This summer on her podcast, Bari Weiss described Tara's guest today as one of the best writers in America. We think she’s right.

During the month of December, here at Lean Out, we're speaking with independent journalists that we admire. And we're particularly pleased to bring you today’s conversation, with a Substack writer who’s had a big impact on Tara's thinking.

Freddie deBoer is an independent journalist in Brooklyn, New York. He’s the author of The Cult of Smart: How Our Broken Education System Perpetuates Social Injustice, and he writes an eponymous newsletter at Substack. (This was recorded on December 6, before the latest revelations on The Twitter Files from Bari Weiss.)

You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com