In this episode of The China Desk, host Steve Yates speaks with Tom Switzer, former senior fellow at the Center for Independent Studies and veteran journalist, about Australia’s evolving relationship with China and the United States. Switzer explains how Australia shifted from optimism about China’s integration into the liberal world order to a posture of strategic realism.

The discussion explores:

- How Australia’s view of the U.S.–China rivalry has changed since the 1990s

- The political and public response to China’s military and economic rise

- The fate of the AUKUS defense pact under shifting global power dynamics

- What “foreign policy realism” means in an era of great-power competition

This candid conversation breaks down how democracies like Australia balance prosperity with security — and what that means for U.S. allies across the Indo-Pacific.

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