Dr. Will Ryan and Dr. Matt talk with Pastor Jon Gibson about his new Book Here and Now: Finding God in the Beautiful Collision between the Head & Heart.

Jon Gibson is the lead pastor of The Point (Seymour IN - www.gotothepoint.com). He hosts a weekly podcast called Get to the Point. His wife Heather and three daughters Morgan, Marlee and Mackenzie are the joys of his life. When he isn't talking about Jesus or dreaming about the future of The Point you'll either find him at home playing board games with his family, out hiking, up in a treestand or out fishing. Jon is an avid reader, loves to play the guitar, is passionate about the Green Bay Packers and enjoys long walks on the beach.

Buy the book: https://a.co/d/g0gVZvC

Here & Now invites readers on a reflective and deeply personal journey. With poetic honesty and pastoral warmth, Jon Gibson explores the longing we all carry to experience God not only in sacred places or past stories, but right here, in the gritty and beautiful moments of our lives. Drawing from Scripture, spiritual rhythms, and his own lived experiences Jon asks what it means to follow a God who moves with us in real time. Through fire and water, silence and song, longing and love, Here & Now offers a compelling invitation: to pay attention, to stay awake, and to find that God has been closer than we ever dared believe. For the weary, the searching, and those caught in the currents of everyday life—this is a guide to rediscovering the divine presence in the present tense.

In this episode Dr. Will Ryan and Dr. Matt interview Dr. Carmen Imes on her new book Becoming God's Family: Why the Church Still Matters.

Buy the book: https://a.co/d/7WM6q7F

Does the church still matter in our modern world?

After waves of disillusionment, #churchtoo movements, and political divides, it’s easy to question the value of investing in the church. Yet Carmen Joy Imes offers a profound answer that resonates through the pages of Becoming God’s Family. Exploring the familial and communal identity of the church, Imes traces the thread of God's presence in the gathered community of faith across the entire Bible. She invites readers into a vision of the church that is rooted deeply in Scripture and speaks directly to the challenges we face today. Imes reminds us of a powerful truth―God delights in the global, intergenerational family He has created.

Through this book, you'll discover that God keeps His promises. When God’s people gather together, God shows up. Whether you’re struggling to reconnect with the church, seeking a constructive vision for its role in our world, or longing to better understand its biblical foundations, this book offers clarity, hope, and encouragement.

What you'll find in Becoming God’s Family:

• A biblical foundation: Trace the theme of God’s presence through the entire biblical text, gaining new understanding of His communal and familial design for the church.
• Modern relevance: Imes addresses the disheartening realities of scandals, political polarization, and deconstruction with a constructive and hopeful perspective.
• Engaging and accessible content: Written by Imes, a respected Old Testament scholar, the book offers rich insights while staying accessible to a wide audience.
• Encouragement for community: Discover the global and intergenerational nature of God’s family and the joy of his presence among his people.

Becoming God’s Family is perfect for students and scholars of the Bible, church members looking for renewed purpose, and anyone seeking a deeper understanding of the church's biblical foundation. Step into God’s enduring promise―when we gather as his people, he is always present. Order your copy today and rediscover why the church still matters!

Christians are called to care for the vulnerable, but churches have not always led the way in becoming places safe from abuse. Increasingly, organizations and churches are recognizing the importance of the field of safeguarding: training and equipping people to prevent abuse, act when abuse happens, and promote healing for survivors.

Lisa Compton and Taylor Patterson have edited the first textbook on safeguarding designed specifically for faith-based ministries, churches, and seminaries. In Skills for Safeguarding, experts from universities around the world have contributed on topics in their areas of expertise. This book

• provides an understanding of trauma and abuse from a Christian integration perspective;
• gives insight into perpetrator dynamics and systems that enable abuse;
• teaches skills necessary to interact with victims and their families;
• includes questions for self-reflection and discussion; and more. 

Safeguarders can be individuals hired by the church in a vocational role, but they can also be pastors and other church leaders, laypeople, mental health professionals, and anyone who desires to promote a safe environment. Ideally, every adult in the church should recognize their responsibility to safeguard and seek to grow in skills to better serve abuse survivors and cultivate a culture that protects the vulnerable. This book provides the essential starting place.

Buy the book: https://a.co/d/bBHkla0

Grow in Your Leadership Calling Through the Example of Jesus

Discover the profound impact of spirituality on leadership with Formed to Lead, a compelling exploration of how the Holy Spirit shapes effective leaders. Guided by Jason Jensen, a seasoned leader in spiritual foundations, Formed to Lead takes you through an inspiring narrative that bridges divine guidance and practical leadership. 

You'll uncover the nature of Christian leadership by examining Jesus' leadership in Luke 3-4. Each chapter offers insights into the temptations of leadership, learning humility through discipleship, and encountering God in vulnerability. With group Bible studies and discussion questions, it’s perfect for individuals or groups seeking a deeper and more faith-driven approach to leadership. 

Formed to Lead shows leaders how to: 

• examine how a combination of tender humility and bold faith enhance faithful Christian leadership 
• explore the connection between spiritual discipline and strong leadership qualities 
• learn strategies to overcome common leadership challenges by drawing from Jesus' example 
• discern the Holy Spirit’s movement in your own growth and in your leadership calling 
• reflect on personal leadership journeys through guided discussion questions 

Ideal for readers of Ruth Haley Barton and Henri Nouwen, Formed to Lead is a guide for aspiring leaders committed to following Jesus’ example. Join a community of like-minded individuals who are reshaping leadership through spirituality. Transform your approach and lead with humility, character, integrity, and discernment by reading Formed to Lead.

Buy the book: https://a.co/d/3JO6um9

Website: https://formedtolead.com

In this class Dr. Matt covers topics in Revelation 16-22. At the end of the episode he is joined for a Q&R session with Pastor Jon Gibson of The Point (Seymour IN www.gotothepoint.com)

Topics covered:

- The Characteristics of Babylon 

- Armageddon 

- Gog and Magog

-The Millennium 

-The Final Judgement

-The New Creation 

In this class Dr. Matt covers Revelation 12-15. Topics covered:- The Dragon-The Beasts-The Mark of the Beast-The Number of the Beast 666/616-The Mark of The Lamb-The WinepressConclusions:The first Beast in Revelation is Rome, but it is more than Rome. It is all who embody the Beast in every generation.The second Beast is Nero, but it is more than Nero. It is all who embody Nero and the way of the first Beast in every generation.All Empires are controlled by the hostile spiritual powers of Satan.The church is to have an Exile mindset in this age (Jeremiah 29:4-11)How do we slay the Dragon? With a whole life witness that mirrors the life of Jesus!

In this class Dr. Matt gives an overview of Revelation 4-11 showing the way that the church wins is by following the way and witness of the Lamb!Revelation 4:1-11Who is God?V8• Holy, holy holy- the set apart one• Lord, God Almighty- the sovereign one• Who was and is and is to come- the eternal oneV11• Creator• Sustainer“Flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder.”1. Seals = Revelation 8:52. Trumpets = Revelation 11:193. Bowls = Revelation 16:18Even when the world seems like it is spinning out of control, God is in control.Revelation 5• Lion of Judah- Gen 49:9-10• Root of David- Isaiah 11:1• Revelation uses “hearing” and “seeing” to interpret images and flip their meanings.• Jesus rules as a lamb (Rev 5:6)- Power under vs. Power over (Babylon)God’s wrath• God’s character: Exodus 34:6-7• God’s anger in the Bible is His removal of protection and handing people over to naturalconsequences of their choices.• Romans 1:18-32The “Judgements”Seals (Revelation 6:1-17, 8:1-2)Come = reveal yourselfSeals 1 and 2: The Pax Romana (false peace through violence/strength)Seal 3: Economic injustice of Rome.Seal 4: conquest → war → famine → death (Zech 1:8-17; 6:1-8; 2:6)Seal 5: KEY QUESTION: What happens to Christians in the middle of this Roman conquest?ANSWER: Christians die—and that’s how we win (witness). And the prayers of God’s peopleimpact heaven.Seal 6: Lights out for Empire (Isaiah 13:9-10; Ezek 32:7-8; Isaiah 34:4-5; Amos 8:9; Psalm 18)Seal 7: Eschatological peace (and the 7 trumpets)Trumpets (Rev 8:2-9:21, 11:15-19)The judgement is 1/3- still partial (Rev 12:12)Trumpets were used to warn and to worship in the OTThe Trumpets echo the 10 plagues of the ExodusThe purpose of the Exodus:1. Expose – to expose the gods and judge them2. Unveil – to unveil God’s glory and grace3. Repent – to lead God’s enemies to repentance (Rev 9:21)• The goal of the trumpets is to unveil evil, empire, and satan’s kingdom for what it is.• In the trumpets hell imploding on itself, this is not God being vindictive. Hell attacks its own here, itknows no loyalty or fidelity. You get the consequences of what you attach yourself to.• God is different, even when they refuse to repent from allegiance with Kingdom of Satan, God stillpursues His creation.Bowls (Rev 16:1-21)If the seals expose empire’s logic and the trumpets warn of its consequences, the bowls show evil collapsing under its own weight.Key Point: The bowls show the inevitable end of Empire and Evil—it destroys itself.The InterludesBetween the 6th and 7th in each of the 3 cycles there is an interlude which explains what God’s peopleare called to know and do.Seals Interlude (Rev 7:1-17)The message of the Seals= You are spiritually secure!• John hears 144,000 but sees every tribe, tongue, and nation worshipping the Lamb= the church• The Q: Who can stand? The Answer: God’s people can!Trumpets Interlude (Rev 10:1-11:14)The message of the Trumpets= Go witness! (like the faithful witness Rev 1:5)• 2 witnesses- killed in Jerusalem, dead for 3 days, came back to life, ascended to heaven = Jesus,but it is also the church (his body).• Olive tree and Lamp stand (Zech 4:14): This was the priest and king (Jesus) but in Revelation thechurch is a kingdom and priests to God (Ex 19:6; Rev 1:5-6; Rev 5:9-10; Rev 20:6) and the churchesare called lamp stands- we hold the light (Jesus- Rev 1:12-13. 20; Rev 2:1,5; Rev 21:23; Matt 5:16;John 8:12, 9:5, 12:46)Bowls Interlude (Rev 16:15)The message of the Bowls= Witness by what you do (deeds matter)!• White Clothes = deeds and purity (Rev 19:8; 2:4; 3:2; 14:13; 22:12)• To 5 of 7 church Jesus says “I know your deeds”• What we do (and don’t do) matters!We do not own the rights to the Revelation 1-11 video by Bible project and are using is with permission.

This is a recording of a 4 week class Dr. Matt is teaching on the letter of Revelation at The Point (www.gotothepoint.com).

What lenses do you read Revelation with? Revelation 1:1

The letter of Revelation is the revelation of Jesus Christ, not a revelation of fear and speculation about the the end of the world.

Interpretive Assumptions and Mistakes
Assumption #1: Revelation is primarily about the “end times”.

Assumption #2: What Revelation reveals is a chronological roadmap of the future. 

Assumption #3: Revelation is about us.

How to avoid interpretive mistakes…

Step 1: Consider the literary context

Genre

Epistle (Rev 1:4, 1:11; Rev 2-3)

• The Bible (and Revelation) was not written to us, but it was written for us. 

Prophecy (Rev 1:3, Rev 19:10)

• 17% of the time the words “prophecy”, “prophesy”, or “to prophesy” are used, the verses are in the context of a prediction. (Often about judgement events that will come if people don’t repent)
• 83% of the time the words “prophecy”, “prophesy”, and “to prophesy” refer to something else besides prediction. 

Prophecy does 3 things… It reveals: 

• Who God is
• What God desires
• What God demands from His people

Apocalypse 

There are 404 verses in Revelation which contain over 800 Old Testament allusions. So, we must understand the Old Testament to interpret Revelation correctly. 

Apocalyptic genre is like a political cartoon. It is the writing of oppressed people under the foot of the empire. Apocalypses are overtly political and are meant to critique to governments of this world and call God’s people to faithful allegiance to the kingdom of God. 

Step 2: Know the historical context 

Struggle and Conflict in Revelation: Kingdom of God vs. Kingdom of Satan, Jesus followers vs. unbelieving Jews, Empire vs. The Church, Truth vs. lies

Team Lamb or Team Dragon?

Revelation 1

Jesus reveals God to us 

Jesus reveals us to us

You don’t just read Revelation, it reads you!

• Revelation will reveal the God you worship or your cultural assumptions about God. We become like the god(s) we worship
• Let Jesus unveil God and His character to us (The Jesus of Revelation shouldn’t look different than the Jesus of the gospels or the Sermon on the Mount)

7 Churches (Revelation 2-3)

Summary:

As a letter, Revelation was written to seven real churches, which implies that its message was understandable to its original readers. As an apocalypse, Revelation uses symbolic language to reveal a God’s-eye perspective for the encouragement of Christians living in Caesar’s empire. And as a prophecy, Revelation warns the churches against idolatry (Rev 2:14–15). This makes sense given how idols and temples peppered the Asian landscape.

Revelation encourages Christians to remain faithful in trials (Rev 2:10, 13). It’s no wonder that Revelation would include this, as the threat of persecution was constant.

Revelation tells the story of how Satan has inspired an evil, beastly kingdom but that one day the Lamb will rescue the world from it (Rev 12–13; 17–22). That such a story is included is not at all surprising given that the message of the idolatrous empire was etched on every official document and ingrained on every temple.

Revelation identifies two groups of people who have been marked out as either Lamb people or Beast people (Rev 7; 13–14). This makes perfect sense because, in the first century, there was only one choice: pledge loyalty to either Christ or Caesar.

Dr. Ryan and Dr. Matt have a conversation with Dave Ripper about his new book Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus: Reading the Bible like Dallas Willard .

Bio:

Dave Ripper is the lead pastor of Crossway Christian Church, a multi-congregational church in southern New Hampshire focused on spiritual formation. He earned a Doctor of Ministry in spiritual direction from Fuller Theological Seminary and the Martin Institute for Christianity and Culture and Dallas Willard Research Center at Westmont College. He’s the author of “Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus: Reading the Bible like Dallas Willard and coauthor of The Fellowship of the Suffering.”

About the Book:

Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus offers a unique pathway to deeper spiritual engagement, using Dallas Willard's revolutionary approach to reading the Bible. More than a study tool, Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus invites you to transform your encounters with Scripture from mere information gathering to profound spiritual experiences. Using primary source material and insights from Willard, Dave Ripper takes you on an immersive exploration of Scripture that mirrors the intellect of a philosopher and the heart of a mystic.

You'll find experiential exercises designed to prompt reflection and foster enriching group conversations, helping you not just to read, but to truly know the God of the Bible. Perfect for pastors, ministry leaders, and spiritual seekers shaped by voices like Eugene Peterson and Richard Foster, Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus offers a call to experience God’s presence in new and vibrant ways.

Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus is a valuable resource for anyone seeking to deepen their understanding and connection with Scripture as a disciple of Jesus. It offers practical tools, insights, and exercises that can be applied both individually and in group settings. By incorporating the teachings of Dallas Willard, Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus provides a unique perspective on reading the Bible that goes beyond simple information gathering.

Buy the book: https://a.co/d/4IN81Nz

Dr. Will Ryan and Dr. Matt are back! In this episode we discuss an article we wrote on expedition 44's website about what the Bible tells us about the fall of spiritual beings, specifically in the Genesis 1-3 narrative.

read the article here: https://expedition44.com/2025/05/02/did-satan-and-the-other-spiritual-beings-fall/