One response to stepped-up surveillance is stepped-up effort to hide from it — more laws regulating what people and governments are allowed to record, and more funds devoted to encryption and other privacy-protecting resources. But author and scientist David Brin says while this approach reflects the right instincts, it is insufficient. Especially as technology advances, there will be no hiding from surveillance. What we should instead fight for is transparency: the watchers must feel just as exposed as the watched.

Dr. Brin anticipated this debate with his 1998 book, “The Transparent Society,” which he joined me to discuss. We also talked about what privacy policy means when applied to the government versus the increasingly powerful tech titans, the future of AI, and lessons from science fiction. David Brin holds a PhD in astrophysics, and besides writing “The Transparent Society” is also the prize-winning author of several science fiction novels. His blog can be found here, and essays and speeches touched upon in this episode here, here, and here.

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