What should the United States realistically expect from high-level diplomacy with China — and where are the real risks in the relationship?

In this episode of The China Desk, host Steve Yates is joined by Andrew Harding, Policy Analyst for National Security and Indo-Pacific Affairs at The Heritage Foundation, for a detailed breakdown of President Trump’s recent summit with Xi Jinping and the broader future of U.S.-China relations.

Harding explains how the Heritage Foundation developed a framework for evaluating the summit — identifying what would constitute favorable outcomes for the United States, what risks to avoid, and how to think strategically about long-term competition with China.

The discussion explores how the summit ultimately functioned less as a transformational moment and more as a “maintenance check” on an increasingly competitive relationship between Washington and Beijing.

Major topics include:

The episode also dives into Harding’s earlier work on the Pacific Islands and the Compacts of Free Association (COFA), highlighting why the region has become increasingly important in the context of U.S.-China competition.

Additional topics include:

A major takeaway from the conversation is that future U.S.-China engagement should focus on protecting American strategic advantages — especially in AI, advanced technology, and national security — while avoiding concessions that weaken U.S. leverage.

The episode closes with a broader discussion on what to watch for ahead of a possible future Xi visit to the United States and why export controls and AI competition may become the defining issue of the next phase of U.S.-China relations.

00:00 — Intro + Andrew Harding joins

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What happens when someone raised inside China’s education system begins questioning everything they were taught?

In this episode of The China Desk, host Steve Yates sits down with independent China analyst and journalist Terence Shen for a wide-ranging discussion on CCP propaganda, Chinese political culture, Taiwan, and the future trajectory of the People’s Republic of China.

Born and raised in Beijing, Shen describes how studying abroad in Canada first exposed him to historical narratives and political realities that sharply contradicted what he learned in Chinese schools. That experience ultimately transformed him from a former pro-regime voice into one of the most prominent Mandarin-language critics of the Chinese Communist Party online.

The conversation traces Shen’s journey from Beijing to Hong Kong and eventually Toronto, where repeated censorship and account bans pushed him to launch a YouTube platform that now reaches more than one million subscribers worldwide — including audiences inside China using VPNs to bypass censorship.

A major theme of the episode is the distinction between Xi Jinping as an individual leader and the deeper structural realities of the CCP system itself.

The discussion covers:

The episode also explores the CCP’s narrative of “national rejuvenation” and how the regime ties its legitimacy to restoring China’s historical greatness — even as internal pressures continue to mount.

On Taiwan, Shen explains why many Taiwanese audiences increasingly worry less about direct invasion and more about internal political influence operations, propaganda, and efforts to weaken Taiwan from within.

The takeaway is clear: understanding modern China requires looking beyond headlines and individual leaders to the deeper political, historical, and cultural systems driving the CCP’s behavior.

00:00 — Intro + Terence Shen joins

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After 100 episodes, what has the China Desk revealed about the Chinese Communist Party, U.S. strategy, and the future of global competition?

In this special milestone edition of The China Desk, the roles are reversed. Host Steve Yates becomes the guest, while Andrew Langer, host of the Lunch Hour Podcast, steps in to lead the conversation — reflecting on the biggest lessons, themes, and takeaways from the first 100 episodes.

Since launching in 2023, China Desk has featured conversations with policymakers, analysts, and subject matter experts across the spectrum of U.S.-China relations. In this episode, Yates steps back to examine what those discussions reveal about where the relationship stands today — and where it is headed.

A major theme is the idea of reciprocity — a principle that has shaped many China Desk conversations. Yates explains why the U.S. should rethink policies that grant China access and advantages not reciprocated in return, and how this concept is beginning to influence broader trade and geopolitical thinking.

The discussion also covers:

The conversation also explores the human dimension of China policy — including how decades of political control, economic transformation, and social upheaval have shaped the Chinese population’s relationship with the state.

Looking forward, Yates outlines three core priorities for U.S. policy:

The episode closes on a more personal note, as Yates reflects on family, loss, and the importance of stepping away from policy work to reconnect with what matters most.

After 100 episodes, one message is clear: understanding China requires not just analysis — but listening, perspective, and a willingness to challenge long-held assumptions.

00:00 — Intro + 100th episode special format

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Is “China” as we understand it today really a continuous civilization — or a modern political construction?

In this episode of The China Desk, host Steve Yates sits down with Bill Hayton, journalist and author of The Invention of China, to unpack one of the most provocative ideas in China studies: that many core concepts of modern China — including its identity, history, and territorial claims — are far more recent than commonly believed.

Drawing on his research, Hayton explains how ideas like Chinese nationalism, sovereignty, and even the concept of “China” itself were shaped in the late 19th and early 20th centuries — often influenced by foreign thinkers, political pressures, and the collapse of the imperial system.

A major focus of the conversation is how these constructed narratives continue to shape modern Chinese policy, propaganda, and global strategy.

The discussion covers:

Hayton also explains how these narratives are actively reinforced today — from education campaigns to political messaging — to create cohesion, justify policy, and shape how both Chinese citizens and the outside world understand China.

The conversation highlights a critical takeaway: without questioning these foundational assumptions, policymakers risk misunderstanding China’s intentions, overestimating historical inevitabilities, and limiting strategic flexibility.

00:00 — Intro + Bill Hayton joins the China Desk

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China’s strategy in the Pacific is not just military — it’s political, economic, and deeply embedded in places most Americans rarely think about.

In this follow-up episode of The China Desk, host Steve Yates welcomes back Cleo Paskal, Senior Fellow at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, to build on their earlier conversation and go deeper into what a real Pacific conflict could look like — and where the United States is most vulnerable.

Paskal explains why any Chinese move on Taiwan would require neutralizing Guam and other U.S. territories in the Pacific, not necessarily through direct military strikes, but through political warfare, infrastructure disruption, and influence operations designed to delay or weaken an American response.

A major focus of the conversation is the vulnerability of U.S. territories like the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands (CNMI), where visa policies, corruption, and weak enforcement mechanisms have created potential entry points for Chinese influence and intelligence activity.

The discussion also explores:

Paskal also highlights how gaps in U.S. awareness — both among policymakers and the public — have allowed key vulnerabilities to persist, particularly in overlooked territories that play outsized roles in national security.

The conversation concludes with a stark warning: if the United States does not address corruption, policy blind spots, and strategic neglect in the Pacific, it risks creating vulnerabilities not just for itself, but for its allies across the region.

00:00 — Intro + Cleo Paskal returns to the China Desk

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Taiwan is often framed as a binary choice: surrender it to China or risk World War III. But is that really the full picture?

In this episode of The China Desk, host Steve Yates is joined by Eyck Freymann, Hoover Fellow at Stanford University and author of Defending Taiwan: A Strategy to Prevent War with China, to break down a more realistic — and more strategic — approach to one of the most dangerous flashpoints in the world today.

Freymann explains why the traditional debate around Taiwan is deeply flawed, arguing that the real challenge is not choosing between peace and war, but building a credible strategy that prevents conflict altogether while protecting core U.S. interests.

Drawing from his research and global experience, Freymann outlines how the Chinese Communist Party approaches power differently than Western governments — integrating military, economic, technological, and political tools into a single, coordinated strategy. He argues that the United States must respond in kind, or risk being outmaneuvered without a shot being fired.

A central focus of the conversation is deterrence — and why military strength alone is no longer enough. Freymann lays out a broader framework that includes political alignment, technological leadership, economic strategy, and alliance coordination as essential pillars for preventing conflict.

The conversation also covers:

Freymann also challenges the assumption that economic interdependence will prevent conflict, warning that it may actually deter the United States more than China if policymakers are unprepared for the consequences of escalation.

The discussion ultimately points to a narrow but critical path forward: maintaining deterrence through strength, coordination, and strategic clarity — while avoiding unnecessary provocation that could accelerate conflict.

00:00 — Intro + Eyck Freymann joins the China Desk

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China’s influence operations are no longer limited to Washington — they are increasingly playing out at the state and local level across the United States.

In this episode of the China Desk Podcast, host Steve Yates is joined by Ambassador Joseph Cella, founder and president of the Secure Our States Coalition and former U.S. Ambassador to Fiji, for a wide-ranging discussion on how the Chinese Communist Party is targeting American communities, industries, and institutions from the ground up.

Cella explains how his work in Michigan — particularly efforts to push back against CCP-linked projects — led to the creation of the Secure Our States Coalition, a citizen-led initiative focused on identifying, exposing, and countering Chinese influence at the state level. He argues that while federal awareness of the China threat has grown, major gaps still exist in public awareness, policy coordination, and local-level response.

The conversation walks through how CCP-linked entities engage in the United States, often through seemingly legitimate economic activity that carries deeper national security implications. From foreign direct investment and tax incentives to academic partnerships and infrastructure projects, Cella outlines how these efforts exploit America’s open system.

The discussion also explores:

Cella also highlights how political awareness is beginning to catch up, with growing bipartisan attention at the state level and increasing scrutiny of CCP-linked investments. However, he warns that the United States is still playing catch-up after years of underestimating the scope of the threat.

This is a comprehensive look at how geopolitical competition with China is unfolding inside the United States — and why state and local action may be just as critical as federal policy in addressing it.

00:00 — Introduction and Ambassador Joseph Cella joins the podcast

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In this episode of the China Desk Podcast, host Steve Yates speaks with Grace Jin Drexel, human rights advocate and daughter of Pastor Ezra Jin, founder of one of China’s largest underground house church networks, about the Chinese Communist Party’s intensifying crackdown on religious freedom.

Grace shares the personal story of her father’s detention in October 2025, when Chinese authorities carried out a coordinated nationwide sweep targeting independent Christian leaders across multiple cities. She explains how her father’s church — which had grown from a local Beijing congregation into a nationwide network — became part of a broader campaign to suppress independent religious activity outside state control.

The conversation provides a rare, firsthand look at how religious life actually functions inside China, including the key differences between state-sanctioned churches and underground “house churches.” Grace describes how government-controlled churches operate under strict oversight — including limits on worship, leadership, and even the number of baptisms — while independent churches seek to practice faith freely but face increasing risk of surveillance, shutdown, and detention.

The discussion also explores:

Grace also recounts the moment she learned of her father’s detention while living in the United States, describing the uncertainty, fear, and urgency that followed as she began advocating publicly for his release and for others facing similar persecution.

This is both a deeply personal story and a broader warning about the future of religious freedom in China — and the growing willingness of the CCP to target independent communities it cannot control.

00:00 — Introduction and Grace Jin Drexel joins the podcast

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What if one of the most critical components in modern technology — from fighter jets to smartphones — is also one of the most overlooked?

In this episode of The China Desk Podcast, host Steve Yates sits down with David Schild, Executive Director of the Printed Circuit Board Association of America (PCBAA), to break down the strategic importance of printed circuit boards (PCBs) and why they have become a major vulnerability in the U.S.–China competition.

Schild explains that while policymakers have focused heavily on semiconductors and rare earths, the United States has largely ignored the “middle layer” of the electronics stack — printed circuit boards — which connect and enable every advanced system in modern life. From defense systems and AI data centers to power grids and consumer electronics, virtually everything relies on PCBs.

The conversation details how China came to dominate global PCB production through long-term industrial policy, subsidies, and strategic investment, while U.S. production collapsed from roughly 30% of global supply to just 4% today. This shift has created serious national security concerns, including supply chain dependence, risks to trusted and secure systems, and the loss of domestic research and development.

The discussion also explores:

Schild argues that rebuilding U.S. PCB manufacturing is not just an economic issue — it is essential to maintaining technological leadership, securing supply chains, and ensuring that the United States can compete in an era of great power competition.

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Host Steve Yates welcomes back Andrew Phelan, Australian med-tech entrepreneur, former DFAT Australia-China Council scholar, and longtime China Desk guest (episodes #72 & #85). 

They explore grassroots concerns in rural Australia: PRC-linked entities acquiring prime farmland and mineral sands through opaque offshore structures. State governments are forcing wind and solar farms on farmers under the net zero agenda—often with little transparency or consultation. Farmers face contempt from policymakers, increased bushfire risks from turbines, and generational land loss. 

The discussion draws parallels to U.S. rural and agricultural issues, examines supply chain vulnerabilities (rare earths and critical minerals), and highlights Germany’s shift from engagement to harsh reality (auto sales collapse, tech theft examples). Andrew stresses the need for “Team Freedom” alignment—US, Australia, Canada, UK, Japan—decoupling where necessary, and strong leadership like Trump’s industrial rebuilding and Japan’s Takahashi era. 

He previews his upcoming platform TheChinaChallenge.com (launching soon) as a one-stop hub to counter CCP narratives and amplify freedom voices. Essential listening for understanding local-level malign influence, economic coercion, and strategic responses. 

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