To solve climate change, we need to do more than cut emissions. Almost all optimistic climate forecasts rely either on negative emissions or finding a way to mask the effects of emissions. In other words, carbon capture or some form of geoengineering. But of course, these are controversial, risky solutions. And the same can be said for other modern conservation projects, such as electrifying a river to keep out Asian Carp, or using gene-editing to combat an invasive species. These initiatives represent a new kind of environmentalism, which focuses less on reversing past human action and more on protecting the planet through more action. Today’s episode discusses this new approach with Elizabeth Kolbert.

Elizabeth is a Pulitzer Prize-winning writer at The New Yorker, as well as the author of several books, the most recent of which is Under a White Sky: The Nature of the Future, released this past February.