Elevator Systems - Bowen Family Systems Theory

Today’s episode explores the application of Bowen family systems theory in understanding mental health. Dr. Sam Stokesberry is our guest looking at the role of the counsellor in navigating their own emotional processes while supporting clients and differentiation of self in therapy. The discussion highlights a nuanced understanding of mental health that considers the interplay of individual and systemic factors.

Samantha Stokesberry, PhD, LPC, NCC is a licensed professional counsellor, consultant, and speaker. Her professional path was shaped by four years living in South Africa, where playing professional soccer and coaching at a futsal academy led her into nonprofit work and her first real world exposure to the human trafficking industry. Today, she provides counselling to individuals and families in Texas and offers consultation and training services internationally. Sam specializes in working with trafficking survivors and their families, as well as families impacted by incest, sexual abuse, and chronic anxiety. Sam has trained at the Bowen Center for the Study of the Family and her doctoral research, which will be published this upcoming year, examines the relationships between differentiation of self, family unit functioning, and post-traumatic growth in adult female survivors of trafficking in the United States.

Resources:

Dr Sam Stokesberry’s practice 

Dr Michael Kerr - Bowen Theory’s Secrets

Dr Jenny Brown - Worry Cycle Podcast Episode

Kathleen Kerr - (1999). The Projection Process in Health Care Systems. Family Systems, 5(1).

Stephanie Ferrera - (1999) What is help: a theoretical and personal perspective. Family Systems, 5(1).

Stephanie Ferrera - The evolution of helping: from altruism to empathy to differentiation of self. In P. Titelman (Ed.) Differentiation of Self: Bowen Family Systems Theory Perspectives. 

Want to speak with a counsellor? Click here

Buy us a “coffee” at https://ko-fi.com/elevatorsystems and support the production of the podcast!

Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1, 2 & 3

Season 4 episodes will be released every two weeks starting Tuesday March 3rd.

Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. Like, subscribe, and comment.

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.ca

Key Topics:
#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen # #SystemsThinking #Polarization #Differences #Trauma #HumanTrafficking #Abuse #Recovery #MentalHealth #Relationships #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.

To introduce Season 4, Dr. Barbara Laymon joins the podcast to discuss the complex dynamics of polarization and the interplay between individuality and togetherness as described in Bowen family systems theory. This episode explores what individuality and togetherness look like in relationships, the impact of societal pressures, and the importance of maturity in navigating differences. Examples, including the Bonhoeffer family, prairie dogs, COVID-19, and the Olympic Games, illustrate natural tendencies towards both cooperation and competition. The conversation offers practical takeaways for managing polarization in everyday life.

Barbara Laymon, Ph.D. is a family systems consultant, a writer and a researcher. Her latest book, “All the Families of the Earth” is a fictional piece imagining family therapists at work behind the scenes of Biblical stories. Her most recent academic article involved a validated scale of congregational functioning, published in the Journal of Pastoral Psychology.

Resources:

Dr Barbara Laymon - All the Families of the Earth 

Dr Barbara Laymon - Measuring Congregational Functioning: A Scale Based Upon Bowen Family

Systems Theory, Journal of Pastoral Psychology

Dr Ronald Richardson - Polarization and the Healthier Church

Denmark “boxes" Commercial - All That We Share
Want to speak with a counsellor? Click here

Buy us a “coffee” at https://ko-fi.com/elevatorsystems and support the production of the podcast!

Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1, 2 & 3

Season 4 episodes will be released every two weeks starting Tuesday March 3rd.

Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. Like, subscribe, and comment.

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.ca

Key Topics:
#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen # #SystemsThinking #Polarization #Differences #HotTopics #Communication #Individuality #Togetherness #Maturity #Bonhoeffer #COVID-19 #Evolution #Prairiedogs #Group #Groupdynamics #UsandThem #Competition #Cooperation #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Therapy #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.

Welcome to the Season 4 kickoff of Elevator Systems! In this episode, Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White share a sneak peek into the themes and topics being explored this season: the tough conversations and topics we often avoid! Join us as we dive into what makes a topic ‘hot’, how to engage more thoughtfully, and how Bowen family systems theory is helpful when tensions rise. Whether you're familiar with Bowen theory or new to these ideas, this season promises lots of ideas and engaging discussion on managing differences in relationships. 

Dixie Vandersluys is a Canadian Certified Counsellor based in Manitoba, Canada. She has undergraduate degrees in history and philosophy and a Master of Arts in Counseling from Providence Theological Seminary.  Dixie enjoys seeing clients across Canada in her private practice. Dixie is also a faculty member at Living Systems and the creator and host of the Elevator Systems podcast.  

Katie White is a Marriage and Family Therapist registered in the US and Canada.  She has been working with individuals, couples and families in schools, clinics, and non-profit centres for twenty years in the US, Australia and Canada. In 2010, Katie began focusing her practice using Bowen family systems theory and has attended the Post-Graduate Program at the Bowen Center.  Katie is currently the Executive Director of Living Systems in Vancouver Canada. Katie teaches and supervises interns there, as well as managing a private practice.

Season 4 episodes will be released every two weeks starting Tuesday March 3rd. 

Buy us a “coffee” at https://ko-fi.com/elevatorsystems and support the production of the podcast!

Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1, 2 & 3

Resources:

• Living Systems Counselling and Training
• Elevator Systems at the Bowen Center Professional Lecture Series

Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. Like, subscribe, and comment.

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.ca

Key Topics:
#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen # #SystemsThinking #Polarization #Differences #HotTopics #Communication #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Therapy #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.

Welcome to Elevator Systems! To end Season 3, we are interviewing Dr. Monica McGoldrick about her book The Expanded Family Life Cycle, the importance of systems thinking, and some of her memories with Dr. Murray Bowen.

Monica McGoldrick, M.A., LCSW, Ph.D. (Honorary), is the Director of the Multicultural Family Institute in Highland Park, New Jersey and Professor of Clinical Psychiatry at the Robert Wood Johnson Medical School. Monica has written and spoken widely on topics such as culture, gender, the family life cycle, loss, and genograms. Three of her most notable books include: The Expanded Family Life Cycle, Ethnicity and Family Therapy, and Genograms: Assessment and Intervention.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• Viewing life stages not just as individual but as interconnected with the family life cycle.
• Family diagrams (genograms) as a tool to understand family patterns and history and the usefulness of contextualizing individual experiences.
• Practical application of Bowen theory in therapy, how understanding family systems can aid in addressing current issues by exploring family relationships and dynamics.

• Considering the perspectives of both ancestors and future descendants, growing a broader understanding of one's place within the family lineage and the impact of one's actions on future generations.

Recommended Resources:

• Monica McGoldrick website: https://multiculturalfamily.org/
• Monica McGoldrick and Betty Carter: The Expanded Family Life Cycle
• Louise Aronson: Elderhood
• Patrick Stinson: Family Diagram App
• Living Systems online workshops and counselling information: https://livingsystems.ca
• Living Systems Aging Conference
• Email [email protected] to purchase Aging conference recording - mention the podcast and receive a discount!
• Email [email protected] for podcast questions or ideas

Thanks for listening to Season 3! Look for Season 4 of Elevator Systems in early 2026. 

Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. Like, subscribe, and comment.

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.ca

Key Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #MonicaMcGoldrick #Family #SystemsThinking #FamilyLifeCycle #LifeCycle #StagesofLife #Genogram #FamilyDiagram #FamilyHistory #Ancestry #Lineage #History #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Therapy #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.

Welcome to Elevator Systems! For the last episode of our season on relationships across the lifespan, we will be looking at Bowen family systems theory and death. Priscilla Friesen joins hosts Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White to talk about her personal and professional perspective.

Priscilla Friesen is a family consultant who trained as a licensed clinical social worker. She was introduced to Bowen theory in 1976 and has spent years at the Bowen Center where her responsibilities have included: administrator of Biofeedback Programs, Director of the Postgraduate Training Programs, developing meetings, presenting and teaching. Priscilla has a special interest in biofeedback and neurofeedback and how physiological reactivity is regulated in relationships. Priscilla has also worked to make Dr. Bowen’s archival legacy available to the world, working with the Bowen family since his death in 1990 and serving on the board of directors of The Murray Bowen Archives Project today.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• The many relationships impacted by the death of a family member.
• Ways death is regulated within the family system.
• The variation in how families handle death provides valuable information about the family system.
• What an open system is and how it’s useful to a family around death.
• The adjustment of roles in the family after a death and the emergence of family leaders.
• Examples include: personal stories, estate planning and family discussions, the grief of Queen Victoria and her family life.

This episode is for anyone interested in thinking about death from a systems perspective and anyone who works professionally with families that are facing death, grief and loss. 

Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.

Recommended Resources:

• The Murray Bowen Archives Project 
• Dr. Murray Bowen: Family Therapy in Clinical Practice
• Dr. Jenny Brown: Growing Yourself Up
• Death and Chronic Illness in the Family, Ed. Peter Titelman & Sydney K. Reed
• Living Beyond Loss: Death in the Family, Ed. Froma Walsh & Monica McGoldrick
• Family Matters 
• The Relationships We Live In podcast: https://rss.com/podcasts/episode-1-the-relationships-we-live-in/

Thanks for listening to Season 3! A special episode to wrap up Season 3 will be released in the coming weeks! 

Look for Season 4 of Elevator Systems in early 2026. 

Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release. Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.ca

Key Topics:
#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Death #Dying #Grief #Loss #Mourning #Funeral #Goodbye #Communication #Estates #Plans #Aging #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Family #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProject

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk

Welcome to Elevator Systems! Selden Dunbar Illick joins Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White as they think through aging from a Bowen family systems perspective on today’s episode.

Selden Dunbar Illick has been studying Bowen family systems theory for over 40 years. Selden founded the Princeton Family Center for Education in 1987 and currently serves on the Board. She is particularly interested in the application of Bowen theory to family functioning in the present as it connects to the multigenerational past and to future generations, especially the concept of emotional cutoff between the generations and degrees of unresolved emotional attachment. Today, at the age of 85, Selden continues to be a consultant to those interested in applying a Bowen family systems theory perspective to their lives.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• Aging is a lifelong process that begins at birth.
• The usefulness of maintaining emotional connections across generations. 
• The idea of over and under-functioning and thoughtfully providing and receiving support.
• Emotional cutoff and differentiation as key concepts in intergenerational relationships.
• The importance of lifelong learning and curiosity.
• Examples include: personal and clinical examples of families and aging, historical and cultural examples, and the show “Call the Midwife” 

This episode is for anyone who is aging, has aging family members, or works with individual and families facing the challenges and opportunities of aging. 

Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.

Recommended Resources:

• The Murray Bowen Archives Project 
• Dr. Murray Bowen: Family Therapy in Clinical Practice
• Dr. Murray Bowen: A Systems View of the Aging Process (Family Systems Journal 13.1)
• Dr. Jenny Brown: Growing Yourself Up
• Monica McGoldrick & Betty Carter: The Family Life Cycle
• Death and Chronic Illness in the Family, Ed. Peter Titelman & Sydney K. Reed
• Dr. Bowen & Kathleen Yanks: The Basic Series #7 - Emotional Cutoff
• Living Systems Oct/25 conference Aging: Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?

New podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! 

Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.

Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.ca

Key Topics:
#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Family #Aging #Seniors #Elder #Elderly #BabyBoomers #EndofLife #NextGeneration #PasstheBaton #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProject

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.

Welcome to Elevator Systems! Today’s episode is about something that can happen at any stage of life: family rifts. Lisa Moss joins Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White to discuss family rifts and Bowen family systems theory.

Lisa Moss is a licensed clinical social worker with 15 years in private practice. Lisa completed the post graduate training program at the Center for Family Consultation in Evanston, Illinois, and joined the faculty in 2013. Lisa has studied family dynamics, marriage, sibling relationships, and human behavior from a Bowen theory perspective for nearly two decades. Before private practice, Lisa worked in hospitals and community agencies, gaining a wide view of how people and families function in different settings. She earned her MSW from Loyola University Chicago after completing her undergraduate studies at the University of Kansas, and has been a licensed clinical social worker since 1995.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• Bowen theory’s concept of “cutoff” as well as the use of family rifts, estrangement, and distance in relationships.
• Cutoff may relieve immediate tension and it has short and long-term consequences for the individual and family.
• Estrangement can lead to difficulties in other relationships, including the transfer of emotional intensity from one relationship to another.
• Understanding family dynamics through systems thinking can help individuals to manage themselves in challenging relationships.
• Examples include: TV shows “The Bear”, “Everybody Loves Raymond” “Gilmore Girls” and what drove the story line in every 1990s sitcom, as well as clinical examples. 

This episode is for professionals and non-professionals alike, especially those thinking through the cost and benefits of breaking away from challenging relationships. 

Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.

Recommended Resources:

• The Murray Bowen Archives Project 
• Dr. Murray Bowen: Family Therapy in Clinical Practice
• Dr. Jenny Brown: Growing Yourself Up
• Dr. Michael E. Kerr: Bowen Theory’s Secrets
• Catherine M. Rakow: Making Sense of Human Life
• Anne McKnight (Ed): Thinking Systems: Applying Bowen Theory in Clinical Practice 
• Anne McKnight, Family Matters: Cutoff in Family Relationships
• Anne McKnight: “Two Perspectives on Family Rifts: The Concepts of Estrangement and Cut-off”, Australian and New Zealand Journal of Family Therapy, 45(2)
• Kathleen Smith: When You’re Too Close to the Problem
• Kathleen Smith: Living Outside of Conflict
• Hasan Minhaj podcast with Gabor Maté
• Elevator Systems, S1 Ep5 Distance
• Elevator Systems, S2 Ep6 Emotional Cutoff

New podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! 

Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.

Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.ca

Key Topics:
#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Anxiety #FamilyRifts #Cutoff #NoContact #Distance #Avoidance #Conflict #Separation #ToxicPeople #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Family #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProject

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.

Welcome to Elevator Systems! For this episode of the podcast Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White had the privilege of speaking with, recently retired, Kathy Kerr about the way Bowen family systems theory is useful in retirement.

Kathleen Kerr is a clinical nurse specialist and started her private practice in 1975. She was on the faculty of the Bowen Center from 1978 to 2012 and is a founding Board member of the Bowen Theory Academy. Her interests and published articles have included topics such as: aging and the family, applying Bowen theory to organizations, different kinds of systems thinking, healthcare and Bowen theory in the emergency room, and mother-offspring relationships. For this work, Kathleen was given access to the data from the longitudinal research on chimpanzees begun by Jane Goodall.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• How retirement is a systems event rather than an individual one.
• Thinking through expectations and assumptions around retirement.
• What to consider in the transition of leadership at work and in the family.
• The role of differentiation of self as individuals and work systems prepare for a retirement.
• The usefulness of knowing family history and previous generations experience with retirement as well as societal influences at those times.
• Examples include: personal examples from work and the family, the television show “Succession”, and the idea of “passing the baton” 

This episode is for individuals, families, and those in the workplace experiencing retirement personally or in their system. 

Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.

Recommended Resources:

• The Murray Bowen Archives Project 
• Dr. Murray Bowen: Family Therapy in Clinical Practice
• Dr. Jenny Brown: Growing Yourself Up

New podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! 

Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.

Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.ca

Key Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Aging #Retirement #Retiring #Work #Leadership #NextGeneration #PasstheBaton #Succession #Anxiety#MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Family #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProject

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.

Welcome to Elevator Systems! Today Amie Post joins Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White to talk about grandparenting from a Bowen family systems theory lens. Amie is the keynote speaker at Living Systems’ conference, Aging: Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity on October 17th and 18th. Details below.

Amie Post, is a marriage and family therapist with extensive experience in leadership. She serves as the Executive Director of the Center for Family Systems Theory of Western New York and previously held the role of Executive Director at the Family Crisis Center of Baltimore County. A dedicated student of Bowen Theory since 2001, Amie is a faculty member and board director at the Bowen Center in Washington, DC. She is also a wife, mother, and grandmother.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• The basic invitation of growing yourself up and being thoughtful about how to participate in family relationships with intentionality.
• The significance of observing multi-generational patterns and how they influence family relationships. How generational anxiety affects current family dynamics.
• Recognizing automatic expectations of grandparenting roles, doing “differently” than previous generations, and the usefulness of the "beliefs paper" exercise.
• The role of grandparents in providing wisdom and support without overstepping boundaries.
• The importance of meaningful relationships across generations and the resource of the family.
• Examples include: the movies Minari and Moana, childcare, family vacations, the various ways grandparents show up, and “treats at grandma’s house” with a personal example.

This episode is not only for grandparents, but for adult children navigating parenting, grandparenting, and grandchildren, as well as clinicians working with families. 

Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.

Recommended Resources:

• The Murray Bowen Archives Project 
• Dr. Murray Bowen: Family Therapy in Clinical Practice
• Dr. Jenny Brown: Growing Yourself Up
• Roberta M. Gilbert, M.D.: Connecting with Our Children
• Victoria Harrison: The Belief Paper Assignment, Family Systems Forum, Fall 2022, Vol 24, No. 3
• Living Systems Conference: Aging - Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?

New podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! 

Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.

Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.ca

Living Systems Hybrid Conference: October 17–18, 2025

Conference theme: Aging—Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?

Learn more: https://livingsystems.ca/education/conferences/fall-2025-conference-on-aging/

Key Topics:
#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Family #Grandparenting #Grandparents #Grandchildren #Expectations Resources #Transitions #Goals #Generations #GenerationalPatterns #Anxiety #Aging #Parenting #Boundaries #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProject

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.

Welcome to Elevator Systems! This episode will explore the empty nest stage from a Bowen family systems theory perspective. Joining Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White today is John Bell.

John Bell is an ordained United Methodist pastor who became interested in Bowen theory after hearing Peter Steinke say, "Good leadership rises about the anxiety of the group."  He has spent the last 30 years putting these theoretical words to practice in congregational, family, and civic life. In addition to training and mentoring clergy, John works with non-profit leaders and organizations who have an interest in sustainable and adaptive practices. John and his wife Alison work and live near Chicago and have three grown children.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• The balance of dependency and independence in relationship, and the usefulness of parents working on maintaining a supportive yet independent relationship with adult children.
• How other family changes can influence functioning in the empty nest phase, such as divorce, remarriage, grandchildren, retirement and aging of parents.
• The transition to an empty nest can reveal the roles children played in the marriage and allows for a reevaluation of relationships.
• The importance of open communication and curiosity about each other's goals and aspirations.

• Examples include: analogy of a plate spinning routine, the family cellular plan, and variation among families navigating changes and independence.

This episode is useful for families going through the empty nest stage or professionals wanting to think more systemically about this time of life. 

Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.

Recommended Resources:

• The Murray Bowen Archives Project 
• Dr. Jenny Brown: Growing Yourself Up
• Monica McGoldrick & Betty Carter: The Family Life Cycle
• Kathleen Smith, “Where’s All Your Energy Going?”
• Eric Brenn Plate Spinning on Ed Sullivan Show
• Living Systems Conference: Aging - Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?

New podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! 

Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.

Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.ca

Living Systems Hybrid Conference: October 17–18, 2025

Conference theme: Aging—Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?

Learn more: https://livingsystems.ca/education/conferences/fall-2025-conference-on-aging/

Key Topics:
#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Family #Parenting #Parents #Children #Kids #Launching #LeavingHome #GrowingUp #EmptyNest #LifeStages #YoungAdult #Resources #Transitions #Goals #Aspirations #Communication #TherapyPodcast #Anxiety #MentalHealth #Relationships #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProject

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.