Find Your Freaks

Why some communities become collaborative while others turn territorial, and what that reveals about belonging

Some communities feel expansive. People share resources freely, celebrate each other’s wins, and welcome newcomers like there is enough room for everyone. Other spaces feel guarded. Information gets hoarded, collaboration feels performative, and every new voice quietly registers as competition.

In this solo episode, Tonya Kubo explores why that difference is rarely about whether people are “good” or “bad” and almost always about structure. Using examples from fiction writing communities, nonfiction publishing, online business spaces, and personal development ecosystems, Tonya breaks down how scarcity shapes behavior and how communities unintentionally teach people whether to connect or protect themselves.

This episode digs into the emotional architecture behind collaboration, competition, trust, and belonging. Why do some spaces naturally create generosity while others create defensiveness? Why do people become territorial when identity, expertise, or authority are tied to success? And what happens when communities reward visibility, curiosity, and shared discovery instead of exclusivity?

More than anything, this conversation is an invitation to stop asking whether people are “engaged enough” and start asking what behaviors the space itself rewards. Because communities do not become collaborative by accident. They become collaborative when safety, generosity, and contribution are intentionally reinforced.

You’ll hear how:

• Fiction communities often feel more collaborative because success is additive, not mutually exclusive
• Scarcity changes how people share knowledge, support others, and respond to newcomers
• Nonfiction communities become more territorial when trust is tied to the creator instead of the idea
• Community structure teaches members how to behave, whether intentionally or not
• Psychological safety creates generosity while fear creates defensiveness
• Rewarding collaboration publicly changes the emotional temperature of a space
• Belonging grows when people stop treating each other like threats
• Ambition and collaboration do not have to exist in opposition to each other

[01:15] The difference between communities that feel like potlucks versus cage matches

[03:40] Why fiction ecosystems naturally encourage collaboration

[07:10] How nonfiction spaces tie trust to authority and identity

[10:45] Why self-help and business communities often become more territorial

[14:20] The role scarcity plays in shaping community behavior

[17:05] Why plagiarism fears feel more personal in nonfiction spaces

[20:10] How communities teach members what behaviors are rewarded

[23:15] The connection between psychological safety and generosity

[26:00] Why belonging grows when people stop treating each other like threats

[28:05] The question every community leader should ask about their space

• Episode 024 – Interview with Michelle Chouinard
• Clutter-Free Academy by Kathi Lipp
• The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up by Marie Kondo

Tonya Kubo is a community strategist, marketing consultant, and rebel with a cause: helping people find the place where they truly belong. For nearly two decades, she’s built online spaces that feel less like comment sections and more like chosen family. She’s the fixer you call when your Facebook group has gone straight-up Lord of the Flies and the bouncer at the door of internet nonsense. As the host of Find Your Freaks, Tonya brings together unconventional thinkers and bridge-builders who know “normal” was never the point. Her favorite spaces? The ones where the freak flags fly high.

If Find Your Freaks matters to you, help us keep it ad-free by buying us a coffee (or two!). Every dollar goes to production so more weirdos can find their people.

You can purchase Find Your Freaks merchandise online through Abilities and Attitudes.

• Facebook Group
• LinkedIn
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• Podcast Hub

Next time, Tonya Kubo sits down with Dr. Catrina Mitchum to explore why accessibility is not just a compliance issue — it’s the foundation of belonging. Together, they unpack what it really means to create online spaces where people can fully participate, connect, and thrive.

What happens when the people around you stop feeling like competitors and start feeling like collaborators?

There’s a stereotype about writers that most of us recognize immediately: the guarded creative protecting their ideas because success feels limited. And in some spaces, that mindset makes sense. When opportunities feel scarce, people naturally become more protective.

But in this episode of Find Your Freaks, Tonya Kubo sits down with bestselling thriller author M.M. Chouinard to explore what happens when a community operates differently. In the mystery writing world Michelle inhabits, success often feels additive rather than competitive. Readers recommend authors to each other. Writers cheer each other on. Collaboration becomes part of the culture instead of a threat to it.

Together, Tonya and Michelle unpack how the structure of a community shapes the way people connect, share, and belong. Michelle also shares her path from developmental psychology and academia into thriller writing, along with the role fandom, creativity, and online connection have played in her life and career.

At its core, this episode asks an important question for community builders: Are people naturally territorial, or are they responding to environments that taught them success is mutually exclusive?

• Why some communities naturally encourage collaboration while others create competition
• How scarcity changes the way people connect and share with each other
• The unique culture of the mystery writing and reading world
• Michelle’s transition from academia and developmental psychology into thriller writing
• The role fandom plays in creating belonging and identity
• Why readers often become the bridge between creators rather than gatekeepers
• How creative communities shape the emotional experience of success
• What community leaders can learn from environments where generosity thrives

[03:45] Michelle’s journey from psychology professor to bestselling thriller author

[09:20] Why mystery readers rarely stop at just one author

[15:10] How abundance thinking changes the culture inside creative communities

[22:35] The emotional difference between collaborative and competitive spaces

[29:40] Why fandom creates connection faster than traditional networking

[36:15] The hidden pressures creators feel when success seems limited

[42:05] What community builders misunderstand about scarcity and behavior

[47:10] Why belonging grows faster in spaces where people openly share opportunities

M.M. Chouinard is an Edgar Award–nominated bestselling author known for weaving psychology, suspense, and human complexity into gripping thrillers. She is the author of The Serial-Killer Guide to San Francisco series, the Detective Jo Fournier thriller series, and the standalone psychological thriller The Vacation. Before becoming a full-time author, Michelle earned a Ph.D. in developmental psychology from Stanford University and served as a founding faculty member at University of California, Merced. When she’s not writing dark and twisty stories, she enjoys caffeine in all forms, amateur genealogy, crafting, baking, and absolutely anything related to Halloween.

Tonya Kubo is a community strategist, writer, and rebel with a cause: helping people find the place where they truly belong. She’s spent nearly two decades building online spaces that feel more like chosen family than comment sections, and she’s not afraid to call out the fluff in favor of real connection. As the founder of Find Your Freaks, Tonya brings together unconventional thinkers, builders, and bridge-makers who believe that “normal” was never the point. When she’s not hosting the show, she’s raising two daughters, leading client communities, and making meaning out of the mess.

• “When success feels limited, people protect themselves. When success feels expansive, people start pulling others in.”
• “Readers don’t usually want one good book. They want a whole shelf full of authors they can trust.”
• “Community changes when people stop seeing each other as obstacles and start seeing each other as possibilities.”
• “Scarcity doesn’t just shape money. It shapes behavior, trust, and belonging.”

• M.M. Chouinard Official Website
• The Serial-Killer Guide to San Francisco Series
• Detective Jo Fournier Series
• The Vacation
• Edgar Awards

If Find Your Freaks matters to you, consider buying us a coffee to keep the show ad-free. Every dollar supports production so more weirdos can find their people.

Find Your Freaks merchandise is available through Abilities and Attitudes.

• Facebook Group
• LinkedIn
• Instagram
• Podcast Hub

In the next episode, Tonya explores why some communities naturally foster collaboration while others create competition and territorial behavior. Drawing from this conversation with Michelle, she unpacks how scarcity shapes the way people connect, share opportunities, and decide whether it feels safe to truly belong.

Why people don’t stop hiding because they want to, but because it finally feels safe to be seen.

Most communities don’t fail because people stop caring.

They fail because too much care is required from too few people.

In this solo episode, Tonya Kubo explores what actually makes a community sustainable and why the traditional, leader-centered model quietly sets communities up to collapse. What looks like strong leadership often creates hidden fragility, where everything depends on one person showing up, holding it together, and carrying the weight.

Drawing on Stacey’s real-world example from a military spouse community, Tonya breaks down what happens when belonging is built into the structure instead of assigned as a responsibility. Instead of hosting and managing every event, Stacey’s model distributes ownership, allowing members to create, lead, and sustain connection themselves.

Tonya also challenges one of the most common assumptions in community-building: that disengagement is caused by apathy. In reality, it is often the opposite. People care, but when the burden is too high or the ownership is not shared, they step back instead of stepping in.

If your community feels dependent on you, or if you have ever wondered whether what you are building could last without you, this episode offers a powerful reframe of what it takes to create something that actually endures.

You’ll hear how:

• Communities don’t fail from apathy, but from uneven distribution of labor
• Burnout in leadership is often a design flaw, not a personal failure
• Self-sustaining communities differ from self-running ones
• Stacey’s model distributes ownership without losing structure
• Communities built around personality are inherently fragile
• Purpose-driven communities create continuity beyond the founder
• Delegating tasks is not the same as transferring ownership
• Shared responsibility creates stronger, more resilient belonging

[01:40] The realization that Tonya had been wearing a mask without noticing

[03:50] Why we hold back when something doesn’t feel “worth the effort”

[06:30] The difference between fitting in and actually being seen

[08:45] The shift that happened after discovering Ellie Trier’s work

[11:10] The story of a friend whose honesty revealed something deeper

[13:50] What happens when someone doesn’t try to fix or reframe your truth

[16:20] Why you can’t force someone to remove their mask

[18:30] How safety changes the cost of being honest

[20:40] What it looks like to model real acceptance

[22:10] The invitation to show up fully so others can do the same

• Episode 022 – Neurospicy and Never Alone with Eli Trier
• Zuzu’s House of Cats

Tonya Kubo is a community strategist, marketing consultant, and rebel with a cause: helping people find the place where they truly belong. For nearly two decades, she’s built online spaces that feel less like comment sections and more like chosen family. She’s the fixer you call when your Facebook group has gone straight-up Lord of the Flies and the bouncer at the door of internet nonsense. As the host of Find Your Freaks, Tonya brings together unconventional thinkers and bridge-builders who know “normal” was never the point. Her favorite spaces? The ones where the freak flags fly high.

If Find Your Freaks matters to you, help us keep it ad-free by buying us a coffee (or two!). Every dollar goes to production so more weirdos can find their people.

You can purchase Find Your Freaks merchandise online through Abilities and Attitudes.

• Facebook Group
• LinkedIn
• Instagram
• Podcast Hub

We love to talk about community. How to build it, grow it, sustain it. But next time, we’re going somewhere a little unexpected. Tonya sits down with bestselling mystery author Michelle Chouinard to explore the minds of people who obsess over red herrings, stay up all night chasing clues, and cannot rest until they solve the puzzle. But this conversation is not just about mystery writing. It is about curiosity, connection, and the way stories bring people together.

What if the thing that makes you feel like an outsider is actually the key to real belonging?

We spend a lot of time talking about how to build community — how to grow it, structure it, and sustain it. But we don’t talk nearly enough about what it feels like to be the person on the outside of it. The one who doesn’t quite fit, who feels like “too much,” or who has learned to edit themselves just to stay in the room.

In this episode of Find Your Freaks, Tonya Kubo sits down with Eli Trier — artist, writer, and self-described “dopamine dealer” — to explore what it means to live as an outsider and how that experience can become the foundation for something powerful. As a neuroqueer, AuDHD creator, Eli doesn’t just make art. She creates spaces where people who have always felt different finally feel seen and understood.

Eli shares how years of feeling “too much” shaped her work and her perspective on belonging. Instead of trying to fit into spaces that never quite worked, she began building her own — spaces where otherness isn’t something to hide, but something to celebrate.

Together, they challenge a common assumption about community: that belonging comes from fitting in. Because in the end, real belonging isn’t about being tolerated. It’s about being recognized.

• What it actually feels like to move through the world as an outsider
• The hidden cost of trying to “pass” as normal
• Why being “too much” is often a context problem, not a personal flaw
• How Eli uses art to create emotional refuge and recognition
• The difference between being included and truly belonging
• What community builders get wrong about inclusion
• How showing up fully creates permission for others to do the same

[03:15] Why Eli’s “freaks” are the weird, creative, non-traditional souls

[09:40] What it means to be neuroqueer and AuDHD in a world built for sameness

[17:20] The experience of being “too much” and learning to self-edit

[26:10] Why fitting in can feel safer… but costs more than we think

[34:45] How Eli’s art creates a sense of recognition and belonging

[42:30] The difference between inclusion and true belonging

[51:00] Why community builders need to rethink what “safe space” actually means

[1:02:15] The power of showing up fully and going first

Elinor Trier is a neuroqueer AuDHD artist, writer, podcaster, YouTuber, dopamine dealer, and founder of Elinor Trier Studio and Zuzu’s Haus of Cats, where she creates artwork that celebrates “otherness,” reminding you that you’re not the “odd one out,” you’re “one of a kind.” Her work lives in private collections worldwide and has been featured in multiple media outlets, including the Nautilus Silver Award-winning book Creatrix: She Who Makes. She reads ten books a week, snorts when she laughs, and might actually be a pile of cats in a sparkly trench coat.

Tonya Kubo is a community strategist, writer, and rebel with a cause: helping people find the place where they truly belong. She’s spent nearly two decades building online spaces that feel more like chosen family than comment sections, and she’s not afraid to call out the fluff in favor of real connection. As the founder of Find Your Freaks, Tonya brings together unconventional thinkers, builders, and bridge-makers who believe that “normal” was never the point. When she’s not hosting the show, she’s raising two daughters, leading client communities, and making meaning out of the mess.

• “You’re not the odd one out. You’re one of a kind.” — Eli Trier
• “Being ‘too much’ usually just means you’re in the wrong room.” — Eli Trier
• “Belonging isn’t about being tolerated. It’s about being recognized.” — Eli Trier
• “The goal isn’t to become more palatable. It’s to find the places where you already make sense.” — Eli Trier

• Elinor Trier Studio
• Zuzu’s Haus of Cats
• Creatrix: She Who Makes

If Find Your Freaks matters to you, consider buying us a coffee to keep the show ad-free. Every dollar supports production so more weirdos can find their people.

Find Your Freaks merchandise is available through Abilities and Attitudes.

• Facebook Group
• LinkedIn
• Instagram
• Podcast Hub

The spaces that feel safest aren’t the ones where everyone fits in. In the next episode, Tonya explores what it really means to go first, why being the “freakiest” one in the room sets the tone for everyone else, and how showing up fully creates the kind of permission real belonging is built on.

Why the strongest communities aren’t built around leadership but around shared ownership

Most communities don’t fail because people stop caring.

They fail because too much care is required from too few people.

In this solo episode, Tonya Kubo explores what actually makes a community sustainable and why the traditional, leader-centered model quietly sets communities up to collapse. What looks like strong leadership often creates hidden fragility, where everything depends on one person showing up, holding it together, and carrying the weight.

Drawing on Stacey’s real-world example from a military spouse community, Tonya breaks down what happens when belonging is built into the structure instead of assigned as a responsibility. Instead of hosting and managing every event, Stacey’s model distributes ownership, allowing members to create, lead, and sustain connection themselves.

Tonya also challenges one of the most common assumptions in community-building: that disengagement is caused by apathy. In reality, it is often the opposite. People care, but when the burden is too high or the ownership is not shared, they step back instead of stepping in.

If your community feels dependent on you, or if you have ever wondered whether what you are building could last without you, this episode offers a powerful reframe of what it takes to create something that actually endures.

You’ll hear how:

• Communities don’t fail from apathy, but from uneven distribution of labor
• Burnout in leadership is often a design flaw, not a personal failure
• Self-sustaining communities differ from self-running ones
• Stacey’s model distributes ownership without losing structure
• Communities built around personality are inherently fragile
• Purpose-driven communities create continuity beyond the founder
• Delegating tasks is not the same as transferring ownership
• Shared responsibility creates stronger, more resilient belonging

[02:00] The question that reveals whether your community is built to last

[06:30] Why communities don’t actually fail from apathy

[12:15] How Stacey’s model distributes ownership from the start

[18:40] What happens when everything depends on one leader

[25:10] The difference between self-sustaining and self-running communities

[31:45] Why personality-driven communities are fragile

[38:20] How purpose creates continuity beyond the founder

[45:00] Delegation vs. true ownership and why it matters

[51:30] One simple shift to start redistributing responsibility

[57:00] The question every community leader needs to answer

• Episode 020 – Interview with Stacey Morgan
• Margaret Marcuson, Sustainable Ministry
• The Secret to Thriving Online Communities (Facebook Group)
• Clutter-Free Academy by Kathi Lipp

Tonya Kubo is a community strategist, marketing consultant, and rebel with a cause: helping people find the place where they truly belong. For nearly two decades, she’s built online spaces that feel less like comment sections and more like chosen family. She’s the fixer you call when your Facebook group has gone straight-up Lord of the Flies and the bouncer at the door of internet nonsense. As the host of Find Your Freaks, Tonya brings together unconventional thinkers and bridge-builders who know “normal” was never the point. Her favorite spaces? The ones where the freak flags fly high.

If Find Your Freaks matters to you, help us keep it ad-free by buying us a coffee (or two!). Every dollar goes to production so more weirdos can find their people.

You can purchase Find Your Freaks merchandise online through Abilities and Attitudes.

• Facebook Group
• LinkedIn
• Instagram
• Podcast Hub

Tonya sits down with Eli Trier, an artist, writer, podcaster, and self-described dopamine dealer whose work is a love letter to weirdos and misfits. As a neuroqueer, AuDHD creator, Eli shares what it means to build spaces where being different is not just accepted, but celebrated—and why belonging starts with making room for the outsider.

What happens when the system meant to create community quietly disappears?

For decades, military spouse networks functioned as powerful support systems. They helped families navigate deployments, relocations, and the emotional weight of military life.

But as cultural expectations changed — and the volunteer structures holding those networks together disappeared — many military families found themselves facing a new challenge: isolation.

In this episode of Find Your Freaks, Tonya Kubo sits down with Stacey Morgan, a U.S. Army spouse of 25 years and leadership coach with The MomCo, to explore what happens when community breaks down and how everyday people can rebuild it.

Stacey shares how moving to a new duty station revealed just how fractured military spouse networks had become. Instead of waiting for someone else to fix it, she and two other spouses created a radically simple model for rebuilding community: no dues, no drama, and member-led interest groups.

Their approach flips traditional leadership models upside down and reminds us of something simple but powerful: Community isn’t something we consume. It’s something we create.

And sometimes the bravest thing you can do is go first.

1. Why traditional military spouse support networks have collapsed in many places
2. How isolation impacts military families and even military retention
3. The surprising role community plays in resilience during deployments
4. Stacey’s radically simple model for rebuilding community
5. Why waiting to be rescued keeps people lonely
6. How small interest groups can spark real connection
7. The courage it takes to introduce yourself first

[02:10] Why Stacey’s “freaks” are military spouses and the unique bond they share

[08:30] How traditional military spouse support systems quietly fell apart

[15:00] Why community connection impacts military family retention

[26:00] The hidden gaps created when volunteer support systems disappeared

[33:00] Stacey’s new model for community: “No dues, no drama”

[41:30] How small interest groups spark real connection

[53:00] The story behind Stacey’s book The Astronaut’s Wife

[1:03:00] The life lesson that changed everything: no one is coming to rescue you

[1:07:20] Where to start if you want to build community in your own life

Stacey Morgan is an Army spouse of 25 years, mom of four, speaker, and author of The Astronaut’s Wife: How Launching My Husband into Outer Space Changed the Way I Live on Earth. Stacey serves on staff with The MomCo as an executive leadership coach, membership manager, and lead for military and online groups. She and her family are currently stationed at White Sands Missile Test Range in New Mexico.

Tonya Kubo is a community strategist, writer, and rebel with a cause: helping people find the place where they truly belong. She’s spent nearly two decades building online spaces that feel more like chosen family than comment sections, and she’s not afraid to call out the fluff in favor of real connection. As the founder of Find Your Freaks, Tonya brings together unconventional thinkers, builders, and bridge-makers who believe that “normal” was never the point. When she’s not hosting the show, she’s raising two daughters, leading client communities, and making meaning out of the mess.

1. “There’s no rescuer coming for you. And as sad as that sounds, there’s freedom in it.” — Stacey Morgan
2. “You can’t wait for someone to show up and tell you what to do. Community has to be built by the people who want it.” — Stacey Morgan
3. “The future of community has to be light, nimble, and member-led.” — Stacey Morgan
4. “Enough of this culture of complaining about what doesn’t exist. If you want it, be willing to host it.” — Stacey Morgan
5. “You have to get out of your house. No one is going to come knocking on your door.” — Stacey Morgan

1. The Astronaut’s Wife: How Launching My Husband into Outer Space Changed the Way I Live on Earth by Stacey Morgan
2. Stacey Morgan (official website)
3. The MomCo
4. Blue Star Families
5. Military Spouse Advocacy Network
6. Marco Polo App
7. Sharon McMahon

If Find Your Freaks matters to you, consider buying us a coffee to keep the show ad-free. Every dollar supports production so more weirdos can find their people.

Find Your Freaks merchandise is available through Abilities and Attitudes.

1. Facebook Group
2. LinkedIn
3. Instagram
4. Podcast Hub

The strongest communities aren’t built around one person. In the next episode, Tonya explores why the best communities are designed to survive their founders, how Stacey’s model flips leadership on its head, and what happens when belonging becomes part of the structure instead of the job description.

Why strong communities aren’t built through activity, but through shared responsibility and trust.

Most communities don’t fail because of bad content, the wrong platform, or even the wrong people.

They fail because of design.

In this solo episode, Tonya Kubo explores why many communities appear active but still feel shallow or fragile. High engagement doesn’t always mean people feel connected—and connection alone doesn’t guarantee belonging. What actually sustains a community is interdependence: the sense that members rely on one another and that their presence truly matters.

Using business strategist Gwen Bortner’s client ecosystem as a real-world example, Tonya breaks down the design decisions that create durable belonging. Instead of organizing people by stage, industry, or hierarchy, Gwen curates for shared values, protects the culture of the container early, and intentionally encourages members to rely on each other—not just on the leader.

Tonya also addresses a harder truth: communities often fail because leaders unintentionally centralize power. When everything flows through one person, the group may look lively but remains fragile. True belonging only emerges when leadership distributes trust and members become necessary to one another.

If your community feels loud but lonely, engaged but disconnected, this episode offers a powerful reframing of what it actually takes to build spaces where people matter.

You’ll hear how:

1. Communities often fail due to design, not engagement levels
2. Connection is required for belonging—but they are not the same thing
3. Belonging forms through interdependence, not proximity
4. Curating for shared values strengthens cohesion more than grouping by stage
5. Protecting the container early preserves culture later
6. Member-to-member reliance deepens trust and relational density
7. Over-centralized leadership creates dependency instead of belonging
8. Sustainable communities distribute trust and shared ownership

1. 0:00 – 4:45 Why most communities fail due to design, not engagement
2. 4:46 – 9:20 Connection vs. belonging—and why the distinction matters
3. 9:21 – 16:40 How Gwen Bortner unintentionally designed belonging into her client community
4. 16:41 – 23:10 Curating members by values instead of business stage
5. 23:11 – 28:45 Protecting the container and maintaining culture through selection
6. 28:46 – 33:30 Why member-to-member reliance creates relational density
7. 33:31 – 40:10 The danger of leader-centered communities
8. 40:11 – 46:00 When control replaces stewardship—and communities collapse
9. 46:01 – 52:30 Why belonging comes from being necessary, not visible
10. 52:31 – 57:10 Designing communities where trust transfers and leadership distributes

1. Episode 18 – Small Circle, Big Impact with Gwen Bortner
2. The Business You Really Want Podcast
3. Clutter-Free Academy by Kathi Lipp
4. Rachel Allen – Community support for spouses of incarcerated individuals
5. Nikki James Zellner – Carbon monoxide safety advocacy

Tonya Kubo is a community strategist, marketing consultant, and rebel with a cause: helping people find the place where they truly belong. For nearly two decades, she’s built online spaces that feel less like comment sections and more like chosen family. She’s the fixer you call when your Facebook group has gone straight-up Lord of the Flies and the bouncer at the door of internet nonsense. As the host of Find Your Freaks, Tonya brings together unconventional thinkers and bridge-builders who know “normal” was never the point. Her favorite spaces? The ones where the freak flags fly high.

If Find Your Freaks matters to you, help us keep it ad-free by buying us a coffee (or two!). Every dollar goes to production so more weirdos can find their people.

You can purchase Find Your Freaks merchandise online through Abilities and Attitudes.

1. Facebook Group
2. LinkedIn
3. Instagram
4. Podcast Hub

Tonya talks with Stacey Morgan, an Army spouse of 25 years, mom of four, speaker, and author of The Astronaut’s Wife. Stacey shares how launching her husband into space reshaped the way she approaches fear, leadership, and going first. Together, they explore what it means to build connection and lead with courage in communities shaped by constant change.

Why shared values matter more than size when building real community

Some freaks build massive platforms.

Stages.

Email lists.

Follower counts.

And then there are the freaks who build quietly — curating small circles rooted in shared values, deep trust, and sustainable connection.

In this episode of Find Your Freaks, Tonya Kubo sits down with business strategist and operations expert Gwen Bortner to explore what community looks like when you opt out of hype, funnels, and “bigger is better” messaging — and choose intentional depth instead.

Gwen has spent over four decades building businesses, forming networks, and supporting women entrepreneurs. And while she doesn’t run a massive membership or chase viral growth, she has cultivated something many people secretly crave: meaningful, values-driven connection that sustains itself.

Together, Tonya and Gwen unpack what makes a community truly work, why shared values matter more than shared industries, and how defining success on your own terms changes everything.

If you’ve ever felt pressure to scale bigger when what you really want is deeper — this conversation offers a grounded, confident alternative.

[04:15] Why being “smart” doesn’t mean being smart at everything

[11:30] How shared values create stronger connection than shared revenue levels

[18:40] Why curated small groups bond faster than large memberships

[24:10] The confidence required to build “small on purpose”

[31:55] Why sustainable success matters more than being the best

[39:20] What happens when communities connect independently of the leader

[46:05] How to ask better questions than “What do you do?”

[52:30] One simple shift to help you find your people offline

Gwen challenges the assumption that community must be massive to matter.

Her approach is simple but powerful: curate small groups around shared values — not shared industries, revenue levels, or status.

In her quarterly planning retreats, women from wildly different business models and financial stages gather. What binds them isn’t similarity in structure — it’s alignment in values. Creativity. Kindness. Integrity. A desire to leave the world better than they found it.

The result? A community that sustains itself — even outside the container Gwen creates.

Private chats flourish. Partnerships form. Support extends beyond the structured event.

Not because it’s engineered.

Because it’s aligned.

One of the most liberating themes in this episode is Gwen’s clarity around success.

She doesn’t chase being the biggest.

She doesn’t need to be the best.

She doesn’t measure her worth by follower counts.

Instead, she focuses on being consistently good — and building a business she can sustain without burnout.

In a world obsessed with scaling up, Gwen reminds us that confidence comes from knowing your own definition of success — and refusing to borrow someone else’s metrics.

Perhaps the most practical takeaway from this conversation is this:

If you want to find your people, stop asking what they do.

Ask what they love about what they do.

That one question reveals values. And values are the fastest way to determine alignment.

Community doesn’t form around résumés.

It forms around meaning.

Gwen Bortner is a business strategist, operations expert, and trusted advisor with more than 40 years of experience across multiple industries. She helps women entrepreneurs define what they truly want and build sustainable businesses that reflect it — without chasing trends or sacrificing themselves in the process.

You can learn more at EverydayEffectiveness.com and listen to her co-hosted podcast, The Business You Really Want.

Tonya Kubo is a community strategist and marketing consultant known for building digital spaces that feel like chosen family. As host of Find Your Freaks, she brings together unconventional thinkers who know “normal” was never the point — and who believe that belonging is built through honesty and human connection.

1. “Shared values matter more than shared industries.” — Gwen Bortner
2. “You don’t have to be the best to be consistently good.” — Gwen Bortner
3. “If it isn’t sustainable, it isn’t success.” — Gwen Bortner
4. “Confidence builds on itself.” — Gwen Bortner
5. “Ask people what they love about what they do — that’s where the real connection starts.” — Gwen Bortner

1. Everyday Effectiveness
2. The Business You Really Want Podcast
3. Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss

If Find Your Freaks matters to you, consider buying us a coffee to keep the show ad-free. Every dollar supports production so more weirdos can find their people.

Find Your Freaks merchandise is available through Abilities and Attitudes.

1. Facebook Group
2. LinkedIn
3. Instagram
4. Podcast Hub

Small circles matter. But what makes them sustainable? In the next episode, Tonya explores the hidden structural flaw inside most communities, why designing everything around the leader creates fragility, and what it takes to build belonging that can thrive long after one person steps back.

Why activity isn’t the same thing as impact—and why belonging begins where responsibility starts.

Belonging doesn’t come from being visible.

It comes from knowing that if you weren’t there, something real would be missing.

In this solo episode, Tonya Kubo reflects on a moment from her conversation with Jeff Yoshimi that wouldn’t let her go: people stay engaged when their effort actually changes something.

From that insight, Tonya unpacks a distinction many communities get wrong—the difference between participation and contribution. Liking posts, showing up to meetings, and staying active can create the appearance of belonging without ever creating real agency. And when communities confuse visibility for value, people drift—not because they don’t care, but because nothing they do seems to matter.

This episode explores why participation is safe and scalable, why contribution is risky and uneven, and why belonging forms not through sameness, but through shared responsibility. Tonya also speaks directly to community builders and leaders, examining what it ethically demands to steward spaces—especially when you’re managing communities you’re not personally part of.

If you’ve ever felt invisible in a crowded room, burned out in a highly “engaged” space, or frustrated that your efforts never seem to change the outcome, this episode names what’s really happening—and why it’s not a personal failure.

You’ll hear how:

1. Participation measures presence, but contribution changes systems
2. Visibility can be mistaken for value—and why that erodes belonging
3. People disengage when effort has no consequence
4. Belonging forms through trust, not inclusion alone
5. Uneven impact makes contribution emotionally risky
6. Communities fail when they protect comfort instead of meaning
7. Ethical community stewardship centers member agency over control
8. Belonging doesn’t require sameness—it requires responsibility

1. 0:00 – 4:30 Why engagement doesn’t equal belonging
2. 4:31 – 9:10 The insight from gaming that reframed everything
3. 9:11 – 14:45 Participation vs. contribution—and why we confuse them
4. 14:46 – 19:30 Why people drift when nothing they do matters
5. 19:31 – 25:20 The emotional risk of uneven impact
6. 25:21 – 31:40 Designing communities where effort has consequence
7. 31:41 – 38:10 Stewardship, power, and managing communities you’re not part of
8. 38:11 – 43:50 Protecting pathways for agency instead of comfort
9. 43:51 – 48:30 Why belonging is responsibility—not sameness

1. Episode 16 - Gaming Cancer: Belonging Beyond the Boundaries with Jeff Yoshimi
2. Gaming Cancer: How Building and Playing Video Games Can Accelerate Scientific Discovery by Jeff Yoshimi
3. University of California, Merced

Tonya Kubo is a community strategist, marketing consultant, and rebel with a cause: helping people find the place where they truly belong. For nearly two decades, she’s built online spaces that feel less like comment sections and more like chosen family. She’s the fixer you call when your Facebook group has gone straight-up Lord of the Flies and the bouncer at the door of internet nonsense. As the host of Find Your Freaks, Tonya brings together unconventional thinkers and bridge-builders who know “normal” was never the point. Her favorite spaces? The ones where the freak flags fly high.

If Find Your Freaks matters to you, help us keep it ad-free by buying us a coffee (or two!). Every dollar goes to production so more weirdos can find their people.

You can purchase Find Your Freaks merchandise online through Abilities and Attitudes.

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Tonya talks with Gwen Bortner, a business strategist and longtime collaborator, about creating connection outside the usual community models. No platforms, no funnels—just small, intentional relationships and what it looks like to build belonging off the grid.

How play, science, and grief come together to create unexpected community

Some freaks show up in obvious places.

Labs. Universities. Gaming consoles.

And then there are the freaks who live at the intersections — where research meets play, grief meets creativity, and community forms in unexpected ways.

In this episode of Find Your Freaks, Tonya Kubo sits down with philosopher, cognitive scientist, and systems thinker Jeff Yoshimi, a professor at University of California, Merced, to explore how video games and citizen science can do more than entertain — they can save lives.

Jeff’s book Gaming Cancer was born out of personal loss, professional curiosity, and a refusal to accept helplessness as the final answer. After cancer touched his family in devastating ways, Jeff began asking a radical question:

What if everyday people — gamers, designers, artists, marketers — could meaningfully contribute to cancer research without needing a lab coat?

Together, Tonya and Jeff explore how games tap into our deep wiring as problem-solving creatures, why motivation works differently when the challenge is the reward, and how belonging can form when people from wildly different worlds come together around a shared mission.

If you’ve ever felt powerless in the face of a massive problem — or wondered whether your skills could actually matter — this conversation offers a hopeful, grounded, and deeply human reframe.

[05:40] Why humans are wired to solve problems — and how games activate that instinct

[10:55] How game design creates intrinsic motivation (and why homework can’t compete)

[16:30] The moment Gaming Cancer was born during a sleepless night at Stanford

[22:45] Citizen science explained: how everyday players can contribute to real research

[28:10] How the RNA-design game Eterna helped advance vaccine research

[35:20] Why designers and marketers are essential to scientific progress

[41:50] What happens when grief, play, and purpose exist in the same space

[49:05] Why trying something — even without guaranteed success — still matters

[55:40] What to do if you want to help but don’t know where to start

Jeff explains that games aren’t just distractions — they’re beautifully engineered systems that reward curiosity, persistence, and creative problem-solving.

When scientific challenges are embedded into game mechanics, players can unknowingly contribute to real discoveries simply by doing what humans do best: trying to solve the puzzle in front of them.

One powerful example comes from Eterna, a game where players helped design RNA molecules — contributions that played a role in developing coronavirus vaccines stable at room temperature. That’s not hypothetical impact. That’s real science shaped by collective effort.

Cancer often leaves people searching for something they can do.

Fundraising. Awareness. Advocacy. Prevention.

Jeff suggests a fifth path: contribution through skill.

Artists can design.

Marketers can attract players.

Developers can build systems.

Gamers can play — and solve.

Instead of asking people to leave their talents behind, citizen-science games invite them to bring all of who they are into the fight.

One of the most grounding truths in this conversation is simple:

You don’t need certainty to justify action.

Jeff is clear — most scientific progress is incremental. But reframing problems through games can spark new perspectives, increase scientific literacy, and sometimes unlock breakthroughs no one could have predicted.

At the very least, everyone involved learns more. And sometimes, that’s how progress begins.

Jeff Yoshimi is a philosopher, cognitive scientist, and professor at the University of California, Merced. His work spans neural networks, visualization, and systems thinking. After cancer deeply impacted his family, Jeff wrote Gaming Cancer to explore how games, citizen science, and collective intelligence can accelerate research and restore a sense of agency in the face of overwhelming problems.

Tonya Kubo is a community strategist and marketing consultant known for building digital spaces that feel like chosen family. As host of Find Your Freaks, she brings together unconventional thinkers who know “normal” was never the point — and who believe that belonging is built through honesty and human connection.

1. “We are problem-solving creatures — games tap directly into that instinct.” — Jeff Yoshimi
2. “You don’t have to be a scientist to contribute to science.” — Jeff Yoshimi
3. “Even if it doesn’t lead directly to a cure, learning more is never wasted.” — Jeff Yoshimi
4. “Belonging can happen when very different worlds collide around a shared purpose.” — Tonya Kubo

1. Gaming Cancer — Jeff Yoshimi
2. Eterna — RNA-design citizen science game
3. Zooniverse — Citizen science platform
4. iNaturalist — Community-powered biodiversity tracking

If Find Your Freaks matters to you, consider buying us a coffee to keep the show ad-free. Every dollar supports production so more weirdos can find their people.

Find Your Freaks merchandise is available through Abilities and Attitudes.

1. Facebook Group
2. LinkedIn
3. Instagram
4. Podcast Hub

Some freaks play for fun. Others play to change the world. In this episode, Tonya explores how belonging deepens when people are invited to matter, not just participate, and what becomes possible when effort actually changes something.