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In this episode Jason Robertson has a follow-up discussion with Yefim Gamgoneishvili  about the concept of the five minds and how they might relate to the seven emotions. The discussion takes ideas outlined in an earlier episode and further explores strategies for approaching psycho-emotional patterns ( 證 zhèng).  Using this lens, careful differentiation of more commonplace signs and symptoms can provide clues to effective treatment strategies for these sometimes thorny complaints.