Welcome to Elevator Systems! For the last episode of our season on relationships across the lifespan, we will be looking at Bowen family systems theory and death. Priscilla Friesen joins hosts Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White to talk about her personal and professional perspective.

Priscilla Friesen is a family consultant who trained as a licensed clinical social worker. She was introduced to Bowen theory in 1976 and has spent years at the Bowen Center where her responsibilities have included: administrator of Biofeedback Programs, Director of the Postgraduate Training Programs, developing meetings, presenting and teaching. Priscilla has a special interest in biofeedback and neurofeedback and how physiological reactivity is regulated in relationships. Priscilla has also worked to make Dr. Bowen’s archival legacy available to the world, working with the Bowen family since his death in 1990 and serving on the board of directors of The Murray Bowen Archives Project today.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• The many relationships impacted by the death of a family member.
• Ways death is regulated within the family system.
• The variation in how families handle death provides valuable information about the family system.
• What an open system is and how it’s useful to a family around death.
• The adjustment of roles in the family after a death and the emergence of family leaders.
• Examples include: personal stories, estate planning and family discussions, the grief of Queen Victoria and her family life.

This episode is for anyone interested in thinking about death from a systems perspective and anyone who works professionally with families that are facing death, grief and loss. 

Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.

Recommended Resources:

• The Murray Bowen Archives Project 
• Dr. Murray Bowen: Family Therapy in Clinical Practice
• Dr. Jenny Brown: Growing Yourself Up
• Death and Chronic Illness in the Family, Ed. Peter Titelman & Sydney K. Reed
• Living Beyond Loss: Death in the Family, Ed. Froma Walsh & Monica McGoldrick
• Family Matters 
• The Relationships We Live In podcast: https://rss.com/podcasts/episode-1-the-relationships-we-live-in/

Thanks for listening to Season 3! A special episode to wrap up Season 3 will be released in the coming weeks! 

Look for Season 4 of Elevator Systems in early 2026. 

Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release. Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.ca

Key Topics:
#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Death #Dying #Grief #Loss #Mourning #Funeral #Goodbye #Communication #Estates #Plans #Aging #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Family #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProject

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk

Welcome to Elevator Systems! Selden Dunbar Illick joins Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White as they think through aging from a Bowen family systems perspective on today’s episode.

Selden Dunbar Illick has been studying Bowen family systems theory for over 40 years. Selden founded the Princeton Family Center for Education in 1987 and currently serves on the Board. She is particularly interested in the application of Bowen theory to family functioning in the present as it connects to the multigenerational past and to future generations, especially the concept of emotional cutoff between the generations and degrees of unresolved emotional attachment. Today, at the age of 85, Selden continues to be a consultant to those interested in applying a Bowen family systems theory perspective to their lives.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• Aging is a lifelong process that begins at birth.
• The usefulness of maintaining emotional connections across generations. 
• The idea of over and under-functioning and thoughtfully providing and receiving support.
• Emotional cutoff and differentiation as key concepts in intergenerational relationships.
• The importance of lifelong learning and curiosity.
• Examples include: personal and clinical examples of families and aging, historical and cultural examples, and the show “Call the Midwife” 

This episode is for anyone who is aging, has aging family members, or works with individual and families facing the challenges and opportunities of aging. 

Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.

Recommended Resources:

• The Murray Bowen Archives Project 
• Dr. Murray Bowen: Family Therapy in Clinical Practice
• Dr. Murray Bowen: A Systems View of the Aging Process (Family Systems Journal 13.1)
• Dr. Jenny Brown: Growing Yourself Up
• Monica McGoldrick & Betty Carter: The Family Life Cycle
• Death and Chronic Illness in the Family, Ed. Peter Titelman & Sydney K. Reed
• Dr. Bowen & Kathleen Yanks: The Basic Series #7 - Emotional Cutoff
• Living Systems Oct/25 conference Aging: Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?

New podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! 

Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.

Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.ca

Key Topics:
#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Family #Aging #Seniors #Elder #Elderly #BabyBoomers #EndofLife #NextGeneration #PasstheBaton #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProject

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.

Welcome to Elevator Systems! Today’s episode is about something that can happen at any stage of life: family rifts. Lisa Moss joins Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White to discuss family rifts and Bowen family systems theory.

Lisa Moss is a licensed clinical social worker with 15 years in private practice. Lisa completed the post graduate training program at the Center for Family Consultation in Evanston, Illinois, and joined the faculty in 2013. Lisa has studied family dynamics, marriage, sibling relationships, and human behavior from a Bowen theory perspective for nearly two decades. Before private practice, Lisa worked in hospitals and community agencies, gaining a wide view of how people and families function in different settings. She earned her MSW from Loyola University Chicago after completing her undergraduate studies at the University of Kansas, and has been a licensed clinical social worker since 1995.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• Bowen theory’s concept of “cutoff” as well as the use of family rifts, estrangement, and distance in relationships.
• Cutoff may relieve immediate tension and it has short and long-term consequences for the individual and family.
• Estrangement can lead to difficulties in other relationships, including the transfer of emotional intensity from one relationship to another.
• Understanding family dynamics through systems thinking can help individuals to manage themselves in challenging relationships.
• Examples include: TV shows “The Bear”, “Everybody Loves Raymond” “Gilmore Girls” and what drove the story line in every 1990s sitcom, as well as clinical examples. 

This episode is for professionals and non-professionals alike, especially those thinking through the cost and benefits of breaking away from challenging relationships. 

Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.

Recommended Resources:

• The Murray Bowen Archives Project 
• Dr. Murray Bowen: Family Therapy in Clinical Practice
• Dr. Jenny Brown: Growing Yourself Up
• Dr. Michael E. Kerr: Bowen Theory’s Secrets
• Catherine M. Rakow: Making Sense of Human Life
• Anne McKnight (Ed): Thinking Systems: Applying Bowen Theory in Clinical Practice 
• Anne McKnight, Family Matters: Cutoff in Family Relationships
• Anne McKnight: “Two Perspectives on Family Rifts: The Concepts of Estrangement and Cut-off”, Australian and New Zealand Journal of Family Therapy, 45(2)
• Kathleen Smith: When You’re Too Close to the Problem
• Kathleen Smith: Living Outside of Conflict
• Hasan Minhaj podcast with Gabor Maté
• Elevator Systems, S1 Ep5 Distance
• Elevator Systems, S2 Ep6 Emotional Cutoff

New podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! 

Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.

Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.ca

Key Topics:
#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Anxiety #FamilyRifts #Cutoff #NoContact #Distance #Avoidance #Conflict #Separation #ToxicPeople #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Family #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProject

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.

Welcome to Elevator Systems! For this episode of the podcast Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White had the privilege of speaking with, recently retired, Kathy Kerr about the way Bowen family systems theory is useful in retirement.

Kathleen Kerr is a clinical nurse specialist and started her private practice in 1975. She was on the faculty of the Bowen Center from 1978 to 2012 and is a founding Board member of the Bowen Theory Academy. Her interests and published articles have included topics such as: aging and the family, applying Bowen theory to organizations, different kinds of systems thinking, healthcare and Bowen theory in the emergency room, and mother-offspring relationships. For this work, Kathleen was given access to the data from the longitudinal research on chimpanzees begun by Jane Goodall.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• How retirement is a systems event rather than an individual one.
• Thinking through expectations and assumptions around retirement.
• What to consider in the transition of leadership at work and in the family.
• The role of differentiation of self as individuals and work systems prepare for a retirement.
• The usefulness of knowing family history and previous generations experience with retirement as well as societal influences at those times.
• Examples include: personal examples from work and the family, the television show “Succession”, and the idea of “passing the baton” 

This episode is for individuals, families, and those in the workplace experiencing retirement personally or in their system. 

Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.

Recommended Resources:

• The Murray Bowen Archives Project 
• Dr. Murray Bowen: Family Therapy in Clinical Practice
• Dr. Jenny Brown: Growing Yourself Up

New podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! 

Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.

Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.ca

Key Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Aging #Retirement #Retiring #Work #Leadership #NextGeneration #PasstheBaton #Succession #Anxiety#MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #Family #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProject

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.

Welcome to Elevator Systems! Today Amie Post joins Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White to talk about grandparenting from a Bowen family systems theory lens. Amie is the keynote speaker at Living Systems’ conference, Aging: Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity on October 17th and 18th. Details below.

Amie Post, is a marriage and family therapist with extensive experience in leadership. She serves as the Executive Director of the Center for Family Systems Theory of Western New York and previously held the role of Executive Director at the Family Crisis Center of Baltimore County. A dedicated student of Bowen Theory since 2001, Amie is a faculty member and board director at the Bowen Center in Washington, DC. She is also a wife, mother, and grandmother.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• The basic invitation of growing yourself up and being thoughtful about how to participate in family relationships with intentionality.
• The significance of observing multi-generational patterns and how they influence family relationships. How generational anxiety affects current family dynamics.
• Recognizing automatic expectations of grandparenting roles, doing “differently” than previous generations, and the usefulness of the "beliefs paper" exercise.
• The role of grandparents in providing wisdom and support without overstepping boundaries.
• The importance of meaningful relationships across generations and the resource of the family.
• Examples include: the movies Minari and Moana, childcare, family vacations, the various ways grandparents show up, and “treats at grandma’s house” with a personal example.

This episode is not only for grandparents, but for adult children navigating parenting, grandparenting, and grandchildren, as well as clinicians working with families. 

Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.

Recommended Resources:

• The Murray Bowen Archives Project 
• Dr. Murray Bowen: Family Therapy in Clinical Practice
• Dr. Jenny Brown: Growing Yourself Up
• Roberta M. Gilbert, M.D.: Connecting with Our Children
• Victoria Harrison: The Belief Paper Assignment, Family Systems Forum, Fall 2022, Vol 24, No. 3
• Living Systems Conference: Aging - Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?

New podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! 

Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.

Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.ca

Living Systems Hybrid Conference: October 17–18, 2025

Conference theme: Aging—Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?

Learn more: https://livingsystems.ca/education/conferences/fall-2025-conference-on-aging/

Key Topics:
#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Family #Grandparenting #Grandparents #Grandchildren #Expectations Resources #Transitions #Goals #Generations #GenerationalPatterns #Anxiety #Aging #Parenting #Boundaries #MentalHealth #Relationships #TherapyPodcast #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProject

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.

Welcome to Elevator Systems! This episode will explore the empty nest stage from a Bowen family systems theory perspective. Joining Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White today is John Bell.

John Bell is an ordained United Methodist pastor who became interested in Bowen theory after hearing Peter Steinke say, "Good leadership rises about the anxiety of the group."  He has spent the last 30 years putting these theoretical words to practice in congregational, family, and civic life. In addition to training and mentoring clergy, John works with non-profit leaders and organizations who have an interest in sustainable and adaptive practices. John and his wife Alison work and live near Chicago and have three grown children.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• The balance of dependency and independence in relationship, and the usefulness of parents working on maintaining a supportive yet independent relationship with adult children.
• How other family changes can influence functioning in the empty nest phase, such as divorce, remarriage, grandchildren, retirement and aging of parents.
• The transition to an empty nest can reveal the roles children played in the marriage and allows for a reevaluation of relationships.
• The importance of open communication and curiosity about each other's goals and aspirations.

• Examples include: analogy of a plate spinning routine, the family cellular plan, and variation among families navigating changes and independence.

This episode is useful for families going through the empty nest stage or professionals wanting to think more systemically about this time of life. 

Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.

Recommended Resources:

• The Murray Bowen Archives Project 
• Dr. Jenny Brown: Growing Yourself Up
• Monica McGoldrick & Betty Carter: The Family Life Cycle
• Kathleen Smith, “Where’s All Your Energy Going?”
• Eric Brenn Plate Spinning on Ed Sullivan Show
• Living Systems Conference: Aging - Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?

New podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! 

Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.

Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.ca

Living Systems Hybrid Conference: October 17–18, 2025

Conference theme: Aging—Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?

Learn more: https://livingsystems.ca/education/conferences/fall-2025-conference-on-aging/

Key Topics:
#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Family #Parenting #Parents #Children #Kids #Launching #LeavingHome #GrowingUp #EmptyNest #LifeStages #YoungAdult #Resources #Transitions #Goals #Aspirations #Communication #TherapyPodcast #Anxiety #MentalHealth #Relationships #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProject

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.

Welcome to Elevator Systems! Today’s episode looks at how Bowen family systems theory is useful in thinking about the launching stage in a family. Erik Thompson joins hosts Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White for a lively and informative discussion.

Erik Thompson is a licensed leadership psychologist with three decades of experience helping families. He founded Thompson Leadership Development and is the Executive Director of the Vermont Center for Family Studies. He created a 6 episode podcast, “To Honor and Cherish”, designed to support couples in achieving a sparky and sustainable relationship. He also has an interview podcast called "LeaderSight" which captures the wisdom of some of Erik’s favorite founders and executives. Erik lives in Vermont with his wife and together they have launched four daughters. 

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• The importance of preparing for the launching phase of children throughout life and thinking through parenting mindsets early on
• Explore the concept of over-functioning and under-functioning in relationships and how over-helping may not be helpful
• The influence of culture on the specifics of the launching process and the variation that exists around norms and expectations
• Keeping in mind the balance between connection and independence when children leave home
• Examples include: personal stories of our families’ launches, summer camp, animal behaviour, and cultural variation

This episode is useful for parents at any stage, as well as professionals looking to support a family’s launching journey. 

Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.

Recommended Resources:

• The Murray Bowen Archives Project 
• Dr. Jenny Brown: Growing Yourself Up
• Monica McGoldrick & Betty Carter: The Family Life Cycle
• Dr. Daniel Papero: Developing A Systems Model for Family Assessment 
• Vermont Center for Family Studies 
• To Honor & Cherish: A Marriage Podcast
• LeaderSight Podcast

New podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! 

Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.

Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.ca

Living Systems Hybrid Conference: October 17–18, 2025

Conference theme: Aging—Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?

Learn more: https://livingsystems.ca/education/conferences/fall-2025-conference-on-aging/

Key Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Family #Parenting #Parents #Children #Kids #Launching #LeavingHome #GrowingUp #EmptyNest #LifeStages #YoungAdult #Resources #Helpfulness #TherapyPodcast #Anxiety #MentalHealth #Relationships #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProject

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.

Welcome to Elevator Systems! This episode explores all of the complexities of when families combine in stepfamily relationships and how Bowen family systems theory can be a resource. Kathleen Cotter Cauley is back on the elevator, sharing her thoughts and experiences with Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White.

Kathleen Cotter Cauley is a licensed marriage and family therapist and has a private practice in both Virginia and Florida. She’s a faculty member of the Bowen Center and was involved in founding the Florida Family Research Network. Her thinking on triangles has been published in the book “Triangles: Bowen Family Systems Perspectives” by Peter Titelman. Kathleen has been married for almost 40 years, is a stepmom, a stepdaughter, and a grandma. 

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• Stepfamilies provide a unique opportunity to apply Bowen family systems theory to the complex dynamics
• Managing anxiety and working on self-differentiation are important in navigating stepfamily challenges
• Understanding the roles and expectations for each member of a stepfamily can help in managing transition and integration processes
• The importance of curiosity about each family member's perspective and experience
• The useful framework of the family diagram and family history 
• Examples include: personal experience and Hollywood examples including the movie “Stepmom”, the classic “wicked stepmother", and “The Brady Bunch”

For anyone who is connected to a blended family. This episode offers a unique perspective and framework to think through and manage the complex dynamics of stepfamily life. 

Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.

Recommended Resources:

• The Murray Bowen Archives Project 
• Monica McGoldrick & Betty Carter: The Family Life Cycle
• Roberta Gilbert, “On Stepparenting” Family Systems Forum, Winter 2009, Vol 10 No4

• Dr. Daniel Papero: Developing A Systems Model for Family Assessment
• Kathleen Smith: The Cycle of Overfunctioning and Distance
• Family Matters: Navigating the Blended Family Maze
• Peter Titelman, Ed: Triangles: Bowen Family Systems Theory Perspectives

New podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! 

Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.

Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.ca

Living Systems Hybrid Conference: October 17–18, 2025

Conference theme: Aging—Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?

Learn more: https://livingsystems.ca/education/conferences/fall-2025-conference-on-aging/

Key Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Family #Marriage #Remarriage #Divorce #Death #Widow #BlendedFamily #Stepfamily #Stepparent #Stepchild #FamilyChallenges #Challenges #Complexity #StepfamilyLife #TherapyPodcast #Anxiety #MentalHealth #Relationships #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProject

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.

Welcome to Elevator Systems! Today’s episode discusses divorce from a Bowen family systems theory perspective. Dr. Carrie Collier is back thinking alongside hosts Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White.

Dr. Carrie Collier is a researcher, lecturer and family therapist specializing in Bowen family systems theory. She earned her PhD in Counsellor Education and has over 25 years of study and practice as a Licensed Professional Counsellor. She is on the faculty of The Bowen Center where she serves on the Board of Directors and was Director for two years. She published and validated a Family Unit Functioning Questionnaire used by therapists and researchers to gather information about families. Her most recent research on the language of nature in Murray Bowen's archival papers can be found in The Australian and New Zealand Journal of Family Therapy.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• The usefulness of knowing family history and family patterns of functioning in marriage and divorce and how divorce can intensify patterns.

• Understanding one's role in the family and how divorce can be an opportunity for personal growth and redefining relationships within the family system.
• How the intensity of emotional fusion in a marriage can mirror the intensity of separation during divorce.
• The resource of a coach or therapist for individuals to think through their functioning in the family.
• Family leaders who maintain open communication, clear thinking and connections with both parties in a divorce can positively influence the broader family system.
  

This episode is recommended for people and professionals who are navigating divorce.

Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.

Recommended Resources:

• The Murray Bowen Archives Project 
• Dr. Murray Bowen: Family Therapy in Clinical Practice
• Monica McGoldrick & Betty Carter: The Family Life Cycle
• Roberta Gilbert: Extraordinary Relationships
• Edward Beal: “Child-Focused Divorce” in Clinical Applications of Bowen Family Systems Theory (Ed. Peter Titelman)
• Family Matters: Divorce and Adult Children
• Dr. Carrie Collier: The Language of Nature in Murray Bowen’s Writings

New podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! 

Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.

Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.ca

Living Systems Hybrid Conference: October 17–18, 2025

Conference theme: Aging—Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?

Learn more: https://livingsystems.ca/education/conferences/fall-2025-conference-on-aging/

Key Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Family #Marriage #Remarriage #Divorce #BlendedFamily #Stepfamily #Partner #Conflict #Mediation #Separation #FamilyChallenges #Challenges #Complexity #TherapyPodcast #Anxiety #Intensity #Patterns #MentalHealth #Relationships #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProject

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk

Welcome to Elevator Systems! In this episode we are looking at a Bowen family systems theory perspective on relationships with kids with challenges. Joining hosts Dixie Vandersluys and Katie White is fellow Living Systems colleague Devana Weiss who brings personal and professional experience to this topic.

Devana Weiss is a licensed counsellor in private practise, a clinical supervisor, and a faculty member with Living Systems. She has been studying and practicing Bowen family systems theory for almost 20 years. She is married and a mother to three children, one of whom has developmental disabilities. She has lived experience navigating the medical and school systems and enjoys assisting parents and caregivers who face similar challenges. 

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• The impact that worry has on a child with challenges and their relationships
• The importance of recognizing what is within one’s control as a parent and responding with steadiness, clear thinking and guiding principles during tough times
• The pattern of over and under-functioning and how Bowen theory is useful for assessing facts and needs and what kind of help is helpful
• The role of siblings and the whole family system in managing challenge
• Examples include: an analogy from a garden, the movie CODA, dinner time struggles, and how parents and professionals can manage their own anxiety

For any professional, family member, or friend in relationship with a child with a challenge, this episode offers a unique perspective on what it means to be a resource. 

Terms you don’t understand? We have episodes on all 8 concepts of Bowen theory and other ideas in Elevator Systems Seasons 1 & 2.

Recommended Resources:

• The Murray Bowen Archives Project 

• Catherine M. Rakow: Making Sense of Human Life
• Dr. Michael E. Kerr: Bowen Theory’s Secrets (epilogue chapter)
• Parent Hope Project specific episodes:

• Being a Lighthouse
• How the Worry Cycle Plays Out in Schools
  Special Needs Children

• Co-Regulation or Self-Regulation in Parenting
  

New podcast episodes released every Tuesday this season—stay tuned as we explore relationships across the lifespan! 

Subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts so you don’t miss a weekly release.

Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and comment.

Living Systems Counselling and Training provides educational material for those interested in learning more about Bowen family systems theory: https://livingsystems.ca

Living Systems Hybrid Conference: October 17–18, 2025

Conference theme: Aging—Individual Challenge or Family Opportunity?

Learn more: https://livingsystems.ca/education/conferences/fall-2025-conference-on-aging/

Key Topics:#BowenFamilySystems #LivingSystems #MurrayBowen #Therapy #SystemsThinking #Family #Parenting #Parents #Children #Kids #KidswithChallenges #SpecialNeeds #Disability #Help #Inclusion #Challenges #Resources #Helpfulness #Worry #CODAmovie #TherapyPodcast #Neurotypical #Neurodivergent #Anxiety #MentalHealth #Relationships #DifferentiationOfSelf #Differentiation #BowenTheory #ElevatorSystems #FamilySystemsTheory #ElevatorSystemsPodcast #MurrayBowenArchives #TMBAP #TheMurrayBowenArchivesProject

DISCLAIMER: This podcast is general information about Bowen family systems theory and is not considered the practice of counselling or therapy.  The information presented are the views of the people who say them. Any information used from this podcast is used at your own risk.