In this episode, artist Charles Gaines and fashion designer Grace Wales Bonner explore how art can bridge the gap between what we perceive and what is real, prompting us to question our relationship with truth.

Gaines’s conceptual systems challenge the notion of a singular truth, while Bonner’s fashion designs reveal the layers of identity and history embedded in her work. How do subjective interpretation and objective reality intersect, and where is the line between what we see and what is real?

Music in this episode:

Charles Gaines

Manifestos 6: Ben Patterson. 2023

Performance presented as part of the exhibition Artist’s Choice: Grace Wales

Bonner—Spirit Movers, The Museum of Modern Art, New York, November 16, 2023–April 7, 2024

Performed and filmed on March 21, 2024

Composer: Charles Gaines

Conductor and music director: John Eagle

Producer: Mads Falcone

Violin: Yaz Lancaster

Violin: Connie Li

Viola: Jay Julio

Cello: Wayne Smith

Bass: Marguerite Cox

Percussion and xylophone: Pauline Roberts

Trumpet: Wayne du Maine

Trombone: Sterling Davis

Tuba: Jono Hill

Video documentation and editing: Oresti Tsonopoulos, Alex Munro

Audio mix: Shane O’Connell

Artist’s Choice: Grace Wales Bonner—Spirit Movers is organized by Grace Wales Bonner with Michelle Kuo, The Marlene Hess Curator, Dana Liljegren, Curatorial Assistant, and Elizabeth Wickham, Curatorial Assistant, Department of Painting and Sculpture, MoMA, with the collaboration of Nick Murphy, Curatorial Partner, Pantograph, Paris. Produced by Lizzie Gorfaine, Associate Director and Producer, Performance and Live Programs, with Aminah Ibrahim, Assistant Performance Coordinator, Performance and Live Programs, MoMA.

Thanks to Liam Sangmuah and Jessica Hamenyimana, Research Associates, Wales Bonner.

© 2024 The Museum of Modern Art, New York

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In this episode, artist Gary Simmons and “Surviving R. Kelly” filmmaker dream hampton examine personal and collective memory, what we choose to remember, and what we choose to forget. 

Simmons reflects on how cultural memory—particularly through race and erasure—has influenced his work, from his iconic chalkboard drawings to his installations that blur the lines between representation and abstraction, while hampton considers the silencing of certain memories and the power of reclaiming erased narratives. 

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Liberty: A principle emphasizing freedom, autonomy, and the inherent rights of individuals.

In this episode, artist Lorna Simpson and poet and scholar Dr. Elizabeth Alexander question the nature of individual rights, autonomy, and separate the idea of "liberty" from "freedom" via Simpson's evocative representations of race, gender, and identity and Alexander's celebrated poetic insights.

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Inquiry: The spirit of questioning, exploring, and seeking to understand, rather than merely accept, established truths.

In this episode, artist Pipilotti Rist and MOCA curator Anna Katz unearth the dynamic relationship between nature, technology, and the human experience.

Image Credit: Pipilotti Rist, Twin concept pictures, 2023 © Pipilotti Rist. Courtesy the artist and Hauser & Wirth.

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Progress: the belief in constant societal advancement through reason, knowledge, and education.

In this episode, artist Thomas J Price and renowned scholar Steven Pinker discuss the challenges of defining human advancement and the importance of measuring both tangible and intangible progress.

Image Credit: Installation view, ‘Thomas J Price, Untitled (Icon) Series,’ 2017 © Thomas J Price. Courtesy the artist and Hauser & Wirth. Photo: Ken Adlard

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Individualism: The idea that each person possesses a distinctive and autonomous self that is able to develop within society.

 In this episode, artist Christina Quarles and Xicana writer Cherríe Moraga navigate the conundrum of individual identity, revealing the profound intersections and deviations that shape our understanding of who we are.

Image Credit: Christina Quarles, (And Tell Me Today's Not Today) (detail), 2023 © Christina Quarles. Courtesy the artist, Hauser & Wirth, and Pilar Corrias, London. Photo: Fredrik Nilsen

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Humanism: the value and agency of human beings while recognizing the relationship between the human experience, evolution, and extinction.

In this episode, artist Nicolas Party and researcher Thomas Moynihan explore their mutual interest in human agency, the arbitrary circumstances of planetary civilization—and dinosaurs!

Image Credit: Nicolas Party, Portrait with a Donkey (detail), 2023 © Nicolas Party. Courtesy the artist & Hauser & Wirth. 

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Reason: The application of logic to understand the world and reach greater conclusions.

In this episode, artist Allison Katz and Nuar Alsadir of "Couples Therapy" ponder the uses and limitations of rational thought as a way to understand ourselves, touching on the seen and unseen forces that shape our identity.

Image Credit: Allison Katz, The Cockfather (detail), 2021 © Allison Katz. Courtesy the artist and Hauser & Wirth

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