In this episode I am joined by Dr Nicholas Van Dam, the inaugural Director of the Contemplative Studies Centre and an Associate Professor in the Melbourne School of Psychological Sciences at the University of Melbourne, and Chelsey Fasano, a Columbia University neuroscience graduate.

Dr Van Dam discusses his 2018 paper ‘Mind the Hype: A Critical Evaluation and Prescriptive Agenda for Research on Mindfulness and Meditation’ which levels serious criticisms at his own field of mindfulness research and contemplative neuroscience, taking aim at poor methodological practices, problems with definitions, and the strong incentives in the field which can conflict with the pursuit of science.

Dr Van Dam reveals what he calls the unholy triad of mindfulness research, explores the theme of elitism in meditation, and raises questions about the studies conducted on Buddhist contemplative Matthieu Ricard, known as the ‘happiest man in the world’.

Dr Van Dam also considers the degree to which mindfulness can be meaningfully isolated apart from its traditional religious contexts, notes the adverse effects of meditation, and shares his thoughts for the individual meditator on how to practice and who to trust in todays meditation marketplace.

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Video version: https://www.guruviking.com/podcast/ep213-mind-the-hype-dr-nicholas-van-dam-chelsey-fasano

Also available on Youtube, iTunes, & Spotify – search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’.

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Topics Include:

00:00 - Intro

01:26 - Mind the Hype

03:02 - Realising something was wrong with the mindfulness field

05:30 - Has the field improved?

06:20 - Perverse incentives

08:08 - The unholy triad of mindfulness

09:53 - The definition problem

11:56 - Poor standards of evidence

14:36 - Misunderstanding of neuroplasticity

16:36 - The Matthieu Ricard problem and elitism

19:17 - Olympians of the mind

21:21 - Adverse effects of meditation

22:11 - History of elitism in Buddhist meditation

23:48 - Controversies about defining mindfulness

29:16 - The judgment trap

31:58 - Operationalising mindfulness to serve the research agenda

32:58 - Missing the traditional context

35:40 - To what extent can science be informed by traditional schema?

42:01 - Consequences of moving away from religious thinking

46:45 - Scientism as a faith position

47:41 - Profit incentives

51:17 - What motivates mindfulness researchers?

51:29 - How to we recognise authority?

52:43 - Omertà and corrupt science

59:22 - Career risks in criticising mindfulness research

01:02:33 - Mindfulness is passé

01:04:28 - Critique of psychedelic and tech interventions

01:08:56 - Why bother with meditation?

01:12:39 - Importance of practice goals

01:13:50 - Is enlightenment really worth the effort and risk?

01:16:40 - Is meditation just practicing skilful suffering?

01:18:21 - Real practice doesn’t sell

01:20:46 - Advice for meditation practitioners

01:23:22 - Recommendations for mindfulness researchers

01:23:58 - Gaslighted by religious traditions

01:24:51 - Who can we trust?

01:27:26 - Contemplative Studies Centre

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To find out more about Dr Van Dam, visit:

- https://www.nicholastvandam.com/

- https://psychologicalsciences.unimelb.edu.au/CSC

- https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29016274/

To find our more about Chelsey Fasano visit:

- www.chelseyfasano.com

For more interviews, videos, and more visit:

- https://www.guruviking.com

Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James