a bricks and mortar perspective, but watch that space because their main shareholder has a few months ago decided to sell off

        05:15.673 –> 05:25.736

        [SPEAKER_00]: parts of their business, Prime Mark will be separated from that main parent company, who knows you may get some new shareholders coming along saying, why are we not online?

        05:25.816 –> 05:29.237

        [SPEAKER_00]: So that may change that that view a little.

        05:29.857 –> 05:38.660

        [SPEAKER_00]: But if you, if you were to look at the market place now and say, who is, who is really serious about pre-loved fashion, I’d have to say

        05:40.520 –> 05:45.822

        [SPEAKER_00]: and it’s Marx and Sponsors, it’s a third-party resale platform and it’s eBay.

        05:46.422 –> 05:49.164

        [SPEAKER_00]: And they’re really giving it a good girl.

        05:49.324 –> 05:51.044

        [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, who knew?

        05:51.484 –> 05:58.887

        [SPEAKER_00]: This is the retail chain where my mum goes for underwear, now experimenting with pre-law fashion online.

        05:59.588 –> 06:07.191

        [SPEAKER_02]: And I find it so interesting that M&S have, they haven’t gone for the doing it on our website.

        06:08.064 –> 06:09.825

        [SPEAKER_02]: You know, they’re not doing the buyback.

        06:09.885 –> 06:12.867

        [SPEAKER_02]: We recondition, we control it on our own platform.

        06:12.907 –> 06:15.368

        [SPEAKER_02]: They’re doing the, we buy it back.

        06:15.809 –> 06:19.591

        [SPEAKER_02]: And then we sell it on eBay in the M&S eBay shop.

        06:19.811 –> 06:22.452

        [SPEAKER_02]: Which is such a, such a surprise.

        06:22.673 –> 06:24.574

        [SPEAKER_02]: I thought they’d have wanted the brand control.

        06:24.694 –> 06:26.755

        [SPEAKER_02]: I didn’t think they’d have wanted on a third party platform.

        06:26.775 –> 06:28.396

        [SPEAKER_02]: I find that strategically intriguing.

        06:29.080 –> 06:30.620

        [SPEAKER_00]: It’s not easy, it’s difficult.

        06:30.661 –> 06:37.102

        [SPEAKER_00]: So if you look at, let’s look at some main stream retail brands in fashion.

        06:37.663 –> 06:41.324

        [SPEAKER_00]: And let’s take one of the supermarket fashion brands.

        06:42.484 –> 06:49.266

        [SPEAKER_00]: And the way that they’re logistics, they’re entire infrastructure, they’re entire operation works through 3PL.

        06:49.326 –> 06:55.708

        [SPEAKER_00]: So with Sainsbury’s as a really good example, DHL are one of their biggest 3PL providers.

        06:58.809 –> 07:15.297

        [SPEAKER_00]: dealing with brand new products, the logistics of it arriving just in time, the distribution into the store network, all the reverse logistics that take place in terms of product that just didn’t sell in the store versus returns.

        07:15.878 –> 07:20.300

        [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes product just doesn’t even arrive at the supermarket

        07:26.503 –> 07:34.566

        [SPEAKER_00]: new goods were challenging in terms of logistics models and the just in times that have to fall into place for that happen.

        07:35.266 –> 07:36.106

        [SPEAKER_00]: But you loved is it?

        07:36.266 –> 07:45.309

        [SPEAKER_00]: It’s just another ball game, different sizes, different styles, different seasons and have you got enough of the same product?

        07:45.369 –> 07:51.551

        [SPEAKER_00]: Because sometimes you may just have a handful of pair of 501s and yet you’re going to

        07:55.712 –> 07:57.033

        [SPEAKER_00]: x price coming and get them.

        07:57.073 –> 08:13.666

        [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it is it does have some real challenges and maybe Marx and Spencer’s decided that by offloading that to a third party, they can trial, they can test, they can see, but ultimately if it went wrong, it’s not really our problem.

        08:13.686 –> 08:16.809

        [SPEAKER_00]: That’s the third party supply who’s dealing with that part of our business.

        08:17.653 –> 08:29.063

        [SPEAKER_02]: I think you make such a good point there in terms of, even if you want to do it yourself internally, you know, you’re a smaller brand who it’s, you know, it fits with what you do and who you are and everything.

        08:30.364 –> 08:34.368

        [SPEAKER_02]: It is a completely different business model.

        08:34.888 –> 08:45.536

        [SPEAKER_02]: Everything is different from product photography to ironing and mending things potentially to having you used to have for the blue blue jeans.

        08:45.776 –> 08:52.601

        [SPEAKER_02]: You had five sizes and depth of identical product units on each of those five sizes.

        08:52.821 –> 08:55.382

        [SPEAKER_02]: Now you have five sizes plus three conditions.

        08:56.383 –> 09:08.891

        [SPEAKER_02]: with potentially individual photography, potentially individual descriptions, you’ve then got items of one, you know, logistically marketing it’s different website, how it behaves and how that functions is different.

        09:09.292 –> 09:22.841

        [SPEAKER_02]: So I think whether you’re going to do the outsource third party option for where you sell it, who manages it or whether you’re going to do it as a within your existing warehouse space and within your existing team,

        09:23.761 –> 09:35.230

        [SPEAKER_02]: It’s as complicated as suddenly opening up a retail shop, I think, in terms of how you manage it as a business and the different techniques, it’s not just going to fit into your existing systems.

        09:35.831 –> 09:36.731

        [SPEAKER_00]: I agree, I agree.

        09:36.891 –> 09:40.915

        [SPEAKER_00]: And so if we thought the logistics were challenging enough,

        09:41.415 –> 10:03.192

        [SPEAKER_00]: let’s just look at the economics because when you throw economics at this which is quite clearly where PLC retailers are now heavily focusing what’s the return if we invest what do our shareholders expect and sort of those shareholders are now huge organizations so they’re

        10:06.494 –> 10:07.815

        [SPEAKER_00]: more than ever before.

        10:07.875 –> 10:19.601

        [SPEAKER_00]: So the economics and let’s just dive into economics because we all know vintage in terms of the platform is and its success has been phenomenal.

        10:19.721 –> 10:23.783

        [SPEAKER_00]: So we saw vintage created in Europe.

        10:24.323 –> 10:26.724

        [SPEAKER_00]: it comes to the UK.

        10:27.024 –> 10:32.407

        [SPEAKER_00]: It collects in the UK 17.2 million users.

        10:32.727 –> 10:40.851

        [SPEAKER_00]: That’s almost a third of the population operating on a platform that buys and sells pre-loved fashion.

        10:41.191 –> 10:42.112

        [SPEAKER_00]: So, they’re

        10:48.495 –> 11:01.506

        [SPEAKER_00]: fashion platform, and suddenly then out of nowhere, in a very, very sneaky low key PR piece vintage say, or but we’re now operating in Australia.

        11:02.267 –> 11:10.134

        [SPEAKER_00]: So when you look at the economics, and let’s just take a pair of jeans that you would buy from mainstream retail for £100,

        11:11.655 –> 11:26.446

        [SPEAKER_00]: and you can buy them on Vinted for 10 Palms, where on Earth would mainstream retail trying get involved with the price dynamics of how that works, all the organisation, all the extra work,

        11:27.166 –> 11:33.528

        [SPEAKER_00]: all that range in merchandising and you’re going to sell it for a tenth of what it is in the store.

        11:34.388 –> 11:46.030

        [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it just doesn’t fit inside mainstream retail and maybe that’s why we’re not seeing mainstream retail at the moment entering the pre-loved marketplace.

        11:46.070 –> 11:47.971

        [SPEAKER_00]: Now, just one more point because

        11:49.071 –> 11:56.836

        [SPEAKER_00]: fashion retailers for quite some time have been very active around, well let’s just concentrate on the sourcing.

        11:57.356 –> 12:03.900

        [SPEAKER_00]: Let’s make sure that some of the content of the product that were manufacturing has recycled material within it.

        12:04.801 –> 12:14.607

        [SPEAKER_00]: Let’s show some of our credentials and maybe pick up some of our audience around feeling better, not feeling good, but feeling better about buying new clothing that

        12:17.949 –> 12:23.537

        [SPEAKER_00]: but you do come to a point that there’s only so much recycled material.

        12:23.557 –> 12:24.598

        [SPEAKER_00]: This is where we get geeky.

        12:24.939 –> 12:34.351

        [SPEAKER_00]: There’s only so much recycled material you can actually put in a new piece of clothing where it will keep it safe, it’s texture, it’s form, it’s colour.

        12:34.892 –> 12:48.502

        [SPEAKER_00]: So the quiet restricted really, and therefore I think we’ve got an audience, we quite clearly in the UK have picked up a shopper who wants value for money, they want to shop on their terms.

        12:49.303 –> 12:56.488

        [SPEAKER_00]: It’s almost become a social activity and don’t get me started on live if we pick this up

        13:03.263 –> 13:04.524

        [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, oh yeah, completely.

        13:04.584 –> 13:11.587

        [SPEAKER_02]: But I think the economics, yes, the economics you outlined is clearly the core economics part of this.

        13:11.667 –> 13:14.288

        [SPEAKER_02]: But then I think we have two other things coming into play.

        13:15.489 –> 13:29.935

        [SPEAKER_02]: One of which is the data, and I think it was Boston University did the research where customers who are buying second hand and selling back second hand to the brand have a better lifetime value than those who are only buy full price products.

        13:32.356 –> 13:36.338

        [SPEAKER_02]: trackable impact on customer lifetime value that’s positive.

        13:36.999 –> 13:54.649

        [SPEAKER_02]: And then we’ve also got the increasing pressure and legislation on brands to deal with their end of life and inverted commerce, end of first use products, be that returns, be that deadstock, be that customer used

        14:01.222 –> 14:03.845

        [SPEAKER_02]: Ooh, there’s loads of our product on Vintage and eBay.

        14:03.985 –> 14:10.952

        [SPEAKER_02]: I want a slice of that, which I get, you know, but as you just outline the economic, it’s not big margins, we’re talking about here.

        14:11.773 –> 14:19.381

        [SPEAKER_02]: But then there’s also the things we’ve got to build anyway so let’s leverage more product through that process, if that makes sense.

        14:19.441 –> 14:23.065

        [SPEAKER_02]: And then the legislative cost that’s going to be coming in our direction sooner or later.

        14:23.085 –> 14:23.525

        [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

        14:23.825 –> 14:43.673

        [SPEAKER_00]: Let’s look at legislation because legislation is active in Europe and I’ve spent some time across the Netherlands to understand and the Netherlands in terms of extended producer responsibility and of course then you’ve got digital product passport which follows that first piece of legislation

        14:49.155 –> 14:51.177

        [SPEAKER_00]: Clearly, extender prison’s responsibility.

        14:51.477 –> 14:59.402

        [SPEAKER_00]: Give more responsibility to the clothing brands as to what happens that garment treats finished after another life really.

        15:00.303 –> 15:12.191

        [SPEAKER_00]: Now the Netherlands is quite strict in terms of the legislation and each state within Europe has decided its own

        15:15.473 –> 15:20.696

        [SPEAKER_00]: You can find yourself in maybe 50% only needs to be recycled.

        15:20.836 –> 15:24.678

        [SPEAKER_00]: The Netherlands were getting up to 75% needs to be recycled.

        15:25.458 –> 15:31.021

        [SPEAKER_00]: And this is where retailers are really starting to they’re looking at this from an opportunity.

        15:31.461 –> 15:34.903

        [SPEAKER_00]: The opportunity is for you to bring back

        15:35.583 –> 15:42.229

        [SPEAKER_00]: You’re clothing back into store and the brand issues you with a credit.

        15:42.269 –> 15:45.272

        [SPEAKER_00]: So it might be 10% off or 15% off.

        15:45.893 –> 15:48.535

        [SPEAKER_00]: And therefore, they’re encouraging reuse.

        15:49.396 –> 15:52.659

        [SPEAKER_00]: You come into store, you hand over your baggie.

        15:52.819 –> 15:58.825

        [SPEAKER_00]: And it doesn’t have to be like for like it could be five cashes and two pairs of jeans and you’re shopping for a new jacket, for example.

        15:59.365 –> 16:03.109

        [SPEAKER_00]: and you get a monetary value off your next shop.

        16:03.429 –> 16:15.781

        [SPEAKER_00]: Now, sneakily, that does work, but it also entices us to buy another item, but you could argue we’re recycling the item also.

        16:15.801 –> 16:20.946

        [SPEAKER_00]: Now, we’ll talk about where those items go and what volume because that is becoming

        16:21.847 –> 16:39.458

        [SPEAKER_00]: very interesting, but we have put in place an a commercial piece of mechanism that makes the shopper psychologically feel better because they’ve brought in their old clothing, they’re buying something new.

        16:39.939 –> 16:44.822

        [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, I win on both ends really, so that’s that’s starting to have a

        16:47.363 –> 17:12.053

        [SPEAKER_00]: Where this would really start to show up in the UK’s, once we get to that point of having extended producer responsibility and it is common, Defa have put this stuff for quite some time, but with mainstream Europe now deploying this Australia to across in the states in various and various US states are now bringing out extended producer responsibility.

        17:12.313 –> 17:12.914

        [SPEAKER_00]: The UK is not

        17:16.495 –> 17:18.375

        [SPEAKER_00]: warning that comes with this.

        17:19.356 –> 17:29.218

        [SPEAKER_00]: Out of any other country, the saturation or the population that we have in terms of charity shops is huge.

        17:29.598 –> 17:30.378

        [SPEAKER_00]: Let’s think about this.

        17:31.118 –> 17:36.259

        [SPEAKER_00]: Some estimates say we’ve got up to 10,000 charity shops on the high street.

        17:36.799 –> 17:40.580

        [SPEAKER_00]: And the way that a charity shop exists is essentially we all know this.

        17:40.600 –> 17:45.081

        [SPEAKER_00]: You bring items of clothing into the charity shop, you make a donation or it could

        17:46.162 –> 18:02.901

        [SPEAKER_00]: the donation bank that’s in the car park of your chosen supermarket shop that you go to on the weekend, we deposit a bag of our things we’ve had a wardrobe clear out and the charity shop goes through those items they decide what can be resold and they put them either online or

        18:05.063 –> 18:23.312

        [SPEAKER_00]: If, suddenly, the big brand retailers now start offering an incentive, a financial incentive for you to walk into store with those items rather than taking them to the charity shop who, sometimes, and they are getting much better at this, decide what they want and what they don’t want.

        18:24.431 –> 18:27.312

        [SPEAKER_00]: No, we don’t want those items, but we will have those.

        18:27.352 –> 18:28.052

        [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you very much.

        18:28.853 –> 18:41.278

        [SPEAKER_00]: If that, it turned out on its head where the supermarket accepts anything or the mainstream fashion retailer accepts anything and you get a monetary coupon, then suddenly, where did all the plea of clothing go?

        18:41.418 –> 18:44.979

        [SPEAKER_00]: Because it’s not going to the charity shop, it’s going back into mainstream retailers.

        18:45.339 –> 18:52.762

        [SPEAKER_00]: And that is a danger, that is a warning for mainstream UK charge retail to watch out and maybe come up with some

        18:54.724 –> 19:03.743

        [SPEAKER_00]: marketing concepts to keep level with what mainstream retail could start doing over here in the UK.

        19:04.752 –> 19:05.553

        [SPEAKER_02]: interesting.

        19:06.313 –> 19:08.014

        [SPEAKER_02]: I didn’t think you were going to go there.

        19:08.995 –> 19:27.606

        [SPEAKER_02]: I thought you were going to talk about charity shops having too much stock because I think there’s an element of from a consumer standpoint where I think consumers are going to have to start taking or should start taking more responsibility for the end of life of their products where I think

        19:29.268 –> 19:37.820

        [SPEAKER_02]: There’s, you know, you can feel good by selling it and inverted commas back to the retailer for a £5.0 for a 10% off.

        19:38.320 –> 19:41.845

        [SPEAKER_02]: And then you can feel good by donating it to the charity.

        19:43.346 –> 20:05.312

        [SPEAKER_02]: But in both instances, some of that product is gonna end up being recycled or passed on or flown around the world and dumped on somebody else because if you know, this little river of clothes running down the place, we’re still manufacturing too much more than the world needs, not just more than the UK needs.

        20:06.072 –> 20:10.176

        [SPEAKER_02]: which I think comes into your fascinating trip to Ghana with all of this.

        20:10.536 –> 20:16.602

        [SPEAKER_02]: But it’s, we have this kind of tidal wave of product which we’re just dumping on the third world.

        20:16.822 –> 20:18.204

        [SPEAKER_02]: It’s probably the wrong terminology to use.

        20:18.244 –> 20:22.188

        [SPEAKER_02]: We’re dumping on other countries to deal with rather than dealing with it ourselves.

        20:22.588 –> 20:24.109

        [SPEAKER_02]: Everyone, Annie’s smirking at me here.

        20:24.129 –> 20:26.392

        [SPEAKER_02]: So I’m going to stop digging the hole and let the expert talk.

        20:26.412 –> 20:27.813

        [SPEAKER_00]: I’m going to say goodbye.

        20:28.534 –> 20:36.580

        [SPEAKER_00]: I find the analogy really interesting and let’s start this journey of where clothing goes.

        20:37.461 –> 20:51.672

        [SPEAKER_00]: I’ll let’s start with the charity shop and we’ll break this down and we’ll look at where mainstream retail falls into this and we’ll try and pull in some online and to be commerce as we go to to keep your audience interested because they’re probably thinking at this moment

        20:57.597 –> 21:09.559

        [SPEAKER_00]: If you look at what we are doing with our closet, when we sort our closet at the moment, with 17.2 million users, augmented, we are creating essentially two banks.

        21:09.599 –> 21:16.381

        [SPEAKER_00]: We’re creating a bag that we’re prepared to take the charity shop and we’re creating another bag that potentially has more value in it.

        21:16.861 –> 21:25.603

        [SPEAKER_00]: And 17.2 million of us are deciding that we’re going to have a go at this, and we’re going to sell it on vented, and we’re going to realize some value out of what our wardrobe

        21:28.003 –> 21:48.871

        [SPEAKER_00]: That creates a problem for charity, because charity, once you’ve worn a supermarket brand t-shirt for more than half a dozen or a dozen times, and there are various claims from various brands of how long their product lasts, it’s still a supermarket brand t-shirt.

        21:48.911 –> 21:51.092

        [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, what do you think it’s worth?

        21:52.132 –> 22:03.379

        [SPEAKER_00]: And if you go back a couple of years, charter shops would relish the Benchum and polo t-shirt, the boss t-shirt, et cetera, et cetera.

        22:03.439 –> 22:06.441

        [SPEAKER_00]: The big, you know, the designer brand style product,

        22:07.141 –> 22:10.283

        [SPEAKER_00]: will sit proudly inside that shop.

        22:10.744 –> 22:18.049

        [SPEAKER_00]: But they’re running out of that product and the reason why is that suddenly we found that it’s got a value and we’re deciding to cash in that value ourselves.

        22:18.089 –> 22:24.954

        [SPEAKER_00]: So a lot, not all of a, a lot of product which is finding its way into UK charity is

        22:27.255 –> 22:29.717

        [SPEAKER_00]: economic value product.

        22:30.538 –> 22:32.140

        [SPEAKER_00]: And what did you do with it?

        22:32.640 –> 22:44.051

        [SPEAKER_00]: Well, there were two really big recycling plants in Europe currently working under full economic mechanisms.

        22:44.091 –> 22:44.652

        [SPEAKER_00]: That’s best for our

        22:47.454 –> 22:48.995

        [SPEAKER_00]: is not a proof of concept.

        22:49.475 –> 22:57.278

        [SPEAKER_00]: It’s not a, we’ve got part of the machine, but we’re just waiting for the other part to arrive, that full-blown operational sites.

        22:57.679 –> 23:00.040

        [SPEAKER_00]: There’s one in Turkey and there’s one in Sweden.

        23:00.380 –> 23:06.903

        [SPEAKER_00]: And if you’re looking for true fiber to fiber, that’s the direction of where that product currently translates.

        23:07.583 –> 23:15.950

        [SPEAKER_00]: Now, if you then go back to the charity shop, the charity shop will have a collection for what we call a rag merchant.

        23:16.510 –> 23:17.971

        [SPEAKER_00]: A rag merchant is just that.

        23:18.111 –> 23:26.278

        [SPEAKER_00]: It’s someone who comes around and offers a price per kilo for the excess product that you’ve generated from that particular location.

        23:26.938 –> 23:32.821

        [SPEAKER_00]: And let’s lump together a number of shops, secure a national charity retailer.

        23:32.841 –> 23:34.542

        [SPEAKER_00]: You’ve got 200 shops or more.

        23:35.082 –> 23:36.202

        [SPEAKER_00]: Not few of those are enough.

        23:36.222 –> 23:37.483

        [SPEAKER_00]: Many of those around at the moment.

        23:37.503 –> 23:39.564

        [SPEAKER_00]: But you’ve got 200 chance shops or more.

        23:39.864 –> 23:41.145

        [SPEAKER_00]: You’ve got a national agreement.

        23:41.505 –> 23:42.666

        [SPEAKER_00]: That Rage is collected.

        23:43.126 –> 23:50.569

        [SPEAKER_00]: Some of it is sorted in the UK and then it’s created into product types and product mixers.

        23:52.110 –> 23:52.631

        [SPEAKER_00]: Ghana.

        23:53.231 –> 23:53.972

        [SPEAKER_00]: Why Ghana?

        23:54.612 –> 24:02.479

        [SPEAKER_00]: Ghana is by far the largest market place in the world for pre-loved fashion.

        24:03.820 –> 24:06.262

        [SPEAKER_00]: Do you get a lot of questions as to, well, why?

        24:07.023 –> 24:17.592

        [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you’ve got 30,000 market traders who operate in the Cantermanto Marketplace in Akra, the capital of Ghana.

        24:18.552 –> 24:24.477

        [SPEAKER_00]: and having spent some time inside that marketplace absolutely fascinating.

        24:25.057 –> 24:35.505

        [SPEAKER_00]: If you get an opportunity to go, you get a visa clearance and a passport control actually let you in the country then go and have a look because it is a fascinating place.

        24:36.085 –> 24:45.893

        [SPEAKER_00]: So 1.2 million people are reliant upon that marketplace to earn a living or whether it’s provide education or healthcare,

        24:46.853 –> 24:48.375

        [SPEAKER_00]: economics for their own family.

        24:48.935 –> 24:59.623

        [SPEAKER_00]: It’s a really important piece of infrastructure, so much so the Ghanaian government recognised that this is a integral part of their economy, so don’t take it away.

        25:00.564 –> 25:07.989

        [SPEAKER_00]: And there are lots and lots of statistics where some organisations will tell you that 40% of what

        25:11.932 –> 25:17.037

        [SPEAKER_00]: And that’s why all gets kicked out and it gets washed down streamed and it turns upon a beach.

        25:17.357 –> 25:25.144

        [SPEAKER_00]: And those are the pictures and the photographs that the journalists love to see and love to send to it.

        25:25.404 –> 25:37.315

        [SPEAKER_00]: And the reason for that is it creates headlines, headlines create traffic, traffic creates a monetary connection for their newspaper or their article or for the journalists.

        25:38.395 –> 25:51.278

        [SPEAKER_00]: But be very aware of that that 40% waste, if you were to look at that red collection in the UK, if everything they did was 40% waste, they just wouldn’t be in business.

        25:51.978 –> 26:02.781

        [SPEAKER_00]: If the whole sailor on the marketplace who bought that parcel and everything in that bail of clothing was 40% waste, they wouldn’t be in business either, neither would be the market trader.

        26:07.822 –> 26:17.545

        [SPEAKER_00]: The Bales arrive 57,000 tons, a year arriving Ghana, just from the UK.

        26:18.005 –> 26:23.846

        [SPEAKER_00]: We are the biggest exporter of pre-lift clothing to that particular location.

        26:23.946 –> 26:27.507

        [SPEAKER_00]: More than China, more than America, more than the whole of Europe.

        26:27.627 –> 26:28.828

        [SPEAKER_00]: We are the largest.

        26:29.208 –> 26:33.609

        [SPEAKER_00]: And of course, we therefore have created some really interesting relationships,

        26:37.370 –> 26:52.542

        [SPEAKER_00]: the mainstream rag merchants who are based here in the UK and the wholesale traders who are based in Akra, and some of these relationships are 30 or 40 years old, so they have traded on the productsets that we send and they ask for.

        26:53.162 –> 26:58.026

        [SPEAKER_00]: and what’s really interesting, Chloe, is that those wholesale traders come to the UK.

        26:58.446 –> 27:01.308

        [SPEAKER_00]: They come to the sorting locations in the UK.

        27:01.768 –> 27:04.751

        [SPEAKER_00]: They advise what product they’re looking for.

        27:05.031 –> 27:12.917

        [SPEAKER_00]: They will say, we don’t want white t-shirts because white t-shirts are over here just don’t sell or we don’t want this colour or we don’t want this style or don’t.

        27:14.157 –> 27:20.042

        [SPEAKER_00]: And you start to think, you know, common sense, you’d never send proper jackets or winterwear into an African nation,

        27:20.442 –> 27:21.203

        [SPEAKER_00]: just doesn’t work.

        27:21.243 –> 27:32.212

        [SPEAKER_00]: So they’re quite specific on what they want, the quantity, the style and what you talk to people in the marketplace as I did and you ask the question, what is it?

        27:32.713 –> 27:34.815

        [SPEAKER_00]: What is it that your customers are looking for?

        27:34.915 –> 27:37.017

        [SPEAKER_00]: What are they buying, what kind of styles?

        27:37.617 –> 27:40.560

        [SPEAKER_00]: You quite simply get told exactly what you’re wearing.

        27:41.260 –> 27:42.881

        [SPEAKER_00]: My customer wants what you’re wearing.

        27:42.961 –> 27:45.742

        [SPEAKER_00]: They want the latest styles, the what the latest fashion.

        27:46.263 –> 27:55.727

        [SPEAKER_00]: And therefore with that rag merchant, you’ve actually got a very quick turn around of where that product is sorted in the UK and is sent to Africa.

        27:55.808 –> 28:05.092

        [SPEAKER_00]: So fashion in terms of trend in terms of what people are wearing has caught up quite quickly across the African nations.

        28:05.633 –> 28:05.853

        [SPEAKER_00]: It’s an

        28:10.655 –> 28:16.377

        [SPEAKER_00]: you’re down to us being in the question, how does that product get to Accra?

        28:17.397 –> 28:26.460

        [SPEAKER_00]: And I was there just a few weeks ago, and I had a bit of a rumoured, and I started looking through items for sale.

        28:27.141 –> 28:34.043

        [SPEAKER_00]: And those items for sale you can find every day, the swing tags and labels

        28:40.805 –> 28:42.546

        [SPEAKER_00]: in Accro in Continental.

        28:43.066 –> 29:01.551

        [SPEAKER_00]: The full brand name, the full price tag, even the charity shops have left their price tags on the items and I came back with some photographs and I sat down with a chart, I said, you’ve got items here that are worth, that are priced at 15 pounds and

        29:08.093 –> 29:15.739

        [SPEAKER_00]: would it simply not have been better to sell that at six pounds or four pounds?

        29:16.480 –> 29:29.490

        [SPEAKER_00]: Discount it before you have to dispose of that product before it was sold to the rag merchant and their responses and this is where I think E-commerce has a real big part still to play in the sector.

        29:29.970 –> 29:31.492

        [SPEAKER_00]: The response was Andy.

        29:32.252 –> 29:42.560

        [SPEAKER_00]: if we suddenly marked everything down by 50% in the shop, we would devalue the offer of what we are selling within our shop.

        29:42.960 –> 29:48.825

        [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone would suddenly think, well, I’m not going to pay 20 pounds for that item, I’m going to pay 10 pounds because I know you’re going to market down.

        29:49.405 –> 29:51.267

        [SPEAKER_00]: So it’s a way of

        29:51.807 –> 30:07.972

        [SPEAKER_00]: of the organisation being able to merchandise a move stuck along if it’s not sold in two weeks then it’s not going to sell you ever rotate it around a neighbouring charity shop if you have one within your organisation or you simply sell it to the rag merchant but the irony is

        30:08.672 –> 30:12.936

        [SPEAKER_00]: that the rag merchant will offer between one pens, five pens.

        30:13.176 –> 30:19.621

        [SPEAKER_00]: If you’re really looking, 10 pens per kilo, and then they’ll do a sortation, and it’ll go to Acre.

        30:19.881 –> 30:24.585

        [SPEAKER_00]: So we are allowing ourselves as a retailer.

        30:25.526 –> 30:40.857

        [SPEAKER_00]: to be defined by what we think our shop will want, and what press their prepare to pay, and we’re merchandising, we’re exiting stock on a fear, rather than saying, okay, what it’s been, it’s been on sale in the shop for two weeks.

        30:41.517 –> 30:59.197

        [SPEAKER_00]: I’ll move it onto Vintage, I’ll move it onto eBay, I’ll move it onto what, I’ll move it onto D-Pop, which ever platform takes you fancy, it’s got to be worth two or three pounds on there before we start sending it into the other side of the world to sell for a few pounds really, or a few pence.

        31:00.158 –> 31:11.483

        [SPEAKER_02]: It’s a kind of a more traditional retail merchandising strategy needed in the charity shops to make to squeeze the money out of these items, going back to our original, what would you do question?

        31:12.223 –> 31:20.887

        [SPEAKER_02]: Because we’ve covered some fascinating, you know, fascinating things that a head of e-commerce needs to think about before they decide what the pre-loved play at their fashion brand is.

        31:21.487 –> 31:23.628

        [SPEAKER_02]: From everything we’ve talked about, it strikes me that

        31:24.863 –> 31:32.746

        [SPEAKER_02]: The best option for a brand and maybe for every body would be if the brand offers a buyback scheme of some sort.

        31:33.586 –> 31:53.093

        [SPEAKER_02]: And then rather than having a second hand section on the website, they have an agreement with A and other charity chain, which then gets the charity chain get that premium clothing that they’re losing to buyback schemes and vintage.

        31:54.339 –> 32:00.501

        [SPEAKER_02]: and the retailer has none of the headache and all of the P.R.G.s, and they’ve done the responsible thing and all the rest of it.

        32:01.341 –> 32:05.242

        [SPEAKER_02]: Am I over-simplifying or is that a pretty good route to go for?

        32:06.062 –> 32:18.085

        [SPEAKER_00]: It’s not a bad route to go for, and the reason why we get stuck on the schematics of of why would be something that we’ve not done before.

        32:18.995 –> 32:21.818

        [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, let’s break this down AI.

        32:22.158 –> 32:29.324

        [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, let’s bring AI into this argument because this is where the game changes completely.

        32:30.185 –> 32:44.077

        [SPEAKER_00]: If I got back to my days at British Heart Foundation, British Heart Foundation would be presented with a range of items and whether you were working on stamps and coins, vinyl, clothing,

        32:45.018 –> 32:54.022

        [SPEAKER_00]: There was a given that as a list at work and inside that organization, you would list so many items, per list per deck.

        32:54.382 –> 33:05.327

        [SPEAKER_00]: Those were the fundamentals almost the the foundations of how the organization worked in what your future investment might look like in terms of creating a much larger e-commerce department.

        33:05.947 –> 33:07.668

        [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let’s bring in AI now.

        33:08.708 –> 33:22.499

        [SPEAKER_00]: Remember, 40 listings per list of per day, AI in some commercial clothing resell operations can do now up to 220 garments per list of per day.

        33:22.919 –> 33:33.047

        [SPEAKER_00]: So if AI is able to give us a huge process and economic uplift.

        33:33.727 –> 33:44.132

        [SPEAKER_00]: could AI play more of a part with a mainstream retail fashion retail that maybe it hasn’t appeared within before.

        33:44.432 –> 33:47.213

        [SPEAKER_00]: We know AI, for example, can measure garments.

        33:47.273 –> 33:57.798

        [SPEAKER_00]: We know, for example, AI can you can stand in front of a camera and you can try on virtually different ranges of shirts and colors and styles.

        33:58.678 –> 34:08.325

        [SPEAKER_00]: And we’ve been using AI to try and reduce the number of returns through R by 3 and I’ll keep the pair that fits.

        34:08.685 –> 34:15.690

        [SPEAKER_00]: So AI in that introduction has made massive, a massive amount of impact.

        34:16.170 –> 34:22.334

        [SPEAKER_00]: However, we haven’t used AI in mainstream retail for retail itself.

        34:22.554 –> 34:22.754

        [SPEAKER_00]: So

        34:23.815 –> 34:30.259

        [SPEAKER_00]: going forward with an extended produced responsibility, data will become king.

        34:30.780 –> 34:44.629

        [SPEAKER_00]: Because data is how the fashion brand retailer will report on what it’s done with a garment, how many they received, where they went, how many of their sold, how many came back, how many were disposed

        34:49.192 –> 35:10.785

        [SPEAKER_00]: Or maybe even a commercial retailer that can match the requirement, the data will be the winner, because the data that will be required will fundamentally form part of the compliance that will be required for extended producer responsibility and maybe in some respect digital product passport as well.

        35:13.654 –> 35:18.422

        [SPEAKER_01]: E-commerce Masterplan is supported by some of the greatest companies in the E-commerce sector.

        35:18.542 –> 35:19.984

        [SPEAKER_01]: Here’s a reminder of who they are.

        35:31.373 –> 35:36.679

        [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I love this section, excuse me, and I’ll list us some really quick ideas for taking our businesses to the next level.

        35:36.879 –> 35:38.481

        [SPEAKER_02]: And are you ready for the top tips?

        35:38.842 –> 35:39.302

        [SPEAKER_00]: Let’s go.

        35:39.322 –> 35:41.064

        [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, the booktop tip.

        35:41.164 –> 35:47.532

        [SPEAKER_02]: If everyone listening to this podcast agreed to take Friday off and read a book to make their business better, which book would you recommend?

        35:48.269 –> 35:48.829

        [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what?

        35:49.529 –> 36:05.735

        [SPEAKER_00]: I would take a break from business on a Friday and I’d read something completely unbusiness related because giving your head that space rather than thinking about work, especially on a Friday.

        36:06.355 –> 36:13.441

        [SPEAKER_00]: So, I think we’re missing, if you’ve seen any of my videos, I’ll try and put some whitt and some humor into what I’m talking about.

        36:13.922 –> 36:28.193

        [SPEAKER_00]: So pick up something that makes your laugh, pick up something that makes you think, don’t pick up something that tells you how to share trade or deal or increase your productivity by another 10 or 15%.

        36:28.274 –> 36:30.595

        [SPEAKER_00]: Save that for the day, job, get a life.

        36:31.777 –> 36:39.884

        [SPEAKER_02]: I have to say, I do now always have a fiction paper back book in the office when I need a little time out.

        36:40.004 –> 36:47.452

        [SPEAKER_02]: I’ll go and sit somewhere else and read that for ten minutes, say yeah, I wholeheartedly approve of that as a as a piece of advice there.

        36:47.992 –> 36:53.337

        [SPEAKER_02]: Traffic top tip, which marketing method do you either price above all others or think doesn’t get the press it deserves?

        36:54.358 –> 37:01.064

        [SPEAKER_00]: Live shopping has been around Chloe as you and I will now for quite some time.

        37:01.305 –> 37:08.992

        [SPEAKER_00]: You live shopping TV, I mean the most famous one is quite clearly QVC and now you’ve got multiple channels of QVC.

        37:09.012 –> 37:10.974

        [SPEAKER_00]: You can buy a lawnmower on channel 1.

        37:10.994 –> 37:13.656

        [SPEAKER_00]: You can buy cosmetics on channel 2.

        37:13.736 –> 37:18.360

        [SPEAKER_00]: So live shopping has without doubt taken off.

        37:20.202 –> 37:33.751

        [SPEAKER_00]: where I’ve been astonished on some of the results that live shopping has produced and it’s not in areas you would have normally associated with with this.

        37:33.791 –> 37:46.139

        [SPEAKER_00]: So some of the smaller kind of boutique organizations have gone out on a bit of a women apprient and thought right we’re going to put someone in front of the camera we’re going to do it a completely unsocial time for them.

        37:47.419 –> 37:58.667

        [SPEAKER_00]: because seven o’clock in the night time is not generally when we’re all at work, but it’s when we’re all watching either something on our phones, scrolling or watching some TV, and they’ve decided to go at it.

        37:58.687 –> 38:08.634

        [SPEAKER_00]: And let me give you one really good example because I was at the charity retail association, national conference in Wales a few days ago.

        38:09.395 –> 38:10.616

        [SPEAKER_00]: And Bernardos,

        38:14.118 –> 38:21.444

        [SPEAKER_00]: gave a talk about how they’ve been experimenting with live shopping and they did that awkward.

        38:21.644 –> 38:23.005

        [SPEAKER_00]: Let’s just jump in and try it.

        38:23.726 –> 38:27.509

        [SPEAKER_00]: They now do three live sessions per week.

        38:28.229 –> 38:29.730

        [SPEAKER_00]: It has been so successful.

        38:29.850 –> 38:32.472

        [SPEAKER_00]: They’re now going to do one per day.

        38:33.473 –> 38:39.716

        [SPEAKER_00]: and moving further forward from that they’re going to do five each day.

        38:40.537 –> 38:47.621

        [SPEAKER_00]: And let me tell you why because this is fascinating in their product mix of of what they receive.

        38:47.821 –> 38:52.683

        [SPEAKER_00]: If you’re kind of a charity retailer, what you’re trying to do is you’re trying to save the best of throng line.

        38:53.224 –> 38:56.685

        [SPEAKER_00]: We’ve got a psychological threshold that when we walk into a charity shop with

        38:59.687 –> 39:17.906

        [SPEAKER_00]: how much, which is an old Yorkshire war cry, and that’s because we assume that you’re a charity and you should have been challenging more than 25 pounds for something, and of course they’re at caveats, so you know everyone writing in the comments, oh I’ve solved something for a hundred pounds, you probably did, but I’m talking in generalistic terms.

        39:18.547 –> 39:34.779

        [SPEAKER_00]: So if you expose it online, you can realize more value for it and sometimes the person who’s bidding for the item online doesn’t realise it’s coming from a chat to yourself, sometimes it can really increase in terms of value, let’s take Pokemon cards, which was the example that was given.

        39:35.299 –> 39:40.423

        [SPEAKER_00]: But Nardos would have sold a pack of Pokemon cards.

        39:40.743 –> 39:41.584

        [SPEAKER_00]: They would have collected

        39:46.067 –> 40:10.547

        [SPEAKER_00]: they’d weigh them, they’d try and cap them up, they’d give some averages and they’d say, here’s a bundle of Pokemon cards, start the bidit, and they may reach 25 pounds, 35 pounds, and the irony of this is that it was one of their biggest returning items as well, but not all the cards returned, quite clearly, some consumers were keeping the best ones and sending

        40:11.588 –> 40:14.050

        [SPEAKER_00]: Now, let’s bring out live shopping.

        40:14.350 –> 40:18.393

        [SPEAKER_00]: Let’s ask the team within Banardos.

        40:18.874 –> 40:21.636

        [SPEAKER_00]: Does anyone know anything about Pokemon cards?

        40:22.477 –> 40:27.320

        [SPEAKER_00]: And the most introvert technical individual at the back room puts their

        40:29.720 –> 40:36.923

        [SPEAKER_00]: And that person suddenly is presenting under their own steam, that’s their desire.

        40:37.463 –> 40:39.064

        [SPEAKER_00]: They know about this product.

        40:39.164 –> 40:54.830

        [SPEAKER_00]: They are inherently interested in this product and now they’re starting to realize real true value because when that collector card comes along, it’s given the airspace, the time, and it reaches the value as to what that product is worth.

        40:55.470 –> 40:56.371

        [SPEAKER_00]: And life,

        40:57.151 –> 41:02.752

        [SPEAKER_00]: compliment, e-com, e-com, compliment, bricks and mortar.

        41:03.333 –> 41:11.254

        [SPEAKER_00]: And if we go back to gosh, my days at John Lewis, when I’m the channel, there’s all the rage, that terminology, I’m the channel.

        41:11.735 –> 41:23.297

        [SPEAKER_00]: This is not anymore, but you’ve essentially got a number of platforms or a number of vehicles or a number of mechanisms where you reach your customer, bricks and mortar, e-com and live.

        41:26.098 –> 41:32.880

        [SPEAKER_00]: I could have just said, live shopping, Chloe, but that’s the reason why live shopping is really starting to gain some traction.

        41:33.941 –> 41:35.441

        [SPEAKER_02]: Love the detail on that, Andy.

        41:35.461 –> 41:37.242

        [SPEAKER_02]: We’ll let you have the super long answer.

        41:37.622 –> 41:40.103

        [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, the next one then is the tall top tip.

        41:40.183 –> 41:44.564

        [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe a collaboration tool, a social media plugin, a phone app, or just a way of working.

        41:44.684 –> 41:49.026

        [SPEAKER_02]: Is there a cool little tool you use that makes you and your team more efficient from day to day?

        41:50.109 –> 41:50.529

        [SPEAKER_00]: phone app.

        41:51.190 –> 41:57.494

        [SPEAKER_00]: It’s going to be found out on the product sets that I’m working on or I’ve got a dare I say this.

        41:57.734 –> 42:10.602

        [SPEAKER_00]: It’s going to be AI and looking at some information as some details that AI throws back because that level of information now really starts to make a difference in that project or that work that you’re delivering.

        42:11.142 –> 42:11.422

        [SPEAKER_02]: Nice.

        42:11.542 –> 42:12.903

        [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, the carbon top tip.

        42:13.243 –> 42:17.046

        [SPEAKER_02]: What’s your favorite way to reduce the carbon footprint of an e-commerce store?

        42:18.125 –> 42:23.006

        [SPEAKER_00]: use the packaging that the item has been sent out to do something else with.

        42:23.287 –> 42:24.147

        [SPEAKER_00]: It’s dead easy.

        42:24.367 –> 42:34.830

        [SPEAKER_00]: Now I’m not saying return the item but I’m saying if that item has another life and a top tip and I’ve seen this in action, post back.

        42:35.330 –> 42:49.262

        [SPEAKER_00]: So even if you’re wanting customers to send product back, as we talked before, in terms of a take-back scheme, if they can use the original packaging that the product came within and they can send that back, then hey, that’s another reuse of that packaging.

        42:49.772 –> 42:50.732

        [SPEAKER_02]: nice like that.

        42:51.152 –> 42:58.815

        [SPEAKER_02]: And before we say goodbye, could you please at the listeners know where they can get in contact with you if they want to chat more about all of this or anything else really?

        42:58.835 –> 42:59.835

        [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

        42:59.935 –> 43:01.936

        [SPEAKER_00]: I’m very easy to find.

        43:02.716 –> 43:07.818

        [SPEAKER_00]: And many people do connect with me over LinkedIn, which is my business networking channel.

        43:08.278 –> 43:09.918

        [SPEAKER_00]: You can drop me a DM on there.

        43:10.078 –> 43:11.599

        [SPEAKER_00]: I do answer everyone.

        43:11.619 –> 43:12.779

        [SPEAKER_00]: So please find me on there.

        43:13.199 –> 43:13.319

        [SPEAKER_00]: And

        43:18.401 –> 43:21.042

        [SPEAKER_00]: and other mainstream channels.

        43:21.703 –> 43:25.384

        [SPEAKER_02]: Love it, just search for Andy Oscliff to get involved with all of that.

        43:25.444 –> 43:34.749

        [SPEAKER_02]: And I know, as you can all tell, Andy’s not so much about all of this, they do send him your questions and push us all further along on the journey.

        43:35.129 –> 43:37.490

        [SPEAKER_02]: Andy, thank you so much for coming on the podcast again.

        43:37.750 –> 43:39.411

        [SPEAKER_02]: It’s always a pleasure catching up with you.

        43:40.031 –> 43:41.792

        [SPEAKER_00]: Fantastic and great to see you again.

        43:41.832 –> 43:43.673

        [SPEAKER_00]: That’s not leaving it so long next time.

        43:50.796 –> 43:56.720

        [SPEAKER_02]: fascinating to hear from Andy there on all the challenges in the pre-loved space at the moment.

        43:56.900 –> 44:09.147

        [SPEAKER_02]: So much opportunity, but making the right decisions about how you handle it, which levers you use, how you process it, how you support others in the space as well.

        44:09.207 –> 44:10.088

        [SPEAKER_02]: I think lots,

        44:10.528 –> 44:14.371

        [SPEAKER_02]: Not necessarily huge answers, they’re plenty for us all to talk about.

        44:14.771 –> 44:21.656

        [SPEAKER_02]: You get your hands on our notes from the episode including those top tips and links to what we mentioned by heading over to ecommercemasterplanned.com.

        44:22.037 –> 44:32.764

        [SPEAKER_02]: You could also use our direct episode short links just put ECMP.info forward slash the number of this episode into the URL bar and you’ll be redirected straight to the right episode page.

        44:33.125 –> 44:35.967

        [SPEAKER_02]: And when you get to the website, please join the Chloe Thomas

        44:37.948 –> 44:44.010

        [SPEAKER_02]: love to keep updating you with all the cool stuff we’ve got going on and other other people have going on to help you build your business.

        44:44.770 –> 44:56.054

        [SPEAKER_02]: If you like this episode then make sure you check out episode 454 which is Andy on the show again this time going in deep into what he was up to when he was working at Oxford.

        44:56.394 –> 44:58.575

        [SPEAKER_02]: So that really builds on what we’ve been talking about today.

        44:59.195 –> 45:09.940

        [SPEAKER_02]: You can also find all our fashion episodes at ECMP.info4-fashion or all our other what would you do’s via ECMP.info4-WWYD.

        45:10.340 –> 45:14.481

        [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for tuning into this and every episode of the Ecommerce Master Plan podcast.

        45:14.762 –> 45:27.067

        [SPEAKER_02]: I bring you a new interview every week because I want to inspire and help Ecommerce business owners like you to succeed and thrive with your businesses, including encouraging all those consumers and businesses to make more sustainable buying decisions.

        45:28.047 –> 45:33.730

        [SPEAKER_02]: So, if you know someone this show can help, please tell them to listen to the Ecommerce Master Plan podcast.

        45:33.750 –> 45:36.671

        [SPEAKER_02]: I hope you have a great week and don’t forget to keep optimizing.

        46 min
      • eCommerce MasterPlan | 604: How CULT MIA Scaled 5X by Building a Global Luxury Fashion Marketplace

        Holly Daniels is the Head of eCommerce at CULT MIA & a Drapers 30 Under 30 Alumni. CULT MIA is an independent luxury fashion marketplace, showcasing new designers and unique collections, many of which are exclusive on their Shopify website. Founded in 2019 they won Draper’s Best Independent Retailer in 2022 AND 2023 and last year were named in the UK Fast Growth Index – not surprising since in the last couple of years they’ve scaled sales 5 times. 

         

        In this episode, Holly lifts the lid on how CULT MIA scaled 5X while navigating global logistics, international expansion, and the unique challenges of running a luxury fashion marketplace. Expect practical insights on data-driven growth, entering new markets, creating exceptional customer experiences, and using AI where it delivers real business impact. 

         

        Hit PLAY to hear: 

        • How CULT MIA uncovered a hidden Middle East growth opportunity through customer data 
        • The surprising strategy that helped the luxury marketplace scale sales 5X 
        • What most brands get wrong about international expansion and cross-border logistics 
        • Why launching in the right season can matter more than your ad creative 
        • Practical AI use cases that save hours and improve eCommerce operations 
        • Holly Daniels’ framework for testing new markets without risking your entire budget 

          •  

          Key timestamps to dive straight in: 

          [04:22] CULT MIA’s global market reach 

          [08:50] CULT MIA’s brand values and products 

          [12:10] Managing international shipping logistics 

          [13:29] Cross-border operations and sustainability 

          [18:01] Understanding Regional Customer Behavior 

          [20:06] Building trust with new markets 

          [23:07] Using AI for administrative tasks 

          [25:15] Listen to Holly’s Top Tips! 

           

          Full episode notes here: https://ecmp.info/604

          —

          Download our ebook… https://ecmp.info/ebook 500 Tips to Increase Your Profits

          Get all the links and resources we mention and join our email list at https://ecmp.info

          Love the show? Chloe would love your feedback – leave a review here: https://ecmp.info/review or reply to the episode QandA on Spotify.

          Interested in being a Sponsor? go here: https://ecmp.info/sponsor

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          Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

          WEBVTT

          00:00.631 –> 00:04.094

          [SPEAKER_02]: AB testing and that testing cycle is your best friend.

          00:04.634 –> 00:06.996

          [SPEAKER_02]: You don’t have to go all in, you can do small amounts.

          00:07.236 –> 00:16.122

          [SPEAKER_02]: Make a testing budget that’s 90% BAU, 10% testing, and then find a rollout plan that rolls what’s getting hooked back into your main budget, things like that.

          00:16.702 –> 00:18.243

          [SPEAKER_02]: Always be moving and adapting.

          00:18.343 –> 00:19.524

          [SPEAKER_02]: I think that’s the key thing.

          00:19.584 –> 00:23.307

          [SPEAKER_02]: You can’t even trust with a lot of these markets that what you knew a year ago even still works.

          00:26.152 –> 00:28.533

          [SPEAKER_01]: It’s the e-commerce master plan podcast.

          00:29.093 –> 00:33.174

          [SPEAKER_01]: Air to help you solve your marketing problems and grow your e-commerce business.

          00:33.674 –> 00:41.477

          [SPEAKER_01]: Cutting through the hinder to bring you inspiration and advice from the e-commerce sector and beyond here’s your host, Chloe Thomas.

          00:44.790 –> 00:47.251

          [SPEAKER_00]: Hello and welcome, it’s great to have you here.

          00:47.311 –> 00:51.093

          [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for being in play and choosing to listen to one of our inspiring guests.

          00:51.513 –> 00:56.295

          [SPEAKER_00]: Huge thanks to Aleka Carney from Nosto for introducing us to this brilliant guest.

          00:56.496 –> 00:57.496

          [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, Alea.

          00:57.716 –> 00:58.877

          [SPEAKER_00]: We really appreciate it.

          00:59.317 –> 01:02.598

          [SPEAKER_00]: Now in this episode, we are talking luxury fashion.

          01:02.618 –> 01:04.019

          [SPEAKER_00]: We’re talking marketplaces.

          01:04.459 –> 01:08.561

          [SPEAKER_00]: We are talking super complex operations, customs, and tariffs.

          01:09.061 –> 01:09.862

          [SPEAKER_00]: We’re talking

          01:10.442 –> 01:15.284

          [SPEAKER_00]: AI, practical AI tips, and we are talking about expansion into the Middle East.

          01:15.304 –> 01:18.145

          [SPEAKER_00]: There’s a whole lot more we get into, but those are the key things.

          01:18.505 –> 01:24.408

          [SPEAKER_00]: Make sure you listen to the end of the episode so you don’t miss out on my guest top tips and my own take on this episode.

          01:30.460 –> 01:32.561

          [SPEAKER_00]: and now to introduce our special guest.

          01:32.861 –> 01:39.005

          [SPEAKER_00]: Holly Daniels is the head of e-commerce at Colt Meer and a draper’s 30 under 30 alumni.

          01:39.465 –> 01:49.471

          [SPEAKER_00]: Colt Meer is an independent luxury fashion market play showcasing new designers and unique collections, many of which are exclusively to them on their Shopify website.

          01:50.011 –> 01:54.314

          [SPEAKER_00]: Founded in 2019, they won draper’s best independent retailer in both

          01:54.934 –> 02:05.598

          [SPEAKER_00]: 2022 and 2023 and last year were named in the UK fast growth index not surprising since in the last couple of years they’ve scaled sales five times.

          02:05.738 –> 02:06.598

          [SPEAKER_00]: Hello, Holly.

          02:07.178 –> 02:07.899

          [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, how’s it going?

          02:08.719 –> 02:09.419

          [SPEAKER_00]: It’s good.

          02:09.519 –> 02:13.761

          [SPEAKER_00]: Great to have you here and you know, sparing some time whilst you’re busy five-exing growth.

          02:13.941 –> 02:16.262

          [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I’m amazed you have time to do podcasts.

          02:16.602 –> 02:17.862

          [SPEAKER_02]: There’s always a couple of three minutes.

          02:19.863 –> 02:23.004

          [SPEAKER_00]: But how did you get started in e-commerce yourself?

          02:23.972 –> 02:27.854

          [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I’d been working in e-commerce for the little over 10 years now.

          02:27.934 –> 02:30.795

          [SPEAKER_02]: So back in 2013, I think it was.

          02:31.595 –> 02:35.217

          [SPEAKER_02]: I started actually not intentionally.

          02:35.577 –> 02:36.958

          [SPEAKER_02]: I was studying journals at the time.

          02:37.018 –> 02:38.478

          [SPEAKER_02]: I worked in a few fashion stores.

          02:38.638 –> 02:42.680

          [SPEAKER_02]: They needed to help in these e-commerce and online business spaces that were just opening up.

          02:43.180 –> 02:46.002

          [SPEAKER_02]: And I just honestly found that I was really good at it.

          02:46.122 –> 02:48.903

          [SPEAKER_02]: So over the years, I scaled up into content positions.

          02:49.643 –> 03:01.528

          [SPEAKER_02]: operation and positions, quickly scaled into e-commerce management by 2015, I think it was, and it’s sort of been sitting in those in above since then, really working with growth and start at models.

          03:01.568 –> 03:02.769

          [SPEAKER_02]: That’s my bread and butter.

          03:03.249 –> 03:07.811

          [SPEAKER_02]: I love seeing the whole ecosystem, how things flow through from acquisition, all the way to post purchase.

          03:08.351 –> 03:12.773

          [SPEAKER_02]: I think it gives you such a holistic view of the entire business and how to make really good decisions to come forward.

          03:13.433 –> 03:13.773

          [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah,

          03:18.207 –> 03:22.889

          [SPEAKER_00]: as it is of so many of us, and you call us, if you can’t balance the creative and the analytical.

          03:23.470 –> 03:23.830

          [SPEAKER_02]: Totally.

          03:23.850 –> 03:24.450

          [SPEAKER_00]: You’re in trouble.

          03:25.090 –> 03:38.077

          [SPEAKER_00]: Big trouble, and I totally agree with you about being able to see the whole of that purchase journey because for me, the number one way to improve retentionists to recruit the right people in the first place 100%.

          03:38.157 –> 03:43.280

          [SPEAKER_00]: Which if you’ve got separate teams on those, it can be really tricky if you’re not got that whole overview.

          03:44.220 –> 03:51.821

          [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think like communication between e-commerce and marketing and brand partners, whatever it is, is fundamental, especially in the start-up.

          03:52.322 –> 04:02.423

          [SPEAKER_02]: Because nothing works in a silo, you can’t deliver this piece of content through social media or a paid ad, and then not communicate with the e-commerce team about what that learning page is supposed to look like, right?

          04:02.443 –> 04:05.984

          [SPEAKER_02]: You’ve just broken your entire metric and then one move right?

          04:06.604 –> 04:10.345

          [SPEAKER_02]: So I think communication across all those work streams is super important.

          04:11.076 –> 04:18.278

          [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so, so true, but let’s update everyone on who Colt Mia is if they’re not familiar with the business.

          04:19.479 –> 04:21.600

          [SPEAKER_00]: Where in the world are you and where do you sell to?

          04:22.120 –> 04:22.620

          [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, sure.

          04:22.660 –> 04:24.341

          [SPEAKER_02]: So Colt Mia’s based in the UK.

          04:24.861 –> 04:27.702

          [SPEAKER_02]: Our major markets are actually the U.S. and the Middle East.

          04:28.282 –> 04:31.343

          [SPEAKER_02]: We do ship to the UK and the EU as well.

          04:32.163 –> 04:33.144

          [SPEAKER_02]: But those are our main ones.

          04:33.164 –> 04:33.844

          [SPEAKER_02]: We actually

          04:34.744 –> 04:38.647

          [SPEAKER_02]: have about 240 different designers currently in the website.

          04:39.127 –> 04:51.336

          [SPEAKER_02]: They’re all independent designers, our team, scowers and sources the earth for different designers from Columbia, Vietnam, Turkey, Georgia, really working fashion councils there, independent designers.

          04:51.876 –> 04:51.997

          [SPEAKER_02]: And

          04:52.757 –> 04:57.039

          [SPEAKER_02]: kind of trying to figure out what is that next big designer and how can we get to them first.

          04:57.099 –> 05:05.643

          [SPEAKER_02]: So our whole kind of concept we go for is, you know, when you go to a wedding and you see someone wearing a beautiful dress and you go, what did you find that and they always seem to find the brands before you do?

          05:06.163 –> 05:08.865

          [SPEAKER_02]: Our whole ethos is that we find those brands and we deliver them to you.

          05:09.525 –> 05:13.327

          [SPEAKER_02]: And we also create a scaling solution for those brands as well, which is our second

          05:14.307 –> 05:14.887

          [SPEAKER_02]: parts of it.

          05:14.907 –> 05:24.173

          [SPEAKER_02]: So some of these brands are small enough that they don’t have access to things like operational systems or shipping rates that we can get to ship globally.

          05:24.233 –> 05:28.436

          [SPEAKER_02]: So we give them a way to raise their business in an integral space.

          05:29.636 –> 05:33.619

          [SPEAKER_00]: I saw on the site a lot of the products are made to order.

          05:34.303 –> 05:41.847

          [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I guess when you’re working with those tiny designers, they can’t afford to have one of every one of this dress ready to go in every size.

          05:42.508 –> 05:49.552

          [SPEAKER_00]: So, but that must add a huge amount of complexity to customer services to conversion rate and to the outside of it.

          05:49.960 –> 05:50.701

          [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, totally.

          05:50.781 –> 05:57.187

          [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the two problem that you have is one, it makes it easier for these smaller independent designers to say, this is low risk.

          05:57.207 –> 06:01.471

          [SPEAKER_02]: We’re not asking you to do a big wholesale order with a big platform that you may or may not sell.

          06:01.531 –> 06:03.633

          [SPEAKER_02]: What if that order gets canceled?

          06:03.753 –> 06:10.639

          [SPEAKER_02]: What if, you know, suddenly that big business goes under and they can’t fulfill that wholesale order that you suddenly have 300 pieces for, right?

          06:11.340 –> 06:12.721

          [SPEAKER_02]: So we take the risk off them as well.

          06:12.761 –> 06:17.965

          [SPEAKER_02]: We say when you get an order and we’ll bring it to, but the other side of it as well is from sustainability angle.

          06:18.305 –> 06:19.846

          [SPEAKER_02]: They’re not overproducing anything.

          06:19.926 –> 06:22.968

          [SPEAKER_02]: We’re not stuck with dead stock, which is great for the environment.

          06:23.048 –> 06:24.169

          [SPEAKER_02]: Also great for us as a brand.

          06:24.189 –> 06:27.652

          [SPEAKER_02]: We’re not trying to hawk something that we have too many of as well.

          06:27.732 –> 06:32.695

          [SPEAKER_02]: So it kind of works for all all three, but you’re right from a conversion rate aspect.

          06:33.236 –> 06:34.597

          [SPEAKER_02]: It does have more consideration.

          06:35.097 –> 06:38.319

          [SPEAKER_02]: We’re very lucky that the clientele that we’ve bought into the business.

          06:39.420 –> 06:46.405

          [SPEAKER_02]: seamless sensitive to it, which is great and I think that comes from really good brand positioning and marketing and also just finding the right customers.

          06:47.125 –> 06:51.108

          [SPEAKER_02]: But some of these items can take anywhere from seven days to four weeks.

          06:51.749 –> 06:58.894

          [SPEAKER_02]: And so making sure you really have a really good post purchase journey in there as well to make sure that there’s not that time in between that says we took your money.

          07:00.074 –> 07:00.595

          [SPEAKER_02]: See you later.

          07:01.635 –> 07:06.839

          [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it’s making sure, like we all know, that the biggest killer of customers is fear of time.

          07:07.380 –> 07:11.283

          [SPEAKER_02]: Not communicating with them, making sure that they know this is in the Italian.

          07:11.703 –> 07:13.264

          [SPEAKER_02]: This is getting its final stitches.

          07:13.985 –> 07:17.908

          [SPEAKER_02]: This is just gone through Turkish customs and now it’s coming to you and winging its way.

          07:18.348 –> 07:20.310

          [SPEAKER_02]: That whole process is really, really important to us.

          07:20.370 –> 07:22.832

          [SPEAKER_02]: But it does make up a considerable amount of our stock.

          07:22.852 –> 07:26.034

          [SPEAKER_02]: I think it’s about 42% of brands are older men lead.

          07:26.574 –> 07:29.737

          [SPEAKER_02]: So, they’re either made to order or a pre-order space.

          07:30.748 –> 07:36.794

          [SPEAKER_00]: But it just has so many benefits on every front apart from immediate customer satisfaction about it.

          07:36.814 –> 07:47.346

          [SPEAKER_00]: But like you said, if you get that post purchase journey right, then there’s so much more excited to open the parcel and so much more into the product when it arrives than they would have been if it arrived next day.

          07:47.946 –> 07:48.587

          [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, definitely.

          07:48.627 –> 07:56.774

          [SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, there’s definitely some CRO in front of that as well, which is making sure that’s super clear before purchase, making sure that we’re getting the right measurements.

          07:56.834 –> 08:02.460

          [SPEAKER_02]: Like, if you’re ordering this and it’s going to take four weeks, you obviously don’t want to get it realize it’s the wrong size and then have to send it back.

          08:02.480 –> 08:04.421

          [SPEAKER_02]: And with another four weeks for another one, right?

          08:05.062 –> 08:07.965

          [SPEAKER_02]: So there’s a lot of pre-sale work that goes on there as well.

          08:08.915 –> 08:14.716

          [SPEAKER_00]: And we’re kind of, we’re scurting around the product, but let’s get really clear on what the product is.

          08:14.796 –> 08:17.337

          [SPEAKER_00]: It’s women’s fashion in some kind of things.

          08:18.177 –> 08:24.618

          [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, I mean, our number one category is always event where it’s a really big moment for us.

          08:25.178 –> 08:30.760

          [SPEAKER_02]: We have some beautiful designers, especially at a Vietnam, some really gorgeous gown designers like 216, IHF.

          08:33.160 –> 08:35.521

          [SPEAKER_02]: actually could sure have be clothing, beautiful brands.

          08:35.561 –> 08:38.802

          [SPEAKER_02]: If you haven’t heard of them, please feel free to come have a take a look at them.

          08:38.822 –> 08:42.704

          [SPEAKER_02]: They’re really, really stunning designs and some brands from India as well.

          08:42.724 –> 08:45.765

          [SPEAKER_02]: So, Debbie by Gabriella is also a really nice formal wear brand.

          08:45.785 –> 08:46.425

          [SPEAKER_02]: We have as well.

          08:47.226 –> 08:48.426

          [SPEAKER_02]: Really good wedding guest as well.

          08:48.626 –> 08:50.107

          [SPEAKER_02]: If anyone’s looking to go to weddings.

          08:50.907 –> 09:03.836

          [SPEAKER_02]: But that’s our bread and butter, but we do also have a plethora of somewhere event where we do beautiful accessories and shoes, and shoes fabulous as a beautiful belly flat brand, which is being gorgeous.

          09:04.476 –> 09:09.479

          [SPEAKER_02]: And bags we have beautiful ones that come from Lebanon on our hand stitch, like Sarah’s bag.

          09:10.100 –> 09:13.322

          [SPEAKER_02]: It’s also one of the greatest things I love about working at Colt Meera as well as

          09:15.143 –> 09:19.807

          [SPEAKER_02]: find are also essentially need to fit into one of our values in some ways.

          09:19.827 –> 09:30.376

          [SPEAKER_02]: So we have four values for the site, which is called local code called eco, cold conscious, and cold power, and essentially means it in some way they are socially conscious, sustainable,

          09:30.736 –> 09:35.960

          [SPEAKER_02]: they empower minorities or they do some kind of heritage practice that they preserve within their industry.

          09:36.581 –> 09:41.765

          [SPEAKER_02]: And so it’s really interesting to see the stories about the least brands and how they weave this into their work.

          09:42.426 –> 09:50.632

          [SPEAKER_02]: I mean Sarah’s bag is one of them where they only hire ex female convicts to beat the bags to make sure they have a way to get back into the work force as well.

          09:51.052 –> 09:52.774

          [SPEAKER_02]: But I think it’s like a really cool initiative.

          09:53.548 –> 10:13.835

          [SPEAKER_00]: And it’s all kind of piles on top of each other in terms of how you get the customers bought and to become advocates and fans of Coltmea, because there’s the exclusivity, there’s the no one else has got this, there’s the sustainability, there’s the, I’ve got a wait for it to arrive, which can be super exciting when it’s pivoted the right way.

          10:14.676 –> 10:18.977

          [SPEAKER_00]: You must have a really, really passionate customer base.

          10:21.438 –> 10:23.219

          [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, very passionate customer.

          10:23.380 –> 10:24.861

          [SPEAKER_02]: Very passionate team as well.

          10:25.461 –> 10:32.166

          [SPEAKER_02]: I think that when you have teams who are passionate about the values that they’re working towards as well, the output so is better.

          10:32.487 –> 10:32.867

          [SPEAKER_02]: Be right.

          10:32.887 –> 10:38.812

          [SPEAKER_02]: The customers we have the community within Coltonier there, they’re very gung-ho about the designers they love as well.

          10:39.212 –> 10:43.495

          [SPEAKER_02]: They can be very devoted to a designer they find wants them there and that becomes their favorite one.

          10:43.515 –> 10:45.437

          [SPEAKER_02]: They come back and buy it again and again and again.

          10:46.268 –> 10:48.709

          [SPEAKER_00]: And you’ll roll as head of e-commerce.

          10:48.769 –> 10:51.290

          [SPEAKER_00]: What does that encompass a notting compass?

          10:51.330 –> 10:52.350

          [SPEAKER_00]: Where are your lines?

          10:53.111 –> 10:54.431

          [SPEAKER_02]: This is a very good question.

          10:56.852 –> 11:00.994

          [SPEAKER_02]: I think most e-commerce people, that’s a blurry question sometimes as well.

          11:01.614 –> 11:07.936

          [SPEAKER_02]: But technically speaking, so I run across our paid media, e-commerce and operations teams.

          11:08.056 –> 11:14.139

          [SPEAKER_02]: So I essentially, like we talked about before, make sure that funnels all the way from how did you find us into,

          11:15.039 –> 11:16.743

          [SPEAKER_02]: is that sale nice and easy for you?

          11:17.324 –> 11:20.069

          [SPEAKER_02]: To the post of, did you receive it easily?

          11:20.109 –> 11:21.552

          [SPEAKER_02]: Was the customer service good?

          11:21.792 –> 11:23.536

          [SPEAKER_02]: Did you meet need to make a return if so?

          11:23.556 –> 11:24.999

          [SPEAKER_02]: Was that nice and smooth for you as well?

          11:26.023 –> 11:30.786

          [SPEAKER_00]: Now, we’ve talked in the intro about how the business is five extra in the last couple of years.

          11:30.846 –> 11:46.857

          [SPEAKER_00]: Yours on the fast growth list, that’s complicated enough when you’re selling product, you’re designing yourself to keep stuff in stock, to get the marketing in line, to fulfill everything, and keep the ops running.

          11:47.557 –> 11:48.398

          [SPEAKER_00]: When you’re doing,

          11:49.138 –> 11:56.483

          [SPEAKER_00]: It’s a market place, it’s also a drop shape and you’re discovering all these, there’s quite a lot of merchandising and buying going on in the mix as well.

          11:57.063 –> 12:02.847

          [SPEAKER_00]: And then it’s globally sourced and globally distributed.

          12:03.728 –> 12:09.952

          [SPEAKER_00]: I’m guessing there was some level of complex, there’s almost the most complex thing to enable that growth is what happens on the back end.

          12:10.592 –> 12:11.052

          [SPEAKER_02]: Totally.

          12:11.413 –> 12:16.316

          [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I talk about this a lot in my day-to-day, previous before working at Colt Me, I’ve only worked in.

          12:17.137 –> 12:22.040

          [SPEAKER_02]: Easy B2C models where we have the warehouse, there’s a stock, I said it out here, it comes back.

          12:22.580 –> 12:26.863

          [SPEAKER_02]: It’s usually mostly domestic, or you’re doing a little bit of international, that’s pretty much it.

          12:27.604 –> 12:37.671

          [SPEAKER_02]: We’re doing mostly international, mostly third-party, so it’s usually parcels going from places like Vietnam to Saudi, or it’s going from Turkey to the U.S.,

          12:39.572 –> 12:46.281

          [SPEAKER_02]: lots of layers of complexity to that, um, for anybody who’s ever worked in that kind of operational side, there’s lots of customs you’ve got to figure out.

          12:46.861 –> 12:51.487

          [SPEAKER_02]: We’ve also had a very big year when it comes to customs and tariffs, especially for the US.

          12:52.088 –> 12:54.911

          [SPEAKER_02]: I know more about tariffs now than I ever wanted to do my entire life.

          12:55.432 –> 12:55.632

          [SPEAKER_02]: Um,

          12:56.893 –> 12:57.954

          [SPEAKER_02]: But you make it work, right?

          12:58.655 –> 13:00.256

          [SPEAKER_02]: It’s very complex as a solution.

          13:00.756 –> 13:08.821

          [SPEAKER_02]: You have to think about who’s going to be the MLR, so the merchant of record across all these different regions, who’s responsible for the tax, and how does that customs paperwork come through?

          13:09.381 –> 13:14.205

          [SPEAKER_02]: We’re selling it as cult mere, but you’re selling it as the designer from that country and need it for tax purposes.

          13:14.265 –> 13:17.487

          [SPEAKER_02]: So should those commercial invoices even say cult mere, or should they say?

          13:19.588 –> 13:37.041

          [SPEAKER_02]: It’s a highly complex scenario and that as we’ve grown we’ve had to be proactive and reactive because we’ve reached challenges that we, I didn’t even know you could encounter, it wasn’t even my bread and butter to work in this like very cross border operational sense and wasn’t anybody’s in our team.

          13:38.102 –> 13:41.063

          [SPEAKER_02]: We were really lucky to have consultant help from a time to time.

          13:41.103 –> 13:52.966

          [SPEAKER_02]: We have a great consultant working with us right now actually Keith DiPri who is amazing and really looking at these places and really learning from others who have worked in these big market places spaces is your best source of knowledge.

          13:53.346 –> 13:56.467

          [SPEAKER_02]: We were talking to people who had worked at far fetch and how they worked across all these.

          13:57.087 –> 14:02.632

          [SPEAKER_02]: the party border situations, and anyone else had worked in those situations had been really helpful for us.

          14:03.252 –> 14:13.321

          [SPEAKER_02]: But as you scale there as well, and you’re scaling as a sustainable business, you have to make sure there’s operation as a sustainable inefficiency, but also generally sustainable as well.

          14:13.381 –> 14:22.128

          [SPEAKER_02]: So we’ve had programs and people come into evaluate all our carbon, for example, and we became positive luxury certified, which is the

          14:23.189 –> 14:39.002

          [SPEAKER_02]: the the mark of a a does a luxury business for sustainability and through that we had to check every single one of our designers down to what threads do they use and where they get those threads and how are they died and are they sustainable in any way.

          14:39.362 –> 14:44.183

          [SPEAKER_02]: So you kind of have so many complex layers to it, but you have to think about how it goes across border too.

          14:44.263 –> 14:48.264

          [SPEAKER_02]: So is there a way that you can consolidate shipments so that it’s not making two flights?

          14:48.704 –> 14:55.966

          [SPEAKER_02]: Is there a way that you can make sure that the packaging is small enough and sustainable enough to make sure that that’s nice and efficient too as well?

          14:56.726 –> 15:05.029

          [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of complex layers that I think I could go on for forever and it’s been a lot of problem solving over the years, but I’m very glad to say it’s

          15:06.849 –> 15:09.610

          [SPEAKER_02]: Great, some print plays right now, but it’s, yeah, you’re right.

          15:09.650 –> 15:13.731

          [SPEAKER_02]: It’s a very complicated business models in some ways, and a very easy one and others.

          15:14.372 –> 15:23.695

          [SPEAKER_00]: But when it comes to the, I think the physical logistics is relatively straightforward for the layman to get their head around, you know.

          15:23.995 –> 15:29.117

          [SPEAKER_00]: But it’s that it’s when you come into the, the tax and the legals and the customs.

          15:30.057 –> 15:39.700

          [SPEAKER_00]: all of that bit then is the point that there’s a few points in e-commerce where in my opinion you’re a muppet if you don’t immediately reach for the expert.

          15:40.140 –> 15:45.422

          [SPEAKER_00]: You know there’s a lot of places where you can stumble through yourselves but that has to be a place where you’ve just got to go.

          15:45.862 –> 15:54.705

          [SPEAKER_00]: I need someone who understands the language because the wordings weird enough and then who can point out like how many of us would stumble through that without realizing that

          15:55.405 –> 15:59.886

          [SPEAKER_00]: The legal entity that you put on the paperwork is going to have massive ramifications.

          16:00.346 –> 16:03.906

          [SPEAKER_02]: 100% and I don’t think enough people ask for help.

          16:04.507 –> 16:07.607

          [SPEAKER_02]: I think that is such like ask subject matter experts.

          16:08.067 –> 16:22.310

          [SPEAKER_02]: It’s a biggest thing I’ve told people in teams that I’ve built over the years, which range from like five people to 20 and I, rocking horizontal to other departments is so many people I’ve seen over the years try to act like, well, and I want to do it this time, like,

          16:24.190 –> 16:25.651

          [SPEAKER_02]: you hired them to know more than you.

          16:26.172 –> 16:28.133

          [SPEAKER_02]: If you knew the same as them, you wouldn’t have hired them.

          16:28.413 –> 16:29.634

          [SPEAKER_02]: So let them lead.

          16:30.215 –> 16:33.537

          [SPEAKER_02]: And I want to hear from them too, because this isn’t my air of expertise.

          16:33.637 –> 16:36.920

          [SPEAKER_02]: I’m happy to say I would like to hear their opinion and get some help on that.

          16:36.940 –> 16:39.882

          [SPEAKER_02]: And I don’t think enough people do that, especially across fashion industries.

          16:40.603 –> 16:47.410

          [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it can be, it can be so limiting if you’re not going, you know, if you’re trying to work that yourself because you’ll make mistakes and it will take longer.

          16:47.711 –> 16:57.842

          [SPEAKER_00]: And when you’ve got parcels going all over the place, all over the world, you know, you can’t every day you’re making more errors if you’re not fixing that quickly.

          16:58.250 –> 17:13.167

          [SPEAKER_02]: You want to move quickly, yeah, you don’t want to let that fall into the backlog, which is why I’m, we’re very lucky to have had some consultant helps across the year in these big subject matter experts that I previously had no knowledge of all at all.

          17:13.988 –> 17:20.271

          [SPEAKER_00]: And you mentioned that you’re really big as a company in both the middle and middle east, even in the US.

          17:20.711 –> 17:26.573

          [SPEAKER_00]: Was that always the plan in the business, or was it we found a hot spring of customers and we’re gonna go and chase it?

          17:26.873 –> 17:27.774

          [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly right, yeah.

          17:28.314 –> 17:34.176

          [SPEAKER_02]: So originally, when I started in 2022, the major markets were the UK and the US.

          17:34.576 –> 17:35.937

          [SPEAKER_02]: US was always doing really well.

          17:36.357 –> 17:38.138

          [SPEAKER_02]: There was a nice burgeoning market for it there.

          17:38.898 –> 17:50.664

          [SPEAKER_02]: UK was a little bit slower, but still a pretty good market at the time, and then from that, I mean, one of the biggest things that I think everyone can take from is, daughter is king.

          17:50.784 –> 18:04.571

          [SPEAKER_02]: Find the daughter and really take a close look at it because what we found out of seeing these some of these UK addresses, though, is that a lot of the billing addresses were actually based in the Middle East somewhere, and we realized, okay, that’s interesting, they clearly have some sort of crossover from here.

          18:05.271 –> 18:15.340

          [SPEAKER_02]: We engage with a lot of subject matter experts in certain regions found out they’d do a lot of their traveling across borders, especially through summer and to the EU and the UK.

          18:15.400 –> 18:20.164

          [SPEAKER_02]: So actually these customers we thought we had from UK were mostly from the Middle East.

          18:20.885 –> 18:23.026

          [SPEAKER_02]: But it came with its ups and downs as well.

          18:23.046 –> 18:25.428

          [SPEAKER_02]: We first tried paid marketing from that.

          18:26.209 –> 18:30.412

          [SPEAKER_02]: to pull them in and nothing stick, and we couldn’t really figure out why.

          18:31.173 –> 18:41.281

          [SPEAKER_02]: So pull it back, try to regroup, and then just realize we were again completely in the wrong season for them, because like we just found out, they’re not in the middle east through summer.

          18:41.401 –> 18:42.281

          [SPEAKER_02]: They’re they’re traveling.

          18:42.322 –> 18:43.683

          [SPEAKER_02]: Why are we sending paid ads there?

          18:44.343 –> 18:49.468

          [SPEAKER_02]: when they were not around yet and maybe they would have shut in summer if they had more brand trust with us, right?

          18:49.888 –> 18:53.232

          [SPEAKER_02]: But they hadn’t been introduced as little and we’re hitting them when they’re not even there.

          18:53.952 –> 19:04.042

          [SPEAKER_02]: So we pulled it back up and went to and suddenly like same ads, same audience groups, everything like that changed the creative to more of a win to stuff, and it just took off.

          19:04.983 –> 19:07.705

          [SPEAKER_02]: We realized what they really loved was all that evening,

          19:09.447 –> 19:21.193

          [SPEAKER_02]: They have so many formal events they were in that region as well and then we sort of took it up from there, but yeah, it’s I think listening to the data and I also think not being afraid to stop and regroup is also important as well.

          19:22.114 –> 19:34.023

          [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think so, I’m really kind of surprised and in awe of the fact you worked out, it was the wrong time of year, because I ran as the audience probably already know this, but I ran an ads agency for 10 years.

          19:34.463 –> 19:41.308

          [SPEAKER_00]: And I don’t think we ever, ever turn round to client and said, it’s the wrong time of year, we’ve worked out now, it’s the wrong time of year for this.

          19:41.568 –> 19:44.971

          [SPEAKER_00]: Let’s pause until winter, until summer, and we’ll try again.

          19:45.291 –> 19:47.453

          [SPEAKER_00]: So it takes some serious,

          19:48.113 –> 20:05.567

          [SPEAKER_00]: sanity and cleverness to go at a hold on a minute it’s the wrong time of year let’s pause and we’ll retry rather than thinking the creatives are on the targetings are on the platforms wrong and you could have so easily missed that opportunity without looking at the data talking to the experts and really getting to grips with it all.

          20:06.147 –> 20:15.869

          [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I think that we had, we had the safety net of already knowing that the US is doing relevant, wasn’t like, by pulling back on this region, we’re losing a whole gap of sales, we already had.

          20:16.149 –> 20:21.871

          [SPEAKER_02]: We didn’t have them yet, so we had the time to settle back and think, okay, what have we done wrong?

          20:22.031 –> 20:22.591

          [SPEAKER_02]: What’s right?

          20:23.071 –> 20:27.292

          [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, like I said, talking to subject matter experts in the region, that was one of the first things we learned.

          20:27.832 –> 20:31.793

          [SPEAKER_02]: Which is so interesting now, because now, years and years later,

          20:32.613 –> 20:41.538

          [SPEAKER_02]: we market to the more you’re around and we have the same impacts, but we need to get them to trust us with a really easy in for them, which is I’m already at home.

          20:41.778 –> 20:42.499

          [SPEAKER_02]: I need a gown.

          20:42.819 –> 20:48.142

          [SPEAKER_02]: Our whole thing is that we make very specialty gowns that no one else had, which was had a high affinity with them.

          20:48.822 –> 20:52.164

          [SPEAKER_02]: And then from there from the next summer we’re like, great, you know our gowns are good.

          20:52.985 –> 20:55.546

          [SPEAKER_02]: Do you need dresses for your summer traveling?

          20:55.666 –> 20:57.447

          [SPEAKER_02]: We have some extra stuff that we can bring you back

          20:59.695 –> 21:14.317

          [SPEAKER_00]: It makes so, so much sense that that, you know, to get the, the launch needed to be at the perfect time of year, when they’re on the ground in the Middle East with all the events going on with the time to see the ads game decay.

          21:14.617 –> 21:20.502

          [SPEAKER_00]: again on the platform, they’re not suddenly somewhere else where they’re not going to see the ad, so it makes so much sense.

          21:20.882 –> 21:35.494

          [SPEAKER_00]: Any other advice you give anyone, because I know you certainly hear in the UK, there’s lots of talk about expansion into the Middle East, so any other tips you can give to save anyone from making an error or to help them accelerate, that you’re willing to share, of course.

          21:36.234 –> 21:40.119

          [SPEAKER_02]: No, I think, honestly, market research is your best friend.

          21:40.599 –> 21:42.642

          [SPEAKER_02]: Don’t go with, in with assumptions about anything.

          21:42.742 –> 21:56.938

          [SPEAKER_02]: I think that’s one of the things that killed us originally and that we pulled out is that we had of these assumptions like, oh, they might like this or I think they like this or even that we should be sending stuff that was super, super conservative to them because we’re like, well, that’s why I think we did.

          21:57.598 –> 22:05.345

          [SPEAKER_02]: market research, talk to subject matter experts in the region, talk to general people if you have any network across there who might shop at similar sites to what you’re marketing, right?

          22:05.926 –> 22:13.472

          [SPEAKER_02]: And we learn from that some really key moments and then it’s just AB testing and that testing cycle is your best friend.

          22:14.013 –> 22:23.000

          [SPEAKER_02]: You don’t have to go all and you can do small amounts, make a testing budget that’s 90% BAU, 10% testing and then find a rollout plan that rolls.

          22:23.961 –> 22:29.205

          [SPEAKER_02]: what’s getting hooked back into your main budget, things like that, always be moving and adapting.

          22:29.305 –> 22:30.486

          [SPEAKER_02]: I think that’s the key thing.

          22:30.546 –> 22:34.269

          [SPEAKER_02]: You can’t even trust with a lot of these markets that what you knew a year ago, even still works.

          22:34.870 –> 22:36.231

          [SPEAKER_02]: They’re always developing.

          22:36.271 –> 22:37.652

          [SPEAKER_02]: They’re always changing.

          22:37.872 –> 22:47.160

          [SPEAKER_02]: Like anything like the UK, like the US, anything else you just make, make sure that you’re setting your foundations well and then constantly prejudesting what you know.

          22:48.252 –> 22:50.513

          [SPEAKER_00]: great advice for any market quite frankly.

          22:50.553 –> 22:50.934

          [SPEAKER_00]: Love that.

          22:50.974 –> 22:51.614

          [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you Holly.

          22:52.574 –> 23:01.879

          [SPEAKER_00]: Now, you had missed it to me before we hit record that you are quite deep in the world of AI and how AI can be used effectively and usefully within the business.

          23:02.220 –> 23:06.502

          [SPEAKER_00]: So how are you, how are you approaching bringing AI into cult mail?

          23:07.270 –> 23:07.670

          [SPEAKER_02]: Totally.

          23:07.850 –> 23:27.223

          [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think my biggest thing that we were talking about before is that you shouldn’t just use AI for AI’s sake, and I think that a lot of the conversations have been had around Creative work, and I think that for us we try to keep most of the creative work in house we’re possible, but I think there’s some key things around Admin, and it can be the most innocuous stuff for us, which could be

          23:28.083 –> 23:36.389

          [SPEAKER_02]: reviewing shipping and tax bills and making sure that we’ve been billed at all the right markers that were supposed to come through and if not going ahead and submitting disputes.

          23:36.989 –> 23:44.654

          [SPEAKER_02]: That’s an innocuous part of the role that no one wants to spend five hours doing right and like we’re talking about is that effort to impact rate ratio.

          23:44.674 –> 23:50.678

          [SPEAKER_02]: So is this AI actually saving you time in the long term and could I be doing better things with my time?

          23:51.038 –> 23:52.519

          [SPEAKER_02]: And that’s an arrow 100%.

          23:52.679 –> 23:54.400

          [SPEAKER_02]: But I also know that that’s really important.

          23:54.420 –> 23:56.422

          [SPEAKER_02]: I could be getting big shipping refunds.

          23:56.502 –> 23:56.762

          [SPEAKER_02]: I could

          23:57.222 –> 23:59.463

          [SPEAKER_02]: be getting taxed or I’m going to different HS code, right?

          24:00.123 –> 24:05.065

          [SPEAKER_02]: Then you have really simple stuff across like we have such a big backlog of products.

          24:05.125 –> 24:08.666

          [SPEAKER_02]: It’s about I think nine thousand live at the moment.

          24:09.367 –> 24:10.687

          [SPEAKER_02]: That’s how does a customer coming in.

          24:10.707 –> 24:14.528

          [SPEAKER_02]: We obviously create curated sections of this is your holiday shop.

          24:16.129 –> 24:17.230

          [SPEAKER_02]: wedding shop, whatnot.

          24:17.790 –> 24:26.874

          [SPEAKER_02]: But as a customer like, how do I find that dress I need to quite quickly, AI is helped us with surfacing and discovery so much through that, which has been really, really helpful.

          24:27.414 –> 24:29.215

          [SPEAKER_02]: There’s a lot across the board to be honest.

          24:29.355 –> 24:34.917

          [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, name a section, it’s something that in some way I’m trying to check to see if AI can help us.

          24:35.618 –> 24:37.759

          [SPEAKER_02]: But again, I think the key thing we came back to right is,

          24:38.539 –> 24:42.542

          [SPEAKER_02]: We’re not just saying we should use AI, I think that’s where a lot of companies fail.

          24:43.063 –> 24:53.231

          [SPEAKER_02]: I think it’s about being pragmatic about, would taking this off my plate or would doing it in this way either create more sales or save me more time.

          24:53.671 –> 24:54.812

          [SPEAKER_02]: So that’s that effort to impact.

          24:57.795 –> 25:02.599

          [SPEAKER_01]: Ecommerce Masterplan is supported by some of the greatest companies in the Ecommerce sector.

          25:02.739 –> 25:04.020

          [SPEAKER_01]: Here’s a reminder of who they are.

          25:10.677 –> 25:12.879

          [SPEAKER_01]: Each time it’s time for the top tips round.

          25:15.442 –> 25:20.648

          [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I love this section because me and I’ll listen some really quick ideas for taking our businesses to the next level.

          25:20.688 –> 25:22.410

          [SPEAKER_00]: Holly, are you ready for the top tips?

          25:23.030 –> 25:23.411

          [SPEAKER_02]: Peffett.

          25:23.911 –> 25:25.233

          [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, the book top tip.

          25:25.353 –> 25:32.361

          [SPEAKER_00]: If everyone listening to this podcast agreed to take Friday off and read a book to make their business better, which book would you recommend?

          25:33.259 –> 25:37.441

          [SPEAKER_02]: I would say inspired by Muddy Kagan, Kagan Cagan.

          25:37.941 –> 25:43.084

          [SPEAKER_02]: It’s actually a product management book, but I think it has a lot of crossover to especially e-cumb departments as well.

          25:43.104 –> 25:48.966

          [SPEAKER_02]: I think he does some really interesting chapters about focusing on your staff as missionary versus mercenaries as well.

          25:49.026 –> 25:57.390

          [SPEAKER_02]: So essentially having them just take the books and do the task or be actually invested in what they’re doing and wanting to repel things further.

          25:58.690 –> 26:00.791

          [SPEAKER_00]: Ooh, that’s a tough one to get right.

          26:01.191 –> 26:02.852

          [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, um, interesting.

          26:03.213 –> 26:06.054

          [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, the track is well by our product manager there, sorry.

          26:06.334 –> 26:08.075

          [SPEAKER_02]: Me or I think it’s a big shout out to her.

          26:08.375 –> 26:09.476

          [SPEAKER_02]: She’s the one who got me into that book.

          26:10.312 –> 26:10.773

          [SPEAKER_00]: Excellent.

          26:10.813 –> 26:16.738

          [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, traffic top tip, which marketing method do you either prize above all others or think doesn’t get the press it deserves?

          26:17.558 –> 26:25.625

          [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, traffic and marketing, I’m all about testing cycles, testing, AB testing, pressure test, everything, nothing should ever say the same.

          26:26.486 –> 26:28.067

          [SPEAKER_02]: You should be constantly cycling out.

          26:29.239 –> 26:31.782

          [SPEAKER_00]: So true, especially in these ever-competitive times.

          26:32.323 –> 26:33.004

          [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, cannot.

          26:33.204 –> 26:35.427

          [SPEAKER_00]: You cannot, certain, forget.

          26:35.607 –> 26:42.736

          [SPEAKER_02]: No, I wouldn’t trust the stuff I know in 2022, but now, I think there’s the world as a complete different place every few months.

          26:43.877 –> 26:44.138

          [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

          26:44.858 –> 26:54.120

          [SPEAKER_00]: The talk tip, maybe a collaboration tool, a social media plug-in, a phone-up, or just a way of working is there a call little tool you use that makes you and your team more efficient from day to day.

          26:55.080 –> 27:00.002

          [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we could say Claudia, I’m a big, Claude co-work person.

          27:00.542 –> 27:09.624

          [SPEAKER_02]: It’s connected to my everything, but I’m also, I love fixer fixes also an AI meeting recorder, email organizer.

          27:14.425 –> 27:14.636

          [UNKNOWN]: Thank you.

          27:15.072 –> 27:16.573

          [SPEAKER_00]: nice to check out.

          27:16.593 –> 27:21.816

          [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that’s where everyone’s already having a look at Claude, but I’ve been not touching that.

          27:21.876 –> 27:27.199

          [SPEAKER_00]: The carbon top tip, what’s your favorite way to reduce the carbon footprint of an e-commerce store?

          27:27.860 –> 27:41.028

          [SPEAKER_02]: Who, I think one of the best things for us is, well, not so much a tip, but what we figured out is what books now, what works at scale, so shipping and packaging was a really big thing for us.

          27:41.608 –> 27:42.549

          [SPEAKER_02]: And when it comes down to the

          27:44.670 –> 27:56.508

          [SPEAKER_02]: how big that is and how much packaging doesn’t need five layers of things that go inside that or can I have one really big study mailabag that actually protects that properly and I think about thinking that the waste there was really big for us.

          27:57.274 –> 28:01.536

          [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sometimes it’s not about changing from one type of thing to another.

          28:01.576 –> 28:04.878

          [SPEAKER_00]: It’s about getting, actually, do we need minimizing the amount?

          28:05.238 –> 28:06.259

          [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, totally.

          28:06.279 –> 28:11.762

          [SPEAKER_00]: To your paper and a plastic bag and a box under this and the other, yeah.

          28:11.822 –> 28:18.946

          [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and five tags that are attached to the dress and another strap over here, just minimizing anything that can’t go straight on your body.

          28:21.171 –> 28:22.132

          [SPEAKER_00]: excellent advice.

          28:22.512 –> 28:24.693

          [SPEAKER_00]: As it’s been throughout, Holly, thank you so much.

          28:24.733 –> 28:29.917

          [SPEAKER_00]: Before we say goodbye, could you please let the listeners know where they can find you and your business on the web and social media?

          28:30.537 –> 28:31.017

          [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, sure.

          28:31.057 –> 28:34.059

          [SPEAKER_02]: You can find us at copmea.com or at copmea.

          28:34.820 –> 28:36.081

          [SPEAKER_00]: Simple as that, everyone.

          28:36.141 –> 28:38.742

          [SPEAKER_00]: Holly, thank you so much for being on the podcast.

          28:38.842 –> 28:44.226

          [SPEAKER_00]: It’s been great chatting with you and learning about what you’ve been up to and I wish you all the best for the rest of 26.

          28:45.086 –> 28:45.987

          [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much, you too.

          28:51.958 –> 29:02.880

          [SPEAKER_00]: lots of great tips and advice from Holly, I think for me, it was kind of the big takeaway for me is the clarity of her approach to things.

          29:03.441 –> 29:14.603

          [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it’s like let’s find, let’s look at the data, let’s find the thing which actually needs improving, whether it’s in logistics, whether it’s in expansion into the Middle East, whether it’s

          29:15.283 –> 29:19.786

          [SPEAKER_00]: in packaging or AI, you know, whatever bit it is that needs improving.

          29:19.806 –> 29:28.211

          [SPEAKER_00]: Let’s find the right way to do that, including finding the right person on the team, finding the right at Source Dex, but finding the right piece of AI or automation.

          29:28.231 –> 29:31.793

          [SPEAKER_00]: So I think it’s a serious clarity going on there.

          29:31.813 –> 29:33.994

          [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, all the Shishishishishishick going on there.

          29:34.234 –> 29:40.858

          [SPEAKER_00]: Serious clarity and you can see why she’s the sort of person you want on your team if you are looking to five X in a couple of years.

          29:42.159 –> 29:45.341

          [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so what else can you get from us?

          29:45.461 –> 29:54.907

          [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you can get your hands on our notes about this episode on the full transcript, those top tips and links by heading over to ecommercemasterplanned.com.

          29:54.927 –> 30:00.571

          [SPEAKER_00]: You can also use a direct episode short links that’s ECMP.info for such the number of this episode.

          30:00.591 –> 30:05.614

          [SPEAKER_00]: When you get to the website, please do add yourself to the Climbing Thomas newsletter list.

          30:06.014 –> 30:09.637

          [SPEAKER_00]: So you don’t miss out on any of the cool things we share with you by email.

          30:10.217 –> 30:13.319

          [SPEAKER_00]: And if you like this episode, then I’ve got a recommendation for you.

          30:13.619 –> 30:28.766

          [SPEAKER_00]: Have a listen to episode 262, so we’re going back in time a little bit here, but it’s a super good episode where I’m chatting with another fashion success story, Needle and Thread, which I’m chatting to Mark Liddington from that team all about how Needle and Thread do it.

          30:29.306 –> 30:34.189

          [SPEAKER_00]: And you can find all our fashion episodes via ECMP.info for slash fashion.

          30:34.829 –> 30:40.393

          [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for so much for tuning in to this and every episode that you do of the e-commerce Master Plan podcast.

          30:40.693 –> 30:53.041

          [SPEAKER_00]: I bring you a new one every week as I want to inspire and help e-commerce business owners just like you to succeed and thrive with your businesses, including encouraging businesses and consumers to make more sustainable buying decisions.

          30:53.481 –> 30:58.605

          [SPEAKER_00]: So if you know someone this show can help please tell them to listen to the e-commerce Master Plan podcast.

          30:58.945 –> 31:01.747

          [SPEAKER_00]: Hope you have a great week and don’t forget to keep optimizing.

          31:04.947 –> 31:08.271

          [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for listening to the e-commerce Master Plan podcast.

          31:08.711 –> 31:13.597

          [SPEAKER_01]: Find out more at e-commercemasterplanned.com Slash podcast.

          32 min
        • eCommerce MasterPlan | 603: Best-of-Breed vs Consolidation: Choosing the Right eCommerce Tech Stack with Portmeirion’s Ankit Jadav

          Ankit Jadav is the Global Head of Digital Operations at Portmeirion Group, home to six unique homeware and fragrance brands with a combined 750 years of trading… including Spode, Portmeirion, Royal Worcester, Nambe, Pimpernel and Wax Lyrical. Turnover is now £110,000,000 of which 10% is DTC. 

           

          In this episode, Ankit shares how his team manages five DTC brands with just eight people, why they recently consolidated their tech stack, and what he looks for when evaluating new technology. It’s a masterclass in building an eCommerce operation that is efficient, scalable, and focused on delivering real ROI. 

           

          Hit PLAY to hear: 

          • How one team manages 5 DTC brands with just 8 people 
          • The surprising reason the “best” eCommerce tool can hurt your results 
          • Why consolidating your tech stack could unlock faster growth 
          • How to evaluate new software without wasting budget on shiny objects 
          • The next big tech investment Ankit believes every retailer should consider 
          • Where AI is actually delivering value in eCommerce (and where it’s mostly hype) 

            •  

            Key timestamps to dive straight in: 

            [09:36] Implementing and Scaling eCommerce Projects 

            [12:02] Understanding code for collaboration 

            [16:01] Evaluating tech stack consolidation 

            [21:04] Implementing a Customer Data Platform 

            [22:35] Exploring AI for internal use 

            [26:08] Listen to Ankit’s Top Tips! 

             

            Full episode notes here: https://ecmp.info/603  

            —

            Download our ebook… https://ecmp.info/ebook 500 Tips to Increase Your Profits

            Get all the links and resources we mention and join our email list at https://ecmp.info

            Love the show? Chloe would love your feedback – leave a review here: https://ecmp.info/review or reply to the episode QandA on Spotify.

            Interested in being a Sponsor? go here: https://ecmp.info/sponsor

            Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

            Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

            WEBVTT

            00:00.490 –> 00:05.214

            [SPEAKER_00]: The one thing that I’ll say to anyone that is evaluating any tools, don’t always just consider that.

            00:05.694 –> 00:09.917

            [SPEAKER_00]: Just because you have a best tool available in the market, it will deliver the best results.

            00:10.478 –> 00:27.991

            [SPEAKER_00]: Because having the fantastic tool is great for then not having the resource and availability to execute what a tool allows you to do, won’t get you the results for you to bring in a tool and deliver the ROI you need a dedicated resource to it, don’t expect tools to just comment their business and magically sing and dance and increase your revenue.

            00:30.540 –> 00:32.923

            [SPEAKER_02]: It’s the e-commerce master plan podcast.

            00:33.544 –> 00:37.549

            [SPEAKER_02]: Air to help you solve your marketing problems and grow your e-commerce business.

            00:38.070 –> 00:45.921

            [SPEAKER_02]: Cutting through the hinder to bring you inspiration and advice from the e-commerce sector and beyond here’s your host, Chloe Thomas.

            00:49.217 –> 00:50.558

            [SPEAKER_01]: Hello and welcome.

            00:50.578 –> 00:51.579

            [SPEAKER_01]: It’s great to have you here.

            00:51.719 –> 00:55.542

            [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for hitting play and choosing to listen to one of our inspiring guests.

            00:56.122 –> 01:04.268

            [SPEAKER_01]: We’ve got a thank you to do before we get into this episode and that thank you is to Aller Cacani from Nostoe for introducing us to this brilliant guest.

            01:04.408 –> 01:05.309

            [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you Aller.

            01:05.349 –> 01:06.350

            [SPEAKER_01]: Hope all is good with you.

            01:07.110 –> 01:25.282

            [SPEAKER_01]: Now, in this episode, we are doing one of those episodes where we dive into a specific job role, I suppose, in the world of Ecommerce, we’re talking to the man in charge of the D2C text at the Port Marion Groups, the huge business trading across six brands, five of which are on D2C, and we’ll be getting into

            01:26.503 –> 01:48.708

            [SPEAKER_01]: whether you should consolidate or test different elements in the text stack, how you go about doing that optimization of the text stack, where AI fits into it all in a whole heap more, plus for those of you who’ve been around as long as I have, prepare to thoroughly enjoy his answer to my question about how did you get started in Ecommerce because there’s a whole load of tech

            01:50.908 –> 01:54.510

            [SPEAKER_01]: kind of swirl up from the past and remind you of things that have gone before.

            01:54.530 –> 02:01.653

            [SPEAKER_01]: And if you’re younger, then prepare to have a list of things to go, what did they do?

            02:01.993 –> 02:03.093

            [SPEAKER_01]: What did they do then?

            02:03.353 –> 02:04.674

            [SPEAKER_01]: Very interesting stuff coming up.

            02:05.034 –> 02:09.916

            [SPEAKER_01]: Make sure you listen to the end so you don’t miss out on my guests top tips and my own take on this episode.

            02:15.786 –> 02:17.787

            [SPEAKER_01]: and now to introduce our special guest.

            02:18.207 –> 02:36.431

            [SPEAKER_01]: Ankit Jadav is the global head of digital operations at the Port Marion Group, home to six unique homeware and fragrance brands with a combined 750 years of trading, including Spode, Port Marion, Royal Worcester, Nambi, Pimpanel, and wax lyrical.

            02:36.891 –> 02:43.933

            [SPEAKER_01]: Turn over is now 110 million pounds a year of which approximately 10% is D to C. Hello, Ankit.

            02:44.312 –> 02:45.013

            [SPEAKER_00]: Hello, Chloe.

            02:45.193 –> 02:46.755

            [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for having me on the podcast.

            02:46.895 –> 02:47.656

            [SPEAKER_00]: Pleasure to be here.

            02:48.016 –> 02:49.798

            [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, awesome to have you here.

            02:50.238 –> 02:57.626

            [SPEAKER_01]: It’s always a treat for me to get to talk to someone who is in one specific area of the e-commerce business rather than trying to tackle everything.

            02:57.706 –> 03:01.130

            [SPEAKER_01]: So very much looking forward to talking tech with you today.

            03:01.570 –> 03:04.313

            [SPEAKER_01]: How did you get into e-commerce, though?

            03:04.798 –> 03:07.599

            [SPEAKER_00]: So my e-commerce journey started really early.

            03:07.920 –> 03:13.062

            [SPEAKER_00]: I say about 23 years ago when I was first introduced to Microsoft front page.

            03:13.082 –> 03:17.664

            [SPEAKER_00]: So some of your listeners might have helped to Google that 23 years ago, long time ago.

            03:17.704 –> 03:24.848

            [SPEAKER_00]: So back then, you know, created a basic page in, if you’ve looked at it from a point of view from today’s technology.

            03:25.408 –> 03:31.109

            [SPEAKER_00]: by just found the whole concept of HTML code, fonts, colors, the alignments and layouts.

            03:31.509 –> 03:35.950

            [SPEAKER_00]: Very interesting was very geeky thing to do back then, but it was always interesting to me.

            03:36.510 –> 03:41.511

            [SPEAKER_00]: And then sort of following on from that, when I was in university, we had a module for internet development.

            03:41.631 –> 03:46.492

            [SPEAKER_00]: So, whereby created a basic, again session-based website using Adobe DreamEver.

            03:46.772 –> 03:48.973

            [SPEAKER_00]: Another throwback, there’s some of you might have the Google.

            03:49.553 –> 03:55.216

            [SPEAKER_00]: And then following on from that it was, I was intrigued, but there was a website around called don’t click the IT.

            03:55.956 –> 03:58.057

            [SPEAKER_00]: If you try going on to it now, it doesn’t exist.

            03:58.417 –> 04:03.319

            [SPEAKER_00]: But the whole background around that website was navigating a website without a click.

            04:03.879 –> 04:08.822

            [SPEAKER_00]: So for me, that was interesting because internet was still in its infancy as I see it.

            04:09.302 –> 04:13.844

            [SPEAKER_00]: So then I created my final year project based on that using Adobe Flash.

            04:14.064 –> 04:16.285

            [SPEAKER_00]: And all of that experience was very interesting.

            04:17.085 –> 04:23.309

            [SPEAKER_00]: Long nights didn’t have air back then, it was a lot of stack overflow and it was all a whole lot of trial and error.

            04:24.129 –> 04:34.615

            [SPEAKER_00]: And then sort of moving away from that after the university, I just played around with the HTML, the CSS, the PHPs, and just the basic JavaScript to understand how everything worked.

            04:35.975 –> 04:41.737

            [SPEAKER_00]: And then I bought a domain, created my website, and tried hosting my first ever portfolio website.

            04:42.577 –> 04:48.139

            [SPEAKER_00]: I still have my fully optimized code somewhere amongst my files.

            04:48.539 –> 04:51.780

            [SPEAKER_00]: It’s not mobile responsive, but I was where I was then.

            04:52.500 –> 05:05.046

            [SPEAKER_00]: And then I spent a lot of time understanding CMS systems, things like WordPress, June, LaDruple, and just get my bearings on how the backend work with these front-end languages, and that’s how I started into it.

            05:05.706 –> 05:13.970

            [SPEAKER_00]: Once I understood it, then my first role was for a five-man team based in Nottingham, and that role was really my eye opener.

            05:14.470 –> 05:26.597

            [SPEAKER_00]: into word of e-comm because that’s where I started from the I started on a apprenticeship scheme really and kind of got lucky getting into e-comm considering the lady that was there previously she didn’t come back from her leave.

            05:27.017 –> 05:36.322

            [SPEAKER_00]: So the role was handed over to me, started in customer service, phones, phone calls, answering emails, and then upgraded to the website maintenance sort of things.

            05:37.583 –> 05:44.846

            [SPEAKER_00]: ablating content, adding products, creating promotions, doing SEO optimization work, all of that on the custom build platform.

            05:45.627 –> 05:54.491

            [SPEAKER_00]: And then got further involved into things like eBay and Amazon management through the point where I eventually I was managing the whole fulfilment by Amazon process.

            05:54.571 –> 06:07.137

            [SPEAKER_00]: So that’s where by you bring the products into your warehouse, you’d label them, you send them ink to the Amazon warehouse, make sure everything is received and you are constantly replenishing quantities, looking after your mind isn’t making sure everything is healthy.

            06:07.717 –> 06:15.943

            [SPEAKER_00]: So there was a lot of hands on there from order printing, hacking, labeling and loading and not loading it on to the career events at the end of the day.

            06:16.924 –> 06:20.467

            [SPEAKER_00]: And that’s where I got my first sort of interaction with the agenda one as well.

            06:20.667 –> 06:26.772

            [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, going on from there, those are really, really an eye opener into e-commerce.

            06:26.912 –> 06:32.136

            [SPEAKER_00]: Really gave me a strong foundation to sort of build up on within how budget’s then because it was a fireman team.

            06:32.636 –> 06:34.477

            [SPEAKER_00]: So there wasn’t signing up for additional services.

            06:34.597 –> 06:39.661

            [SPEAKER_00]: If you needed something done, you had to use your creative problems, problem-solving skills.

            06:40.041 –> 06:45.065

            [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, you know, nowadays everyone has API integration with the likes of a program, I was an EPDs.

            06:45.825 –> 06:59.675

            [SPEAKER_00]: The curious, we didn’t have that, so it was the case of learning, creating a CSV for a URL, uploading the CSV on the URL, and then printing out 500 labels, and then at the end of the year, mandatory channel label, these packages to get them to go up, really.

            07:00.215 –> 07:17.266

            [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, that was my first and then sort of continuing on to my journey, my second role landed me into the into an SME based in Lester and for them I was initially on boarded to work on the eBay and Amazon account because of the experience that had previously.

            07:18.007 –> 07:21.191

            [SPEAKER_00]: But the business had the need to move from the desktop base platform.

            07:21.332 –> 07:31.947

            [SPEAKER_00]: I said with a platform called Actinic again simply will simulate the dream level So not really scalable or robust at that point for whether businesses was trying to get what by the business was heading into

            07:32.788 –> 07:40.535

            [SPEAKER_00]: And considering that’s where the mobile optimizer website was coming into play, it was really imperative for the business to be on the platform that allows them to do that.

            07:41.196 –> 07:46.100

            [SPEAKER_00]: So that’s where we picked a magenta, or what’s now called referred to as Adobe Commas Cloud.

            07:47.121 –> 07:51.585

            [SPEAKER_00]: And the agency that we worked with was bit slow at responding and we had time lent it.

            07:51.765 –> 07:57.571

            [SPEAKER_00]: So we had to get it live before the peak trading period nature was functioning, going to the testing, et cetera, et cetera.

            07:58.191 –> 08:09.396

            [SPEAKER_00]: So the business made a decision of bringing it in house and because of the hands-on experience that had previously and the worker had done, they basically sort of gave me the key and said, gone, you can do it now.

            08:10.156 –> 08:23.222

            [SPEAKER_00]: So then there was a lot of hands-on there as well trying to go from the the magenta installation, configuration, the theme management, the running of it on the day-to-day process mapping, a lot of

            08:24.082 –> 08:30.284

            [SPEAKER_00]: Excel data manipulation to get in the right order, and that was also the first time I worked with head offshore team.

            08:30.324 –> 08:34.706

            [SPEAKER_00]: So briefing and how the execution comes about was a new thing to me at that time as well.

            08:35.726 –> 08:38.487

            [SPEAKER_00]: And to add on top of that, there was an project management tool.

            08:38.747 –> 08:41.488

            [SPEAKER_00]: No G error, no click up, no Trello, nothing.

            08:41.548 –> 08:42.989

            [SPEAKER_00]: It was a case of now.

            08:43.069 –> 08:47.070

            [SPEAKER_00]: Some of you can interpret it however you wanted, but it was JFYI mode.

            08:47.911 –> 09:03.285

            [SPEAKER_00]: If whatever you want to fool it, just yeah, the backlog, sprints, prioritizing stories, so yeah, quite quite an experience working as an in-house developer slash an admin slash, you know, to go to guy.

            09:03.825 –> 09:09.791

            [SPEAKER_00]: And that’s where I go exposed into the world of sort of website security, payments, PC IDSS.

            09:10.231 –> 09:12.293

            [SPEAKER_00]: So quite a learning curve there really.

            09:12.853 –> 09:19.420

            [SPEAKER_00]: And then we also implemented a PIM and a RMS system because the business was multi-channel-oriented.

            09:19.580 –> 09:22.622

            [SPEAKER_00]: So we sold on the website as well as the eBay and the Amazon’s.

            09:23.383 –> 09:29.604

            [SPEAKER_00]: and because the business was expanding, managing the daily operation of printing the orders, labelling, etc.

            09:29.624 –> 09:29.904

            [SPEAKER_00]: etc.

            09:29.924 –> 09:31.685

            [SPEAKER_00]: I was just taking time.

            09:31.925 –> 09:35.886

            [SPEAKER_00]: So instead of people doing this manual task, we need to be need to automate it.

            09:36.466 –> 09:38.086

            [SPEAKER_00]: So we implemented that system as well.

            09:38.586 –> 09:45.768

            [SPEAKER_00]: Then I said remember being sat on the floor on the first day of launch, being fully exhausted because you can go through integrations,

            09:47.968 –> 09:50.550

            [SPEAKER_00]: but when it’s goal-life time, that’s when it really hits the fan.

            09:50.570 –> 09:53.431

            [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, quite an experience there.

            09:53.492 –> 10:06.640

            [SPEAKER_00]: So, going from the hands on exposure to implementing a platform, and then you’re only naturally made sense to go into the agency side of things, to work with an agency based investor.

            10:07.180 –> 10:21.727

            [SPEAKER_00]: So it was a case of taking the experience I had, but turning down to a bigger scale and sort of a single project you worked on three or four life projects at a time, go from kickoff, design, front end build, back end work, managing the integrations, testing,

            10:22.407 –> 10:48.399

            [SPEAKER_00]: I’m going live really and I really allow me to home in on the multiple E-Com platforms that I work with now We don’t from the likes of that will become as cloud big commerce shopify and the external tools and the third part is that still work with currently They will really allow me to get into those these house and although I started on the role as a project manager When I went came towards the end I was acting more as a technology architect.

            10:48.539 –> 10:51.100

            [SPEAKER_00]: So that was wonderful and after all of that

            10:51.880 –> 10:53.302

            [SPEAKER_00]: Here I am at Port Marying Group.

            10:53.322 –> 10:56.485

            [SPEAKER_00]: So take all of that, bundle it into a nice little package.

            10:56.565 –> 11:07.475

            [SPEAKER_00]: So this is where I manage now the four B2C from stack, manage the budgets, setting the vision and strategy for the tech unit, manage the RFP process.

            11:07.776 –> 11:14.602

            [SPEAKER_00]: When the selection, conversion negotiations, the legal sort of thing on boarding, execution and handover.

            11:14.802 –> 11:16.224

            [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, here I am.

            11:16.818 –> 11:19.120

            [SPEAKER_01]: I love that that run-down you’ve just given us.

            11:19.180 –> 11:21.062

            [SPEAKER_01]: I get there was so many tech things.

            11:21.122 –> 11:21.803

            [SPEAKER_01]: I was good.

            11:21.963 –> 11:35.135

            [SPEAKER_01]: I remember acting at the website on a CD-ROM and DreamWeaver, gosh, I did a DreamWeaver course in Levington’s Spa, I think, back in the day for some unknown reason.

            11:35.856 –> 11:37.618

            [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, love, love that run-down.

            11:37.698 –> 11:40.460

            [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think if you didn’t have

            11:41.481 –> 11:52.206

            [SPEAKER_01]: such a background in the coding side of it, you know, then the hands on part you be able to do because like I’m I’m assuming most of your job these days doesn’t involve a great deal of coding.

            11:52.246 –> 12:01.770

            [SPEAKER_01]: So do you think you’d be as good managing the text like if you didn’t have that deep knowledge of the the actual code itself or in all its forms.

            12:02.313 –> 12:15.576

            [SPEAKER_00]: In my view, no, just because having that understanding the how the code side integrations just understanding how the background works, it allows the easy conversation with the developers or the project managers.

            12:15.776 –> 12:21.698

            [SPEAKER_00]: And it also puts you in the front seat in a way, because you, because you’re worked on it, you know what it takes.

            12:21.858 –> 12:29.479

            [SPEAKER_00]: So when the developer or the project manager come back to you over the challenge, that means if they say it’s X, you agree with X.

            12:29.559 –> 12:31.520

            [SPEAKER_00]: If there’s a X and you know for a fact,

            12:32.761 –> 12:55.701

            [SPEAKER_00]: other bits behind you can query them a bit further and it’s not just the challenging bits also the learning experience as well because you know the development side of things is always evolving so the more you query read them the more information you get back the more you are understanding it further as well so it just allows your personal development and your last-for-strong relationship I mean some of the partners that we’ve had in the business they’ve been there for quite a long time and

            12:56.782 –> 13:08.274

            [SPEAKER_00]: It’s one of those where I know if something was to happen, if there’s a priority issue, or if it was to hit the fan, I know they will help my back for a fact, and that’s where I’ve got to know.

            13:08.970 –> 13:23.743

            [SPEAKER_01]: And the other, you know, preparing for this interview, the one question I really wanted to ask you, because I’ve got many years ago was the E-commerce manager in charge of six or seven different mail order brands, right?

            13:24.003 –> 13:26.605

            [SPEAKER_01]: So businesses with budget but no idea what to do online.

            13:27.746 –> 13:35.229

            [SPEAKER_01]: And the deliberation I found was, should I build them all on different text acts?

            13:35.449 –> 13:39.791

            [SPEAKER_01]: So as I’ve got different things I can test, you know, you can actually live test.

            13:39.851 –> 13:43.052

            [SPEAKER_01]: Should we be on, I know Shopify, should we be on a daily commerce class?

            13:43.072 –> 13:47.994

            [SPEAKER_01]: We’ll build one on each and then we’ll do the rest of them on whatever wins the test.

            13:48.494 –> 13:50.495

            [SPEAKER_01]: Or do you go for consolidation?

            13:51.555 –> 13:52.976

            [SPEAKER_01]: what’s your approach?

            13:53.236 –> 13:57.678

            [SPEAKER_01]: I listen as I always face as I was saying, I think I don’t know where we’re going with this.

            13:58.058 –> 14:05.062

            [SPEAKER_01]: But, but, and can you go consolidation one tech stack for all six brands or do you put some testing in there as well?

            14:05.610 –> 14:12.212

            [SPEAKER_00]: Now, for when you should say that, because coincidentally, it was just last year that would be into a consolidation tech stack.

            14:12.372 –> 14:17.113

            [SPEAKER_00]: So I inherited originally a Salesforce commerce cloud and Adobe commerce cloud.

            14:17.794 –> 14:33.098

            [SPEAKER_00]: And while it is wonderful to how we are multiple platforms, the management of it, the data management, not just, you know, from the e-commerce or a tech stack perspective, but just a daily content administration, the pricing and everything that goes into it.

            14:33.598 –> 14:39.623

            [SPEAKER_00]: becomes a bit convoluted whereby you’re not doing your best work because you’re just trying to get it going.

            14:39.663 –> 14:48.431

            [SPEAKER_00]: So having it on multiple platforms, if you have bigger teams and you can scale those teams, then it’s a great resource to have.

            14:48.471 –> 14:50.533

            [SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately for us, that wasn’t the case.

            14:50.733 –> 14:56.858

            [SPEAKER_00]: So we had those two platforms at the end of the day, we had to pick one where we could have our technology set onto.

            14:57.679 –> 15:03.704

            [SPEAKER_00]: So, as of January this year, all five of our websites that all now have live in Adobe Commerce Cloud.

            15:04.144 –> 15:05.585

            [SPEAKER_01]: Consolidation all the way then.

            15:06.066 –> 15:06.646

            [SPEAKER_00]: Yes indeed.

            15:06.846 –> 15:18.876

            [SPEAKER_00]: And because we’re sort of rolling even further now, because now that the platform is consolidated, now we’re looking across the multiple tools that we have as well to go which one to be consolidated all of our services into.

            15:18.896 –> 15:23.600

            [SPEAKER_00]: So, then we have one ESP provider, one PIM and so on and so forth.

            15:23.620 –> 15:25.302

            [SPEAKER_00]: So, it’s a continual process.

            15:25.833 –> 15:47.759

            [SPEAKER_01]: And is it also something which, you know, in the e-commerce tech stack space, the ecosystem at the moment, we are seeing tools doing ever more things, you know, blurring of the lines between, I mean, loyalty affiliates and retention as a bad example more of a marketing example than a tech stack example, but those blurring of lines between things so as well as.

            15:49.093 –> 15:52.637

            [SPEAKER_01]: consolidating so all your brands are using the same ESP.

            15:52.697 –> 16:00.806

            [SPEAKER_01]: You also going, well actually, we don’t need a separate this and that because this one tool will cover what three tools are doing previously does that come into your thinking.

            16:01.544 –> 16:11.430

            [SPEAKER_00]: So in terms of our consolidation view, we are continuously reviewing our text stack, just because you have a best of brief solutions in less safe search, for example.

            16:11.530 –> 16:15.272

            [SPEAKER_00]: And then all of a sudden, they will offer recommendation or a merchandising.

            16:15.672 –> 16:29.560

            [SPEAKER_00]: But then when you go through that RFP process with them, you quickly find out that this specific tool that really good at search and let’s just stick with search on them just because of the ROI you receive as compared to having that all in one tool.

            16:30.480 –> 16:35.842

            [SPEAKER_00]: There are other providers that do really good job of them, but they’re just not within our budget right now.

            16:35.922 –> 16:38.382

            [SPEAKER_00]: I would love to have them, but we are just not there yet.

            16:39.223 –> 16:44.084

            [SPEAKER_01]: So it’s not just going, let’s have fewer tools for the sake of fewer tools.

            16:44.324 –> 16:54.227

            [SPEAKER_01]: It’s the price and the budget and it’s what gives us the best results and what’s already in place, I suppose, as well.

            16:54.247 –> 16:56.008

            [SPEAKER_01]: There’s a lot of factors you’re having to bring together.

            16:56.468 –> 17:22.634

            [SPEAKER_00]: absolutely and the one thing that I’ll say to anyone that is evaluating any tools don’t always just consider that just because you have a best tool available in the market it would deliver the best results because having the fantastic tool is great for then not having the resource and availability to execute what a tool allows you to do won’t get you the results for you to bring in a tool and deliver the ROI you need a dedicated resource to a don’t expect tool to just

            17:27.055 –> 17:29.017

            [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so many of us make that error.

            17:29.137 –> 17:31.298

            [SPEAKER_01]: I was gonna say so many people, but no, it’s us.

            17:31.478 –> 17:32.299

            [SPEAKER_01]: I do it as well.

            17:32.339 –> 17:35.821

            [SPEAKER_01]: You buy the tool and think you’ve, you’ve solved the problems like back at uni.

            17:35.861 –> 17:40.084

            [SPEAKER_01]: If I scan the book, if I fail to copy the article, it’s the same as reading it.

            17:40.184 –> 17:40.825

            [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, Chloe.

            17:40.905 –> 17:41.965

            [SPEAKER_00]: I wish that was really good.

            17:42.406 –> 17:43.867

            [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

            17:43.947 –> 17:44.427

            [SPEAKER_01]: If only.

            17:44.987 –> 17:49.490

            [SPEAKER_01]: And so, what does your team look like?

            17:50.031 –> 17:53.653

            [SPEAKER_01]: And you go, go wider across the D to C channels, if you want to with this.

            17:54.117 –> 17:57.199

            [SPEAKER_00]: So our team, we are a, no lies here.

            17:57.219 –> 17:59.380

            [SPEAKER_00]: We are a lean, mean operating machine.

            17:59.481 –> 18:02.002

            [SPEAKER_00]: We, you know, spread across five brands.

            18:02.482 –> 18:05.344

            [SPEAKER_00]: There is eight of us, which is a global team base in UK.

            18:05.685 –> 18:11.769

            [SPEAKER_00]: We are spread across trading, content, merchandising, admin, and technical projects.

            18:11.889 –> 18:18.033

            [SPEAKER_00]: And sort of as of what I’ve alluded to earlier, we are supported by some incredible partners that we’ve had over the number of years.

            18:18.493 –> 18:21.575

            [SPEAKER_00]: But strong, very, very, very strong relationships.

            18:22.265 –> 18:27.251

            [SPEAKER_01]: And that eight is that doing the marketing as well or is that purely keeping the websites running?

            18:27.612 –> 18:29.755

            [SPEAKER_00]: That’s marketing, that’s website marketing as well.

            18:29.835 –> 18:36.724

            [SPEAKER_00]: So it’s a, yeah, it’s a quite a big task, but somehow the team plouter it and we still deliver results.

            18:37.398 –> 18:53.061

            [SPEAKER_01]: That’s impressive and I I suppose it till to run it so leanly you can’t do what I was just you know just implement everything and run it and see what happens and then test it afterwards you’ve got to do that to diligence really well before you make those decisions.

            18:53.732 –> 18:53.832

            [SPEAKER_00]: it.

            18:54.472 –> 18:59.313

            [SPEAKER_00]: And it goes into that prior to the Moscow, the must-have should-have could-have.

            18:59.693 –> 19:02.894

            [SPEAKER_00]: What’s going to deliver the highest value with the lowest amount of effort?

            19:02.954 –> 19:04.054

            [SPEAKER_00]: Let’s get implemented first.

            19:04.115 –> 19:08.015

            [SPEAKER_00]: So then you’re almost when it comes to creating a business cases.

            19:08.135 –> 19:21.219

            [SPEAKER_00]: You’re releasing the value from a ex-solution or ex-initiative before you’re able to go back to the people that signed the checks and say, hey, now I need ex-amman for this solution because we did this ex-test and looked at

            19:23.240 –> 19:26.047

            [SPEAKER_00]: And that’s how you incrementally build your toolset.

            19:26.208 –> 19:30.800

            [SPEAKER_00]: And it’s all about building the right toolset as I said previously and not just having the tool for the sake of it.

            19:31.708 –> 19:37.831

            [SPEAKER_01]: And you’re running five brands on the DDC platforms globally.

            19:39.251 –> 19:49.036

            [SPEAKER_01]: How do you, I suppose, from the tech stack perspective, it’s a little bit easier to work at how to prioritize because you’re building a consolidated tech stack across everything.

            19:49.596 –> 19:53.658

            [SPEAKER_01]: But as a team to decide, are we going to spend all our time

            19:54.418 –> 20:03.186

            [SPEAKER_01]: working on website A versus website D. How do you, is it purely based on sales where the effort gets put in or is it potential sales?

            20:03.947 –> 20:05.128

            [SPEAKER_00]: It’s mixed up both.

            20:05.168 –> 20:16.438

            [SPEAKER_00]: So because we are UK and US, if US have a specific day coming up, like come and coming up the June, they would have so a fourth of July, then that will get a lot more effort than the UK of website.

            20:16.899 –> 20:17.319

            [SPEAKER_00]: We know for

            20:20.582 –> 20:26.688

            [SPEAKER_00]: consumers, they’re more attracted to our Christmas offerings, but that and launch will get more attention than it will get on the UK one.

            20:26.708 –> 20:40.780

            [SPEAKER_00]: So it’s all about the big channel, it’s performing at what level, what events are coming up, what promotional activities we’ve got planned, what product launches we’ve got planned, you know what pricing strategies we’ve got plans, it’s a mix of multiple factors in a way.

            20:41.635 –> 20:47.599

            [SPEAKER_01]: Now, given you such a text, that can expert in the e-commerce space, no pressure, no pressure.

            20:48.500 –> 20:55.724

            [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, you’ve just done last year, you’ve been doing the big platform consolidation and getting the right platform.

            20:56.385 –> 21:01.588

            [SPEAKER_01]: What for you are the next must have pieces of tech for an e-commerce story?

            21:01.608 –> 21:03.950

            [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the decisions you really don’t want to get wrong.

            21:04.687 –> 21:07.669

            [SPEAKER_00]: So the next key one for us is a CDP.

            21:07.889 –> 21:09.209

            [SPEAKER_00]: So customer data platform.

            21:09.690 –> 21:14.052

            [SPEAKER_00]: Now that we’ve got our tech in one place, now it’s all about let’s understand our customers.

            21:14.312 –> 21:19.535

            [SPEAKER_00]: Let’s understand how they’re interacting with the websites, the touch points which they’re interacting with.

            21:20.115 –> 21:24.836

            [SPEAKER_00]: And once we’ve got that idea, then it’s flipping out on its head in terms of personalization.

            21:24.937 –> 21:34.299

            [SPEAKER_00]: So now of the customers, if customers visited the website once from, let’s say, paid for example, when they come in the next time, they should see an experience which is tailored to them.

            21:34.319 –> 21:42.722

            [SPEAKER_00]: So if they’ll click on a specific product, a specific collection, whatever have you, when they’ll land on the website, they’re seeing something that’s more catered towards them.

            21:42.742 –> 21:46.323

            [SPEAKER_00]: It’s a really increased chance of that customer converting.

            21:46.857 –> 21:53.027

            [SPEAKER_01]: So it’s CDP next in order to enable personalization on the website and across marketing.

            21:53.709 –> 21:56.373

            [SPEAKER_00]: Currently it’s just across our websites and not the retail.

            21:56.393 –> 22:00.300

            [SPEAKER_00]: So we haven’t opened up that kind of one that multi-channel is at the moment.

            22:01.198 –> 22:04.602

            [SPEAKER_01]: Fair enough is a whole other level of complexity.

            22:04.923 –> 22:05.623

            [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yes, indeed.

            22:05.904 –> 22:08.727

            [SPEAKER_01]: And dare I ask you about AI?

            22:08.747 –> 22:15.274

            [SPEAKER_01]: There’s so much noise in our space at the moment about AI being the bringer of everything.

            22:15.515 –> 22:20.600

            [SPEAKER_01]: Clearly, you have some serious knowledge both of our tech ecosystem and

            22:21.341 –> 22:26.209

            [SPEAKER_01]: with coding and new tools and new things coming in over your careers, you ran us three.

            22:26.990 –> 22:28.832

            [SPEAKER_01]: What’s your take on AI?

            22:28.893 –> 22:33.840

            [SPEAKER_01]: You busy implementing it across the business, if you’re not done anything yet, where do you think you’ll start?

            22:34.301 –> 22:35.222

            [SPEAKER_01]: What’s your take on it all?

            22:35.815 –> 22:44.741

            [SPEAKER_00]: So in terms of, we have, I say we, at some of us have started using AI just to understand the current processes and how we can optimize it.

            22:45.221 –> 22:55.348

            [SPEAKER_00]: Now we haven’t rolled it out to the wider business just because before you do, you take on such a brave steps, you need to have a couple of policies surrounding it because if you give it to people,

            22:56.028 –> 23:01.895

            [SPEAKER_00]: There will push a whole lot of data into the ask it questions and not knowing where the data goes into.

            23:01.995 –> 23:04.137

            [SPEAKER_00]: That opens up privacy questions.

            23:04.218 –> 23:07.982

            [SPEAKER_00]: So we are keeping it to a certain number of people really.

            23:08.803 –> 23:12.347

            [SPEAKER_00]: And we will also establish sort of like AI working group internally.

            23:12.847 –> 23:27.421

            [SPEAKER_00]: So between some of us that have the working knowledge of various processes within the business, we are effectively sticking all of them in a list and kind of picking a process that we could optimize using AI and all of that we are doing internally right now.

            23:28.402 –> 23:29.783

            [SPEAKER_00]: In terms of extending that

            23:31.665 –> 23:41.730

            [SPEAKER_00]: I still like to dip in and out of the coding side of things so I kind of use your Claude co-work as my coding partner as I’m going through it as I’m going through my personal website.

            23:41.810 –> 23:44.812

            [SPEAKER_00]: It was just to understand what the can’t what’s its can’t do.

            23:45.272 –> 23:50.775

            [SPEAKER_00]: Also when it comes to troubleshooting issues in the website every now and then when you see things and instead of

            23:51.455 –> 24:03.058

            [SPEAKER_00]: And the previous previously working of Stack Overflow’s Google, so whatever have you now, we have this real-time companion in a way that you can ask a question and you get the answers and they will set you in the right direction.

            24:03.078 –> 24:04.819

            [SPEAKER_00]: So that’s how we approaching it.

            24:04.859 –> 24:08.480

            [SPEAKER_00]: We’ve got a couple of tools that offer these AR solutions.

            24:08.620 –> 24:16.863

            [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I get a lot of AR experts reaching out to me about how they can solve all the issues, but I haven’t seen anything that’s blowing me out.

            24:16.983 –> 24:18.283

            [SPEAKER_00]: It has amazed me, so far.

            24:19.455 –> 24:35.469

            [SPEAKER_01]: So I can get one of my theories around AI and tell me if I’m way off base with this or if you agree, is that actually any commerce the biggest impact with AI is gonna come from it being built into the tools we already use.

            24:36.370 –> 24:44.916

            [SPEAKER_01]: You know, our merchandising system, our CDP, our website, et cetera, et cetera, rather than it being the team generating marketing graphics.

            24:45.256 –> 24:58.505

            [SPEAKER_01]: And it feels like just to add another question in there for you, that a lot of the e-commerce tech tools are now building in AI elements on the backend that we use and sometimes on the customer and as well, are you seeing that?

            24:59.492 –> 25:18.750

            [SPEAKER_00]: yes indeed so the backend wise having AR tools is incredible now because instead of the team having to load them go through multiple reports and get the answers that they need they can ask the question they have the number although sometimes you do have to go to a check it because I’ve seen a couple of examples where the AR will come back with an answer where that’s not

            25:19.350 –> 25:20.531

            [SPEAKER_00]: what the reports are suggesting.

            25:20.551 –> 25:23.612

            [SPEAKER_00]: So that’s the internal reporting system.

            25:23.652 –> 25:27.334

            [SPEAKER_00]: But when it comes to front and side of things, the AI is incredible.

            25:27.394 –> 25:44.301

            [SPEAKER_00]: And we are really looking at unlocking that next phase, which is the personalization going on from CDP because that’s whereby if the user comes in and depending on how they browse the website, the next time they come in, the website descriptions and how the website is presented to them,

            25:50.725 –> 25:55.586

            [SPEAKER_02]: The Ecommerce Masterplan is supporting by some of the greatest companies in the Ecommerce sector.

            25:55.706 –> 26:03.828

            [SPEAKER_02]: Here’s a reminder of who they are.

            26:03.989 –> 26:05.869

            [SPEAKER_02]: It’s time for the top tips round.

            26:08.450 –> 26:15.812

            [SPEAKER_01]: OK, I love this section because me and I’ll list us some really quick ideas for taking our businesses to the next level, Ankit, are you ready for the top tips?

            26:16.392 –> 26:16.912

            [SPEAKER_00]: Yes indeed.

            26:17.333 –> 26:18.655

            [SPEAKER_01]: OK, the booktop tip.

            26:18.776 –> 26:25.668

            [SPEAKER_01]: If everyone listening to this podcast, agreed to take Friday off and read a book to make their business better, which book would you recommend?

            26:26.425 –> 26:27.225

            [SPEAKER_00]: So I’ve got two books.

            26:27.685 –> 26:29.966

            [SPEAKER_00]: One of them is to get the internal files started.

            26:30.186 –> 26:36.329

            [SPEAKER_00]: And the other one is to keep you balanced as you’re on the path of achieving whatever goes you might have.

            26:36.549 –> 26:38.149

            [SPEAKER_00]: And it’s a ding-yang concept.

            26:38.589 –> 26:46.272

            [SPEAKER_00]: So the first one before I mention the book name is the quote from the author, which I’ve got it sort of printed and labeled in my head now as well, since the quote is quite simple.

            26:46.812 –> 26:53.555

            [SPEAKER_00]: It’s, if you think of the price of winning this too high, wait until you get the bill of regret, because that bill is generational.

            26:54.435 –> 27:20.604

            [SPEAKER_00]: really powerful quote there and that quote is from Tim Grover and if there are any basketball fans listening to this he was the athletic trainer for in my view the greatest of all time Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant and the book his book is relentless and it’s pretty much all in the title really you know strip away it gives you that mentality to strip away the excuses and go after what it really takes to perform at the highest level when it matters the most so that’s the first one.

            27:21.064 –> 27:25.667

            [SPEAKER_00]: and whether you implement it in your personal life or professional life, it really gets the fire started.

            27:26.328 –> 27:31.551

            [SPEAKER_00]: The second one is to sort of keep your balance and that’s the daily stomach by Ryan Holiday.

            27:32.051 –> 27:39.816

            [SPEAKER_00]: Now, unlike the other books, this is simply one page a day and it’s using that ancient wisdom for more than life.

            27:40.157 –> 27:43.479

            [SPEAKER_00]: It helps you building them into resilience and that clarity.

            27:44.199 –> 27:45.200

            [SPEAKER_00]: So those are my two books.

            27:45.934 –> 27:49.877

            [SPEAKER_01]: I love the balance between the balanced book and the fire book.

            27:50.218 –> 27:51.279

            [SPEAKER_01]: Great recommendations.

            27:51.299 –> 27:51.999

            [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Anke.

            27:52.119 –> 27:58.545

            [SPEAKER_01]: And traffic top tip, which marketing method do you either prize above all others or think doesn’t get the press it deserves?

            27:59.480 –> 28:07.301

            [SPEAKER_00]: I think the keeping of the inclusion of organic traffic needs to be on top of everyone’s mind at all times.

            28:07.601 –> 28:24.724

            [SPEAKER_00]: The one key tip is, keep your products depending on which market you are, keep your products story or orientated and take your customers on that storytelling journey, make it so that when your customers are thinking of your industry or the products that you when you compare it to

            28:29.565 –> 28:40.115

            [SPEAKER_00]: Funnel where customer comes in and you’re looking to sell them, get them, get into the storyteller and really get your customer to understand the business, the history, and what you’re offering.

            28:40.676 –> 28:43.118

            [SPEAKER_01]: Nice, okay, tool-top tip.

            28:43.338 –> 28:47.803

            [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe a collaboration tool, a social media plug-in, a phone-up, or just a way of working.

            28:47.923 –> 28:52.527

            [SPEAKER_01]: Is there a cool little tool you use that makes you and your team more efficient from day to day?

            28:53.365 –> 28:53.865

            [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

            28:54.126 –> 28:57.307

            [SPEAKER_00]: Mine is the Pomodoro focus to do list.

            28:57.367 –> 28:59.749

            [SPEAKER_00]: It’s a simple concept of 25 and 5.

            28:59.769 –> 29:03.071

            [SPEAKER_00]: So you work on whatever task you may have for 25 minutes.

            29:03.591 –> 29:12.076

            [SPEAKER_00]: Take a five minute break, get you to just walk away from your desk, refresh, recharge, and you’ll get back in, get back into swing of things.

            29:12.636 –> 29:15.458

            [SPEAKER_00]: I use it very simply just to list everything that I have.

            29:15.878 –> 29:34.760

            [SPEAKER_00]: Because sometimes I find there will throw you got physical written notes having to fill it through them back and forth Takes a bit takes your time whereas I keep it in a way so that all my tasks are organized I keep my notes in there so when I pick them up the next day I don’t need to refresh myself I’ve got myself in a reminder of what I need to do in a carry on from there

            29:35.180 –> 29:37.762

            [SPEAKER_00]: And the other tool I would just say is get yourself an AI buddy.

            29:38.202 –> 29:46.747

            [SPEAKER_00]: So you can throw ideas back and forth and you can move on with your… Whatever idea you may have into something big if there is a rationale behind it.

            29:47.467 –> 29:49.809

            [SPEAKER_01]: Nice couple of tips in there like here.

            29:49.829 –> 29:51.230

            [SPEAKER_01]: The carbon top tip.

            29:51.670 –> 29:55.252

            [SPEAKER_01]: What’s your favourite way to reduce the carbon footprint of an e-commerce store?

            29:55.993 –> 30:01.958

            [SPEAKER_00]: So luckily we have a sustainability team here at Port Marion and they’re always on top of search initiatives.

            30:01.998 –> 30:05.220

            [SPEAKER_00]: So they are constantly reviewing the packaging used in materials.

            30:05.600 –> 30:07.742

            [SPEAKER_00]: We work with careers that have EV in them.

            30:08.463 –> 30:15.928

            [SPEAKER_00]: We have sensor lights throughout the warehouse and the warehouse and the offices and they also go energy efficient boats implemented.

            30:15.988 –> 30:17.610

            [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, all cool to see them.

            30:18.110 –> 30:23.614

            [SPEAKER_01]: And huge impacts all of those on the bottom line as well as the carbon footprint.

            30:25.122 –> 30:32.584

            [SPEAKER_01]: very much so okay and get before we say goodbye could you please let us know when you can find you and put Mary in on the web and social media.

            30:33.244 –> 30:43.687

            [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely so on the web we are uh portmarion.co.uk, spode.co.uk if you are from the US portmarion.com spode.com and number.com.

            30:44.203 –> 30:48.149

            [SPEAKER_01]: simple as that, everybody and thank you so much for coming on the show.

            30:48.490 –> 30:55.100

            [SPEAKER_01]: It’s been great diving into the world of the tech stack, optimiser I suppose, so thank you so much for being here.

            30:55.741 –> 30:56.563

            [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for having me again.

            31:02.416 –> 31:10.681

            [SPEAKER_01]: fascinating to dive into Ankit’s world there, and I think lots of bits and pieces I find quite fascinating in there.

            31:11.502 –> 31:20.648

            [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, you know, a lovely reminder for those of us who’ve been around for long enough of all those tools we’ve used over the years, and he’s kind of how he got into

            31:24.370 –> 31:29.473

            [SPEAKER_01]: Not the slowness, but the consideredness of how they are going about consolidating the text.

            31:29.493 –> 31:33.036

            [SPEAKER_01]: You get one bit right, then you find there won’t bit that’s going to make the most different.

            31:33.616 –> 31:43.963

            [SPEAKER_01]: I’m sure a customer data platform is not the easiest next step to take after doing your web platform, but obviously it’s one that’s going to make huge impacts on the business.

            31:44.543 –> 31:51.208

            [SPEAKER_01]: Now you get your hands on our notes from this episode, including the top tips and links to what we discussed by heading over to ecommercemasterplan.com.

            31:51.588 –> 32:02.374

            [SPEAKER_01]: You can also use a direct episode short links just put ECMP.info forward slash the number of this episode into the URL bar and you’ll be redirected straight to the right episode page.

            32:02.834 –> 32:08.918

            [SPEAKER_01]: When you get to the website you can also add yourself to the email list so you don’t miss out on any of the other things I share to help you.

            32:09.418 –> 32:25.039

            [SPEAKER_01]: If you like this episode, then make sure you check out episode 285 with Ainsley Pete from Cox and Cox for more homewares insights, and if you want more homewares than that, then ECMP.info4sash home for that.

            32:25.720 –> 32:30.961

            [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for tuning into this and every episode that you do of the Ecommerce Master Plan podcast.

            32:31.241 –> 32:43.625

            [SPEAKER_01]: I bring you a new interview every week because I want to inspire and help Ecommerce business owners like you to succeed and thrive with your businesses, including encouraging businesses and consumers to make more sustainable buying decisions.

            32:43.705 –> 32:49.346

            [SPEAKER_01]: So if you know someone this show can help, please tell them to listen to the Ecommerce Master Plan podcast.

            32:49.706 –> 32:50.767

            [SPEAKER_01]: Have you ever great week and don’t

            32:55.428 –> 32:58.732

            [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for listening to the e-commerce Master Plan podcast.

            32:59.193 –> 33:04.079

            [SPEAKER_02]: Find out more at e-commercemasterplanned.com slash podcast.

            34 min
          • eCommerce MasterPlan | 602: AI Search, Meta Ads, and Lean Operations: The Myrqvist Growth Story

            Douglas Holm is the Head of Online at Myrqvist, sellers and designers of quality, classic men’s shoes. Founded in 2016 they now sell online via their Shopify store and 4 stores in Sweden, Norway, New York and London, and a select group of partner stores. Turnover is now at €10 million a year. 

             

            In this episode, Douglas reveals how Myrqvist has built a lean, high-performing eCommerce operation that punches well above its weight. From AI-driven automation and product data optimisation to international growth and in-house marketing, he shares practical insights for any brand looking to scale smarter. 

             

            Hit PLAY to hear: 

            • How Myrqvist built a €10M brand with just 8 people at head office 
            • The AI automations saving hours every week across customer service and operations 
            • Why improving product data is boosting SEO, AI search, and customer experience at the same time 
            • How Myrqvist is already winning traffic from ChatGPT and other AI search tools 
            • The simple framework Douglas uses to decide what to automate next 
            • Why keeping Meta ads in-house gives Myrqvist a major competitive advantage 

              •  

              Key timestamps to dive straight in: 

              [06:13] Offering premium-quality shoes affordably 

              [09:37] Leveraging AI to optimize operations 

              [11:36] Improving AI for site search 

              [14:38] Competing with heritage shoe brands 

              [18:41] Exploring AI for product design 

              [22:32] Benefits of in-house content production 

              [24:07] Listen to Douglas’s Top Tips! 

               

              Full episode notes here: https://ecmp.info/602

              —

              Download our ebook… https://ecmp.info/ebook 500 Tips to Increase Your Profits

              Get all the links and resources we mention and join our email list at https://ecmp.info

              Love the show? Chloe would love your feedback – leave a review here: https://ecmp.info/review or reply to the episode QandA on Spotify.

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              WEBVTT

              00:00.551 –> 00:11.139

              [SPEAKER_00]: Being that close to performance data and having the content production in-house just really allows us to understand the customer better and to really work on and continuously improve our brand.

              00:11.499 –> 00:22.407

              [SPEAKER_00]: It pushes us to catch friction points or fall-off questions that people have about our products and figure out how to respond to them, which we really wouldn’t be doing if I just delegated it to an agency.

              00:25.157 –> 00:27.541

              [SPEAKER_01]: It’s the e-commerce master plan podcast.

              00:28.082 –> 00:32.168

              [SPEAKER_01]: Here to help you solve your marketing problems and grow your e-commerce business.

              00:32.689 –> 00:38.217

              [SPEAKER_01]: Cutting through the hide-off to bring you inspiration and advice from the e-commerce sector and beyond.

              00:38.477 –> 00:40.481

              [SPEAKER_01]: Here’s your host, Chloe Thomas.

              00:43.811 –> 00:45.932

              [SPEAKER_02]: Hello and welcome, it’s great to have you here.

              00:45.992 –> 00:49.955

              [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for hitting play and choosing to listen to one of our inspiring guests.

              00:50.635 –> 00:56.899

              [SPEAKER_02]: Huge thank you to Siri from Dema, D-E-M-A for introducing us to this brilliant guest.

              00:57.239 –> 00:58.920

              [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much, Siri.

              00:59.060 –> 01:00.341

              [SPEAKER_02]: Really appreciate the intro.

              01:00.981 –> 01:10.968

              [SPEAKER_02]: In this episode, we’re talking to a fashion business who are over 10 million euros about how they are keeping their head off his team down to just eight people.

              01:11.368 –> 01:12.689

              [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, they’ll be talking about AI.

              01:12.789 –> 01:17.713

              [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, they will be talking about prioritization and we’ll be getting into some stuff around meta ads too.

              01:18.313 –> 01:24.097

              [SPEAKER_02]: Please listen to the end of this episode so you don’t miss out on my guest’s top tips and my own take on this episode.

              01:28.094 –> 01:30.056

              [SPEAKER_02]: and now to introduce our special guest.

              01:30.456 –> 01:36.921

              [SPEAKER_02]: Douglas Holm is the head of online at Merquist, sellers and designers of quality classic men’s shoes.

              01:37.322 –> 01:47.190

              [SPEAKER_02]: Founded in 2016, they now sell via their Shopify store and four stores in Sweden, Norway, New York and London, plus a select group of partner stores.

              01:47.670 –> 01:50.673

              [SPEAKER_02]: Turn over is now at 10 million euros a year.

              01:50.913 –> 01:51.754

              [SPEAKER_02]: Hello Douglas.

              01:52.194 –> 01:52.975

              [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, how are you Chloe?

              01:53.522 –> 01:55.043

              [SPEAKER_02]: I’m good, it’s great to have you here.

              01:55.083 –> 02:02.608

              [SPEAKER_02]: We don’t often get a Swedish business on the show, so it’s very cool to get to find out a bit about what’s going on with you all in Sweden.

              02:03.048 –> 02:07.051

              [SPEAKER_02]: But before we get into all of that, how did you get started in the world of E-commerce?

              02:07.671 –> 02:09.152

              [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that’s a great question.

              02:09.933 –> 02:20.820

              [SPEAKER_00]: One that I always, people usually ask, and I haven’t really put together the best answer to, but to make a long story short, my journey in E-commerce started way back in 2016.

              02:23.002 –> 02:29.888

              [SPEAKER_00]: When an acquaintance of mine made a killing selling stickers on Shopify and I thought, well, if he could do it, why can’t I do it?

              02:30.708 –> 02:31.789

              [SPEAKER_00]: And that’s kind of where it started.

              02:31.929 –> 02:35.172

              [SPEAKER_00]: And then it grew into a first and obsession and then a passion.

              02:36.433 –> 02:37.934

              [SPEAKER_00]: And now I’ve worked with it for 10 years.

              02:38.235 –> 02:39.215

              [SPEAKER_00]: It’s basically all I do.

              02:39.395 –> 02:40.536

              [SPEAKER_00]: I live and breathe the e-commerce.

              02:41.397 –> 02:44.480

              [SPEAKER_02]: So what other than cheese, what products have you sold over the years?

              02:45.087 –> 02:59.399

              [SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, back in those days, we were tested everything from jewelry to botches to to whatever we could come up with that without the algorithm but like but then as I transitioned into a serious role at an actual company at first I sold supplements.

              03:00.720 –> 03:16.274

              [SPEAKER_00]: at a supplement chain so I handled their BTC at first and then I took over the whole BTC BTC to be operation, the commerce there and ran both and then I transitioned over to the request five years ago now and I’ve been here ever since growing along with the company.

              03:17.188 –> 03:22.652

              [SPEAKER_02]: I was thinking, should I ask you, do you prefer shoes or supplements, but that’s a loaded question isn’t it, and your boss might listen to this.

              03:22.672 –> 03:24.093

              [SPEAKER_02]: So let’s not ask you that question.

              03:24.113 –> 03:25.574

              [SPEAKER_00]: I can go out of the answer.

              03:25.714 –> 03:26.795

              [SPEAKER_00]: I must prefer shoes.

              03:26.895 –> 03:31.038

              [SPEAKER_00]: Ever since I was a child, I’ve always been very, very style-interested.

              03:31.238 –> 03:32.479

              [SPEAKER_00]: So it’s just a perfect fit.

              03:33.159 –> 03:33.539

              [SPEAKER_02]: Excellent.

              03:33.559 –> 03:36.541

              [SPEAKER_02]: So when the sample sale happens, you’re first in the line.

              03:37.162 –> 03:42.786

              [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I really, I prefer it’s a huge perk having that early access to upcoming releases.

              03:43.563 –> 03:44.083

              [SPEAKER_02]: definitely.

              03:44.964 –> 03:51.989

              [SPEAKER_02]: That is one thing I definitely miss about not being clients side anymore is the ability to get your hands on the product at that point.

              03:53.170 –> 03:55.432

              [SPEAKER_02]: But this isn’t about my or your shopping habits.

              03:56.072 –> 03:59.174

              [SPEAKER_02]: So Douglas tell us a bit more about Merckworth’s.

              03:59.254 –> 04:01.876

              [SPEAKER_02]: Where in the world are you based and where are you selling to?

              04:02.597 –> 04:03.598

              [SPEAKER_00]: Another great question.

              04:03.738 –> 04:05.299

              [SPEAKER_00]: So we’re based out of Stockholm.

              04:05.439 –> 04:08.321

              [SPEAKER_00]: We’re we’re founded here right in the city.

              04:08.481 –> 04:10.603

              [SPEAKER_00]: I’ve been located here since the beginning.

              04:12.074 –> 04:20.040

              [SPEAKER_00]: Then we of course have our four stores across the world, but we sell essentially to every market where we have demand.

              04:20.281 –> 04:23.343

              [SPEAKER_00]: So we’re very international and very horizontal in our mindset.

              04:23.363 –> 04:35.032

              [SPEAKER_00]: They’re really trying to find early adopters across the board instead of, well, this is historically instead of drilling down and really starting to figure out how to gain major market sharing

              04:36.865 –> 04:45.592

              [SPEAKER_02]: I suppose that’s one of the challenges when you’re coming out of a country, the size of Sweden is there’s any so big you can grow within that country before you have to start looking overseas.

              04:46.533 –> 04:49.415

              [SPEAKER_02]: So how early on did the business go into Nastar?

              04:49.435 –> 04:53.198

              [SPEAKER_02]: Was it a day one strategy or a realisation a couple of years in?

              04:54.032 –> 04:57.234

              [SPEAKER_00]: So the realization, I mean, it was always there.

              04:57.435 –> 05:03.819

              [SPEAKER_00]: We were always open for international business, but we really pivoted after I joined the company and we did a data deep dive.

              05:04.740 –> 05:19.470

              [SPEAKER_00]: And just saw that the data point to us to the fact that we could get customers both overseas, of course, in the US, and Australia, and wherever, but also in other European countries for a lot, less money than we could in Sweden, because those early adopters in the shoe business at least back then.

              05:20.311 –> 05:24.653

              [SPEAKER_00]: We’re a lot easier to get to than the mass market appeal, push you as of our kind.

              05:25.633 –> 05:31.655

              [SPEAKER_02]: But you so it’s partly a cost of acquisition decision of comparing these countries and going actually.

              05:32.155 –> 05:34.716

              [SPEAKER_02]: That is where the lovely green pasture is.

              05:35.097 –> 05:36.037

              [SPEAKER_02]: Let’s go over there.

              05:36.577 –> 05:37.497

              [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, essentially.

              05:37.698 –> 05:41.759

              [SPEAKER_00]: Back then, I think we used to call it a horizontal scaling.

              05:42.980 –> 05:45.280

              [SPEAKER_00]: So just always trying to be a where the customer is.

              05:45.861 –> 05:48.142

              [SPEAKER_00]: And in our case, that was like finding the right.

              05:50.063 –> 06:00.993

              [SPEAKER_00]: niche groups in the right countries instead of just trying to build massively invest in building up like that mass market appeal that we’re now starting to achieve in Sweden.

              06:01.814 –> 06:09.459

              [SPEAKER_02]: So I’ve described in the intro that the product is shoes, but you’ve expanded into a couple of other product range that are kind of shoes adjacent as well.

              06:09.499 –> 06:13.681

              [SPEAKER_02]: So can you explain much better than I would a little bit about the product range?

              06:13.881 –> 06:21.226

              [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I mean, the founding idea was premium footwork without a premium price tag.

              06:21.966 –> 06:25.728

              [SPEAKER_00]: So we wanted to come out and fight the big British brands.

              06:26.008 –> 06:28.490

              [SPEAKER_00]: Essentially, the sales shoes that are very close in quality by

              06:30.571 –> 06:36.453

              [SPEAKER_00]: And that, of course, we came up with the most classic shoes that is possible at Panilofer and Oxford, and so forth.

              06:36.493 –> 06:40.694

              [SPEAKER_00]: But over time, we’ve kind of matured into a really broad array of shoes.

              06:40.714 –> 06:50.917

              [SPEAKER_00]: So now we offer everything from Black Pan and shoes for nights at the Opera to very contemporary areas, sneakers that are fit for essentially any occasion.

              06:51.617 –> 06:55.838

              [SPEAKER_02]: And then you’ve also then got the socks and accessories and other bits and pieces too.

              06:56.451 –> 06:57.172

              [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, of course.

              06:57.192 –> 07:10.943

              [SPEAKER_00]: And then we have our best selling socks or the first that’s a given cross selling product and then of course we have the shoetries that are we’re like the first thing we actually sold and then that grew into the company world today.

              07:11.823 –> 07:12.824

              [SPEAKER_02]: Wow, very cool.

              07:13.324 –> 07:15.666

              [SPEAKER_02]: And what does the team look like at

              07:17.097 –> 07:29.311

              [SPEAKER_00]: So I had office where it people now in the e-commerce team, it’s myself, and then we have one full-time support customer experience employee.

              07:29.731 –> 07:37.159

              [SPEAKER_00]: I took half a person that does logistics and customs because it also works in the supply chain team.

              07:38.020 –> 07:47.602

              [SPEAKER_00]: And then we have one person running supply chain and one person doing it, a joint retail and product development department, running that.

              07:48.282 –> 07:50.103

              [SPEAKER_00]: And then we have one person that does brand marketing.

              07:50.123 –> 07:51.023

              [SPEAKER_00]: And that, of course, I see.

              07:51.243 –> 07:54.304

              [SPEAKER_00]: So it’s a very lean team is crazy lean.

              07:54.324 –> 08:03.366

              [SPEAKER_02]: So that’s in-house, in-head office, everything, including customer service, but not including manufacturing or fulfillment.

              08:03.386 –> 08:05.306

              [SPEAKER_02]: That’d be a fair way of simplifying it.

              08:05.855 –> 08:17.903

              [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, essentially we of course we have partner factors where we work with instead of our own in-house at this this stage and then we do have a 3PL but yeah, I don’t know that we’re pretty much in-house.

              08:18.824 –> 08:30.612

              [SPEAKER_02]: And on your, within your micro e-commerce team, marketing team, are you doing everything or using agencies for Facebook ads, Google ads, email or is that all being done across

              08:34.305 –> 08:41.670

              [SPEAKER_00]: So I handle everything except Google and which we have outsourced because I just kind of be asked.

              08:41.710 –> 08:48.394

              [SPEAKER_00]: There’s too much optimization and a little time in the list and that’s the list fund and platform that is creative once.

              08:48.794 –> 08:51.316

              [SPEAKER_00]: So we kind of just offload of that at least for now.

              08:52.176 –> 09:05.444

              [SPEAKER_00]: And that’s working out fine for us, because we really appreciate having many hands in house and being that close to the data and seeing how our customers react to different kinds of creatives and like our brand at large.

              09:06.545 –> 09:17.871

              [SPEAKER_02]: And it’s kind of mind-blowing that you’re running a business of doing 10 million euros on eight people in head office, including the customer service and all the logistics and all

              09:22.429 –> 09:28.131

              [SPEAKER_02]: running substantial business across multiple different territories with that tiny team.

              09:28.812 –> 09:34.534

              [SPEAKER_02]: How do you, I mean, is that like a central goal of the business to keep the team small?

              09:35.114 –> 09:36.695

              [SPEAKER_02]: And if so, how do you achieve it?

              09:37.323 –> 10:01.782

              [SPEAKER_00]: In a great question, and yes, it is for us as like the North Star operationally for us as to, I mean, at the beginning of the year we kind of landed in the fact that I think we can probably release double, it’s not more without adding any headcount at this stage because we’ve always been listening focused on optimizing processes and removing friction, which has been, of course, hard, historically.

              10:02.502 –> 10:10.967

              [SPEAKER_00]: But now with everything that AI is enabling, we’ve just been able to automate and fix so many things in our business that I’ve been block-rissed before.

              10:11.627 –> 10:16.750

              [SPEAKER_02]: Does it like a blazer sharp focus on how do we systematize this?

              10:16.810 –> 10:17.930

              [SPEAKER_02]: How do we systematize this?

              10:17.950 –> 10:26.535

              [SPEAKER_02]: Which might mean AI, I might mean automation, might mean simplification, but it’s that reduced the amount of time someone has to spend on it, basically.

              10:26.879 –> 10:32.101

              [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the essential idea is that no one wants to do basic work or at least they should it want to.

              10:32.542 –> 10:46.668

              [SPEAKER_00]: And by fixing that, we can instead let the people that work here actually spend their time on things that provide value and it is fun to do instead of spending time reading invoices manually, we can just scan them and like have the system take over things like that.

              10:46.788 –> 10:50.230

              [SPEAKER_00]: And then the same thing with customer support, I mean that’s for us the most obvious.

              10:51.473 –> 11:05.384

              [SPEAKER_00]: Touchpoint where customer facing AI has been the first like the first AI we deployed in since we could very easily at least automate the low hanging fruit questions about Oh, how does this shoe work with these pants?

              11:05.744 –> 11:19.195

              [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, a human doesn’t actually have to respond to that and the customer Of course they value the human touch there about what they’re really seeking is reassurance and if an automated reply within one minute of the email Can achieve that then that it’s a net positive

              11:20.074 –> 11:36.200

              [SPEAKER_02]: not just the customer service questions around where’s my parcel, which is often where people start with automation and chat boards, but the will this look good on me, which I think people would assume is a more difficult thing to automate, but presumably not.

              11:37.059 –> 12:04.231

              [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I mean, it is, and it was, and that’s kind of, so this whole automated income education thing, income conjunction with us rolling out on-site AI search as a pilot project about a year ago, kind of kicked off our first reel, or gave us like the first nugget information we needed to really start on this journey, because when the on-site search didn’t function as well as we thought it would, it came really apparent that, okay,

              12:06.796 –> 12:21.546

              [SPEAKER_00]: So the product descriptions, the actual information we have on the website about everything isn’t, doesn’t cover enough subjects and it isn’t structured in a way that allows all al alams to break it down and understand what this should really is and what it’s for and what it would work with.

              12:22.287 –> 12:29.972

              [SPEAKER_00]: So we’re working really hard on building that out because I mean sure it’s it’s it’s it’s sexy to talk about it in the

              12:31.673 –> 12:37.016

              [SPEAKER_00]: But just like good SEO used to video or still is, it’s just good customer experience.

              12:37.477 –> 12:40.559

              [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you’re cycling fast, navigation, functioning, and everything like that.

              12:41.219 –> 12:45.822

              [SPEAKER_00]: Optimizing for LLAM is essentially just optimizing for the customer journey anyway.

              12:46.022 –> 12:46.903

              [SPEAKER_00]: So it’s like a win-win.

              12:47.732 –> 13:01.436

              [SPEAKER_02]: Had a feeling we were going to get onto the data underlying the AI because I was assuming you’d spend a lot of time on it, so I’m glad you bought it up and it does strike me as if you go through the effort of getting all that much that data right.

              13:02.376 –> 13:08.098

              [SPEAKER_02]: The obvious things first things to do with it are site search and support chatbot.

              13:08.858 –> 13:15.669

              [SPEAKER_02]: You know, because they’ve suddenly got everything they need to deliver for the customer, so I wouldn’t wouldn’t you do them.

              13:15.910 –> 13:18.174

              [SPEAKER_02]: So you started with those.

              13:18.754 –> 13:19.736

              [SPEAKER_02]: Where did you go next?

              13:21.681 –> 13:27.963

              [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the next and the like the ultra long-term scope and vision is, of course, off-site.

              13:28.324 –> 13:37.987

              [SPEAKER_00]: So how do we place an inshagivity in cloud, or in in Gemini, or whichever model people use to search, how does Google rank our content?

              13:38.007 –> 13:45.010

              [SPEAKER_00]: So that’s the long-term goal, but it’s a lot harder to optimize when you can’t really measure the outcome in a reliable way.

              13:45.870 –> 13:49.512

              [SPEAKER_00]: So we’re just trying to do both at the same time because they both feed into the same core

              13:51.238 –> 13:56.300

              [SPEAKER_02]: It does strike me that if you’re getting that, especially the product information, right.

              13:57.240 –> 14:01.362

              [SPEAKER_02]: And by which I don’t just mean the sizes, I mean the richer product data as well.

              14:01.822 –> 14:08.825

              [SPEAKER_02]: Then it’s supporting your use of AI as a customer service tool, be that search, be that bots, be that emails, whatever it might be.

              14:09.385 –> 14:14.147

              [SPEAKER_02]: It’s also supporting your ranking in AI search.

              14:15.647 –> 14:17.988

              [SPEAKER_02]: and it’s supporting your SEO as well.

              14:18.428 –> 14:21.669

              [SPEAKER_02]: And it’s supporting credit customer experience if it’s customer facing data.

              14:22.029 –> 14:37.855

              [SPEAKER_02]: So it’s kind of just such an obvious thing to improve, because it’s, yeah, yeah, you can’t categorically measure the improvement it’s having on the AI search at the moment, but it’s improving so many different areas of the business all at the same time through one project.

              14:38.707 –> 14:52.577

              [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, I don’t like in a business like ours where our whole core business idea is going up against like a hundred-year-old heritage giants In the in the man’s shoeware game being able to be this fast And move this fast in this question.

              14:52.597 –> 14:56.220

              [SPEAKER_00]: It really gives us an edge because we know that our competitors aren’t doing this

              14:57.000 –> 15:09.629

              [SPEAKER_00]: which means that the field is wide open so any improvement we make is going to be a huge leap and like, immediately it’s going to be a moon landing essentially for us and that’s kind of what makes it so exciting.

              15:10.489 –> 15:19.475

              [SPEAKER_00]: But then of course the hard part there is and how do you actually understand what the user is asking because that in the if you really assume how to look at it what the

              15:22.117 –> 15:47.590

              [SPEAKER_00]: is essentially based on what the AI thinks the prompter wants to see right and to get there our content has to be able to kind of answer those questions and I’m bringing a bit of another word there so we’re working with one partner there they work really hard with like off-site measuring what kind of conversations are going on about our products okay how if people are are looking for black panel offers which questions are they asking what people saying on Reddit

              15:48.630 –> 15:57.305

              [SPEAKER_00]: where are the gaps between that we have and what people want to know and then that of course instantly fits into just an improved on-site experience.

              15:58.240 –> 16:06.509

              [SPEAKER_02]: As you talk about it, it makes it, it helps me remember that we are now becoming quite evolved in how we approach these things.

              16:06.529 –> 16:09.312

              [SPEAKER_02]: You know, there’s a research process that’s pretty standard.

              16:09.332 –> 16:13.116

              [SPEAKER_02]: There’s a where we put it in how we handle it, that’s now become pretty standard.

              16:13.637 –> 16:20.004

              [SPEAKER_02]: Have you seen, I know, it’s hard to track, but if you’ve seen this starting to pay off in terms of traffic and sales, already.

              16:20.728 –> 16:25.209

              [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, so as I say, it’s super hard to measure because we only get a fraction of the data.

              16:25.910 –> 16:32.051

              [SPEAKER_00]: The referral, like the referral pointers and UDM tags are usually stripped from a land traffic.

              16:32.452 –> 16:38.313

              [SPEAKER_00]: But we can still see like that the small fraction we can see, we see a 400% increase year over year.

              16:38.373 –> 16:42.655

              [SPEAKER_00]: And that is of course both combined like overall LM usage going up.

              16:44.162 –> 16:51.327

              [SPEAKER_00]: but the graph core is very well to when we started really doing making big leaps here on the on the content side.

              16:52.031 –> 17:13.426

              [SPEAKER_02]: because whilst the traffic may be, you know, the usage of LLMs is going up by the consumer, at the same time what’s also going up is the sophistication of the LLM model and as we, if we assume it follows the path that Google took, it’s going to become harder to rank well as it becomes more sophisticated and then you’ve also got more people waking up to the fact that

              17:15.367 –> 17:21.534

              [SPEAKER_02]: So it’s I think if you can if you can track the same growth as LLM usage at the moment, you’re probably ahead of the curve.

              17:22.015 –> 17:24.377

              [SPEAKER_02]: I would have thought based on a finger in the air.

              17:25.753 –> 17:27.494

              [SPEAKER_02]: rather than precise data, but I think.

              17:28.055 –> 17:31.157

              [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, and it’s super hard.

              17:31.297 –> 17:38.823

              [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, we were starting to get anecdotal evidence, like someone came up to me that I commented and said, oh, I heard about your brand when it started.

              17:38.863 –> 17:41.925

              [SPEAKER_00]: And then I found you guys, I’m shetched you, but they were looking for a sweet spray.

              17:41.945 –> 17:45.688

              [SPEAKER_00]: So I went to the store and I bought a spray, which was a lot of fun.

              17:46.409 –> 17:50.072

              [SPEAKER_00]: She had no idea that we enabled a woman as well, which makes it even more interesting.

              17:51.323 –> 18:02.330

              [SPEAKER_00]: We have no idea we have like we’re doing so much work on this side of things and we somehow managed to plays really well for something as generic as a Swede spray which is super fun to see.

              18:03.148 –> 18:09.754

              [SPEAKER_02]: And changing tax slightly, but going back to the lean team idea and how AI fits into that.

              18:10.754 –> 18:18.721

              [SPEAKER_02]: How are you deciding which part of the business to test AI on next or to automate next?

              18:18.741 –> 18:26.707

              [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I would assume you must have endless time sheeting going on or like a whiteboard where you write down something that’s annoying you day to day.

              18:27.588 –> 18:36.972

              [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there’s lots of theories for how you go about working out what’s the next thing you should automate, reduce the human time in, etc., etc., but how do you go about doing it?

              18:37.012 –> 18:41.174

              [SPEAKER_02]: Is there a big strategy or is it more of a vision and everybody does it their own way?

              18:41.864 –> 18:55.296

              [SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, it’s a great question and I don’t really have an answer to quite yet because we started really data into the six weeks ago, but in that time, we’ve kind of completely reworked how we do customs, how we do stuff like that.

              18:55.357 –> 19:06.006

              [SPEAKER_00]: So, of course, we had a couple of low-hanging food things we could attach, but now we’re looking at, okay, how do we continue this work, how do we do this over a longer time it’s bad, how do we really prioritize?

              19:06.767 –> 19:21.837

              [SPEAKER_00]: The model we’re trying to turn in now is that I started playing around and then I had that moment where I just clicked and I understood okay this is probably what’s possible and then I’m continuing to drill down and now I’m trying to help my colleagues to have the same kind of epiphany.

              19:22.997 –> 19:39.903

              [SPEAKER_00]: On the product side, we’re now super AI-heavy in the ideation phase, we’re trying to figure out the design to view different material options, because in fiscal selling fiscal goods sampling takes a lot of time right, because you have to have it made and then ship, then you have to have another round.

              19:40.543 –> 19:49.666

              [SPEAKER_00]: Now we can, instead of going from a sketch to like a sample guess from the factory, we can send the final design to the factory right away in less than a week.

              19:50.526 –> 19:54.113

              [SPEAKER_00]: of coming up with a concept so it’s really fast tracking that side of the business as well.

              19:54.798 –> 19:59.280

              [SPEAKER_02]: wouldn’t have assumed it would help in that space, but I can totally see how it would.

              19:59.520 –> 20:14.927

              [SPEAKER_02]: And I love how you’re saying about how you are, you’re kind of like the person on the front foot with AI and then it’s key for the business to have you up-skilling everybody around you, as she make those decisions.

              20:15.047 –> 20:18.028

              [SPEAKER_02]: So they can then see how it can apply in their areas.

              20:18.508 –> 20:22.130

              [SPEAKER_02]: Personally, I find it difficult to work out which bit next to do because I can see,

              20:23.170 –> 20:25.731

              [SPEAKER_02]: like there’s a huge opportunity there, that bit’s difficult.

              20:26.011 –> 20:30.673

              [SPEAKER_02]: But I can think that would be really hard to automate to AI to improve.

              20:31.333 –> 20:36.916

              [SPEAKER_02]: And then we’ve already bought this tool which could solve that problem but that’s a tiny problem but we’ve already got the tech to do it.

              20:37.696 –> 20:42.478

              [SPEAKER_02]: Or I saw a great webinar yesterday that showed me this and I got really excited about it.

              20:42.938 –> 20:47.100

              [SPEAKER_02]: How do you, you know because I like you said there was some really obvious quick wins.

              20:48.000 –> 20:56.326

              [SPEAKER_02]: but you can tend to get past those quite quickly and then it’s very easy to get distracted and spend a lot of time optimising something which there was no benefit in optimising a tool.

              20:56.746 –> 21:01.189

              [SPEAKER_02]: So have you got any tips on how to navigate that mindset?

              21:01.209 –> 21:04.512

              [SPEAKER_02]: I don’t think there’s a perfect way to do it but anything you found that’s helpful that works.

              21:05.345 –> 21:13.292

              [SPEAKER_00]: So for me personally, in my very broad role, the way I scan the field right now is, I always try to look at cost savings.

              21:13.492 –> 21:15.654

              [SPEAKER_00]: Like, that’s the easiest, the lowest hanging fruit, right?

              21:16.355 –> 21:21.179

              [SPEAKER_00]: And that’s why we’re now not using any external development consultant anymore.

              21:21.920 –> 21:30.927

              [SPEAKER_00]: I’m just avoiding everything on the website, which is, I mean, it has improved the output quality and the speed at least 10x from what we used to have with our offshore.

              21:31.668 –> 21:44.858

              [SPEAKER_00]: consultants that that was like an obvious first win and now we’re just looking at okay how many hours does this take and the verse how we say this to automate I mean it’s I don’t have a more sophisticated approach than that right now

              21:45.852 –> 21:48.934

              [SPEAKER_02]: But I don’t know that it necessarily needs to be that more sophisticated.

              21:48.954 –> 21:52.416

              [SPEAKER_02]: If you talk about money and time, those are the two biggest costs for any business.

              21:53.076 –> 21:59.099

              [SPEAKER_02]: So if you’re tracking those, then you’re presumably pretty well ahead of things.

              21:59.159 –> 22:05.943

              [SPEAKER_02]: Now, you also mentioned Douglas, it’s all right to pick your brains on this, that you’re running all the Facebook ads in-house.

              22:06.503 –> 22:06.683

              [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

              22:07.003 –> 22:11.986

              [SPEAKER_02]: Which I know a lot of businesses are on the fence about at the moment.

              22:12.006 –> 22:13.527

              [SPEAKER_02]: Where do you put the creative production?

              22:13.587 –> 22:19.090

              [SPEAKER_02]: Where do you put the management of the actual ad account in house outhouse, work it all out?

              22:19.150 –> 22:21.571

              [SPEAKER_02]: You know, there’s lots of different opinions.

              22:21.611 –> 22:29.736

              [SPEAKER_02]: So tell us about your rationale for keeping it in house and how that’s how you’re making that really deliver for you, especially

              22:32.163 –> 22:53.016

              [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I mean for us, it all began with cost like everything else, but over time we kind of quite early we realized that after taking in-house, being that close to performance data and having the content production in-house just really allows us to understand the customer better and to really work on and continuously improve our brand.

              22:53.376 –> 22:56.578

              [SPEAKER_00]: It pushes us to catch friction points

              22:58.079 –> 23:05.484

              [SPEAKER_00]: full of questions that people have about our products and figure out how to respond to them, which we really wouldn’t be doing.

              23:05.524 –> 23:11.589

              [SPEAKER_00]: If I just delegate it to an agency and do it to a being in-house, we’re now also looking at like everyone else.

              23:11.649 –> 23:14.190

              [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, how can we, we need to 10X or conduct production?

              23:14.210 –> 23:16.072

              [SPEAKER_00]: How can we do that without breaking the bank?

              23:17.232 –> 23:20.555

              [SPEAKER_00]: So it’s a huge challenge for us, but it’s a lot of fun as well.

              23:21.405 –> 23:33.175

              [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, there’s the cost saving, but there’s also that all the nuances of the customer behavior that you’re able to feed back into the wider business is, I’m guessing with where you talk about it, it’s not being out, so I said he’s time soon, is it?

              23:33.455 –> 23:34.896

              [SPEAKER_02]: Do you do much value coming out?

              23:35.436 –> 23:47.286

              [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, for us it’s key, essentially, since we’re so online heavy, being close to the way the brand is perceived, has been key for our continued growth at the rate we’re growing.

              23:50.459 –> 23:55.084

              [SPEAKER_01]: The Commerce Masterplan is supported by some of the greatest companies in the e-commerce sector.

              23:55.204 –> 23:56.645

              [SPEAKER_01]: Here’s a reminder of who they are.

              24:07.949 –> 24:14.999

              [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I love this section because because me and our listeners some really quick ideas for taking our businesses to the next level, Douglas, are you ready for the top tips?

              24:15.740 –> 24:16.020

              [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

              24:16.701 –> 24:17.943

              [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, the book top tip.

              24:18.023 –> 24:24.653

              [SPEAKER_02]: If everyone listening to this podcast, agreed to take Friday off and read a book to make their business better, which book would you recommend?

              24:25.715 –> 24:26.916

              [SPEAKER_00]: That is such a great question.

              24:27.216 –> 24:47.389

              [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, sadly, the way my schedule looks this this, I don’t really have any relevant business books anymore, but the thing I find that works the best for me, then especially actually if it is on a Friday, is just living work with that one issue you can’t solve on your mind and then letting it brew at the back of your mind overnight.

              24:47.469 –> 24:50.771

              [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you cook a nice dinner, maybe have a glass of wine and put on some nice music.

              24:51.752 –> 24:58.916

              [SPEAKER_00]: and just let some lean back into the weekend and then you should let it bridge with that epiphany that I need to take things at the next level.

              24:59.816 –> 25:03.178

              [SPEAKER_02]: I am letting the sub-conscious work it out for you whilst you do something else.

              25:03.859 –> 25:05.459

              [SPEAKER_02]: Awesome tip, definitely.

              25:05.499 –> 25:07.260

              [SPEAKER_02]: I totally agree with you on that one.

              25:08.181 –> 25:13.544

              [SPEAKER_02]: The traffic top tip, which marketing method do you either prize over all others or think doesn’t get the press it deserves.

              25:14.326 –> 25:26.556

              [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that’s a great question, and this is going to be like an omnischanal brick and motor plus online specific tip, but a lot of people are probably under investing in their retail space if they have it.

              25:27.356 –> 25:35.963

              [SPEAKER_00]: And like by now, we have really good data on this, but the value of a storefront and that storefront window for online sales over time is just immense.

              25:36.223 –> 25:41.847

              [SPEAKER_00]: Like our fiscal presence feeds into all my presence, which brings back people back into the brick and mortar.

              25:42.748 –> 25:52.357

              [SPEAKER_00]: So really looking into and seeing if you can find those patterns and then trying to up the game in the way you function in the physical world has been just a huge step for us.

              25:52.377 –> 25:59.543

              [SPEAKER_00]: I mean that’s what we have three huge screens on the second floor of our New York store blasting out, brand content every day.

              26:00.144 –> 26:05.289

              [SPEAKER_00]: Even though we cost a lot of money for us, it’s just been driving crazy growth in the surrounding area.

              26:06.283 –> 26:13.509

              [SPEAKER_02]: love that because so often people are doing a collect that physical store and just see that you know, allocate the costs in arguably the wrong places.

              26:13.589 –> 26:14.931

              [SPEAKER_02]: So I think that’s such a good one.

              26:14.951 –> 26:22.537

              [SPEAKER_02]: And anyone who wants to see what Mark Quest stores look like there’s some great photography of them on the website.

              26:22.877 –> 26:27.662

              [SPEAKER_02]: Having had a look at it earlier today, I am not surprised Douglas mentioned that as being a key traffic driver.

              26:28.342 –> 26:33.807

              [SPEAKER_02]: Tooltop tip, maybe a collaboration tool, a social media plug-in, a phone app or just a way of working.

              26:34.167 –> 26:38.471

              [SPEAKER_02]: Is there a call little tool you use to make you and your team more efficient from day to day?

              26:38.812 –> 26:42.255

              [SPEAKER_02]: Now Douglas, I’m expecting something impressive here after all we’ve said already today.

              26:42.275 –> 26:53.885

              [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I’m going to hit everyone with a 2026 cliché, but like my one number one tip, especially if you’re finding it harder to get started with the whole AI.

              26:54.866 –> 27:12.245

              [SPEAKER_00]: the AI by coding and everything like that internally it’s just to find one small task that you do repeatedly that you spend time on and then just try to make it make an app for it in lovable it’s not going to work the first time I had to do three or four iterations

              27:13.206 –> 27:19.569

              [SPEAKER_00]: But just finding that one thing, one simple little process to try and automate and work on in your free time.

              27:20.189 –> 27:23.610

              [SPEAKER_00]: Because once it works, you’re going to have that boat with clicks.

              27:24.251 –> 27:27.332

              [SPEAKER_00]: And it’s going to feel like you just won the World Cup essentially.

              27:28.148 –> 27:41.154

              [SPEAKER_02]: I think we a lot of people are falling into the trap of approaching AI as though they’re about to create Michelangelo’s David on their first attempt and it’s like, no, you need sort of with plasticine.

              27:41.434 –> 27:46.917

              [SPEAKER_02]: That’s how you, if you want to create Michelangelo’s David, you need to start off sculpting with plasticine for a bit.

              27:47.437 –> 27:58.524

              [SPEAKER_02]: And it’s like, so I love your tip because it’s like, pick one small, simple thing, learn the basics, and then you can start working up to your micro-angelo’s David at the end of the complex project.

              27:59.064 –> 28:05.308

              [SPEAKER_00]: And it could be, as is just, okay, I have to read this as we file and translate it to this other format.

              28:06.088 –> 28:10.151

              [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, just figuring out how to do that even like inside of cloud or shenchipiti.

              28:11.073 –> 28:18.496

              [SPEAKER_00]: or whatever, it’s a great first step because you kind of need to play around with it right to really be able to dig your claws into it.

              28:19.236 –> 28:19.796

              [SPEAKER_02]: Definitely.

              28:20.356 –> 28:25.418

              [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, the carbon top tip, what’s your favourite way to reduce the carbon footprint of an e-commerce store?

              28:26.241 –> 28:29.704

              [SPEAKER_00]: And I’m in here again, you know, this is coming from both.

              28:30.284 –> 28:33.727

              [SPEAKER_00]: I cover for print and a commercial standpoint because I do really care about both.

              28:34.588 –> 28:38.051

              [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I’ve, I’ve dropped a lot of second hand, but this suit is second hand.

              28:39.372 –> 28:46.578

              [SPEAKER_00]: But for us, like the biggest contributor to our common footprint that is completely unnecessary because we have a very slim supply chain.

              28:47.118 –> 28:49.821

              [SPEAKER_00]: But it’s, it’s grading issues with our shoes.

              28:50.121 –> 28:54.264

              [SPEAKER_00]: So unnecessary returns is one of the the the the the best.

              28:55.209 –> 29:09.947

              [SPEAKER_00]: things to work through both because it’s going to save you a lot of money in locked up stock and logistics costs back and forth, but it’s also going to save a lot of emissions that are completely unnecessary because I mean no one buys because they want to return right.

              29:10.628 –> 29:14.292

              [SPEAKER_00]: some people do, but you can’t give rid of those, but most people don’t want the wrong size.

              29:14.392 –> 29:25.683

              [SPEAKER_00]: So ensuring that your size guide is right, or that you have accurate pictures on your website, whatever it may be, to try and reduce that return rate is, it’s really key the way I said.

              29:27.143 –> 29:31.789

              [SPEAKER_02]: the whole piece of helping the customer by the right product in the first place.

              29:32.230 –> 29:35.314

              [SPEAKER_02]: So there doesn’t have to be a second journey of the parcel basically.

              29:35.394 –> 29:36.636

              [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly and it’s good for everyone.

              29:36.656 –> 29:38.158

              [SPEAKER_00]: The customer has a better experience.

              29:38.478 –> 29:43.205

              [SPEAKER_00]: There’s less emissions and you have a better profitability at the on the older level.

              29:43.978 –> 29:49.861

              [SPEAKER_02]: I’m sure it’s the case you get a better customer lifetime value of the customers, not having to go through the hassle of a return as well.

              29:49.961 –> 29:52.123

              [SPEAKER_02]: So, an awesome tip.

              29:52.203 –> 29:54.804

              [SPEAKER_02]: Always love it when someone brings up returns at this point in the show.

              29:55.545 –> 30:01.048

              [SPEAKER_02]: Douglas, before we say goodbye, could you please let the listeners know where they can find you and your business on the web and social media?

              30:01.697 –> 30:05.421

              [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, this is the part I’ve been scared of with the name of Swedish is this.

              30:05.562 –> 30:14.672

              [SPEAKER_00]: I’m gonna have to try and figure out how to say it at the end, but it’s Mirkvis, so it’s MYRQVIST.com.

              30:15.433 –> 30:18.497

              [SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully, that’s you’re able to pause that.

              30:19.064 –> 30:26.466

              [SPEAKER_02]: We will add links to that, obviously in the show notes, and wherever you’re watching it, you can see it’s felt because it will be in the name of the episode.

              30:26.606 –> 30:28.827

              [SPEAKER_02]: So, a Merquist, as fine.

              30:29.687 –> 30:32.908

              [SPEAKER_02]: Merquist.com to go and find out all about it.

              30:32.928 –> 30:38.030

              [SPEAKER_02]: And I believe Douglass, you’ve got a special deal for the audience if they want to check out your shoes.

              30:38.630 –> 30:45.312

              [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if you’re interested in checking out what we do for all listeners, use code master plan for 10% off.

              30:45.392 –> 30:50.713

              [SPEAKER_00]: Sharp shoes, socks, belts, shoe care, whatever you may need, both online and in our stores.

              30:51.694 –> 30:54.054

              [SPEAKER_00]: Just stop by and have a chat if nothing else.

              30:54.694 –> 30:55.015

              [SPEAKER_02]: Brilliant.

              30:55.335 –> 30:57.335

              [SPEAKER_02]: Douglas, thank you so much for coming on the show.

              30:57.355 –> 31:05.017

              [SPEAKER_02]: It’s been fascinating chatting with you and learning how you’re approaching keeping your business so lean and you’re marketing and everything else.

              31:05.057 –> 31:06.078

              [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for being here.

              31:06.578 –> 31:07.258

              [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for having me.

              31:13.088 –> 31:26.634

              [SPEAKER_02]: resonating to hear how Merquist have set themselves the goal of remaining a head office team of just eight as they double to ten million euro turnover over the next few years.

              31:26.734 –> 31:28.075

              [SPEAKER_02]: I think they might just make it.

              31:28.175 –> 31:33.878

              [SPEAKER_02]: It seems like they’re doing all the right things, and really interesting to hear how they’re approaching

              31:34.898 –> 31:58.017

              [SPEAKER_02]: using AI to help them achieve that goal, but also the approach to the meta-ads and deciding initially to keep those in-house because of the cost saving, but then also the alignment with the creative team who are in-house, which gives them the flexibility to double down on what’s working, but also gives them all that new-one-state are coming back out of it that they can feed in to

              31:59.558 –> 32:01.200

              [SPEAKER_02]: thoroughly enjoyed our chat with Douglas.

              32:01.220 –> 32:02.021

              [SPEAKER_02]: I hope you did too.

              32:02.341 –> 32:08.488

              [SPEAKER_02]: You get your hands on our notes from this episode, including the top tips and links we mentioned by heading over to ecommercemasterpland.com.

              32:09.008 –> 32:17.057

              [SPEAKER_02]: You could also use our direct episode short link that’s ECMP.info forward slash the number of this episode to get to the right page of the website.

              32:17.557 –> 32:20.881

              [SPEAKER_02]: When you get there, why not add yourself to our newsletter list as well?

              32:21.401 –> 32:30.529

              [SPEAKER_02]: If you like this episode, then make sure you check out Episode 367, where I’m chatting with Ash Hubbard from Grants and Shoes, which really builds on this episode.

              32:31.109 –> 32:38.455

              [SPEAKER_02]: And if you want more on fashion, then head to ECMP.info for all the fashion episodes on the website.

              32:39.295 –> 32:43.457

              [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for tuning into this and every episode of the e-commerce mass plan podcast.

              32:43.858 –> 32:55.863

              [SPEAKER_02]: We bring you a new interview every week because we want to inspire and help e-commerce business owners like you, to succeed and thrive with your business, including encouraging businesses and consumers to make more sustainable buying decisions.

              32:56.824 –> 33:02.107

              [SPEAKER_02]: So, if you know someone this show can help, please tell them to listen to the e-commerce mass plan podcast.

              33:02.527 –> 33:04.968

              [SPEAKER_02]: Over Great Week, don’t forget to keep optimizing.

              33:08.155 –> 33:11.478

              [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for listening to the e-commerce Master Plan podcast.

              33:11.919 –> 33:16.784

              [SPEAKER_01]: Find out more at e-commercemasterplanned.com slash podcast.

              34 min
            • eCommerce MasterPlan | 601: Scaling Impact: How Elvis & Kresse Turned Waste Into a Thriving Regenerative Brand

              Kresse Wesling CBE is the co-founder at Elvis and Kresse, the designers, manufacturers, and sellers of their range of sustainable and ethically produced luxury accessories and homewares. Founded in 2005 to rescue London’s decommissioned fire-hose, they now sell via their Shopify site and wholesale. They donate 50% of their profits to charity – and have donated nearly £500,000 to date, AND saved over 315 tonnes of materials from landfill. 

               

              Since joining us four years ago, Kresse and her team have taken their mission to a whole new level. In this conversation, she shares how they’re building a regenerative business that restores ecosystems, creates new revenue streams, and challenges traditional thinking about growth, sustainability, and long-term success. 

               

              Hit PLAY to hear: 

              • How Elvis & Kresse turned a sustainability mission into a regenerative business model 
              • Why they spent 5 years building a vineyard before earning a single penny from it 
              • The surprising checklist they use before launching products from new waste streams 
              • How purpose-driven brands can create growth opportunities competitors miss 
              • Kresse’s advice for finding a marketing agency that actually delivers results 
              • Why “a business is just a group of people and a series of decisions” could change how you think about growth forever 

                •  

                Key timestamps to dive straight in: 

                [04:06] Sustainability goals on the farm 

                [09:14] Embracing regenerative farming practices 

                [10:48] Criteria for choosing projects 

                [13:46] Concerns about microplastic pollution 

                [16:10] Corporate responsibility and transparency 

                [19:34] Wine production practices and additives 

                [24:07] Struggling with rapid changes 

                [28:28] Listen to Kresse’s Top Tips! 

                 

                Full episode notes here: https://ecmp.info/601

                —

                Download our ebook… https://ecmp.info/ebook 500 Tips to Increase Your Profits

                Get all the links and resources we mention and join our email list at https://ecmp.info

                Love the show? Chloe would love your feedback – leave a review here: https://ecmp.info/review or reply to the episode QandA on Spotify.

                Interested in being a Sponsor? go here: https://ecmp.info/sponsor

                Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

                Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

                WEBVTT

                00:00.556 –> 00:02.177

                [SPEAKER_00]: A business can design products, okay?

                00:02.437 –> 00:10.760

                [SPEAKER_00]: We design products, but we can also design the business of function as a good actor to function as something that gives more than it takes.

                00:11.060 –> 00:13.340

                [SPEAKER_00]: And that’s to me what being regenerative means.

                00:13.581 –> 00:18.662

                [SPEAKER_00]: We’ve lost our sense of wonder and imagination if we think a business can only do one thing well.

                00:18.942 –> 00:22.043

                [SPEAKER_00]: After all, a business is just a group of people in a series of decisions.

                00:22.284 –> 00:23.344

                [SPEAKER_00]: So why not make better ones?

                00:26.014 –> 00:28.418

                [SPEAKER_01]: It’s the e-commerce master plan podcast.

                00:28.959 –> 00:33.045

                [SPEAKER_01]: Here to help you solve your marketing problems and grow your e-commerce business.

                00:33.566 –> 00:41.358

                [SPEAKER_01]: Cutting through the hive to bring you inspiration and advice from the e-commerce sector and beyond, here’s your host, Chloe Thomas.

                00:44.432 –> 00:45.513

                [SPEAKER_02]: Hello and welcome.

                00:45.533 –> 00:46.675

                [SPEAKER_02]: It’s great to have you here.

                00:46.735 –> 00:53.463

                [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for hitting play and choosing to listen to one of our inspiring guests and inspiring is the word for this one.

                00:53.503 –> 00:57.608

                [SPEAKER_02]: We are catching up with a past guest as part of our 10 year celebrations.

                00:58.389 –> 00:59.009

                [SPEAKER_02]: We are.

                00:59.730 –> 01:09.492

                [SPEAKER_02]: Talking someone who we lost, last caught up with in 2022, who runs, I think the most sustainable e-commerce business I’ve ever come across.

                01:09.752 –> 01:26.277

                [SPEAKER_02]: I think with waste products, creating luxury product that they sell and since we lost caught up, they’ve expanded that into a farm, creating products that they will be selling imminently back on the website as well and that’s doing huge amounts

                01:28.337 –> 01:49.565

                [SPEAKER_02]: Chrissy is a hugely inspiring person, but we are also going to be sharing some nuggets and bits of advice around e-commerce as well, so make sure you stick around for the top tips where they’ll be a very cool kind of influencer affiliate partnership E tip hard to classify but very powerful if you can do it right so make sure you listen to the end.

                01:55.364 –> 02:02.130

                [SPEAKER_02]: And now to introduce our special guest, Cressey Wezzling, CBE is the co-founder at Elvis and Cressey.

                02:02.511 –> 02:09.257

                [SPEAKER_02]: The designers, manufacturers, and sellers of their range of sustainable and ethically produced luxury accessories and homewares.

                02:09.778 –> 02:17.225

                [SPEAKER_02]: Founded in 2005 to rescue London’s decommissioned fire hose, they now sell via their Shopify site and wholesale.

                02:17.625 –> 02:28.356

                [SPEAKER_02]: The donate 50% of their profits to charity and have donated nearly half a million pounds to date, and saved over 315 tons of materials from landfill.

                02:28.777 –> 02:29.518

                [SPEAKER_02]: Hello, Chrissy.

                02:29.958 –> 02:30.859

                [SPEAKER_02]: Hi, how are you doing?

                02:31.420 –> 02:35.144

                [SPEAKER_02]: I’m good and it’s so lovely to have you back on the show again.

                02:35.204 –> 02:36.685

                [SPEAKER_02]: I know your episode was one that

                02:37.410 –> 02:44.914

                [SPEAKER_02]: kind of lurked around my brain for many, many months afterwards reminding me of things that you’d said, so it’s really cool to have you back on the show.

                02:45.334 –> 02:48.916

                [SPEAKER_02]: It’s been four years, so how have the last few years been?

                02:49.676 –> 02:50.537

                [SPEAKER_00]: They’ve been kind of…

                02:51.193 –> 03:11.724

                [SPEAKER_00]: wild and amazing actually we we I think when we last spoke uh we had just decided to move everything to a farm and we’re in the midst of doing all of the work here and the work has been immense you know there was seven buildings it’s ironically called new barns farm it should have been called worst it barns in the world farm

                03:12.454 –> 03:27.865

                [SPEAKER_00]: It, yeah, seven buildings that all needed rescuing failed septic system, a landscape that it was registered as grade three to grade the past year because not the previous under, but the owner before had sold the top soil along with the turf.

                03:28.325 –> 03:28.626

                [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

                03:28.686 –> 03:34.570

                [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, pretty much in as bad condition as you could get and it just doesn’t look like that today today.

                03:34.710 –> 03:36.631

                [SPEAKER_00]: It looks absolutely spectacular and.

                03:38.150 –> 03:47.137

                [SPEAKER_00]: That is because of a little bit, I guess, to bring it back into help and to deliver on our regenerative mission.

                03:47.237 –> 03:52.521

                [SPEAKER_00]: So what, you know, we came to the farm because we thought that the business was a great business.

                03:52.881 –> 03:57.665

                [SPEAKER_00]: It didn’t does wonderful things, but we knew that the how could be improved.

                03:58.265 –> 04:06.370

                [SPEAKER_00]: we always want to push the boundary and I think a lot of businesses might think that climate change in biodiversity loss just aren’t there problem.

                04:07.010 –> 04:23.240

                [SPEAKER_00]: But for us, we thought, how can we fold those challenges in to how we run the business and to improve and to really say, can we be exponentially better with water than, you know, it can we give water back to the environment.

                04:24.245 –> 04:28.367

                [SPEAKER_00]: in a better state than we then we take it and can we clean more than we use?

                04:28.687 –> 04:30.869

                [SPEAKER_00]: Can we generate more renewables and we consume?

                04:30.889 –> 04:32.569

                [SPEAKER_00]: Can we sequester more carbon than we emit?

                04:33.050 –> 04:43.195

                [SPEAKER_00]: Those were the series of questions we asked and we knew a farm was where we could put those challenges to the test and that’s what we’ve been up to since we came here and and the progress is all around me.

                04:43.235 –> 04:44.776

                [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it’s been busy.

                04:45.552 –> 05:01.923

                [SPEAKER_00]: but it’s been probably the best challenge of our lives and one that just delivers in terms of making you feel great every day, you know, just to hear owls hooting at night time and see

                05:07.834 –> 05:08.214

                [SPEAKER_02]: Very cool.

                05:08.234 –> 05:13.797

                [SPEAKER_02]: So how do you link the two, see, I grew up on a farm, I live in a rural area.

                05:13.837 –> 05:20.621

                [SPEAKER_02]: So I’m not, it’s not like I don’t understand farming and all the things you’re talking about, many friends following vaguely similar paths.

                05:21.041 –> 05:27.605

                [SPEAKER_02]: But how do you join those two quite disparate businesses, the luxury accessories?

                05:28.645 –> 05:29.806

                [SPEAKER_02]: and the farm.

                05:29.866 –> 05:31.927

                [SPEAKER_02]: How integrated have you made them?

                05:31.947 –> 05:37.671

                [SPEAKER_02]: Is it just a case that Elvis and Cressy now operates from one of those previously dilapidated bonds?

                05:37.731 –> 05:42.674

                [SPEAKER_02]: Or is it fully tied together in every way that you can possibly imagine?

                05:43.374 –> 05:46.076

                [SPEAKER_00]: It’s fully tied together and we did that intentionally.

                05:46.156 –> 05:55.021

                [SPEAKER_00]: Our accountant was very distressed that we wanted to do this because it meant we had to add, you know, on companies, you have to use these descriptors to say

                05:58.258 –> 06:08.594

                [SPEAKER_00]: and he thought definitely we need to account for these things separately, and that wasn’t the point for us, because without the farm, we can’t treat more waste water than we produce, right?

                06:09.114 –> 06:14.142

                [SPEAKER_00]: We needed to build a wetland system, which we did, and that is a big functioning part of the farm.

                06:14.839 –> 06:16.480

                [SPEAKER_00]: it need to sequester carbon.

                06:16.580 –> 06:18.122

                [SPEAKER_00]: And there’s only a few ways to do that.

                06:18.162 –> 06:19.302

                [SPEAKER_00]: You can plant trees.

                06:19.823 –> 06:23.826

                [SPEAKER_00]: You can do rock weathering, which nature does on its own is pretty hard to speed up.

                06:24.286 –> 06:29.930

                [SPEAKER_00]: You can produce biochar and you can practice regenerative agriculture, which is why we came to the far.

                06:30.330 –> 06:32.912

                [SPEAKER_00]: So we planted 12,000 vines.

                06:33.212 –> 06:35.294

                [SPEAKER_00]: We are going grapes.

                06:35.814 –> 06:36.335

                [SPEAKER_00]: Our first

                06:36.955 –> 06:45.525

                [SPEAKER_00]: Harvest was last October, so we have officially made wine now, and that will be something that we start selling in spring summer of this year.

                06:46.186 –> 06:51.872

                [SPEAKER_00]: And without those two things being integrated, we can’t say that we were on a regenerative journey.

                06:52.132 –> 06:53.494

                [SPEAKER_00]: This is part of that journey.

                06:54.208 –> 07:14.373

                [SPEAKER_00]: and I think it would be a really interesting journey for businesses to go down and to follow our example because even if you make vacuum cleaners, you can go on this path, even if you are consultancy, you can go on this path, find a failed ecosystem, bring it back into a state of abundance and make that part of the DNA of the business.

                07:14.973 –> 07:21.514

                [SPEAKER_00]: And I kind of think we’ve lost our sense of wonder and imagination if we think a business can only do one thing well.

                07:21.995 –> 07:23.555

                [SPEAKER_00]: I think businesses can do a lot of

                07:24.856 –> 07:27.958

                [SPEAKER_00]: After all, a business is just a group of people in a series of decisions.

                07:28.479 –> 07:29.600

                [SPEAKER_00]: So why not make better ones?

                07:31.521 –> 07:34.243

                [SPEAKER_02]: If only we could end the podcast there because that was so profound.

                07:35.665 –> 07:39.308

                [SPEAKER_02]: I suspect you have more to share with us, though.

                07:39.328 –> 07:46.774

                [SPEAKER_02]: So do you see it as the farm cleaning up the mess that the accessories business creates?

                07:47.074 –> 07:51.278

                [SPEAKER_02]: Or have you found a way for the farm to feed back in to the products?

                07:52.178 –> 07:52.678

                [SPEAKER_00]: It’s both.

                07:52.879 –> 07:56.801

                [SPEAKER_00]: So obviously, you know, we have this wetland system.

                07:57.061 –> 08:00.143

                [SPEAKER_00]: It treats all of our wastewater, including our human ear.

                08:00.243 –> 08:04.646

                [SPEAKER_00]: We have a worm system that transforms human ear into vermicast.

                08:05.127 –> 08:08.529

                [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, we do, because why should sewage be a waste problem?

                08:08.669 –> 08:17.415

                [SPEAKER_00]: It’s a beautiful raw material once the worms have turned it into something into that, you know, once they’ve chewed through it and done there in credible work.

                08:17.950 –> 08:23.114

                [SPEAKER_00]: So that’s something that we do here, and that’s the only kind of fertilizer we use really on the farm.

                08:23.134 –> 08:26.656

                [SPEAKER_00]: We make compost and compost tea so we don’t use any synthetics.

                08:27.297 –> 08:31.800

                [SPEAKER_00]: Everything that we put on the land is made from waste, but also the wetland system produces willop.

                08:32.615 –> 08:35.918

                [SPEAKER_00]: and this is something we can harvest every year and make products from.

                08:36.378 –> 08:39.480

                [SPEAKER_00]: And the farm produces grapes and we can sell that as wine.

                08:39.741 –> 08:41.462

                [SPEAKER_00]: So there you go, you have another product.

                08:41.942 –> 08:47.727

                [SPEAKER_00]: It’s all tied together, but it’s tied together in order to maximize benefit for

                08:48.507 –> 08:57.213

                [SPEAKER_00]: air quality community are the water table locally and everyone who’s associated with the business.

                08:57.253 –> 09:01.617

                [SPEAKER_00]: So I think you can read, a business can design products, okay?

                09:01.897 –> 09:10.883

                [SPEAKER_00]: We design products, but we can also design the business to function as a good actor, to function as something that gives more than it takes.

                09:11.183 –> 09:13.465

                [SPEAKER_00]: And that’s to me what being regenerative means.

                09:14.285 –> 09:15.726

                [SPEAKER_00]: And it’s a kind of example,

                09:16.807 –> 09:43.613

                [SPEAKER_00]: We always thought we might be capable of being and that’s just what the farm journey has been and I think the most exciting thing over the past four years has just been the amount of people who drive in here or Who book time here who come down to do corporate away days or board meetings here and it’s because a lot of companies are exploring this idea of what does regenerative mean But very few of them are taking the big the big bold decisions to deliver that

                09:44.333 –> 09:51.036

                [SPEAKER_00]: And we can show here in a two-hour tour exactly what it looks like and how not difficult it is.

                09:51.116 –> 09:59.699

                [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think a lot of people think that these transformations are complex and virtually impossible and unaffordable.

                10:00.059 –> 10:07.602

                [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, the same with our fire hose business, I’ve always thought, if too, if us too crazy kids could get this far,

                10:09.342 –> 10:22.216

                [SPEAKER_00]: What excuse to let’s see one hundred companies have I don’t know you know what what excuse to companies with bigger budgets and bigger teams and better finance thing I don’t know you know I think no excuses.

                10:22.516 –> 10:24.038

                [SPEAKER_00]: I think zero excuses

                10:24.747 –> 10:31.311

                [SPEAKER_02]: Back when you started the business, you kind of stumbled across these decommissioned firehows that needed to be repurposed.

                10:31.331 –> 10:36.153

                [SPEAKER_02]: You’re now, I think using 12 different waste streams to make product.

                10:36.233 –> 10:41.136

                [SPEAKER_02]: And I suspect you’ve been offered several hundred more over years.

                10:41.596 –> 10:47.439

                [SPEAKER_02]: So how do you decide which ones are worthy of becoming Elvis and

                10:49.008 –> 10:49.871

                [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn’t say it’s worthy.

                10:49.891 –> 10:51.375

                [SPEAKER_00]: I think we do have a checklist.

                10:52.177 –> 10:54.323

                [SPEAKER_00]: One we think, can we solve this whole problem.

                10:54.484 –> 10:54.664

                [SPEAKER_00]: So.

                10:55.528 –> 11:01.713

                [SPEAKER_00]: is there something that we could do that would make a real meaningful contribution to eliminating this as a waste stream?

                11:02.273 –> 11:05.315

                [SPEAKER_00]: And if the answer is yes and we kind of kind of are really intrigued.

                11:05.676 –> 11:06.376

                [SPEAKER_00]: Do we love it?

                11:06.796 –> 11:09.518

                [SPEAKER_00]: Do we think, yeah, I can talk about this for the next 20 years.

                11:10.039 –> 11:15.543

                [SPEAKER_00]: That’s also on the checklist because the reality is for the last 21 years I’ve been talking about fire hose.

                11:15.623 –> 11:21.447

                [SPEAKER_00]: So unless I’m prepared to put that much energy and effort into it, then it’s not going

                11:25.758 –> 11:27.619

                [SPEAKER_00]: be really responsible for in the long term.

                11:28.319 –> 11:31.200

                [SPEAKER_00]: And the third is, is that are we the right team for it?

                11:31.480 –> 11:37.103

                [SPEAKER_00]: Because there are some materials that come here and we look at and go, yeah, we could solve that.

                11:37.383 –> 11:39.104

                [SPEAKER_00]: But we know there’s someone better for that.

                11:39.304 –> 11:41.725

                [SPEAKER_00]: And then we make that connection and we pass along.

                11:41.805 –> 11:44.086

                [SPEAKER_00]: Because, well, we’re not the best at everything.

                11:44.446 –> 11:49.188

                [SPEAKER_00]: And there are businesses that have real expertise in certain material types.

                11:49.408 –> 11:51.329

                [SPEAKER_00]: And we are always keen to make those connections.

                11:52.089 –> 12:16.178

                [SPEAKER_00]: that’s fundamentally the game for us or the goal or the mission is a world where every molecule that’s out there gets cherished and put back in a better state than anyone found it and we’re so far away from that right now that that anything we can do to the help and even if that means passing up great opportunities we will do that.

                12:16.833 –> 12:20.254

                [SPEAKER_02]: as it would be, I’m trying to think of a product that someone might come to you.

                12:20.274 –> 12:31.458

                [SPEAKER_02]: If someone came to you with a load of old plastic barrels or something, you fundamentally can’t turn into a home or as accessory or a fashion accessory.

                12:32.218 –> 12:38.541

                [SPEAKER_02]: It would be so crazy for you to suddenly go, oh yeah, we can turn those into plenters and we’ll suddenly develop a garden arm or something.

                12:38.961 –> 12:43.702

                [SPEAKER_02]: It would be obvious that there would be somebody else better place to reuse that material than the news.

                12:43.722 –> 12:44.963

                [SPEAKER_02]: I think that’s really fascinating.

                12:45.503 –> 12:52.687

                [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Paul, if there’s somebody better, if there’s somebody that already has the equipment, if there’s somebody that already has a process, we will make that connection.

                12:52.907 –> 12:56.829

                [SPEAKER_00]: We don’t want to just go around duplicating anyone else’s effort.

                12:56.909 –> 13:04.613

                [SPEAKER_00]: This is for us, it’s about can we do something that really is innovative and really does solve a problem that is a live problem.

                13:05.343 –> 13:19.861

                [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think over the last 20 years since you started that the amount of waste materials is decreasing at all or that a substantially larger amount is now being repurposed have you seen an improvement?

                13:20.347 –> 13:21.428

                [SPEAKER_00]: No, it’s so much worse.

                13:21.668 –> 13:29.833

                [SPEAKER_00]: There’s a few stats that make you think we’re getting somewhere when I first was examining waste in the UK with something like 100 million tons to land for every year.

                13:30.353 –> 13:38.158

                [SPEAKER_00]: And now we’re down to 30 to 40 million tons to land fill, but that’s not because we produce less waste, that’s just because we burn more and export more.

                13:38.519 –> 13:38.819

                [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

                13:39.520 –> 13:40.561

                [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it’s worse.

                13:40.922 –> 13:43.566

                [SPEAKER_00]: We are producing more stuff.

                13:43.727 –> 13:45.449

                [SPEAKER_00]: We’re producing more clothing.

                13:46.351 –> 13:49.716

                [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone keeps thinking that we’re getting close to peak stuff.

                13:49.957 –> 13:53.322

                [SPEAKER_00]: And we just, we’re clearly not there yet.

                13:54.522 –> 13:59.187

                [SPEAKER_00]: And we’re also learning more about the waste that is already out there.

                13:59.228 –> 14:09.058

                [SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you think about the research that’s coming through on microplastics, we thought that you were going to get these little tiny microplastics that could be filtered out somehow.

                14:09.419 –> 14:14.985

                [SPEAKER_00]: But it turns out these microplastics continue to break down into things called nanoplastics.

                14:15.405 –> 14:20.369

                [SPEAKER_00]: which are much better at being carriers for bacteria and various other things.

                14:20.789 –> 14:26.393

                [SPEAKER_00]: And are now recently being linked to neurodegenerative diseases.

                14:26.693 –> 14:28.875

                [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, it’s in our bloodstream.

                14:29.776 –> 14:36.020

                [SPEAKER_00]: I thought when the news article came out saying that it was in pretty much every person’s testicle, every man’s testicles.

                14:36.160 –> 14:37.321

                [SPEAKER_00]: I thought something would happen.

                14:37.602 –> 14:40.484

                [SPEAKER_00]: I thought, right, patriarchy is going to

                14:45.155 –> 14:48.676

                [SPEAKER_00]: And frankly, we’re not civilized enough to use plastic.

                14:49.396 –> 14:50.176

                [SPEAKER_00]: We’re just not.

                14:50.856 –> 14:56.037

                [SPEAKER_00]: As a species, we aren’t sophisticated enough to deal with it.

                14:56.537 –> 14:57.757

                [SPEAKER_00]: So we shouldn’t use it.

                14:58.358 –> 15:03.779

                [SPEAKER_00]: We should recognize sometimes that there are things we, their toys we shouldn’t have.

                15:04.539 –> 15:07.079

                [SPEAKER_00]: Right now, I would look at AI as being a toy.

                15:07.119 –> 15:08.459

                [SPEAKER_00]: We’re probably not ready for.

                15:08.739 –> 15:11.600

                [SPEAKER_00]: And we’re going to have all the consequences of it.

                15:12.513 –> 15:27.397

                [SPEAKER_00]: and the upside will be sprinkled around in the hands of very few people and the fallout will be shared, you know, the risk will be socialized, the profit will be privatized, just like it is with social media and algorithms.

                15:27.837 –> 15:32.579

                [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I think we have a lot of toys that we take advantage

                15:37.795 –> 15:46.400

                [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it is a strange thing of the, I guess, the Western democratic society that we play first, regulate later.

                15:46.420 –> 15:52.143

                [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we’re seeing the issue of social media now, finally being regulated what 20 years after it’s birth.

                15:52.283 –> 16:00.728

                [SPEAKER_02]: And you kind of see, see, the same scenario with AI, it seems kind of mad that we go, yeah, we’ll just, we’ll just test it on the entire population.

                16:01.348 –> 16:01.528

                [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

                16:01.708 –> 16:09.092

                [SPEAKER_02]: And then if something nasty time comes up, we might do something with it at the time, but it might be like plastic and the testicles.

                16:09.212 –> 16:10.213

                [SPEAKER_02]: We might just not bother.

                16:10.653 –> 16:10.913

                [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

                16:11.193 –> 16:12.854

                [SPEAKER_00]: We might just think, oh, well, what can we do?

                16:12.914 –> 16:13.654

                [SPEAKER_00]: It’s everywhere.

                16:13.734 –> 16:19.798

                [SPEAKER_00]: And I do find all of that very frustrating, especially when we’ve had, we’ve had other examples.

                16:19.818 –> 16:21.839

                [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we had the whole thing with smoking.

                16:22.199 –> 16:26.321

                [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that it would have been fine if tobacco companies from the time they

                16:30.885 –> 16:31.246

                [SPEAKER_00]: It does.

                16:32.026 –> 16:39.795

                [SPEAKER_00]: Here are the risks if you want to smoke smoke fine in the same way that everybody who gets on a horse knows that it’s not the safest sport in the world.

                16:39.855 –> 16:45.241

                [SPEAKER_00]: And everybody who plays rugby knows that there’s a risk and everyone who is a downhill skier knows that there’s a risk.

                16:45.562 –> 16:49.646

                [SPEAKER_00]: But when companies say this is just a safe, wonderful, beautiful thing and then.

                16:50.950 –> 16:52.492

                [SPEAKER_00]: hogs all of the profits from it.

                16:52.512 –> 16:53.933

                [SPEAKER_00]: And those aren’t redistributed.

                16:54.013 –> 17:02.322

                [SPEAKER_00]: You know, if they were all giving half of their profits to mental health charities, I’d probably, I’d probably be fine with it.

                17:02.462 –> 17:07.547

                [SPEAKER_00]: And if every time you logged on to social media, there was a risk warning, I’d probably be fine with it.

                17:07.947 –> 17:13.873

                [SPEAKER_00]: I’m not into a world where everyone’s rights are curtailed, but I am in a world where I do want a

                17:15.014 –> 17:18.637

                [SPEAKER_00]: where there is fairness and justice and honesty and transparency.

                17:19.217 –> 17:24.140

                [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, the circular economy I’m trying to deliver is one where money also is circular.

                17:24.781 –> 17:29.844

                [SPEAKER_00]: Not just, not just extracted in a one way linear direction.

                17:30.388 –> 17:39.334

                [SPEAKER_02]: And this circular economy has certainly in the world of the press, and we hear a lot more noise about circularity now than we did four years ago.

                17:40.214 –> 17:46.038

                [SPEAKER_02]: Have you seen that there be a shift in why consumers buy your products?

                17:46.498 –> 17:49.440

                [SPEAKER_02]: Because they’re now more actively looking for the circular,

                17:50.040 –> 17:57.001

                [SPEAKER_02]: Element, they go away, I want to next the next handbag I buy, I want it to be from a circular resource, therefore I’ll go to Elvis and Cressy.

                17:57.041 –> 17:57.762

                [SPEAKER_02]: Are you finding this?

                17:58.082 –> 18:01.923

                [SPEAKER_02]: They’re coming in because they like the product and then they’re kind of, oh, that’s nice.

                18:02.323 –> 18:04.703

                [SPEAKER_02]: It’s also circular as they go through the process.

                18:05.343 –> 18:14.605

                [SPEAKER_02]: The reason I ask is because I’ve had several discussions with people in working in sustainability businesses around where the message goes to the customer

                18:18.726 –> 18:20.107

                [SPEAKER_00]: Well, there’s a couple of themes there.

                18:20.187 –> 18:28.254

                [SPEAKER_00]: Like, one, I think, in the, if I look at the arc of time, so in the past 20 years, absolutely, this audience has a grown for sure.

                18:28.635 –> 18:32.898

                [SPEAKER_00]: They amount of people who we would classify as conscious consumers has grown.

                18:33.038 –> 18:42.186

                [SPEAKER_00]: People who want to read more, want to know more are interested in where something’s produced, how people are paid, what raw materials were used.

                18:42.955 –> 18:51.003

                [SPEAKER_00]: Everything that has increased tonight have written the wave of that and maybe been a part of, you know, a pioneering group of companies that are sort of delivered it.

                18:51.524 –> 18:55.768

                [SPEAKER_00]: So that is good there there is overall more of a customer base, but.

                18:56.480 –> 19:01.323

                [SPEAKER_00]: There are also a lot of brands that have just learned how to adopt the language without adopting the practices.

                19:01.483 –> 19:23.695

                [SPEAKER_00]: So the space is more crowded because there’s more companies who just say, well, I’m sustainable with no real justification for using that terminology or, oh, this is the natural product with again, no real justification for saying that, you know, we’re making wine now, holy Moses, the world of wine is so crazy.

                19:24.836 –> 19:28.198

                [SPEAKER_00]: you do not have to put ingredients on the back of a bottle of wine.

                19:28.658 –> 19:29.939

                [SPEAKER_00]: Look at, look at any bottle of wine.

                19:29.979 –> 19:33.781

                [SPEAKER_00]: It’s kind of a weird thing if you think about what we’re drinking here.

                19:34.681 –> 19:41.064

                [SPEAKER_00]: And you can put up to 15% non-grapes in there and not say, hey, that’s insane.

                19:41.645 –> 19:45.126

                [SPEAKER_00]: And also, you do not wash grapes before you squish them.

                19:45.426 –> 19:49.769

                [SPEAKER_00]: So if a farm is spraying a lot and a lot of them are

                19:55.387 –> 19:59.497

                [SPEAKER_00]: you’re drinking that and you’re not just drinking it, but you’re drinking it fermented.

                20:00.219 –> 20:01.021

                [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so

                20:02.636 –> 20:04.098

                [SPEAKER_00]: I can’t imagine that’s good for you.

                20:04.258 –> 20:05.439

                [SPEAKER_00]: I certainly don’t want to drink it.

                20:05.479 –> 20:08.562

                [SPEAKER_00]: When people talk about getting red wine headaches, they blame sulfites.

                20:08.622 –> 20:09.303

                [SPEAKER_00]: I’m like, really?

                20:09.943 –> 20:16.170

                [SPEAKER_00]: Or is it the fermented glyphosate that came free on board on the skin of those grapes?

                20:16.530 –> 20:19.953

                [SPEAKER_00]: You can also add something called mega purple, if you don’t like the color.

                20:20.454 –> 20:24.298

                [SPEAKER_00]: If it’s not sweet enough, if the grapes haven’t ripened enough, you can just add sugar.

                20:24.318 –> 20:26.380

                [SPEAKER_00]: And then you don’t have to say where that sugar came from.

                20:27.028 –> 20:30.391

                [SPEAKER_00]: So it could be completely non-fair trade sugar.

                20:30.911 –> 20:36.255

                [SPEAKER_00]: It could essentially have been from sugarcains that were picked by Haitian slaves.

                20:37.015 –> 20:41.419

                [SPEAKER_00]: And just because that slavery happening is happening now and some people would call it modern slavery.

                20:41.439 –> 20:43.040

                [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn’t mean it isn’t slavery.

                20:44.095 –> 20:46.897

                [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, wine is wild.

                20:47.278 –> 20:51.361

                [SPEAKER_00]: And I think the reason why our wine will be popular is that people are going to come to the farm.

                20:51.381 –> 20:52.883

                [SPEAKER_00]: They’re going to see us growing the grapes.

                20:52.903 –> 20:58.427

                [SPEAKER_00]: They’re going to understand based on our 21 year history that I’d rather die than use a chemical here.

                20:59.388 –> 21:04.072

                [SPEAKER_00]: That our wine is probably quite safe for drinking and might actually have genuine terrar.

                21:04.132 –> 21:11.038

                [SPEAKER_00]: It might actually be able to express this landscape unlike any wine that uses the word terrar and also uses.

                21:12.006 –> 21:16.110

                [SPEAKER_00]: Bayer or Moncanto in order to have pristine grapes.

                21:16.971 –> 21:24.578

                [SPEAKER_02]: They will the wine be sold via the Elvis and Cressy website or a hutch at the end of the lane?

                21:24.598 –> 21:27.160

                [SPEAKER_02]: No, you know, what’s your sales route?

                21:27.633 –> 21:27.873

                [SPEAKER_00]: both.

                21:27.973 –> 21:30.114

                [SPEAKER_00]: So we think, I mean, we’re small.

                21:30.234 –> 21:33.754

                [SPEAKER_00]: So we, we do think a lot of people who drive in will be buying the wine.

                21:34.595 –> 21:38.436

                [SPEAKER_00]: Another fun fact, 50% of the carbon in wine is apparently the bottle.

                21:38.996 –> 21:48.698

                [SPEAKER_00]: And that’s because although, like glass bottles are heavy, even if it’s recycled glass, that’s a lot of energy to crush it, remelt it, reform it.

                21:49.418 –> 21:51.939

                [SPEAKER_00]: And we have decided to reuse bottles.

                21:52.199 –> 21:56.380

                [SPEAKER_00]: So I’ve spent the last bunch of weeks driving around local pubs, making deals with

                21:57.984 –> 22:02.709

                [SPEAKER_00]: them setting aside boxes for us and, you know, our neighbors think it’s a great cause.

                22:02.809 –> 22:06.412

                [SPEAKER_00]: But how, you know, this year, it’s going to be 300 to 400 bottles.

                22:06.492 –> 22:10.876

                [SPEAKER_00]: Next year, it might be 5,000 and we’re hoping to get up to 17,000 bottles.

                22:10.936 –> 22:12.518

                [SPEAKER_00]: That’s going to be a big operation.

                22:13.282 –> 22:19.448

                [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, we do think we’ll sell everything from the website and everything from people coming into the farm.

                22:19.828 –> 22:23.972

                [SPEAKER_00]: It will have to be a gate-capped portion of the website, so you’ll have to click on wine.

                22:24.112 –> 22:25.594

                [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you go to the age thing, haven’t you?

                22:25.614 –> 22:27.896

                [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you’ll have to click on wine and do the age thing.

                22:28.096 –> 22:29.017

                [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, absolutely.

                22:29.037 –> 22:32.020

                [SPEAKER_00]: And to be honest, I don’t really want to put in a box and ship it.

                22:32.600 –> 22:39.445

                [SPEAKER_00]: I would much rather, you know, the most ecological way to provide wine is for people to just come here and pour it directly into their face.

                22:39.625 –> 22:43.849

                [SPEAKER_00]: And then spend the night and not do any driving.

                22:43.909 –> 22:48.672

                [SPEAKER_00]: So that’s really not what it’s about.

                22:48.712 –> 22:50.554

                [SPEAKER_00]: That’s yeah, that’s definitely how we want to sell it.

                22:50.574 –> 22:53.035

                [SPEAKER_00]: It is a much more intimate and personal way.

                22:53.195 –> 22:56.598

                [SPEAKER_00]: And it is a beautiful, what we’ve tasted so far is absolutely gorgeous.

                22:57.359 –> 23:01.482

                [SPEAKER_00]: Of course it is because we’re growing grapes with integrity and with soul

                23:02.318 –> 23:03.518

                [SPEAKER_00]: by putting the soil first.

                23:03.598 –> 23:05.219

                [SPEAKER_00]: And great grapes make great wine.

                23:05.899 –> 23:07.440

                [SPEAKER_02]: It is that simple, isn’t it?

                23:07.480 –> 23:08.020

                [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

                23:08.040 –> 23:11.341

                [SPEAKER_02]: We’ve talked a lot about farming and we talked a lot about circularity.

                23:11.601 –> 23:13.522

                [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, you’re still running an e-commerce store.

                23:13.982 –> 23:14.242

                [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

                23:14.282 –> 23:15.122

                [SPEAKER_02]: That is fun.

                23:15.282 –> 23:16.943

                [SPEAKER_02]: I was shooting funding quite a lot of this.

                23:17.543 –> 23:18.163

                [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yes.

                23:18.383 –> 23:20.084

                [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, farming is not.

                23:21.084 –> 23:23.805

                [SPEAKER_00]: The wine will eventually make money, but five years of zero.

                23:24.025 –> 23:26.026

                [SPEAKER_00]: So five years big investment with zero.

                23:26.346 –> 23:27.827

                [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, absolutely.

                23:28.547 –> 23:30.547

                [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for the website.

                23:32.348 –> 23:42.572

                [SPEAKER_00]: the 20 year old business that is financing this adventure because without it we wouldn’t be able to do it so yeah absolutely definitely still running and he comes website

                23:43.034 –> 23:55.825

                [SPEAKER_02]: It’s a hugely ever more complicated time to be an e-commerce with more competition, huge shifts to what was everyone’s go to traffic source of Facebook ads, SEO, etc, etc.

                23:56.366 –> 24:00.970

                [SPEAKER_02]: How have you been navigating that with everything else that you’ve been doing?

                24:00.990 –> 24:06.555

                [SPEAKER_02]: I think it’s been hard enough for those who can concentrate on it full time, but you’ve obviously got an awful lot of other things you’re up to.

                24:07.335 –> 24:09.597

                [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I mean, to be totally honest, I think not well.

                24:09.937 –> 24:10.778

                [SPEAKER_00]: I think we could do better.

                24:10.998 –> 24:14.741

                [SPEAKER_00]: I would give ourselves a, not the greatest score at that.

                24:14.881 –> 24:18.003

                [SPEAKER_00]: It’s changing faster than we have adapted to it.

                24:18.063 –> 24:19.464

                [SPEAKER_00]: We’re barely keeping up.

                24:19.725 –> 24:24.588

                [SPEAKER_00]: We do have a great agency in place right now that that is doing the heavy lifting for us.

                24:24.728 –> 24:30.353

                [SPEAKER_00]: And, and I think could be a long term partnership and we’ve been hunting for that kind of partnership for a while.

                24:30.433 –> 24:30.613

                [SPEAKER_00]: So,

                24:31.213 –> 24:49.537

                [SPEAKER_00]: Fingers crossed it goes well because I think it is that sophisticated and complex that it unless you are a company of a certain size You probably won’t be able to have that expertise unless you are just that person then it’s your interest area But you know by interest areas human sewage and soil health and

                24:50.157 –> 25:13.885

                [SPEAKER_00]: the state of the universe and how to avoid Canada becoming the 51st state, you know, so I guess for me it’s not what it’s not part of my landscape of hobbies and that means we need to find really good talent to help us out in that sphere and you know and as you know it’s not straightforward to find that kind of partner because every agency says they’re going to be amazing.

                25:20.198 –> 25:21.238

                [SPEAKER_00]: they can say all they want.

                25:21.318 –> 25:22.879

                [SPEAKER_00]: It’s this the delivery that matters.

                25:23.559 –> 25:30.281

                [SPEAKER_02]: And have you been looking for an agency to run all the marketing to run the whole business and the website or just the ad side of things?

                25:30.501 –> 25:36.743

                [SPEAKER_00]: Just the ads, the creative comes naturally to us because our marketing strategy has always just been to tell the truth, you know?

                25:37.672 –> 25:42.335

                [SPEAKER_00]: Our story is a true, wonderful, transparent story.

                25:42.795 –> 25:44.776

                [SPEAKER_00]: We don’t need outlandish campaigns.

                25:44.856 –> 25:47.377

                [SPEAKER_00]: We don’t need more than that.

                25:47.597 –> 25:50.459

                [SPEAKER_00]: So we’ve always taken our own in-house images.

                25:50.519 –> 25:52.480

                [SPEAKER_00]: We’re getting increasingly better at that.

                25:52.940 –> 25:56.062

                [SPEAKER_00]: The products have continued to improve over time.

                25:56.562 –> 25:58.884

                [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it’s just the ads.

                25:58.924 –> 26:02.986

                [SPEAKER_00]: And actually, Elvis is amazing at running the website.

                26:05.833 –> 26:09.415

                [SPEAKER_00]: in a good state of performance with freelancers from time to time.

                26:10.075 –> 26:14.058

                [SPEAKER_02]: What I love about what you’ve just been talking about is that you’ve gone, we’ve got all this stuff going on.

                26:15.558 –> 26:19.441

                [SPEAKER_02]: Working out how the answer is not, it’s not core to what we need to do.

                26:19.481 –> 26:24.183

                [SPEAKER_02]: It’s important to the business, but it’s not core to what I need to be around, it’s not core to what Elvis needs to be around about.

                26:24.924 –> 26:28.866

                [SPEAKER_02]: Let’s find the experts and bring it in, bring them in to run that part of the business.

                26:28.886 –> 26:32.148

                [SPEAKER_02]: So we can focus on the other elements that are more important to us.

                26:33.168 –> 26:36.970

                [SPEAKER_02]: but it is it is hard trying to find that agency.

                26:37.070 –> 26:41.411

                [SPEAKER_02]: You say you think, obviously, beginning to test with them, you think you found them.

                26:42.072 –> 26:54.437

                [SPEAKER_02]: Any tips for anyone who’s going on that journey at the moment of trying to find that right partner, because I think it’s always been difficult, but it’s even more difficult now than it was five years ago, ten years ago.

                26:54.923 –> 27:00.808

                [SPEAKER_00]: I think you have to don’t get stuck signing up for something where there’s a three to six month exit clause.

                27:01.529 –> 27:06.313

                [SPEAKER_00]: Make sure that it’s look, you know, this is where this is exactly what our budget is.

                27:06.633 –> 27:09.595

                [SPEAKER_00]: This is exactly the row asks that we’re looking for.

                27:09.655 –> 27:14.119

                [SPEAKER_00]: This is how, and come up with your own calculation of how you calculate row asks, right?

                27:14.179 –> 27:18.102

                [SPEAKER_00]: Because every agency will have some way of doing it differently.

                27:18.142 –> 27:21.325

                [SPEAKER_00]: We’ve, we’ve always had our own calculation, which we share up front.

                27:22.038 –> 27:28.804

                [SPEAKER_00]: And then really pay attention, really ask a lot of questions, but also everything they ask for.

                27:29.424 –> 27:41.234

                [SPEAKER_00]: If they say they need different creative, if they say they need more video, if they say they need different text, if you have to deliver that, because you can’t be the blockade, you can’t be the reason why they don’t succeed.

                27:42.314 –> 27:53.016

                [SPEAKER_00]: So you do have to trust them and give them the opportunity to be successful and you just have to keep saying what else can we do to help, how can we help, how can we serve, this is the greater cause.

                27:53.697 –> 27:59.538

                [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, you just have to be really specific about what outcomes you want and everybody has to know what those are in advance.

                28:02.679 –> 28:07.460

                [SPEAKER_01]: Ecommerce Masterplan is supported by some of the greatest companies in the Ecommerce sector.

                28:07.600 –> 28:08.960

                [SPEAKER_01]: Here’s a reminder of who they are.

                28:15.562 –> 28:17.742

                [SPEAKER_01]: It’s time for the top tips round.

                28:20.303 –> 28:25.624

                [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I love this section because it gives me and our listeners some really quick ideas for taking our businesses to the next level.

                28:25.764 –> 28:27.605

                [SPEAKER_02]: Cressy, are you ready for the top tips?

                28:28.305 –> 28:29.545

                [SPEAKER_00]: Ooh, I think so.

                28:30.045 –> 28:30.625

                [UNKNOWN]: Awesome.

                28:30.785 –> 28:31.385

                [SPEAKER_02]: Awesome.

                28:32.025 –> 28:33.386

                [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, the book top tip.

                28:33.466 –> 28:40.247

                [SPEAKER_02]: If everyone listening to this podcast, agreed to take Friday off and read a book to make their business better, which book would you recommend?

                28:41.427 –> 28:43.488

                [SPEAKER_00]: I would recommend Silence Spring.

                28:44.969 –> 28:48.453

                [SPEAKER_00]: think it will make you a better human being and a better critical thinker.

                28:49.293 –> 29:01.126

                [SPEAKER_00]: And although it’s very old, it is to everyone I’ve ever given it to a transformational book and I always have spares here to give to people who come around, you know, I read it when I was 12, but it’s never too late.

                29:01.546 –> 29:02.687

                [SPEAKER_00]: It’s not a child’s book.

                29:03.248 –> 29:05.210

                [SPEAKER_00]: It I shouldn’t have read it at that age.

                29:06.973 –> 29:07.333

                [SPEAKER_02]: Excellent.

                29:07.353 –> 29:09.694

                [SPEAKER_02]: Do you know you recommended that one last time as well?

                29:09.754 –> 29:15.035

                [SPEAKER_02]: And I always love it when a guest comes back with the same book because it’s like it’s that good.

                29:15.355 –> 29:16.595

                [SPEAKER_00]: It’s foundational.

                29:16.715 –> 29:21.156

                [SPEAKER_02]: It’s foundational and then the traffic top tip which marketing method.

                29:21.176 –> 29:25.717

                [SPEAKER_02]: Do you either prize above all others or think doesn’t get the press it deserves.

                29:25.737 –> 29:31.598

                [SPEAKER_00]: I think that that we have really found a sweet spot with interesting collaborators.

                29:32.265 –> 29:40.949

                [SPEAKER_00]: So we’ve started doing a lot of collaborative posting on Instagram and on various other channels with not necessarily the usual suspect.

                29:40.989 –> 29:49.853

                [SPEAKER_00]: So not just another B-Corp, but with someone who does something that really, where there’s a natural resonance in our audiences.

                29:49.993 –> 29:52.054

                [SPEAKER_00]: So we recently did something with

                29:52.758 –> 30:11.668

                [SPEAKER_00]: someone who is an incredible where repair expert and does amazing videos about that and has a huge audience and that just we saw both of us saw that that really created a surge in genuine engaged following and we’re constantly looking for partners like that.

                30:11.688 –> 30:12.549

                [SPEAKER_00]: We’ve also just done

                30:13.359 –> 30:28.499

                [SPEAKER_00]: amazing partnership with a hotel in Newcastle called Gotham Hotel, which was an old fire station we designed a bunch of pieces for them and everything around that collaboration is generating lots of interest and lots of attraction.

                30:29.400 –> 30:43.695

                [SPEAKER_00]: you always think all we just have to work with people with lots of followers and that’s just not true, you have to find the collaborators where there’s a real resonance and also where you probably get along because that means it’ll be an authentic collaboration, too.

                30:44.343 –> 30:56.714

                [SPEAKER_02]: And are these pure PR collaborations, or are they affiliate deals, or paid for deals, or does it all depend on the partner you’re working with, what the structure takes?

                30:57.054 –> 30:57.955

                [SPEAKER_00]: It totally depends.

                30:58.115 –> 31:00.637

                [SPEAKER_00]: And actually, a lot of it blossoms into many things.

                31:00.817 –> 31:05.761

                [SPEAKER_00]: So with the knitwear repair expert, she’s actually going to come here and run a workshop.

                31:05.801 –> 31:07.583

                [SPEAKER_00]: We’re going to design a bag to get it like it.

                31:08.083 –> 31:16.089

                [SPEAKER_00]: it just iterates and iterates because she’s a fascinating individual and we share so many values around longevity, repair.

                31:16.950 –> 31:23.575

                [SPEAKER_00]: And the hotel, again, it’s something where one of the biggest installations we did there is in the lobby.

                31:23.835 –> 31:26.757

                [SPEAKER_00]: So many people will go in and have their picture taken in front of it.

                31:27.257 –> 31:30.720

                [SPEAKER_00]: and share that picture with us, because they’ll say, hey, we saw you in Newcastle.

                31:30.740 –> 31:49.032

                [SPEAKER_00]: So it’s one of these things that who knows what the format is going to be, and maybe don’t be so prescriptive about that, you know, if you always go in with a very specific agenda, you might miss the wider opportunity, and maybe the wider opportunity is just a genuine friendship or relationship with a cool person.

                31:49.092 –> 31:51.914

                [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I think those are the kinds of things we look for

                31:55.627 –> 31:56.888

                [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, tooltop tip.

                31:56.968 –> 32:06.212

                [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe a collaboration tool, a social media plug-in, a phone app, or just a way of working, is there a cool little tool you use that makes you and your team a more efficient from day to day?

                32:07.093 –> 32:15.357

                [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, definitely I have a huge big screen and then I have my laptop and their links so I can move on my screens around.

                32:16.555 –> 32:24.898

                [SPEAKER_00]: And I can see lots of things at once, which, and I’m one of these people, terrible people that has probably about 42 tabs open at any given time.

                32:25.639 –> 32:32.181

                [SPEAKER_00]: And finally, I have the, the landscape in which I can see and access all of them, and that is how my brain works.

                32:32.221 –> 32:33.922

                [SPEAKER_00]: I’m always jumping around and magpying.

                32:34.502 –> 32:46.834

                [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I have the kit for that now, which it did take Elvis a painful while to explain to how I could, how I should be using it, but that’s been a revelation and massive times ever.

                32:47.515 –> 32:52.759

                [SPEAKER_02]: Huge screen, I like it, I really struggle when I don’t have two screens, but

                32:53.520 –> 32:56.261

                [SPEAKER_02]: The freedom of a big screen just feels wrong to me.

                32:57.522 –> 32:58.702

                [SPEAKER_02]: I need to be constrained.

                32:58.802 –> 33:03.084

                [SPEAKER_02]: But anyway, enough of my issues, the carbon top tip.

                33:03.124 –> 33:07.046

                [SPEAKER_02]: What’s your favorite way to reduce the carbon footprint of an e-commerce store?

                33:07.743 –> 33:33.280

                [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that’s a really interesting one and certainly a lot of the things that you do, you know, when you’re optimizing the size of images and you’re increasing load speed and all of those things actually help with carbon because it just means that it’s not trying to chug along and it doesn’t use as much sort of bandwidth and energy, but the the biggest things that we do it’s it’s it’s not the website it’s the materials it’s the materials, you know.

                33:34.020 –> 33:40.627

                [SPEAKER_00]: By using rescued materials, we estimate that we have displaced about 1.5 million tons of carbon.

                33:40.967 –> 33:46.413

                [SPEAKER_00]: If we had used new materials for our goods, we would have spent that carbon.

                33:46.920 –> 33:49.182

                [SPEAKER_00]: you know, I just, it’s the materials for us.

                33:49.783 –> 33:58.852

                [SPEAKER_00]: And then the fact that we built a passive building, you know, our workshop that we now now operate out of is made of straw bills, which a lot of people tease us about.

                33:58.872 –> 34:00.694

                [SPEAKER_00]: They call it the three little pigs workshop.

                34:01.214 –> 34:03.657

                [SPEAKER_00]: But we’ve got 45 centimeter thick walls.

                34:03.817 –> 34:05.879

                [SPEAKER_00]: We reduced our power consumption by 94.7%.

                34:08.281 –> 34:20.369

                [SPEAKER_00]: by, you know, constructing a building out of natural materials that were locally available that just happened to make it incredibly well insulated, you know, and it’s a sort of a near passive design.

                34:20.409 –> 34:33.177

                [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, and that was a great decision because we knew the payback period on a building that was slightly more expensive was was going to be a while, but given where energy prices have gone, now payback’s done, payback’s done already.

                34:33.766 –> 34:37.428

                [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but there we give thanks for raising energy prices.

                34:37.468 –> 34:47.274

                [SPEAKER_02]: No, I don’t think we do, but it’s it’s always nice when it pays off that a little bit faster when you’ve made the right decisions and across the thank you so much for being up for coming back on the show again.

                34:47.414 –> 34:57.540

                [SPEAKER_02]: I’m sure this has inspired many of our listeners and given them a lot to think about before we say goodbye there could you please let them know where they can find everything you’re up to on the web and social.

                34:58.020 –> 34:58.701

                [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.

                34:58.721 –> 35:07.347

                [SPEAKER_00]: So we’re Elvis and Cresty.com, Elvis A&D, Cary, SSE.com, and that’s our Instagram handle and our LinkedIn handle, etc.

                35:07.647 –> 35:11.430

                [SPEAKER_00]: But also we’re just six minutes drive outside of Fabrisham and Kent.

                35:11.931 –> 35:17.115

                [SPEAKER_00]: It’s a beautiful spot in the north-downs and it’s where the wine is.

                35:20.557 –> 35:21.178

                [SPEAKER_02]: Brilliant.

                35:21.198 –> 35:23.560

                [SPEAKER_02]: Cresty, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

                35:23.580 –> 35:24.180

                [SPEAKER_02]: It’s been lovely

                35:32.308 –> 35:35.750

                [SPEAKER_02]: fascinating chat there with Chrissy.

                35:37.051 –> 35:52.560

                [SPEAKER_02]: I find it so fascinating how they’re taking that that full all-in-compassing approach and they are exploring all those different avenues but making it all work together and absolutely, you know, she’s clearly still got her finger very much on the pulse on the

                35:53.100 –> 36:01.986

                [SPEAKER_02]: on the e-commerce business in terms of product production, in terms of the marketing and so forth, but also doing all those other things and they all come together to create that cohesive whole.

                36:02.706 –> 36:06.268

                [SPEAKER_02]: Lots for us all to think about, I think, as a result of that one.

                36:06.288 –> 36:08.990

                [SPEAKER_02]: So I hope you’re really pleased we’ve got grassy back on the show again.

                36:09.511 –> 36:16.315

                [SPEAKER_02]: You can get your hands on our notes from this, including the top tips and links to what we mentioned by heading over to e-commercemasterplan.com.

                36:16.875 –> 36:22.479

                [SPEAKER_02]: You can also use our direct episode short links that’s ECMP dot info for such the number of this episode.

                36:22.499 –> 36:25.761

                [SPEAKER_02]: Just put that in the URL bar and you’ll go straight to the right page on the site.

                36:26.302 –> 36:28.523

                [SPEAKER_00]: And when you’re there, why not add yourself to our email list?

                36:28.703 –> 36:28.943

                [SPEAKER_00]: Go on.

                36:29.263 –> 36:29.604

                [SPEAKER_00]: Why not?

                36:30.544 –> 36:34.807

                [SPEAKER_02]: If you like this episode, then you’re going to want to check out our first chat with Cressy.

                36:35.288 –> 36:35.568

                [SPEAKER_02]: Where?

                36:36.088 –> 36:40.849

                [SPEAKER_02]: We got into all the house and the walls about how she began the business.

                36:40.869 –> 36:46.630

                [SPEAKER_02]: And you’ll also hear the two of us geeking out about Baseljet, sewerage, and all sorts of different things.

                36:47.311 –> 36:49.991

                [SPEAKER_02]: That’s episode 392.

                36:50.191 –> 36:52.372

                [SPEAKER_02]: So a fair scroll back through the listings.

                36:52.992 –> 36:55.072

                [SPEAKER_02]: But well worth worth a listen.

                36:55.212 –> 37:03.374

                [SPEAKER_02]: And if you want to hear from other people in the B-Cop space, then ECMP.info4sashB-Cop will take you to our page

                37:06.495 –> 37:11.598

                [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for tuning in to this and every episode that you do of this podcast, the Ecommerce Master Plan podcast.

                37:12.078 –> 37:25.084

                [SPEAKER_02]: We bring you and you interview every week because I want to inspire and help Ecommerce business owners like you to succeed and thrive with your businesses, including encouraging businesses and consumers to make more sustainable buying decisions.

                37:25.605 –> 37:31.147

                [SPEAKER_02]: So if you know someone this show can help, please tell them to listen to the Ecommerce Master Plan podcast.

                37:31.588 –> 37:34.449

                [SPEAKER_02]: I hope you have a great week and don’t forget to keep optimizing.

                37:37.814 –> 37:41.121

                [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for listening to the e-commerce Master Plan podcast.

                37:41.582 –> 37:46.472

                [SPEAKER_01]: Find out more at e-commercemasterplanned.com slash podcast.

                38 min
              • eCommerce MasterPlan | 600: Episode 600: 14 eCommerce Mistakes Revealed with Chloe Thomas

                Success stories are easy to find in eCommerce. 

                 

                The mistakes, failures, and expensive lessons? Not so much.  

                 

                To celebrate the 600th episode of the eCommerce MasterPlan Podcast, Chloe Thomas takes a refreshingly honest look at the missteps that have shaped her 20+ years in business and the recurring mistakes she still sees brands making today. 

                 

                In this special solo episode, Chloe shares a mix of industry-wide pitfalls and personal screwups, revealing the lessons hidden inside each one. From costly hiring decisions and inventory challenges to bad advice and overlooked opportunities, every mistake is pulled at random from her infamous bowl of business blunders—making for an entertaining and insightful episode packed with practical takeaways. 

                 

                Hit PLAY to hear: 

                • The hiring mistake that cost Chloe £36,000 — and how to avoid making the same one 
                • Why holding too much inventory could be quietly killing your cash flow 
                • The surprisingly common reason some brands still turn off their websites (and why it’s a terrible idea) 
                • How misunderstanding your margins can wreck your marketing performance 
                • Why “launching it” is only the beginning — and where most brands go wrong after go-live 
                • The 14 costly mistakes Chloe sees eCommerce businesses make again and again after 20+ years in the industry 

                  •  

                  Key timestamps to dive straight in: 

                  [05:58] Costly hiring mistake 

                  [09:10] Managing cash flow with seasonal sales 

                  [11:17] Finding the Right Agency Fit 

                  [15:51] Crafting an effective discount strategy 

                  [18:11] Understanding and recalculating margins 

                  [22:23] Avoiding burnout with balanced work 

                  [24:42] Testing newsletter growth strategies 

                  [28:23] Evaluating eCommerce Strategies 

                  [32:06] Choosing the right product 

                  [36:25] Navigating perimenopause and business impact 

                  [38:45] Dealing with health challenges in business 

                  [40:44] Updating seasonal and automated content 

                   

                  Full episode notes here: https://ecmp.info/600

                  —

                  Download our ebook… https://ecmp.info/ebook 500 Tips to Increase Your Profits

                  Get all the links and resources we mention and join our email list at https://ecmp.info

                  Love the show? Chloe would love your feedback – leave a review here: https://ecmp.info/review or reply to the episode QandA on Spotify.

                  Interested in being a Sponsor? go here: https://ecmp.info/sponsor

                  Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

                  Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

                  WEBVTT

                  00:00.491 –> 00:04.555

                  [SPEAKER_01]: There’s a lot of movable costs in your business, both the overheads and the per product price.

                  00:05.075 –> 00:11.241

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And understanding how that affects both margin and contribution, whatever you want to call it, the profit per product and the profit of the business.

                  00:11.501 –> 00:25.914

                  [SPEAKER_01]: That’s something you need to understand, need to be ready to recalculate when you need to recalculate it, and make sure that the people who are driving yourselves, the marketers, the marketing agencies, the ads, et cetera, and know what their new targets are when those situations change.

                  00:28.568 –> 00:30.951

                  [SPEAKER_00]: It’s the e-commerce master plan podcast.

                  00:31.492 –> 00:35.578

                  [SPEAKER_00]: Here to help you solve your marketing problems and grow your e-commerce business.

                  00:36.099 –> 00:43.890

                  [SPEAKER_00]: Cutting through the highly to bring you inspiration and advice from the e-commerce sector and beyond, here’s your host, Chloe Thomas.

                  00:47.223 –> 00:49.784

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Hello and welcome, it’s great to have you here.

                  00:49.844 –> 00:53.485

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for hitting play and choosing to listen to this episode.

                  00:53.965 –> 00:55.845

                  [SPEAKER_01]: This is one of our hundreds.

                  00:56.406 –> 01:00.347

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Each time we hit the 100 milestone, we do something a little different.

                  01:00.927 –> 01:03.628

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 100 was Ask Chloe.

                  01:04.468 –> 01:11.670

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 200, I did a solo show all about e-commerce success goals, and that was part of our 2019 growth series, yeah, with our old.

                  01:12.930 –> 01:14.231

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Then, episode 300,

                  01:15.771 –> 01:20.415

                  [SPEAKER_01]: was another solo show we went behind the scenes of how we put the podcast together.

                  01:20.875 –> 01:25.258

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 400 multi guest top tips on the supply chain crisis.

                  01:25.318 –> 01:31.323

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that was at that awful moment just to be with just after Covid where we had lots of supply chain issues.

                  01:32.163 –> 01:39.870

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And then episode 500 we went a little epic and got all about profit with another multi get mega multi guest episode.

                  01:40.631 –> 01:47.376

                  [SPEAKER_01]: This time for episode 600 we’re going back to a solo Chloe episode and we’re going a bit dark.

                  01:48.397 –> 01:55.322

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We’re going to be talking about mistakes in our world, not just the e-commerce world, not just the business world, our world.

                  01:55.623 –> 01:59.005

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We are not good about talking about our failures and our errors.

                  01:59.585 –> 02:05.730

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We paint that shiny picture that all is well and awesome all of the time, where it’s frequently not the reality.

                  02:05.750 –> 02:06.991

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Let’s face it’s social media.

                  02:07.291 –> 02:08.232

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It’s not our friend.

                  02:08.252 –> 02:09.513

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it comes to this.

                  02:10.153 –> 02:33.444

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I know that first time, because over the last 20 years of being in business, when I’ve shared my feelings and some of them have been pretty epic, it’s been amazing how many people have met having gone through something very similar or exactly the same thing, an awful lot to advice, often after the facts, and I really do wish I’d known who’d gone through it sooner, so I could have learnt from their experiences and often saved a lot of money and

                  02:34.625 –> 02:37.626

                  [SPEAKER_01]: and a lot of effort and energy as well, maybe even avoided the mistake.

                  02:38.406 –> 02:42.308

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So in this episode, I’m going to be sharing mistakes.

                  02:43.168 –> 02:51.891

                  [SPEAKER_01]: In a hopefully upbeat and non depressing way, I might say this is hopefully not going to be too confessional and I’ll hopefully be lots of advice for you within it, things that you can avoid.

                  02:52.992 –> 02:56.513

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I’m also going to be sharing two different types of mistakes with you.

                  02:57.513 –> 03:08.064

                  [SPEAKER_01]: First off, the mistakes I see e-commerce brands doing again and again and how to avoid them and many of these I’ve been seeing for over a decade if not for the whole 20 years I’ve been doing this.

                  03:08.825 –> 03:20.456

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I’m also going to be sharing a few of my own screwups because let’s face it, we all enjoy hearing someone else’s screw up, but mainly in case it helps you to or at least you get to feel smart for avoiding some of the traps I’ve fallen into.

                  03:21.217 –> 03:32.848

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Now I’ve put together a list of mistakes over the last few weeks, I’ve been compiling it as they come to me, and to keep it interesting, rather than try and put them in some kind of sensible order, I’ve put them all in a bowl.

                  03:34.153 –> 03:36.415

                  [SPEAKER_01]: see, you can hopefully you can hear them rattling there.

                  03:37.075 –> 03:40.838

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And I’m literally just going to pick one out of the bowl and then talk about it.

                  03:41.258 –> 03:42.439

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And there’s 15 of them.

                  03:42.899 –> 03:46.602

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So we’re clearly not going to fit that into the section before the top tips.

                  03:46.642 –> 03:55.168

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We’ve got rid of the top tips section of this episode, but do make sure you listen right to the end so you do catch all of the mistakes I’m going to be sharing with you.

                  04:01.308 –> 04:07.570

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, let’s find out what the first one is or not killing bad decisions quickly.

                  04:08.471 –> 04:15.313

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, this is something which we as humans are hard-wired to do badly.

                  04:15.613 –> 04:22.156

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, one of the cognitive biases is, I think it’s called confirmation bias, but don’t quote me on that, is that

                  04:22.996 –> 04:26.301

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We make a bad decision and then we’re kind of committed to it.

                  04:26.341 –> 04:28.584

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So we will keep trying to prove that bad decision.

                  04:28.664 –> 04:35.654

                  [SPEAKER_01]: If you think about the most simplest terms, you’ve ordered a terrible meal of the menu in a restaurant, right?

                  04:35.714 –> 04:37.216

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It’s come and it’s clearly…

                  04:38.378 –> 04:39.159

                  [SPEAKER_01]: awful for you.

                  04:39.199 –> 04:46.843

                  [SPEAKER_01]: You’re not going to enjoy eating it, but you’re going to keep telling everyone it’s a great and it’s lovely even though you hate it because you or the one who made the decision.

                  04:47.263 –> 04:51.706

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So that’s one of the reasons why we’re bad at not killing bad decisions quickly.

                  04:52.246 –> 05:00.772

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I’ve done it multiple times and probably still do it a bit now even though I keep an eye out for it because I don’t believe my own gut.

                  05:01.752 –> 05:03.073

                  [SPEAKER_01]: That comes into this a lot.

                  05:03.833 –> 05:08.976

                  [SPEAKER_01]: The worst, this is probably the worst move of my entire business career.

                  05:08.996 –> 05:10.937

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So we’re starting big here, okay?

                  05:11.358 –> 05:13.059

                  [SPEAKER_01]: They’re gonna get smaller after this one.

                  05:13.499 –> 05:24.405

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We’re back when I was on your marketing agency, we were trying to grow and I thought, one of the ways to do that would be to hire someone who had experience in other marketing agencies who could help us improve things.

                  05:24.445 –> 05:26.486

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So they were fairly hard to find.

                  05:26.666 –> 05:29.788

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So we used a recruitment agency, so there was their fee.

                  05:30.448 –> 05:32.349

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And we paid them a really good salary.

                  05:32.909 –> 05:38.972

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And almost from week one, my gut knew this was a bad decision.

                  05:39.172 –> 05:42.253

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And this was the wrong person, the wrong cultural fit for our business.

                  05:42.854 –> 05:45.235

                  [SPEAKER_01]: However, I thought it was me.

                  05:45.755 –> 05:51.638

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was that I couldn’t train them well enough, that I couldn’t onboard them well enough, that I wasn’t managing them well enough, and it was all me.

                  05:51.658 –> 05:53.518

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So I carried on with this for six whole months.

                  05:53.558 –> 05:54.759

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, great one, Chloe.

                  05:55.599 –> 05:56.500

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Which meant that,

                  05:57.480 –> 06:05.042

                  [SPEAKER_01]: A, and then finally made the decision we had to get rid of them, which meant that we gone past the point where I could get the feedback from the recruitment agency.

                  06:05.842 –> 06:10.803

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We’d gone past the point of their probation, so I couldn’t get rid of them cheaply.

                  06:10.823 –> 06:22.006

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I had to do it extensively, and one of the things I learned after the fact when I was talking to people about it was that you can do this sort of thing using an HR consultant who’s costs are in the hundreds

                  06:27.287 –> 06:37.552

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So, all in all, I think if you add it all up, it cost me about £36,000 to higher and get rid of the person I should never have hired in the first place.

                  06:37.572 –> 06:50.338

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Despite the fact my gut knew it was a terrible decision in week one, and of course, after he left the business, every single person in the office turned around to me in one way or another and said, really glad you got rid of them, Chloe, that was a really good decision.

                  06:51.307 –> 07:08.443

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So, if you are currently sitting on something which you think may have been a bad decision or not reversing it, probably do it sooner or later or talk to your team or talk to someone you know about it rather than doing like I did and keeping thinking it’s you and just racking up the tens of thousand pounds of cost.

                  07:08.823 –> 07:11.285

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I told you we’re starting on a big one there, right?

                  07:11.305 –> 07:16.249

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Let’s hope the bowl will be more kind to me and give me a and give me an easier one next.

                  07:16.930 –> 07:18.291

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay, this one’s juicy.

                  07:18.431 –> 07:20.993

                  [SPEAKER_01]: This is what I see a lot of e-commerce business is doing.

                  07:21.473 –> 07:25.296

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Product optimization, ignoring product optimization.

                  07:25.336 –> 07:34.604

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And what I don’t mean here is tweaking your product and improving the products itself, I mean inventory and how you’re managing your inventory.

                  07:35.164 –> 07:38.925

                  [SPEAKER_01]: This is something I’ve seen back when I did consulting.

                  07:39.166 –> 07:41.066

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I’ve seen many businesses do badly.

                  07:41.166 –> 07:55.792

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I had was one company I was working with who had the value of the stock in their warehouse was enough on their current sales rate in a weekly sales performance was enough to keep them in stock for over a year.

                  07:56.772 –> 08:03.481

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, that is a horrendous position for any e-commerce business to be in, because all your cash is tied up in stock.

                  08:03.861 –> 08:08.067

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, that doesn’t take into account the fact that some of this was clearly never going to sell.

                  08:08.307 –> 08:09.349

                  [SPEAKER_01]: They had too much of it.

                  08:10.009 –> 08:11.051

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It was perishable.

                  08:11.471 –> 08:14.435

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It was no longer on trend, et cetera, et cetera.

                  08:15.256 –> 08:20.817

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So it’s easy to get excited about product over by, it’s easy to think you need more product than you do.

                  08:21.718 –> 08:29.459

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It’s easy to think, to look at that product and go, oh but I paid for that and I think that should get this so I’m not willing to discount it.

                  08:29.999 –> 08:39.002

                  [SPEAKER_01]: The clever businesses in the e-commerce space, especially in the fashion space, you’ll see this time and time again, they are the ones who clear out the stock quickly.

                  08:39.582 –> 08:43.143

                  [SPEAKER_01]: They’re the ones who turn, who keep that cash moving back into the

                  08:45.503 –> 08:51.166

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I’ve never worked in buying or merchandising, but I have huge respect for buying and merchandising skill sets.

                  08:51.206 –> 09:00.109

                  [SPEAKER_01]: For my first kind of three years of my career, I was sat in the same office as the buyers and merchandises working closely with them to work at what we promote.

                  09:00.149 –> 09:04.111

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And really fascinated by how they decided what would go on sale.

                  09:04.151 –> 09:09.533

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I clearly remember working, it was either past times or museum selection.

                  09:10.294 –> 09:12.815

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And we had like a Christmas best seller.

                  09:13.996 –> 09:19.560

                  [SPEAKER_01]: that we sold every single Christmas, but we put it in the sale every single genuine.

                  09:19.580 –> 09:22.521

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, yeah, but we could sell that in 12 months’ time at full price.

                  09:23.222 –> 09:26.304

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And the merchandise was like, yes, but we need the cash back.

                  09:27.084 –> 09:39.312

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We need the cash back from it now to keep to pay for everything we have to pay for in the non-gift selling months, but also to give us the money to buy the stock for the spring and the summer seasons before then we go back to Christmas again.

                  09:39.332 –> 09:40.453

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, we’re gonna buy it back.

                  09:41.213 –> 09:48.256

                  [SPEAKER_01]: But now we need to clear it out to get that cash back into the business and I think there’s that skillset isn’t talked enough about in our industry.

                  09:48.717 –> 09:52.458

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Buys and merchandisers are not given enough plaudits for their awesomeness.

                  09:53.259 –> 10:03.144

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it’s one of those things especially when you’re coming into the industry whether you’ve got one skew or a thousand skews, understanding when to re-buy and how to work on it is

                  10:04.224 –> 10:15.948

                  [SPEAKER_01]: is so critical to keeping the cash moving, keeping your customers happy, and running the adaptable quick-moving business who can pivot and who can change and who can twist and react to things nice and quick.

                  10:15.968 –> 10:18.629

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And I was a holiday tech stuff that sits beyond behind that.

                  10:18.669 –> 10:21.290

                  [SPEAKER_01]: But I think the mindset as a thing that many businesses don’t have.

                  10:22.250 –> 10:40.042

                  [SPEAKER_01]: that product optimisation skill set and I do quite a lot of work hosting webinars for bright pearl by sage and inventory planner by sage so I get to hear some horror stories and some amazing case studies as well working with them and seeing how they’re software and proves things.

                  10:40.622 –> 10:55.935

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I’m they’re not sponsors of this, but I am I’m quite deep in that world, despite many talking about marketing and e-commerce growth, but a lot of time thinking about product optimization and I think it’s something which many an e-commerce business doesn’t get the skills set around soon enough so that can be a huge mistake.

                  10:56.015 –> 10:57.396

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we’re too in.

                  10:57.437 –> 11:00.719

                  [SPEAKER_01]: What’s going to be next out of my little ding ding ding ding bowl.

                  11:00.960 –> 11:01.200

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

                  11:03.510 –> 11:04.650

                  [SPEAKER_01]: agency selection.

                  11:05.291 –> 11:07.051

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay.

                  11:07.071 –> 11:09.392

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So I’ve been on both sides of this.

                  11:10.132 –> 11:14.454

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Around an agency for 10 years, marketing agency, not web agency.

                  11:14.474 –> 11:17.675

                  [SPEAKER_01]: But during that time, I helped many businesses find their web agency.

                  11:17.715 –> 11:23.296

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Before that, I was working client-side finding agencies finding website builders.

                  11:25.057 –> 11:42.465

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I’ve seen some horrendous fallouts, some horrendous situations and seen many, you know, you still see many of these tales on social of horror stories that people find when they’re auditing at accounts, horror stories people find when they take over a website, et cetera, et cetera, and horror stories that brands have had.

                  11:43.912 –> 11:58.338

                  [SPEAKER_01]: In my experience, the blame in those situations is equally as likely, and don’t shoot me for this, is equally as likely to be on the shoulders of the brand as it is to be on the shoulders of the agency.

                  11:59.018 –> 12:04.821

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And it’s usually because they’ve made a bad choice of who to work with.

                  12:05.661 –> 12:14.506

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So the brand haven’t got a good enough understanding of what sort of agency they need, because one out agent is very different to another, one web agency is very different to another.

                  12:14.526 –> 12:15.767

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So they’re buying badly.

                  12:17.028 –> 12:27.754

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And often the agency haven’t done a good enough job of explaining who they are and what they deliver and who they work best for in order to enable the brand to make the right decisions.

                  12:33.917 –> 12:55.572

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It’s hard work to find the right agency and we need to be putting more effort into that brown side and agencies need to have a clear idea of who they’re delivering for and make that clear to the brand because having work to agency side, recruiting customers that are a bad fit cost you far more in the long term than that little cash flow bump of actually getting a new client.

                  12:56.112 –> 12:59.235

                  [SPEAKER_01]: There’s me one for that one before I annoy everybody listening to this podcast.

                  13:00.196 –> 13:01.298

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Ooh, this one’s juicy.

                  13:01.659 –> 13:04.143

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, turning off the website.

                  13:04.384 –> 13:06.107

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Now many of you are listening to this going.

                  13:06.408 –> 13:06.708

                  [SPEAKER_01]: What?

                  13:06.789 –> 13:07.350

                  [SPEAKER_01]: What an earth?

                  13:07.670 –> 13:09.113

                  [SPEAKER_01]: People turn off their website.

                  13:10.249 –> 13:15.072

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, people turn off their website for really, really terrible reasons.

                  13:15.913 –> 13:23.157

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So this first, I first came across this when I was consulting Gosh, it must be 15 years ago now.

                  13:23.898 –> 13:26.680

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And I was working with a brand who sold gift products.

                  13:26.720 –> 13:30.782

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It’s a husband and wife team and they were going on holiday for two weeks.

                  13:31.282 –> 13:34.424

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And while they were on holiday, they turned the website off.

                  13:34.865 –> 13:38.207

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Because they didn’t want any orders coming in to cause the customer’s issues.

                  13:38.667 –> 13:43.388

                  [SPEAKER_01]: They didn’t turn off the ads, the ads were still running, but they did turn off the website.

                  13:43.468 –> 13:44.488

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So no one could play someone else.

                  13:44.528 –> 13:51.269

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I think there was a home one home page holding page, but they turned the rest of it off for two weeks and turned it back on when they came back.

                  13:51.970 –> 13:59.011

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And I was just flabbergasted that they would do this, because of course it’s hugely bad for your SEO.

                  13:59.031 –> 14:00.611

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It’s bad for customer experience.

                  14:01.131 –> 14:04.172

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It was slightly hard about them, but it’s not that hard to set up a…

                  14:05.032 –> 14:06.993

                  [SPEAKER_01]: the warehouse is shut for the next two weeks.

                  14:07.093 –> 14:08.994

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We will deliver your products later.

                  14:09.014 –> 14:09.214

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Same.

                  14:09.814 –> 14:10.814

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It’s a really bad idea.

                  14:11.374 –> 14:16.216

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And then a couple of weeks ago, I saw someone else had done it.

                  14:16.876 –> 14:25.120

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I was so surprised this would happen in this day, and someone who was moving from their own warehouse in their office to moving to a 3PL.

                  14:26.540 –> 14:34.066

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So there was someone who should have, I’m assuming the three PLN knew this was happening because they’d have talked about order transfer, how they agreed to that news.

                  14:34.086 –> 14:36.468

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So they just passed where protected their Shopify store.

                  14:37.069 –> 14:38.310

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So no one could get into it.

                  14:38.350 –> 14:47.237

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So again, you lose or the SEO, you lose or the customer service, et cetera, et cetera, all for being able to say we’re doing a warehouse move, orders won’t be processed until this date.

                  14:47.837 –> 14:54.603

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, mind boggling to many of us, but people are still doing it, which is why I’m including on this, please do not turn off your

                  14:56.384 –> 14:59.325

                  [SPEAKER_01]: For any reason at all, okay, please don’t.

                  14:59.766 –> 15:04.407

                  [SPEAKER_01]: If you think you need to turn off your website, send me an email and say, Chloe, should I be sending it to my website?

                  15:04.447 –> 15:07.849

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And I will reply and tell you, no, you should not be turning off your website.

                  15:08.229 –> 15:10.730

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So there’s no excuse for it, please, please, please don’t do it.

                  15:11.130 –> 15:13.911

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It has all sorts of ramifications you do not want to consider.

                  15:13.931 –> 15:14.872

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We’ll have to deal with.

                  15:15.612 –> 15:17.313

                  [SPEAKER_01]: having no discount strategy.

                  15:17.614 –> 15:18.775

                  [SPEAKER_01]: That’s the next one out the bowl.

                  15:19.215 –> 15:43.273

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, this seems like kind of obvious again, but so many businesses are guilty of just slapping a percentage on it in order to drive sales without actually having a proper strategy of which customers get what discounts, you know, where they are in the RFM sequence, RFM, Reacency, Frequency, Monetary Valley, the beginning of all segmentation in retail, Reacency means how recently they bought.

                  15:44.214 –> 15:49.457

                  [SPEAKER_01]: F is frequency, how many times they bought M is how much they spend on average or customer lifetime value.

                  15:49.477 –> 15:51.318

                  [SPEAKER_01]: You can sub it for a number that works for you.

                  15:51.799 –> 16:10.289

                  [SPEAKER_01]: But to not understand where deploying a discount is valuable to you across that customer grouping, those customers segmentation is kind of mad, not testing the level of discount you’re doing on your email pop-up, also somewhat insane, and not understanding how you discount products

                  16:11.750 –> 16:23.072

                  [SPEAKER_01]: based on, we’re kind of going back to the inventory or product management piece earlier, but understanding what the right level of discount is to be worth doing to get that cash back into the business.

                  16:23.112 –> 16:29.034

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So, please have a proper discount strategy, please work out where you should be doing this.

                  16:29.394 –> 16:32.434

                  [SPEAKER_01]: What levers work best for your customer base is it three for two?

                  16:32.554 –> 16:33.515

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Is it a percentage off?

                  16:33.695 –> 16:34.415

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Is it vouchers?

                  16:34.555 –> 16:35.635

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Is it loyalty program?

                  16:36.195 –> 16:37.496

                  [SPEAKER_01]: is it free P and P?

                  16:37.616 –> 16:38.616

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Is it something else?

                  16:39.137 –> 16:45.360

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Because a discount strategy, that’s pretty should put promotion strategy, is not just about cold, hard cash.

                  16:45.480 –> 16:46.921

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It can be about many other things.

                  16:47.101 –> 16:48.882

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So, um, that’s a skill set.

                  16:48.922 –> 16:51.343

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I think we need to improve in our industry as well.

                  16:52.023 –> 16:52.304

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

                  16:53.164 –> 16:54.985

                  [SPEAKER_01]: What are we going to get next out the bowl?

                  16:55.605 –> 16:58.427

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Hope you’re liking this bowl, things coming out the bowl method.

                  16:59.247 –> 17:00.228

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this is a me one.

                  17:01.149 –> 17:02.409

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Not asking for help.

                  17:02.910 –> 17:06.512

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I don’t know why, but I am allergic to asking for help.

                  17:07.313 –> 17:13.697

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Still allergic, I now admit I’m allergic to it, but I think not asking for help has cost me a lot over the years.

                  17:14.097 –> 17:20.462

                  [SPEAKER_01]: You may find this slightly mad, but whilst I was running my marketing agency, having never worked at another marketing agency, I

                  17:21.102 –> 17:26.366

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I don’t think I reached out to a single other marketing agency to say, how do you run your marketing agency?

                  17:26.786 –> 17:32.531

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We just guessed, which is insane, given how many people are running marketing agencies.

                  17:32.931 –> 17:39.516

                  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it was kind of mad, and I’m slightly less bad at it now, but still pretty bad at asking for help.

                  17:40.737 –> 17:44.680

                  [SPEAKER_01]: In our e-commerce industry, people are so helpful.

                  17:44.740 –> 17:47.302

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It’s such a lovely space to be part of.

                  17:47.763 –> 17:53.747

                  [SPEAKER_01]: The great majority of people in this industry will help you in one way or another if you ask, you know, short questions, big questions.

                  17:53.908 –> 17:58.051

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So please, if you’re not sure what’s going on, please ask for help, don’t be like me.

                  17:58.311 –> 17:59.392

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Basically is what I’m saying.

                  18:00.072 –> 18:00.913

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Ask people for help.

                  18:01.333 –> 18:01.874

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

                  18:02.594 –> 18:03.895

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Let’s see what else we’ve got.

                  18:03.955 –> 18:05.357

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we’ve got margin in here.

                  18:06.097 –> 18:13.327

                  [SPEAKER_01]: which fits nicely with our product point and our discount promotion strategy I renamed it to, and I’ve promotion strategy, please.

                  18:14.589 –> 18:18.895

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Margin is something I think that is not well understood enough.

                  18:19.035 –> 18:21.719

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, it’s a skill set that’s a little bit missing, especially

                  18:22.420 –> 18:37.169

                  [SPEAKER_01]: This one’s kind of come to the fore as a mistake, not understanding your margins in the current climate where we’ve got tariffs shifting things a lot for people, which means recalculations, we’ve got costs going up with oil prices going up, et cetera, et cetera.

                  18:37.189 –> 18:48.556

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So there’s a lot of movable costs in your business, both the overheads and the per product price, and understanding how that affects both margin, contribution, whatever you want to call it, the profit per product and the profit of the business.

                  18:49.516 –> 19:01.066

                  [SPEAKER_01]: That’s something you need to understand, need to be ready to recalculate when you need to recalculate it and make sure that the people who are driving yourself as the marketers, the marketing agencies, the ads, et cetera, etc.

                  19:01.226 –> 19:04.849

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Know what their new targets are when those situations change.

                  19:05.690 –> 19:15.997

                  [SPEAKER_01]: because even if it’s not, even when we’ve not been in a changeable scenario, you can quickly capture cold and quickly lose a lot of money if you don’t know what you’re aiming for your targets are.

                  19:16.738 –> 19:21.501

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And when things are changing so much as they are at the moment, you really have to keep a really close eye on those numbers.

                  19:21.921 –> 19:24.843

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So the mistake of not understanding a margins.

                  19:25.324 –> 19:26.365

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Right, what’s next?

                  19:27.293 –> 19:28.593

                  [SPEAKER_01]: No optimisation.

                  19:29.234 –> 19:29.774

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay.

                  19:30.194 –> 19:32.154

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I was running about this with someone yesterday.

                  19:32.394 –> 19:38.556

                  [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, this is when you put something live and you think it’s done.

                  19:39.597 –> 19:40.017

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It’s not.

                  19:40.597 –> 19:41.437

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It’s not ever done.

                  19:41.937 –> 19:44.278

                  [SPEAKER_01]: That’s one of the frustrations of our industry.

                  19:44.318 –> 19:46.138

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Nothing you do is ever complete.

                  19:46.699 –> 19:47.699

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It always needs

                  19:52.240 –> 20:04.750

                  [SPEAKER_01]: This when I back was back in my agency days we did a lot of Google ads work and it was amazing the number of people we did audits who had put Google shopping campaigns live and that was it, they just left it.

                  20:05.150 –> 20:15.939

                  [SPEAKER_01]: They hadn’t optimized it, they hadn’t looked at it, they hadn’t set any, you know, using any of the tools we had no segmentation, nothing they just got on its life, that’s done.

                  20:15.979 –> 20:18.841

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We can tick the box of Google shopping campaigns and go and work on something

                  20:20.742 –> 20:23.224

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It only works if you optimize it.

                  20:23.244 –> 20:27.747

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Same thing happens with Facebook ads, same things happens with email automation sequences.

                  20:27.988 –> 20:29.309

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we can take the box.

                  20:29.369 –> 20:30.469

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We’ve done a band and basket.

                  20:30.489 –> 20:38.335

                  [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

                  20:39.375 –> 20:42.416

                  [SPEAKER_01]: If I’m straighting one because you can’t just go, oh it’s done.

                  20:42.677 –> 20:43.357

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It’s done.

                  20:44.197 –> 20:45.157

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We’ve completed.

                  20:45.197 –> 20:46.298

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We’ve reached the highest tier.

                  20:46.418 –> 20:48.278

                  [SPEAKER_01]: No, you put live and then you optimize.

                  20:48.439 –> 20:49.599

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So huge mistake.

                  20:49.699 –> 20:50.799

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I’m going to stop myself there.

                  20:50.899 –> 20:52.900

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Or I will rant about this for the next half hour.

                  20:54.261 –> 20:57.742

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Which you don’t need because I’ve got a still got loads of these to get through.

                  20:58.042 –> 20:59.162

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it’s a me one.

                  20:59.602 –> 21:00.883

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Working weekends.

                  21:02.162 –> 21:08.769

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I have more than once falling into the trap of working on weekends or working late in the evenings.

                  21:09.169 –> 21:15.616

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And it’s never been good for me and it’s never been good for my businesses at whichever point I did it.

                  21:16.236 –> 21:18.338

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So now it’s kind of like a warning sign for me.

                  21:18.378 –> 21:24.885

                  [SPEAKER_01]: If I have to work a weekend, if I have to work late, then I’ve made a bad decision, a bad strategic decision in the business.

                  21:26.192 –> 21:27.213

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Why do I say this?

                  21:27.313 –> 21:32.935

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, because I’m a big believer in constraint being a beautiful thing.

                  21:33.075 –> 21:44.161

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you can strain yourself to five days a week or four days a week, or 30 hours a week, or however you want to constrain yourself, it forces you to make better decisions about what you’re doing in the business.

                  21:45.352 –> 21:47.514

                  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, if you go, well, I’ve only got 30 hours.

                  21:47.714 –> 21:50.397

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So how do I make those 30 hours pay off me?

                  21:50.477 –> 21:54.582

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I can’t work on Saturday when it’s lovely and quiet in the office.

                  21:54.842 –> 21:59.126

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So how can I create a situation that’s lovely and quiet on one of the days I’m allowed to work?

                  21:59.246 –> 22:00.287

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So as I can get things done.

                  22:01.208 –> 22:03.591

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It is easy to become a busy fall.

                  22:03.751 –> 22:04.752

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It’s easy to go.

                  22:04.772 –> 22:06.474

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I’m doing more hours.

                  22:06.514 –> 22:07.935

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Therefore, work will be good.

                  22:08.556 –> 22:09.677

                  [SPEAKER_01]: That is rarely the case.

                  22:10.277 –> 22:11.859

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Very, very rarely the case.

                  22:12.340 –> 22:16.684

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So I highly advise you to ignore the people who are like,

                  22:16.844 –> 22:18.185

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I’m hustling.

                  22:18.365 –> 22:21.667

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I’ve done seven days for the last three years.

                  22:21.707 –> 22:23.609

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I haven’t taken a holiday in 10 years.

                  22:23.909 –> 22:24.850

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I don’t take time off.

                  22:24.910 –> 22:25.570

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It’s for losers.

                  22:25.830 –> 22:26.551

                  [SPEAKER_01]: They are wrong.

                  22:27.111 –> 22:32.695

                  [SPEAKER_01]: If you want a healthy life and a strong business, then don’t work the weekends.

                  22:33.476 –> 22:35.137

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Restrict your working hours.

                  22:35.757 –> 22:42.122

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Because if you have a partner like in those very, very early stages of building something, right, when you’re proving the concept.

                  22:42.502 –> 22:56.711

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Once you get past that, if the only way your business survives is by you working 60 hours a week, and the business can’t afford to hire someone else to do it, then either you are doing things that shouldn’t be being done because they’re not valuable to you.

                  22:56.971 –> 22:59.973

                  [SPEAKER_01]: If there’s no money to pay someone to do it, then it’s not worth doing.

                  23:01.174 –> 23:05.437

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Or you are fundamentally just screwing yourself over.

                  23:06.240 –> 23:07.241

                  [SPEAKER_01]: That’s just put it that way.

                  23:07.561 –> 23:20.011

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, seriously, though it is easy, so easy to fall into that trap of more hours, more hours, more hours and then everything will be all right and it is rarely the case that that is a good decision.

                  23:20.212 –> 23:30.260

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Either you’re, if you’re having to do that, either your business model is broken and there’s not enough margin, therefore you can’t pay someone else to do it, or you’re doing things that are just pointless and not bringing value to the business.

                  23:30.680 –> 23:40.429

                  [SPEAKER_01]: and stopping pausing, letting the subconscious work something out over the weekend, so you can come back and make better decisions as a far, far better way to improve your business.

                  23:41.049 –> 23:42.390

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, rant over.

                  23:42.811 –> 23:44.252

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Let’s see what else we’ve got in here.

                  23:44.892 –> 23:46.594

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, test once and write off.

                  23:46.774 –> 23:50.758

                  [SPEAKER_01]: This goes with the the optimization point I made earlier.

                  23:51.678 –> 23:56.462

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It’s very easy to try something once.

                  23:57.323 –> 24:01.587

                  [SPEAKER_01]: it not work and you write off that whole channel forever.

                  24:02.168 –> 24:06.832

                  [SPEAKER_01]: This is something I’ve seen so many times with Facebook ads and Google ads.

                  24:07.292 –> 24:09.034

                  [SPEAKER_01]: You’ll be talking to a brand new world.

                  24:09.054 –> 24:12.497

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Your business should really do well on Google ads or we tried it and it didn’t work.

                  24:13.057 –> 24:14.658

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, okay, how did you try it?

                  24:15.079 –> 24:21.623

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we ran some, some brand ads and, um, um, uh, yeah, just it just kind of lies the organic social.

                  24:21.643 –> 24:22.424

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Did you do anything else?

                  24:22.524 –> 24:23.624

                  [SPEAKER_01]: No, did you sort of Google shopping?

                  24:24.045 –> 24:24.285

                  [SPEAKER_01]: No.

                  24:24.625 –> 24:25.986

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Did you try PMAX?

                  24:26.426 –> 24:26.647

                  [SPEAKER_01]: No.

                  24:26.907 –> 24:27.587

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Did you try this?

                  24:27.927 –> 24:28.148

                  [SPEAKER_01]: No.

                  24:28.388 –> 24:29.408

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Did you try some more creative?

                  24:29.749 –> 24:29.929

                  [SPEAKER_01]: No.

                  24:29.969 –> 24:31.070

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Did you optimize your product feed?

                  24:31.410 –> 24:31.630

                  [SPEAKER_01]: No.

                  24:31.990 –> 24:37.654

                  [SPEAKER_01]: There’s like all these things and it’s very much the same, you know, with, you get the same thing with face because, oh, we try to campaign.

                  24:38.094 –> 24:38.655

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It didn’t work.

                  24:39.575 –> 24:40.676

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

                  24:40.696 –> 24:41.776

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Did you try different creative?

                  24:42.376 –> 24:42.496

                  [SPEAKER_01]: No.

                  24:42.576 –> 24:43.657

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Did you try different targeting?

                  24:44.237 –> 24:44.397

                  [SPEAKER_01]: No.

                  24:44.797 –> 24:48.218

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Did you try all those many many things you can try?

                  24:48.658 –> 24:53.340

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Did you look and see if it was the landing page and the conversion on your website that was the problem?

                  24:53.820 –> 24:57.281

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So please do not test once and write off.

                  24:57.541 –> 25:00.162

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I’m currently slamming this into my own head.

                  25:00.682 –> 25:01.923

                  [SPEAKER_01]: at the moment because we are.

                  25:02.363 –> 25:05.686

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We’re on a big email list growth project.

                  25:05.906 –> 25:11.350

                  [SPEAKER_01]: First of all on our e-commerce tech newsletter and then we’re going to be rolling out what works to the e-commerce master plan news item.

                  25:11.570 –> 25:13.432

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Joy of having team news letters.

                  25:13.532 –> 25:18.255

                  [SPEAKER_01]: But we’ve been running a test, kicked it off three or four weeks ago.

                  25:19.076 –> 25:26.061

                  [SPEAKER_01]: On what looks like a very cool list growth system, it looks like it should be quality giving.

                  25:26.081 –> 25:30.464

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, because it would be very easy to grow our lists with loads of low-quality data.

                  25:30.504 –> 25:37.910

                  [SPEAKER_01]: That would be very simple, but it doesn’t deliver a good quality data, it doesn’t deliver engagement, it doesn’t deliver the type of audience that our customers want from us.

                  25:39.729 –> 25:42.191

                  [SPEAKER_01]: But this one looks like it should be quite quality.

                  25:42.531 –> 25:44.593

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It’s called sparkly people and what’s going to check it out.

                  25:45.333 –> 26:02.086

                  [SPEAKER_01]: But our first test, and we’re pending results at the moment, but I reckon our first test is going to be bad, because all the emails that have come in a Gmail email addresses, which is usually a sign that they’re not going to be the high quality ones, you know, they’re not brand.

                  26:02.146 –> 26:03.167

                  [SPEAKER_01]: There’s not a list of brand names.

                  26:03.187 –> 26:04.148

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I get the list of Gmail.

                  26:04.828 –> 26:06.349

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We’ve got 120 signed up.

                  26:06.429 –> 26:08.250

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So far, the unsubscribe rate isn’t great.

                  26:08.410 –> 26:10.972

                  [SPEAKER_01]: The opens and the clicks are lower than our average.

                  26:11.332 –> 26:16.595

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So it’s not looking, looking a brilliant, but we’re going to let it play out for a month or six weeks or so.

                  26:17.195 –> 26:21.517

                  [SPEAKER_01]: See how the engagement is and then decide how we proceed with that.

                  26:21.918 –> 26:23.939

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I could look at that and go, oh, that spark.

                  26:23.979 –> 26:24.759

                  [SPEAKER_01]: You just doesn’t work.

                  26:24.799 –> 26:25.440

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We’ll give up on it.

                  26:26.220 –> 26:38.709

                  [SPEAKER_01]: That would be a stupid idea because one within sparkly as within the ad tools, there’s kind of two or three different ways you can go about running this type of campaign and we’re only trying one of them.

                  26:39.449 –> 26:45.053

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Secondly, within those different types there are lots of ways which you could lots of levers you can pull to optimize.

                  26:45.553 –> 26:48.837

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So we’re not going to be, I think it’s highly, highly unlikely we’re going to go.

                  26:49.057 –> 26:50.218

                  [SPEAKER_01]: This isn’t going to work for us.

                  26:50.758 –> 26:53.181

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I think the quick volume play isn’t going to work for us.

                  26:53.962 –> 26:57.665

                  [SPEAKER_01]: But there will be nuggets within that which do work well for us.

                  26:58.466 –> 27:05.954

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So me, just as much as all the rest of you has to remember this one, do not test once and write off optimized optimised optimised.

                  27:07.375 –> 27:14.921

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I think we’re going to pause for the ads now and then we’re going to come back and I’ve got one, two, three, I’ve got five left.

                  27:14.941 –> 27:19.685

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so we’ll do five more after the outbreak, so stick around and don’t go anywhere.

                  27:21.907 –> 27:26.710

                  [SPEAKER_00]: E-commerce master plan is supporting by some of the greatest companies in the E-commerce sector.

                  27:26.831 –> 27:33.976

                  [SPEAKER_00]: Here’s a reminder of who they are.

                  27:34.156 –> 27:36.018

                  [SPEAKER_00]: It’s time for the top six round.

                  27:38.646 –> 27:40.186

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, thanks for sticking around.

                  27:40.587 –> 27:46.108

                  [SPEAKER_01]: You are not going to regret that decision, because we’ve still got five of my mistakes to run through with you.

                  27:46.188 –> 27:50.449

                  [SPEAKER_01]: The first of which is the wrong advice and filtering, right?

                  27:50.469 –> 27:53.330

                  [SPEAKER_01]: This is going to require some explanation.

                  27:54.530 –> 27:59.912

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It is very easy in our modern world, especially around digital marketing and e-commerce.

                  27:59.932 –> 28:06.774

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, there’s so much noise being created by the industry, and I’m say this as someone who creates noise within the industry.

                  28:07.714 –> 28:08.935

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So much noise being created.

                  28:08.975 –> 28:21.121

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It’s very easy for you to get distracted by, let’s call it a bright shiny object and not have done the filtering you should do to work out if there’s actually relevant for your business.

                  28:21.481 –> 28:23.922

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Filters can be things like skew count.

                  28:23.942 –> 28:25.443

                  [SPEAKER_01]: That’s a big one in the e-commerce.

                  28:25.563 –> 28:26.944

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Is this a tool for

                  28:27.664 –> 28:32.488

                  [SPEAKER_01]: A business with loads of skis or a tool or a strategy or an idea for a business with not many skis.

                  28:32.868 –> 28:42.735

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Size of business is this a strategy when you’re spending a hundred pounds a day on ads or as it for when you’re spending a hundred thousand pounds a month on ads.

                  28:43.496 –> 28:45.377

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Where does the strategy fit within that?

                  28:45.738 –> 28:49.661

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Is this a strategy for subscription or a strategy for single product sales?

                  28:50.081 –> 28:55.005

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Is this a strategy for fashion or for gift or for supplements or health and beauty?

                  28:55.865 –> 28:58.508

                  [SPEAKER_01]: what’s the strategy, you know, where’s this coming from?

                  28:58.748 –> 29:01.630

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Who’s this been written by, and who is this being suggested by?

                  29:02.251 –> 29:05.014

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Is it someone who understands your part of the industry?

                  29:05.334 –> 29:07.176

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Is it someone clearly trying to sell something?

                  29:08.056 –> 29:12.601

                  [SPEAKER_01]: All that filtering to make sure we’re absorbing the right noise is really, really critical.

                  29:13.301 –> 29:25.705

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And also, you know, it’s not just about consuming podcasts and blog content and YouTube videos, content at conferences and discussions with the people who call your appendously with sales ideas.

                  29:26.506 –> 29:29.587

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It’s also about the advisors you have around you.

                  29:29.787 –> 29:31.608

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So I’ve got two examples for this one.

                  29:31.768 –> 29:33.788

                  [SPEAKER_01]: One is a massive error I made.

                  29:34.308 –> 29:37.670

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I’m not quite in the 36,000 pound realm of the

                  29:39.050 –> 29:46.374

                  [SPEAKER_01]: of the bad hire, but it was I think it was probably was at least at least five grand if not a bit more in the end.

                  29:46.874 –> 29:51.557

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Was I had an accountant who suggested we become an LLP in the agency.

                  29:51.837 –> 29:53.478

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I’m not going to get into the accounts of it, don’t worry.

                  29:54.178 –> 30:01.222

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And then one of the ways we were going to benefit from this was something to do with having a car on finance and then putting that back through the business.

                  30:02.054 –> 30:03.815

                  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I should have asked a lot more questions.

                  30:03.835 –> 30:04.655

                  [SPEAKER_00]: Let’s put it that way.

                  30:04.976 –> 30:09.318

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And I merely went, I went away and bought a car that I didn’t, I was too big.

                  30:09.338 –> 30:10.239

                  [SPEAKER_00]: It was just too big.

                  30:10.299 –> 30:11.199

                  [SPEAKER_00]: Beans are only one series.

                  30:11.559 –> 30:12.520

                  [SPEAKER_00]: Why are you too big for me?

                  30:13.040 –> 30:13.941

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, sorry, two series.

                  30:14.181 –> 30:15.201

                  [SPEAKER_01]: One or two, one of them, anyway.

                  30:15.441 –> 30:15.802

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Too big.

                  30:16.022 –> 30:16.762

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I like small cars.

                  30:16.782 –> 30:18.003

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I live around a lot of lanes.

                  30:18.023 –> 30:20.264

                  [SPEAKER_01]: You can’t be doing a big car on the lanes, it’s a nightmare.

                  30:20.284 –> 30:21.865

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And then it had beeping reversing.

                  30:22.205 –> 30:24.726

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Don’t get me started with hedges and beeping reversing, anyway.

                  30:25.807 –> 30:27.728

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It was a bad choice, cost a lot of money.

                  30:28.188 –> 30:31.809

                  [SPEAKER_01]: The tax benefit vanished into thin air.

                  30:31.829 –> 30:33.970

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Still not quite sure why that vanished, but it did vanish.

                  30:33.990 –> 30:37.111

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It was a myth, it was a complete stupidity.

                  30:38.132 –> 30:45.814

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And had to, because I disliked the car so much, ended up having to buy my way out of it, which then meant I lost money on all the rest of it.

                  30:45.834 –> 30:49.736

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It was a very stupid decision, a very easily avoided decision, if I’d

                  30:50.656 –> 30:52.797

                  [SPEAKER_01]: asked more questions and not taking bad advice.

                  30:53.218 –> 30:55.199

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So that’s the example of one.

                  30:55.239 –> 31:05.885

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Example number two though, is one from gosh again about 10 years ago back when I was doing consulting, but I’ve come across brands who do this since.

                  31:05.906 –> 31:11.829

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Whereas I was working with the marketing e-commerce marketer of a company

                  31:13.450 –> 31:17.832

                  [SPEAKER_01]: One product that came in one pack size and three different colors.

                  31:18.332 –> 31:20.313

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so they had three skews.

                  31:21.053 –> 31:23.214

                  [SPEAKER_01]: The entire business had three skews.

                  31:23.274 –> 31:24.255

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Very successful business.

                  31:24.975 –> 31:26.936

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Not around anymore, but I’m still not going to name them.

                  31:27.316 –> 31:30.618

                  [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so they had three products, three skews, that was it.

                  31:31.438 –> 31:39.825

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And she’s been to a conference one run by SLI systems who don’t exist anymore, but they were a search and diving company.

                  31:40.085 –> 31:46.471

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So all about helping customers, your customers on your website find the right product.

                  31:47.091 –> 31:49.993

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And she came back from this event and was like, guys, amazing.

                  31:50.014 –> 31:51.415

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I think we’re going to have to buy it.

                  31:51.435 –> 31:52.115

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We’re going to put it in place.

                  31:52.135 –> 31:54.857

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, it’s solving a problem you don’t have.

                  31:55.903 –> 32:01.284

                  [SPEAKER_01]: You only have three skews, you know, customers aren’t struggling to find the right product.

                  32:01.604 –> 32:05.265

                  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, let’s not stopping them from buying because you only have three skews.

                  32:05.345 –> 32:06.385

                  [SPEAKER_01]: One product, three colorways.

                  32:06.905 –> 32:11.486

                  [SPEAKER_01]: You don’t need this product because it’s built for people with big skewsets.

                  32:12.086 –> 32:22.268

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So that’s the sort of filtering, I mean, you have to kind of like resist the excitement and the sales pattern and the cool case study sometimes and go, actually.

                  32:23.148 –> 32:24.469

                  [SPEAKER_01]: is this the right thing for our business?

                  32:24.609 –> 32:27.010

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And it might even be, is this the right thing for our business now?

                  32:27.070 –> 32:35.214

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So, the big mistake is to listen to the wrong advice and not do do your own filtering and your own questioning when you go along with those things.

                  32:36.255 –> 32:37.816

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And in my case, don’t buy BMW.

                  32:38.936 –> 32:41.138

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, brand names.

                  32:41.818 –> 32:42.959

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this is another me one.

                  32:43.039 –> 32:44.219

                  [SPEAKER_01]: This is getting very confessional.

                  32:44.379 –> 32:45.280

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Apologies, everybody.

                  32:45.900 –> 32:47.281

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so what we’ve got left

                  32:49.862 –> 32:52.083

                  [SPEAKER_01]: and I think we’ve done that one already.

                  32:52.443 –> 32:54.763

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So we’ve got, obviously, I had a duplicate in there.

                  32:55.063 –> 33:00.245

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We’ve got two confessional ones, and then we’ve got a big e-commerce one.

                  33:00.285 –> 33:05.826

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So just to keep you listening, I need to do the two confessions, then we’ll go big e-commerce, and then we’ll wrap everything up.

                  33:06.426 –> 33:08.407

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Because I too, a bit of a salesperson.

                  33:08.867 –> 33:09.648

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Right, okay.

                  33:10.048 –> 33:11.549

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So two conversions.

                  33:11.569 –> 33:17.013

                  [SPEAKER_01]: The first confession is brand names and this also goes for good e-commerce advice as well.

                  33:17.514 –> 33:22.978

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So brand names, I have an impressive history of coming up with bad brand names.

                  33:23.899 –> 33:27.341

                  [SPEAKER_01]: The first was, and hopefully some of these might make you giggle.

                  33:27.401 –> 33:30.604

                  [SPEAKER_01]: The first one was Indium web management.

                  33:30.684 –> 33:34.106

                  [SPEAKER_01]: That was what the agency was first called when we created it.

                  33:35.407 –> 33:39.850

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And we had clients who thought we were called a modium, and some who thought we were called a radium.

                  33:40.671 –> 33:42.191

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It was ridiculous.

                  33:42.231 –> 33:46.814

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It was such a bad name, because people just didn’t know what the word was.

                  33:46.834 –> 33:53.879

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We then became indium online, which made more sense, shorter, et cetera, et cetera, more called logo, et cetera, et cetera.

                  33:53.899 –> 33:57.681

                  [SPEAKER_01]: But we still had the radium, iridium-emodium issues.

                  33:58.101 –> 34:00.983

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And when your clients are saying to your face, having worked with you for 12 months,

                  34:04.265 –> 34:05.006

                  [SPEAKER_01]: we’re not called that.

                  34:05.526 –> 34:07.228

                  [SPEAKER_01]: You know you’ve done a bad name.

                  34:07.928 –> 34:20.738

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Second bad name was this one, this very podcast name, which in some ways was a brilliant name because started off as the name of my first book and to work out the name of the book.

                  34:20.758 –> 34:23.660

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It was going to be called Ecommerce Blueprint, obviously original name of the book.

                  34:24.241 –> 34:27.143

                  [SPEAKER_01]: But then we did a, I’ve just removed another

                  34:32.820 –> 34:45.123

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I did run a couple of Google ads or multiple Google ads actually with all the different name ideas going to a landing page and saw which one got the best click through rate and e-commerce master plan got the best click through rate and hence that became the name of the book.

                  34:45.343 –> 34:46.243

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Kind of cool, right?

                  34:46.963 –> 34:58.426

                  [SPEAKER_01]: However, once it becomes a podcast, we have people who I know have listened to tens of episodes, if not hundreds of episodes, who think it is and will email me telling me how great

                  35:03.312 –> 35:03.998

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And I mean…

                  35:05.014 –> 35:10.858

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so master plan, terrible name in business because people think it’s master class and various other things.

                  35:11.018 –> 35:16.422

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So yes, the e-commerce master plan podcast not my best name in the end either.

                  35:16.642 –> 35:17.283

                  [SPEAKER_01]: But we love it.

                  35:17.323 –> 35:17.803

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We still love it.

                  35:17.823 –> 35:18.143

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And don’t worry.

                  35:18.163 –> 35:19.604

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We’re not going to be changing the name anytime.

                  35:19.624 –> 35:30.032

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I’m seeing the one I just remembered that I forgot to set that that mid that was calling a book customer manipulation, which felt like a great idea at the time and it really fitted.

                  35:34.555 –> 35:40.520

                  [SPEAKER_01]: you are a bit annoyed when words end up with different meanings that dictionary definition.

                  35:40.900 –> 35:47.045

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So manipulated in the dictionary is, you know, forming things with clay and molding things, which is great because that’s what we do to our customers.

                  35:47.085 –> 35:48.727

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We help them and we guide them in the right place.

                  35:49.327 –> 35:58.475

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Didn’t really work massive flop of a book, brilliant book, since re-published as customer persuasion, but yeah, that was another bad naming decision.

                  35:58.515 –> 35:58.635

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So

                  35:59.235 –> 36:03.859

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Don’t follow my mistake, don’t come up with bad brand names.

                  36:04.480 –> 36:12.347

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I’m thinking them through first, and then if you need to change the name, change the name, sooner or later we go back to that one about holding on to bad decisions.

                  36:13.028 –> 36:16.391

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, one more confession, and then we’re going to do the final e-commerce one.

                  36:17.051 –> 36:22.276

                  [SPEAKER_01]: This one, probably TMI, but bear with me, because I’ve been fairly public about this already.

                  36:22.356 –> 36:24.198

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It was not being ready for the menopause.

                  36:25.419 –> 36:36.983

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, um, I’ve just had 12 very interesting months fighting the Perry Menopause, various symptoms, trying to get onto the right dose of HRT, et cetera, et cetera, and trying everything under the sun to try and feel like a human again.

                  36:37.423 –> 36:40.544

                  [SPEAKER_01]: The good news is I massively feel like a human again.

                  36:41.084 –> 36:43.665

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I almost feel like I’ve got 2018 energy.

                  36:43.965 –> 36:45.005

                  [SPEAKER_01]: How crazy is that?

                  36:46.306 –> 36:53.668

                  [SPEAKER_01]: If you know, you know, but I thought I was relatively, I mean, I’m not heading the sand, but there were lots of things I wish I’d done.

                  36:54.965 –> 37:03.406

                  [SPEAKER_01]: five, 10 years ago, and known about five, 10 years ago to be better prepared in my business because the business has taken a fairly massive hit.

                  37:03.426 –> 37:05.747

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It’s probably the thing most affected by my energy.

                  37:06.507 –> 37:08.567

                  [SPEAKER_01]: The Paramanapause and the energy issues that’s given me.

                  37:09.027 –> 37:11.588

                  [SPEAKER_01]: But also to know how to attack it.

                  37:11.648 –> 37:22.910

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Essentially, I was the boiling frog analogy for probably four years going into it and should have got on the HOT and really got revised to it a couple of years before I had.

                  37:22.950 –> 37:23.630

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Then I would have had,

                  37:24.090 –> 37:28.711

                  [SPEAKER_01]: you know, things would not have got us bad last year, but I didn’t know.

                  37:28.731 –> 37:31.091

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I thought I kept going, oh yeah, it’s fine.

                  37:31.131 –> 37:33.152

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It’s just, it’s just post-COVID energy issues.

                  37:33.192 –> 37:35.012

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It’s just this energy issue.

                  37:35.072 –> 37:36.292

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It’s just that energy issue.

                  37:36.332 –> 37:38.593

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It’s not this and then you reach that crisis point.

                  37:38.613 –> 37:39.273

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It’s like, oh no.

                  37:39.293 –> 37:40.353

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay.

                  37:40.633 –> 37:44.054

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we need, we need to go and see the special dogs and now I get this sorted.

                  37:44.694 –> 37:48.115

                  [SPEAKER_01]: The other thing I wish I’d done is I wish I’d got the business best prepared for it.

                  37:50.898 –> 38:02.444

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So here at a metcomedia, I’ve got a team of four and a half people who are mainly on or are entirely on content production and accounting.

                  38:03.765 –> 38:13.630

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I’m the person, actually they do a lot of the marketing as well, but for the various content platforms we’ve got, I do all the sales and all the marketing that leads to the sales.

                  38:14.530 –> 38:32.262

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And when your person who does all of that is reduced to some days 40% capacity, sometimes 60% capacity, and with not a lot of energy, and we all know sales and marketing, you’ve got to be positive as you’re doing it or your misery comes through, doesn’t it?

                  38:32.282 –> 38:33.002

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn’t, it just.

                  38:34.643 –> 38:40.848

                  [SPEAKER_01]: That has been a massive problem and despite myself being a lover of building systems, our sales systems weren’t there.

                  38:41.248 –> 38:44.271

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So that’s what we’ve been working over the last six months.

                  38:44.771 –> 38:59.303

                  [SPEAKER_01]: But it’s, I wish I’d known that in advance that could hit me this badly in advance, so as I could pull all that together because you may be paying critical illness insurance for times when you are ill and you cannot make your business function properly.

                  38:59.663 –> 39:01.885

                  [SPEAKER_01]: menopause is not included on that list.

                  39:02.666 –> 39:06.430

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It’s not, you’re going to get no support from anywhere if you’re running your own business.

                  39:07.011 –> 39:09.833

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So I wish I wish I’d been ready for that.

                  39:09.933 –> 39:14.078

                  [SPEAKER_01]: If you’re if you’re want to know more about that, I’m not going to carry on about it on here.

                  39:14.878 –> 39:15.959

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So I say, I am now.

                  39:16.620 –> 39:23.843

                  [SPEAKER_01]: back up 100% really solid and very much excited about what the next next few months and years are going to bring for the business.

                  39:24.003 –> 39:30.445

                  [SPEAKER_01]: But if you think you may need a chat about that, feel free to reach out and ask me questions via LinkedIn or email.

                  39:30.545 –> 39:31.606

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I am more than happy.

                  39:32.386 –> 39:53.906

                  [SPEAKER_01]: to help you out with my wisdom and that goes with men as well because if I’ve been working for somebody I think I probably would have cut back to two or three days a week I probably would have maybe tried to take a sabbatical or something so it has a big impact with your male or female if you are employing women working with women you’re going to be experiencing potentially this as well.

                  39:53.946 –> 39:57.550

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Admittedly I had it quite badly it’s taking quite a lot to get it right but

                  39:58.490 –> 40:07.912

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I wish I’d known been more proactive in knowing more to be ready as soon as I saw the warning signs and I ignored them because I didn’t understand what they were.

                  40:09.573 –> 40:11.773

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Right, I said I was going to give you an e-commerce one.

                  40:12.073 –> 40:14.294

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Let’s stop with a naval gazing clay.

                  40:14.494 –> 40:17.955

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Let’s actually give people some more help on the e-commerce space.

                  40:18.415 –> 40:19.175

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And this one.

                  40:20.055 –> 40:22.577

                  [SPEAKER_01]: is one it’s really easy to ignore this mistake.

                  40:22.597 –> 40:31.704

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It’s really easy to do it and it’s a bit of a pivot on the, well the one I showed earlier with you about setting it up once and thinking it’s completed.

                  40:31.785 –> 40:36.308

                  [SPEAKER_01]: That was about going back to optimise the activity and improve the activity.

                  40:36.889 –> 40:39.671

                  [SPEAKER_01]: This one, though, is about keeping the content accurate.

                  40:39.751 –> 40:41.472

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So it’s very much about

                  40:42.593 –> 40:44.714

                  [SPEAKER_01]: automated content being accurate.

                  40:44.794 –> 40:54.616

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So if you have a lovely email welcome campaign that has images of the latest collection in it, how often do you update those images?

                  40:54.856 –> 41:03.978

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you have a reminder in your project management tool to say, today’s the day we need to go and do the quarterly change of all the images in our automated email sequences?

                  41:05.282 –> 41:06.143

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, no.

                  41:06.623 –> 41:07.923

                  [SPEAKER_01]: You do need one of those.

                  41:08.744 –> 41:11.325

                  [SPEAKER_01]: It’s also when it comes to adverts.

                  41:11.886 –> 41:13.567

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We’ve all seen and screen grabbed it.

                  41:13.607 –> 41:17.889

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, look, there’s still doing doing a black Friday advert in January and all the rest of it, right?

                  41:18.209 –> 41:23.332

                  [SPEAKER_01]: That stuff you need to make sure you are ready to bring that down when it stops performing.

                  41:23.872 –> 41:41.426

                  [SPEAKER_01]: partly because it gives people like me a giggle and something to post about if we’re feet for in that kind of clickbaiting video on social, but also because it’s going to be costing you money and yet may still be driving a bit of traffic, but I bet you something that’s accurate to season, to collection, etc, is going to be doing better for you.

                  41:41.486 –> 41:41.687

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So,

                  41:43.128 –> 41:53.626

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Make sure your seasonal and your automated content is accurate, set those reminders, make sure it comes down at the right time to save you money and to improve those relations with your customers.

                  41:55.992 –> 41:56.873

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think that was 15.

                  41:56.913 –> 41:58.454

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I think there might have been a duplicates.

                  41:58.474 –> 42:02.196

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We may be down at 14, but you didn’t need to listen to me count.

                  42:02.316 –> 42:03.297

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So we’re not going to do that.

                  42:03.857 –> 42:06.879

                  [SPEAKER_01]: But thank you so much for listening to Episode 600.

                  42:06.999 –> 42:15.464

                  [SPEAKER_01]: You can get your hands on our notes from the episode, including the full list of the mistakes I’ve just run through and links to

                  42:17.025 –> 42:21.767

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you add any, I’m mentioning I think it needs a link, but anyway, that we stuff over at ecommercemasterplanned.com.

                  42:22.307 –> 42:24.487

                  [SPEAKER_01]: You could also use our direct episode short links.

                  42:24.507 –> 42:26.608

                  [SPEAKER_01]: They’re available for every single episode.

                  42:26.668 –> 42:31.870

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Just put ECMP dot info forward slash the number of the episode into the URL bar.

                  42:31.890 –> 42:33.570

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And you’ll go straight to the right episode page.

                  42:33.610 –> 42:40.412

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So for this one, it is ECMP dot info forward slash six zero zero for six hundred.

                  42:40.812 –> 42:41.993

                  [SPEAKER_01]: The mighty six hundred.

                  42:42.633 –> 42:46.256

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And when you get to the website, you can also add yourself to our email list.

                  42:46.576 –> 42:50.579

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So you don’t miss out on any of the other things I share to help you improve your business.

                  42:50.619 –> 42:52.761

                  [SPEAKER_01]: So it’s well worth getting yourself on that list.

                  42:52.841 –> 42:53.762

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I know I would say that.

                  42:53.822 –> 42:58.125

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I have already admitted we’re working on list growth, but it would be lovely if you came and joined on newsletter.

                  42:59.046 –> 43:04.590

                  [SPEAKER_01]: If you liked this episode, then I’m not going to recommend a specific episode because we’re not

                  43:05.250 –> 43:10.013

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We’ve done a couple of like closing businesses and things, but we’ve not really done anything else that fits with mistakes.

                  43:10.033 –> 43:24.660

                  [SPEAKER_01]: There’s no obvious place to send you, but if you scroll back up your podcast feed, there’s over 600 episodes there packed with advice to help you avoid mistakes to help you grow your e-commerce door so come pick something that looks interesting and have a listen.

                  43:25.280 –> 43:31.003

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of The Ecommerce Master Plan podcast and for being one of our awesome listeners.

                  43:31.383 –> 43:36.666

                  [SPEAKER_01]: We create all this to help you build your business at always brilliant when you tune in and get something from the show.

                  43:37.187 –> 43:42.049

                  [SPEAKER_01]: And a huge thanks to the team behind the podcast because it very much is not just me.

                  43:42.690 –> 43:48.433

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Huge thanks to April, Christine, Miriam and Chidimmer for all the work you do on our content and marketing.

                  43:48.773 –> 43:53.616

                  [SPEAKER_01]: Plus, too, Isabella, Gaston and the team at Music Radio Creative, all the edits.

                  43:54.236 –> 43:58.102

                  [SPEAKER_01]: I hope you have a great week, everybody, and don’t forget to keep up to rising.

                  45 min
                • eCommerce MasterPlan | 599: 5 Big Wins You Get with an AI Shopping Assistant

                  Yaël de Keijzer and Anna Atmis are from Doofinder. Doofinder has been helping eCommerce brands improve product discovery and search experiences for over 15 years. Today, more than 10,000 online stores worldwide use the platform to create faster, smarter, and more intuitive shopping experiences through AI-powered technology. 

                  In this episode, they break down how AI shopping assistants are changing the eCommerce experience for both brands and customers. From improving product discovery and increasing conversions to uncovering hidden customer insights, this conversation is packed with practical ideas for eCommerce businesses looking to grow smarter with AI. 

                  Hit PLAY to hear:  

                  • 1️⃣ How AI shopping assistants close the eCommerce “finding gap” and recover lost sales
                  • 2️⃣ The smarter way to upsell and cross-sell without frustrating customers
                  • 3️⃣ How your store can keep selling and answering questions 24/7
                  • 4️⃣ Why “no results” searches could reveal your next biggest sales opportunity
                  • 5️⃣ How AI shopping data can uncover UX issues, product gaps, and growth opportunities

                    • Key timestamps to dive straight in: 

                    [05:48] Using AI tools effectively 

                    [07:14] Closing the eCommerce Finding Gap 

                    [11:14] Optimizing cross-sell strategies 

                    [14:08] Using AI to boost sales 

                    [18:10] Importance of integrated AI in eCommerce 

                    [22:00] AI in everyday shopping 

                    [25:01] Finding your ideal customer 

                    [26:37] Listen to Yaël and Anna’s Top Tips! 

                    [34:02] Episode sponsored by Doofinder. Grab their 15-day trial at Doofinder.com. 

                    Full episode notes here: https://ecmp.info/599  

                    Episode sponsored by Doofinder. Grab their 15-day trial at Doofinder.com. 

                    —

                    Download our ebook… https://ecmp.info/ebook 500 Tips to Increase Your Profits

                    Get all the links and resources we mention and join our email list at https://ecmp.info

                    Love the show? Chloe would love your feedback – leave a review here: https://ecmp.info/review or reply to the episode QandA on Spotify.

                    Interested in being a Sponsor? go here: https://ecmp.info/sponsor

                    Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

                    Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

                    WEBVTT

                    00:00.499 –> 00:14.362

                    [SPEAKER_00]: The future of shopping on the shopping journey in general is going to be more personalized, more intuitive and AI assistance in general will become part of our day to day life, however, we still need human support.

                    00:14.622 –> 00:16.483

                    [SPEAKER_00]: It both needs to go hand in hand.

                    00:16.583 –> 00:20.504

                    [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don’t think we can trust fully AI here.

                    00:23.078 –> 00:25.459

                    [SPEAKER_02]: It’s the e-commerce master plan podcast.

                    00:26.019 –> 00:30.101

                    [SPEAKER_02]: Here to help you solve your marketing problems and grow your e-commerce business.

                    00:30.601 –> 00:38.405

                    [SPEAKER_02]: Cutting through the hive, to bring you inspiration and advice from the e-commerce sector and beyond, here’s your host, Chloe Thomas.

                    00:41.600 –> 00:44.183

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Hello and welcome, it’s great to have you here.

                    00:44.263 –> 00:48.247

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for hitting play and choosing to listen to one of our inspiring guests.

                    00:48.987 –> 00:54.152

                    [SPEAKER_03]: In this episode, I get to catch up with the awesome team from DoFinder.

                    00:54.773 –> 01:01.179

                    [SPEAKER_03]: The talk about AI at the moment is far greater than the number of brands using AI.

                    01:01.219 –> 01:01.420

                    [SPEAKER_03]: So,

                    01:01.960 –> 01:17.970

                    [SPEAKER_03]: In this episode, we’re going to be getting super practical to try and shift the balance on that, to try and help a large swathive work out one way in which you should be using AI in your business on the front end of your business and give you some clear guidance as to how it could help you out.

                    01:18.670 –> 01:23.093

                    [SPEAKER_03]: So we’ve teamed up with D-Finders, do this to bring you kind of the ins and outs of how to unlock.

                    01:23.514 –> 01:29.338

                    [SPEAKER_03]: One of what I think is one of the most powerful opportunities with AI, AI assistance on the front end of your store.

                    01:30.139 –> 01:37.364

                    [SPEAKER_03]: We, I think it’s powerful, as you’ll hear me reiterate in the episode, because for AI search, you’ve got to be improving all your product data.

                    01:37.684 –> 01:41.227

                    [SPEAKER_03]: And AI assistance on the front end of your store needs great product data.

                    01:41.587 –> 01:41.667

                    [SPEAKER_03]: So

                    01:42.568 –> 01:46.290

                    [SPEAKER_03]: doing that work, why wouldn’t you leverage it in every angle that you can?

                    01:46.770 –> 02:05.639

                    [SPEAKER_03]: We’ll be going into five big wins you can get from an AI assistant on your store and I think I use the word Holy Grail too many times in this episode and I nearly used a lot more because this is some stuff which is going to solve problems that we’ve had for decades and I really do mean decades in the industry.

                    02:06.299 –> 02:07.220

                    [SPEAKER_03]: So have a listen.

                    02:08.100 –> 02:12.887

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Get clear on what the potential is here and then have a go at doing it, I suppose.

                    02:13.387 –> 02:25.324

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Please listen to the end because both my guests are sharing a top tip each in each question and they have some brilliant answers for you and some brilliant takes on the top tip rounds so you really don’t want to miss that either.

                    02:31.032 –> 02:33.212

                    [SPEAKER_03]: and now to introduce our special guests.

                    02:33.632 –> 02:35.373

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Yale and Anna from Doofinder.

                    02:35.853 –> 02:42.394

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Doofinder has been helping e-commerce brands improve product discovery and search experiences for over 15 years.

                    02:42.834 –> 02:53.616

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Today more than 10,000 online stores worldwide use the platform to create faster, smarter, and more intuitive shopping experiences through AI powered technology.

                    02:54.016 –> 02:55.556

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Hello, Yale and Anna.

                    02:56.116 –> 02:56.897

                    [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, Chloe.

                    02:57.197 –> 02:58.017

                    [SPEAKER_00]: Nice to be here.

                    02:59.853 –> 03:10.542

                    [SPEAKER_03]: so cool to have you both on the show um love a bit of AI chat, love a bit of customer service, chat, love a bit of conversion realization, chat and personalization.

                    03:11.383 –> 03:14.105

                    [SPEAKER_03]: We’re going to be dripping in that in this interview, I know.

                    03:14.306 –> 03:19.810

                    [SPEAKER_03]: But before we get into all of that very, very juicy stuff, I’d love to know how you each got into this world of e-commerce.

                    03:19.830 –> 03:21.112

                    [SPEAKER_03]: So um yeah, can we start with you?

                    03:21.152 –> 03:22.353

                    [SPEAKER_03]: How did you end up in e-commerce?

                    03:22.813 –> 03:23.213

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Of course.

                    03:23.533 –> 03:27.334

                    [SPEAKER_01]: So my story is quite straight to the point.

                    03:27.615 –> 03:32.716

                    [SPEAKER_01]: My first job as a student wasn’t e-commerce for an online store when I was in my early 20s.

                    03:33.777 –> 03:35.817

                    [SPEAKER_01]: And I really loved that job.

                    03:36.057 –> 03:43.760

                    [SPEAKER_01]: So for me ending up in a e-commerce sauce, which do finder is it’s just a very natural extension of that first experience.

                    03:44.580 –> 03:46.861

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Just been the whole way, very cool.

                    03:47.799 –> 03:50.801

                    [SPEAKER_03]: And with that client-side experience is one in the mix.

                    03:51.301 –> 04:00.366

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that really helps, because it’s cool to see basically in technical terms from the both the front and the back end, what this industry is like.

                    04:00.906 –> 04:02.267

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Very cool, and Anna, how about you?

                    04:02.307 –> 04:03.128

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Similar or different?

                    04:03.728 –> 04:05.249

                    [SPEAKER_00]: A bit similar actually.

                    04:05.269 –> 04:11.191

                    [SPEAKER_00]: I got interested during my university studies in e-commerce and especially in that field.

                    04:11.211 –> 04:13.252

                    [SPEAKER_00]: I wrote my bachelor’s thesis about it.

                    04:13.332 –> 04:28.097

                    [SPEAKER_00]: So I had the theoretical part about brands and customer education and eventually I went up to an enterprise software Oracle ERP systems selling those and through do finder I made a switch to marketing and to the

                    04:33.319 –> 04:44.472

                    [SPEAKER_03]: explore more of that and i’m very happy it’s very it’s a very nice space to be honest it is but you’re you’re definitely one up on me my bachelor’s thesis was on medieval queen ship

                    04:46.867 –> 04:55.173

                    [SPEAKER_03]: not usually relevant to the world of e-commerce, right, and definitely not relevant to the world of AI and shopping assistance.

                    04:55.313 –> 05:05.101

                    [SPEAKER_03]: So we’re going to get into five big wins you get with AI shopping assistance, but before we get into the five before we start to reveal them, what are shopping assistance?

                    05:05.121 –> 05:10.365

                    [SPEAKER_03]: You know, where does this kind of line lie around what isn’t isn’t an AI shopping assistant?

                    05:10.605 –> 05:11.946

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Anna, can I throw that one at you please?

                    05:12.515 –> 05:29.417

                    [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, basically a lot of people confuse that actually because they think it’s like a regular checkbot, which it’s not it’s really, you can imagine like a human assistant, it’s just a shopping assistant in your store interacting with you and understanding the human language, basically.

                    05:29.997 –> 05:47.678

                    [SPEAKER_00]: It can help your store in many ways and do find a launch this year the AI assistant where we really want to showcase also what are the big wins that you can achieve when using this tool because it’s so different that what you’ve seen before.

                    05:48.363 –> 05:50.104

                    [SPEAKER_03]: It’s what we keep finding with AI isn’t it?

                    05:50.144 –> 05:53.205

                    [SPEAKER_03]: It’s like, okay, you’ve got the tool, but you need to know how to use it.

                    05:53.725 –> 05:56.166

                    [SPEAKER_03]: And so many people are brilliant.

                    05:56.287 –> 05:59.168

                    [SPEAKER_03]: I’ve got the one that converts my voice into text.

                    05:59.508 –> 06:01.669

                    [SPEAKER_03]: It’s like, you work in an open plan office.

                    06:01.689 –> 06:03.030

                    [SPEAKER_03]: You’re going to drive everyone mad.

                    06:03.210 –> 06:09.452

                    [SPEAKER_03]: This is not, you know, if you thought this through, but it’s one, it’s having the tool and then it’s name how to use it, which is why it’s so cool.

                    06:09.873 –> 06:14.815

                    [SPEAKER_03]: We’ve got you guys here to run through how you’re seeing people use it and that the key ways of making it pay so.

                    06:16.130 –> 06:19.412

                    [SPEAKER_03]: let count down I suppose or a list I suppose rather than a count down.

                    06:19.872 –> 06:22.393

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Number one, Yale, you’ve got number one for us.

                    06:22.413 –> 06:27.216

                    [SPEAKER_03]: So what is our number one big win with an AI shopping assistant please?

                    06:28.618 –> 06:36.261

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, before I go into the Bitcoin, I really quickly just want to say that it’s very important to do research because shopping assistants are very different.

                    06:36.381 –> 06:46.104

                    [SPEAKER_01]: So we are basing these five big wins on the capabilities of do-finers AI shopping assistants specifically because it has such a wide capabilities.

                    06:46.244 –> 06:49.805

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Does that mean that every shopping assistant is able to do what we can do?

                    06:49.825 –> 06:51.005

                    [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, I think that’s brilliant.

                    06:51.045 –> 06:53.146

                    [SPEAKER_03]: It’s a perfect caveat to everyone.

                    06:53.186 –> 06:55.087

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Because I think, you know, there are

                    06:55.807 –> 07:04.295

                    [SPEAKER_03]: you know, someone will be getting, oh, I can spin up my own AI shopping assistant in whatever vibe coding tool they’re currently using, but it’s not going to necessarily be the same.

                    07:04.355 –> 07:08.659

                    [SPEAKER_03]: So just like you don’t use Gmail for the same things you use Clavio for.

                    07:08.899 –> 07:10.460

                    [SPEAKER_03]: No, that’s what we’re talking about here.

                    07:10.500 –> 07:11.301

                    [SPEAKER_03]: So I love that.

                    07:11.461 –> 07:13.023

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you very much for mentioning that.

                    07:13.083 –> 07:14.004

                    [SPEAKER_03]: What’s number one, though?

                    07:14.885 –> 07:22.772

                    [SPEAKER_01]: The first big win that we would like to talk about is one that we showcase the most, but it’s still not always clear to everyone.

                    07:22.792 –> 07:26.075

                    [SPEAKER_01]: And it is about closing the finding gap in e-commerce.

                    07:26.455 –> 07:34.323

                    [SPEAKER_01]: So the finding gap is basically the gap between how customers search for a product, and how this product is actually stored in your catalog.

                    07:34.963 –> 07:41.792

                    [SPEAKER_01]: So let’s say, for example, a customer might be typing something like their in a store and they’re typing something to unlock my sink.

                    07:42.152 –> 07:45.136

                    [SPEAKER_01]: The actual product of your store might be listed very differently.

                    07:45.156 –> 07:47.760

                    [SPEAKER_01]: It could be in a brand name or you could have a plunger.

                    07:48.000 –> 07:53.046

                    [SPEAKER_01]: But because the store in the product in a store is listed differently, the customer doesn’t find the product.

                    07:53.647 –> 07:59.708

                    [SPEAKER_01]: And this finding gap specifically costs e-commerce about to trillion USD a year globally.

                    08:00.189 –> 08:01.329

                    [SPEAKER_01]: So that’s a lot of money.

                    08:01.889 –> 08:19.393

                    [SPEAKER_01]: With an advanced AI assistant, you can reach that gap because instead of matching keywords between what someone types and what is stored in your back end, in your catalogue, it understands the real intent of what someone is typing and is also able to ask the necessary follow-up questions.

                    08:20.073 –> 08:26.541

                    [SPEAKER_01]: So in our specific example, an AI assistant might ask, how bad is the blockage of your sink?

                    08:27.062 –> 08:31.648

                    [SPEAKER_01]: And that way, it can guide you to the specific product that you need, and you don’t lose it.

                    08:31.788 –> 08:36.614

                    [SPEAKER_01]: So your store is not part of this two trillion problem that we’re talking about.

                    08:37.215 –> 08:39.936

                    [SPEAKER_03]: feels to me like one of the holy grails of e-commerce.

                    08:40.537 –> 08:59.185

                    [SPEAKER_03]: You know, and as I may use that phrase again, as we get through this chat, but it’s like, look, it’s something I think we’ve been trying to solve since my very first days, 20 years ago working in stores, trying to go, well, in that those days, it was which fields in the database should we allow search to look at before search

                    09:03.550 –> 09:05.371

                    [SPEAKER_01]: It’s really interesting to see, because it’s true.

                    09:05.671 –> 09:14.753

                    [SPEAKER_01]: My first experience in e-commerce, a big part of my job was entering as many keywords as I could think of into our database to match these products.

                    09:14.793 –> 09:17.034

                    [SPEAKER_01]: And it was a lot of time, and it still wouldn’t work well.

                    09:17.634 –> 09:20.135

                    [SPEAKER_01]: So it’s a problem that’s been around forever.

                    09:20.895 –> 09:30.059

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but hopefully in a couple of years time when we’re talking like this in front of newbies to the industry that would be like, what you had to write keyword, yes, we did.

                    09:30.079 –> 09:31.820

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Handlessly.

                    09:31.840 –> 09:34.541

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so so love that.

                    09:34.561 –> 09:37.823

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, shall we go on to number two and are you got number two, haven’t you?

                    09:38.503 –> 09:38.844

                    [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

                    09:38.864 –> 09:56.307

                    [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, what we also think is helpful or is a big win through our AI is upselling and crossselling in the moment and traditionally sometimes upselling and crossselling can feel a bit aggressive or too pushy and this you can definitely remove.

                    09:56.947 –> 10:13.353

                    [SPEAKER_00]: And when you use the AI assistant, the whole dialogue becomes more human, conversational, contextual, and the AI assistant understands what the customer is actually trying to buy or solve in that moment.

                    10:13.753 –> 10:23.756

                    [SPEAKER_00]: I have some examples, I mean, I have so many in my head, we are talking non-stop to clients, and I see a lot, but one was actually like, for example, if a customer is buying

                    10:26.017 –> 10:32.663

                    [SPEAKER_00]: the AI assistant can suggest related products like gloves and this is a good example for cross-selling.

                    10:33.184 –> 10:41.312

                    [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn’t come off as pushy because you know it’s very natural and in upselling it’s the same case where it’s as well.

                    10:41.792 –> 10:44.515

                    [SPEAKER_00]: I had one speech actually with a baking e-commerce.

                    10:45.035 –> 10:48.459

                    [SPEAKER_00]: Imagine you have your one, you want to throw a party for an 11-year-old.

                    10:49.139 –> 11:14.590

                    [SPEAKER_00]: and then you just chat with the AI assistant and ask, hey, what do I need, what can I buy, and then the AI assistant will give you some inspiration, and can suggest you like, okay, maybe you can get this bundle here, or a larger beginner kit for baking a cake, something like that, and then you can sell a lot of products very easily, you know, from different kinds of categories, let’s say.

                    11:15.134 –> 11:18.876

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Again, it’s like another holy grail thing that we’ve been trying to get right in.

                    11:18.916 –> 11:22.078

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Do you put the cross set in the checkout or do you put the cross out earlier?

                    11:22.138 –> 11:27.000

                    [SPEAKER_03]: How do you use the customers also bought products on the product listing page?

                    11:27.521 –> 11:38.687

                    [SPEAKER_03]: And to be able to and I think I think where so many stores have come on stuck with it in the past is that you try and create one model for everything.

                    11:39.327 –> 11:42.868

                    [SPEAKER_03]: You know, like, you’re to take your, your, um, uh, set yearals drain cleaner.

                    11:43.329 –> 11:44.369

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Example from earlier.

                    11:44.769 –> 11:47.030

                    [SPEAKER_03]: If you’re a hardwester, you’re probably selling drain cleaner.

                    11:47.050 –> 11:50.672

                    [SPEAKER_03]: You’re probably also selling, you know, which is a consumable product.

                    11:50.792 –> 11:54.993

                    [SPEAKER_03]: You’re probably also selling a broom, which should last you for a few years.

                    11:55.374 –> 12:01.616

                    [SPEAKER_03]: And it’s like the cross cells for those products are so completely different and come across so many such different rule sets.

                    12:01.636 –> 12:02.477

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

                    12:02.497 –> 12:03.737

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Did it just become so difficult?

                    12:03.777 –> 12:05.758

                    [SPEAKER_03]: I love, I love that example.

                    12:06.438 –> 12:09.981

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, number three, yeah, we’re back to you for this one only.

                    12:10.461 –> 12:11.282

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we are.

                    12:11.862 –> 12:20.188

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Set a third big win with AI shopping assistant is that it can help your stool store to truly sell around the clock.

                    12:20.988 –> 12:29.154

                    [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, customers day, enter your store and they shop at all times of day, but what we forget about is that a lot of customers also have questions.

                    12:29.714 –> 12:33.037

                    [SPEAKER_01]: And these questions they can be about a product itself.

                    12:33.837 –> 12:36.540

                    [SPEAKER_01]: or about your store, your stores policies.

                    12:37.541 –> 12:47.212

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Now, if your store is closed, and at that moment, you’re not able to answer a question, your customer might go to another store, or the potential customer might go to another store and buy it there.

                    12:48.013 –> 12:52.297

                    [SPEAKER_01]: With an AI assistant, like do-finders you’re able to upload whatever documentation,

                    12:53.158 –> 12:54.199

                    [SPEAKER_01]: you wanted to have.

                    12:54.439 –> 12:57.640

                    [SPEAKER_01]: So this could be anything any store policy.

                    12:57.800 –> 13:03.263

                    [SPEAKER_01]: If you have technical products, it could be very detailed specifications about your products.

                    13:03.823 –> 13:07.385

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Really anything that you feel like will help your customers to

                    13:08.710 –> 13:11.371

                    [SPEAKER_01]: be able to answer questions in whatever moment.

                    13:11.511 –> 13:15.953

                    [SPEAKER_01]: So that’s huge benefit because you’re now not losing customers.

                    13:16.353 –> 13:27.617

                    [SPEAKER_01]: But a second benefit is also it really frees up your customer support teams to focus only on the conversations that really need to be held in as a human rather than with AI.

                    13:28.620 –> 13:46.671

                    [SPEAKER_03]: And of course, that while it never sleeps part, your customer service team are going to come into a chat that’s already happened and then been passed to them, whether there’s more information, so they can go back with the better answer than if they were coming in to the blank, you know, the one question rather than the actual conversation that’s gone on with it.

                    13:46.951 –> 13:47.171

                    [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

                    13:47.451 –> 13:53.753

                    [SPEAKER_03]: It amuses me, we call it, you know, that we’re calling it the store that never sleeps, because since the days become as bad, I make money while I sleep.

                    13:53.833 –> 13:57.414

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but you can make more money while you sleep.

                    13:57.454 –> 13:57.975

                    [SPEAKER_01]: What was that?

                    13:58.035 –> 13:59.855

                    [SPEAKER_01]: It makes all your money while you sleep.

                    13:59.955 –> 14:01.136

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Just the next step.

                    14:01.776 –> 14:02.096

                    [SPEAKER_01]: So.

                    14:02.916 –> 14:03.476

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.

                    14:03.596 –> 14:03.817

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Cool.

                    14:03.857 –> 14:07.858

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, number number four, and what have you got for us?

                    14:08.549 –> 14:14.714

                    [SPEAKER_00]: All right, another big win is turning no results into sales, which is my absolute favorite.

                    14:15.155 –> 14:28.767

                    [SPEAKER_00]: Basically, the AI assistant is not only helping customers to find products, but it’s also helping brands understand demand and customer behavior and also potential catalog gaps way, way better.

                    14:29.427 –> 14:38.753

                    [SPEAKER_00]: And we had one example with a toy store where we saw that the clients were looking for toys for kids with ADHD.

                    14:39.493 –> 14:42.895

                    [SPEAKER_00]: And in that case, this toy store did not provide this.

                    14:43.415 –> 14:47.458

                    [SPEAKER_00]: And through those searches and no results, they implemented in their store.

                    14:47.498 –> 14:50.259

                    [SPEAKER_00]: So you can use it for your business intelligence, for your strategy.

                    14:50.520 –> 14:51.380

                    [SPEAKER_00]: You can work with it.

                    14:52.020 –> 14:56.063

                    [SPEAKER_00]: And you can either incorporate products into your shop.

                    14:56.463 –> 15:01.072

                    [SPEAKER_00]: or create them on your own, so there are endless possibilities and it’s my absolute favorite.

                    15:01.817 –> 15:07.542

                    [SPEAKER_03]: I suppose you’ve got like the two prong part of that have a new which is the when that customer hits the dead end.

                    15:08.322 –> 15:10.604

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Your AI assistant is there ready to go.

                    15:10.624 –> 15:15.248

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Oh hold on, we spell it slightly differently because we’re being weird.

                    15:15.468 –> 15:18.390

                    [SPEAKER_03]: So, and over here in your final category, follow what you want.

                    15:18.830 –> 15:28.398

                    [SPEAKER_03]: But then we’re capturing ever more data, which obviously the more AI is brilliant at shifting through that data to then give us the recommendations for improving the business as well.

                    15:28.863 –> 15:33.665

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and there’s two sites to it, because in the do finder dashboard, you’re able to analyze yourself.

                    15:34.565 –> 15:42.949

                    [SPEAKER_01]: And you can also see do finder gives errors when the ISIS hasn’t been able to give an answer that they’re fully happy with.

                    15:43.429 –> 15:48.871

                    [SPEAKER_01]: So you can go into these answers and look at the data that you should give, for example, to improve that.

                    15:49.372 –> 15:53.974

                    [SPEAKER_01]: But also, you can then see which products might be actually missing from your catalog.

                    15:54.314 –> 15:56.475

                    [SPEAKER_01]: And similarly, you get a summary

                    15:57.695 –> 16:05.185

                    [SPEAKER_01]: that describes to you what conversations have been held with the AI assistant and what is important to maybe, you know, give more attention to.

                    16:06.208 –> 16:11.029

                    [SPEAKER_03]: it’s so many bits and pieces right before I go off on a tangent asking you lots of questions.

                    16:11.429 –> 16:16.951

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Let’s finish off with number five because we need to get through through the five because everyone wants to know what the five big wins are.

                    16:17.431 –> 16:19.351

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah we’re back on you for number five please.

                    16:19.771 –> 16:27.093

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah so the five one is the fifth one is very connected to the previous one but it’s one of a lot of people don’t really think about.

                    16:28.408 –> 16:42.382

                    [SPEAKER_01]: As you can go through the data and look in the dashboard to see what kind of conversations people are having with the AI assistant, you will not only find product caps, but you can also find real navigation issues, UX issues,

                    16:43.552 –> 16:50.398

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Really, anything that can inform not only your product assortment strategy, but your entire business strategy.

                    16:50.458 –> 16:53.720

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Because people come in with the most surprising questions.

                    16:54.221 –> 16:57.764

                    [SPEAKER_01]: They’ll ask you if you have a store in a certain city, a certain country.

                    16:58.684 –> 17:07.251

                    [SPEAKER_01]: And it’s a perfect way to do market research without having to actually, you know, spend all the resources of market research.

                    17:09.273 –> 17:14.914

                    [SPEAKER_03]: I love the way you phrase it, but for me, I think of it as being like, I’ve run out of things to say in my newsletter.

                    17:15.654 –> 17:24.836

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, look, there’s some ideas, or we’ve run out of things to test, or we’re not sure where we should go next, and then you see like, all right, three people have asked us about having a storing Copenhagen.

                    17:25.356 –> 17:25.476

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

                    17:25.636 –> 17:33.158

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Let’s research and see if that’s where they’re not, let’s open a store in Copenhagen, but it kind of gives you a load of hypotheses to go off and test.

                    17:33.937 –> 17:34.458

                    [SPEAKER_03]: afterwards.

                    17:34.978 –> 17:36.200

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I spent there.

                    17:36.660 –> 17:39.043

                    [SPEAKER_01]: And things you haven’t normally thought of at all.

                    17:39.403 –> 17:41.585

                    [SPEAKER_01]: People are very surprised when they go through the data.

                    17:42.086 –> 17:44.869

                    [SPEAKER_01]: So it really helps your story to always kind of be a step ahead.

                    17:45.449 –> 17:46.390

                    [SPEAKER_01]: This will be like this day.

                    17:47.131 –> 17:54.259

                    [SPEAKER_03]: We used to collecting data from certain sources, you know, the search bar, the customer service element, but this kind of feels more

                    17:55.886 –> 18:06.398

                    [SPEAKER_03]: more interactive, because it quickly gets to another layer, which, you know, the traditional customer service chat, you’re waiting and you’re waiting, whereas with this you’re not really waiting, so you’re likely to get more out of the customer.

                    18:06.418 –> 18:09.442

                    [SPEAKER_03]: So we’re getting deeper, richer data from different places.

                    18:09.802 –> 18:10.703

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, absolutely.

                    18:11.064 –> 18:15.128

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Which brings us onto the question I stopped myself from asking when we were going through the five.

                    18:15.969 –> 18:19.070

                    [SPEAKER_03]: which is this delivers in in so many ways.

                    18:19.090 –> 18:30.274

                    [SPEAKER_03]: We’ve been talking about the back end, the front end, the research data, the helping the customer who’s proactively wanting help, the helping the customer who doesn’t realise they need help, proactively helping the customer who knows they need help but isn’t going to ask for it.

                    18:30.294 –> 18:38.837

                    [SPEAKER_03]: You know, we’ve got all these different sides of it going on and I’m sure there’s people say, oh well we can build that bit, we could build that bit or we’ve already got something that does that bit.

                    18:39.477 –> 18:40.798

                    [SPEAKER_03]: But tell me if you

                    18:45.109 –> 18:49.786

                    [SPEAKER_03]: AI success in e-commerce is going to be about those who have

                    18:51.124 –> 18:56.105

                    [SPEAKER_03]: the well-trained AI agents, coupled with the right data.

                    18:56.885 –> 18:59.166

                    [SPEAKER_03]: All right, that’s, those are the two game changes.

                    18:59.886 –> 19:11.369

                    [SPEAKER_03]: And the more of your data you can get into one place, you know, so you don’t want to be building five different data sets, you know, for the five different pieces of tech.

                    19:11.909 –> 19:14.870

                    [SPEAKER_03]: So did the benefit of having it all in one place?

                    19:15.590 –> 19:21.996

                    [SPEAKER_03]: where you’ve got your search, your merchandising, and you’ve got your AI assistant all in that one place.

                    19:22.116 –> 19:27.322

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Integrate what it needs to, then you’re building everything in one place, which makes things so much better.

                    19:27.362 –> 19:28.022

                    [SPEAKER_03]: You’re both on the way.

                    19:28.042 –> 19:29.243

                    [SPEAKER_03]: I think Anna’s nodding more.

                    19:29.584 –> 19:31.746

                    [SPEAKER_03]: And I’m guessing I’m on base with this.

                    19:31.806 –> 19:32.387

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Would you agree?

                    19:33.149 –> 19:56.326

                    [SPEAKER_00]: Now that’s the whole thing also about do finder we started with search and then we launched one feature after another just to be a platform and to fill out the whole shop and help the merchants so you don’t need other tools and it all becomes intuitive and matches your tonality the design of your shop like there is no need for other extra

                    19:57.847 –> 20:01.610

                    [SPEAKER_00]: software solutions or you know it’s all in one moment.

                    20:02.171 –> 20:06.735

                    [SPEAKER_03]: And that that big trend of streamlining the tech stack that we’re seeing people doing as well.

                    20:07.055 –> 20:10.518

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, are you seeing that being an important thing for the customers who are coming to you at the moment?

                    20:11.138 –> 20:13.560

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it’s definitely see a trend of

                    20:14.858 –> 20:25.205

                    [SPEAKER_01]: SaaS solutions like do finders moving to arts being a platform, because they keep growing, keep offering different solutions that in the end are interconnected.

                    20:25.845 –> 20:31.108

                    [SPEAKER_01]: And the reason for that is as you mentioned, as a customer, we’re getting quite, how do you say it?

                    20:31.969 –> 20:32.990

                    [SPEAKER_01]: It’s quite luxurious.

                    20:33.070 –> 20:35.872

                    [SPEAKER_01]: The experience that we’re offered in a lot of stores.

                    20:36.132 –> 20:37.953

                    [SPEAKER_01]: And so you have to keep up with that.

                    20:38.253 –> 20:42.096

                    [SPEAKER_01]: And a good user experience is not just something anymore that

                    20:44.963 –> 21:09.731

                    [SPEAKER_01]: And so in that sense, it’s important that the software you’re using is easily integrated with one another so that the experience so not only for you as a store owner you have the data on one place and you know exactly what’s happening, but also so the customer feels like they’re in a fluid experience and they’re indeed not sent from on place to the other because it’s felt what that happens.

                    21:10.447 –> 21:11.348

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, very much so.

                    21:11.528 –> 21:12.429

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, very much so.

                    21:12.449 –> 21:30.364

                    [SPEAKER_03]: And the worst thing you can do in customer services, you know, they’ve asked the chat, but all the, all the AI assistant and they’ve heard all the skirt is really 20 centimeters pretty too short for a skirt isn’t it the skirt is 50 centimeters long and then they speak to customer service and they go, no, no, it’s not it’s 70 and you’re like, yeah, what my, I mean, A.

                    21:31.628 –> 21:39.712

                    [SPEAKER_03]: how tall is your model for it to look like both of those, but yeah, but it just that creates so much less trust than not having the number in the first place.

                    21:39.752 –> 21:41.613

                    [SPEAKER_03]: So that consistency is critical.

                    21:42.194 –> 21:51.678

                    [SPEAKER_03]: And obviously there’s there’s plenty of opportunity right now with these AI assistants, but as we’re seeing the world of AI is moving at speed.

                    21:51.778 –> 21:56.101

                    [SPEAKER_03]: So where do you see this affecting the online shopping

                    22:01.117 –> 22:16.909

                    [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we already talked a bit about it that the future of shopping on the shopping journey in general is going to be more personalized, more intuitive and AI assistance in general will become part of like our day to day life and you mentioned,

                    22:21.813 –> 22:30.205

                    [SPEAKER_00]: And also said that, I mean, AI is here to stay and that even now people are using it and me myself as well.

                    22:30.305 –> 22:37.374

                    [SPEAKER_00]: I already write with chatchip to your gem and I, you know, if I’m looking for a product or do my research, so it is already starting.

                    22:38.055 –> 22:39.415

                    [SPEAKER_00]: And it’s going to be so quickly.

                    22:39.496 –> 22:42.336

                    [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I cannot look into the future in five to 10 years.

                    22:42.857 –> 22:52.120

                    [SPEAKER_00]: But from the Kleeveo study, it was clear that an AI assistant is going to happen this year, which we launch with two-finder, but it’s going to be normal.

                    22:52.280 –> 22:55.321

                    [SPEAKER_00]: It’s going to be everything that we are seeing now.

                    22:56.541 –> 22:59.265

                    [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, part of the whole experience we will have.

                    22:59.305 –> 23:05.072

                    [SPEAKER_00]: However, we still need human support and it both needs to go hand in hand.

                    23:05.092 –> 23:08.356

                    [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don’t think we can trust fully AI here.

                    23:10.419 –> 23:38.760

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think it’s, I find it really fascinating that any e-commerce business isn’t seeing this as one of their first AI plays, you know, even over and above using it to generate copy, like if you’re going to succeed with AI search, then you’ve got to have good quality product data, if you’re pulling all the good quality product data together, why wouldn’t you have an AI assistant improving the onsite experience.

                    23:40.139 –> 23:45.024

                    [SPEAKER_03]: to help you when you spend all that money, you know, as Browass is a getting worse and all the rest of it.

                    23:45.344 –> 23:46.766

                    [SPEAKER_03]: So it’s getting harder to recruit customers.

                    23:46.846 –> 23:51.611

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Why wouldn’t you be doing that if you’re doing the work on one, which you really can’t afford not to do the AI search work?

                    23:51.991 –> 23:54.654

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Why wouldn’t you be adding the assistant onto it as well?

                    23:54.694 –> 23:55.715

                    [SPEAKER_03]: It seems madness to me.

                    23:56.532 –> 23:59.655

                    [SPEAKER_01]: When we’re talking about data, it’s also quite interesting.

                    24:00.376 –> 24:04.500

                    [SPEAKER_01]: There’s a lot of different tools out there that can help you provide the right data.

                    24:04.640 –> 24:08.104

                    [SPEAKER_01]: It’s not something that, as we just spoke about, you have to all do by yourself.

                    24:08.264 –> 24:16.653

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Even when we do find that we have a product, AI visual tagging that is able to collect from images different type of product data.

                    24:16.833 –> 24:18.755

                    [SPEAKER_01]: So you don’t have to manually add everything.

                    24:19.696 –> 24:24.978

                    [SPEAKER_01]: So in that sense, having to write data, it’s also not something you have to do fully by yourself.

                    24:25.019 –> 24:25.979

                    [SPEAKER_01]: There’s tools for that.

                    24:26.879 –> 24:28.180

                    [SPEAKER_01]: I still see that as magic.

                    24:29.981 –> 24:36.264

                    [SPEAKER_03]: That it will look at our product page and the product imagery, and then go, these are the things you need to add into your diet.

                    24:36.664 –> 24:37.504

                    [SPEAKER_03]: I think that is just.

                    24:37.644 –> 24:41.846

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, all of it is a little magic to me, even working in this space.

                    24:41.906 –> 24:43.007

                    [SPEAKER_01]: It’s taste and magic.

                    24:43.767 –> 24:50.215

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I know we’ve given everyone lots to think about and to make sure they’ve got their AI assistance working on and everyone.

                    24:50.235 –> 24:52.998

                    [SPEAKER_03]: There’s still plenty of time to get this in place ready for peak.

                    24:53.078 –> 24:54.279

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Do we say the P word?

                    24:54.840 –> 25:00.246

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I believe you’ve got a little challenge for the list as though just to help them really get focused on this.

                    25:00.266 –> 25:01.087

                    [SPEAKER_03]: So what’s the challenge?

                    25:01.908 –> 25:11.315

                    [SPEAKER_01]: So the challenge is if you own an online store, if you’re an e-commerce manager, I would highly suggest to find one person that matches your ideal customer.

                    25:11.375 –> 25:12.897

                    [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn’t have to be a current customer.

                    25:12.917 –> 25:27.728

                    [SPEAKER_01]: It could be an ideal customer you’d like to reach, and actually walk through your store with them, whether it’s over video call or physically, but make sure you’re doing it together and analyze this person as their

                    25:30.770 –> 25:46.899

                    [SPEAKER_01]: look if they’re hesitating anywhere, try to see if they can find certain things because a lot of the times we’re so used to the navigation in our own store, the language we use, that we lose sight of people that we’re not able to reach.

                    25:47.679 –> 25:52.182

                    [SPEAKER_01]: So I’d say a lot of stores are quite shocked by what they see.

                    25:52.202 –> 25:56.444

                    [SPEAKER_01]: It’s quite hard to step out of your own experience as sometimes here.

                    25:57.264 –> 25:57.524

                    [SPEAKER_01]: And there’s

                    26:01.822 –> 26:06.585

                    [SPEAKER_02]: E-commerce most at land is supported by some of the greatest companies in the E-commerce sector.

                    26:06.725 –> 26:08.166

                    [SPEAKER_02]: Here’s a reminder of who they are.

                    26:19.560 –> 26:24.684

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I love this section because it gives me and our listeners and really quick ideas for taking our businesses to the next level.

                    26:24.724 –> 26:33.330

                    [SPEAKER_03]: A little bit like that challenge that Yale just gave you all and just to reiterate on that, you’re not allowed to tell them how to use the website whilst they’re doing that.

                    26:33.550 –> 26:35.011

                    [SPEAKER_01]: You’re an Adelaide to say anything.

                    26:35.392 –> 26:36.493

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Just, I’m zero.

                    26:36.633 –> 26:36.853

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

                    26:37.153 –> 26:42.357

                    [SPEAKER_03]: The hardest thing in the world to do is to just to not, you know, maybe get someone to record it.

                    26:42.877 –> 26:44.038

                    [SPEAKER_03]: So you don’t button.

                    26:44.518 –> 26:45.279

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, no, sorry.

                    26:45.639 –> 26:46.500

                    [SPEAKER_03]: The top tips, Rand.

                    26:46.580 –> 26:48.802

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Yale and Anna, are you ready for the top tips?

                    26:49.662 –> 26:49.883

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

                    26:50.603 –> 26:52.986

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, let’s start with the book top tip.

                    26:53.066 –> 27:00.033

                    [SPEAKER_03]: If everyone listening to this podcast, agreed to take Friday off and read a book to make their business better, which book would you recommend?

                    27:00.394 –> 27:02.336

                    [SPEAKER_03]: And I think you’ve definitely go on for us, how many?

                    27:03.132 –> 27:05.854

                    [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I’m a huge fan of Marie Forleo.

                    27:06.314 –> 27:11.458

                    [SPEAKER_00]: I don’t know if you know her, Chloe, but yeah, she’s from the United States.

                    27:11.779 –> 27:14.200

                    [SPEAKER_00]: And her book is called Everything is Figure Outable.

                    27:14.461 –> 27:17.423

                    [SPEAKER_00]: So basically, for every problem, there’s a solution.

                    27:18.123 –> 27:22.447

                    [SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes we get stuck in our heads and less overthinking and more action.

                    27:22.887 –> 27:26.049

                    [SPEAKER_00]: And that’s what I can recommend to the listeners.

                    27:26.750 –> 27:29.050

                    [SPEAKER_03]: It sounds like one I desperately need to read.

                    27:29.271 –> 27:31.491

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Um, yeah, your book, please.

                    27:32.091 –> 27:32.371

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

                    27:32.911 –> 27:38.352

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Before I say the title, maybe really quickly want to check in with you if I pronounce it well for the English erroneous.

                    27:38.972 –> 27:39.693

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Is that the right way?

                    27:39.733 –> 27:40.893

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that’s right.

                    27:41.233 –> 27:41.473

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.

                    27:42.173 –> 27:45.914

                    [SPEAKER_01]: My book recommendation is called your erroneous zones by Wayne Dyer.

                    27:45.954 –> 27:47.734

                    [SPEAKER_01]: I’m not sure if you guys heard of it.

                    27:47.794 –> 27:50.215

                    [SPEAKER_01]: It’s quite a classic self-help book.

                    27:50.255 –> 27:51.315

                    [SPEAKER_01]: It’s not a business book.

                    27:51.495 –> 27:51.735

                    [SPEAKER_01]: But.

                    27:52.315 –> 28:10.922

                    [SPEAKER_01]: I think it fits well with the theme we just spoke about with talking to clients and trying to figure out how to experience something which might be not how you expect them to experience it because this book, the premise of it is really about identifying the assumptions and beliefs that you hold and that you’ve never really questioned.

                    28:11.182 –> 28:16.323

                    [SPEAKER_01]: It also really well exemplifies the damage that it can do without you really noticing it.

                    28:16.824 –> 28:25.026

                    [SPEAKER_01]: And so this applies well to a business too, because a lot of the times we just experience something through such a static lens.

                    28:25.386 –> 28:32.288

                    [SPEAKER_01]: And this book really helps you to question that those assumptions and step a little bit outside of it.

                    28:33.098 –> 28:33.358

                    [SPEAKER_03]: nice.

                    28:33.398 –> 28:39.780

                    [SPEAKER_03]: I mean assumptions are always bad, but the ones we don’t even realize are assumptions that are even worse.

                    28:40.280 –> 28:40.520

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

                    28:40.720 –> 28:41.260

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Love that.

                    28:41.380 –> 28:41.941

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, cool.

                    28:42.001 –> 28:43.501

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Two books to get you all going.

                    28:43.941 –> 28:49.883

                    [SPEAKER_03]: A traffic top tip which marketing method do you either prize above all others or think doesn’t get the press it deserves.

                    28:50.960 –> 28:53.722

                    [SPEAKER_01]: I’d say quality over quantity right now.

                    28:53.822 –> 28:56.644

                    [SPEAKER_01]: So traffic is getting way more expensive across the board.

                    28:56.684 –> 28:59.966

                    [SPEAKER_01]: I’m sure if you have an online store that you’ve realized that too.

                    29:00.306 –> 29:09.071

                    [SPEAKER_01]: And I think the brands that are going to win in a future are ones that stop trying to be everywhere and get really, really intentional about where they show up.

                    29:09.091 –> 29:18.357

                    [SPEAKER_01]: So one really well placed at in front of the right person is worth a lot more than 100 impressions from someone who wasn’t going to buy in the first place.

                    29:19.130 –> 29:25.460

                    [SPEAKER_03]: I think you’re so right, but as someone who’s currently trying to get more focused, it’s so hard.

                    29:26.021 –> 29:32.151

                    [SPEAKER_03]: It’s so hard, like the channels, they call to you, they call to you, they really do, and what’s your traffic advice?

                    29:33.014 –> 29:34.395

                    [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I agree as well with you.

                    29:34.415 –> 29:34.816

                    [SPEAKER_00]: I don’t know.

                    29:34.856 –> 29:35.917

                    [SPEAKER_00]: It’s not getting easier.

                    29:36.017 –> 29:38.639

                    [SPEAKER_00]: We are like that’s so much online going on.

                    29:38.999 –> 29:50.529

                    [SPEAKER_00]: But what I would also recommend is to focus on guidance and useful content so that the people can make better decisions and yeah, not just ads ads ads all over.

                    29:50.849 –> 29:54.412

                    [SPEAKER_00]: We’ve seen it, but really to educate and help.

                    29:55.036 –> 29:57.840

                    [SPEAKER_03]: I could not agree with you more on that front.

                    29:58.561 –> 30:10.698

                    [SPEAKER_03]: The tall top tip, maybe a collaboration tool, a social media plug in, a phone app or just a way of working, is there a cool little tool you use that makes you and your team more efficient day today and I can come to you first on this one, please.

                    30:11.534 –> 30:12.375

                    [SPEAKER_00]: I love Gamma.

                    30:12.855 –> 30:14.837

                    [SPEAKER_00]: I don’t know if you heard about that one.

                    30:15.037 –> 30:19.921

                    [SPEAKER_00]: Gamma, it’s if you want to do presentations like last minute presentations.

                    30:20.422 –> 30:21.583

                    [SPEAKER_00]: It’s a huge helper.

                    30:22.043 –> 30:22.544

                    [SPEAKER_00]: I love it.

                    30:22.724 –> 30:28.769

                    [SPEAKER_00]: And for the creators out there, you, um, yeah, you don’t need to spend too much time on formatting or design work.

                    30:28.949 –> 30:31.171

                    [SPEAKER_00]: Gamma does everything and it looks beautiful.

                    30:31.591 –> 30:31.952

                    [SPEAKER_00]: I love it.

                    30:32.512 –> 30:34.896

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, of course it’s slide deck, tall, but more.

                    30:35.297 –> 30:38.842

                    [SPEAKER_00]: Are you can do even more, but it’s so pretty, really.

                    30:38.903 –> 30:40.986

                    [SPEAKER_00]: It’s doing the job fantastic.

                    30:42.560 –> 30:44.222

                    [SPEAKER_03]: I will have to go and check that one out.

                    30:44.422 –> 30:45.883

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, your tool tip, please.

                    30:46.484 –> 30:49.647

                    [SPEAKER_01]: First of all, I think Gamma is really worth checking out, too.

                    30:49.667 –> 30:51.108

                    [SPEAKER_01]: It’s a great tool.

                    30:51.589 –> 30:58.315

                    [SPEAKER_01]: And then I’d like to add to that, rather than adding another tool to your list, because there’s a lot out there right now.

                    30:58.395 –> 31:04.521

                    [SPEAKER_01]: I’d suggest look at the tools you have right now and figure out if they have existing integrations that you don’t know about.

                    31:04.621 –> 31:07.124

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Because the market is changing every single day.

                    31:07.744 –> 31:11.786

                    [SPEAKER_01]: And there’s a lot of integrations you see that people aren’t aware exists.

                    31:11.947 –> 31:22.413

                    [SPEAKER_01]: So lately, there’s been a lot of developments with Claude and Canva and how you’re not able to design prompting its insane all the changes.

                    31:22.613 –> 31:30.657

                    [SPEAKER_01]: And similarly, what do finder we, if you have Clavio, you can integrate it with do finder and do your marketing emails like this.

                    31:36.941 –> 31:38.642

                    [SPEAKER_01]: stepping into a lot of new stuff.

                    31:39.522 –> 31:42.043

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, use what you’ve already got.

                    31:42.424 –> 31:44.004

                    [SPEAKER_03]: There is so much development happening.

                    31:44.044 –> 31:44.565

                    [SPEAKER_03]: It’s mad.

                    31:44.645 –> 31:49.887

                    [SPEAKER_03]: I swear I’ve had a couple of emails in the last couple of months from from software companies who’ve gone, we used to do this.

                    31:49.927 –> 31:50.627

                    [SPEAKER_03]: We now do this.

                    31:51.208 –> 31:51.448

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Yes.

                    31:51.828 –> 31:53.129

                    [SPEAKER_03]: We’re just complete pivot.

                    31:53.169 –> 31:54.289

                    [SPEAKER_03]: It’s so hard to keep track of it.

                    31:54.329 –> 31:56.750

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Also, I love that advice, both of you.

                    31:56.870 –> 32:02.373

                    [SPEAKER_03]: The carbon top tip, what’s your favorite way to reduce the carbon footprint of an e-commerce store?

                    32:03.439 –> 32:15.624

                    [SPEAKER_01]: I’d say one big thing that stands out to me is thinking off product returns and how to reduce them, because product returns are a very big contributor to carbon footprint emissions.

                    32:16.484 –> 32:23.127

                    [SPEAKER_01]: And there are a lot of tools out there that can help your store reduce returns and also in that way,

                    32:23.807 –> 32:25.228

                    [SPEAKER_01]: Make you waste less money, too.

                    32:25.828 –> 32:31.311

                    [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I’ve read a lot about virtual, close try-ons.

                    32:31.371 –> 32:31.991

                    [SPEAKER_01]: I’m not sure.

                    32:32.492 –> 32:34.053

                    [SPEAKER_01]: I’m not recommending any right now.

                    32:34.073 –> 32:38.495

                    [SPEAKER_01]: I’m not sure to what extent they’re working, but it’s definitely worth checking out.

                    32:38.555 –> 32:52.843

                    [SPEAKER_01]: And similarly with the AI assistant, if you upload real good product data, you’re able to help your customers make much better product decisions and reduce returns, which is good for your wallet and it’s good for the environment.

                    32:53.565 –> 32:55.006

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it seems so simple, doesn’t it?

                    32:55.086 –> 32:59.870

                    [SPEAKER_03]: But it is a huge piece of carbon saving advice to help the customer buy the right product.

                    33:01.191 –> 33:02.212

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Simple, they say.

                    33:02.252 –> 33:03.233

                    [SPEAKER_03]: It’s not simple at all.

                    33:03.774 –> 33:06.196

                    [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, no.

                    33:06.376 –> 33:07.957

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Anna, your carbon top tape, please.

                    33:08.397 –> 33:17.225

                    [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I would just look from the company side, how a shop is built, like with their employees, and I’m a big fan of remote work.

                    33:18.707 –> 33:26.177

                    [SPEAKER_00]: digital collaboration, so this is what I would recommend because it can work and it does work and do find a very well.

                    33:26.738 –> 33:33.908

                    [SPEAKER_00]: So reducing extra unnecessary travels to focus on the strategy, to focus on efficiency, to focus on the important things.

                    33:34.443 –> 34:01.772

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it’s huge savings to be made with that and but but you do have to have the right mindset let’s say you can’t expect it to work like it did when you’re all sat in the same office because the same you can still get the same results is what I’m trying to say but you have to approach it differently and so before we say goodbye and we really should let the listeners know where they can find do finder so tell us a little bit more about do finder and how they can can find the product.

                    34:02.372 –> 34:04.855

                    [SPEAKER_00]: You can find us at dofinder.com.

                    34:05.355 –> 34:06.577

                    [SPEAKER_00]: Very simple, very easy.

                    34:07.057 –> 34:11.061

                    [SPEAKER_00]: And then you can explore our platform for yourself.

                    34:11.542 –> 34:14.125

                    [SPEAKER_00]: We also offer a 15 day trial.

                    34:14.385 –> 34:16.367

                    [SPEAKER_00]: So definitely take advantage of that.

                    34:17.068 –> 34:20.351

                    [SPEAKER_00]: And see how do finder can work for your platform.

                    34:21.232 –> 34:21.612

                    [SPEAKER_03]: awesome.

                    34:21.652 –> 34:26.393

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Everyone’s that’s do finder.com to get get your hands on the tech.

                    34:27.033 –> 34:38.775

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and Anna, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and making what feels like an overwhelming topic makes so much more sense when you break it down and giving us all that advice.

                    34:38.795 –> 34:40.176

                    [SPEAKER_03]: We really, really do appreciate it.

                    34:40.196 –> 34:41.996

                    [SPEAKER_03]: So thank you both so much to being on the e-commerce

                    34:52.838 –> 34:58.079

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Well, a fascinating dive into what’s possible with AI shopping assistance.

                    34:58.559 –> 35:02.060

                    [SPEAKER_03]: We went through the five big wins you get with an AI shopping assistant.

                    35:02.580 –> 35:15.403

                    [SPEAKER_03]: We talked about closing the finding gap, upselling and cross selling in the moment that your store never sleeps, and, of course, your AI shopping assistant is helping customers 24, 7, with your customer service team that they’re not.

                    35:16.083 –> 35:20.606

                    [SPEAKER_03]: turning a dead end searches into sales and feeding you the insights to stay ahead.

                    35:21.807 –> 35:28.072

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Fascinating how, as we were also talking about, the way these different parts into weave.

                    35:28.092 –> 35:32.895

                    [SPEAKER_03]: You know, we’ve got the proactive customer support, the reactive customer support.

                    35:32.915 –> 35:34.837

                    [SPEAKER_03]: We’ve got all the data on the back end.

                    35:34.857 –> 35:37.819

                    [SPEAKER_03]: We’ve got it solving problems in our conversion funnels.

                    35:38.139 –> 35:41.482

                    [SPEAKER_03]: There was just a lot coming together there, which I think

                    35:42.483 –> 35:55.612

                    [SPEAKER_03]: really convinces me that one, you really should be giving this some serious thought as we go into the tailored this year in Q4 because this is a big version rate improvement there for a big improvement of all your marketing spend.

                    35:56.453 –> 36:08.642

                    [SPEAKER_03]: But of course, if you’re going to do it well, you’ve got to have the data in place to enable that assistant to do the good work for you, which means having the right product data together and so on and so forth and I strongly advise you.

                    36:09.182 –> 36:13.284

                    [SPEAKER_03]: to think carefully about where you’re going to be building that database or that product data.

                    36:13.325 –> 36:19.228

                    [SPEAKER_03]: So you’ve got it in one place that all your AI can use rather than having to build it multiple times.

                    36:19.288 –> 36:23.230

                    [SPEAKER_03]: If you’re building it multiple times, you’re inevitably going to miss things, it’s not going to get kept up to date.

                    36:24.231 –> 36:24.471

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Right.

                    36:25.071 –> 36:25.912

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Lots of cool stuff there.

                    36:25.932 –> 36:31.455

                    [SPEAKER_03]: And of course, um, do you check out the Definder tool because they’re building all of this in the one place.

                    36:31.495 –> 36:32.796

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Now, um, yeah, I mentioned there.

                    36:32.816 –> 36:35.738

                    [SPEAKER_03]: They’re also now integrating that data with Klavia as well.

                    36:36.358 –> 36:38.559

                    [SPEAKER_03]: which I know a lot of you are using Clavier.

                    36:38.579 –> 36:46.543

                    [SPEAKER_03]: You can get your hands on all our notes from this episode, including those top tips and links to what we mentioned by heading over to ecommercemasterpland.com.

                    36:47.023 –> 36:52.566

                    [SPEAKER_03]: You can also use our direct episode short link, that’s ECMP.info4sashepisode number.

                    36:53.026 –> 36:56.528

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Put that in the URL bar to go straight to the right page immediately.

                    36:57.168 –> 37:05.534

                    [SPEAKER_03]: And when you get to the website, you can also add yourself to our email list, so you didn’t miss out on any of the other things I share to help you improve your business.

                    37:06.035 –> 37:17.103

                    [SPEAKER_03]: If you like this episode, then I recommend having a listen to episode 588 from just a couple of months ago where I got to chat with Luke Bream from Ecommerce brand Valente.

                    37:17.863 –> 37:23.744

                    [SPEAKER_03]: And he’s sharing amongst other things, his tips around how he’s using AI in his business.

                    37:23.884 –> 37:29.346

                    [SPEAKER_03]: And he’s a brand owner who I think has pushed it further than most and he had some really interesting takes on it.

                    37:29.366 –> 37:30.406

                    [SPEAKER_03]: So that’s well worth a listen.

                    37:31.126 –> 37:32.787

                    [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for tuning in to this episode.

                    37:32.827 –> 37:46.050

                    [SPEAKER_03]: And every episode that you do, all of the Ecommerce Master Plan podcast, I bring you a new one every week because I want to inspire and help Ecommerce business owners like you to succeed and thrive with your businesses, including encouraging businesses and

                    37:47.010 –> 37:48.830

                    [SPEAKER_03]: to make more sustainable buying decisions.

                    37:48.890 –> 37:55.012

                    [SPEAKER_03]: So, if you know someone this show can help, please tell them to listen to the e-commerce master plan podcast.

                    37:55.912 –> 37:59.353

                    [SPEAKER_03]: I hope you have a great week and don’t forget to keep optimizing.

                    39 min
                  • eCommerce MasterPlan | 598: The Search-Driven Fashion Strategy That Helped Spirithoods Scale

                    Latif Hamilton is the creative CEO at Spirithoods, who sell animal inspired apparel and give 10% back to endangered animals. Founded in 2009, they now sell via their Shopify store and wholesale, and sell over $4 million of fashion a year. 

                     

                    In this episode, Latif shares how Spirithoods uses SEO and search trend data to shape everything from product design to launch timing and product naming. It’s a fascinating look at how eCommerce brands can blend creativity with data to drive growth, build customer demand, and stay resilient in a turbulent fashion market. 

                     

                    Hit PLAY to hear: 

                    • How Spirithoods uses SEO data to decide which products to create 
                    • The search trend strategy behind their $4M fashion brand growth 
                    • Why timing your product launches can massively impact sales 
                    • The tiny SEO tweaks that help products rank higher on Google 
                    • How festival season and pop culture drive ecommerce demand 
                    • The harsh reality of tariffs, fashion bankruptcies & surviving market chaos 

                      •  

                      Key timestamps to dive straight in: 

                      [04:38] Launching eCommerce after trade show 

                      [07:50] Preparing for business changes 

                      [11:02] Microplastic pollution and solutions 

                      [14:37] How Spirit Hoods took off 

                      [18:48] Using SEO to guide trends 

                      [19:38] Spotting trends in yellow fashion 

                      [24:44] Timing product launches with trends 

                      [26:21] Tying product development to SEO 

                      [30:13] Listen to Latif’s Top Tips! 

                       

                      Full episode notes here: https://ecmp.info/598

                      —

                      Download our ebook… https://ecmp.info/ebook 500 Tips to Increase Your Profits

                      Get all the links and resources we mention and join our email list at https://ecmp.info

                      Love the show? Chloe would love your feedback – leave a review here: https://ecmp.info/review or reply to the episode QandA on Spotify.

                      Interested in being a Sponsor? go here: https://ecmp.info/sponsor

                      Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

                      Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

                      WEBVTT

                      00:00.031 –> 00:16.656

                      [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to be a great designer, if you want to develop products that are going to move the needle, both with your existing customer and your new customer base, the smartest way that we have found is to design within the framework of using SEO to develop and to name and to create.

                      00:19.184 –> 00:22.232

                      [SPEAKER_02]: It’s the e-commerce master plan podcast.

                      00:22.252 –> 00:26.323

                      [SPEAKER_02]: Here to help you solve your marketing problems and grow your e-commerce business.

                      00:26.844 –> 00:34.965

                      [SPEAKER_02]: Cutting through the hive to bring you inspiration and advice from the e-commerce sector and beyond, here’s your host, Chloe Thomas.

                      00:37.932 –> 00:39.073

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Hello and welcome.

                      00:39.093 –> 00:40.254

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s great to have you here.

                      00:40.334 –> 00:44.018

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for hitting play and choosing to listen to one of our inspiring guests.

                      00:44.378 –> 00:47.922

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Our guest for this episode is here because he applied to be on the show.

                      00:48.342 –> 00:58.873

                      [SPEAKER_01]: So if you’ve got something you’d love to chat with me about and share with the audience just go to ECMP.info forward slash guest to apply and maybe we’ll be chatting very soon.

                      00:58.913 –> 01:05.880

                      [SPEAKER_01]: In this episode we’re chatting to the co-founder of a fascinating

                      01:05.860 –> 01:07.341

                      [SPEAKER_01]: The product’s fascinating.

                      01:07.802 –> 01:17.470

                      [SPEAKER_01]: The seasonality is quite fascinating and he is going to be sharing with us his approach to product development which is completely entwined with SEO.

                      01:17.510 –> 01:22.395

                      [SPEAKER_01]: We’ll also be having a bit of a rant about the challenges of tariffs and quite a lot of other bits in here.

                      01:22.615 –> 01:27.119

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Super inspiring episode with lots of takeaways from this one.

                      01:27.139 –> 01:34.045

                      [SPEAKER_01]: I think you’re going to really love it and make sure you stick around with the top tips because he was telling some

                      01:39.880 –> 01:42.283

                      [SPEAKER_01]: And now to introduce our special guest.

                      01:42.303 –> 01:50.454

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Latif Hamilton is the creative CEO at Spirit Hoods, who sell animal-inspired apparel and give 10% back to endangered animals.

                      01:50.915 –> 01:58.825

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Founded in 2009, they now sell via their Shopify store and wholesale and sell over $4 million of fashion a year.

                      01:58.885 –> 01:59.746

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Hello Latif.

                      02:00.347 –> 02:01.829

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, Chloe, how are you?

                      02:02.350 –> 02:02.951

                      [SPEAKER_01]: I’m good.

                      02:02.971 –> 02:04.473

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for being on the show.

                      02:04.513 –> 02:07.677

                      [SPEAKER_01]: How did you get into the world of E. Thomas?

                      02:08.197 –> 02:11.587

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Well, first of all, thanks for having me on the show.

                      02:11.828 –> 02:14.455

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I think that’s a great question.

                      02:14.475 –> 02:18.527

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, after I graduated university, I

                      02:18.710 –> 02:43.823

                      [SPEAKER_00]: launched a company with a senior partner who was really skilled in sales and it was in the residential and commercial remodeling space and not in e-commerce and it was it was really service-based and we had a lot of success and I was quite young, it was my 20s and I was telling people that we’re in their 40s and 50s what to do in terms of construction work and

                      02:43.803 –> 02:55.737

                      [SPEAKER_00]: There was some gaps there and some challenges and I realized that I was kind of, I had learned everything I needed to, you know, in that industry or in that business, I was ready to move on and so.

                      02:56.155 –> 02:58.839

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I had spent a couple of months trying to figure out what other business.

                      02:58.939 –> 03:01.242

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I’ve kind of been an entrepreneur since the beginning.

                      03:01.262 –> 03:07.250

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So I was researching businesses and, you know, one day, I’m doing that with my brother.

                      03:07.470 –> 03:12.557

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And one of our friends comes over and he tells us a story about this hat he was wearing.

                      03:12.818 –> 03:16.222

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And my brother and him used to make these hats for burning man.

                      03:16.362 –> 03:19.767

                      [SPEAKER_00]: These wonky, faux fur, animal inspired hats that were just like,

                      03:19.747 –> 03:21.491

                      [SPEAKER_00]: you know, silly and ridiculous.

                      03:22.112 –> 03:28.766

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And he had worn it out at night and then the next day and just had the craziest time people, you know, it was a product that had stopped in power.

                      03:28.826 –> 03:30.549

                      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s basically what he was trying to tell us.

                      03:31.391 –> 03:34.477

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And and we just decided, yeah, let’s, let’s do it.

                      03:34.798 –> 03:36.221

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Let’s figure this out and we did.

                      03:36.261 –> 03:40.590

                      [SPEAKER_01]: These spirit heads was the first time of dang Ecomas.

                      03:40.992 –> 04:10.999

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yeah, yeah, and that was 2009 and I had, yeah, I so I exited the other company and actually my my friends called me and I was on vacation because every year in December January construction slow and so I was on a, you know, a black sand beach doing stuff with some turtles and I’m big, big fan of animals and so that’s also a part of our of our of our line we give 10% back 10% net profits back to endangered animals.

                      04:10.979 –> 04:22.778

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And anyways, that, yeah, they called me and they were saying, hey, we’ve got to go to this trade show, it was called magic and project at the time, and we got accepted also we need $20,000.

                      04:24.023 –> 04:27.910

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so let’s slow down for a second, but they were so convincing on the phone.

                      04:27.930 –> 04:30.395

                      [SPEAKER_00]: They emailed me and I had to go to a pay phone, right?

                      04:30.996 –> 04:38.250

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And call them from a pay phone in like the middle of nowhere on one random street on a beach town and they convinced me to come home.

                      04:38.550 –> 04:44.682

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So I left my beautiful island, my beach time and I think it was in Guatemala.

                      04:45.286 –> 04:52.478

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And I came home and we went to a trade show and we had wild success actually and then and we still didn’t have any comm store at that point.

                      04:52.578 –> 05:10.146

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We had just had 10 product skews 10 designs basically and we had gone to a trade show and booked $40,000 with the borders and so we were like, okay well before we only do wholesale let’s also launch e-com so that there’s not a conflict between the two because there was at the time.

                      05:10.683 –> 05:15.165

                      [SPEAKER_00]: you know, people would either do wholesale or they would do e-com and doing both sometimes rough with feathers.

                      05:16.070 –> 05:19.225

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, we ended up launching our e-commerce store at that point.

                      05:19.576 –> 05:34.891

                      [SPEAKER_01]: very sensible reason to go e-commerce at that time because yeah, it was it was a very strange time where a wholesale customer would get so frustrated and annoyed if you’d launched an e-commerce site, but if you’d had one already, they didn’t care.

                      05:35.352 –> 05:36.373

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It was so strange.

                      05:36.633 –> 05:39.156

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yep, you’re absolutely right.

                      05:39.176 –> 05:45.702

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of people don’t unless you were around at that time, you know, people don’t realize that it was kind of, it would really, it would bother people.

                      05:46.154 –> 05:46.795

                      [SPEAKER_01]: really did.

                      05:46.815 –> 05:47.597

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It really did.

                      05:47.677 –> 05:50.443

                      [SPEAKER_01]: So let’s come up to date then.

                      05:50.483 –> 05:55.614

                      [SPEAKER_01]: You’re based in the U.S. Do you purely sell to the U.S. wholesale and retail or are you?

                      05:55.634 –> 05:57.879

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Well, thanks to our current administration.

                      05:57.899 –> 05:59.001

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We do.

                      05:59.422 –> 06:02.188

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Just

                      06:02.168 –> 06:04.092

                      [SPEAKER_00]: the tariffs are absolutely bonkers.

                      06:04.713 –> 06:06.638

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s a lot to keep track of isn’t it?

                      06:06.918 –> 06:08.061

                      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s quite low advantage.

                      06:08.502 –> 06:09.604

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it’s crazy.

                      06:09.664 –> 06:21.730

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We will see what’s going on as of now that the Supreme Court have returned it, but you know, our tariffs on one of our biggest, you know, we do a lot of

                      06:21.710 –> 06:23.213

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And these two are already.

                      06:23.433 –> 06:23.954

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, no.

                      06:24.154 –> 06:27.179

                      [SPEAKER_00]: To get the landed items, get the landed product, yeah.

                      06:27.600 –> 06:35.453

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And that doesn’t count the supply chain disruptions from all that where all of the costs leading up to our finished goods have been increased as well.

                      06:35.533 –> 06:41.103

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So it’s really been a disaster from our standpoint.

                      06:41.544 –> 06:43.207

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So we’ll see what happens going forward.

                      06:43.687 –> 06:45.270

                      [SPEAKER_00]: But we used to sell,

                      06:45.250 –> 07:03.135

                      [SPEAKER_00]: all over Europe, we used to sell, you know, London, France, you know, in the UK, France, we had Germany, Australia, Canada, you know, we sold two quite a few countries and now that that’s really off the table.

                      07:04.717 –> 07:06.339

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Until something tied these up.

                      07:06.720 –> 07:07.561

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Until something changes.

                      07:07.841 –> 07:11.106

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, fingers crossed, that’s where we’re helping it, you know.

                      07:11.440 –> 07:20.389

                      [SPEAKER_01]: But sensible to get out of the game until it settles down, because it could take over, couldn’t it just try and keep track of every change?

                      07:21.290 –> 07:26.855

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think the keeping track is not terribly difficult.

                      07:26.956 –> 07:34.303

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I think the bigger issue, I mean, of course, keeping track of what the hell the administration is gonna do next is a pain.

                      07:34.903 –> 07:41.430

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I think it’s non-sensical to create so much disruptive

                      07:41.410 –> 07:42.932

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We need to be grounded.

                      07:42.972 –> 07:44.093

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We need to have a plan.

                      07:44.113 –> 07:46.435

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I don’t know why we’re not doing a two-year plan.

                      07:46.595 –> 07:50.719

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Two-year, I mean, Ed minimum, you know, for transitioning tariffs, there needs to be a timeline.

                      07:50.759 –> 07:52.201

                      [SPEAKER_00]: People need to be prepared to adjust.

                      07:52.241 –> 07:54.924

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, as a businessperson, I think everyone understands that.

                      07:54.944 –> 07:58.928

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I’m moving my warehouse and it’s taking me four months to plan all of that and do it, right?

                      07:58.948 –> 07:59.608

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, come on.

                      07:59.688 –> 08:04.593

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Like, there’s some, there’s some sensible actions that we can take to support changes.

                      08:04.813 –> 08:08.397

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I’m not opposed to changes, but we need to do it in a supportive way.

                      08:08.377 –> 08:17.003

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I think businesses in the United States particularly are hurting, you know, I have a lot of different businesses that I’m friends with different people on friends with their own businesses and I think

                      08:17.422 –> 08:22.810

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We’re having to reshape and prepare for some of the impending storms that we are seeing on the horizon.

                      08:22.891 –> 08:35.811

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Myself included, I’m downstairs and reason I’m switching my warehouses, I’m optimizing, I’m optimizing my inventory, streamlining things, and preparing for what I think is a little bit of a difficult turbulent, continued turbulent time.

                      08:35.871 –> 08:39.717

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And in fashion in particular, I don’t know if you’ve been paying to paying attention to fashion, but

                      08:39.697 –> 08:46.104

                      [SPEAKER_00]: you know, for ever 21 when bankrupt, um, sax-fifth, the holding company for sax-fifth, global with bankrupt.

                      08:46.164 –> 08:52.731

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it’s fashion has been a, a wild ride right now, so.

                      08:52.811 –> 09:07.847

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and here in the, or not technically in the UK, but in the US, not the US, the EU come on, Chloe remember your countries in the, in the EU, we’re about to have the ESP or legislation coming in, which is the whole,

                      09:07.827 –> 09:09.109

                      [SPEAKER_01]: tracking from end.

                      09:09.309 –> 09:14.897

                      [SPEAKER_01]: I’m going to explain it really badly, everybody, listen to the episode with some sort of responsibilities, who are we explaining this much better.

                      09:15.358 –> 09:25.752

                      [SPEAKER_01]: But it’s, it’s basically means, as a, as the manufacturer of the fashion item, you are now responsible for its end of life.

                      09:26.525 –> 09:29.774

                      [SPEAKER_01]: So what happens to it after sale?

                      09:29.834 –> 09:31.117

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Does it end up in landfill?

                      09:31.158 –> 09:33.985

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Does it end up being resold, reused, etc?

                      09:34.005 –> 09:34.547

                      [SPEAKER_01]: What happens?

                      09:34.767 –> 09:36.512

                      [SPEAKER_01]: How much waste is there in your supply chain?

                      09:36.552 –> 09:38.377

                      [SPEAKER_01]: All that kind of right.

                      09:38.718 –> 09:42.829

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Fashion waste and burning of overstocking all that kind of stuff is about to be.

                      09:42.809 –> 09:46.693

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, right the burning of overstock and luxury items is wild to me.

                      09:46.753 –> 10:04.632

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, what a what a way it does that what a terrible thing to do I mean, I understand people’s desire to keep Limited supply, but I mean, you don’t have to do with that way you can re release you can keep it we released it two years later Can keep it re release it later like I don’t know this this there is a lot of waste in fashion It is one of my qualms for sure.

                      10:04.852 –> 10:06.994

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it fashion is eight is a challenging world

                      10:07.261 –> 10:08.825

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s insane the waste in fashion.

                      10:08.865 –> 10:11.372

                      [SPEAKER_01]: We had a lady on the podcast.

                      10:11.793 –> 10:15.243

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Dr. Christina, I forgot in your full name.

                      10:15.263 –> 10:15.524

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.

                      10:15.804 –> 10:17.870

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Who runs a business called the R collective.

                      10:17.910 –> 10:21.540

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Who are all about recycling fashion products and for one.

                      10:22.128 –> 10:25.352

                      [SPEAKER_01]: big high-end fashion luxury brand.

                      10:25.933 –> 10:33.342

                      [SPEAKER_01]: They recycled some of their fabric for them, but because it was a fabric that could be closely, they felt could be closely tied to their brand.

                      10:33.382 –> 10:48.861

                      [SPEAKER_01]: They had to rip the fabric down into fibers, and then re-weave it into new thread before turning it into a different fabric to then re-perps it into some clothing.

                      10:48.841 –> 10:54.015

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Perfectly unused, usable roles of cloth.

                      10:55.078 –> 10:55.960

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Richard, sure it did.

                      10:56.562 –> 11:02.057

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Turned into new, it’s just, I mean, it’s better than it going into landfill, but it’s still madness.

                      11:02.189 –> 11:07.418

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, the thing is, if somebody wants to replicate or knock off a fabric, they’re going to do it.

                      11:08.180 –> 11:10.985

                      [SPEAKER_00]: You know, so it’s not like they can’t do it, you know.

                      11:11.005 –> 11:15.172

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So I think, you know, I have a lot of thoughts on how, you know, some of those things can go.

                      11:15.312 –> 11:21.864

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I do think one of the biggest harms to the ocean environment is microplastic pollution.

                      11:21.924 –> 11:23.607

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And I think people don’t realize that, you know,

                      11:23.587 –> 11:43.941

                      [SPEAKER_00]: You know, that’s a concern for us as well, but our, you know, I can explain how we differ a little bit, but microplastic is largely coming from, you know, your polyester clothing that gets washed in the washing machine and there’s a wonderful woman who just developed a washing machine filter.

                      11:43.921 –> 11:45.323

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Our clothes, you don’t really wash.

                      11:46.464 –> 11:50.689

                      [SPEAKER_00]: There’s a few lines that we have that wash, but most of them are our dry cleaned in there.

                      11:50.709 –> 11:54.653

                      [SPEAKER_00]: They really are, you know, there’s not a lot of ocean exposure with our products.

                      11:56.175 –> 11:58.077

                      [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I mean, there’s a lot, we could go on a whole tangent about it.

                      11:58.098 –> 11:58.758

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we’re going to run a bit.

                      11:58.778 –> 11:59.279

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We’re going to run a bit.

                      11:59.299 –> 11:59.920

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We’re going to run a bit.

                      11:59.960 –> 12:00.480

                      [SPEAKER_01]: We’re going to run a bit.

                      12:00.500 –> 12:01.081

                      [SPEAKER_01]: We’re going to run a bit.

                      12:01.101 –> 12:04.465

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Because you mentioned the product, and we haven’t really explained what the product is.

                      12:04.905 –> 12:08.029

                      [SPEAKER_01]: And I think probably for most of our conversations, people are going to need to know.

                      12:08.129 –> 12:13.135

                      [SPEAKER_01]: So let’s see, please explain your product

                      12:13.368 –> 12:17.496

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, I mean, the best thing is just to check it out, spiritus.com.

                      12:17.536 –> 12:31.022

                      [SPEAKER_00]: When I try to explain it, it’s a little tricky, but we’re a bit of a, you know, our focus as a core pillar is self-expression, and we do everything from, you know, animal prints to neutral colorways,

                      12:31.002 –> 12:33.727

                      [SPEAKER_00]: You know, our brands centers around animal inspiration.

                      12:33.767 –> 12:35.410

                      [SPEAKER_00]: That’s why we give back to the animal kingdom.

                      12:35.991 –> 12:39.176

                      [SPEAKER_00]: But we also do, you know, I kneel on tighter prints.

                      12:39.436 –> 12:45.747

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And we have extremely, you know, the highest quality fofer in the world in some of our coats.

                      12:45.827 –> 12:48.572

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We have long tail draggers we have.

                      12:48.552 –> 12:49.655

                      [SPEAKER_00]: crop codes.

                      12:50.096 –> 12:50.577

                      [SPEAKER_00]: You name it.

                      12:50.597 –> 12:53.425

                      [SPEAKER_00]: That’s one of our core businesses is the faux fur coat world.

                      12:53.505 –> 13:02.148

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We used to do a lot of home goods, but post COVID people just the competition ramped up and we ended up closing our home goods line because it was just really expensive plus now you have the tariffs.

                      13:02.188 –> 13:02.930

                      [SPEAKER_00]: It just really doesn’t.

                      13:02.970 –> 13:05.076

                      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s not this place we can compete in.

                      13:05.056 –> 13:11.147

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And the market’s kind of saturated, but we do have house robes, luxury house robes, they’re really, really fun.

                      13:11.327 –> 13:14.092

                      [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of our stuff that has hoods also has ears.

                      13:14.613 –> 13:16.215

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So again, drawing back to the animals.

                      13:16.256 –> 13:17.077

                      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s very kitschy.

                      13:17.157 –> 13:17.959

                      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s very playful.

                      13:18.099 –> 13:19.601

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We don’t take ourselves too seriously.

                      13:19.621 –> 13:21.925

                      [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we just, we have fun.

                      13:23.388 –> 13:24.550

                      [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?

                      13:24.833 –> 13:35.072

                      [SPEAKER_01]: For me, looking at your products, I’m like, right, that has Glastonbury, Kachella, the human, real favorite, is the festival outfit.

                      13:35.833 –> 13:39.079

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Is that your key market or is there other elements?

                      13:39.110 –> 13:40.091

                      [SPEAKER_00]: not really actually.

                      13:40.231 –> 13:43.615

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So we started in the festival world and we expanded out.

                      13:44.136 –> 13:50.563

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And so, and what ended up happening is we started a partitioning our season between festival season and sort of nightlife.

                      13:50.583 –> 13:55.669

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, we also happen to have a lot of exposure in the music scene.

                      13:55.929 –> 14:01.256

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, like doja cat bought a product, we didn’t even know until she wore it on social media.

                      14:01.836 –> 14:03.278

                      [SPEAKER_00]: That kind of stuff happens all the time.

                      14:03.318 –> 14:08.644

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We also can get products out to, you know, artists,

                      14:08.759 –> 14:32.404

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We’ve been in photo shoots and we’ve just we’ve been on a lot of various celebrities and I think that’s just a there’s a natural affinity to the product because it is, you know, especially music artists are already kind of loud in their attire and we just help them facilitate that that that branded experience for themselves and so, you know, what ended up happening is we divide our season into festival season and and.

                      14:32.384 –> 14:37.212

                      [SPEAKER_00]: really, you know, we don’t call it necessarily festival season, but we call it off season on season.

                      14:37.352 –> 14:38.995

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And actually, our off season is festival season.

                      14:39.515 –> 14:44.243

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And so we still luckily drive a lot of revenue during, during spring summer months.

                      14:44.944 –> 14:47.729

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And we do that with a variety of products now.

                      14:48.149 –> 14:53.959

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We ended up saying, okay, what do we do to, you know, navigate the, the heat when we do a lot of flow for.

                      14:53.979 –> 14:55.461

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we started with headwear.

                      14:55.561 –> 14:56.603

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We started with, we

                      14:56.583 –> 14:58.305

                      [SPEAKER_00]: you know, what is called the spirit hood?

                      14:58.946 –> 15:00.608

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And that was our first piece.

                      15:00.909 –> 15:03.552

                      [SPEAKER_00]: It got sucked up in the pop culture when, you know, back in 2010.

                      15:04.574 –> 15:10.541

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And then that was what catapulted us into, you know, being like, wow, we’re doing millions of dollars.

                      15:10.621 –> 15:12.844

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We’ve got to figure out how to do this properly.

                      15:12.925 –> 15:16.329

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We started getting knockoffs, which tanked our revenue.

                      15:16.369 –> 15:17.951

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We had to really invest in.

                      15:17.991 –> 15:23.198

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I’m sure there’s a lot of entrepreneurs who are listening to this that have been through that where you’ve got,

                      15:23.178 –> 15:26.362

                      [SPEAKER_00]: you know, like that’s really there.

                      15:26.382 –> 15:27.884

                      [SPEAKER_00]: There’s a part of that going on.

                      15:28.285 –> 15:30.088

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We really had no idea what we were doing.

                      15:30.889 –> 15:38.279

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I’ve spent the last decade and a half understanding and re-evaluating every aspect of business and it’s constantly changing.

                      15:39.240 –> 15:40.242

                      [SPEAKER_00]: But we expanded out.

                      15:40.282 –> 15:49.995

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We started doing body suits, full body suits, which says really well during spring summer in

                      15:49.975 –> 16:00.937

                      [SPEAKER_00]: The bright colored coats are designed for spring summer, the more muted coats or, you know, fall colorways are brought in for a fall and so we’ve kind of partitioned some of these things out.

                      16:01.017 –> 16:09.655

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We do have more holiday sort of styles and we do have more nightlife styles or cold weather styles and then we have our spring summer, you know, our spring summer apparel.

                      16:10.057 –> 16:30.883

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s so fascinating to hear you talk about the different seasons and the styles coming in because I think at first glance someone would look at the sight and go, oh, they just create crazy colored coats, you know, in the nicest possible way, but there’s, it’s really clear you really understand your customer base and the rhythms of the business and know what to drop when in order to drive the sales.

                      16:30.982 –> 16:53.361

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if you look at the site now, it’s going to look wild and more young and you look at the site in fall winter it’s going to look a little bit we don’t really do contemporary we do have we do have some contemporary contemporary pieces and we start to build those in we’re not everything we do is kitchen we have a black you know colored coat that you know we have lots of things that are like that we’ll push more of that forward during fall winter.

                      16:53.341 –> 17:09.097

                      [SPEAKER_00]: and interestingly enough one of our biggest competitor that leaves us as one of the biggest, if not the biggest faux fur coat special specialty e-commerce stores in the United States now, because our biggest competitor just went out of business, which just tells you the difficulty in the industry right now.

                      17:09.458 –> 17:11.282

                      [SPEAKER_00]: They were twice our size.

                      17:11.380 –> 17:37.067

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And so there’s also, you know, we’re able to kind of now we see that sort of gap in the market and we’re sort of we’ve got made to order items that are more in the contemporary world so that we don’t have to stock items that not everyone is going to love in terms of our customer base and you know so there’s just some strategy components that we’ve been able to modify to to really pay attention to you know what the market is dictating and how do we serve it.

                      17:37.638 –> 17:46.191

                      [SPEAKER_01]: How do you go about keeping your finger on the pulse of what’s going on, what the customers are going to want and what they’re going to want next?

                      17:46.792 –> 17:50.137

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know the struggle between an artist and a creative, right?

                      17:50.218 –> 17:56.668

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And for me an artist is designing without constraints and a creative is designing within a box.

                      17:56.688 –> 18:01.435

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think I have a lot of difficulty sometimes paying attention to trends.

                      18:02.073 –> 18:11.151

                      [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and so the way that I navigate that now is very specific and what I do is I use SEO.

                      18:11.692 –> 18:12.033

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Really?

                      18:12.393 –> 18:19.407

                      [SPEAKER_01]: So you’re not watching the, you know, the fashion weeks or something like that for what’s coming on your, you’re on the SEO front.

                      18:19.690 –> 18:20.531

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I certainly watch it.

                      18:20.571 –> 18:22.013

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I’m a color snob.

                      18:22.314 –> 18:24.497

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So I do like to see what’s going on in the world of color.

                      18:24.917 –> 18:32.588

                      [SPEAKER_00]: But we, I feel like as a brand, we’re not, we’re across between fashion and entertainment almost right.

                      18:33.109 –> 18:35.392

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We’re, we’re an entertaining product to wear.

                      18:35.492 –> 18:39.137

                      [SPEAKER_00]: When you wear the garment, it’s got a tremendous amount of stopping power.

                      18:39.598 –> 18:47.689

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So that bleeds into people coming up and talking to you, that creates brand ambassadors naturally because you’re talking

                      18:47.669 –> 18:51.857

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So we kind of stand, I use it with a grain of salt, I guess.

                      18:51.957 –> 18:53.921

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I look at the trend data and I use it with a grain of salt.

                      18:54.142 –> 18:59.212

                      [SPEAKER_00]: What I’m more focused on is the integration between my marketing and my product development.

                      18:59.733 –> 19:02.578

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And marketing specifically being our SEO, right?

                      19:02.698 –> 19:07.568

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And now GEO, but really what we’re talking about as SEO, because when you look at the trends,

                      19:07.548 –> 19:13.635

                      [SPEAKER_00]: on what is being searched and you look at where the demand is and you look at where your brands SEO power is.

                      19:13.715 –> 19:22.404

                      [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you’re authority school, what, how relevant you are to Google in a particular industry determines how much power you have to drive organic traffic.

                      19:23.385 –> 19:27.690

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And we have a reasonable amount of power, obviously because I took this approach many years ago.

                      19:28.531 –> 19:32.155

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And I look at, you know,

                      19:32.135 –> 19:33.980

                      [SPEAKER_00]: What if I want to design a color way?

                      19:34.221 –> 19:39.214

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I do look at trends, but I’m also going to look at like, you know, upcoming trends, you know, what is the color of the year?

                      19:39.315 –> 19:39.515

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.

                      19:40.097 –> 19:42.945

                      [SPEAKER_00]: But more importantly to me is actually what are people looking for?

                      19:43.607 –> 19:47.798

                      [SPEAKER_00]: If people are looking for a yellow faux fur coat, and

                      19:47.778 –> 20:03.660

                      [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we already know that we do bright colored coats that color will probably fly with at least a certain percentage of our audience, maybe not everybody is a very specific color, but I’m going to focus on dropping a couple of yellow coats if that’s what’s trending and there’s not a ton of people supplying that demand.

                      20:03.640 –> 20:08.889

                      [SPEAKER_00]: and especially given our competition right now, there’s limitations for people out there.

                      20:09.029 –> 20:15.861

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So why not capitalize on that and build out organic traffic to color yellow or yellow for coats?

                      20:16.202 –> 20:19.708

                      [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and it’s, so we designed, I really designed differently.

                      20:19.688 –> 20:19.928

                      [SPEAKER_00]: right?

                      20:19.969 –> 20:25.158

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We design within the scope of what is being searched if it’s crop codes, if it’s long tail dragers.

                      20:25.258 –> 20:27.702

                      [SPEAKER_00]: If it’s the tail dragers, what color was?

                      20:27.843 –> 20:29.786

                      [SPEAKER_00]: What are the if we’re thinking about men?

                      20:30.207 –> 20:31.730

                      [SPEAKER_00]: What are the top colorways for men?

                      20:31.770 –> 20:33.012

                      [SPEAKER_00]: What are they searching for?

                      20:33.473 –> 20:35.236

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And how long have they been searching for that?

                      20:35.416 –> 20:41.848

                      [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you know, and if the traffic is relevant enough, there’s enough searches and the demand is not, you know, you know, if you

                      20:41.828 –> 20:56.111

                      [SPEAKER_00]: demand varies, right, if it’s a black coat, you know, you’re getting 100,000 searches a week for that amount that minimum, we may not be able to just make a black coat, but we can make a black faux fur coat, right, or a men’s black faux fur coat.

                      20:56.191 –> 21:03.603

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And in that narrowing down, we can have our our winds, our successes, and start climbing the ladder of organic traffic.

                      21:03.683 –> 21:08.511

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And that really moves the needle for us in terms of how we think about net new customer acquisition.

                      21:08.491 –> 21:12.102

                      [SPEAKER_00]: because if they’re searching for on Google, they’re also searching for it in social media.

                      21:12.544 –> 21:17.860

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And you can also kind of glean some of that from social media as well, but it’s much easier on Google as the base.

                      21:18.599 –> 21:30.740

                      [SPEAKER_01]: But you see, you’re looking at the Google search trends, Google SEO data, et cetera, and then that’s informing what products you put into design, into production, et cetera.

                      21:31.201 –> 21:36.951

                      [SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time as you’re doing that product creation part, you’re also working on the marketing of that.

                      21:37.011 –> 21:39.696

                      [SPEAKER_01]: So getting the SEO foundations in place.

                      21:39.676 –> 21:40.418

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Yep, yep.

                      21:40.438 –> 21:44.768

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So that would be naming conventions, that would be metadata, what are we targeting?

                      21:45.369 –> 21:46.091

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

                      21:46.131 –> 21:51.964

                      [SPEAKER_00]: That would be our Google Merchant Center, Bing Merchant Center, you know, yes, absolutely.

                      21:52.113 –> 21:58.382

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Did you, I mean, properly techy question here, but do you put the product live on the website before it’s ready to sell?

                      21:58.422 –> 21:59.443

                      [SPEAKER_01]: So you’ve got that page?

                      21:59.463 –> 21:59.723

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We do not.

                      22:00.084 –> 22:01.005

                      [SPEAKER_01]: No, we do not.

                      22:01.105 –> 22:04.270

                      [SPEAKER_01]: This is a background stuff ready and then bang when it’s.

                      22:04.350 –> 22:09.357

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Correct, and the reason for that is actually related to not, is really to our existing customers.

                      22:09.837 –> 22:13.663

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We have a much greater, I mean, we, okay, that’s not entirely accurate.

                      22:13.683 –> 22:14.043

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I’m sorry.

                      22:14.123 –> 22:16.146

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We do have a coming soon page.

                      22:16.126 –> 22:16.967

                      [SPEAKER_00]: we do have a coming soon.

                      22:17.007 –> 22:19.571

                      [SPEAKER_00]: But it’s not like we’re putting the coming soon page out in months before.

                      22:19.911 –> 22:27.761

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And that just has to do with the fact that though we might know it’s being developed or designed or we might have a prototype six months prior, we have to shoot everything.

                      22:27.841 –> 22:33.970

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So we can’t, you know, it becomes, it becomes, you know, you’ve got to fit it into your operations, you know.

                      22:34.370 –> 22:39.978

                      [SPEAKER_00]: But it’s, and it’s also just I want to point out that it’s also identifying wind, wind trends are happening.

                      22:39.998 –> 22:41.880

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So for example, Burning Man is a really,

                      22:41.860 –> 22:43.222

                      [SPEAKER_00]: big season for us.

                      22:43.762 –> 22:51.091

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Festival season in general is okay, but Burning Man is really is really the pre- Burning Man season is pretty big for us and it starts mid July.

                      22:51.832 –> 22:52.633

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So what do we do?

                      22:52.854 –> 22:55.196

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We launch products beginning of July.

                      22:55.717 –> 22:58.420

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We run our sale mid July, right?

                      22:58.761 –> 23:11.817

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Targeted towards, you know, the festival season, but because you’re not really, you’re not allowed to use the term Burning Man in your marketing and we respect the rules of Burning Man because we have such a huge audience there

                      23:11.797 –> 23:13.820

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We respect the rules of the game.

                      23:13.920 –> 23:21.993

                      [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people do not in when it comes to marketing, but I I like to identify the trends when we want to drop stuff based on season out.

                      23:22.033 –> 23:30.747

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So for example, when is October, you know, we’ve tried a few different things when we don’t follow the trends and we’re dropping product lines or running sales That that’s kind of a problem.

                      23:30.767 –> 23:33.291

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So for example, October is a really great season for us.

                      23:33.451 –> 23:36.977

                      [SPEAKER_00]: September is oddly a terrible month for us

                      23:36.957 –> 23:40.623

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I cannot figure out exactly why.

                      23:40.643 –> 23:44.949

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we have some theories internally, but it goes July, August, fantastic for us.

                      23:45.110 –> 23:47.193

                      [SPEAKER_00]: September, just not great.

                      23:47.333 –> 23:49.216

                      [SPEAKER_00]: It goes back to like a June month for us.

                      23:49.256 –> 23:50.819

                      [SPEAKER_00]: You know, June’s not a great month for us either.

                      23:50.839 –> 23:53.042

                      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s kind of a height of summer, so to speak.

                      23:53.022 –> 23:54.704

                      [SPEAKER_00]: June and September for us, not great.

                      23:55.124 –> 23:57.046

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And then October starts booming, right?

                      23:57.467 –> 24:05.035

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And so the timing for when we launch Halloween inspired products and Halloween content is really relevant, you can see one other people do it.

                      24:05.535 –> 24:06.676

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And they are all over the place.

                      24:06.737 –> 24:11.361

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Some brands do it in the middle of September, some brands do it in, you know, middle of October, right?

                      24:11.622 –> 24:22.253

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So the timing of that as you’re watching the trend lines ramp up in historical years, you can see where the line

                      24:22.233 –> 24:23.354

                      [SPEAKER_00]: case study, right?

                      24:23.715 –> 24:29.362

                      [SPEAKER_00]: The seasonality for Black Friday’s Abramundate is weeks before Thanksgiving.

                      24:29.402 –> 24:33.968

                      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s we it’s it’s we actually run a birthday sale because our birthday happens to be November 10th.

                      24:34.148 –> 24:39.314

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And part of the reason my brother launched that initially was like he was saying look at these trend, you know, he’s like look at these trend lines.

                      24:39.334 –> 24:41.798

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We’ve got to figure out how to capture dollars earlier.

                      24:42.258 –> 24:44.501

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it can be a trap and you need to be careful.

                      24:44.541 –> 24:45.622

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We’re talking two things here.

                      24:45.722 –> 24:47.244

                      [SPEAKER_00]: One is sales and one is product development.

                      24:47.344 –> 24:51.750

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I’d like to probably focus on product development because there’s

                      24:51.730 –> 25:00.583

                      [SPEAKER_00]: But my point is just to illustrate when you’re looking at trends, you can identify real easily when this volume of search is starting to go up.

                      25:00.603 –> 25:04.649

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And we have correlated that that is exactly when we need to be releasing products.

                      25:04.990 –> 25:06.452

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So we don’t release products at random.

                      25:07.073 –> 25:10.458

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We’ve done a variety of releasing schedules, but we don’t do it at random.

                      25:10.518 –> 25:12.481

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We do it based on what we’re seeing in search.

                      25:13.282 –> 25:16.687

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And whenever we deviate from that, it doesn’t help us.

                      25:16.747 –> 25:21.214

                      [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn’t help us to launch

                      25:21.582 –> 25:22.043

                      [SPEAKER_01]: make sense.

                      25:22.063 –> 25:31.254

                      [SPEAKER_01]: So that’s why I think many people were listening going, he said burning man was good and they launched the sale, ready for burning man, but it’s because you know there’s appetite for purchasing.

                      25:31.274 –> 25:32.735

                      [SPEAKER_01]: So that’s a good time to launch sale.

                      25:33.036 –> 25:40.945

                      [SPEAKER_00]: There’s tremendous appetite and in that regard we will be competing for everyone that is that is out there trying to capture dollars.

                      25:41.366 –> 25:44.890

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So you know there’s a point where you really if you if you

                      25:44.870 –> 25:46.432

                      [SPEAKER_00]: you know, we don’t like to discount heavily.

                      25:46.832 –> 25:52.078

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So I’ll say that first of all, maybe it’s a 20% off, you know, of certain, you know, maybe it’s a range of spread.

                      25:52.719 –> 25:54.321

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We’re certainly not doing 50% off.

                      25:54.341 –> 25:55.723

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We’re not a discount brand like that.

                      25:56.944 –> 26:00.768

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, but I think tactically, you know, and we don’t discount brand new products.

                      26:00.788 –> 26:07.997

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So if we release a line July 5th, you know what I mean, just in time for that season, none of those are going to be on sale.

                      26:08.798 –> 26:12.582

                      [SPEAKER_00]: You know, so there’s strategy, there’s a variety

                      26:12.848 –> 26:17.133

                      [SPEAKER_01]: You mentioned that you’d like to talk more about product development because there’s more we need to know.

                      26:17.173 –> 26:20.718

                      [SPEAKER_01]: So what’s a couple of other things we need to know on that product development side of things?

                      26:21.439 –> 26:37.759

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think we covered some of the gritty parts, which are, you know, the main thing that I think people don’t realize is how when you tie your product development to your SEO specifically, you reap tremendous benefits.

                      26:37.739 –> 26:40.925

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And SEO is sort of foundational to me.

                      26:41.245 –> 26:45.212

                      [SPEAKER_00]: You know, there’s ads, which in my opinion are supportive.

                      26:45.473 –> 26:46.875

                      [SPEAKER_00]: The cost of ads continues to go up.

                      26:47.597 –> 26:51.103

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I would wager that the cost of SEO is not really going up that much.

                      26:51.143 –> 26:53.387

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it’s a very similar strategies.

                      26:53.427 –> 26:56.052

                      [SPEAKER_00]: You do have generative engine optimization now.

                      26:56.032 –> 26:59.138

                      [SPEAKER_00]: But you’re still, I’m still using the same people to work through that.

                      26:59.178 –> 27:07.896

                      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s not like I’ve got to, I’ve got to, I mean, granted we have my own consultancy that is a blend of both spirit hoods team and my, you know, my consultancy.

                      27:07.916 –> 27:15.631

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So there’s people that work on both ends, but generally speaking ads are ever more costly, right?

                      27:15.932 –> 27:16.453

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And

                      27:16.433 –> 27:29.478

                      [SPEAKER_00]: SEO is a great way to drive your foundational traffic, so when you’re designing within that framework, when you’re creating, you know, we used to name our products, naming conventions are really important.

                      27:29.518 –> 27:33.666

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We used to name our products something like a gray wolf, you know,

                      27:33.646 –> 27:34.067

                      [SPEAKER_00]: code.

                      27:34.487 –> 27:35.348

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Let’s just say, right?

                      27:35.929 –> 27:40.095

                      [SPEAKER_00]: If we want to be recognized in Google, that has nothing to do with a faux fur coat.

                      27:40.135 –> 27:43.260

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Google’s not going to go, oh, let’s rank these people for faux fur coat.

                      27:43.360 –> 27:52.253

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Sure, there are small tactics and strategies that you can do, but when it really comes down to it, you want to thoroughline from your creative marketing, which gray wolf, you know, were all animal inspired.

                      27:52.273 –> 27:55.237

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So we still keep the gray wolf in the title, but it’s at the end.

                      27:55.478 –> 27:58.382

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And at the beginning is gray faux fur coat, right?

                      27:58.863 –> 28:01.206

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Because that’s what’s being searched for.

                      28:01.186 –> 28:08.977

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And so, or it’s gray, hooded, faux fur coat, or so these concepts are just there, they’re sort of the devils in the details, right?

                      28:09.378 –> 28:11.621

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And I think SEO traditionally is kind of like that.

                      28:11.801 –> 28:16.148

                      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s not a far stretch to create your names based on what people are searching for.

                      28:16.669 –> 28:19.733

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, and it’s right down to in a Google won’t say this.

                      28:19.773 –> 28:29.387

                      [SPEAKER_00]: You won’t get this information because we do a lot of SEO for a variety of brands and obviously spirit hoods has been the bulk of our growth and understanding around

                      28:29.367 –> 28:37.182

                      [SPEAKER_00]: it’s down to little things like women’s plural, women type correctly, they’re better grammatically.

                      28:37.282 –> 28:42.432

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So they will type women’s faux-for-coat women with a plural or an apostrophe S.

                      28:42.614 –> 28:42.854

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

                      28:43.015 –> 28:43.635

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So what do we do?

                      28:43.896 –> 28:47.841

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We actually, all of our women’s photographs, they have the word women’s within apostrophe.

                      28:48.361 –> 28:49.743

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Men’s do not.

                      28:50.143 –> 28:53.888

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So there’s more search volume for women’s within apostrophe than there is women’s without.

                      28:54.629 –> 29:01.638

                      [SPEAKER_00]: There’s more search volume for men’s without an apostrophe than there is with because men tend to not use apostrophe.

                      29:01.658 –> 29:02.419

                      [SPEAKER_00]: They’re just lazy.

                      29:02.439 –> 29:03.340

                      [SPEAKER_00]: They just do

                      29:03.320 –> 29:04.321

                      [SPEAKER_00]: in me and S, right?

                      29:04.762 –> 29:08.045

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So we actually name right down to the details like that.

                      29:08.306 –> 29:10.068

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And that has served us pretty well.

                      29:10.989 –> 29:17.396

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And you won’t find that Google says that that’s the reality, but in our experience directly, we find it.

                      29:17.496 –> 29:19.438

                      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s down to very specific details.

                      29:19.478 –> 29:22.281

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Now, the point isn’t to get bogged down with details.

                      29:22.301 –> 29:24.244

                      [SPEAKER_00]: The point is just to start somewhere, right?

                      29:24.544 –> 29:29.850

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And I think if you want to be a great designer,

                      29:29.830 –> 29:34.295

                      [SPEAKER_00]: are going to move the needle, both with your existing customer and your new customer base.

                      29:35.055 –> 29:54.235

                      [SPEAKER_00]: The smartest way that we have found is to design within the framework of using SEL to develop and to name and to create.

                      30:00.391 –> 30:02.675

                      [SPEAKER_02]: It’s time for the top tips round.

                      30:05.420 –> 30:10.568

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I love this section because it gives me and I’ll list us some really quick ideas for taking our businesses to the next level.

                      30:10.608 –> 30:12.752

                      [SPEAKER_01]: The teeth, are you ready for the top tips?

                      30:13.453 –> 30:14.755

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, let’s do, let’s go.

                      30:15.336 –> 30:15.917

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Let’s do it.

                      30:16.579 –> 30:17.781

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, the book top tip.

                      30:17.861 –> 30:24.492

                      [SPEAKER_01]: If everyone listening to this podcast, I agreed to take Friday off and read a book to make their business better, which book would you recommend?

                      30:24.742 –> 30:36.287

                      [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think I’m going to go with a stretch here, but it’s probably going to be Martha Bex, the way of integrity and the reason for that is because we’ve had a very

                      30:36.385 –> 30:39.609

                      [SPEAKER_00]: strong mentality around integrity as a brand.

                      30:40.790 –> 30:44.654

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And I remember we had a quick story if we have time, I can tell you this quick story.

                      30:45.115 –> 30:54.706

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So the reason I think integrity is so powerful when it comes to branding is because, you know, we know the adage that, you know, one person is happy, they’ll tell three or four people about it.

                      30:54.806 –> 30:57.950

                      [SPEAKER_00]: If one person is mad, they’ll tell like seven million people, right?

                      30:57.990 –> 31:00.132

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Like they will scorch the earth.

                      31:00.112 –> 31:05.838

                      [SPEAKER_00]: You know, so we had launched a black Friday sale and, you know, let’s call it body suits.

                      31:05.858 –> 31:09.522

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Basically, one of our product categories like body suits was under discounted.

                      31:09.682 –> 31:11.304

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We didn’t have enough of a discount on it.

                      31:11.344 –> 31:12.184

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We weren’t paying attention.

                      31:12.245 –> 31:16.149

                      [SPEAKER_00]: It was too low and they were not moving and it had been five days into the sale.

                      31:16.469 –> 31:20.073

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And so we needed to bring that discount up so we could clear out some of the inventory.

                      31:20.453 –> 31:28.161

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So we had a quick meeting and, you know, for us, it was pretty easy to decide this.

                      31:28.141 –> 31:30.784

                      [SPEAKER_00]: They will raise the discount amount up to wherever they need it.

                      31:30.844 –> 31:33.287

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So if it was 10% off now, it’s 25% off.

                      31:33.307 –> 31:35.289

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And they will just not tell anybody, right?

                      31:35.369 –> 31:42.477

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Because in your email segmentation, generally you’re segmenting anyone who’s purchased in the last two weeks is not gonna be notified.

                      31:42.537 –> 31:46.081

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So generally it’s hard for people to find out.

                      31:46.422 –> 31:47.242

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We didn’t do that.

                      31:47.383 –> 31:55.011

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We said, let’s, because it’s hard to manually discount everything for those people, email them, let them know what’s going on.

                      31:55.071 –> 31:57.574

                      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s a whole process, right?

                      31:57.959 –> 31:58.440

                      [SPEAKER_00]: we did it.

                      31:59.041 –> 32:03.973

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We refunded people, the money, the difference, and we let them know that we did that.

                      32:04.213 –> 32:07.701

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And the response was really eye-opening for me.

                      32:07.822 –> 32:09.766

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We had already sort of had this integrity model.

                      32:10.508 –> 32:14.938

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And what I found was we just created a whole bunch of…

                      32:14.918 –> 32:17.241

                      [SPEAKER_00]: of brand new brand ambassadors.

                      32:17.261 –> 32:18.262

                      [SPEAKER_00]: They were so thrilled.

                      32:18.583 –> 32:20.185

                      [SPEAKER_00]: They were comparing us to other brands.

                      32:20.225 –> 32:24.510

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, Zara would never do this or whatever brands, I don’t know, I can’t claim that Zara wouldn’t do that.

                      32:24.530 –> 32:26.192

                      [SPEAKER_00]: But they were listing out these brands.

                      32:27.213 –> 32:30.818

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Our existing customers were saying, this is why we love Spirithood so much.

                      32:31.338 –> 32:32.820

                      [SPEAKER_00]: This is why we’re obsessed with you guys.

                      32:33.601 –> 32:35.123

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We don’t have to worry when we purchase.

                      32:35.764 –> 32:37.366

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And that really was eye opening.

                      32:37.406 –> 32:44.875

                      [SPEAKER_00]: It really made me want to buckle down even more in how we are able to be a brand

                      32:44.855 –> 32:48.622

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So I recommend the way of integrity because it is a lifestyle.

                      32:48.642 –> 32:53.129

                      [SPEAKER_00]: It is challenging too in the beginning to really be an integrity with yourself and the world around you.

                      32:53.230 –> 32:56.175

                      [SPEAKER_00]: But you can do it and I think it’s really beneficial to your business.

                      32:56.956 –> 32:59.000

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Great story and fascinating book.

                      32:59.060 –> 33:00.322

                      [SPEAKER_01]: I don’t think I’ve come across it.

                      33:00.362 –> 33:01.925

                      [SPEAKER_01]: So I shall have to go and check it out myself.

                      33:02.025 –> 33:04.569

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Now the traffic topped it.

                      33:04.589 –> 33:09.057

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Which marketing method do you the prize above all others or think doesn’t get the press it deserves?

                      33:09.509 –> 33:12.675

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I’m going to go back to SEO, the basics on SEO.

                      33:12.695 –> 33:21.193

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I think, you know, there’s a lot there that people need to explore and get into, and it’s really not that difficult to build it out, especially if you’ve got an existing brand.

                      33:21.513 –> 33:23.257

                      [SPEAKER_00]: You’ve got a domain that’s very valuable.

                      33:23.798 –> 33:24.379

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Build it out.

                      33:24.519 –> 33:25.341

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Be the leader.

                      33:25.461 –> 33:27.265

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Be the content.

                      33:27.245 –> 33:34.516

                      [SPEAKER_00]: King, I mean, traffic, you know, if you want good quality traffic, another example is we did tertiary content for spirit hoods, right?

                      33:34.576 –> 33:38.963

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We do all types of content around spirit animals because our brand is called spirit hoods.

                      33:39.063 –> 33:40.044

                      [SPEAKER_00]: The spirit is in the title.

                      33:40.505 –> 33:43.089

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We do foot, we get with a lot of animal inspiration.

                      33:43.449 –> 33:46.895

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We start pumping out blog content and we even have a spirit animal quiz.

                      33:46.975 –> 33:48.477

                      [SPEAKER_00]: What is your spirit animal?

                      33:48.457 –> 33:53.042

                      [SPEAKER_00]: right, and we drive hundreds of files over a hundred thousand people to our website every month.

                      33:53.362 –> 33:59.868

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And some of that traffic, a significant amount of that traffic actually is actually just content related that is nothing to do with purchases.

                      34:00.189 –> 34:14.363

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And the reason we did that was because that was a path to, again, going and saying, what can we own in the space that drives a lot of traffic that will give us relevancy to Google and elevate everything else that we do purely by proxy by the fact that,

                      34:14.343 –> 34:18.771

                      [SPEAKER_00]: That, you know, our foe for coat and our authority score goes up because we’re commanding so much traffic.

                      34:18.811 –> 34:19.993

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We’ve dominated a space.

                      34:20.013 –> 34:26.686

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So we’ve been dominating the spirit animal space as a tertiary strategy and also because we’re animal centric.

                      34:26.726 –> 34:31.795

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So our audience already loves to know about animals about little.

                      34:31.775 –> 34:49.910

                      [SPEAKER_00]: little hints and details of what happens when you see an eagle on your walk or what like it ties into the brand and also it’s a very powerful operational tool and we discovered that through again SEO, what can we own in the content space that evolves the brand further and drives more traffic.

                      34:49.930 –> 34:51.353

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So I’m going to go with SEO.

                      34:52.463 –> 34:53.144

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.

                      34:53.905 –> 34:54.206

                      [SPEAKER_00]: No.

                      34:54.226 –> 34:54.587

                      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s good.

                      34:54.607 –> 34:54.987

                      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s good.

                      34:55.067 –> 34:55.588

                      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s good.

                      34:55.648 –> 34:57.451

                      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s good.

                      34:57.551 –> 34:58.433

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s good.

                      34:58.453 –> 34:58.733

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s good.

                      34:58.813 –> 34:59.475

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s good.

                      34:59.495 –> 35:00.256

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s good.

                      35:00.276 –> 35:00.817

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s good.

                      35:01.057 –> 35:02.299

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s good.

                      35:02.319 –> 35:02.820

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s good.

                      35:03.281 –> 35:04.563

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s good.

                      35:04.583 –> 35:05.024

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s good.

                      35:05.064 –> 35:05.725

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s good.

                      35:05.925 –> 35:06.466

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s good.

                      35:06.626 –> 35:07.107

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s good.

                      35:07.247 –> 35:07.588

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s good.

                      35:07.608 –> 35:08.009

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s good.

                      35:08.029 –> 35:08.690

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s good.

                      35:08.770 –> 35:09.191

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s good.

                      35:09.251 –> 35:09.772

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s good.

                      35:09.812 –> 35:10.713

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s good.

                      35:10.793 –> 35:11.234

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s good.

                      35:11.254 –> 35:11.494

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s good.

                      35:11.534 –> 35:12.316

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s good.

                      35:12.336 –> 35:12.997

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s good.

                      35:13.057 –> 35:13.678

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s good.

                      35:14.131 –> 35:19.601

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I would say, again, when I’m going to go with SCM Rush, which is an SEO tool, that’s an easy one.

                      35:19.661 –> 35:20.603

                      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s very inexpensive.

                      35:20.723 –> 35:23.989

                      [SPEAKER_00]: It will help you understand inner workings of your brain if you’re not already paying attention.

                      35:24.069 –> 35:26.313

                      [SPEAKER_00]: You cannot just rely on agencies for these things.

                      35:26.373 –> 35:31.222

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I take it from somebody who used to do that and it didn’t work as you know.

                      35:31.703 –> 35:37.033

                      [SPEAKER_00]: If you’re not seeing results that could be because you can’t lead something you don’t understand.

                      35:37.216 –> 35:39.640

                      [SPEAKER_00]: that you cannot lead something you don’t understand.

                      35:39.860 –> 35:42.584

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So you’ve got to get familiar with it at least at a foundational level.

                      35:42.924 –> 35:52.498

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And then in terms of other tools, we use a sauna, I also think just don’t spend money when you don’t need to, we just use Google Meet, for example.

                      35:52.598 –> 35:54.802

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And it’s like, it works great, you know?

                      35:54.862 –> 36:03.655

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So I think use tools that are inexpensive because it adds up, just like your subscription on your phone, when you go and you check it and you’re like, oh my god, I like 12 subscriptions.

                      36:03.935 –> 36:06.058

                      [SPEAKER_00]: The same thing adds up as a company.

                      36:06.038 –> 36:11.006

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So with as much as you can go with the stuff that you’re already paying for or that already works.

                      36:11.747 –> 36:13.470

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that’s advice to live by.

                      36:13.650 –> 36:15.172

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Use what you’re already paying for people.

                      36:15.513 –> 36:17.376

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.

                      36:17.776 –> 36:19.159

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, the carbon top tip.

                      36:19.199 –> 36:23.305

                      [SPEAKER_01]: What’s your favorite way to reduce the carbon footprint of an e-commerce store?

                      36:23.993 –> 36:39.555

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I think you want to be mindful from the beginning what the direction of if you’re concerned about the environment you want to be mindful from the beginning about what you’re doing and if you’re already knee deep in it then you know how do you how do you alter that for us spirit is made from acrylic right our focus made from acrylic.

                      36:39.535 –> 36:47.146

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We have been working with our factory who has been dumping in millions of dollars in research to try to figure out if we can do the last project was a ray on blend.

                      36:47.166 –> 36:48.708

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So a natural fibered fofer.

                      36:49.169 –> 36:50.270

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So we’re on the cusp of that.

                      36:50.651 –> 36:59.764

                      [SPEAKER_00]: When the economy stabilizes, we’ll have more people concerned about sustainability and that will drive and push our ability to spend money and create more sustainable items.

                      36:59.884 –> 37:04.210

                      [SPEAKER_00]: But for now, it’s kind of on pause because the economies on fire,

                      37:04.190 –> 37:14.724

                      [SPEAKER_00]: quite globally, I would say, but that said, I think every brand needs to have a benefit to humanity that is outside just of what they do.

                      37:14.784 –> 37:17.708

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So for us, it’s giving 10% of net profits back to endangered animals.

                      37:18.008 –> 37:25.918

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So I think if you have something in the core, it can be 1%, it can be 2%, it doesn’t matter, it makes people feel better and it makes you as an owner feel better, right?

                      37:25.958 –> 37:30.564

                      [SPEAKER_00]: You’re doing something good and you’re participating outside of the general business model when you do that.

                      37:30.584 –> 37:32.627

                      [SPEAKER_00]: I mean,

                      37:32.607 –> 37:34.228

                      [SPEAKER_00]: nonprofits that are amazing.

                      37:34.549 –> 37:38.432

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So it just, it makes us feel connected to humanity as the whole.

                      37:38.692 –> 37:43.177

                      [SPEAKER_00]: And then there’s things like, you know, our packaging, we pay attention to our packaging, we try to use recycled.

                      37:43.277 –> 37:47.100

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We, some of our plastics, we’ve brought in our biodegradable.

                      37:47.821 –> 37:53.145

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So we’re constantly sort of playing in that space, trying to find something that’s cost effective and and works.

                      37:53.286 –> 37:57.529

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So I think just constantly keeping that as a forefront of your business model.

                      37:57.630 –> 38:02.614

                      [SPEAKER_00]: You know, not every year you can afford to dive into it because it can be expensive to be more

                      38:02.594 –> 38:07.399

                      [SPEAKER_00]: But certainly keeping it, you know, as an annual discussion is wise.

                      38:08.020 –> 38:08.320

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Nice.

                      38:08.601 –> 38:10.142

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, let’s eat before we say goodbye.

                      38:10.182 –> 38:14.447

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Could you please let the listeners know where they can find you and spirit hoods on the web and social media?

                      38:14.947 –> 38:18.691

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, everything is pretty much at spirit hoods, you know, for spirit hoods.

                      38:19.092 –> 38:22.596

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if you’re curious about writing, I also write a sub-stack.

                      38:22.716 –> 38:24.257

                      [SPEAKER_00]: It’s just sub-stack at Lateefamilton.

                      38:24.318 –> 38:25.699

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So,

                      38:25.848 –> 38:35.161

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Wait, and I, you mentioned briefly the work with other businesses, and I know you help a lot of them with some really tricky e-commerce problems, so could you please also tell the audience a bit about that?

                      38:35.862 –> 38:49.240

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I have a consultancy called The Growth Operative, and, you know, my team is team members that are, that have been working for Spirit Huts, and have usually 20 plus years of experience in the industry, for example, my production manager.

                      38:49.777 –> 38:50.939

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Global production.

                      38:50.999 –> 38:57.833

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So the growth operative is is consultancy for e-com businesses and our main agenda is to educate and train and teach people.

                      38:58.113 –> 39:01.079

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We’re not trying to GATE keep information from you.

                      39:01.600 –> 39:06.570

                      [SPEAKER_00]: We actually want you to be able to take over these things in yourself and understand some of the

                      39:06.550 –> 39:18.348

                      [SPEAKER_00]: the tools and tactics and tricks that we’ve used to cut costs and improve, you know, optimize, you know, even your creative processes, your operations, marketing, like we talked about the SEO, help profound and powerful that can be.

                      39:18.629 –> 39:26.721

                      [SPEAKER_00]: There’s a lot of nuance in that world and we can help brands, do that and we do help brands often, do that depending on what it is that they’re looking for.

                      39:26.801 –> 39:29.826

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So that’s the growth operative, just the growthoperative.com.

                      39:30.247 –> 39:31.208

                      [SPEAKER_00]: So we can find us there.

                      39:31.762 –> 39:32.664

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Really, thank you.

                      39:32.704 –> 39:38.756

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully a few people, I’m sure a few people will be in contact with you via that and we’ll all be going and checking out the Spiriterhoods range as well.

                      39:39.578 –> 39:41.442

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Lity, thank you so much for being on the show.

                      39:41.462 –> 39:45.871

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s been a real treat catching up with you and finding out more about your business and your approach to things.

                      39:45.891 –> 39:47.113

                      [SPEAKER_01]: So thank you so much for being here.

                      39:47.574 –> 39:49.939

                      [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for having me, it was great to chat.

                      39:55.522 –> 39:56.945

                      [SPEAKER_01]: fascinating chat.

                      39:56.965 –> 40:07.965

                      [SPEAKER_01]: I love Latif’s approach to that product development and seeing it so intrinsic with the SEO, and it’s not just about what the audience think they want is about what’s coming down the line as well.

                      40:08.006 –> 40:12.093

                      [SPEAKER_01]: So super fascinating to do all that loads of stuff to take out of that.

                      40:13.276 –> 40:18.846

                      [SPEAKER_01]: I’m probably going to have to listen to this one again myself to make sure I got all the bits and pieces, and maybe

                      40:18.826 –> 40:23.532

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe we’ll get a little too fun again in the future because I suspect he’s got lots more to run through with us.

                      40:23.592 –> 40:25.875

                      [SPEAKER_01]: So if you like that idea, reach out.

                      40:26.035 –> 40:26.536

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Let me know.

                      40:26.576 –> 40:34.787

                      [SPEAKER_01]: You can get your hands on our notes in this episode, including those top tips and links to what we mentioned by heading over to e-commercemasterplanned.com.

                      40:34.807 –> 40:42.437

                      [SPEAKER_01]: You could also use our direct episode short link that’s ECMP.info forward slash episode number to get to the right page straight away.

                      40:42.417 –> 40:48.950

                      [SPEAKER_01]: When you get to the website, go on, add yourself to our email list, so you don’t miss out on any of the things we share to help you improve your business.

                      40:49.551 –> 40:53.479

                      [SPEAKER_01]: And if you liked this episode, then why not check out episode 402?

                      40:53.559 –> 40:54.882

                      [SPEAKER_01]: That’s 402?

                      40:54.982 –> 41:01.776

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I’m chatting to another brand who produced fashion inspired by animals, then don’t need to animal charities.

                      41:01.756 –> 41:02.998

                      [SPEAKER_01]: It’s Bear Kind Sox.

                      41:03.438 –> 41:09.185

                      [SPEAKER_01]: In episode 402, founder Lucy is explaining how they grew their wholesale business to 400 accounts.

                      41:09.766 –> 41:15.813

                      [SPEAKER_01]: And if you want more on fashion than head to the website at ECMP.info4-fashion for all our fashion episodes.

                      41:16.534 –> 41:20.359

                      [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for tuning into this and every episode of the e-commerce master plan podcast.

                      41:20.379 –> 41:27.628

                      [SPEAKER_01]: I bring you a new interview every week because I want to inspire and help e-commerce business owners like you to succeed and thrive with your businesses.

                      41:27.608 –> 41:32.135

                      [SPEAKER_01]: including encouraging businesses and consumers to make more sustainable buying decisions.

                      41:32.635 –> 41:37.903

                      [SPEAKER_01]: So if you know someone this show can help, please tell them to listen to the e-commerce master plan podcast.

                      41:38.303 –> 41:53.245

                      [SPEAKER_02]: I hope you have a great week and don’t forget to keep optimizing.

                      42 min
                    • eCommerce MasterPlan | 597: How Sole Responsibility is Building a Fast-Growing Business from Fashion Returns

                      Simon Payne is the co-founder at Sole Responsibility, a sustainable retail business specialising in the resale and takeback of seconds in the footwear and clothing space. They resell 10,000s of sub-prime shoes and garments a year with growth at 30% year on year. 

                       

                      In this episode, Simon joins Chloe Thomas to explore how resale commerce, changing consumer behavior, AI, and upcoming sustainability legislation are reshaping the future of fashion retail. They discuss why secondhand is becoming mainstream, what ESPR means for brands, and how retailers can turn returns and resale into long-term opportunities. 

                       

                      Hit PLAY to hear: 

                      • Why secondhand fashion is becoming mainstream faster than brands expected  
                      • The surprising way retailers are turning returns into revenue  
                      • How AI is helping identify and resell thousands of unique products 
                      • What Europe’s new ESPR legislation could mean for eCommerce brands  
                      • Why platforms like Vinted are changing consumer behavior forever 
                      • The big question fashion brands may soon have to face: produce less or lose relevance?  

                        •  

                        Dive in: 

                        [05:21] Using AI for product identification 

                        [07:34] Focusing on product returns and resale 

                        [10:32] Rise of social live shopping 

                        [14:57] Challenges with product traceability 

                        [16:58] Sustainability and product reuse challenges 

                        [20:40] Trends in UK retail shopping 

                        [24:20] Future of production and sustainability 

                        [25:53] Listen to Simon’s Top Tips! 

                         

                        Full episode notes here: https://ecmp.info/597

                        —

                        Download our ebook… https://ecmp.info/ebook 500 Tips to Increase Your Profits

                        Get all the links and resources we mention and join our email list at https://ecmp.info

                        Love the show? Chloe would love your feedback – leave a review here: https://ecmp.info/review or reply to the episode QandA on Spotify.

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                        WEBVTT

                        00:00.031 –> 00:21.820

                        [SPEAKER_02]: The economy is getting a little bit harder, and people have got a little bit less money, but they still like the nice things, and that’s why people are starting to move towards seconds and returns, because the majority of the time, you know, when you sort of work with all the premium tea brands, different nominal products, and keeping them in circulation as long as possible is definitely the best thing to do.

                        00:24.027 –> 00:26.534

                        [SPEAKER_01]: It’s the e-commerce master plan podcast.

                        00:27.175 –> 00:31.146

                        [SPEAKER_01]: Air to help you solve your marketing problems and grow your e-commerce business.

                        00:31.687 –> 00:39.808

                        [SPEAKER_01]: Cutting through the hinder to bring you inspiration and advice from the e-commerce sector and beyond, here’s your host, Chloe Thomas.

                        00:42.758 –> 00:43.940

                        [SPEAKER_00]: Hello and welcome.

                        00:43.960 –> 00:45.123

                        [SPEAKER_00]: It’s great to have you here.

                        00:45.163 –> 00:48.910

                        [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for hitting play and choosing to listen to one of our inspiring guests.

                        00:49.411 –> 00:54.842

                        [SPEAKER_00]: In this episode I’m catching up with a retailer I first chatted with for a virtual summit a few years ago.

                        00:54.882 –> 01:00.092

                        [SPEAKER_00]: So it’s great to get to catch up and to finally be able to share what he’s up to with a wider audience.

                        01:00.072 –> 01:04.038

                        [SPEAKER_00]: because it’s a super clever business model where everyone involved really wins.

                        01:04.539 –> 01:14.215

                        [SPEAKER_00]: Now, we don’t get hugely into his business model here because we get a little bit distracted with the bigger picture of what’s going on in the fashion sustainability space in Europe.

                        01:15.056 –> 01:19.023

                        [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, we’re talking ESPR, but we’re not getting hugely techy into it.

                        01:19.043 –> 01:25.293

                        [SPEAKER_00]: We’re more talking about the massive ramifications for consumer sales, e-commerce, and far more.

                        01:25.353 –> 01:25.894

                        [SPEAKER_00]: It’s real,

                        01:25.874 –> 01:27.278

                        [SPEAKER_00]: real thought-provoking one.

                        01:27.318 –> 01:37.048

                        [SPEAKER_00]: I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation with Simon, so prepare to be intrigued, I think, is probably the right word, and make sure you listen to the N so you catch his top tips as well.

                        01:42.513 –> 01:44.958

                        [SPEAKER_00]: and now to introduce our special guest.

                        01:44.978 –> 01:54.997

                        [SPEAKER_00]: Simon Payne is the co-founder at Soul Responsibility, a sustainable retail business specializing in the resale and takeback of seconds in the footwear and clothing space.

                        01:55.417 –> 02:02.050

                        [SPEAKER_00]: They resale tens of thousands of subprime shoes and garments a year with growth at 30% year on year.

                        02:02.110 –> 02:03.332

                        [SPEAKER_00]: Hello Simon.

                        02:03.352 –> 02:04.234

                        [SPEAKER_02]: What do we help you?

                        02:04.889 –> 02:13.543

                        [SPEAKER_00]: I’m good, really excited to be talking to you about all of this, because I think your business is fascinating and your space is insanely fascinating at the moment.

                        02:14.124 –> 02:17.409

                        [SPEAKER_00]: Before we get into that, how did you end up in the world of e-commerce?

                        02:18.150 –> 02:24.400

                        [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that’s a very good point, so we’ve been doing this for quite a while now, we’ve been in the space for…

                        02:24.717 –> 02:27.361

                        [SPEAKER_02]: probably the best part of 15 years.

                        02:27.421 –> 02:29.464

                        [SPEAKER_02]: I would say working with seconds of returns.

                        02:30.085 –> 02:33.610

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So I think we were, we were probably slightly ahead of the curve.

                        02:34.551 –> 02:37.636

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So we’ve kind of cut our teeth for quite a long time.

                        02:37.656 –> 02:41.882

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So I think we know the space hopefully inside out with a bit of luck.

                        02:42.875 –> 02:56.143

                        [SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, I think you definitely do given the years you spent doing this for big names on the high street, you’re not just taking back some not dodgy trainers, but some random non-branded trainers that someone knows about.

                        02:56.163 –> 03:00.833

                        [SPEAKER_00]: You’re taking back big name brands from big name high street brands, aren’t you?

                        03:01.032 –> 03:01.713

                        [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, very much.

                        03:02.494 –> 03:14.671

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So we’ve been with JD Sports as a sustainable part and now for sort of five or six years, we’ve also worked with several of the main retailers.

                        03:15.252 –> 03:23.563

                        [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, we’re seeing brands like Nike, Adi, on Hulk, you know, put a click like that when we’re working with the retailers.

                        03:23.543 –> 03:33.334

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, certainly, it’s a fascinating space to be in, you know, when we started out all those years ago, it was super exciting then.

                        03:33.354 –> 03:42.205

                        [SPEAKER_02]: It was, it was a lot tougher than because we were pushing forward something that we thought, you know, very confidently that was going to happen.

                        03:42.885 –> 03:49.433

                        [SPEAKER_02]: And now we’re sort of in the mix with it all, is a little bit madness, but it’s, it’s all good, it’s all, it’s very exciting.

                        03:49.902 –> 03:57.672

                        [SPEAKER_00]: And it must be product-wise, it must be really complicated because every skew is different.

                        03:58.293 –> 04:01.997

                        [SPEAKER_00]: It’s not like you can list trainer X in various sizes.

                        04:02.518 –> 04:05.942

                        [SPEAKER_00]: Each one has some kind of thing that’s made it a second or made it a return.

                        04:06.042 –> 04:09.767

                        [SPEAKER_00]: So do you literally have to photo graph everything?

                        04:10.169 –> 04:12.233

                        [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, everything is different.

                        04:13.956 –> 04:16.520

                        [SPEAKER_02]: We didn’t choose an easy project, did we?

                        04:16.540 –> 04:24.774

                        [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so you can have anything from a toolbox issue to a heal issue or, you know, slice or to the marks.

                        04:25.015 –> 04:32.768

                        [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it is interesting, but yeah, we do pretty much have to photograph.

                        04:32.900 –> 04:50.385

                        [SPEAKER_02]: every single issue which I think certainly from a retailers and brand perspective thing is the absolute exact opposite with a lot of these guys you can just upload a spreadsheet and you know within a couple of hours you you know might have 20, 30,000 different skews.

                        04:50.365 –> 04:53.371

                        [SPEAKER_02]: That’s certainly not the case with us, although I wish it was.

                        04:53.893 –> 05:02.912

                        [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we deal with everything pretty much individually, although we’ve got really good tech in the business now that helps us to get on top of what we’re doing.

                        05:02.952 –> 05:05.337

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So it doesn’t really speed things up for us.

                        05:05.907 –> 05:21.435

                        [SPEAKER_00]: I guess it’s another reason why these big brands need you is that being set up to do the type of product listing and product selling that you’re doing, compared to doing what JD sports, for example, is doing it’s completely different workflows isn’t it?

                        05:21.787 –> 05:22.488

                        [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, massively.

                        05:22.609 –> 05:34.613

                        [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, for example, when we’ve been working with retailers and brands, we do see product that will come in as seconds of returns in different pallets or different forms.

                        05:35.394 –> 05:38.901

                        [SPEAKER_02]: And we’ve sort of invested internally in,

                        05:38.881 –> 05:40.664

                        [SPEAKER_02]: AI software.

                        05:40.804 –> 05:45.291

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So AI has been really, really key for us without giving the game away.

                        05:45.351 –> 05:59.033

                        [SPEAKER_02]: We have software where we can take photographs of products, the products are then automatically identified, so we could point it basically with a camera and iPad point it at your foot.

                        05:59.013 –> 06:06.143

                        [SPEAKER_02]: take the photo and it will tell you within a high accuracy range of what you’ve got on your foot really.

                        06:06.544 –> 06:25.932

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So if I’m wearing a Nike Air Force one it’ll tell me I’m wearing a Nike Air Force one it’ll tell me the colour and then it’s got a really strong chance of deciphering the rest of it and then from when we’re listing on certain platforms it automatically puts into a listing

                        06:25.912 –> 06:35.787

                        [SPEAKER_02]: One phase is tells you what it is and then onto the next screen puts into item specifics and then off you pop and then they start to list it

                        06:36.273 –> 06:42.220

                        [SPEAKER_00]: even occurred to me you’d have to do item identification before you can even start creating the listings.

                        06:42.240 –> 07:01.842

                        [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no it’s crazy I mean you know because we’ve been doing this for such a long time and there’s probably not many people in our space certainly at the levels that we kind of go out we’ve created that that’s one part of our tech that we’ve created and then the other part of the

                        07:01.822 –> 07:10.177

                        [SPEAKER_02]: is looking to sort of plug in to retailers and get the retailers to basically send it direct hidden to others as a full circle.

                        07:10.738 –> 07:25.686

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So I know we’ll be discussing a little bit of the ESPR sort of with indie interview, but it’s kind of sitting as that sort of sustainable partner for for retailers and brands and you know helping with that kind of solution that’s going forward.

                        07:26.189 –> 07:34.221

                        [SPEAKER_00]: So rather than a return coming back to their warehouse to be processed and then sent to you, it just comes straight back to you to be listed and resold.

                        07:34.822 –> 07:35.843

                        [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, pretty much.

                        07:35.944 –> 07:45.478

                        [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we’re trying to work on different sort of parts of either carbon emissions or convenience, you know, what works well for the retailers and brands.

                        07:46.179 –> 07:55.032

                        [SPEAKER_02]: And from a full circle perspective, it’s kind of how would you make it slicker and smooth that, you know, returns are

                        07:55.012 –> 07:57.716

                        [SPEAKER_02]: not ideal for retailers or brands.

                        07:58.357 –> 08:05.307

                        [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, moving forward, the consumers actually like these products because you get like the brand recognition.

                        08:05.327 –> 08:10.614

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So you might have a slightly used knife, but the important thing is to keep it in circulation for as long as possible.

                        08:11.135 –> 08:13.138

                        [SPEAKER_02]: And you’re certainly finding that

                        08:13.118 –> 08:42.248

                        [SPEAKER_02]: the retail is now our understanding this and you know I suppose on a slight in depth is the economy is getting a little bit harder and and people have got a little bit less money but they still like the nice things and and that’s why people are starting to move towards seconds or returns because the majority of the time you know it’s when you sort of work with all the premium tier brands you know the phenomenal products and keeping

                        08:42.650 –> 08:55.714

                        [SPEAKER_00]: it’s a fascinating time in certainly the UK consumer space at the moment because we’ve kind of got this, this multi-wame, a whole lot of like there’s been a cultural shift.

                        08:55.947 –> 08:59.354

                        [SPEAKER_00]: to, you know, mainly I would say driven by the likes of Vinted.

                        09:00.416 –> 09:11.758

                        [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we’ve seen eBay playing catcher with some love island getting on board, this whole like the cult of the second hand clothes and all of us seem to have vintage problems, addictions these days.

                        09:12.339 –> 09:17.128

                        [SPEAKER_00]: But there’s been like that consumer piece that’s then coupled with the economic piece of

                        09:17.108 –> 09:18.470

                        [SPEAKER_00]: having less money to spend.

                        09:19.251 –> 09:34.674

                        [SPEAKER_00]: Combined with, as you mentioned, ESPR and the other legislation coming down on bigger businesses and ever smaller businesses to force them to care more about the end of life of the product, not just, it’s left our warehouse, we don’t care anymore.

                        09:34.934 –> 09:42.846

                        [SPEAKER_00]: There’s so many things now pushing from the consumer side and from the legislative side to make businesses

                        09:43.484 –> 09:49.212

                        [SPEAKER_02]: I would say is possibly the biggest melting pot that you could ever get involved in.

                        09:49.232 –> 09:59.026

                        [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the synergies are absolutely massive and what is going on with the resale platforms and everything is just crazy.

                        09:59.827 –> 10:06.336

                        [SPEAKER_02]: You’ve got places like, you know, Vincent who are doing absolutely phenomenal and

                        10:06.316 –> 10:10.947

                        [SPEAKER_02]: think I’m correct in saying within France they’re probably the biggest retailer or something like that.

                        10:11.107 –> 10:13.012

                        [SPEAKER_02]: There’s some statistics around that.

                        10:13.573 –> 10:17.262

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So everyone is going on to places like Vinted.

                        10:17.703 –> 10:21.372

                        [SPEAKER_02]: There’s also, you know, so it’s likely talking about the economy.

                        10:21.352 –> 10:32.786

                        [SPEAKER_02]: people are putting together a little side hustles or they’re just sort of having the need to start selling their, you know, their old t-shirts or their old shoes or anything like that.

                        10:32.806 –> 10:46.363

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So there’s probably economic pressures as well, that sort of pushing one side as well and the kind of pushing families that, you know, to afford the next thing that they’re then having to definitely definitely sell more and more.

                        10:46.343 –> 10:53.852

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So there’s economic pressures on families that are probably accelerating the places like like Vincent.

                        10:54.232 –> 11:00.779

                        [SPEAKER_02]: But then on the other side, you’ve got platforms like whatnot and tilt who are doing the social shopping.

                        11:01.320 –> 11:09.229

                        [SPEAKER_02]: Now that’s completely different because what you’re finding is that you’re moving away from what is a transactional model.

                        11:09.209 –> 11:17.516

                        [SPEAKER_02]: where people actually go and review and have a look at it on the website and everything and they may be sending the odd question and then they purchase it.

                        11:17.977 –> 11:37.714

                        [SPEAKER_02]: To places like what not until where they are social life shopping and you’ve got guys and presenters who are selling the product there and then and that’s across sorts of seconds of returns and you and you know

                        11:37.694 –> 11:40.317

                        [SPEAKER_02]: turning your mobile phone into a QVC.

                        11:40.858 –> 11:46.605

                        [SPEAKER_02]: And that’s massively spiking the demand for actually stock as well.

                        11:46.986 –> 11:49.329

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So the whole thing is massive.

                        11:49.349 –> 11:57.519

                        [SPEAKER_02]: And then when you’re looking at what is just the tip of the iceberg for the ESPR, I don’t actually know what that’s going to bring.

                        11:57.980 –> 12:06.250

                        [SPEAKER_02]: If I’m completely honest, because it hasn’t been implemented as yet, but it will be very, very soon.

                        12:06.230 –> 12:08.234

                        [SPEAKER_02]: interesting, scary.

                        12:09.156 –> 12:13.465

                        [SPEAKER_02]: I don’t know if anyone knows what’s going on, but slightly exciting, I think.

                        12:14.547 –> 12:18.675

                        [SPEAKER_00]: I think you know more about what’s going on, the most of us, and probably most of our listeners as well.

                        12:18.715 –> 12:23.104

                        [SPEAKER_00]: So Simon, could you give us the quick bullet point guide to ESPI?

                        12:23.184 –> 12:27.192

                        [SPEAKER_00]: What does it stand for, where is it coming in, when is it coming in, who is it going to affect?

                        12:27.560 –> 12:32.728

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So ESPR is eco-design for sustainable product regulation.

                        12:33.269 –> 12:46.009

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So what we deal with from our side of it is predominantly the seconds of the returns, so the kind of the unsold goods, so the responsibility and accountability for that side of it.

                        12:46.530 –> 12:48.813

                        [SPEAKER_02]: That’s what we kind of take from the legislation.

                        12:49.334 –> 12:55.744

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So it’s just making sure that I think it’s the 19th of July, this year.

                        12:55.724 –> 12:57.709

                        [SPEAKER_02]: and it’s predominantly within Europe.

                        12:57.809 –> 13:07.854

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So there isn’t anything specific within the UK, as yet, but businesses over a certain volume within Europe brands as well.

                        13:08.376 –> 13:13.328

                        [SPEAKER_02]: They are responsible for their seconds of returns, which is fantastic news.

                        13:13.983 –> 13:19.530

                        [SPEAKER_00]: And for those brands who are in Europe, is that your business is a European business?

                        13:19.771 –> 13:23.776

                        [SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, you’re a registered in France or Germany or Spain, et cetera.

                        13:23.796 –> 13:27.241

                        [SPEAKER_00]: Or is it that you sell insufficient quantities into those regions?

                        13:28.262 –> 13:31.407

                        [SPEAKER_02]: My understanding is where you sell within those regions.

                        13:31.987 –> 13:35.372

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So obviously there are global brands who sell within those regions.

                        13:35.893 –> 13:39.197

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So that’s kind of what I interpret as has.

                        13:39.835 –> 13:54.575

                        [SPEAKER_00]: It would make sense that it is that way around and that’s how what little I’ve read about it suggests because otherwise you’d just see a mass outflux of fashion businesses suddenly registering in New York or London going as a very easy loophole.

                        13:54.695 –> 13:57.960

                        [SPEAKER_00]: Why not that easy loophole, but a lot more straightforward.

                        13:58.580 –> 14:01.945

                        [SPEAKER_00]: So if you’re a UK business only selling in the UK,

                        14:01.925 –> 14:08.162

                        [SPEAKER_00]: You’re not currently affected, but I think we can be pretty certain that this is the way the legislative waves are going.

                        14:08.182 –> 14:13.656

                        [SPEAKER_00]: But if you’re a UK business selling significant quantities into Europe, then this is going to affect you too.

                        14:14.092 –> 14:19.340

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So I think a lot of the smaller brands, I mean, there is a banding over the next, I think it’s in the next five years.

                        14:19.360 –> 14:26.892

                        [SPEAKER_02]: I at least to do with, to do with revenue off the top of my head, I believe two million pound businesses seem to be exempt.

                        14:27.914 –> 14:30.157

                        [SPEAKER_02]: Then up to 30 million is geese coming soon.

                        14:30.217 –> 14:35.205

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So it’s more a case of the bigger businesses and at least.

                        14:35.185 –> 14:38.109

                        [SPEAKER_02]: It’s probably aimed at a larger brands.

                        14:38.410 –> 14:43.378

                        [SPEAKER_02]: I would say, you know, there’s quite a few or global brands who are specifically out there.

                        14:43.798 –> 14:46.102

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So it’s applicable to them, I would say.

                        14:46.923 –> 14:47.744

                        [SPEAKER_00]: What’s it?

                        14:48.285 –> 14:56.738

                        [SPEAKER_00]: And basically this legislation is around as the manufacture of the goods you’re responsible for its lifetime.

                        14:57.072 –> 15:12.039

                        [SPEAKER_02]: Pretty much, I think that’s the kind of just behind it is that, let’s say, for example, you put it into a country and it did end up in a landfill somewhere, the accountability is coming back to the brand, which is super, super key.

                        15:12.500 –> 15:16.667

                        [SPEAKER_02]: It also means that, you know, certainly throughout the cycle, there’s

                        15:16.647 –> 15:21.073

                        [SPEAKER_02]: there’s going to be a lot of trusts, you know, with who everyone is, is working with.

                        15:21.534 –> 15:26.180

                        [SPEAKER_02]: But I think the changes are just going to be, did you just going to be so massive?

                        15:26.240 –> 15:41.440

                        [SPEAKER_02]: It’s hard to understand what what it will look like in 6, 12, 24 months when it has actually kicked in and then what the remnants afterwards are and the enforcement and everything else set and see how that kind of works.

                        15:41.420 –> 15:47.790

                        [SPEAKER_02]: because when you’re looking at traceability of products, generally it’s exceptionally hard to trace products.

                        15:48.211 –> 15:59.909

                        [SPEAKER_02]: You know, once it’s gone and it’s kind of out in the ether as it were and it’s been worn, the actual sort of network to find stuff is exceptionally hard.

                        16:00.410 –> 16:06.820

                        [SPEAKER_02]: You know, a five-ball pair of shoes and then again this is kind of when it goes on the vintage

                        16:06.800 –> 16:16.152

                        [SPEAKER_02]: goes into the re-sale and tracing that all the way through is is super difficult and you know there’s not really an infrastructure for that as yet.

                        16:16.192 –> 16:35.035

                        [SPEAKER_00]: No, it’s going to be really fascinating how it evolves in Europe and then how it ends up evolving elsewhere in terms of legislation but also in terms of what the companies proactively do, either because they’ve made changes in Europe and have seen that deliver for them

                        16:35.015 –> 16:47.047

                        [SPEAKER_00]: because some of the elements of this should be cost-savours or profit-improvers, you know, adding a second-hand market place to your store, creating less waste in production, less over stock, etc.

                        16:47.868 –> 16:59.200

                        [SPEAKER_00]: But also how countries not even in Europe learn from those, so companies are even in Europe learn from those and start pushing things further forwards in how they deal with their own products.

                        16:59.517 –> 17:13.473

                        [SPEAKER_02]: I think one of the key things probably within kind of vintage and a lot of these resale platforms is the good thing that you are doing is that you’re keeping using the product for as long as possible, which is fantastic.

                        17:14.033 –> 17:26.267

                        [SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of sort of, but where including can be worn for a very long time, I think that the knock on effect at some point will be, it may well actually drop initial production.

                        17:26.247 –> 17:39.625

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So you have got so many that it’s been produced, but if you keep putting new products into the market and a place has been to our really, really kicking off, then it’s going to keep going through and through all the time.

                        17:39.766 –> 17:46.435

                        [SPEAKER_02]: And you’re actually going to start using it, you know, say, for example, you know, you might go for a year to two years.

                        17:47.076 –> 17:55.427

                        [SPEAKER_02]: But then I was at a meeting about two or three weeks ago, as we can to a chap about the new materials that are coming in.

                        17:55.407 –> 18:01.136

                        [SPEAKER_02]: and we were saying, well, vintage brilliant and everything keeps being recycled and being reused.

                        18:01.156 –> 18:18.124

                        [SPEAKER_02]: But how do you get the market penetration of these new materials actually coming into the marketplace because you’ve got all the different sorts of chemical mixers and all the different blends, which is sort of what people want to get out because they’re not easily recyclable.

                        18:18.104 –> 18:47.689

                        [SPEAKER_02]: you’ve got this massive kind of flywheel effects of going on and you know having onto numerous different conferences, everyone’s pushing or you know there’s all these different materials that we need to get in and be easier to break down and then all this you know wonderful new shoes shoe design and everything else and which is which is wonderful you know there’s like module shoes which are coming out and that’s

                        18:47.669 –> 18:49.050

                        [SPEAKER_02]: you reusing out with it.

                        18:49.090 –> 18:53.234

                        [SPEAKER_02]: When does it all sort of come in and then do we start producing less?

                        18:53.314 –> 18:57.918

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So it’s I think it could be absolutely madness if I’m honest.

                        18:59.880 –> 19:03.704

                        [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, these new materials do need to come into the marketplace.

                        19:04.204 –> 19:17.136

                        [SPEAKER_02]: But you know, realistically, if you see the sort of a prize of these platforms, you know, you’ve got to be increasing, you know, full market penetration

                        19:18.078 –> 19:30.650

                        [SPEAKER_00]: we have to be moving from a world where you buy a dress and it sits in the wardrobe for five or six years and you may be where it two or three times.

                        19:31.190 –> 19:39.378

                        [SPEAKER_00]: So it’s a two or three times and then you give it to a charity shop and then it may be gets worn by someone else once or twice and then it gets thrown away.

                        19:39.398 –> 19:42.180

                        [SPEAKER_00]: It took like 90s and 90s and 90s behaviour here.

                        19:43.041 –> 19:47.545

                        [SPEAKER_00]: So that seven times

                        19:47.525 –> 20:02.580

                        [SPEAKER_00]: You might just have rented the dress, so it’s getting worn once a week or once a fortnight, or you’re in a scenario where you wear the dress, you sell it on vintage, it gets bought by someone else and it gets worn at a four times a year rather than three times in five years.

                        20:02.560 –> 20:06.684

                        [SPEAKER_00]: And if we’re, you know, there’s only so many clothes a human can be and can wear in a week.

                        20:07.204 –> 20:23.699

                        [SPEAKER_00]: So so if we’re, if we’re making better use of the clothing that already exists, then the amount of new clothing that needs to be produced outside the world of socks and pants and bras, because you know, they do get worn out and you probably don’t want second hand of those.

                        20:24.880 –> 20:32.247

                        [SPEAKER_00]: But outside of them, we are presumably going to be in a space where less new will need to be bought

                        20:32.227 –> 20:36.714

                        [SPEAKER_00]: We certainly have so much space in our wardrobe, we can do still only wear so many pieces of clothing a week.

                        20:36.774 –> 20:39.317

                        [SPEAKER_00]: If we’re increasing the number of wears per garment.

                        20:40.379 –> 20:46.107

                        [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that’s a such a good way of putting it across the amount of wears that you have.

                        20:46.788 –> 21:00.208

                        [SPEAKER_02]: And the other thing that we’ve kind of got, and this is quite a big sort of retail shopping, but in the UK, there’s a lot of socials, there’s a lot of drops, a lot of designs, and a lot of influences.

                        21:00.188 –> 21:04.878

                        [SPEAKER_02]: There’s a lot of people who are influencing us within the market to buy new stock.

                        21:05.719 –> 21:15.379

                        [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we’ve got places like Manchester, huge shopping centres and everything, always pushing the latest to the new.

                        21:15.359 –> 21:25.217

                        [SPEAKER_02]: you have got what is probably going to be two very compelling and competing narratives over the next 10 years and that is going to be.

                        21:25.678 –> 21:36.658

                        [SPEAKER_02]: Well maybe three potentially, you know, you’ve got the filtered and those platforms and the pre-live garments and keeping it going which is absolutely imperative.

                        21:36.638 –> 21:41.086

                        [SPEAKER_02]: You’ve got the retailers who have produced the garments in the first place.

                        21:41.547 –> 21:50.965

                        [SPEAKER_02]: They’re now being really sort of well used and heavily used, but then they’re also the retellens of the brands are wanting to sell you the latest drop and everything else.

                        21:51.446 –> 21:58.680

                        [SPEAKER_02]: And then on the third side of it, you’ve probably got what is going to be legislation driven and you’ve got

                        21:58.660 –> 22:03.866

                        [SPEAKER_02]: you know certain percentage of the new materials within ranges.

                        22:04.346 –> 22:18.261

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So a lot of the a lot of the brands are only putting small percentage of their range with the new materials like you know some of them are maybe five to seven percent of their range has the new materials and then it’s all competing for the same thing.

                        22:18.321 –> 22:25.849

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So where are you buying and the brands and the retail is kind of

                        22:25.829 –> 22:33.499

                        [SPEAKER_02]: They’ll want these new materials in, but then they’ll also want to be a massive activist for sustainability.

                        22:34.239 –> 22:37.343

                        [SPEAKER_02]: But then they’d also like to sell you a new droplet, a new pair of trainers.

                        22:37.704 –> 22:41.569

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So it’s just going to be interesting how that comes.

                        22:42.089 –> 22:49.879

                        [SPEAKER_02]: I think the younger generations, certainly my daughters, love-vinted and places like that.

                        22:49.859 –> 23:07.800

                        [SPEAKER_02]: And do the thing is that stigma’s being removed as well, you know, sort of 2030 years ago, second-hand was not what it is now, now that that sort of generation of 16 to 25 is hugely embracing it, which is incredible to see.

                        23:08.540 –> 23:20.975

                        [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think if I think back to my uni days, which when eBay was just starting and the port as large was starting to get over well with a number of eBay parcels, I reckon right now they would be drowning invented.

                        23:20.995 –> 23:31.527

                        [SPEAKER_00]: I think absolutely drowning invented if we were, if we were at uni, you need to day, because that eBay was buying, our eBay habit was buying really random stuff.

                        23:31.507 –> 23:35.921

                        [SPEAKER_00]: really random, so it definitely wasn’t reuse, recycle, etc.

                        23:35.961 –> 23:42.141

                        [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn’t very worthy, but properly random, but I think it is interesting what the role of.

                        23:43.150 –> 23:52.788

                        [SPEAKER_00]: The fashion brand business is going to be as we move through these changes, fashion in particular, which I think is going to be the most impacted by this consumer shift.

                        23:53.790 –> 24:06.373

                        [SPEAKER_00]: Because yes, there’s ways of making money out of your second hand market, but does that enable you to still support the infrastructure, the humans, the space,

                        24:06.353 –> 24:20.143

                        [SPEAKER_00]: And the brand that you have that is currently founded on new new new new new new endless amounts of new and more and more and overstock and it’s a huge huge it’s going to be a huge shift in the space.

                        24:20.647 –> 24:40.900

                        [SPEAKER_02]: I think you will, and you know, eventually at some points, you know, and I don’t know if this is going to be 10 years plus production will have to be reduced, M.O.Qs, and what their M.O.Qs are in fact, trees, and either reducing them, yeah, it is going to be fascinating because

                        24:40.880 –> 24:45.169

                        [SPEAKER_02]: The, the eventually will be competing against one another.

                        24:45.710 –> 24:56.794

                        [SPEAKER_02]: You know, again, it’s the it might be 10 years, but the brands and retailers will be selling obviously their the garments and the footwear and they’ll want it to last a long time.

                        24:57.074 –> 24:57.876

                        [SPEAKER_02]: But

                        24:57.856 –> 24:59.338

                        [SPEAKER_02]: I just don’t know what is going to happen.

                        24:59.879 –> 25:00.359

                        [SPEAKER_02]: I don’t know.

                        25:00.439 –> 25:09.552

                        [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I’m a huge advocate of obviously what I do and I always buy second hand and I have done for a very, very long time.

                        25:10.213 –> 25:11.975

                        [SPEAKER_02]: But I like the brand equity.

                        25:11.995 –> 25:24.051

                        [SPEAKER_02]: I like the brand equity and I like, you know, sort of being able to keep that going and that for me, you know, I’ve done that for the past probably 35, 40 years.

                        25:25.093 –> 25:26.074

                        [SPEAKER_02]: I am that young.

                        25:27.708 –> 25:32.834

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So you have to have to do it for a long time and the next generation is starting to do that, which is great.

                        25:35.838 –> 25:40.604

                        [SPEAKER_01]: E-commerce master plan is supporting by some of the greatest companies in the E-commerce sector.

                        25:40.744 –> 25:48.714

                        [SPEAKER_01]: Here’s a reminder of who they are.

                        25:48.734 –> 25:51.117

                        [SPEAKER_01]: It’s time for the top six round.

                        25:53.375 –> 25:58.500

                        [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I love this section because it gives me and I’ll list us some really quick ideas for taking up businesses to the next level.

                        25:58.560 –> 26:00.342

                        [SPEAKER_00]: Simon, are you ready for the top tips?

                        26:01.062 –> 26:01.343

                        [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.

                        26:02.484 –> 26:03.685

                        [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you’re nervous.

                        26:03.745 –> 26:04.425

                        [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, there.

                        26:04.445 –> 26:05.827

                        [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, the book top tip.

                        26:06.107 –> 26:12.473

                        [SPEAKER_00]: If everyone listening to this podcast agreed to take Friday off and read a book to make their business better, which book would you recommend?

                        26:13.514 –> 26:15.896

                        [SPEAKER_02]: Outliers, who’s one of my favorite books.

                        26:16.137 –> 26:18.439

                        [SPEAKER_02]: I’m not sure if you’ve ready to or not.

                        26:18.519 –> 26:22.943

                        [SPEAKER_00]: I don’t think I have

                        26:23.041 –> 26:25.886

                        [SPEAKER_02]: Outliers was a, what are my favorites?

                        26:26.167 –> 26:33.160

                        [SPEAKER_02]: It was the 10,000 hour broken, and that, for me, was absolutely fascinating.

                        26:34.101 –> 26:39.852

                        [SPEAKER_00]: And the traffic top tip, which marketing method do either prize above all others or think doesn’t get the press it deserves.

                        26:40.608 –> 26:46.156

                        [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously across the socials, you know, there’s places like, I would say places like LinkedIn.

                        26:47.097 –> 26:48.659

                        [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I quite like that.

                        26:48.859 –> 27:00.395

                        [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it’s a very sort of set market who you’re working with and for me, huge, you know, you’ve got a kind of dedicated pool of people, I think sort of within our industry.

                        27:00.896 –> 27:06.143

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So kind of communicating with in the industry for me on LinkedIn is super, super key.

                        27:06.646 –> 27:16.889

                        [SPEAKER_00]: say for anyone who wants to keep on top of what’s going on in a fashion sustainability following Simon is a great idea of LinkedIn because he’s very up to speed with it off.

                        27:17.089 –> 27:19.555

                        [SPEAKER_00]: I must admit I get a lot of my knowledge.

                        27:19.635 –> 27:21.820

                        [SPEAKER_02]: I try to do that myself.

                        27:21.800 –> 27:29.983

                        [SPEAKER_02]: And I think when you go through major shifts and changes, I do get a lot of questions quite regularly on there.

                        27:30.003 –> 27:31.186

                        [SPEAKER_02]: Which I’m very happy to answer.

                        27:31.768 –> 27:37.564

                        [SPEAKER_02]: It’s great to sort of have a chat with people because it’s not always on the top of people’s radar as it is.

                        27:37.966 –> 27:38.808

                        [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no.

                        27:38.868 –> 27:41.394

                        [SPEAKER_00]: And as you said several times, it’s evolving.

                        27:41.454 –> 27:43.018

                        [SPEAKER_00]: It’s not yet fully formed anyway.

                        27:43.078 –> 27:45.625

                        [SPEAKER_00]: So it’s got to try and work out what’s coming.

                        27:45.825 –> 27:56.110

                        [SPEAKER_00]: And tooltop tip, maybe a collaboration tool, a social media plugin, a phone app or just a way of working, is there a cool little tool you use that makes you and your team more efficient from day to day.

                        27:56.815 –> 27:59.581

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So we use everything is done on Trello.

                        28:00.202 –> 28:03.248

                        [SPEAKER_02]: I’m told at times just to put everything in Trello.

                        28:04.350 –> 28:11.044

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So it’s just I kind of, if anyone’s used it, you put your different cards in Trello your date.

                        28:11.064 –> 28:15.313

                        [SPEAKER_02]: And for a lot of my team, I’ve run separate boards.

                        28:15.293 –> 28:43.056

                        [SPEAKER_02]: one with the top team constantly putting ideas and I actively encourage everyone to just sort of brain dump into the app and then we’ll just deal with it later and then we just sort of start moving it around and then we also use it within the rest of the active teams, you know, customer service and streaming and listing everyone has their own Trello board and we communicate through that.

                        28:43.036 –> 28:47.241

                        [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it works really well as a comms tool to be honest, keeps the teams nicely together.

                        28:48.142 –> 28:55.791

                        [SPEAKER_00]: It is mad how many different ways you can use a tool like Trello, you know, from the brainstorming in the idea, capture through two systems management.

                        28:56.212 –> 28:57.594

                        [SPEAKER_00]: It’s so, so adaptable.

                        28:58.515 –> 29:04.622

                        [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, the carbon top tip, what’s your favorite way to reduce the carbon footprint of an e-commerce store?

                        29:05.513 –> 29:08.256

                        [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, getting into the consumer was part of it.

                        29:08.697 –> 29:27.819

                        [SPEAKER_02]: And this is where I kind of, come in as our future potential help and we’re looking to sort of put together from a circular, circular business perspective of working with retailers, et cetera, and actually taking returns directly into us.

                        29:28.980 –> 29:32.905

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So it’s a looking to cut down a large part of carbon emissions.

                        29:32.885 –> 29:36.830

                        [SPEAKER_02]: So that’s something that we’ve kind of been working on internally for quite a while.

                        29:37.370 –> 29:43.918

                        [SPEAKER_00]: Very cool work Simon, before we say goodbye, could you please let the listeners know where they can find you and your business on the web and social media?

                        29:44.879 –> 29:56.193

                        [SPEAKER_02]: I would say that the best place to probably find me is posting on LinkedIn, as they tend to do most days, just sort of going, going, what’s going on within sustainability?

                        29:56.794 –> 30:01.980

                        [SPEAKER_02]: You know, always available to be messages, just drop as a message and always happy to help.

                        30:02.399 –> 30:02.740

                        [SPEAKER_00]: Brilliant.

                        30:02.880 –> 30:09.781

                        [SPEAKER_00]: Simon, thank you so much being on the Ecommerce Master Plan podcast and for sharing so many insights and thoughts with us, I really appreciate it.

                        30:10.382 –> 30:11.486

                        [SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you always.

                        30:11.566 –> 30:11.987

                        [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.

                        30:17.873 –> 30:20.299

                        [SPEAKER_00]: I continue to find Simon’s business fascinating.

                        30:20.319 –> 30:28.701

                        [SPEAKER_00]: I highly recommend going and having a look at their eBay store and there are other stores around the place because what’s so responsibility up to is it’s really impressive the systems of the business.

                        30:28.741 –> 30:31.609

                        [SPEAKER_00]: Not that we got into a lot into it here, but it really is.

                        30:31.789 –> 30:32.912

                        [SPEAKER_00]: And then,

                        30:32.892 –> 30:42.005

                        [SPEAKER_00]: To get a little bit of insight into the bigger picture of what’s going on in the product life cycle, I suppose, more so than just sustainability and the fashion space is fascinating.

                        30:42.025 –> 30:44.889

                        [SPEAKER_00]: So hopefully a very thought-provoking one for you all there.

                        30:45.290 –> 30:53.021

                        [SPEAKER_00]: I bet it’s a good thing if you’re in the eye of that storm at the moment, is there are a lot of solutions providers like Simon who can solve elements of it for you.

                        30:53.421 –> 30:55.204

                        [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn’t have to be

                        30:55.184 –> 30:57.566

                        [SPEAKER_00]: 100% solved by every company in-house.

                        30:58.027 –> 31:04.974

                        [SPEAKER_00]: You get your hands on our notes in this episode including those top tips and links to what we mentioned by heading over to ecommercemasterplanned.com.

                        31:04.994 –> 31:20.550

                        [SPEAKER_00]: You can also use the short links that’s ECMP.info forward slash the number of the episode and that’ll go ahead take you straight to the correct page and when you get to the site you can add yourself to the Chloe Thomas newsletter so you don’t miss out on any of the things I share to help you improve your

                        31:20.530 –> 31:31.420

                        [SPEAKER_00]: If you liked this episode, then have a listen to Episode 536, where I am chatting to another founder, building their business on other retailers deadstock.

                        31:32.101 –> 31:36.746

                        [SPEAKER_00]: That’s Jules Haines from the Haines collection, who operates in the Homeworth Textile space.

                        31:37.166 –> 31:46.555

                        [SPEAKER_00]: And if you want more on fashion, ECMP.info, or slash fashion, we’ll take you to a page on the website where we’ve listed out

                        31:46.535 –> 31:50.321

                        [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for tuning in to this and every episode of the e-commerce master plan podcast.

                        31:50.741 –> 32:00.175

                        [SPEAKER_00]: I bring you a new interview every week because I want to inspire and help e-commerce business owners to succeed and thrive with their businesses, including progressing along the path to net zero.

                        32:00.556 –> 32:05.804

                        [SPEAKER_00]: So if you know someone this show can help please tell them to listen to the e-commerce master plan podcast.

                        32:05.824 –> 32:08.728

                        [SPEAKER_00]: Hope you have a great week and don’t forget to keep optimizing.

                        32:11.560 –> 32:14.991

                        [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for listening to the e-commerce Master Plan podcast.

                        32:15.413 –> 32:20.710

                        [SPEAKER_01]: Find out more at e-commercemasterplanned.com Slash Podcast.

                        33 min

                      About eCommerce Master Plan

                      From the publisher's feed

                      Trying to work out how to acquire more customers? Need to improve customer retention? Or just looking for some reassurance you’re on the right track? That’s what the eCommerce MasterPlan is here for.