Blair Pogue and Dwight Zscheile didn’t grow up in church—but the church changed their lives. Now, they’re passionate about helping others experience that same transformation.

In this episode, they reflect on the crisis of discipleship facing many churches today and how a lack of connection to local neighborhoods is both a symptom and a cause. They share how cultivating a mixed ecology through Fresh Expressions has helped break through stuck systems, and how the simple practice of listening can lead to deeper discipleship and real community transformation.