For episode 256, we start off the year in podcasts with a conversation between Sharon and first-time guest Norma Ryuko Kawelokū Wong Roshi.

Norma is a thought partner, a strategist, and a teacher. She is the abbot of Anko-in, an independent branch temple of Daihonzan Chozen-ji and serves practice communities in Hawai‘i, across the continental U.S., and in Toronto, Canada. She is an 86th-generation Zen Master, having trained at Chozen-ji for over 40 years. Norma has decades of experience in organizing, policy, strategy, and politics in Hawaiʻi, particularly in the area of Native Hawaiian issues, serving in the Hawaiʻi State Legislature and beyond. In the Fall of 2024, she released the book, “When No Things Work,” telling stories, weaving poetry, and offering wisdom at the intersections of strategy, politics, and spiritual activism.

In this conversation, Norma and Sharon speak about:

• How Norma became an activist
• Taking the long multi-generational view
• How to face discord by seeing the whole
• When Norms found spiritual teachings
• The inspiration for writing her book
• How Norma approaches faith
• Collective versus individual work
• Sharon getting humid in Maui
• Opening to joy and goodness
• Methods to interrupt habits
• The rebuild of the Lahaina fires on Maui

The episode closes with Norma leading a resonant breathing practice. You can learn more about Norma’s work right here.

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