Elevator Systems - Bowen Family Systems Theory

Welcome to Elevator Systems! In Season 3 Episode 2 hosts Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White are joined by special guest Dr. Guillermo Cancio-Bello to talk about the many aspects and facets of friendship from a Bowen family systems perspective.

Dr. Guillermo Cancio-Bello is an Assistant Professor of Counseling at Barry University and integrates Bowen theory into his clinical, academic, research, and organizational work. His teaching and scholarship focus on systems thinking, leadership development, and the personal and professional growth of counsellors-in-training. Guillermo currently serves as President of the Florida Association of Marriage and Family Counseling (FAMFC) and is also a board member of the Florida Family Research Network, which works to advance the science of human behavior based on the natural systems theory of the family developed by Murray Bowen.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• Differentiation (staying connected and separate) in friendship
• The role of sibling position in friend selection
• Fusion, triangles, and anxiety
• How family of origin impacts adult relationships
• Bowen theory insights on digital vs. in-person connections
• Examples from the biblical friendship of David & Jonathan to sending memes! 

For counsellors or anyone interested in understanding relationships better, this discussion will get you curious about how you show up in your friendships.

Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.

Recommended Resources:

• The Murray Bowen Archives Project 

• The Relationships We Live In podcast: https://rss.com/podcasts/episode-1-the-relationships-we-live-in/
• The Anxious Overachiever newsletter
• Dr Ronald Richardson: Jane Austen’s Guide to Good Relationships
• Dr Kathleen Smith: Everything Isn’t Terrible
• Dr Roberta Gilbert: Extraordinary Relationships
• Dr. Robin Dunbar’s loneliness research

New podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! 

Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.

Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment about how systems thinking is useful in your own friendships.

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.ca

Living Systems Hybrid Conference: October 17–18, 2025

Conference theme: Aging—Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?

Learn more: https://livingsystems.ca/education/conferences/fall-2025-conference-on-aging/

Key Topics:
#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Family #Friendship #TherapyPodcast #MentalHealth #EmotionalMaturity #Differentiation #Relationships #BowenTheory #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #TherapyPodcast #LifeSpan #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProject

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.

Welcome to Season 3 of Elevator Systems!
In our first episode of the season, we're diving into our earliest relationship with parents/caregivers — a formative relationship that shapes us across the lifespan. 

Joining hosts Dixie Vandersluys & Katie White is licensed therapist and author Dr. Kathleen Smith. Kathleen’s books include Everything Isn't Terrible and True to You: A Therapist's Guide to Stop Pleasing Others and Start Being Yourself. Living in Washington, DC, Kathleen is a faculty member at the Bowen Center for the Study of the Family and author of the popular newsletter, The Anxious Overachiever.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• How our relationship with parents is “Olympic training for objectivity” 
• How Bowen family systems theory broadens perspective to multigenerational patterns
• What happens when we see our parents as humans, not heroes or villains
• The role of blame, anxiety, and differentiation in adult relationships
• Why cut-off isn’t always the end and the usefulness of curiosity
• Real-world examples: parenting, loss, tooth hygiene, and “Sweet Caroline” 

Whether you’re navigating family dynamics, interested in personal growth, or work in mental health, this episode has insights, humour, and practical tools to think differently about you and your family story.

Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.

Recommended Resources:

• The Murray Bowen Archives Project 

• The Anxious Overachiever newsletter
• Everything Isn’t Terrible by Dr. Kathleen Smith
• True to You by Dr. Kathleen Smith
• Family Therapy in Clinical Practice by Dr. Murray Bowen
• Family Ties that Bind by Dr. Ron Richardson
• Growing Yourself Up by Dr. Jenny Brown

New podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! 

Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.

Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment with your biggest takeaway or reflection about your own family relationships!

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: 

https://livingsystems.ca

Living Systems Hybrid Conference: October 17–18, 2025

Conference theme: Aging—Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?

Learn more: https://livingsystems.ca/education/conferences/fall-2025-conference-on-aging/

Key Topics:#ParentChildRelationships #TherapyPodcast #MentalHealth #Anxiety #Differentiation #FamilyDynamics #CutOff #Parenting #SelfGrowth #GenerationalTrauma #Family #Relationships #BowenTheory #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #TherapyPodcast #BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Perspective #Generations #History #Humanity #Objectivity #LifeSpan #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProject

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.

Welcome to Season 3 of Elevator Systems!
In this pre-season episode, hosts Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White introduce the theme for the new season: Bowen Family Systems Theory in Relationships Across the Lifespan. 

This season, we’re taking Bowen Theory out and about—applying it to real-life relationships including:

• Childhood
• Friendships
• Pets
• Partnered relationships
• Coworkers
• Parenting
• Later-life relationships

We’re also joined by Elise Steenburgh from The Murray Bowen Archives Project, who shares how the archive’s resources will enrich the season. 

Founded in 2008, The Murray Bowen Archives Project is dedicated to preserving, cataloging, and promoting access to the archival legacy of Dr. Murray Bowen. The organization ensures that Dr. Bowen’s clinical notes, video & audio recordings, photographs, correspondence, and other artifacts are safeguarded and made available for scholarly research and public education. These materials reflect Dr. Bowen’s development of a new theory of human behavior known as Bowen theory.

Explore: https://www.murraybowenarchives.org

Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.

Recommended Resources:

• The Murray Bowen Archives Project 
• Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2
• Growing Yourself Up by Jenny Brown
• The Family Life Cycle edited by Monica McGoldrick & Betty Carter

New podcast episodes every Tuesday starting July 8, 2025!

Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.

Like, Comment & Share to support systems thinking in everyday life.

Living Systems Hybrid Conference: October 17–18, 2025

Conference theme: Aging—Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?

Learn more: https://livingsystems.ca/education/conferences/fall-2025-conference-on-aging/

#BowenTheory #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #BowenFamilySystems #EmotionalUnit #LivingSystems #Therapy #Differentiation #MurrayBowen #SystemsThinking #LifeSpan #MurrayBowenArchives #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProject #TMBAP #PersonalGrowth #Family #Aging

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory:

https://livingsystems.ca

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.

This special podcast episode was recorded live at the Living Systems Annual General Meeting in Vancouver, British Columbia in May 2025. It addresses the question of what is a relationship system — especially what Bowen family systems theory describes as an “emotional system”. Each guest will give a brief elevator pitch of a relationship system, examples, how it is useful to Bowen theory, and takeaway ideas, questions, and resources for further thinking.

Lois Walker started observing diversity among families as a young graduate nurse and became interested in the spiritual needs of individuals and families in cancer care and palliative care. Lois later completed a Masters of Divinity and entered the training program in Bowen theory at North Shore Counselling Center (now Living Systems) in 1990 and then completed three years of the post-graduate program at the Georgetown Family Center (now the Bowen Center for the Study of the Family). For 35 years, Lois has continued to study Bowen theory as well as teach and provide clinical supervision in the training program at Living Systems.

Dr. Ronald Richardson graduated from UCLA, Princeton Seminary, and the Rochester/Colgate Divinity School. He worked as a pastor before becoming a Marriage and Family Therapist and Pastoral Counsellor. He was the former Executive Director of Living Systems and retired in 1995. He was an American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy (AAMFT) Supervisor and a Diplomate for the American Association of Pastoral Counselors (AAPC). He is the author of many books on the application of Bowen family systems theory to organizations and relationships. He is now 85 and has been married to Lois Richardson for 58 years. Find Ron’s books by searching “Ronald W. Richardson” on Amazon.

Resources:

Murray Bowen: Family Therapy in Clinical Practice

Michael E. Kerr & Murray Bowen: Family Evaluation

Michael E. Kerr: Bowen Theory's Secrets

Anne S. McKnight: Thinking Systems

John F. Butler chapter in: The Family Emotional System (Noone & Papero)

Roberta Gilbert: The Eight Concepts of Bowen Theory

Roberta Gilbert: Extraordinary Relationships

Check out Amazon under “Ronald W. Richardson”

Subscribe to Elevator Systems on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts!https://livingsystems.ca/resources/el...

#bowenfamilysystemstheory #bowentheory #murraybowen #relationship #relationships #relationshipsystems #emotionalsystem #emotion #emotional #systems #family #groups #teams

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory:https://livingsystems.ca

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy. The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.

Season 2 Episode 10

This podcast episode looks at the concept of differentiation of self and what is unique about coaching or therapy using Bowen family systems theory. Each guest will give a brief elevator pitch of the concept, along with examples, what they find useful, and takeaway resources and ideas for further thinking.

Kathleen Cotter Cauley is a licensed marriage and family therapist and has a private practice in both Virginia and Florida. She’s been a faculty member of the Bowen Center since 2012. Kathleen was involved in founding the Florida Family Research Network and has been on the faculty of Extraordinary Leadership and Systems Leadership seminars. She has been on review boards dealing with sex abuse scandals in the Catholic Church. She has also worked with guide dogs for over 30 years. Married for 40 years, she is a stepmom, and a grandma to three.

Resources:

Family Matters, Coaching with Bowen Theory: Here

Katherine White, Moving Around the System paper: Here

Bowen networks and coaches across the world: Here

#bowenfamilysystemstheory #bowentheory #murraybowen 

#relationship #family #self #differentiation #differentiationofself

#coaching #therapy #counselling #neutrality #systems

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory:

https://livingsystems.ca

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.

Season 2 Episode 9

This podcast episode looks at the concept of differentiation of self in Bowen family systems theory and what differentiation looks like in one’s own family. Each guest will give a brief elevator pitch of the concept, along with examples, what they find useful, and takeaway resources and ideas for further thinking.

Dr. Mariana Martinez is a clinical psychologist who has applied Bowen theory in her teaching, clinical practice, and leadership roles. After earning her doctorate in clinical psychology, which focused on child and family studies, she joined the Bowen Center in 2008 and joined the faculty in 2012. At the Bowen Center, Mariana directed the Family Clinic for six years, hosted the television show Family Matters, and founded the Ibero-American Institute to promote Bowen theory in Spanish-speaking countries. She is also Executive Director for Family Wealth and Culture Services at Wells Fargo Bank.

Resources:

Elevator Systems, Season 1 - Differentiation of Self episodes

Youtube 1

YouTube 2

Ronald Richardson, Family Ties that Bind: Here.

Jenny Brown, Growing Yourself Up: Here.

Kathleen Smith, Everything Isn’t Terrible: Here.

Martha Welch: Here.

Robert Noone, Family and Self: Here.

Dr. Mariana Martinez, Seeing the Blindspot: Here.

#bowenfamilysystemstheory #bowentheory #murraybowen 

#relationship #family #self #differentiation #differentiationofself

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory:

https://livingsystems.ca

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk

Season 2 Episode 8

This podcast episode looks at the concept of differentiation of self and the ideas of solid self and pseudo self in Bowen family systems theory. Each guest will give a brief elevator pitch of the concept, along with examples, what they find useful, and takeaway resources and ideas for further thinking.

Dr. Carrie Collier is a researcher, lecturer and family therapist specializing in Bowen Family Systems Theory. She earned her PhD in Counsellor Education and has over 25 years of study and practice as a Licensed Professional Counsellor. She is on the faculty of The Bowen Center where she serves on the Board of Directors and was Director for two years. She published and validated a Family Unit Functioning Questionnaire used by therapists and researchers to gather information about families. Her most recent research on the language of naturein Murray Bowen's archival papers can be found in The Australian and New Zealand Journal of Family Therapy.

Resources:

Dr. Carrie Collier - The Language of Nature in Murray Bowen’s Writings: Here
Dr. Murray Bowen, Family Therapy in Clinical Practice (p 364-365): Here
Dr. Murray Bowen, "Chalk Talks": Here
"All the World's A Stage": Here
Kathleen Smith, “Brick Wall Exercise” in Everything Isn’t Terrible: Here

#bowenfamilysystemstheory#bowentheory#murraybowen 

#relationship #self #solid #pseudo #differentiation #differentiationofself

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory:

https://livingsystems.ca

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.

Season 2 Episode 7

This podcast episode looks at the concept of societal emotional process in Bowen family systems theory. Each guest will give a brief elevator pitch of the concept, along with examples, what they find useful, and takeaway resources and ideas for further thinking.

Lois Walker completed a diploma in nursing and then obtained a Bachelor of Nursing. As a young graduate nurse, Lois became interested in observing the diversity among families. Later, her interested was with the spiritual needs of individuals and families while working in cancer care and palliative care.

In 1990, Lois entered the training program in Bowen theory at North Shore Counselling Center in Vancouver. At the same time, she completed a Masters of Divinity at the University of British Columbia. Following this, she completed three years of the post-graduate program at the Georgetown Family Center. (This is now the Bowen Center for the Study of the Family.)

Over the last 34 year, Lois continued to learn and study Bowen theory. She has taught and provided clinical supervision in the training program at Living Systems.

Resources

Family Matters, “Political Reactivity and Self Regulation”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr-VKvkRMqA
Family Matters “Making Decisions in the Midst of an Emotionally Aroused Social Environment”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY8qh5PRWqU
Jonathan Weiner, “The Beak of the Finch” https://tinyurl.com/cexbe5pe
Jacques Barzun “From Dawn to Decadence” https://tinyurl.com/mr42fdj8
Elinor Ostrom, “Governing the Commons” https://tinyurl.com/2hje4vku
Deborah Gordon “The Ecology of Collective Behavior” https://tinyurl.com/2s7p47ns

#bowenfamilysystemstheory#bowentheory#murraybowen#relationship  #family #society #progression #regression #principles #leader #familysystems

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory:

https://livingsystems.ca

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.

Season 2: Episode 6

This podcast episode looks at emotional cutoff in relationships, a concept in Bowen family systems theory. Each guest will give a brief elevator pitch of the concept, along with examples, what they find useful, and takeaway resources and ideas for further thinking.

Dr. Mariana Martinez is a clinical psychologist who has applied Bowen theory in her teaching, clinical practice, and leadership roles. After earning her doctorate in clinical psychology, which focused on child and family studies, she joined the Bowen Center in 2008 and joined the faculty in 2012. At the Bowen Center, Mariana directed the Family Clinic for six years, hosted the television show Family Matters, and founded the Ibero-American Institute to promote Bowen theory in Spanish-speaking countries. She is also Executive Director for Family Wealth and Culture Services at Wells Fargo Bank.

Resources

Family Matters, Cutoff in Family Relationships: here.

Anne McKnight, Two Perspectives on Family Rifts: here.

Family Matters YouTube playlist: here.

Dr. Mariana Martinez, “Seeing the Blindspot” here.

This podcast episode looks at sibling position as a concept in Bowen family systems theory and originating in the research of Dr. Walter Toman. Each guest will give a brief elevator pitch of the concept, along with examples, what they find useful, and takeaway resources and ideas for further thinking.

Alejandro Astorga is a psychologist and family therapist who lives in Santiago de Chile. He has a Masters in family therapy and a Masters in law in children’s rights . He is Director of the Multigenerational Intervention Center in Santiago and a member of the Ibero-American Institute of the Bowen Center for the Study of the family. He is also Technical Director of Corporación Opcion, a non-profit organization that, in collaboration with the government, serves 15,000 children and their families throughout Chile.

Resources:

Walter Toman, “Family Constellation”: here.

Alejandro Astorga research in Spanish:  here, here, and here.

“Sibling Position” and “Sibling Rivalry”

Walter Smith, Family Projection Process: here

TJ Therrien instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tj_therrien/

Eldest daughter research: here , here and here.

#bowenfamilysystemstheory #bowentheory #murraybowen #relationship

#family #siblings #brother #sister #roles #oldest #youngest #middle

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory:

https://livingsystems.ca

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.