What does joy look like in the midst of pain and grief? K.J. Ramsey's memoir, The Place Between Our Pains, was written while she was fighting for her life - and in this conversation, she talks about what that actually means. We get into how dependence on others opens us to love in ways independence never could, why grief is a gate into aliveness rather than a place to get stuck, and what it looked like to launch a book about joy while facing a tumor diagnosis and an IV drip on launch day. This is a conversation about the kind of joy that doesn't require a tidy resolution and why that might be the kind we're searching for.

K.J. Ramsey is an increasingly feral mystic who is utterly devoted to the joy of being alive. She is a body-centered licensed professional counselor specialized in trauma recovery and an acclaimed author of prose and poetry, including The Book of Common Courage, The Lord Is My Courage, and This Too Shall Last, as well as the bestselling essay Substack Embodied. KJ advocates for fellow autoimmune patients and lives in Colorado with her husband Ryan, a hospice chaplain, and their two velcro dogs.

K.J.'s Book:

The Place Between Our Pains

K.J.'s Recommendation:

Project Hail Mary

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