In this episode I host a dialogue between Dr Ian Wickramasekera, Bön Buddhist practitioner and professor at Naropa University, and Julia Shannon, trainee clinical psychotherapist and researcher.

In the first part of this interview, Dr Ian discusses his current thinking on what the traditions of Dzogchen and Western hypnosis can learn from each other, challenges Herbert Benson’s relaxation response theory of meditation, and questions dualistic frameworks in science and experimental psychology.

Then, Dr Ian and Julia dialogue about the prevalence of mental illness and regressive coping in Buddhist meditators, the personality types of religious mystics, and Julia’s own experience using hypnosis to cure her phone addiction

Dr Ian and Julia also consider the implications of teaching advanced Buddhist meditation methods in a clinical setting, including ethical issues and concerns about violating sacred vows, and they discuss their experiences of personal identity and professional life as biracial adults in America.

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Video version: https://www.guruviking.com/podcast/ep178-buddhist-meditation-hypnosis-dzogchen-dr-ian-wickramasekera-julia-shannon

Also available on Youtube, iTunes, & Spotify – search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’.

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01:26 - Dzogchen and hypnosis

05:37 - Going beyond dualism in science

06:19 - Crisis in clinical psychology

09:37 - Suffering & serotonin

20:01 - Dzogchen philosophy in clinical hypnosis

22:14 - Invalidating Herbert Benson’s relaxation response theory of meditation

29:08 - What really brings cessation of suffering

30:14 - Aestheticism is needed in science

32:05 - Specific Dzogchen practices and hypnotic hallucinations

36:31 - A daily practice of hypnosis

40:01 - What science can offer Dzogchen

46:45 - Julia’s background

49:05 - Overcoming phone addiction via hypnosis

52:08 - Hypnotic trance vs meditative states

53:46 - Stigmata of hypnosis and meditation

57:56 - High hypnotisable people and the prevalence to mystical experience

01:01:10 - Ronald J. Pekal’s Phenomenology of Consciousness Inventory (PCI)

01:03:15 - Myth of meditation brain states such as alpha

01:07:23 - Bringing Buddhist practice into clinical practice

01:08:53 - Mental illness in religious practitioners

01:10:44 - Repressive coping in tummo meditators

01:23:02 - Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche and finding one’s innate experience

01:25:06 - Presenting completion stage practices in a secular context

01:29:20 - Trekchod and togyal vs post-hypnotic suggestion

01:31:23 - Which Buddhist practices Dr Ian gives to his patients

01:33:32 - Experimental vs clinical psychology

01:34:41 - Does teaching Buddhist practice to non-Buddhists break Samaya?

01:38:03 - Hypnotising Dzogchen practitioners

01:39:49 - Counselling dissatisfied Buddhists

01:41:33 - Nervousness about teaching Dzogchen and Vajrayana

01:43:02 - The importance of devotion

01:45:08 - Training clinicians and counsellors

01:50:38 - Dr Ian asks Julia about her experience being hypnotised

01:54:14 - Catharsis, clinging, and the battle of addiction

01:56:19 - Executive ego and skepticism

01:57:19 - Pointing out instructions and polypsychic therapy

02:01:32 - Rapid behaviour change and eschatological pressure

02:03:15 - Race, empathy, and therapeutic efficacy

02:10:33 - Integrating dualistic racial identities

02:12:08 - Identity dimensions of the therapist

02:16:22 - Chogyam Trungpa and reconciling racial identity

02:24:23 - Role-taking theory and hallucinated intensity

02:29:26 - Myths of hypnosis and the role of expectancy

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Previous episodes with Dr Ian Wickramasekera:

- https://www.guruviking.com/search?q=wickramasekera

To find our more about Dr Ian Wickramasekera, visit:

- https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ian_Wickramasekera2

- https://www.naropa.edu/faculty/ian-wickramasekera.php

For more interviews, videos, and more visit:

- www.guruviking.com

Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James