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Gun Lawyer — Episode 289 Transcript

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

ATF raid, Brian Malinowski, unlicensed dealer, Arkansas lawmakers, DOJ investigation, no-knock warrant, self-defense, gun laws, Biden administration, Waco incident, Ruby Ridge, gun deserts, consumer protection, defensive property, gun rights.

SPEAKERS

Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen, Speaker 2

Evan Nappen 00:17

I’m Evan Nappen.

Teddy Nappen 00:19

and I’m Teddy Nappen.

Evan Nappen 00:21

And welcome to Gun Lawyer.

Teddy Nappen 00:24

So.

Evan Nappen 00:25

Teddy, what’s up, man?

Teddy Nappen 00:28

Well, just flipping through Ammoland from John Crump, by John Crump. I never even heard of this story. Like, I’m going to be very honest. I did not know this happened under the, by the ATF. Arkansas lawmakers are demanding the DOJ investigate the ATF raid on Brian Malinowski. (https://www.ammoland.com/2026/05/arkansas-lawmakers-doj-investigation-atf-raid-bryan-malinowski/)

Evan Nappen 00:54

Are you talking about Malinowski?

Teddy Nappen 00:56

Yeah, Malinowski. When reading the article, I was shocked, because I remember from all the criminal procedures of like, what you would do. And I’m like, this is the, I was getting flashbacks to watching the Waco documentary, from reading, like. Page – 2 – of 14

Evan Nappen 01:14

Teddy, let me explain. Yeah, I’m familiar with the Malinowski case. So, Malinowski was a total law-abiding guy. No priors, no issues, a law -abiding guy. He lived in, I believe, it was Alabama, and he was gun collector. He’d go to gun shows, and he would trade for guns. Sell private sale guns, etc., okay? A collector. And what happened was, as you may recall, the Biden bull garbage that we were dealing with. Trying to turn people into dealers who weren’t dealers. Well, ATF apparently believed that Mr. Malinowski was being an unlicensed gun dealer. Now, here’s the thing. He is a professional, first of all. As I recall, his background was in air traffic, you know, with the airline. Air Traffic Control, I think it was.

Teddy Nappen 02:37

He was the, he looked like he was the head of the Clinton National Airport of Little Rock.

Evan Nappen 02:43

Yeah. Here is a guy who’s a professional, head of an airport, that has his hobby of firearms, as many of us do. And Alabama is a private sale legal state.

Teddy Nappen 02:56

I think it was Arkansas.

Evan Nappen 02:59

Arkansas? Oh, yeah, yes, Arkansas, Arkansas.

Teddy Nappen 03:02

Or the proper term, ArKansas.

Evan Nappen 03:04

Well, it was legal for. Right! It was Arkansas, and it was legal to do. And what happened was just outrageous. They claimed he was in the business of selling firearms without an FFL. So, that’s the charge. You know whether they could prove it or not prove it or whatever, that’s what their claim was. And what happened was, ATF and Little Rock Police got a search warrant, and they came to his home at 6 am to look for evidence of wrongdoing. ATF breached the door with a battering ram. And I think, according to his wife, Malinowsky believed that these were intruders breaking into his home at 6 am, and he fired at the agents, not realizing, of course, what the hell’s going on. He hit one in the foot, and law officers there returned fire. Shooting Malinowski in the head and killing him dead.

Evan Nappen 04:27

So, here’s what the lawmakers, they sent a letter to DOJ about this, and the letter reads, listen to this. “Awakened by the sound of the breach, Mr. Malinowski retrieved a handgun and encountered an armed silhouette entering his home. He fired toward the intruder’s feet. An ATF agent immediately returned fire, striking Mr. Malinowski in the forehead and killing him. Mrs. Malinowski was standing only inches behind him.” Now, this is activity by ATF, where they are going after, you know, what is essentially paperwork crime, if it even qualifies as crime. They busted down his door at 6 am. How come this was done as a no knock for this guy? Who knows? Crazy. He ends up getting killed. And yet here, Teddy, you didn’t even hear about it. Yet, we take cases with, and hear about cases with, with ICE, right? Page – 3 – of 14

Teddy Nappen 05:46

Pretti and Good. (Alex) Pretti and (Renee) Good.

Evan Nappen 05:47

Yeah, Pretti and Good. Where, you know, with Renee Good, she was, you know, trying to run down, allegedly, this officer. She went there to protest. She was there knowing there was going to be agitation, knowing there’s going to be trouble going there. Same with Pretti, same with Pretti.

Teddy Nappen 06:10

Who actually was fighting with the police.

Evan Nappen 06:12

Fighting with them and going there.

Evan Nappen 06:14

That’s not what happened here. We have a guy in his home! A law-abiding guy in his home, who at best, has paperwork violations. A licensing violation at best. Not even that that is necessarily legitimate, and he ends up shot in the head over the actions taken by ATF. And you don’t hear a peep about it in the lame stream media.

Teddy Nappen 06:42

The other part that really, there’s two pieces that stick out. Three pieces, actually, stick out to me. Number one, the knock and announce. So, I remember, in criminal procedure, we talked about this. It is very important on the knock and announce for the officers. They waited 23 seconds. They knocked, waited 23 seconds, and then break the door down. They also had enough time to tape the camera, the doorbell camera. And no body cams, because apparently, their excuse was low funding. Not enough funding for body cams even though they are supposed to have.

Evan Nappen 07:19

They had enough money to buy tape.

Teddy Nappen 07:21

Yeah, they had enough money to buy tape. Yeah, they had enough.

Evan Nappen 07:24

To cover the doorbell lock camera, cover the door. Look, if they’re there as law enforcement, don’t you want it known to this guy, who has no priors, who’s not a problem? Don’t you want it known that it’s law enforcement there? You want to make it crystal clear! Hey, Government, law enforcement here. Boom! You want to be seen on the Ring that you are law enforcement and not 6 am house hot invaders.

Teddy Nappen 08:01

The other factor is there is clear. There have been other encounters with the ATF with this exact same scenario. You know what they did? They knocked on the door and said, Hi, we’re with the ATF. It’s the Page – 4 – of 14

Ring doorbell camera there. That situation. They’ll you say, No, I’m, you know, I’m not talking to you, or we’re here to arrest you. Okay, we’re, that’s it. They had so many other encounters where this could have been. But instead, they decided to go full Waco SWAT team and assassinate this man.

Evan Nappen 08:30

It’s insane. It’s insane. And, you know, their history of activities. I mean, we know, you know, Waco was just horrible. They had a guy inside of the facility that could have easily made that encounter completely non- violent. Instead, way back in those days, you know, with Clinton and company, they did it to try to make an example out of this guy’s church, etc. And of course, it was all to “save the children”, to save the children, which all end up dying because of what they did.

Teddy Nappen 09:13

And then tried to cover it up.

Evan Nappen 09:13

With the fire, and then tried to cover it up. Oh, they bulldozed the scene as quick as they could afterwards.

Teddy Nappen 09:20

Yeah.

Evan Nappen 09:21

You know, because the stuff they used lit the place on fire.

Teddy Nappen 09:28

My favorite was, if you do, you remember the hearings? Where you know how the you could clearly see the Dems trying to justify the ATF murdering people?

Evan Nappen 09:36

Right!

Teddy Nappen 09:37

Republicans fighting, and I love the one.

Evan Nappen 09:39

Don’t forget Ruby Ridge as well.

Teddy Nappen 09:41

Yep.

Evan Nappen 09:42

I mean, over a shotgun barrel, that was where they entrapped the guy, literally entrapped the guy. They ended up paying like $3 million in civil damages for their actions there at Ruby Ridge. Okay? So this kind of rogue insanity, oh, it’s fine, as long as it’s on gun owners, you know. Page – 5 – of 14

Teddy Nappen 10:08

But this is the key. What really bothers me the most, Dad. The biggest question they’re asking from the lawmakers, the political motivation. The question remains, is whether the timing and aggressiveness of the operation were influenced by the impending rollout, by the ATF’s final ruling of the “engaged in the business of selling firearms”. So, imagine if, right now, and I always have to tell this to all those out there who are trying to say, you know, Republicans and Democrats are the exact same thing. Or should have just voted for Kamala Harris. Imagine Kamala Harris now with their current ATF, and they enforce that law, where you and I are going to be assassinated in the night by armed guards bursting in accusing people of being unlicensed. It’s disgusting!

Evan Nappen 10:58

The armed agent nonsense of doing this. Luckily, you know, President Trump and his administration are taking steps now to remove, in the 39 rule proposals, remove that absurd “doing business” expansion that Biden did. So, basically, if you sell a gun, you’re considered a dealer under the old Biden. Ending the so-called, where even going after dealers themselves by saying, one error, one error, and you can lose your FFL completely. I mean, these activities are just outrageous. What takes place there barely gets any attention. But if you’re out there causing problems regarding other wrongdoers, that being illegal aliens, that are themselves having broken the law, and here they’re trying to protect other lawbreakers. And then you go to this cause a conflict, the media blows that all over the place. But here, this guy gets shot in the head in his home.

Teddy Nappen 12:30

You know, it’s also people don’t talk about that, comparatively to the ICE tactics. The ICE tactics, what they do are actually far much more safer. They do everything they can to not escalate and just go full SWAT team and shoot people on that. The two extremes, where someone is trying to run you over with a car, or the other individual who is attacking and fighting with them, and then during the scarcity of when in the chaos of all them trying to hold him down the confusion, he gets shot. That’s the clear difference here. Let’s just say, for the sake of argument, justification, all right. He fired at them. They fired back. Looking at everything prior to where there was barely any knock. They taped the cameras. No body cams. They just went into the night. The wife says, I think there is an intruder. By the way, their warrant said not a dangerous threat, not a dangerous criminal.

Evan Nappen 13:26

So, they were even told, so why are they taping the doorbell camera? Just act normal. You know, we’re here. We’re law enforcement. We have a warrant. Let us in. We have a warrant. I would bet you anything, as long as they made it clear they had a warrant, this guy is going to be okay. You have a warrant come in. Instead, he’s under this impression that his house is subject to a hot robbery.

Teddy Nappen 13:53

Yeah, by the way, it’s dark. Where were the, you know, badges, anything, just to say, anyone, you bust down the door and yelled police on that front. SWAT teams are trained in that engagement where you’re going in to a situation, clearing rooms, if you’re going to go in that hot. I mean, where’s the justification for that? Where the guy had no priors, nothing. It’s insane. Page – 6 – of 14

Evan Nappen 14:17

It is. And, you know, I visited the site at Waco. If you ever get out there, they have a memorial site. This is, of course, not official, but they have it there, and you can pay a visit. You know, the I saw the actual warrant for Koresh for the raid on Waco. The actual search warrant that they were using. And one of the lines that stuck out to me was where they said they observed, when they had their inside man, that he had subversive literature there. This is actually in the warrant, in the affidavit for the warrant. That he had subversive literature. And the subversive literature, written in the warrant, was Shotgun News and Soldier of Fortune Magazine. Did you know that that’s known as subversive literature? SOF and Shotgun News. Yeah. That was Janet Reno. She was the Attorney General back then. Whoof. Bad news, bad news.

Evan Nappen 15:29

And those incidents, you think they would learn from these other horror shows that they conducted. Not to pull that again. But once Democrats are pushing it, especially as you point out, when they want to make an example, they will try to do something like this to push their agenda. I’m sure that was part of their motivation. We’ve seen them try to lay groundwork anytime they want to push an agenda. A great example of it is the so- called, which you don’t hear about anymore after the incident, as you recall the Fast and Furious Operation. With the Fast and Furious Operation, they were providing arms to the Narco terrorists. So, the U.S. Government, through them, gave arms that supposedly had trackers or something to arm the bad guys. And one of the arms ended up killing a Federal officer later. (https://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/news-releases/facts-are-stubborn-things-connection-between-fast-and-furious-and-agent-terrys) I think it was Terry. Brian Terry was his name. They ended up killing Terry with guns supplied by the Government. Now, why were they doing this? Well, they were pursuing an anti-Second Amendment agenda.

Teddy Nappen 16:52

Wasn’t it the steel pipeline?

Evan Nappen 16:54

Well, the iron pipeline. What it was they. At the same time that they had tried this Fast and Furious Operation, to try to somehow demonstrate that guns are flowing from the U.S. to Narco terrorists. That’s when they also put in the multiple rifle reporting requirements on the border states. And that’s also when they changed the 4473 where you have to either admit or deny your Hispanic heritage. This was all part of this approach that was the iron pipeline idea. It blew up in their face. So, they had to abandon it after Fast and Furious. But that was their evil plan back then. So, it wouldn’t surprise me that this was part of their propaganda campaign, and it ends up with this guy shot in the head. It’s just outrageous.

Teddy Nappen 17:59

As I recall, I think it was the head of the operation, during some interview where he’s talking about it. How we planned to put GPS trackers into the firearms to see where they ended up. And did you? No. They just handed the guns, just handed them over. Yeah, then when they found it for some murder or Page – 7 – of 14

some crime, they’re like, oh yeah. They trace the serial number, and like, oh, that’s one of ours. Our bad! Whoopsie.

Evan Nappen 18:27

Yeah, yeah. So, as long as the U.S. Government was arming Narco terrorists, that’s okay.

Teddy Nappen 18:34

I know, right?

Evan Nappen 18:35

And putting guns into. You know, you see from the Left, and this even reflects in the Southern Poverty Law Center. Well, we don’t really have enough racism. So, I guess we’ll pay racists to make sure, you know. Hence, you get Charlotteville and all those things happening. By a creation. by the Left, to create the issue for them to then create more intrusion, more laws, more of their agenda by doing these operations. This is their M.O.

Teddy Nappen 19:11

Take it a step further, Dad. You have to remember when it comes to the Left, and this is just, they recruit the mentally ill. I’ll give you the best one. 45% of liberals describe their mental health as poor. 45%. That’s right from a pole.

Evan Nappen 19:29

I think that’s low.

Teddy Nappen 19:29

It probably is higher, but this is my point. They recruit the mentally ill. They scream and call people Nazis, fascists. They’re going to kill you. They’re gonna go after your family. They’re doing everything they can.

Evan Nappen 19:30

Pedos. Smear with everything they can come up with. Smear, smear, smear. Make sure you populate the internet with all the smears. Make sure you have the paid protesters pushing the smears. I mean, their propaganda machine is second to none.

Teddy Nappen 20:02

And then when one of them, who’s mentally ill enough to say, yeah, let’s do it. And then tries to run down a hallway and get shot down by an MP7. Thank you, Secret Service. Or another individual tries to shoot at our President, multiple times, different ones.

Evan Nappen 20:20

No. Now they want to blame, somehow it’s President Trump’s fault.

Teddy Nappen 20:25

Yeah, yeah. Page – 8 – of 14

Evan Nappen 20:26

You know what?

Teddy Nappen 20:27

It’s so disgusting.

Evan Nappen 20:31

Well, and it’s not just Democrats, but also, as you call the black pillars. They don’t help the situation.

Teddy Nappen 20:37

They’re the, I like what Stephen Crowder calls them. They’re the woke Right, the horseshoe Right. They’re saying they’re all the same, man. They’re all the same. Look at the inroads that Trump has made, and imagine. Do you really want to give the other party that power where they’ll send in a hit squad to kill you because they think you’re illegally selling guns? That is what you want? No, thank you. Do not hand it. You’re a bunch of accelerationists thinking that we’re gonna really make change. No, you’re handing power to the individuals that want to destroy us. That is insane.

Evan Nappen 21:16

I mean, you know, look back just under the Biden administration, what we put up with. Curtailing freedom of speech, with the conspiracies that are shown to be absolute lies against the President and against Republicans. I mean, the stuff they did is unbelievable. I guess you saw Dan Bongino talking about the burn bag that has all that information in it. They wanted to burn it, and somehow ended up not burned. Somebody, I think, didn’t want that to get burned. Somebody there wanted the truth.

Teddy Nappen 21:55

You also have to remember the Twitter files. Mark Zuckerberg admitting that he was pressured by the Biden administration to censor Republicans and the pressure that Democrats in charge to censor Republican and conservative voices. The YouTube censorship. All the big tech censorship, all up and down. Now you’re saying, no, no. Let’s give this back to the Left. It’s no. You’re ridiculous if you think that is actually a good strategy. So, yeah.

Evan Nappen 22:23

Well, Teddy. Let me tell you what’s going on this week at WeShoot. So, WeShoot has Smith and Wesson Bodyguards, the 2.0 Performance Center, Carry Comp. This is a pretty hot gun. It’s ultra concealable, which is very important in New Jersey. And it has upgraded performance center tuning and an integrated compensator that keeps recall flat and control high. They also have the Radian Ramjet and Afterburner Barrel and Comp, which is really the ultimate Glock upgrade. It transforms that platform to having reduced muzzle rise, faster follow up and next level shooting dynamics. They also are offering the Daniel Defense DDM4 MK18, which is a short barrel legend with military roots, and that gun will deliver unmatched reliability and maneuverability in tight spaces. And you don’t want to miss Karly Morgan, she’s the “Dirt Bike” All-American Girl, bringing raw energy, independence and fearless spirit to the WeShoot lifestyle. Proving, once again, that freedom isn’t just protected, it’s lived. Page – 9 – of 14

Evan Nappen 23:57

And by the way, WeShoot is running a Mother’s Day special promo, and they have some great deals going on there. WeShoot is the place. It’s an indoor range conveniently located in Lakewood, right off the Parkway. It’s where Teddy and I shoot, and we get our training there. You can get your training there, too. Get your necessary CCARE certificates for New Jersey carry. You can get any of the beginner to advanced training. WeShoot really has it all. It’s a great range, great place. We love it. You’ll love it, too. Check out. weshootusa.com, weshootusa.com.

Evan Nappen 24:47

Let me also shamelessly promote my book, New Jersey Gun Law, the Bible of New Jersey gun laws. It’s over 500 pages, 120 topics, all question and answer to guide you through the matrix of insanity that we call New Jersey gun law. It’s all done in that question and answer format. You’ll get answers to your legal questions out of that book in writing by me. That’s right. An attorney who has dedicated his life to defending law-abiding New Jersey gun owners and trying to make it so we don’t commit GOFUs. Because New Jersey is loaded with them. And protect yourself, man. Knowledge is power. Go to EvanNappen com. You’ll see the big orange book there and get a copy today. Hey, what else, Teddy, is on your mind that you’ve discovered?

Teddy Nappen 25:47

So, this one came up recently. As everyone’s favorite, I am Spartacus, Senator Cory Booker. One of his staffers decided to bring a his carry into the Capitol. And every time I see that individual, I think of, didn’t you debate Cory Booker?

Evan Nappen 26:09

I did. I debated Corey Booker.

Teddy Nappen 26:11

When what was it?

Evan Nappen 26:13

I debated Cory Booker a number of years ago on TV. He came in, and we were arguing about New Jersey gun laws. They brought him in as, big surprise, for the anti-Second Amendment arguments. And I’ll tell you upfront, as a person, he’s a very personable guy. Like personable. Talking to him, he’s friendly. But, of course, you know, the anti-gun arguments always fail. This was no different.

Teddy Nappen 26:46

He’s a Gavin Newsom. He’s slick.

Evan Nappen 26:48

Right. He’s slick. But you know, unfortunately, their agenda is that of being anti-rights. They love to claim that they, oh, I support the Second Amendment, BUT. It’s always that, BUT. And the but is, I want to ban all guns or whatever. But they somehow support the Second Amendment, and they’ve never met a gun law they didn’t like. So, so much for that lie. Page – 10 – of 14

Teddy Nappen 27:11

I always think of the Left. They always try. If they ever took power and packed the court, they’re just going to go to the Second Amendment and go, look, that’s a comma. See that comma? That means we can pass whatever we want, like.

Evan Nappen 27:32

Well, it’s a living document. It’s a living document. In a modern society, there’s no reason why anyone needs, whatever, fill in the blank.

Teddy Nappen 27:44

Yeah. Fill in the blank.

Evan Nappen 27:45

As if need has got anything to do with anything.

Teddy Nappen 27:48

You know, like the ATF rolling up on your house and trying to assassinate you.

Evan Nappen 27:52

Well, you know, what do you need a sports car for? What do you need a supercharged bass boat for? What do you need any. You know, we’re not a needs-based society. We’re not each according to their needs. That ain’t us. Okay? Needs ain’t about it, all right?

Teddy Nappen 28:14

Well, the Socialist got nothing to do with it.

Evan Nappen 28:17

Yeah, and they do.

Evan Nappen 28:18

And that’s a growing movement. You know, you hear the term Democrat socialist. The only difference between a Democrat socialist and a socialist is a Democrat socialist is trying to impose socialism by way of our elections and the political process, to make a socialist. And make the same. Yeah.

Teddy Nappen 28:41

They’re communists. They’re just communists. They literally. You had Bernie Sanders honeymooning in the USSR, and you had Sean Penn praising Venezuela. And what was it? Jane Fonda and Cuba praising the Cuban regime.

Evan Nappen 29:00

Just recently, Jayapal, the legislator, was caught trying to figure out how they can get oil past the U.S. sanctions embargo to Cuba. (https://www.foxnews.com/video/6395078651112?utm_content=other&utm_source=flipboard) Isn’t that great? Just try to undermine our foreign policy. Isn’t that cute? Page – 11 – of 14

Teddy Nappen 29:00

You know, some might say that would be aiding a foreign adversary, but, you know.

Evan Nappen 29:25

Right. Yeah. I mean, who knows, but somehow they just keep on going with this stuff, with our enemies. With folks that are opposed to what has created the greatest standard of living in the history of humanity, and that is capitalism.

Teddy Nappen 29:48

But going back to it Cory Booker. His staffer was a retired law enforcement officer. He had the gun on him, and he went into the Capitol. He was arrested last year, and of course, the charges were dropped without any consequences lingering. And now the debate on whether he could carry or not, I went.

Evan Nappen 30:08

He may have been retired law enforcement. I don’t know if LEOSA applied in that particular situation in law enforcement safety.

Teddy Nappen 30:17

Yeah, I pulled it from the U.S. Capitol Police. Their rules are all weapons are prohibited, even if you are a retired law enforcement officer.

Evan Nappen 30:28

So, I don’t know how it got dismissed.

Teddy Nappen 30:32

Well, you know why.

Evan Nappen 30:35

Yeah, exactly.

Teddy Nappen 30:36

But it could have been, the minutia of the staffer had gotten permission. Apparently, if you meet certain requirements, you could have, but it didn’t seem, there was no mention if he even met the requirements. Doesn’t matter. They just walked away the charges. It’s right there with, uh, Mr. Pull the fire alarm because I don’t understand how to open a door. What was his name?

Evan Nappen 30:56

I don’t remember. But yeah, yeah, right, yeah.

Teddy Nappen 30:59

Like that. Yeah. Charges dropped. But this is the thing. It’s always about the elitism. Where you have, here’s someone extremely anti-gun pushing the anti-gun agenda. Right here, the newest article right from them. U.S. Senator Cory Booker leads colleagues renewed push to establish safety standards for Page – 12 – of 14

firearms in an effort to save lives. Pushing a new bill right here. They’re going to add the Firearms Safety Act. It creates a Consumer Product Safety Act that was first passed in 1972. It corrects the gap.

Evan Nappen 31:36

The gap, the so-called gap. What it is they want this mechanism in the Government so that they can ban guns via Consumer Protection. The idea is to abuse Consumer Protection laws, and you see New Jersey doing this state side. They’re alleging the Consumer Protection violations under state law against legitimate dealers, gun makers, etc. So, beware. This is yet a further angle that they’re pursuing to take away our rights. It’s the movement of gun rights suppression is to go at every angle. Whether they can link guns to a health care problem, whether they can link guns to a consumer protection problem, whether they can, you know, anything they can somehow tag it on with that’s what they try to do to expand their suppression of our rights. It’s classic tactics by those that oppose the Second Amendment.

Teddy Nappen 32:53

Well, what they’re trying to do is create and I’ve coined this term. I don’t know who else coined it, but I like it. Gun deserts. They are trying to, the Left are trying to, the Left are trying to push the stupid argument of a food desert, which you can have food delivered very easily. From what they’re doing, going after gun dealers in Jersey, making extremely hard to even open a shop. I’m taking this term gun desert. They’re trying to create gun deserts. Making it extremely hard to get a firearm. Because they know they can’t win on the legislation and our rights, so now they’re just going to sue our rights away by going after the very people.

Evan Nappen 33:26

And what’s interesting, one of the regs being put forward, actually a combination of them, federally, will, and I haven’t read the text, but apparently, what they’re looking to do is have the 4473 computerized. Then you’ll be able to purchase a gun online, and the firearm can actually be delivered to your door. Now, I don’t know how that might work under New Jersey state law, probably not able to do it. But in many, many states, it will be feasible if it first goes through a dealer. They’ve recently allowed guns to be shipped even via the post office. Of course, it’s regulated how to do it, but there was at one point a complete ban. That’s no longer the case.

Evan Nappen 34:20

And if they get this electronically set up and they change the rules, they can allow it. Right now, for example, you can buy a suppressor and have it go directly to your door. They’ve set up a network of dealers in suppressor-legal states. These companies like Silencer Central, etc, they’re able to process your NFA form online. They have an interface to the e-forms for the federal government. You can do the prints by way of a computer, and then once everything gets approved, you’re literally mailed your suppressor to your door. Now, of course, not in New Jersey. New Jersey has a state ban on suppressors, but that is currently being challenged as to its constitutionality. So, this is where we’re at. There is still good hope. I still am optimistic, seeing these fundamental changes take place federally, and we’re seeing victories politically still happening. The fight is full bore in the courts. Don’t lose hope. We are winning slowly but surely. We’re gaining ground in many of these areas, even though these Page – 13 – of 14

problems are still there that need to be addressed. But the good news is it is a new day when it comes to the ability to have the tools to fight for rights.

Evan Nappen 36:06

And that’s something I’ve seen over four decades of gun law practice, my friends. I see it. I remember way back when I started, you couldn’t even find a law journal article that spoke about the individual right to keep and bear arms. And frankly, thanks to the NRA, let’s give credit where credit is due. Early on, they pushed the academic side of researching the truth about our Second Amendment rights, and that became critical in the Heller decision and decisions that have followed from Heller. Having that depth of historic scholarly research on our rights, which 40 years ago didn’t exist, did not exist, because it had been suppressed and ignored. Look, I started my practice with a very you know, I became an attorney, and I had the honor of working for the very first firearm law firm in America, which was Benenson, Kates & Hardy. There was no such thing prior to that of a firearm law firm. And back in those days, you know, another attorney would ask, what kind of law do you practice? I’d say, you know, firearm law. They go, what? What do you mean firearm law? They wouldn’t even know what it was. Couldn’t even wrap their head around it.

Evan Nappen 37:44

And now, of course, with the Supreme Court decisions and this growth of challenges, etc, you see a completely different view and understanding of what firearm law means and its importance, and the practice of gun law is accepted. I remember at one point in the old Red Book, they called it, where they list lawyers by categories. And I said, hey, I want a listing of firearm law. They said, we don’t have firearm law. I said well make the category firearm law, because it even exist as a practice area, right that you would focus on for your practice. So there’s been a lot of advancement. The fight is, of course, on, but this is, this is where we are. It is interesting looking back and seeing and I do believe that we will succeed. We will succeed. Truth is on our side. Truth is absolutely on our side, and the day when we no longer have to be victims, but can be defenders, and not just our right to keep their arms being respected, but our right to self defense being respected, because that too is protected by the Second Amendment our right to defense. And don’t take that lightly, because throughout the rest of the world, particularly in the formerly Great Britain, use a gun to defend yourself. You get arrested, charged and prosecuted for using a firearm to defend yourself, right? That’s where our rights are critical, not just having the hardware to do it, but also the legal and lawful ability to do it, and our self defense laws, though, still need to be changed and worked on. Matter of fact, Teddy, we were talking about that, weren’t we?

Teddy Nappen 39:56

Yeah, one of the big things we were discussing as well as back from the previous podcast. One of the previous episodes, we were talking about the right of defense of property. I felt that there should be a change in the law. I know you always said “life wins over property”, but.

Evan Nappen 40:16

It does. Page – 14 – of 14

Teddy Nappen 40:16

There needs to be. Correct. But there needs to be a deterrence, because right now, heavy amounts of robberies, car jack, like carjacking, the car theft. It’s one of those where I always looked at Jeff Cooper’s quote. I always think to that quote. The criminal does not fear the police. The criminal does not fear the courts. The criminal must learn to fear the victim. That is the only way I can see us solving this issue of crime. To deter the individuals. Knowing, oh, my G-d, if I do this, I might get my head blown off.

Evan Nappen 40:56

So, you’re right, and that brings us to the GOFU. The GOFU, of course, is the Gun Owner Fuck Up. We look at mistakes and things to be very concerned about, where others have paid a dear price. And that is important when it comes to self-defense. Because self-defense in the law is known as justification for the use of force. And what a lot of folks don’t realize is that self-defense or justification for the use of force is an affirmative defense. And when something is an affirmative defense in law, it means the burden of proof initially shifts to the defendant. So, if you use force, deadly force, if you use that even though you may say, hey, it was self-defense, the burden of proof is on you to be able to prove that you were reasonable. And that reasonableness of your force gets determined by those 12 people who aren’t smart enough to avoid jury duty. So, you better be very reasonable. And the problem is if you depart from that knowledge where you are essentially guilty until proven innocent, and you better realize that if you pull that trigger, the burden of proof is, under our current laws, on you.

Evan Nappen 42:35

Now, that’s not everywhere, believe it or not. In Florida, for example, they have put that burden back on the state initially before they can even proceed with the prosecution. They first have to demonstrate that you were not justified in using force, at least to the degree of making their initial charges. But in New Jersey and most other states, it is still an affirmative defense, where, in essence, you’re guilty until proven innocent. Make sure you know the self-defense laws. Make sure that your fear was reasonable. Make sure it was justified under the laws. Because, if not, you’re going to pay a very steep price.

Evan Nappen 43:29

Hey, this is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens.

Speaker 2 43:40

Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state.

Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets.

Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News.

As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists.

He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America.

[email protected]

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