In this episode I host part 2 of a dialogue between Shinzen Young, meditation teacher and neuroscience research consultant, and Chelsey Fasano, a Columbia University neuroscience student.

We get a front row seat for what Shinzen calls ‘early science’ as Chelsey consults Shinzen on her current research project, a review of the neuroscience literature that examine states of self-identification and non-dual awareness.

In the course of the discussion, we discuss different paradigms of enlightenment, including gating of attentional abilities, reducing self-referential activity, the neuroscience of clinging, top-down processing and more.

Chelsey shares her own meditation experiences and Shinzen reveals a detailed account of how he experiences the world after a lifetime of extreme meditation and hard-nosed science.

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https://www.guruviking.com/ep76-shinzen-young-chelsey-fasano-2-the-science-of-enlightenment/

Audio version of this podcast also available on iTunes and Stitcher – search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’.

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Topics Include:

0:00 - Intro

0:51 - The three stories of self and reality

6:23 - Gating attentional abilities vs reducing self-referential activity

7:59 - How the modern influences traditional teachers

8:27 - Integrating hard data and subjective experience

9:11 - Chelsey’s meditation experiences

11:23 - Antonio Damasio’s theoretical framework and other theories

14:14 - Decrease in identification with the body in advanced practitioners

16:50 - Is it possible to grade levels of enlightenment?

19:34 - How Shinzen proves someone is not an arhat

22:32 - Enlightenment in the body

26:28 - Clinging and the posterior cingulate cortex (PCC)

35:27 - Reconfiguring top-down processing via meditation

40:12 - What is early science?

43:22 - Integration of liberation

49:40 - Shinzen’s experience after a lifetime of meditation and science

1:05:22 - Does theism have a place in science?

1:08:54 - Is enlightenment really about raw data?

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Previous episode with Shinzen and Chelsey:

- https://www.guruviking.com/ep72-shinzen-young-and-chelsey-fasano-tantra-neuroscience-and-true-enlightenment/

Previous Interview with Shinzen Young:

- https://www.guruviking.com/ep37-shinzen-young-pandemic-edition-guru-viking-podcast/

To find out more about Shinzen, visit:

- www.shinzen.org

To find out more about Chelsey, visit:

- www.chelseyfasano.com

For more interviews, videos, and more visit:

- www.guruviking.com

Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James