In this episode, I dive into Carrie Jenkins’ book Sad Love: Romance and the Search for Meaning. At first glance, the title might make you think it’s all about heartbreak—but what Jenkins actually offers is a fresh way of thinking about love: eudaimonic love. I talk about Jenkins’ background as a philosopher at the University of British Columbia, her creative approach to love, and why she moves beyond Aristotle’s vision of the “good life”—a vision that, surprisingly, excluded people he considered “ugly.”

Instead, Jenkins reimagines eudaimonia as “good spirits” and highlights how love is really about the environments and relationships that nurture meaning. I also unpack her critique of hedonism and the romantic ideal of being “madly in love,” showing how she reframes love as a collaborative project—about co-creating a meaningful life with another person. Along the way, I share Jenkins’ engagement with Viktor Frankl, who reminds us that “love, like happiness, cannot be pursued; it must ensue.”

If you’ve ever felt boxed in by traditional scripts around love, or you’re looking for a deeper, more authentic way to think about relationships, this conversation is for you.