When you think of stroke, you might imagine it’s something that happens to older men. But the reality is far more complex, and far more urgent for women to understand.

Stroke is one of the leading causes of disability and death in women, and yet many women still don’t recognize the early warning signs, or they dismiss them as stress, migraines, or fatigue.

This is why stories like Chanell Havenga’s matter so much.

Chanell, an adventurous and high-achieving 35-year-old industrial psychologist from South Africa, went into a hospital for a 15-minute cortisone injection to relieve years of debilitating headaches. She never expected it would be the beginning of a long fight for her life.

What was supposed to be a simple medical procedure resulted in a massive ischemic stroke, which left her unresponsive for hours. An MRI later revealed that large areas of her brain had been affected. Doctors told her family she might not survive the night, and if she did, she might never walk, speak, or function again.

Many of the women stroke warning signs Chanell experienced before her event had been dismissed by her and others as “just headaches.” But stroke symptoms in women can present differently, and they’re often overlooked or misunderstood.

Some of the most common women signs of stroke include:

• Sudden and severe headaches
• Nausea or fatigue
• Confusion or memory loss
• Loss of balance or dizziness
• Difficulty speaking or understanding language
• Blurred or double vision

If you’ve been experiencing symptoms like these, don’t wait. Stroke in women is often underdiagnosed simply because it looks different from the “classic” signs most of us hear about.

After waking from her coma, Chanell couldn’t walk, talk, or even swallow. She spent six weeks in a rehabilitation hospital learning how to be human again, learning how to sit, eat, and stand. During COVID, visitor rules meant she had to fight for the right to see her support system daily, and she did, advocating for herself even when she had very little voice.

And that’s what makes her story so powerful. It’s not just about surviving a stroke—it’s about fighting for who you get to become after one.

“I remember waking up and thinking, ‘Who the hell am I now?’” Chanell said.

That question haunted her. Before the stroke, she had built her identity around being driven, competent, and full of energy. Suddenly, she was navigating life with neurofatigue, slurred speech, vision problems, memory loss, and hypersensitivity to noise.

What do you do when you can’t go back to who you were, and you’re not yet who you’re going to be?

For many stroke survivors, especially women, this post-stroke identity crisis can be just as hard as the physical recovery. Society often defines us by what we do, but what happens when you can’t do those things anymore?

In the quiet moments of rehab, Chanell began journaling. She captured her rawest thoughts, fears, and even her sense of humor as she stumbled her way forward, page by page. Those journal entries eventually became her published book:
My Stroke of Luck

Her book isn’t a “pity party.” It’s an unfiltered, honest, and even funny account of stroke recovery from a woman’s perspective. And it’s exactly the kind of support she wishes she had when she needed it most.

“It was the diary I wish someone had handed me in the hospital. Something that said: ‘You’re not crazy. This is just what healing looks like.’”

Too many women ignore the early signs of stroke. Too many doctors misdiagnose them. Too many workplaces and families aren’t prepared to support them when it happens.

If you’ve ever searched for stroke for women, women stroke symptoms, or stroke in women, you know how scattered the information can be. Chanell’s story cuts through the noise. It reminds us that:

• A stroke can happen to younger women.
• Stroke symptoms in women may not follow the “typical” pattern.
• Full recovery isn’t just physical, it’s emotional, mental, and existential.
• Finding purpose post-stroke isn’t only possible, it’s powerful.

Four years later, Chanell is using her background in psychology and her personal experience to help others. She’s:

• Volunteering at a stroke rehab hospital
• Raising awareness on the radio and in hospitals
• Exploring a podcast for stroke survivors in South Africa
• Offering psychometric coaching to help others rediscover who they are

She turned a life-altering stroke into an opportunity to reconnect with her values, use her voice, and become the guide she wished she had.

If you’re a woman, or you love one, take a moment to understand the unique way stroke presents in women. Don’t brush off the headaches, the fatigue, or the “weird feeling” you can’t explain.

And if you’re already walking the post-stroke path, know this: you are not alone, you are not broken, and your story isn’t over.

Sometimes, the most powerful version of you is the one who emerged after everything changed.

Chanell’s stroke at 35 stole her words, but gave her a new voice. Her story is a roadmap for any survivor seeking strength, purpose, and healing.

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Highlights:

00:00 Chanell Havenga’s Background and Early Life
09:23 Chanell’s Stroke and Initial Recovery
11:28 Identity and Existential Crisis Post-Stroke
27:29 Advocating for Oneself and Overcoming Obstacles
54:33 Chanel’s Journey to Publication and Advocacy
1:14:44 Emotional and Mental Recovery Post-Stroke
1:23:44 Adjusting to a New Normal and Finding Purpose
1:24:43 Reflecting on Personal Growth and Change

Transcript:

Bill Gasiamis 0:00
Before we dive in. A big thank you to Banksia Tech for supporting this episode, proud distributors of the Hanson rehab glove by Syrebo. It’s designed to help stroke survivors improve hand function at home, whether you’re early in recovery or years into it, and you’ll hear more about it later in the episode.

Bill Gasiamis 0:22
Links are in the YouTube description and at recoveryafterstroke.com. Now, what if the thing that was meant to help you nearly ended your life? That’s what happened to Chanell Havenga, a 35 year old industrial psychologist from South Africa.

Bill Gasiamis 0:39
For years, she battled debilitating headaches. Eventually, she agreed to a cortisone infiltration, a 15 minute procedure she never woke up from. Chanel had suffered a massive ischemic stroke. She was placed in a coma. Doctors told her family that she would likely not make her through the night, but she did, and what followed was a journey of rediscovery, from diapers, silence, and double vision to publishing her own stroke recovery book.

Bill Gasiamis 1:11
Volunteering in rehab centers and helping others find meaning in their mess. If you’ve ever felt like your identity disappeared after stroke, if you’re still struggling with neurofatigue, memory loss or emotional overload, if you’ve been dismissed, unseen or misunderstood, especially as a woman, this episode is your mirror, your map, your reminder. You are more than what you lost. You’re becoming something new. Let’s dive in. Chanell Havenga, welcome to the podcast.

Chanell Havenga 1:46
Thank you, Bill, thank you for having me.

Bill Gasiamis 1:49
Tell me a little bit about what life was like before stroke. For you, what did you do? How did you get around? What were your days like? What was family life like?

Chanell Havenga 2:02
Okay, so I was a working student. So I’ve always studied and worked to pay my studies. And I think you can imagine that’s quite hectic, keeping you busy. I was very adventurous, uh, absolute adrenaline junkie. I loved roller coasters and arts and photography, and I basically spent my life studying. So I eventually graduated my master’s degree, and I’m so happy that happened, and we finally got there, and family life was absolute fantastic.

Chanell Havenga 2:59
Absolutely fantastic. I have such a great family and support system, so everything was just really very compassionate in that aspect. Sport wise, I’ve not, I haven’t really warmed up to sports all my life, but I did find things that gave me joy, such as belly dancing, if you can believe that. And I did compete in South Africa’s. Ms. Billy Dawn South Africa. I really, really enjoyed that so much. There is something about being on stage and the adrenaline pumping. I think this is adjacent to that adrenaline junkie side of me. That is me in a nutshell.

Bill Gasiamis 4:05
Amazing. So what did you get your Masters in?

Chanell Havenga 4:09
I did my masters in industrial psychology.

Bill Gasiamis 4:13
Wow. Okay, that’s a pretty cool field, industrial psychology. How is that different from, say, General Psychology.

Speaker 1 4:22
So clinical psychology works with individuals who are going through things with trauma, basically, and you counsel and you psychologize those individuals. But industrial psychology is about working with individuals in the workspace, so everything around the workspace, how they fit in, how this is going to make the organization better, how you’re going to find a good fit between themselves and the job. So you’re not looking at those individual aspects, personal aspects. You are looking at the job itself and that person and how they fit into that.

Bill Gasiamis 5:12
I love it. Would there be a behavioral aspect to it as well, how they present in their behaviors, there is suitability for a particular role, how they engage with a team and clients, I imagine, and customers, etc.

Speaker 1 5:31
Spot on Bill. So basically, an aspect of the job that I currently have is psychometrics. So what we do is we assess candidates, or people inside the organization who are already employed and need to be developed further. So we assess them on integrity, personality, cognitive ability, and then we give feedback to them, as well as their line managers, as to the way forward, or whether they have made the cut for selection, etc.

Bill Gasiamis 6:11
I love it. I’m not a psychologist by any means, but we have a couple things in common. We’ve had a stroke each, and I’ve just recently completed a training to deliver psychometric testing for a new product, a psychometric that’s been developed by an amazing friend of mine based In the UK, and it’s about behavioral psychometric testing, and it kind of takes away from the idea of putting people in that group, where some psychometric tests do.

Bill Gasiamis 6:50
Which is, you are this, or you are that, or you are that, and then therefore labeling people and Giving them parameters, I suppose, for which they are supposed to or do behave in. So this particular psychometric we’ll talk about it at the end as well, because it’s probably not relevant to this determines how people behave, and it’s about just educating the person about their particular behavior to make them aware of particular traits that they may not have had.

Bill Gasiamis 7:24
And how those traits affect the environment they work in, either positively or negatively, and then how they interact with people, either whether there’s a positive aspects to it or some negative aspects to it. And what’s cool about it is, I did the test recently and and it’s, you know, that journey that all stroke survivors go on, especially the ones that have been on my podcast, which is to kind of develop an idea of themselves from the stroke as being kind of like the line in the sand.

Bill Gasiamis 7:55
And then I’m going to move forward and change some things improve, some things that psychometric kind of allowed me to look at it and go, Well, that is amazing to know. I now understand why certain interactions go the wrong way, and why and which part of that interaction I might be responsible for, and how I can adjust my behavior so that I behave the way I intend, which is with courage, with compassion, you know, with non judgment and a really open conversation, rather than a conversation that gets people on the wrong side of a conversation.

Bill Gasiamis 8:43
And the reason I mentioned it, I think, is because it’s relevant to how I dealt with my medical professionals and my doctors. And often we find stroke survivors will talk about how medical professionals and their behavior sometimes leaves a lot to be desired. So the more we can learn about ourselves, the better. And I just love that you do, that you’re a psychologist and you have this industrial psychological background, because that is such an amazing tool to help you with stroke recovery, I believe.

Chanell Havenga 9:23
Yes. And just like you’ve said, Bill, the psychometric aspect of it is actually all about it’s rooted in bringing self awareness. So once you become aware of those things that might limit you or hold you back, you can make the choice to whether you want to remain as is. Are you content with life as it is and with how things pan out when you behave? Or do you want to make a conscious change? But. Can’t do so we cannot address that which we are not aware of. So we need to become aware first.

Bill Gasiamis 10:07
Guys, if you’re working on hand recovery after stroke, there’s a tool worth knowing about, the Hansen Rehab Glove by Syrebo, available through Banksia tech. It’s safe to use at home, even if your years into recovery with six therapy modes, including stretching, grasping and release and a patented mirror function, it helps retrain your brain and hands together.

Bill Gasiamis 10:32
It’s also available as a low cost assistive tech and Banksia tech ships internationally. Visit Banksiatech.com.au or check out the YouTube description and show notes at recoveryafterstroke.com to learn more. Now, let’s take a breath. You’ve just heard Chanell describe waking up and unable to speak, walk or move, completely unaware of the stroke that had just shattered her life, alone, confused, stripped of identity, and yet she chose to fight.

Bill Gasiamis 11:05
She cried for three days, and then she decided, I’m not going to feel sorry for myself. I’m going to try. If that’s where you are, somewhere between despair and decision, just know you’re not weak for feeling broken. You are strong for showing up. Let’s get back to Chanell as she reclaims her power, rewrites her story and begins again.

Bill Gasiamis 11:26
Yeah, I love that. I call them blind spots. I went to counseling as soon as I I think I was maybe 10 days out of hospital, the first time I had a brain hemorrhage, I was at counseling immediately to try and wrap my head around what a happened to me, what this from an existential space? What does this all mean for my life? And then also, what can I do?

Bill Gasiamis 11:50
How do I need to change and adapt so that I can move into a space where I am taking responsibility for the things that I can and then outsourcing the skills and the responsibility for the things that I can’t to people, the professionals who I choose, and so that they can do their bit, which is keep me healthy, remove the reason for the stroke, keep me alive, send me home, so I can become wiser and a better person and better adjusted and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 12:29
Well, you were very brave going 10 days post stroke to a counselor already. I didn’t have that. Yeah, that takes guts, and I commend you for that. Wow.

Bill Gasiamis 12:43
Yeah, it was the only way I could see forward. Christine and I, my wife, we had never dealt with anything like this before, so there’s no, there’s no way to wrap your head around it when you don’t have the experience and also the medical background we Christine and I were not doctors, so we don’t know anything about anything. And now you’re dealing with existential crisis, and it’s just turned up on your lap, and you didn’t have a say in it. And now you have to navigate it with a family, with children, with elderly parents that need looking after, with all sorts of things. And how do you supposed to do it on your own?

Speaker 1 13:25
Exactly as you would know your whole life turns on its head, right? Because life as you know it ceases to exist. It’s it’s basically replaced with brand spanking new everything, new perspectives, new priorities. And I don’t know if this was like it for you, but at first, I refuse to believe that anything had changed. You know that that I really wanted to believe that I was still the same person, so I pushed myself.

Chanell Havenga 14:04
Don’t know if this happened to you. You push yourself, push yourself, and you know to show and to comfort everyone and yourself even that you are still you, that you’re okay, everything’s going to be okay. And it’s like you’re trying to convince yourself and others that look, it’s still me, but I ended up learning the hard way that when you burn the candle at both ends, it’s not worth the burns that follow.

Bill Gasiamis 14:36
Yeah, it’s really tough to deal with all of the aftermath of that so it’s the identity gets impacted immediately. But we’re not used to dealing with instant identity changes. If you if I remember my time as a stroke survivor, by the time I became a podcaster, I think I had been about. So 2012 was the first incident.

Bill Gasiamis 15:02
My podcast started around 2015 somewhere like that, and I was so unwell that I wasn’t putting out too many episodes. I was just trying to squeeze them in when I could. And people would ask me, What do I do? And I would say, I do my work, and I do this and I do that. But I never said, I’m a podcaster. I only ever said sometimes I interview stroke survivors and we put it out.

Bill Gasiamis 15:25
And there has to be an amount of time and certain milestones or goals or achievements that I had ticked off before I could say I’m a podcaster, because before that, I was a painter, I was a husband, I was a dad, and I wasn’t a podcaster, and my identity I didn’t do the first episode, record it, put it live, and go, I’m a podcaster now, like it just doesn’t seem like that’s the right way to describe myself.

Bill Gasiamis 15:55
So identity takes a little bit of time to shift, and for me it took maybe 60 episodes or something before I said, I’m a podcaster. There was a body of there was a body of work. There was lots of interviews. People were interacting with them, they were helping. People were sharing them. And therefore it met the criteria that I had for when I listened to one of my favorite podcasts, and I could then relate to that favorite podcast and go, Okay, I fit all the criteria. So stroke survivors wake up in the morning after after the stroke, there’s so much to do and overcome. Identity takes a big hit and then takes a while to recover.

Speaker 1 16:42
Definitely, definitely. I think, I think that being waking up post stroke was probably and just realizing the weight of of it all and what it all means, was probably the hardest Hello that I’ve ever had to fake. I didn’t want to get to know the new me, because, according to me, I already did, or at least I thought I did, the me I’ve known for 35 years no longer existed.

Chanell Havenga 17:24
I’m sure. You know, there were tiny little fragments of me that still lingered. But have I really accepted this new version of me? And as with you, you know, have I really do. I really resonate with this new version of Chanell, and I think that is about the identity, as you’ve said, Bill our identity, you know, the who I was before, it is so closely tied to what I did, that now that I cannot do what I did at the same pace or intensity.

Chanell Havenga 18:09
I’ve I found, and I still find myself smack, bam, in the middle of an existential crisis. You know, because who the hell am I outside of what I can do? I still feel ambitious and driven. I still want to see the world on Aladdin’s magic carpet. You know, I still have those same dreams. I still want the same things, but now I have to grapple with trading in my stallion steed for Shrek’s donkey if I can put it like that.

Bill Gasiamis 18:52
I love it. Donkey is a lovable character. He does get the job done in a different way.

Speaker 1 19:01
He might go about an angle, but he gets it done, right?

Bill Gasiamis 19:05
And he’s, you know, obnoxious and, you know, he’s in your face, but he gets the job done, you know. And I love that. It’s about identifying how we can still get the job done in this different way and on a path we never chose, but now that we’re on it, we’ve got to make the most of it.

Bill Gasiamis 19:25
I love what you said, who I am, other than what I do, which is such an important question to ask, because we as at the at the party or at the pub or at the nightclub, people don’t ask you about who you are. They ask you what you do, and we identify with what we do. And then when that is not able to be done, we can’t do that anymore. Then who are we exactly? And the dive. It has to be deep.

Speaker 1 20:03
We are human beings. Bill, we are not human doings. Yeah. So you know, when people ask you, what do you? You know who you are and or you, you automatically almost jump into what you do and that doesn’t define you. And it took me probably two and a half years post stroke to realize that and to come to the conclusion of I am not what I do, if all of this is stripped away as it was, what is left of Chanell, you know, what? What meaningful contribution can I still offer the world?

Chanell Havenga 20:51
Because I wish, I really wish, sometimes I was just a lazy person content to just veg around and, you know, not worry about anything. Oh my gosh, my life would be so much easier. But I’m not. I want to always improve and be better, and then then my past version, or who I was yesterday. So I’m, always setting little goals for myself, but everything now is it’s adjusted. It looks different. And you can fight it all you want, but eventually you’ve got to come to terms with this is how it is now. And I do realize, yes, Bill, you know, it is what it is, but I’ve also come to realize that it will become what we make of it.

Bill Gasiamis 21:51
it. I love that. I love that so much. And this is what 13 years post stroke, gives you the opportunity to see what became of it, and for me, it was a podcast, a book, a massive community conversation with stroke survivors all around the world that’s incredible, right? Coaching and guiding and information, and therefore the bigger picture, which I didn’t know, which emerged from what action I took, from what behavior I took, or I attended to what behaviors I altered.

Bill Gasiamis 22:34
Well, then that’s what’s possible. And when I say that, that’s what’s possible, I Shrek. Shrek survivors will come onto the podcast. Before we get recording, they’ll say, I’m a little bit nervous about meeting you, and it’s, you know, this full on, far out thing. And it’s like, gosh, you don’t know who I am. Like, I’m just the guy who used to paint people’s houses all the time, every day, and nothing else in my life, and was cranky and angry.

Bill Gasiamis 23:00
I was just a normal guy who I just decided that it was interesting and exciting to engage with people in this way, not just at the painting of their home stage. And because I got more out of it, I did more of it, and as I did more of it, I got more out of it. And the cycle continued, and all of a sudden these things have appeared.

Bill Gasiamis 23:24
And what I did, more than anything, was I didn’t concede to my head telling me you shouldn’t do this, or the fear of, what if I do this, and somebody says we don’t like your book or your podcast is no good or and I thought, Well, I’m not going to listen to that voice anymore, which is a voice that used to run my life, and it’s probably why I became a painter, because I didn’t do the hard, the hard tasks early on that I needed to do to get me where I wanted to be.

Bill Gasiamis 24:01
That was the easy way out, and it was still a great it’s still a great way to raise a family, to create wealth, to pay your mortgage, to have a car, to go on a holiday. It does all of that, but it’s not it’s not personally fulfilling. When I paint somebody’s wall, and I walk away and they say, Thanks for painting my wall. This is me, this is purpose.

Chanell Havenga 24:29
Yes, absolutely. Um, Bill, I don’t know many people who get to start completely over. You know, like us post stroke, and yes, we may not fully recognize our reflection when we look in the mirror, but we do get to reinvent ourselves, and we do get to redesign our lives with our. Health and our health as top priority, because, as you’ve as you’ve mentioned, you know, things will probably never be the same again. Go never, ever go exactly back to before.

Chanell Havenga 25:15
But, and we don’t know this at the time, but the thing is, we will be okay. It’s just, it’s just kind of sad how we spend our lives at jobs willing to replace us in a heartbeat, right? And we bully our dreams into nothingness. But where in all of this is our own voice, where, if ever, do we stop to consider ourselves so that is so amazing that you were actually able to hush those in a you know, those inner critics that all of us have to say, You know what?

Chanell Havenga 26:06
I’m going to feel the fear and do it anyway and just look, just look at all of this incredible mess. I know that’s not a word, but it’s all of this incredibleness that you have created and that you share with like minded people. It really makes a massive difference.

Bill Gasiamis 26:31
Incredible-ing it is ongoing and continue, and continues to be, right? And it’s just simply because you know, I had, I think, you know what happened to me? I think I got lucky in the stroke, in that my mind switched off. It stopped working, that part of me, that scared guy who always listened to his negative inner voice that just switched off. I couldn’t actually access it for a while.

Chanell Havenga 27:09
Okay, okay, that is wow.

Bill Gasiamis 27:14
And then that opened the door, a door that wouldn’t have opened before, because I wouldn’t have even contemplated opening that door, because my mind would have said, No, don’t do that. We don’t do that. That’s not who you are. That’s not where you weirdos go there, or people that you don’t associate with go there, or people who are better than you go there. And that all went away. So because I couldn’t access that part of my brain, all I saw was opportunities.

Bill Gasiamis 27:40
Oh, my God, here’s another opportunity. And what I had was an amazing friend of mine who wrote the forward in my book, Michael Wilkinson. And he’s just a seed setter. He just plants seeds all day, every time you meet him, and he just plants seeds. And he was the one that planted the idea that if I’m going to help people.

Bill Gasiamis 28:01
I should do it beyond the suburb that I live in. And he said, you should do it on the internet. Online. There’s, you know, this thing called the internet. And I just looked at him and thought, Well, why would I do that? I can just go down the road and meet some people. And he says, Yeah, but how many people are you going to meet there? I said, I don’t know. There might be one or two or three. He goes, but this could get to 1000s of people, and then he stopped, and then he stopped speaking, and then he just let it marinate.

Chanell Havenga 28:31
Oh, that’s fantastic.I think we all need friends like that in our lives. Really, we do.

Bill Gasiamis 28:40
Yeah. And I lucked out. So what I’m hoping that people are getting out of this is that I am just an ordinary person. Forget about who the roles I play and the position I hold and the things that I’ve done, I am still an ordinary person, and lots of ordinary people have written books, lots of ordinary people have done amazing things, because it’s the ordinary people that we put on a pedestal and call extra ordinary, but they’re just doing things that we haven’t done, therefore we consider them better or more capable or somehow gifted to be able to do that. But it’s not about that. It they were just ordinary people, and they still are.

Speaker 1 29:35
They were brave enough to do the things we only dreamed of.

Bill Gasiamis 29:40
Perhaps, yeah, yeah, perhaps on the day of the stroke, what happened? How did you end up having a stroke?

Speaker 1 29:51
Okay, so little bit of context during my 20s, throughout my 20s. Yes, I was plagued with headaches five to seven times a week, which seriously imposed on the quality of my life. I can’t imagine that it was good for my kidneys as well having to process and break down all of the pain tablets that I was drinking at the rate that the headaches were occurring after I’ve completed my Masters, I then decided, You know what, let’s give this the much needed attention it deserves.

Chanell Havenga 30:36
So I booked an appointment and I did a few trial runs on different types of medications to see if that would work. First, absolutely no impact. And then I was booked for a 15 minute infiltration medical procedure. So this is where they would inject cortisone into the back of your neck. And the reason why they decided to do this was because they they thought that the headaches were triggered or stemmed from muscle spasms, so the cortisone would then relax the muscles.

Chanell Havenga 31:30
I did not wake up after those 15 minutes, though, and when I remained unresponsive. Hours later, and I was still in hospital, in the bed, remained unresponsive. They did. They They then made the call to send me for an MRI, and it was on the scans of the MRI that the severe ischemic stroke that I had was was discovered because my my brain, you know, when you look at the scan, the whole brain was white, so it had showed that everything had died.

Chanell Havenga 32:15
And basically the prognosis that was shared with my mom and my partner was that I was unlikely to make it through the night, and if I did, I would probably be declared brain dead. So yes, imagine being a mother and a husband and you you’re hearing the news. I can’t even Yes, I can’t even imagine that. So that is how the struggle occurred, yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 32:51
So you were going in to solve one problem, and you came out with a whole bunch of other problems.

Speaker 1 32:58
With multiple Yes.

Bill Gasiamis 33:05
So okay. Now what’s cool is that, with regards to the scan you just described, you’re sitting in front of me, and we’re having a conversation about a pot, about a a stroke, which means that, okay, so, like, the scan wasn’t as bad as it seemed to be, or it was.

Speaker 1 33:29
It was really bad. I was in a coma. I was wearing diapers at age 35 and that’s not a pretty picture. I couldn’t speak, swallow, sit, stand, walk. I had to relearn all of those things. There’s quite a few deficits that I’ve kept over from the stroke, but I believe that it really is a miracle that I am sitting here talking with you this morning or evening, and I believe that this all would not have been possible without the hand of God interfering and just saving me, and also without my support system, my incredible support system that I’m blessed with, I think things would have taken a far worse turn.

Bill Gasiamis 34:46
How many years ago was that?

Speaker 1 34:51
In August this year? It would have been it would be four years. Yes.

Bill Gasiamis 34:55
Okay, that’s amazing. Do you recall having any first thoughts? Do you recall waking up and going, what is going on? What was that like?

Speaker 1 35:09
Yes, it was. It was quite hilarious. I remember waking up and thinking to myself, I was feeling very groggy and out of it, and I remember thinking, wow. You know, no one told me that it would be like this. I never imagined the downtime for a 15 minute procedure would feel like this, and there was just nurses scurrying about, and no one made eye contact with me. I don’t know if if you also experience this, but it’s like you’re invisible the ICU, and it was also during one of the more serious waves of COVID.

Chanell Havenga 36:01
So, you know, everyone was so busy saving people, and you literally just become a number. And I think it’s also a defense mechanism on the on the part of the nurses, because they cannot really care for anyone or get attached, because so many people were dying during that time. So basically, I’m lying there. I realized, oh my gosh, I can’t speak.

Chanell Havenga 36:33
And why am I seeing double? My vision was just double. My eyes were completely squinted. And no one was telling me what was going on. And also my parents, my mom, anyone I knew, they were not able to visit me because it was COVID, and my mom works at the hospital, so she was able, thank goodness, to pull some strings and get to see me for five minutes every day.

Chanell Havenga 37:11
So that was at least, thank goodness something. But yes, only after about a few days, my mom told me, Chanel, you’ve had a stroke, and I remember feeling what like I just was in complete disbelief. I couldn’t I couldn’t believe it was just horrific.

Bill Gasiamis 37:37
It’s beyond acceptance. It’s like disbelief.

Speaker 1 37:41
Yes, absolutely, absolutely, yeah.

Bill Gasiamis 37:45
And, wow. I mean, so then what happened? How do you go through the next period of time? So you’ve discovered you’ve had a stroke. Your mum told you that, and then you’re in recovery, and we’re trying to get you back into the living world. How did that go? What was that like?

Speaker 1 38:11
So first, there was a turning point for me in rehab. So I was, I was admitted to high care for two weeks, and then I was admitted to a rehab hospital for six weeks, where I then relearned how to do everything. And I think that’s when reality finally dawned on me. You know, I wasn’t just going to get up and stroll out of rehab. This dead weight is basically what I am right now. So I cried for three days straight. Bill. I was completely inconsolable.

Chanell Havenga 38:57
No one could comfort me. I felt like a really big baby for crying. And also in rehab, they had this rule that I had to I had to choose, and you would know, you’re not really able to problem solve at that stage, I had to choose who would come to see me, my partner or my mom, because they were only allowed to see me once a week during COVID, and I threw the biggest tantrum ever and the most passive aggressive manner I could muster.

Chanell Havenga 39:46
And I threw a bit of rank, and I told them in a very groggy, throaty voice that, listen here, I am a industrial psychologist, and I could tell you, right now that it is in the best interest of the patient to have their family with them and support system. How do you expect people to recover anyway? That eventually my tantrum got escalated and escalated to, I don’t know who else, but it reached the right ears, and thankfully, my family was able to see me every day for one hour.

Chanell Havenga 40:30
So yes, I’m very thankful for that. But in those three days that I was just crying, I then realized that occasional you can go about this and make your life utter how and misery for the next six weeks, or you can just try To make the best of a very bad situation. So I refused to feel sorry for myself, and I couldn’t breathe because my nose was so blocked and red.

Chanell Havenga 41:11
You know, it wasn’t Christmas, but I was Rudolph, and with three tiny letters having a massive impact, I simply decided to try, wow, and that is where things took off. And I changed the narrative in my head, and I decided to fight back, because you cannot be released from rehab, unless you’ve met certain goals. And the goals given to me was I needed to go to the bathroom by myself.

Chanell Havenga 41:49
I needed to be able to shower myself, and I had to walk, I think it was 90 meters. And for me, those 90 meters felt like an absolute sprint at the time. However, I think that I was more like a snail, but yes, I put my head down and I focused on that, and I had a new purpose.

Bill Gasiamis 42:17
Oh, wow, I love that you did that so early on, and that you were able to advocate for yourself and be able to pull rank like that. You did that. Yes, yeah, every once in a while you have to be able to do that. Most of the time you end up part of my French when you when people pull rank, they end up looking like a dick, right? But that was the most appropriate time to do it.

Bill Gasiamis 42:42
I love it, and to have the knowledge that you had, which is really speaks then to the nurses. And I imagine one of those nurses decided, You know what? That makes complete sense. I’m going to advocate for this person. And do you know who that was? Was it somebody that that you remember, who advocated for you and did that.

Speaker 1 43:05
I have no idea. This is one of the lovely benefits of the stroke, is memory loss. So I can’t remember things before the stroke and my past, and I can’t remember certain things that happened during the stroke, it would just be blank in my mind. When I’m tired. I can’t even remember what I had for breakfast the same day. So yeah, unfortunately, not but I do remember there being a nurse, and she was a complete Angel, because she was doing a job out of compassion. You know, when you when you get people who just work for a salary, that was not her. She was different, and I was so grateful to have had her by my side.

Bill Gasiamis 44:07
Yeah, I remember there was nurses in the rehab hospital I was at, and then there was also occupational therapists and physical therapists, and the nurses were had those. You know how you said earlier that they wouldn’t even make contact, eye contact with you, etc. So, so you can imagine all the various the different spectrum of people who attend a physical rehabilitation hospital, right? There’s such a spectrum.

Bill Gasiamis 44:39
And one of the ladies, there was probably, who knows what she experienced, but she was in a diaper, and she was the lady opposite me, so when, when she had to move her bowels, everybody on the floor knew about it. But that wasn’t the worst part. That. That’s That’s probably terrible for her. It wasn’t the worst part for me.

Bill Gasiamis 45:03
The worst part for me was that they relocated the bin that held those soiled diapers in the hallway outside my door, and I was meant to eat dinner and lunch in that room, oh no, and it would smell the entire day. And I had, I had to have a number of conversations with the people who were caring for that lady, the nurses, and then escalate that to, you know, the head nurse or the manager.

Bill Gasiamis 45:39
I’m not sure who it was, but I’m in there now trying to recover from all the stuff that I got. To recover from my left side deficits. I can’t walk with my left hand properly, etc, and it’s very early days in my recovery. I’ve got a fresh scar on my head.

Bill Gasiamis 45:56
And I thought that all I had to do was say, Would it be possible to move the bins away from my from the hallway, just take them elsewhere, down the outside, down the hall or something where it’s not in the way of anybody, not next door, just out of the area. And they said no. And then I said, Well, but, but it’s uncomfortable. It’s unpleasant.

Bill Gasiamis 46:24
And then they played the but that lady is really unwell. I’m not complaining about the lady and the condition that she’s in and what she has to do and what she’s going through. What I’m all I’m asking is that bin just, can please be relocated 100 meters that way. Just get it out of the doorway. I understand your job and understand everything that you’re doing.

Bill Gasiamis 46:47
I don’t have an issue with that, but I am meant to eat here. That fell on deaf ears for a number of days, and I remember after about the third day or something like that, lunch was delivered. I wasn’t. So I would go to do my exercises, my rehab, and then I’d come back into the room to rest, have lunch, and then more rehab, and then that cycle would repeat, lunch.

Bill Gasiamis 47:12
Lunch came, and I put myself in my wheelchair, I rolled myself to the front desk, and I invited the nurses to come to my room with me, to have lunch with me. And they looked at me and they said, why? I said, just, just come. Just bring your lunch and just come and have lunch with me. You know you’ll just say you can experience what I experience, exactly.

Bill Gasiamis 47:39
And then they were like, What are you experiencing? I’ve been complaining about it for three days, and I understand the difficulty of the nature of the situation and the job. I totally get that, but that is not the right place to store that kind of waste. I’m sure there are rules around that, and the rules are not to store that waste in any public space where people can access it, infections, all that kind of stuff, I’m sure.

Bill Gasiamis 48:06
So, yeah, eventually I won that little battle, and they moved it down the road and the the and then there was one less drama for everyone to have to deal with. But that thing does happen, and I, I was like, You, I was pulling rank because I did the victim. I’m the victim here, and you have to make my life comfortable here to help me heal. My recovery goes well, and then I get out of here. That’s the whole reason why I’m here.

Speaker 1 48:40
Yes, it’s but being, being the victim, being in such a position, almost by default, we are overlooked, you know? So it’s like your voice doesn’t really matter. And the first thing I thought of, and then you said, You’ve done it was, I would, in that situation, I would, I think what you did was genius. Invite them, you know, come just, just experience it.

Chanell Havenga 49:20
Because people who are not in your shoes, yeah, it’s so difficult for them to really walk in your shoes and experience what you’re experiencing. I would have probably said, Would you like to go have your lunch next to the bin? Then you you get to see what, what, what it is all about. But I like the strategy that you employed.

Chanell Havenga 49:45
I think that was far more effective at getting them to play along. But isn’t that, what is the word? Isn’t that almost kind. Characteristic of of being a stroke survivor is that no one really gets it unless you’ve lived it. No one really knows what you’re going through. You can explain it until you’re blue in your face, but it’s it’s not the same for someone who has not survived the stroke.

Bill Gasiamis 50:26
Yeah, it is. And also it’s a blessing that I don’t know what’s going on, and the only thing I hope is that people who have going through a stroke have enough presence. Of their mind to be able to advocate for themselves, even in small ways, if it’s just for something minor or major that they can do that that’s really if you can, if they have to lose everything else, but not that thing, that that would be amazing.

Bill Gasiamis 51:01
When I was first diagnosed, I was in the hospital, and the doctors would come to the end of my bed in a team talk about me and then leave, yes, never talk to me. And I had a friend of mine who was at another hospital as a radiographer, and I said to him, you need to get me out of here. These people are not including me in the conversation.

Bill Gasiamis 51:22
I can’t be passive in this conversation. You need to find, yeah, you need to find me a a team of doctors that will listen. And of course, he found me the most amazing team. And basically did the deal before I even had to do anything. And then when I went there, all I did was meet the new team, the new doctor, and she’s an amazing lady, and now she’s the head of neuro neurosurgery in the Royal Melbourne Hospital, Kate professor, Kate Drummond.

Bill Gasiamis 51:53
And if it wasn’t, if it wasn’t for that, you know, I didn’t need the addition. You don’t need the additional aggravation in in that condition. When you’re in that condition, you need things to go if, if they’ve never gone smoothly for you up until that day, you need them to go smoothly from here on and and I’m just glad that, you know, we get opportunity to talk about this and raise awareness for people so that they can feel comfortable to advocate for themselves every step of the way.

Speaker 1 52:29
Absolutely. Bill, you also asked me, How is life now? You know, how was it during, during the stroke and the recovery? And I’m, I don’t want to assume things, but I’m, I’m probably gaging that you went through similar motions and one of, one of those things that rears its very ugly head is guilt.

Chanell Havenga 53:05
So yes, you know it’s like there’s a fine balance between advocating for yourself, standing up for yourself, and then feeling that guilt, because nothing can prepare you for the guilt. You know no one tells you that you are going to cry buckets full of crushing pressure. You know the guilt of being too slow, the guilt of holding other people back, the guilt of being a burden.

Chanell Havenga 53:36
You have to kind of juggle that, but then you also have to juggle that with having grace with yourself, right, and being kind to yourself. And I would, when told this news, I would usually roll my eyes, because what is there to be kind about? I just want to get back to normal or the normal that I knew, but it’s tough to it’s tough to say these words when the recipient is you.

Chanell Havenga 54:11
You know, we are our own best critics. But I, I believe that if if I had only known the sooner, you know, I might have applied it sooner. And I believe you need to start with you. You need to forgive you. You know, I’m sorry that I don’t feel like adulting today. I’m sorry for being mean to me, you know, I’m sorry. I’m so tired all the time, and I’m sorry that I feel like I’ve stopped being a person and started becoming a problem, you know.

Chanell Havenga 54:56
So it’s such a delicate little balance and dance between. In guilt and being mean to yourself and not having grace with yourself, that’s what I experienced, and then the deficits that I kept over from the stroke the biggest one bill would be neurofatigue, because it it infiltrates into every little aspect of your life, literally, it impacts on every single thing I now also have extreme auditory sensitivity, so I have noise canceling headphones at work.

Chanell Havenga 55:50
I have little I actually heard you interview another podcast person, a stroke survivor, and you were talking about little earplugs, and I went and googled them, and I ordered them immediately. And I’m so thankful, because they work like a dream.

Chanell Havenga 56:14
It just takes the edge off, you know, just the noise. And yes, so I have that. I have my noise canceling headphones. I wear permanent glasses with special prism lenses to help with my balance. So no Unfortunately, I cannot do belly dance at the same level that I used to, because I cannot turn my head and we, you know, there would be a lot of head spins.

Chanell Havenga 56:46
I can’t turn around at the same pace, because then I’d look like a little baby elephant. You know, not having balance, I have difficulty regulating my body temperature on the left side of my body, so weird, my foot and my leg is always cold, always memory loss, as You know, sleep apnea, because apparently your throat muscles become lazy.

Chanell Havenga 57:24
They relax when you’ve had a stroke, so it’s like a straw that you bend and the air can’t flow through. So sleep apnea, basically no oxygen to the brain. Then also, I’m only able to work until 2pm in the afternoon because my productivity and accuracy nose dives after after that time, you can’t get anything out of me, which is so impressive that you are having this podcast at that time of day, that that you are having it, um, because I was working out the time difference from South African Australian like, Oh my gosh. How are you even still awake?

Bill Gasiamis 58:17
I’ll tell you, it’s early in the morning here, so you may have worked that out incorrectly. So it’s just shifted over, it’s just shifted over to mid day where it’s 1:30pm so that’s okay, however I everything you described. I’ve been through exactly all those things, stopping work at a given time. That was not my choice.

Bill Gasiamis 58:47
Was a common thing. My left side deficits are the same cold, much colder than my right side. I even sweat less on my left side compared to my right side. Wow. So that was weird one day to go and wipe my forehead of sweat and to realize that there was no sweat on this side of my forehead, just on this side. That was so bizarre.

Speaker 1 59:15
Do you also experience aphasia and slurring of your speech when you get tired.

Bill Gasiamis 59:25
I don’t, but my wife will sometimes, I’ll start a sentence, and she’ll sometimes wait for the answer, and she’ll be going spit it out, you know. And I’ll be like, don’t rush me, you know, be nice, don’t tell me to spit it out. Yeah, and it’s sometimes the cogs turn a little slower, but it’s not a big challenge. People don’t really notice it if I do it in the right context, if I’m on stage and doing it, people think I’m just a deep thinker.

Chanell Havenga 59:56
Yes, it’s intentional.

Bill Gasiamis 59:59
Yeah. Yeah, so I just play. I play the game.

Speaker 1 1:00:05
So I literally look like a inebriated, drunk person when I get tired, because my speech starts slurring. I don’t talk any sense. I actually start bumping into things.

Bill Gasiamis 1:00:25
Especially my left side. If I’m walking next to somebody, I tend to run into them all the time. I’m not sure why. They just become magnetic.

Chanell Havenga 1:00:34
Yeah, exactly. I like that. They become magnetic.

Bill Gasiamis 1:00:40
So it’s their fault, not mine. And then what has happened is, they have all got better. The cognitive fatigue has improved. The ability to focus on a screen for longer has improved. My productivity has improved, but I’ve but I’ve made a lot of changes. I don’t smoke, I don’t drink, I don’t eat barely any carbs, so I don’t do the things that are a high load on the brain and its energy levels.

Bill Gasiamis 1:01:08
And I try to make sure that I’m supplementing with things that I need to supplement. I’ve got a couple of other issues. I have a thyroid issue. Just a few days ago, I was diagnosed with high blood pressure, so there’s a lot of things that you can do to support the brain to heal further and become more efficient, but you just have to do it regularly now, but you you committed to your recovery in therapy. So tell me about that. What does that look like four years later, this commitment to recovering, and what have you changed? Or what are you doing, and what have you stopped doing?

Chanell Havenga 1:01:49
Wow, I have really started living like I don’t want to die almost again. I’ve prioritized my health because I figured, you know, you’ve been given a second chance at life, and I have scaled down significantly bill with most things you know, at first you you just push yourself and you want to convince yourself that you still can and it’s still you and you haven’t lost yourself or your identity.

Chanell Havenga 1:02:35
And then you burn out multiple times until you realize, okay, this is just a never ending loop. It’s not going to end unless you end it. So I’ve decided to really stop literally and smile the roses, to pace myself. You know, fatigue isn’t it isn’t only triggered physically so too much stimulation and mental those things are hot on its heels.

Chanell Havenga 1:03:14
Also, I’ve realized that the brain cannot cope when it has too many tabs open, too many distractions and things happening, stress, especially also it takes the brain away from recovery, because now it’s busy with coping with that stress. So yes, i and i also something that really helped me, Bill is the occupational therapy homework that I got. It has helped me immensely, and it was journaling, and that is how I I wrote and published a book called My Stroke of Luck.

Bill Gasiamis 1:04:04
Yes, you have a copy of it there?

Speaker 1 1:04:20
This is my book, and it it has really helped me bill, because I was able to put to paper what was going on. And the reason you know what sparked this is I was journaling just during my recovery early days, though, and I happened to read an entry to my partner, and he said to me, You know what? You should really do something with this, because it’s not like a pity party.

Chanell Havenga 1:04:56
You write humorously, but you don’t. You know, an Afrikaans, we have a saying that we say, you get drawing in a dukies Omni so basically, I’m not Willy Wonka. I don’t sugarcoat things, so I tell it as it is, but I do so in a in a humorous way. And that’s when I decided to really go for it and write this book I also, which also helps me is I volunteer at a stroke rehabilitation hospital.

Chanell Havenga 1:05:44
And the whole thing about the book is I want to raise and apply funds to assist stroke survivors in any way my capacity allows, because I believe that too many people are suffering silence, and too few are aware of this, and I believe it can be changed. So I felt like my book is deemed for a cause. It’s it’s, my book is for a cause deemed worthy of trying, and this is what I want to achieve.

Chanell Havenga 1:06:30
I also rose Stroke Awareness on radio, and I shared my story and how book readings at hospitals. So in terms of what I’m doing now is I really want to make a difference in Stroke Awareness, and in that regard, I think Bill, you are my idol and my hero, because you have done what I think has brought such a massive difference to so many people’s lives. And you know, that is the goal that I would love to to reach as well.

Bill Gasiamis 1:07:26
I love it. Yeah, so one of the the last chapter of my book, is stumbling into purpose, and it starts off. And the reason I it’s called that, is because I didn’t set out to find my purpose and meaning. It’s not what I did, but I volunteered. I volunteered in 2013, a year after my first and second bleed, and I still wasn’t well.

Bill Gasiamis 1:07:58
You know, had another bleed to come, and I had brain surgery to come. I still wasn’t well, and I volunteered to the Stroke Foundation, and I went to the community, and I spoke about stroke and I raised awareness. Recently, I became the voice of a Stroke campaign here in Australia. Previously, I’ve lent my face to the I don’t know why they chose my face, but they chose my face, and they used it on their pamphlets and on some of their social media.

Bill Gasiamis 1:08:25
And what that was, was the beginning of the podcast, because the podcast was a volunteer kind of role. It was free. You didn’t have to pay for it or anything like that. In fact, it cost me money to put out. Yeah, and what happened was, it was during the podcast interview, I think around episode 40, when I said to another stroke survivor, I think I’ve found my purpose, and that came to me. It wasn’t what I set out to do, but it came from helping others.

Bill Gasiamis 1:08:59
And if you want your life to improve dramatically, even though you can’t walk move, your identity has changed, and all those things happen, even all of that stuff has happened. If you want your chat, your life to improve dramatically, help somebody else, beautiful, that’s it, and that helping somebody else can start simply by sharing a book, a podcast, a story, by reaching out to responding to their Facebook post and saying, I hear you, I see you, I understand you.

Bill Gasiamis 1:09:37
You don’t have to attend a particular location or anything like that. You just have to make it about I’m going to improve the life of the lives of other people. And your husband, he planted the seed. Your partner planted the seed, like my friend Michael, and that was all that it needed. And wouldn’t you believe it like that little seed sprouted and it became this thing, and that is.

Bill Gasiamis 1:09:59
So that’s the gift of of stroke. Like I know people who are early on, perhaps, and doing it a lot tougher than we did, might not see it right now, right yet, but if you can find the way to ask yourself, what is good about this? Well, let me tell you, if you don’t know anything, that’s good about anything is that, if you survived a stroke in 2025 that’s what’s good about it, because 50 years ago, that stroke that you experienced, that you survived, may not have been a survivable one. And then go from there.

Speaker 1 1:10:45
I remember being in rehab and just wishing that, you know, I had some sort of guidance, something to just guide me and to tell me how things might be, what I might expect, you know, what is the forecast, you know, for the future? Is it normal for me to feel like this is Is there something wrong with me, other than, you know, not being able to walk and and so forth.

Chanell Havenga 1:11:23
And that would that’s another reason why I wrote my book, is because it, it was essentially the diary I had wished I had, and I wanted, I wanted to have other stroke survivors feel less alone in in all of, all of everything that’s just going on in their lives right now, because it’s no one tells you, it’s a mental struggle as well. You know, you you think, Okay, let me.

Chanell Havenga 1:11:58
Let me just get through these physical deficits, let me just do physio and biokinetics and and all of those things and tick, tick, tick it off my list. But no one tells you that when, when you focus on that actually on the back burner. You really need to look at your emotions. You cannot defer that. It’s it’s creeping up there, and it’s going to come and you’re going to have to deal with that.

Chanell Havenga 1:12:36
But that was the that was the furthest thing from my mind. Um, so it’s not all sunshine and roses, you know, sometimes it’s just thorns, and you have to, you have to be prepared for that, and that is why I wanted to put my book out there. Um, because it’s literally diary entries of me during my recovery. And at the end, I also thought, you know, this might actually not be a bad idea, because my attention span in the beginning was zero.

Chanell Havenga 1:13:22
I wasn’t able to read more than one or two pages at a time, and the diary entries that I have is literally a page, you know. So. And I also want to actually start a an audio book for stroke survivors, because of of my book, because when I was in hospital, I was also going blind, and stroke survivors might find it difficult to read um, but Then at least they could listen.

Bill Gasiamis 1:14:02
That’s some of the feedback I’ve had. And I tell you what guys the hardest thing to do for me is sit down and read a script of a book and make it sound something worth listening to. It is so difficult to to gain the skill to read something and then make it sound conversational and flow. I can have a conversation forever, but reading the book is really hard, and I’ve had it requested, but I can’t seem to get it out.

Bill Gasiamis 1:14:37
Now. I will one day, but I can’t at the moment, but I would encourage you, if you can, to find, find a way to get that done, because people are missing out, because I haven’t got a an audio version, but they have the podcast, and pretty much everything that the book shares, the podcast pretty much does share. We talk about all those topics all the time. I’m thankful for that.

Bill Gasiamis 1:15:03
I wanted to as we start to wrap up, but before we do, I want to ask you a little bit about psychology. Now, you mentioned that you cannot go about your recovery with the physical only. There’s, I have like a triangle of stroke recovery, physical, emotional, and I’m going to call it mental. Now, emotional is the psychology part, and I’ll tell you why.

Bill Gasiamis 1:15:31
And mental is the the cognitive behavioral therapy part, and physical is the obvious physical part. One of the things that I think is occurring in the field of psychology. The counseling side of psychology is the word is associated with the head and the actual word, the etymology of the word is, psychology is, see here is Psych and lawyer is logic, the logos and I feel like the counselors and the psychologists that I’ve been to amazing as they are, and they’re both women, by the way, the ones that I had chosen.

Bill Gasiamis 1:16:11
They do the emotional part really, really well. But I feel there’s a little bit of a disconnect between the actual meaning of the word psychology and how it’s applied, because I feel like it’s applied only and the majority of the time consciously to the head and not enough of the emotional, heart based psych type of stuff is occurring. Now. Is that just me? Or would you agree with that statement? Or do you think it’s not like that?

Speaker 1 1:16:48
I do hear what you’re saying. Bill, I haven’t had that experience. I also had to see psychologists and counselors, and it would almost seem the inverse of what you’re saying, so they focus mostly on emotion and what you’re going through. So it was almost never for me about cognitive things, unless I wanted to go there okay and discuss those things, but then they would always turn it back to Okay. But you know, at the risk of sounding like a cliche, how does that make you feel?

Chanell Havenga 1:17:42
You know, so it would always, it would always go back to the emotion and what it stirs inside of you. And you know, we, we often try and rationalize things and think about things, and this is why it’s not cognitive. So whenever you say, I think, I think I feel like this and this, no, no, no, no, don’t think. Just feel. You know what you feel. So, um, yes, I I do hear what you’re saying, but I myself haven’t had that experience. I wish maybe a little bit more of thinking and less of feeling, because I think I’m tired of talking about my feelings by now, but yes.

Bill Gasiamis 1:18:44
I love what you just said. I think I’m tired about talking about my feelings, the feelings. Though, talking about your feelings brings much more relief than thinking that I’m tired about talking the feelings. So there is a thing as cognitive behavioral therapy, but there isn’t a thing as emotional behavioral therapy. Or is there?

Chanell Havenga 1:19:02
Not, that I know of emotional behavioral therapy would be trauma counseling, um, sessions, you know, if you, if you want to box it like that, it’s, it would, it would be looking at specific traumas and all that that entails.

Bill Gasiamis 1:19:20
Yeah, but if you think about, if we do think about behavioral, cognitive behavioral therapy, it is a field that teaches you how your thinking may be flawed and how you might be able to adjust it so that it is less flawed, and it helps you meet the outcomes of your life, whatever they are, or the outcome of the session, the outcome of the interaction with the human being that you’re having trouble with, whatever it is, right?

Bill Gasiamis 1:19:47
Well, emotional behavioral therapy would be something similar. You would attend to the behavior of your to the outcome of your emotional behavior, and you could then attend to how to adjust it. Alter it, comprehend it in a way which would support a better relationship, a better job environment, a better a better experience with yourself, a better way to deal with your stroke experience and not that, how you’re dealing with it is not okay, or it’s not right.

Bill Gasiamis 1:20:20
It is perfectly okay let me tell you that right now, if that’s what you’re going through, but it’s always about kind of saying, okay, is this serving me or not? My thinking wasn’t serving me. That’s why I went to counseling, and what it was doing to me. It was causing emotional turmoil, and my emotions were the were the symptom, and people would see my emotions, but it was the thinking that was triggering the incorrect path to that emotion.

Bill Gasiamis 1:20:50
And then once I altered my thinking and realized what I’m doing is I’m because my biggest challenge when I was in my mid 20s was that all my problems, where everybody else is doing and making had problems with my parents, it was them. I had problems with my brother, it was him. I had problems with my partner. It was her.

Bill Gasiamis 1:21:10
And then what happened was I started to learn that my thinking might have been out of whack, and as a result, all my emotional experiences, the bad ones lessen than the good ones heightened. I got less emotional about stuff, and therefore my outbursts were less ridiculous and and there was no unnecessary ones. And then I started to be able to connect with people a little better and not judge them for their lack.

Chanell Havenga 1:21:42
Yes, yes. I think that is why cognitive behavioral therapy people is is so emphasized, because our thoughts inform our behaviors, right? So you have this stimulus and response and something happens and you react, you respond immediately.

Chanell Havenga 1:22:05
But if you think about intentionally, think about adding a filter, a pause in between, you’re going to have your stimulus and you’re going to change your course of action by just responding, you’re going to just add a brief pause there and a filter through which you can see, okay, this is not going to help me. It’s not going to be productive in any way. Let me choose a different course of action. And I think that is why the focus is so much on the cognitive behavioral therapy, because our thoughts literally shape how we act.

Bill Gasiamis 1:22:52
I love that, it’s a question I’ve been keen to ask for a long time because, because it’s kind of because I just thought I think about things a little bit more deeply these days. I was just trying to get my head around it and understand, at the same time why there is a bit of a neglect of the emotional recovery in stroke, why people seem to omit it.

Bill Gasiamis 1:23:19
And even if you’re going to omit it during physical therapy or even counseling at the moment, at the time, there should be just somebody saying, by the way, once we’ve done dealing with that, let’s also there’s this other area we need to consider. So at some point when that comes up, just know that maybe you haven’t dealt with it yet, or we need to deal with it, or wanted to discuss it.

Chanell Havenga 1:23:45
Exactly. I have always been into fantasy books, Harry Potter and and so forth, and I remember being in rehab and thinking about Alice in Wonderland, and she once said that she couldn’t return to yesterday because she was a different person back then, and it really resonated with me. Had such a big impact, because I try to convince myself that I’m okay and that things will go back to exactly the way they were before.

Chanell Havenga 1:24:33
You know you you kind of lie to yourself because you’re denying what has happened. But the truth is, Bill, there is pre stroke and there is post stroke, and we are never going back to before, so maybe Alice was onto something. After all, you know, I still love fantasy. Books, but I also have more of an affinity for practical documentaries, you know, things like that. So in that sense, my my tastes have changed in terms of literature.

Bill Gasiamis 1:25:21
Are you thinking about practical application of the things that you’re learning, how they are applicable in life, or just as a general concept, practical?

Chanell Havenga 1:25:33
I think both Yes, probably the former more.

Bill Gasiamis 1:25:39
Are you finding yourself like seeking, requiring, having more of a need for that type of information now?

Chanell Havenga 1:25:53
Yes, yes. I think it depends on the mindset that I’m in, because sometimes you you have a need to escape and to just, you know, jump into this fantasy world and just forget about things for a while. But I think, like I always had this amazing dream to go to the Harry Potter world Universal Studios, and it’s been on my bucket list since probably 20.

Chanell Havenga 1:26:31
I’ve been 20, and I’ve saved up to go to exactly that. But after the stroke, things changed for me, and I don’t know, I think, I think I almost felt like, you can do number one, you can do so much more to help stroke survivors with that money, it almost seems foolish to go and, you know, do something silly on the side. And number two, that that didn’t it no longer really interested me.

Chanell Havenga 1:27:15
And I don’t know if you can see my my bookcase behind me, it is full of Harry Potter things. So to say that I was an avid fan would be an understatement, but that literally changed like this. It just wasn’t a priority for me to go anymore. And I, I’m not, I’m not even watching the films anymore. I did try after the stroke, but I got bored, weirdly, weirdly enough I would never say this out loud.

Bill Gasiamis 1:28:02
It sounds like you’ve just changed, you know, from your that’s a new it’s a different season, you know. So, yes, your willingness to be, to escape, to be into something that got you out of the situation that you found yourself in, at work, at home, in life, has lessened. It seems like you have grown accustomed to being a little braver, focusing on what you’re challenged by, learning how to overcome that, how to share and support other people going through that.

Bill Gasiamis 1:28:41
Which means you can’t be disconnected from you can’t have cognitive dissonance from your situation, because things wouldn’t wouldn’t improve for you, and it wouldn’t allow you to help improve other people. So I found myself in a similar way. I spent a lot of time. I did a massive deep dive for almost a decade into all the things that I could do to help people myself overcome stroke, be better, etc, the book happened.

Bill Gasiamis 1:29:11
And then once the book happened, my desire to learn more and more and more has kind of eased, and it only picked up when other people who watch the podcast and listen to the podcast sent a message saying, Can you comment on this intervention? Can you comment on this supplement? Because now I have a reason to comment on something medical or a supplement or an intervention, and I can study it for a little bit, make a video about it seven to 10 minutes.

Bill Gasiamis 1:29:45
It’s done, and then I’m done with needing to know that. And what I found myself doing recently is sitting in front of the TV in one of the many subscription TV movie subscription things, and looking for old movies. I grew up with, and that made me feel in awe of a situation. So firstly, if you want to experience Awe, I highly suggest doing it in nature, going into a temple or an amazing cathedral, and go there and become awe inspired.

Bill Gasiamis 1:30:16
But the things that gave me awe as a child, like, you know, from a 10-year-old, were movies like Raiders of the Lost Ark, you know, Harrison Ford, and those types of movies which were just epic and just the most amazing adventures. And I see those, and I and, and it’s, you know, obviously, very Hollywood, but it’s a different kind of it’s not a shoot ’em up action, just the ridiculous amount of guns flying. It’s a hero’s journey.

Bill Gasiamis 1:30:47
It is a story about somebody who’s going through tough times. They they find themselves with all these obstacles. They overcome them, they find the solution, they implement it, and then they they live happily ever after, so to speak.

Bill Gasiamis 1:31:04
Yes, I find myself going back to those types of movies to try and relate to or associate as that type of character, a character who goes through what they’ve been through, but regardless of what’s coming up, high blood pressure, whatever the next thing is, it’s like, okay, well, we’ll tackle that as well. We’ll work it out, and we’ll, we’ll overcome and we’ll, we’ll rise again, and until we can no longer. And then, and then the job’s done.

Speaker 1 1:31:39
Yes, and to, just to add to what you’ve said, Bill, I think this quote, My favorite quote is, so it’s so fitting to what you’ve just said, and it is my favorite quote is, make like a lighthouse and shine. So yes, I believe that you know, we do adjust to our situation as you’ve adjusted and you find comfort in and that story where this character is evolving, you know, and going through all of these trials and tribulations and coming out on the other side, and he’s okay, and you are able to resonate with that.

Chanell Havenga 1:32:35
And I think it’s important for us to find comfort in in those little things. And haven’t you noticed? It’s, it’s also a bit like the little things in life that we, you know, you read about it. Oh, it’s the little things in life that are actually the big things. But I feel like we as stroke survivors get to live that, you know, because it actually is the little things once, once all of the other things that are basic have been taken away from you, then you realize how massively big those little things actually are.

Bill Gasiamis 1:33:18
Yeah, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast and reaching out. I really appreciate it. And at the end of the in the show notes will be links to all your social media, your book, etc. And I’ll encourage people to go along and have a look at those and reach out to you as well. It’s lovely to meet you. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 1:33:45
It’s been so so great to meet you, Bill. And I’m so thankful for this opportunity. I really am. You are so inspiring. You really, really are and I want to encourage you to please keep doing what you’re doing. I don’t think, I mean, I think you can, but I don’t think you can even fathom the difference this really makes. So thank you for having me.

Bill Gasiamis 1:34:15
My pleasure, I really cannot fathom the difference that it makes, I cannot grapple, I cannot wrap my head around it. It’s I just cannot, and I don’t want to. I don’t need to. All I know is I am on a mission to get to 1000 episodes. Thank you for being one of them.

Chanell Havenga 1:34:36
You are most welcome. Thank you, Bill.

Bill Gasiamis 1:34:40
Before we wrap up another thank you to Banksia Tech for supporting this episode and making stroke rehab tools like the Hanson Rehab Glove by Syrebo accessible for more stroke survivors. If hand movement is part of your recovery, this glove might help visit banksiatech.com.au, or use the links in the show notes and. YouTube description. Now let’s reflect on what we just heard.

Bill Gasiamis 1:35:04
Chanell didn’t just survive a massive stroke. She lived through a complete identity collapse and started over. She turned her journals into a published book. She helped other stroke survivors in South Africa find hope, and she’s reminding us that, and she’s reminding us all that even when your body feels foreign and your mind feels lost, there is a new version of you waiting to be born.

Bill Gasiamis 1:35:29
Healing isn’t just physical, it’s emotional, mental and existential. And while this path isn’t easy, you don’t have to walk it alone. If this podcast has supported you in any way, and you’d like to help me reach 1000 stroke survivor interviews. Please consider supporting the show on Patreon. Your support helps keep this project alive, covering the cost of editing publishing and continuing to amplify real recovery stories like Chanel’s.

Bill Gasiamis 1:35:57
And if you’d like to explore more stories of transformation. Check out my book, The unexpected way that a stroke became the best thing that happened, written by a survivor. For survivors, you’ll find the link in the show notes and the YouTube description, until next time, keep enduring, keep becoming and remember you’re not just recovering, you’re rebuilding.

Intro 1:36:20
Importantly, we present many podcasts designed to give you an insight and understanding into the experiences of other individuals. Opinions and treatment protocols discussed during any podcast are the individual’s own experience, and we do not necessarily share the same opinion, nor do we recommend any treatment protocol discussed all.

Intro 1:36:37
Content on this website and any linked blog podcast or video material controlled this website or content is created and produced for informational purposes only and is largely based on the personal experience of Bill Gasiamis. The content is intended to complement your medical treatment and support healing. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice and should not be relied on as health advice.

Intro 1:36:59
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Intro 1:37:14
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Intro 1:37:39
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