Jo and Rick are joined by Jo Herbert-James to discuss the themes in Jo Swinney’s Lent book, “The Whole Easter Story: why the cross is good news for all creation.” What does our relationship with God have to do with how we live on this earth? How is the death and resurrection of Christ relevant to the current crises of biodiversity collapse and climate change? And are us humans really all that matters to God or just part of the picture?