Lean Out is back from our annual summer hiatus — and we have a special episode for you today. Many of you know that Tara wrote “The Trust Spiral,” the 2024 Massey Essay on the state of the media, a partnership between Massey College at the University of Toronto and the Literary Review of Canada. Before Lean Out went on summer break, Massey College hosted a public discussion about this essay, and Tara was lucky enough to be interviewed by someone she greatly admires.

Rudyard Griffiths is co-founder and chair of the Munk Debates. He’s also a senior fellow at the Munk School of Global Affairs and Public Policy, and the executive director of The Hub.

Special thanks for today’s episode go to Emily Mockler and Jonathan Rose and everyone at Massey College, to Kyle Wyatt and the team at the Literary Review of Canada, and of course to Rudyard Griffiths.

You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com