Stuart Whatley is a writer, a Senior Editor at Project Syndicate, and the author of "Toward a Leisure Ethic," my favorite essay that I've read of the past few months. During our conversation, Stuart talks about the historic purpose of leisure and work, our culture's obsession with busyness and praise of toil, and the reason for striving towards a life of a leisure ethic: where one has control of one's time, one's energy, and where one works on projects for their own sake.

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00:00 Intro

00:57 What has been a "leisure ethic" in history?

03:51 Isn't extolling leisure a call for laziness?

09:50 The role of work and leisure in history

15:30 The shame of having an anti-work mentality

20:30 A quote from "Toward a Leisure Ethic"

26:48 A response to people who disagree with Stuart

31:57 "Enough" and how to live a life well-lived

40:05 How much we worked as hunter-gatherers

43:22 We lack models for a "leisure ethic"

48:10 Workaholism in America

51:30 Derek Sivers, money hoarders, and insatiable desires

55:00 A story from "The Psychology of Money" and how to use money