Heidi and Ellen talk to Kim and Barbara. Kim is in school for counseling and, at the same time, is feeling very drawn to full-time motherhood. She wonders if the time is right to take that big step. Barbara too is at a crossroads. For the past 23 years, she has been a musician, a career that she never loved, and has recently decided to leave that behind. She is having a hard time finding something she is drawn to and is becoming convinced that she won’t ever find something that resonates. Ellen and Heidi also talk about The Morning Show (apple tv+); Succession (HBO); the Tom Hanks movie- Finch (apple tv+); and a book Ellen recently read called Sorrow and Bliss by Meg Mason.