China Desk

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China Desk episodes

May 19 Ep. 102 - Trump-Xi Summit, AI Competition & U.S.-China Strategy w/Andrew Harding
What should the United States realistically expect from high-level diplomacy with China — and where are the real risks in the relationship?
In this episode of The China Desk, host Steve Yates is joined by Andrew Harding, Policy Analyst for National Security and Indo-Pacific Affairs at The Heritage Foundation, for a detailed breakdown of President Trump’s recent summit with Xi Jinping and the broader future of U.S.-China relations.
Harding explains how the Heritage Foundation developed a framework for evaluating the summit — identifying what would constitute favorable outcomes for the United States, what risks to avoid, and how to think strategically about long-term competition with China.
The discussion explores how the summit ultimately functioned less as a transformational moment and more as a “maintenance check” on an increasingly competitive relationship between Washington and Beijing.
Major topics include:
• Expectations surrounding the Trump–Xi summit
• Favorable vs unfavorable outcomes for U.S. policy
• Rare earths, export controls, and AI competition
• Why advanced semiconductor restrictions matter
• China’s role in fentanyl trafficking and leverage
• Taiwan and concerns over shifting U.S. policy language
• Agricultural trade and strategic economic competition
• China’s support for Iran and geopolitical implications
• Human rights concerns, including Jimmy Lai and religious persecution
• Why the U.S.–China relationship remains structurally competitive
• The future of AI rivalry between Washington and Beijing
• Strategic dependencies and supply chain vulnerabilities
The episode also dives into Harding’s earlier work on the Pacific Islands and the Compacts of Free Association (COFA), highlighting why the region has become increasingly important in the context of U.S.-China competition.
Additional topics include:
• Chinese influence operations in the Pacific Islands
• Why Palau, Micronesia, and the Marshall Islands matter strategically
• Heritage Foundation’s role in supporting COFA renewal efforts
• The “Pacific Pivot” strategy for long-term U.S. engagement
A major takeaway from the conversation is that future U.S.-China engagement should focus on protecting American strategic advantages — especially in AI, advanced technology, and national security — while avoiding concessions that weaken U.S. leverage.
The episode closes with a broader discussion on what to watch for ahead of a possible future Xi visit to the United States and why export controls and AI competition may become the defining issue of the next phase of U.S.-China relations.
00:00 — Intro + Andrew Harding joins
02:08 — From Russia to China policy work
06:21 — Pacific Islands strategy and COFA agreements
10:14 — Heritage’s “Pacific Pivot” strategy
11:16 — Expectations for the Trump–Xi summit
13:53 — Favorable outcomes for the U.S.
16:19 — Unfavorable outcomes and red lines
19:09 — Did the summit accomplish anything?
22:06 — Engagement vs strategic competition
27:07 — Preparing for a future Xi visit to the U.S.
32:19 — What to watch next: AI and export controls
35:23 — Final thoughts + closing
Watch Full-Length Interviews: https://www.youtube.com/@ChinaDeskFNW
37 min
May 12 Ep. 101 - CCP Propaganda, China’s Future & the Taiwan Question w/Terence Shen
What happens when someone raised inside China’s education system begins questioning everything they were taught?
In this episode of The China Desk, host Steve Yates sits down with independent China analyst and journalist Terence Shen for a wide-ranging discussion on CCP propaganda, Chinese political culture, Taiwan, and the future trajectory of the People’s Republic of China.
Born and raised in Beijing, Shen describes how studying abroad in Canada first exposed him to historical narratives and political realities that sharply contradicted what he learned in Chinese schools. That experience ultimately transformed him from a former pro-regime voice into one of the most prominent Mandarin-language critics of the Chinese Communist Party online.
The conversation traces Shen’s journey from Beijing to Hong Kong and eventually Toronto, where repeated censorship and account bans pushed him to launch a YouTube platform that now reaches more than one million subscribers worldwide — including audiences inside China using VPNs to bypass censorship.
A major theme of the episode is the distinction between Xi Jinping as an individual leader and the deeper structural realities of the CCP system itself.
The discussion covers:
• Why many Chinese citizens still seek uncensored information
• How censorship shapes public understanding inside China
• Xi Jinping vs the broader CCP system
• The long-term effects of authoritarian political culture
• Why Shen believes modern China functions more like an empire than a nation-state
• The historical roots of Chinese centralization and control
• Why Taiwan and Hong Kong are central to CCP legitimacy
• China’s demographic decline and economic vulnerabilities
• The “lying flat” movement among younger Chinese citizens
• Why youth hopelessness threatens the CCP’s economic model
• China’s dependence on foreign capital, technology, and supply chains
• Structural weaknesses in China’s military and innovation system
The episode also explores the CCP’s narrative of “national rejuvenation” and how the regime ties its legitimacy to restoring China’s historical greatness — even as internal pressures continue to mount.
On Taiwan, Shen explains why many Taiwanese audiences increasingly worry less about direct invasion and more about internal political influence operations, propaganda, and efforts to weaken Taiwan from within.
The takeaway is clear: understanding modern China requires looking beyond headlines and individual leaders to the deeper political, historical, and cultural systems driving the CCP’s behavior.
00:00 — Intro + Terence Shen joins
01:21 — Growing up in Beijing under CCP education
04:15 — Hong Kong journalism and censorship
07:13 — Leaving China and building a YouTube platform
08:50 — Chinese audiences seeking uncensored information
11:09 — Xi Jinping vs the CCP system
16:14 — CCP propaganda and political culture
20:08 — China as an empire vs nation-state
25:42 — The “lying flat” movement explained
30:03 — China’s economic and military vulnerabilities
34:41 — “National rejuvenation” and CCP legitimacy
35:18 — Taiwan, political warfare, and internal influence
39:08 — Pushback from pro-CCP audiences
40:50 — Where to follow Terence Shen + closing
Watch Full-Length Interviews: https://www.youtube.com/@ChinaDeskFNW
42 min
May 05 Ep. 100 - 100 Episodes In: Steve Yates on China, Strategy & What Comes Next w/Andrew Langer
After 100 episodes, what has the China Desk revealed about the Chinese Communist Party, U.S. strategy, and the future of global competition?
In this special milestone edition of The China Desk, the roles are reversed. Host Steve Yates becomes the guest, while Andrew Langer, host of the Lunch Hour Podcast, steps in to lead the conversation — reflecting on the biggest lessons, themes, and takeaways from the first 100 episodes.
Since launching in 2023, China Desk has featured conversations with policymakers, analysts, and subject matter experts across the spectrum of U.S.-China relations. In this episode, Yates steps back to examine what those discussions reveal about where the relationship stands today — and where it is headed.
A major theme is the idea of reciprocity — a principle that has shaped many China Desk conversations. Yates explains why the U.S. should rethink policies that grant China access and advantages not reciprocated in return, and how this concept is beginning to influence broader trade and geopolitical thinking.
The discussion also covers:
• What Steve Yates has learned from 100 episodes of China Desk
• Why listening — not talking — is key to meaningful policy conversations
• The origins and impact of the U.S. “engagement” strategy with China
• Why the “China will become like us” assumption failed
• How CCP power structures shape behavior at home and abroad
• The concept of reciprocity in trade, policy, and diplomacy
• How China’s system differs fundamentally from Western governance
• The evolving U.S.–China strategic and economic relationship
• The role of China in global conflicts, including Iran and Ukraine
• The complex relationship between China, Russia, and authoritarian regimes
• Why authoritarian systems can endure despite internal weaknesses
• How economic growth reinforced CCP control over the population
The conversation also explores the human dimension of China policy — including how decades of political control, economic transformation, and social upheaval have shaped the Chinese population’s relationship with the state.
Looking forward, Yates outlines three core priorities for U.S. policy:
• Rebalancing the economic relationship with China
• Reinforcing deterrence and demonstrating American strength
• Strengthening and realigning global alliances
The episode closes on a more personal note, as Yates reflects on family, loss, and the importance of stepping away from policy work to reconnect with what matters most.
After 100 episodes, one message is clear: understanding China requires not just analysis — but listening, perspective, and a willingness to challenge long-held assumptions.
00:00 — Intro + 100th episode special format
00:08 — Andrew Langer guest hosts the China Desk
00:35 — Celebrating 100 episodes and show impact
00:57 — Steve Yates introduction and background
02:28 — What Steve Yates has learned from 100 episodes
03:15 — Why listening matters more than talking
04:02 — Building trust with guests and audience
06:11 — Has anything changed his perspective?
07:08 — Bipartisan conversations and policy framing
07:58 — Where U.S.–China relations stand today
08:16 — The concept of reciprocity explained
10:04 — Why engagement with China failed
11:03 — The “fatal conceit” of Western assumptions
13:53 — China–Russia relationship and strategic alignment
15:32 — Lessons from the Cold War and Soviet Union
16:48 — CCP control over Chinese society
18:02 — Information control and political power
19:02 — Why authoritarian systems persist
19:56 — Historical trauma and CCP legitimacy
21:02 — Economic growth vs political control
22:10 — Three priorities for U.S. policy moving forward
22:32 — Rebalancing the economic relationship
23:57 — Reinforcing deterrence and American strength
24:39 — Rethinking alliances and global priorities
25:44 — Outside interests: family, outdoors, and faith
27:33 — Where to find the China Desk podcast
28:24 — Closing
Watch Full-Length Interviews: https://www.youtube.com/@ChinaDeskFNW
29 min
April 28 Ep. 99 - Is China a Modern Invention? History, Myth & Power w/Bill Hayton
Is “China” as we understand it today really a continuous civilization — or a modern political construction?
In this episode of The China Desk, host Steve Yates sits down with Bill Hayton, journalist and author of The Invention of China, to unpack one of the most provocative ideas in China studies: that many core concepts of modern China — including its identity, history, and territorial claims — are far more recent than commonly believed.
Drawing on his research, Hayton explains how ideas like Chinese nationalism, sovereignty, and even the concept of “China” itself were shaped in the late 19th and early 20th centuries — often influenced by foreign thinkers, political pressures, and the collapse of the imperial system.
A major focus of the conversation is how these constructed narratives continue to shape modern Chinese policy, propaganda, and global strategy.
The discussion covers:
• Why the term “China” was not historically used by Chinese rulers
• How modern Chinese identity emerged in the late imperial and early republican periods
• The origins of the “5,000 years of history” narrative
• How nationalism was constructed to unify diverse populations
• The invention and political use of Han ethnic identity
• Why historical narratives are used to legitimize CCP authority
• The concept of “national humiliation” and its political function
• How myths about history influence modern Chinese foreign policy
• The South China Sea and the origins of China’s maritime claims
• Why many widely accepted historical claims lack solid evidence
• Taiwan’s complex historical relationship with mainland China
• Why Taiwan has only been governed alongside China for brief periods
• How WWII decisions shaped modern territorial claims
• Xi Jinping’s consolidation of power and rise of hardline nationalism
• The role of ideology in shaping CCP domestic and foreign policy
• Reciprocity and how the U.S. should approach China strategically
Hayton also explains how these narratives are actively reinforced today — from education campaigns to political messaging — to create cohesion, justify policy, and shape how both Chinese citizens and the outside world understand China.
The conversation highlights a critical takeaway: without questioning these foundational assumptions, policymakers risk misunderstanding China’s intentions, overestimating historical inevitabilities, and limiting strategic flexibility.
00:00 — Intro + Bill Hayton joins the China Desk
00:33 — Background and journalism career
05:04 — How The Invention of China came together
06:06 — South China Sea research and historical gaps
07:09 — Questioning accepted historical narratives
08:20 — The invention of “China” as a concept
10:59 — Why “China” wasn’t historically a unified nation
12:16 — Dynasties vs modern nation-state thinking
14:01 — Foreign influence on Chinese nationalism
16:23 — The “5,000 years of history” narrative explained
17:18 — Race, identity, and the Yellow Emperor myth
19:25 — National humiliation as a unifying tool
21:28 — Why historical narratives bind populations
24:19 — The invention of Han ethnicity
26:39 — Political motivations behind ethnic identity
28:55 — Reception and backlash to the book
32:34 — Taiwan: history vs modern claims
34:17 — Why Taiwan wasn’t central to China historically
36:37 — WWII and shifting territorial narratives
37:50 — Modern CCP narratives on Taiwan
39:34 — Xi Jinping and rising nationalism
41:17 — Ideology, control, and state power
42:10 — Reciprocity and U.S.–China strategy
45:43 — Final thoughts + where to follow Bill

Watch Full-Length Interviews: https://www.youtube.com/@ChinaDeskFNW
48 min
April 21 Ep. 98 - Guam, Taiwan & China’s Pacific Strategy: What the U.S. Is Missing w/Cleo Paskal
China’s strategy in the Pacific is not just military — it’s political, economic, and deeply embedded in places most Americans rarely think about.
In this follow-up episode of The China Desk, host Steve Yates welcomes back Cleo Paskal, Senior Fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, to build on their earlier conversation and go deeper into what a real Pacific conflict could look like — and where the United States is most vulnerable.
Paskal explains why any Chinese move on Taiwan would require neutralizing Guam and other U.S. territories in the Pacific, not necessarily through direct military strikes, but through political warfare, infrastructure disruption, and influence operations designed to delay or weaken an American response.
A major focus of the conversation is the vulnerability of U.S. territories like the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (CNMI), where visa policies, corruption, and weak enforcement mechanisms have created potential entry points for Chinese influence and intelligence activity.
The discussion also explores:
• Why Guam is central to any Taiwan conflict scenario
• How China uses political warfare to undermine U.S. military advantage
• The role of U.S. Pacific territories in national defense strategy
• Visa loopholes and security risks in the Northern Mariana Islands
• How corruption acts as an entry point for CCP influence
• Why Americans misunderstand the geography of their own country
• The importance of the Pacific as a strategic “corridor”
• How China studies World War II strategy in the Pacific
• The concept of disabling infrastructure without triggering war
• What a “block and build” strategy looks like in practice
• How the U.S. can support allies like Palau under pressure
• When economic ties with China become a strategic liability
• The risks exposed by the Diego Garcia debate and UK policy decisions
• Why allied coordination is critical in a potential Indo-Pacific conflict
Paskal also highlights how gaps in U.S. awareness — both among policymakers and the public — have allowed key vulnerabilities to persist, particularly in overlooked territories that play outsized roles in national security.
The conversation concludes with a stark warning: if the United States does not address corruption, policy blind spots, and strategic neglect in the Pacific, it risks creating vulnerabilities not just for itself, but for its allies across the region.
00:00 — Intro + Cleo Paskal returns to the China Desk
01:28 — Recap of Episode 89 and Pacific strategy framework
02:14 — Taiwan conflict scenario: why Guam matters
04:13 — Political warfare vs kinetic warfare
06:23 — Disabling Guam without triggering U.S. response
07:50 — Cognitive warfare and shaping U.S. public opinion
09:35 — CNMI visa loopholes and security risks
11:11 — Chinese access to U.S. territory explained
12:16 — Policy failures and lack of enforcement
13:54 — Why the Pacific is overlooked in U.S. strategy
14:42 — How maps distort American understanding
16:28 — Rethinking U.S. geography and strategic positioning
19:03 — Historical roots of U.S. Pacific strategy
20:27 — “Block and build” strategy explained
21:30 — Palau agreements and countering CCP influence
23:09 — Supporting allies through stability and security
25:29 — When economic ties become strategic risk
26:12 — UK, China, and the Diego Garcia controversy
29:08 — Legal, military, and nuclear implications
31:06 — Iran conflict and alliance reliability concerns
33:00 — Risks of dependence on allies in conflict
34:56 — Corruption risks in CNMI and governance failures
37:04 — Final warning: systemic vulnerabilities in U.S. strategy
38:44 — Closing thoughts and where to follow Cleo
Watch Full-Length Interviews: https://www.youtube.com/@ChinaDeskFNW
40 min
April 14 Ep. 97 - Deterring War with China: Taiwan Strategy & U.S. Power w/Eyck Freymann
Taiwan is often framed as a binary choice: surrender it to China or risk World War III. But is that really the full picture?
In this episode of The China Desk, host Steve Yates is joined by Eyck Freymann, Hoover Fellow at Stanford University and author of Defending Taiwan: A Strategy to Prevent War with China, to break down a more realistic — and more strategic — approach to one of the most dangerous flashpoints in the world today.
Freymann explains why the traditional debate around Taiwan is deeply flawed, arguing that the real challenge is not choosing between peace and war, but building a credible strategy that prevents conflict altogether while protecting core U.S. interests.
Drawing from his research and global experience, Freymann outlines how the Chinese Communist Party approaches power differently than Western governments — integrating military, economic, technological, and political tools into a single, coordinated strategy. He argues that the United States must respond in kind, or risk being outmaneuvered without a shot being fired.
A central focus of the conversation is deterrence — and why military strength alone is no longer enough. Freymann lays out a broader framework that includes political alignment, technological leadership, economic strategy, and alliance coordination as essential pillars for preventing conflict.
The conversation also covers:
• Why Taiwan is the “keystone” in China’s global ambitions
• The difference between the Chinese people and the CCP
• How China uses gray-zone tactics short of war (quarantine, coercion)
• Why military deterrence alone is no longer sufficient
• The role of alliances in shaping China’s decision-making
• How AI and semiconductor dominance factor into national security
• Why U.S. technological leadership is critical to deterrence
• The risks of economic “mutually assured destruction” with China
• What “avalanche decoupling” means — and why gradual separation matters
• How global perception and international opinion shape outcomes
• The importance of preparing for a post-crisis global order
Freymann also challenges the assumption that economic interdependence will prevent conflict, warning that it may actually deter the United States more than China if policymakers are unprepared for the consequences of escalation.
The discussion ultimately points to a narrow but critical path forward: maintaining deterrence through strength, coordination, and strategic clarity — while avoiding unnecessary provocation that could accelerate conflict.
00:00 — Intro + Eyck Freymann joins the China Desk
00:31 — Background, education, and early interest in China
03:15 — First-hand experience in China and CCP vs Chinese people
08:05 — How the CCP approaches strategy and power differently
09:48 — The flawed “war vs surrender” Taiwan debate
11:47 — Why Freymann wrote Defending Taiwan
13:49 — U.S. strategic interests at stake in Taiwan
16:31 — Why Taiwan is the “keystone” in China’s ambitions
17:34 — Rethinking deterrence beyond military power
19:17 — Political deterrence explained
20:45 — China’s “gray zone” tactics: quarantine and coercion
23:13 — Why global opinion and allies matter in a crisis
27:09 — Technological leadership, AI, and strategic competition
31:55 — Strategic stability: nuclear, cyber, and space domains
33:18 — Why economic deterrence may fail
35:01 — “Avalanche decoupling” and supply chain strategy
37:15 — Why economic interdependence can deter the U.S.
40:25 — Rebuilding a stronger global economic system
41:15 — Freymann’s 60-second strategy for U.S. leadership
43:26 — Where to find the book + closing
Watch Full-Length Interviews: https://www.youtube.com/@ChinaDeskFNW
45 min
April 07 Ep. 96 - China’s Influence in U.S. States: Risks and Response w/Amb. Joseph Cella
China’s influence operations are no longer limited to Washington — they are increasingly playing out at the state and local level across the United States.
In this episode of the China Desk Podcast, host Steve Yates is joined by Ambassador Joseph Cella, founder and president of the Secure Our States Coalition and former U.S. Ambassador to Fiji, for a wide-ranging discussion on how the Chinese Communist Party is targeting American communities, industries, and institutions from the ground up.
Cella explains how his work in Michigan — particularly efforts to push back against CCP-linked projects — led to the creation of the Secure Our States Coalition, a citizen-led initiative focused on identifying, exposing, and countering Chinese influence at the state level. He argues that while federal awareness of the China threat has grown, major gaps still exist in public awareness, policy coordination, and local-level response.
The conversation walks through how CCP-linked entities engage in the United States, often through seemingly legitimate economic activity that carries deeper national security implications. From foreign direct investment and tax incentives to academic partnerships and infrastructure projects, Cella outlines how these efforts exploit America’s open system.
The discussion also explores:
• How CCP influence operations target state and local governments
• The role of economic incentives, tax credits, and partnerships in expanding influence
• Risks tied to EV manufacturing, battery plants, and supply chains
• Concerns around land purchases near military installations and critical infrastructure
• The use of academic institutions and research partnerships to gain access
• Why data centers, drones, and technology supply chains present emerging risks
• The importance of state-level legislation and grassroots awareness
• How citizen-led efforts can close information, security, and policy gaps
Cella also highlights how political awareness is beginning to catch up, with growing bipartisan attention at the state level and increasing scrutiny of CCP-linked investments. However, he warns that the United States is still playing catch-up after years of underestimating the scope of the threat.
This is a comprehensive look at how geopolitical competition with China is unfolding inside the United States — and why state and local action may be just as critical as federal policy in addressing it.
00:00 — Introduction and Ambassador Joseph Cella joins the podcast
00:33 — Background and previous China Desk appearances
02:16 — Origin of the Secure Our States Coalition
05:06 — Why the coalition is focused on all 50 states
07:01 — The “China problem” and lack of public awareness
10:11 — Common CCP tactics: investment, influence, and partnerships
12:16 — Exploiting America’s open system and economic incentives
14:08 — Academic partnerships and national security concerns
15:49 — “China First” thinking and economic trade-offs
18:57 — State-level policy responses and legislative efforts
19:34 — EVs, batteries, and risks to U.S. manufacturing
21:21 — Restrictions on Chinese technology near military bases
23:06 — What policymakers often miss about the China threat
24:08 — Drones, data centers, and future vulnerabilities
26:56 — Supply chains, infrastructure, and national security risks
28:17 — Final thoughts and how to get involved

Watch Full-Length Interviews: https://www.youtube.com/@ChinaDeskFNW
31 min
March 31 Ep. 95 - China’s Crackdown on Faith, House Churches, and Human Rights w/Grace Jin Drexel
In this episode of the China Desk Podcast, host Steve Yates speaks with Grace Jin Drexel, human rights advocate and daughter of Pastor Ezra Jin, founder of one of China’s largest underground house church networks, about the Chinese Communist Party’s intensifying crackdown on religious freedom.
Grace shares the personal story of her father’s detention in October 2025, when Chinese authorities carried out a coordinated nationwide sweep targeting independent Christian leaders across multiple cities. She explains how her father’s church — which had grown from a local Beijing congregation into a nationwide network — became part of a broader campaign to suppress independent religious activity outside state control.
The conversation provides a rare, firsthand look at how religious life actually functions inside China, including the key differences between state-sanctioned churches and underground “house churches.” Grace describes how government-controlled churches operate under strict oversight — including limits on worship, leadership, and even the number of baptisms — while independent churches seek to practice faith freely but face increasing risk of surveillance, shutdown, and detention.
The discussion also explores:
• The CCP’s strategy of “Sinicization” and why it targets religion
• How faith communities are viewed as a threat to state control and civil society
• The rise of underground house churches and their rapid growth in China
• Why many Chinese citizens are turning to religion amid a “spiritual vacuum”
• The role of churches in providing community services, disaster relief, and social support
• How new laws and regulations are used to justify crackdowns and mass arrests
• The human toll of detention, lack of communication, and restricted legal access
• What policymakers, advocates, and everyday citizens can do to raise awareness and apply pressure
Grace also recounts the moment she learned of her father’s detention while living in the United States, describing the uncertainty, fear, and urgency that followed as she began advocating publicly for his release and for others facing similar persecution.
This is both a deeply personal story and a broader warning about the future of religious freedom in China — and the growing willingness of the CCP to target independent communities it cannot control.
00:00 — Introduction and Grace Jin Drexel joins the podcast
00:32 — Background: her father, Zion Church, and the 2025 crackdown
01:30 — Growing up in China as a pastor’s daughter
04:29 — Life in Beijing, the U.S., and returning to China
07:12 — Rise of Zion Church and transition to a nationwide network
09:20 — State churches vs underground house churches explained
12:23 — Government control, surveillance, and restrictions on worship
15:23 — Demand for Christianity and China’s “spiritual vacuum”
19:23 — Why the CCP fears religion and independent organizations
23:37 — Churches as civil society and community support networks
26:07 — Crackdowns, new laws, and coordinated arrests across China
30:09 — Mass detentions and targeting of church leaders
34:22 — Learning of her father’s arrest and initial response
39:00 — Lack of communication, legal limits, and health concerns
41:11 — Advocacy efforts and speaking before policymakers
43:27 — What governments and individuals can do to help
44:48 — Where to follow updates and support the cause
45:50 — Closing thoughts and final message
Watch Full-Length Interviews: https://www.youtube.com/@ChinaDeskFNW
47 min
March 24 Ep. 94 - China’s Grip on PCB's & the Hidden Risk to U.S. Supply Chains w/David Schild
What if one of the most critical components in modern technology — from fighter jets to smartphones — is also one of the most overlooked?
In this episode of The China Desk Podcast, host Steve Yates sits down with David Schild, Executive Director of the Printed Circuit Board Association of America (PCBAA), to break down the strategic importance of printed circuit boards (PCBs) and why they have become a major vulnerability in the U.S.–China competition.
Schild explains that while policymakers have focused heavily on semiconductors and rare earths, the United States has largely ignored the “middle layer” of the electronics stack — printed circuit boards — which connect and enable every advanced system in modern life. From defense systems and AI data centers to power grids and consumer electronics, virtually everything relies on PCBs.
The conversation details how China came to dominate global PCB production through long-term industrial policy, subsidies, and strategic investment, while U.S. production collapsed from roughly 30% of global supply to just 4% today. This shift has created serious national security concerns, including supply chain dependence, risks to trusted and secure systems, and the loss of domestic research and development.
The discussion also explores:
• Why PCB dependency poses risks to defense systems and critical infrastructure
• How “dual-use” and commercial off-the-shelf components create loopholes in defense procurement
• What happens to U.S. supply chains in a Taiwan crisis or major disruption in Asia
• The lack of surge manufacturing capacity in the United States
• Policy solutions including the PCBS Act, tax incentives, and Buy America requirements
• The role of tariffs, industrial policy, and strategic investment in rebuilding domestic production
• Why industrial policy and national security are now inseparable
Schild argues that rebuilding U.S. PCB manufacturing is not just an economic issue — it is essential to maintaining technological leadership, securing supply chains, and ensuring that the United States can compete in an era of great power competition.
Watch Full-Length Interviews: https://www.youtube.com/@ChinaDeskFNW
30 min
March 17Ep. 93 - Rural Australia vs. PRC Influence: Land Deals, Renewables, & Supply Chains w/Andrew Phelan
Host Steve Yates welcomes back Andrew Phelan, Australian med-tech entrepreneur, former DFAT Australia-China Council scholar, and longtime China Desk guest (episodes #72 & #85).
They explore grassroots concerns in rural Australia: PRC-linked entities acquiring prime farmland and mineral sands through opaque offshore structures. State governments are forcing wind and solar farms on farmers under the net zero agenda—often with little transparency or consultation. Farmers face contempt from policymakers, increased bushfire risks from turbines, and generational land loss.
The discussion draws parallels to U.S. rural and agricultural issues, examines supply chain vulnerabilities (rare earths and critical minerals), and highlights Germany’s shift from engagement to harsh reality (auto sales collapse, tech theft examples). Andrew stresses the need for “Team Freedom” alignment—US, Australia, Canada, UK, Japan—decoupling where necessary, and strong leadership like Trump’s industrial rebuilding and Japan’s Takahashi era.
He previews his upcoming platform TheChinaChallenge.com (launching soon) as a one-stop hub to counter CCP narratives and amplify freedom voices. Essential listening for understanding local-level malign influence, economic coercion, and strategic responses.
Subscribe on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify. Visit chinadeskpodcast.com for archives. Follow @TheChinaDesk on X.
00:00:00 - Welcome to the China Desk Podcast

00:00:07 - Host Steve Yates Intro & Guest Reminder: Andrew Phelan Returns

00:00:33 - Andrew Phelan Background & Previous Episodes (#72, #85)

00:01:21 - Grassroots Australia: Rural Concerns & PRC Influence

00:02:20 - Rural Victoria Travels: Farmer Concerns & State Government Ties

00:03:04 - Forced Renewables (Wind/Solar Farms) & Net Zero Agenda

00:04:08 - Bushfires, Turbine Risks & Contempt for Farmers

00:05:06 - Mineral Sands Deals: Opaque PRC-Linked Ownership Structures

00:05:49 - Landowner Stories & Championing Rural Voices

00:06:26 - Parallels to US Rural/Industry Impacts

00:30:31 - Due Diligence, Transparency & Stakeholder Engagement

00:30:59 - Aligning with Team Freedom: US, Australia, Canada, UK, Japan

00:31:26 - Decoupling on Rare Earths/Critical Minerals & Supply Chains

00:31:43 - Trump's Leadership & Rebuilding Industrial Strength

00:32:15 - Lessons from History: Industry Leaders Informing Policy

00:32:54 - Mugged by Reality: Germany's China Engagement Backfire

00:33:23 - Auto Industry Shift & Tech Theft Examples (Quantum Case)

00:34:14 - Learning from Repeated Plays & Deng's Rare Earths Quote

00:35:10 - Urgency of Deeper China Challenge Awareness

00:35:30 - Where to Follow Andrew: @ajphelo on X & Upcoming TheChinaChallenge.com

00:36:02 - Closing Thanks & Call to Action: chinadeskpodcast.com
Watch Full-Length Interviews: https://www.youtube.com/@ChinaDeskFNW
37 min

About China Desk

From the publisher's feed

China Desk is a nonpartisan podcast exploring the critical issues shaping the U.S.–China relationship. Hosted by Steve Yates, former White House national security advisor and president of Radio Free Asia, the show features leading experts, authors, and officials discussing the challenges and opportunities posed by China’s rise.